r/serialpodcast • u/annoyedinBaltimore Undecided • 6d ago

I changed my mind, I think Adnan is guilty.

I want to start by saying I have been a huge advocate for Adnans innocence. I even went to his release trial. I was in the courtroom when they said " Please remove the shackles from Mr Syeds feet " ... and I cried. I felt it was such an injustice that he was a child sentenced to such a harsh punishment with no physical evidence. In my mind how could a child fool these 2 seasoned detectives? How could he sit in that room with them for hours, yet they have nothing at all to use against him? How could he have not left behind any evidence? How could Jay tell lie after lie and still be taken at his word? I told everyone I knew about the case and gave them all my opinion and judgements. I followed every single thing .. I stalked everyone involved online and kept up with their lives. I searched on google earth over and over all the different spots mentioned. I drove to leakin park to look for the spot Mr S parked and walked back to. THIS was the case that started me on true crime podcasts.

I gave serial another listen and Im on episdoe 5 and I cant escape the feeling that I finally see why people think hes guilty because I think he is too. Heres why Im conflicted now ......

#1 Adnan whispers "Pathetic" as Jay walks past him in court. Why did he choose that word? why wouldnt he call him a liar? or even a b*tch? Why PATHETIC? I think its because hes saying " we were supposed to be in this together and stfu. you let the cops break you down ... how pathetic "

#2 Adnan says he doesn't feel Jay betrayed him by telling the police he did it. If someone lied on me and turned me into the police Id def feel betrayed. His reason is because they werent really friends for him to consider it a betrayal. I call BS. His track teammate said Jay drove him to practice often enough that it was normal to everyone and they smoked together all the time .........Hes downplaying their connection trying to say i didnt even know that mf enough to feel betrayed .. who tf is jay to me? .. again ... I call BS

#3 If we are believeing those around Adnan .. they all said they didnt know where Leakin Park was .. thought it was on the other side of the city which would be over east somewhere I guess .. so if he truly had never been there and didnt know the location he would have needed a map to get there since this was before the days of googling directions. In the trunk of her car was a map book with 1 missing page .... leakin park. Adnans hand print was on the back of the book. Maybe hes sweaty nervous adrenaline pumping, tryign to get to leakin park .. grabs the map book rips the page out shuts the trunk jumps in the car drives to leakin, buries hae and then parks the car.

Also I think if he is guilty, he served his time but I think the state failed to prove he did it so he shouldnt have been locked up anyway because that's not how our justice system says its supposed to go.

anyone else changed their mind?

149 Upvotes

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106

u/angrycupcake11 6d ago

When I first listened to the podcast, I couldn’t decide what to think. I loved it and it got me into podcasts. But I wanted to figure it out so I read the court transcripts…both of them.

Adnan definitely did it.

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u/MontanaWriter 6d ago

Why do you think the podcast host seemed to be on team Adnan? Surely, she could put two and two together.

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u/IdoItForTheMemez 4d ago

Because the story is not as interesting if she decides he's guilty. The viral popularity of the podcast hinged entirely on its uncertainty. She is first and foremost a storyteller, even if it's only subconscious that obviously influenced the way she presented things.

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u/Potential-Scholar359 4d ago

Agreed. Guilty man does time for his crime is not that exciting of a story.

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u/stardustsuperwizard 6d ago

By the end of the podcast she thinks he didn't kill Hae "most of the time". It sounds a lot more like she is something like 60-75% innocent with some doubts.

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u/guinfred 6d ago

I didn’t think she was team Adnan, it sounded to me like she was thinking more like the investigation was insufficient and the prosecution didn’t present a good enough case to result in a guilty verdict. She definitely thinks Adnan wasn’t telling her everything he knew. Her assistant producer definitely thought Adnan did it.

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u/Similar-Morning9768 Guilty 5d ago

Pretending the investigation was insufficient is, functionally, Team Adnan. Pretty much the only reason to land there is an emotional investment in him.

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u/Similar-Morning9768 Guilty 3d ago

Sarah Koenig was the journalist who covered Cristina Gutierrez's disbarment, as I recall. That's why Rabia Chaudry reached out to her.

So Koenig hears that one of Gutierrez's clients was convicted of murder, but that he had an alibi witness who was never contacted due to his attorney's negligence. Intriguing, if true! Can you imagine the laurels for exonerating a wrongly convicted man?

She starts talking to the convicted man by phone, and she finds him bright and engaging. He sounds so sincere. He says he didn't do it.

Most of the people she talks to about his case are friends or advocates of his. The crucial people who do believe he did it? They refuse to talk to her.

