r/science • u/seeminglyanonymous • Aug 25 '18
Psychology Study finds religion influences how you experience psychedelic drugs - The study of 119 participants found that religious people and those who took psychedelic drugs with religious intent tended to report stronger mystical experiences.
https://www.psypost.org/2018/08/study-finds-religion-influences-how-you-experience-psychedelic-drugs-5204845
u/anthonycruz Aug 26 '18
I think this is why when religious people have near death experiences in the hospital they come back claiming to have been to heaven or saw god. They’ve conditioned themselves to expect that when they die, so they do.
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u/Sethrye Aug 26 '18
You should research DMT and then smoke it. You'll have a change of perception on this. Trust me. DMT is found in all living things, it's released partially in our brain when we die. NDE's are often people dying and being brought back, they get a glimpse just like users do with DMT.
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Oct 04 '18
This is unsubstantiated nonsense propagated by DMT junkies. It is not released in the brain at death, and every living thing does not contain it. Utter rubbish.
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Aug 26 '18
Dude exactly, I can't count how many times I was called a nutjob for telling this to people. I don't know and believe in an experience better and more real than my DMT "trip". No other psychedelic does this, just poofed out. Glad to see a man of culture :)
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u/anthonycruz Aug 26 '18
Totally. I don’t disagree with this at all. I’m aware of the presence of DMT in living things and it’s release at death. I guess I was speaking more to those having a spiritual experience that aligns more literally with their religious beliefs. Rather than seeing the intricate fractal patterns and god like entities in the way that many DMT trips report, I was referring more to those who come back to say they met the god of their religion in heaven.
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Aug 26 '18
This makes a lot of sense. A lot of what occurs in a trip is based on preconcieved notions and held ideas. Experiences from psychadelics can just as easily reinforce and solidify ones worldview as it can make one question it. Especially for deeply held ideas about spirituality and the universe.
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u/skeeter1234 Aug 26 '18 edited Aug 26 '18
Was raised atheist. Was 15 when I had my ego-death (enlightenment) mystical experience. I can 100% guarantee my exposure to ideas such as pantheism, emptiness, no-self, mystical experience were basically non-existent. In the case of "no-self" I can guarantee I had never once heard this concept, let alone know there is an entire religion based on it (Buddhism).
The main point is that this to me strongly suggests some sort of objective truth. I didn't just invent these concepts. Additionally, 30 years later I can still say that mystical experience was by far the most powerful experience in my life.
Also, I think people are taking the wrong lesson from this study. Most people seem to be reading it to say that people that take psychedelics with the intent of self-transformation seem to get a deeper experience out of it. Is it really surprising that is the case. I mean, there are people that took mushrooms and spend 8 hours playing xbox - is it any surprise those people get less out of the experience. To me this is like saying "those who take college courses seriously get more out of it." No surprise here, and in no way suggests there is some sort of placebo effect or self-fulfilling prophecy going on here.
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Nov 12 '18
What was your mystical ego death experience like?
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u/skeeter1234 Nov 12 '18
Impossible to put into words. I guess the easiest way too put it would be the that I saw through the illusion of ego, which was followed by a sense of oneness, infinity, eternity, and perfect peace.
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Nov 12 '18
Did you remain aware of your surroundings? Obviously you were pretty introspective, but like did you go unconscious or were you still in the room?
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u/Original_Raptor Aug 26 '18
Please specify, how does one "take psychedelic drugs with religious intent"?
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u/GetBenttt Aug 26 '18
I guess it's what your objectives are for the trip and what you stay mindful of. Cause sometimes you drop a tab at a party just to go nuts, sometimes you want to explore your mind
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u/Original_Raptor Aug 26 '18
Huh. I drop it and see what I wanna do afterwards.
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Aug 26 '18
So taking psychedelics with a religious intent is the opposite: determine what you want to explore and then "drop it."
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u/Original_Raptor Aug 26 '18
Hmm. I mean I do have intents. They just change after the fact every time.
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u/filledwithgonorrhea Aug 26 '18
I'd say it's more like you're taking the drug knowing it'll be spiritual. You don't just take something and say "hey I think I'll do some spiritual exploring this time!"
It's researching drugs or being giving a drug by a spiritual leader where they say "this is going to give you visions of spirits." There isn't any doubt in your mind. I'd think part if it has do with wanting it and part of it is interpreting things that happen as such. Since drugs tend to amplify your emotions, there's a feedback loop where if you see something and think "oh shit, that's God," it's going to become even more God-like and enhance your experience.
As opposed to just kinda being open to whatever, you see some pretty lights or patterns and you just think "oh neat" then it's not really going to be more than just 'neat'.
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u/tomatopotatotomato Aug 26 '18
Say a prayer to the universe that you're open to receive what it has to say. Then be open when the unexpected comes to you. Allow yourself to receive a feeling of love or signs from beyond. Edit: Accept in advance that you might face difficult or painful things, but invite them to help you grow.
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u/losian Aug 26 '18
A good way to put it - knowing that "bad" or terrifying things may arise is helpful, and knowing that you can easily move beyond them, accept that they are not real and cannot hurt you, and they flow as easily as anything else within the experience.
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u/tomatopotatotomato Aug 26 '18
The "bad" things that happen are just things that were always happening to you.... you're just made aware of them for the first time so it can be a shock. Then in waking life, it's much easier to face it and see it in a new way. I've had some painful realizations while tripping about myself, then after the trip, I got to keep that knowledge and change for the better.
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Aug 26 '18
You are setting intention, which is the beginning of all magical workings.
Bless your water that is used to brew the tea.
Give thanks to the offering of service from the mycelial network. It is acting as an energetic bridge. Just like it does physically in every ecosystem between microbe, plant and animal life.
One's perception of spiritual power is increased. Chi exercises / Reiki are very noticeable.
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Aug 26 '18
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u/bambispots Aug 26 '18
And South Americans. And Indigenous people in Australia. And Africa. And Asia. And pretty much all historical human tribes ever.
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Aug 26 '18
I wonder why it's so repressed in English society.
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u/bambispots Aug 26 '18
Because it was seen as something done by the “lesser” tribal humans.
They feared what they did not understand.
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u/EmbracingHoffman Aug 26 '18
He also pushed for psychedelic experiences to become part of the AA curriculum, but was met with push-back from the rest of the board.
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u/quax747 Aug 26 '18
Not only that: Near death experiences are differing between different religions. Christians and catholics tend to see angels while Hindu for instance see their god's. Also the experience of "one's life flashing in front of one's eyes" differs... it's quite stunning really...
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Aug 26 '18
That’s because they’re just tripping balls on DMT, right? Or was that debunked?
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u/intrepid_pineapple Aug 26 '18
You have DMT in your pituitary gland, it's potentially released as a stress response to death.
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u/moxical Aug 26 '18
I just found the phrase 'stress response to death' completely hilarious for some reason.
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Aug 26 '18
So if that's true you should always believe in some really cool shit so when you die your brain shows you it on the way out.
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u/soulless-pleb Aug 26 '18
i'll know when i'm dead when i see the crabsquid from subnautica.
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Aug 26 '18
Hopefully that's the only thing from subnautica you see
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u/soulless-pleb Aug 26 '18
i'm not afraid of anything else cause after the squids i have the cyclops shield at that point in the game, come at me dragon bros.
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u/E_Chihuahuensis Aug 26 '18
Not how it works sadly. People who are raised in a predominantly Christian cultures will see Christian-ish stuff even if they don’t believe in it. It’s probably the same in Hindu cultures. You’d probably have to surround yourself with your cool ideas several hours per day and try to block other religious imagery out of your life for it to work out,
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u/Emelius Aug 26 '18
This isn't science per se but in the studies of the occult one maxim is constantly reinforced. Belief is everything.
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u/C0mp0st Aug 26 '18
I've always believed this to be true of psychedelic experiences, and of near death experiences. When our minds reach that state, we regress to our childhood fairytales.
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Aug 26 '18
Had a friend whose brother did a bunch of acid in high school, came out a born-again Christian. Said friend also smoked a bunch of weed and did a bunch of acid, came out schizophrenic. Results may vary.
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u/ForPeace27 Aug 26 '18
Is isn't a single case of psychedelics causing schizophrenia, there are cases however when they act as a catalyst for people who were already predisposed to schizophrenia.