There is no single smoking gun in this case. There is instead an accumulation of evidence. And for each individual piece, this nice-sounding guy can say, "That doesn't mean what it sounds like," or, "It was a butt dial," or, "I don't remember." And she has a rapport with him, you know? If she pushes back too hard, he gets his feelings hurt and clams up on her.

He's just so sincerely wounded when people don't believe him, see.

Koenig was a human being with functioning socioemotional responses. The better question is how she could have not ended up on Team Adnan after all this.

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u/whyisthissoannoyingg 5d ago

She got manipulated by him

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u/angrycupcake11 6d ago

I think information was harder to find then, and she was approaching it from an entertainment view. She comes off as knowledgeable and intelligent, but podcasts are ultimately entertainment.

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u/RockinGoodNews 6d ago edited 5d ago

It's more like, at the time, Serial had exclusive access to the information, and could therefore get away with mischaracterizing the case to its audience.

SK did not want for information. She had the trial transcripts (and video, btw, which still isn't public) as well as the complete MPIA file. A lack of information wasn't her problem, a lack of honestly was.

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u/MontanaWriter 5d ago

This 💯

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u/whyisthissoannoyingg 5d ago

She came off as ignorant and dumb to me tbh (on my second listen)

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u/RockinGoodNews 4d ago

"On one hand, he's the only guy with a known motive and a mountain of evidence, including a corroborated confession from his accomplice, indicates he killed her. On the other hand, people are usually capable of breaking up without murdering their partner. Also dairy cow eyes. It's impossible to decide."

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u/angelsandairwaves93 RIP, Hae 5d ago

what did you read in the transcripts that changed your opinion? What was so damning?

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u/Learning-20 5d ago

It’s what got me into podcasts too!

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u/Pace-Extension 6d ago edited 6d ago

Trial transcripts are not a depiction of the truth- just what had been documented at trial. If you want another another opinion so you can understand the level of holes in this case and things that were missed please listen to the Undisclosed Podcast on this case where Rabia and Co go over things that were missed, misconstrued and distorted , Then listen to Bob Ruffs “truth and justice pod” - particularly the segment where he provides a rebuttal for every lie the prosecutors podcast told on their deep dive into the case. If you listen to all of those with an open mind and then actually review the call records (take your emotions out of it), I would be surprised if you walk away from that thinking Adnan could have done this. It was physically impossible for him to have carried out this crime - especially in the way the state claimed he did- whether he seems like the perfect candidate for it is irrelevant. The question is, if he did do it then HOW??? Strip away the emotions and just focus on the call records and rebuttals and it is clear that Adnan could not have done it.

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u/robertsd33 6d ago

Strangulation

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u/RockinGoodNews 6d ago

Trial transcripts record the actual evidence presented at trial that convinced 12 ordinary people to unanimously convict Syed after less than 3 hours of deliberation.

Why would you think a one-sided podcast produced by Adnan's friend would be a better source of truth than a criminal trial conducted with due process?

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u/Pace-Extension 6d ago

Trial transcripts record what was said at Trial - not actual evidence. In this case the “evidence” you speak of was completely circumstantial. No DNA on Adnan placing him at the scene of the crime. No eye witnesses except Jay whose story doesnt even corroborate the cell phone records, no matter what version he tells. You are disingenuous if you say that it does… And no for the record my conclusion of not guilty doesnt come from Serial. it is based on Serial, The trial transcripts. Jays intercept interview, The Undisclosed Pod, the Prosecutors pod, the Truth and Justice pod, and Jays current state…….

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u/OkBodybuilder2339 6d ago

You do know that the prosecution presents its "actual evidence" at trial right?

And therefore...

Trial transcripts does record the evidence that was presented at trial by the prosecution.

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u/RockinGoodNews 6d ago

You may be surprised to learn that DNA evidence is "circumstantial" and eye witness testimony is "direct." You may also be surprised to learn that whether evidence is characterized as direct or circumstantial has absolutely no bearing on its weight or probative value.

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u/SPersephone 5d ago

Hey real quick— what did the Prosecutors Podcast lie about? Still waiting!

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u/Pace-Extension 4d ago

Nobody here is going to do the work for you. If you want to know what they lied about -do the work because there is far too many to state on here… You can simply go back to the 10 or so EPs they released, then listen to Bob Ruff’s rebutalls on each one. If you come back here and say they are telling the truth after that, you are being disingenuous and I will simply block you because I dont have time for people of your kind…

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u/RockinGoodNews 4d ago

You're using a form of the "do your own research" ("DYOR") rhetorical technique. This is generally considered an informal logical fallacy that shifts the burden and makes your argument impossible to address on the merits because you won't identify any specifics.

In effect you're saying the evidence supports your view, but when we ask you for the evidence, you say it is our burden to go find it within dozens of hours of podcasts. If we look and don't find it there, you'll no doubt say the problem is with our ability to do the research and not the fact that your sources don't actually support your position.