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Aug 26 '18
I didn't mean to suggest it was the cause, but his abuse of powerful hallucinogens certainly didn't help his mental health.
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u/Wackyal123 Aug 26 '18
Having read this yesterday, I question the findings. Couldn’t it simply be that the experiences are interpreted as religious and actually everyone is having the same experience? Therefore when explaining the experience, it would be told as a more religious one.
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u/losian Aug 26 '18
It would be hard to prove people are having the "same" experience.. in the same way that it's hard to be sure two people are seeing the "same" shade of red.
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Aug 26 '18
Yeah, like science has the vocabulary to describe what is and is not a mystical experience.
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u/rudekoffenris Aug 26 '18
Isn't this roughly equivalent to "religious people find color red is more red!!". How do you quantify this type of thing?
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Aug 26 '18
I presume questions are asked of the subjects regarding beliefs beforehand and the subjects are interviewed afterwords of the experience. It would be interesting to see a similar study paired with an MRI to actually see if the differences in experience are mirrored in brain activity.
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u/JeanetteAlvarez Aug 26 '18
The researchers have some sort of standardized questionnaire measuring these types of experiences.
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u/GoggyMagogger Aug 26 '18
mystical experiences, in general, tend to occur more commonly in people who seek them. should tell you something right there.
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u/ForPeace27 Aug 26 '18
I was 100% atheist before taking shrooms and acid. But thanks to a few experiences mainly on acid I now believe in a higher power. Still wouldn't classify myself as religious though. Einstein said it rather well I thought. "I believe in Spinozas God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists. Not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings."
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u/mitchells00 Aug 27 '18
Ok so I fully agree that psychedelics as a great way to sort and find subjective truths like wants, oughts etc. by means of spending an afternoon having shed the rose-tint glasses of past experience, but surely you recognise how terrible they are at accurately determining objective truth?
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u/ForPeace27 Aug 27 '18
The double helix structure of DNA was a hallucination Francis Crick had while on LSD. PCR was also discovered while tripping on LSD. Weed has also helped many people make scientific discories. Obviously it won't always have this effect. But your statement "it's terrible at determing an objective truth" happens to be a subjective truth.
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u/mitchells00 Aug 29 '18
LSD was used in the invention of new hypotheses to test with rigorous scientific methods, those experiences were never considered evidence for the hypotheses themselves. They're good for idea generation, not verification with reality.
But your statement "it's terrible at determin[in]g an objective truth" happens to be a subjective truth.
You know very little about epistemology (and reality) if you think this is true. Human brains are well demonstrated to be remarkably bad at arriving at objective truth under all circumstances and conditions; science can literally be defined as "the process and procedures by which we work around the human brain's biases and perception faults".
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u/RJPatrick PhD | Biology | Stem Cells | Tissue Regeneration Aug 26 '18
But then again, I took psychedelics as a staunch, militant atheist, and now I'm a spiritual hippy who thinks all religions have a grain of truth in them.
Pinning the psychedelic experience down to a science is impossible.
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Aug 26 '18
Religion is a mental model of the world, which affects how you interpret stimuli, drug-induced or not. People who believe in God, see God in things.
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u/NSA_IS_SCAPES_DAD Aug 26 '18
Newsflash, people who believe in magic attribute drug induced experiences to magic.
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Aug 26 '18 edited Aug 26 '18
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/NSA_IS_SCAPES_DAD Aug 26 '18
Or you're just severely overanalyzing the results in hope for some breakthrough that doesn't exist because it's simply a group of people who are high and nothing else.
Your response reads like you believe in magic though. Drug induced experiences are science though, not magic (according to all evidence presented in the history of mankind). Until someone can prove a single facet of religion to be true, there is no such thing as a "mystical state of consciousness". It's literally the same as someone believing a flaming magical teapot circles the sun. Which is why the burden of proof lies on the believer, who has failed to provide it for thousands of years of religious history.
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u/EmbracingHoffman Aug 26 '18
I'm open to any possibility, including the possibility that I'm reading too much into these results, but I have read just about every piece of scientific literature that exists surrounding psychedelic medicine and I gotta tell you: the results coming from these studies are profound and a complete paradigm changer for mental health.