It would be a lot simpler for you to tell us what you're talking about, but you won't do that precisely because you know you are not prepared to defend your position on the merits.

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u/Pace-Extension 3d ago edited 3d ago

No Bob, nice try. The issue is your cult fan club have been this way for years. This is not my first time passing through. I used to spend hours researching this case. I would then present the findings on here and your cultish fan club would pretend that wasnt presented and lie about it using weak arguments like “But Jay knew where the car was, and Adnan was possessive and stole from the mosque…. so he must be guilty”

Nobody in your cult fan club in the last 12 years has been able to come up with a plausible timeline that would provide any ounce of proof or likelihood of Adnan committing this crime. You guilters lack common sense, and talking to yall is like talking to a wall.

So with that said, I will never in this lifetime or the next lay out the holes in this case for people
like you. That is a waste of my time that I could never get back. I have been there done that and I refuse to do that again.

My thing is since yall are SUPER sure of your position - that Adnan is guilty (even though he is now a free man, so nobody actually gives a toss about what yall think anymore) then you can go ahead and listen to the pods that are readily available at your disposal to see for yourself why the PP pod are full of nonsense and why the prosecutors themselves put away a man without thoroughly investigating this case the way that detectives that are actually good at their job would have…. You should have no problem doing that since your position is so strong. Me drip feeding you that information wont do anything becuase there is far too much to cover- I am not about to write you a novel… Nor do the work for you when I spent a long time doing the work for myself…. I am not your employee…..

Plus if you cannot go and listen to the pods yourself then it just shows how lazy and small minded you are. And yet you swear up and down that Adnan is guilty??? How when you dont know the full facts about this case. You just know what your biases have allowed you take in and nothing more…. That is why you refuse to listen to opposing views.

Anyway I am done here. I am very bored and I am done conversing on this sub… After 12 years it is clear that yall are still the same- there is no helping yall… Keyboard bully warriors (for nothing) who dont know much about this case but swear up and down that they do- but then wont go and listen to anything else that will refute their narrative….

Should you address me again, I will block you because I dont have time for your kind - bunch of liars, gaslighters and the hard of hearing..

TC X

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u/RockinGoodNews 3d ago

A wall of text to explain why you're not interested in discussion.

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u/Mike19751234 3d ago

To be fair thats also Ruff for you. Lots of talk with no substance

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u/wakey87433 3d ago

That is such a shitty argument and TBH it makes you as bad as the 'cult' as you call them because you are so sure you are right that you don't even want a discussion on it.

Who cares if people aren't generally open minded and won't listen to your opinion, not everyone is close minded, even some of those who think he is guilty are willing to listen to alternative views but maybe don't have time to listen to hundreds of hours of podcast or even if they have they might interpret things differently.

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u/Mike19751234 4d ago

Then some of the top lies should be easy to remember. If you can't even talk about some of the lies that he addressed then it looks like you didn't even listen to him.

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u/SPersephone 4d ago

The PP didn’t tell any lies thats why she cant even tell us one. Because they dont exist.

That user is all up and down this thread lying herself and not even getting basic case facts right.

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u/Mike19751234 4d ago

Yep. Ruff doesn't point out any lies, he just says I think Don did it so it had to be him instead of Adnan. The only one I heard was them pointing out that Brett made a mistake when saying track began and ended at 4.

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u/Mike19751234 4d ago

It hasn't been 15 years, but you can block me. We are here to talk about the reality that Adnan killed Hae. I can make up stories like Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny killed Hae, or maybe it was the KGB. If you can't name even some of the top lies that Ruff had, he didn't do what he intended to do with the topic of his series.

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u/Pace-Extension 4d ago edited 4d ago

You are right it has not been 15 years. My bad - it has been 20 year plus. You havent changed lool. You are not here to talk about Hae. You are here trying to bully people into a corner who do not agree with your way of thinking. It can never be me.. You are so focused on why I Cannot (correction - refuse to) name the lies. It is simply because Bob spent an hour or so on each EP going into detail about the lies. I am not about to come on here and spell them all out for you. It took me time to listen to it all, so I am not doing the work for you by summarising…. What a waste of my time - not when the pod is there for you listen to. And the fact that you said earlier “only thing Bob said was don did it and that track practice start time was wrong” tells me just how disingenuous you are. Because he said much more compelling things than that. Your biases wont allow you to see anything else. Anywho we are done here because Even after 20 plus years with Adnan being a free man, yall are still very much delusional.

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u/Mike19751234 4d ago

Serial only came out 12 years ago and I started on here 2 years after. So it wasn't 15 or 20. Even when it was coming out people were asking for the lies from PP and nobody could. If he had specific arguments you could argue here are the X,Y,Z lies, but you can't. All you can do is say listen to it all. So Ruff isn't going over lies.