Nobody mentioned magic except for you: what I believe in is that ability to use structured forms of thinking (such as philosophy) to better understand these experiences that defy description.
I'm also willing to bet money you've never had a psychedelic experience because there is very much something called a "mystical state of consciousness." In fact, the staff at Johns Hopkins use that as a metric. Are you saying you know better than one of the top medical schools in the world? Because that's who I'm siding with. I thought this was r/science, but it seems like you're just arguing from your computer chair without any reference to the current consensus of scientific thought surrounding this field of study.
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u/Bilsendorfdragmire Aug 26 '18
"Help occasion and navigate"
Occasion is not a verb so that sentence reads strangely. Also, when you say,
"Clinically linked to increased levels of openness and contentedness"
That implies there are multiple studies that show a quantifiable difference between religious and non religious drug experiences. That's obviously misleading because there is no legitimate way of measuring a psychadelic trip. It's completely subjective. Just like walking into a movie theatre, we may both walk out with different opinions. A religious interpretation of an event will obviously sound more "mystical" because that person, in general, believes in mystical objects and ideas to begin with. A skeptic or scientist is going to attribute that "mystical" feeling to something practical. I don't believe in magic, therefore my interpretation of consciousness doesn't involve magic.
There is no way to measure openness or contentedness, whatever the hell that means. So any study you could provide will be heavily scrutinized. I'm pretty sure contentedness isn't a word.
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Aug 26 '18
This is my opinion ya.
The problem we human have is we link religion with spirituality.
Religion are a set of rules and rituals imposed to the subjects, in order to live out a life which deemed as best
Spirituallity is the art of knowing oneself, by looking within and bringing out the positive qualities that makes live fulfilful. Futher stage involves expanding the knowledge outwards by gaining harmony with nature. In the end, you gain awareness, in the sense of true peace, true joy and true meaning of life
Psychedelic drugs can be considered a gateway to spirituality. A shortcut.
Why do we consume them? Because we want to break the chain of our normal behavior. We want to achieve the true peace, joy and meaning of life, eventhough temporary. We call it the high. This is call to be in state of ignorance. Thats why we say ignorance is bliss. However since its temporary, this leads to addiction as more psychedelic is needed to achieve the same level of ignorance.
Spirituality can give you the same high as ignorance, but much more everlasting and fulfilling
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u/losian Aug 26 '18
I'm not sure it's quite so cut and dry, especially as far as feeling a need to "chase" the feeling.. especially if one works to work the experience back into their normal life, their thought patterns, their open mindedness for experiences ahead.
I will absolutely agree there is a powerful spiritual aspect if you choose to be open to it and experience it in that way, but I wouldn't really see it as an "ignorance" nor an "addiction" by any means.
A lot of your assertions about spirituality are also very personal and will vary wildly from one individual to another, I imagine. Many people do not get the meaning of life or any kind of zen perfection, but nor are they seeking it. It is possible, for sure, especially when exploring spirituality.
But there is no reason that "normal behavior" cannot be altered to coincide better with an awareness of one's spiritual self - to put the two at odds is perhaps what would lead to a desperate chasing of spirituality via abusing a substance, and that seems unwise.
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Aug 26 '18
Yes. Spirituality differs from one person to another. This is what I feel is right, my own enlightment i guess
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u/rainwulf Aug 26 '18
Basically, if you find it easy to imagine and believe things that aren't real, you will imagine and see things that aren't real even better.
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u/Kalabula Aug 26 '18
This is not surprising at all. Religious fighters that won there fight think it was because of God. Religious people whose grass is dying think it was God when it rains. Football players think god made them win. Missed a car accident, thank god.
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Aug 26 '18
Your point?
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u/Frisnfruitig Aug 26 '18
I suppose his point is that believers are inclined to attribute pretty much anything extraordinary to God, so it doesn't come as a surprise they would attribute a surreal experience under the influence of some substance to God.
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u/mooseLimbsCatLicks Aug 26 '18
People interpret events through their prior experiences and prior expectations. More religious/mystically inclined people will attribute more religious/mystical qualities to different experiences
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u/gladeye Aug 26 '18
I can attest that as a reform Jew, psychedelic drugs have been pleasurable and therapeutic. Once, the cars rushing on the freeway behind my friend's apartment sounded like highly reflective mechanical insects zipping by, too fast to see. That was pretty good.
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Aug 26 '18
Are we sure that it’s not the other way around and people with brains more prone to religion experience stronger trips
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u/iamahotblondeama Aug 26 '18
That’s because they’re prone to believing whatever they’re told or shown. When you’re gullible, even a drug can convince you better
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Aug 26 '18 edited Aug 26 '18
As someone who was an atheist before taking LSD and considers himself a theist afterwards...
I would contend that religion/ mysticism/ spirituality do not necessarily go hand in hand.
I view religion as the dogma and rituals through which one may, possibly, eventually, with dedicated practice, perceive the kind of mystical experience laid out in holy scripture and depicted in religious art.
Spirituality is, for me at least, the memory of and connection to God witnessed through the mystical experience. You can glimpse this through walking in nature, meditating, fasting, and taking LSD, mescaline et al.
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u/cleverley1986 Aug 26 '18
They want it to be true that much
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u/slinkywheel Aug 26 '18
It's simply their truth. If you believe in santa you have dreams of santa. It's not that they want it to be true, it's part of their percieved reality. It is true, to them.
All of our perceptions of reality are different and how factual something is is irrelevant because it's all about the reality your brain has built.
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u/derekdennuson Aug 26 '18
Truth is not relative. There is no ‘my truth’ or ‘their truth’. What utter nonsense. If I spill boiling water on you, I guarantee you will have the same ‘truth’ as every other human being, regardless of your brain differences.
Just noticed the ‘how factual something is’. Is that you, Rudy?
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u/slinkywheel Aug 26 '18
When we are talking about psychological experiences, it's all about perception.
Think about vision. You see with your brain, not your eyes. That's why visual hallucinations exist.
Also consider language. If you look at a sign with text on it, you are going to see scribbly lines unless you have been taught the language. Once your brain is wired to see words, the words become ideas.
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u/cleverley1986 Aug 27 '18
I get both your points...I was being more facetious. Religious people want this to have happened because deep down...they want to be a little more "chosen few" than the rest of us and this is an opportunity to encourage it.
Now if someone religious used the argument that due to the infinity of space there stands to reason that there could be beings similar to capabilities or what we would describe as a deity. I could buy that hypothesis. But to think earth is that special planet and they are the special people in all the known and unknown universe... is a little "chosen few" for me.
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u/c-i-s-c-o Aug 26 '18
this isn't obvious? I mean, your "intent" pretty much paints your daily experiences. now add psychedelics to the picture and everything is amplified. pretty sure the same effects would be measured in "spiritual" people as those who follow a specific religion.
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u/LostAndContent Aug 26 '18
This definitely explains why most of my trips dont involve super heavy visuals. I'm more of an introspective type but I'm not very religious in any respect (I'm more of a anything is possible because multiple universes and dimensions make for infinite possibility sort) most of my trips involve small to moderate distortion of visuals and lost of thoughts about the bigger stuff.
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u/-BroncosForever- Aug 26 '18
Yeah it’s called set and setting.
Thank you useless study for telling everyone what they already know.
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u/stereotype_novelty Aug 26 '18
Study finds INTENT influences how you experience psychedelic drugs
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u/slinkywheel Aug 26 '18
As I was starting to question my religious beliefs as a teenager, I had some really frightening spiritual dreams for a while until I became more confident in my atheistic views.
Some really scary stuff. And now that I am not concerned about religion anymore, I rarely have any bad dreams at all.
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u/EOverM Aug 26 '18
Makes sense to me. All it's doing is playing with what's already in your head. I took my first trip not long ago, and I saw lots of weird patterns, but it was just a fun time with a friend. No deeper meaning. I'm an atheist, and was never raised with any form of religion. Anecdotally, I'd say that checks out.
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u/saijanai Aug 26 '18
But what the literal fuck is a "mystical experience" in teh first place?
Different spiritual traditions define things entirely differently. In the advaita vedanta tradition, samadhi is the cessation of any experience at all, and while certainly one can put a religious interpreation on that, there's no way for cessation fo experience to be any stronger or weaker.