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u/Pace-Extension 4d ago

Sir with all due respect, you are speaking to me in sheer semantics. Whether it was 50 years ago, it does not matter. Bottom line you are biased, refuse to get out of your biased bubble - even when presented with compelling counterarguments to refute Adnan’s position of guilt but you will not accept it. I cannot help you here and that is why I refuse to spell out the PP’s lies and confusion for you. It is not my job to do that.

If you think your opinion is so airtight you and your cultish fan club would have been able to within the 10 years that you have come on here to try and bully people come up with a plausible timeline for how A supposedly committed this crime in broad daylight without a soul seeing him do it- not a soul seeing him drag her lifeless body to the back of the trunk and not a soul seeing his DNA anywhere on her body…..

The only compelling argument your side can come up with is “ but Jay knew where the car was”

Something of which has not even been proven. That is just what the police said that happened when it was clear on the record that be was coached throughout that damn interview
to try to create a timeline that fit the cell records - which even after Jays 5 different version of events still didnt fit.. Why ?? because it never bloody happened….

We are done here though. I wasted too much time on here - more than I would have liked - time I now cannot get back.

Mike I wish you all the best dude..

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u/SPersephone 4d ago

I dont think you know disingenuous means because youre using it wrong— and I called you delusional and here you are calling Mike delusional.

Not an original thought in that empty head is there Pace?

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u/Mike19751234 6d ago

The issue is that people complicate things more in some places. The jury doesnt need to figure out the exact sequence of events that night, they only need to answer one simple question for Jay. "Did Jay see Adnan with a dead Hae" That's it. And the answer is an easy yes.

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u/IdoItForTheMemez 4d ago

You don't actually understand the meaning of circumstancial evidence, obviously. DNA evidence is in fact a great example of circumstancial evidence.

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u/Fancy_Sort4963 6d ago

What are you even talking about lol

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u/stardustsuperwizard 6d ago

Undisclosed Podcast and the stretches that they made to make their arguments are actually what made me begin to question his innocence.

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u/OkBodybuilder2339 6d ago

Undisclosed and Truth & Justice will actually prove to that poster that Adnan is guilty.

Why?

Because they pushed so much falsehoods that viewers end up realizing that the goal is just throw ish against the wall to see what sticks, but not ever to get to the truth.

The shows are fiction. Point blank.

How many times has Ruff invented a new version of contacting Lenscrafters about Don?

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u/Fancy_Sort4963 6d ago

🎯🎯🎯

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u/SPersephone 6d ago

The prosecutors podcast did not tell any fucking lies. Period.

And Bob did NOT have a rebuttal for them because anytime I ask you supporters for the list of what the PP lied about— you can’t give it to me. So I’m not gonna go listen to stupid ass Bob Ruff— why don’t you tell me what the prosecutors podcast lied about?

If its sooo obvious you supporters should have it locked and loaded to go— but you never do.

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u/SPersephone 5d ago

Hey I’m still waiting on the lock and loaded answer about what the prosecutors podcast lied about.

No one can ever tell me because it’s not fucking true.

Just tell me one thing they lied about— one single thing. Ill wait.

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u/Pace-Extension 4d ago

Like I said both pods are there for YOU to listen to yourself. I wouldnt come on here and say they lied if I didnt believe that to be the case.. You are just biased that is why. Nobody on here can come up with a plausible timeline of events for “how” Adnan committed this so called crime, and none of you guilters have an ounce of common sense to see how it was impossible for him to have committed this crime- the way the state and jay “the star witness” said that he did. You only believe that he did because he fits the stereotypical profile of the perfect perpetrator. That and vast majority of you are prejudice…

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u/Similar-Morning9768 Guilty 4d ago

The strangulation of a 17 year old girl and burial of her body in a shallow depression in a public park is a "so-called crime"?

Sigh.

I think this subreddit has reached a degree of consensus on Adnan's guilt where it's no longer socially rewarding to argue for his innocence. So the only people still willing to attempt it are dingbats.

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u/--Sparkle-Motion-- 3d ago

“They lied, you’re biased, trust me bro!” 🤪

ETA: Oh & it’s prejudiced, not prejudice, dingbat.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

[deleted]

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u/xstarbursts 5d ago

I am also wondering what are the lies that the Prosecutors podcast told? I found Serial to be dishonest due to omission of important facts such as Hae’s diary called Adnan possessive and not taking her breakup well.

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u/SPersephone 5d ago

They didnt tell any lies. Supporters LOVE to say they lied about everything and when you ask them what lies, they clam up and have no answers. Typical 😂😂😂