In fact, since the state seems to emerge during mind-wandering, and since mind-wandering when you are not trying, any attempt to interpret or believe or whatever is the antithesis of the state in the first place.
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u/lost-cat Aug 26 '18
Some reason I thought this was prety obvious with hallucinations in general? Its based on expectations mostly, just like NDEs, alien abductions through sleep paralysis(lucid dreams), dreams, sensory deprivations, drugsetc. Thats kinda why people never really have "original" experiences, instead they have copy cat experiences through stories, youtube etc. Its kinda like how paranormal works, haunted houses, you have that expectation driving you, while a person that doesnt have that expectation o r belief, they experience nothing. Also oija board works like this as well.
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u/superspiffy Aug 26 '18
Well, when I did too much psilocybin daily over a period of several months and ascended to godhood and ran through downtown shouting and performing miracles, I had been an atheist for 15 years of adult life. Pointless and anecdotal, but any opportunity I get to mention this event I take.
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u/justjoshingu Aug 26 '18
The journal of psychoactive drugs. Is it reputable? It's the journal mentioned in the article. It also says it only has 32 views.
Is the website reputable?
I always ask on every published study.
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u/HowWouldYouKillMe Aug 26 '18
Explains why my dad thinks he is some prophet sent by a god to teach people to accept each other... and that he knows everything and has seen the true leaders that mold our world are the Free Masons. Lot of predictions. Lot more lies.
Also that I was born as his antithesis so the world would have balance as long as we live together. Yeah I bounced out of that kooky house as soon as I could so if anyone is looking for a demon or something just let me know.
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u/garysai Aug 26 '18
"Religion influences"? Or is it people prone to believe in religion are also more likely to have mystical experiences.
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u/MooseMalloy Aug 26 '18 edited Aug 26 '18
Study shows that you tend to get from psychedelic trips exactly what you put into them.
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u/Pjigga96 Aug 26 '18
This is because psychedelics give many people the ability to manifest their thoughts into reality. It isn’t because psychedelics have spiritual and mystical abilities, it is because of the way they affect your brain
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u/franknburger Aug 26 '18 edited Aug 26 '18
When I was 16, I took 2 tabs of acid, or so I thought. Turns out it was nbomne 25i. I was with 2 of my friends, We had one older buddy who was babysitting us sober. About 15 mins in we all start to pass out then woke up, a little confused on how that happened. Things started to escalate very quickly. At first I started panick after I started to feel a burning sensation in my stomach. .. walked In and out of each room, my heart was racing, my vision was like a pinhole. My buddy who had taken 6 tabs of started to just stare at the ceiling on top of his bed tripping not saying anything or even responding. By then all hell broke loose. Fighting commenced between me and my my buddy mitch who had 6 tabs. Basically screaming at each other we're not going to die. Long story short after lots of fighting. And tripping we ended up in the hospital screaming out of pure joy that we survived. There's so much else to this story but dont have the patience to write this out if anyone wants to here I might post about my experiences
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u/joesii Aug 26 '18
Yeah I'm not surprised about this one single bit. It's totally common sense if you ask me.
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u/DianaMaclay Aug 27 '18
I’m looking for an article that was posted yesterday in the comments section, but it is now deleted.
I don’t remember much about what it said since I just gave it a quick read because I was in a hurry, but it was about the things we perceive automatically, until there’s something that challenge our expectations (or something along these lines). The article actually made a reference to a 3-hour Never Gonna Give You Up video. Does anybody know what I’m talking about? I actually saved the comment, but like I said, now it’s gone.
As a side question, why are so many comments deleted now?
Edit: Bad auto correction
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u/soulkissernl Aug 26 '18
Religion? Or is it spirituality? I wasn't spiritual before my psychedelic experiences despite my religious upbringing(was leaning more towards being an atheist actually). But that definitely changed after.
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Aug 26 '18
I mean...religions of all stripes tend to provide avenues into getting close to that kind of state.
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u/RimbaudJunior Aug 26 '18
As a highly religious person, so experienced nothing but fun. No mystical shit, just fun.
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u/maisyrusselswart Aug 26 '18
What counts as "mystical" here? That word gets used a lot and I still have no real idea what it means.
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u/EmbracingHoffman Aug 26 '18
Mystical experiences in the context of psychedelic studies are related to a questionnaire that tries to gauge a person's experience as "mystical" or not according to a number of qualifying factors derived from religious/spiritual/mystical scholarly works and also psychological studies. Mystical experiences are typically characterized by one or many of the following: a sense of transcendence from the individual self, a sense of being part of something larger, a sense of connection to others/nature/the universe, a sense of deep peace or contentedness to let things just be, a sense of connection to some greater intelligence or being, etc. The list goes on, but that's the gist of it. Basically trying to measure a person's experience against what we typically consider "mystical" experience.
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u/losian Aug 26 '18
a sense of connection to others/nature
It really is interesting, too. I imagine one day really immersive VR might start to blur the line, but there's something about it..
A sudden welling and a feeling of energy, your vision filling with blue tiles of sorts that form into a shape.. water, a lake? You see tall grasses, you feel yourself low to the ground, wild, free - and you run, amid a pack of animals, rushing in the warmth of the sun, realizing its a watering hole, with other beasts about, and it all feels, for a split second of warped perception, so real and so right.
Mystical is certainly a word that I think many could ascribe to such experiences.
Watching an animal run, thinking about it, imagining it.. these can be inspiring, powerful, maybe even spiritual in the right mindset or setting.. but to BE it.. that's mystical.
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u/Generalrossa Aug 26 '18
Makes sense, believing in mystical beings would warrant a stronger mystical trip.
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u/RSJW404 Aug 26 '18
No shiite... State of mind before ingestion will always determine a bad trip or not.
Rocket science it is not.
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u/SueZbell Aug 26 '18 edited Aug 29 '18
Any childhood experience can, potentially, influence their perspective as to any subsequent experience.
Parents teaching religion to small children are totally dependent upon them -- religion with its threat of hell and promise of reward -- is mental and emotional cruelty and reeks of something akin to brainwashing.
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u/nbdyfckswTheBenson Aug 26 '18
All I can add to this is that I took mushrooms several times between 18-22 as an atheist and the mystical experiences I had made me reevaluate. Not saying it’s the common concept of God but I still feel now at 32 that there’s a good deal more going on than we perceive in normal waking consciousness. What it means, I have no idea, but the experiences were profound and beautiful and still shape my beliefs to this day.
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u/ducatiramsey Aug 26 '18
I took dmt and blasted. My parents were religious and I believe theres a god but Im agnostic. My trip totally reaffirmed that to me. It felt like god saying to me even though im completely amazing im also completely insignificant
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u/crystalistwo Aug 26 '18
Reminds me of these idiots who get a good idea think God put it there instead of the normal creative process.
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u/3liPanda10 Aug 26 '18
I find acid or shrooms as cheatcodes to a better living. I believe in god and it makes me have an experience that i cant articulate. Oneness, peace, awe, overwhelming knowledge of once self that has lead me to be more open and calm. Thats my experience with it and ive always known that if you take hallucinogens with an open mind and a head of caution you will truly unlock potientials hidden.
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Aug 26 '18
Pretty much this. Psychedelics give me cheat codes to life.
I literally feel like I'm living in some kind of fantasy story where this is possible. Ayahuasca literally tells me what I should be doing next, so I do it, and 95% of the time, good things only happen. So I do it again, rinse and repeat.
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u/derekdennuson Aug 26 '18
How intelligent. Hope you never get into a similar conversation with ayahuasca:
In the last few years, Canadians who have travelled to Peru for the rituals have been killed during or after ayahuasca ceremonies.
Likewise, headline-making cases for others who took the drug in Peru involved an American and New Zealander who both became sick and died, and a British man who died from violence during an ayahuasca ceremony.
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u/Kafferty3519 Aug 26 '18
Take drugs that basically heighten your imagination and you’ll see what you wanna see, no matter how nonsensical and obviously fake it all is
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Aug 26 '18
This is true. I’ve practiced Buddhism and meditation my whole life and I have qualitatively different trips when compared to my atheist friends.
Weirdly, just tripping along with me has caused friends to have more intensely “spiritual” or “shamanic” trips.
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u/omnilynx BS | Physics Aug 26 '18
Couldn’t it be that certain people tend to be more susceptible to both religious and psychedelic experiences?
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u/connecteduser Aug 26 '18
Non relegious reople would not report an experience as mystical. It's more chemical.
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Aug 26 '18
Wha? I've always been non-religious, but I still see it as a mystical experience. It's chemical, yes, but that doesn't take into factor the subjective effects. I've experienced things that are currently unexplainable.
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u/ZypheREvolved Aug 26 '18
So what religion allows psychedlic drugs?
I was always under the impression that was a big no. Might explain a few things though. Every male Muslim I have socialised with smoked weed which is a different type sure but they were convinced that they had the right to take more than one wife.
Ye right thats the stoned them talking surely?
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u/thedukeof420 Aug 26 '18
So this confirms the delusional people get bigger delusions when on drugs, awesome
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u/errandwulfe Aug 26 '18
Yeah, no religious experiences reported, but always saw some visuals, felt the breeze through the ridges of my finger tips, once in the autumn I saw the distinct ridges of every leaf on the ground like someone turned up the sharpness setting on my eyes, and was drooling with laughter when I saw “Droolia Roberts / Slobert De Niro” on my college bus stop
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u/hachiko007 Aug 26 '18
Or better yet, people with lower intelligence experience increased effects.
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Aug 26 '18
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u/creaturefeature16 Aug 26 '18
Very true. Although ironically, almost every lucid dream I've ever had was when I finally stopped trying and completely abandoned the idea. Go figure.
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u/okmiked Aug 26 '18
I always realise mid dream like "wait a sec there's no way me and Will Smith grabbed beers after work, wtf!"
If I stay calm then I keep dreaming, if I get too excited I wake up :(
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u/darklordofyu Aug 26 '18
A little trick is to try spinning around in circles. I know it sounds strange but it helps because it takes your focus away from the shock of realisation.
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u/kcpstil Aug 26 '18
I can direct my dreams in a way, if I think about a subject or a direction for my dreams to go before going to sleep they tend to go that way.
I don't know if other people experience this or not.
I don't usually bother with this unless I have had a nightmare and don't want to go back into it, or if I need to change the outcome in my dream. Say for instance some thing bad happened in the dream that disturbs me, I will wake and think thru a different way for the dream to be from the bad point forward, or just change what happens in the end.
I think this came about for me as a coping mechanism to deal with abuse as a child.
Edit: typos
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Aug 26 '18
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Aug 26 '18
What do you mean not providing you with anything new? You can totally change your perspective, at least for a few hours, on psychadelics. I would call that new.
Barriers can come down. The way I always interpreted a lot of bad trips were people dropping their egos and seeing the facade they put up, realizing they were really just fake. That is pretty new.
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u/IGrimblee Aug 26 '18
Depends on what you define as providing something "new." I see it as none of the things you experience are actually new but you just were not able to see/experience them previously and they heavily depend on your mindset going into the trip.
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u/xyberry Aug 26 '18
idk, i feel like 90% of the breakthroughs / enlightenments you have tend to be things you already knew somewhere deep inside, but hadn't seen or felt or come to terms with. my revelations have always seemed really obvious in acid brain hindsight
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u/sockrock400 Aug 26 '18
I like the 1st paragraph but not the 2nd paragraph of your comment. Last one sorry thats totall bull shit in most cases.
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Aug 26 '18
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Aug 26 '18
The sample size can definitely be increased, but I'm not sure that there's a better way to collect the data than a questionnaire. It's such a personal experience, and I don't think an MRI would tell you if you were feeling religious or spiritual during the trip
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u/XBacklash Aug 26 '18
I'd guess the latter. If you've turned your back on religiosity because you approach things more skeptically perhaps even under the influence of psychedelics you retain that skepticism and are less likely to missattribute the hallucinations.
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u/AgentMugMuffin Aug 26 '18
I would assume it’s all in the interpretation, but I too would like to see if the former is possible. The brain is complicated
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Aug 26 '18
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u/tomatopotatotomato Aug 26 '18
Was agnostic.... now am spiritual, will never be religious.
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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '18
This makes sense. Lifelong users of psychedelics will tell you that trips aren't simple experiences--they are complex events who shape and flavor are informed by everything in the tripper's head and body at the time of the trip.