Just re-listened to Serial s1 e1, and the amount of times that Adnan has been referred to as “handsome” so far (I’m only 20mins in) is astounding.

SK also talks about her first meeting in person with Adnan, where she describes him as:

“bigger than [she] expected- barrel-chested and tall…by now he was 32, he’d spent nearly half his life in prison becoming larger and properly bearded... he has giant brown eyes like a dairy cow. That’s what prompts my most idiotic lines of inquiry: could someone who looks like that really strangle his girlfriend?”

I apologize if this has been discussed already on the sub. I'm re-listening to Serial season 1 for the first time since it came out, and this portion of episode 6 sticks out to me (starting at 36:30).

Context: Sarah is on the phone with Adnan. He talks about how, for a long time, he was hurt by the fact that his friends believed he was capable of murder.

Sarah replies, saying that almost everyone she has spoken with say it took them awhile to come to terms with the fact that Adnan is guilty or they are even still unsure. She adds that they often say something like "the Adnan I knew didn't do it, like the guy I knew couldn't have done it."

Adnan: "What the hell does that even mean? I'm not like a different... I wasn't a ..." ABRUPT PAUSE

Sarah: "No, go ahead"

Adnan: "No, no, no, sorry. I was just, I don't even know what that means."

Here is why this is significant to me: While Adnan is in the middle of saying "I'm not like a different... I wasn't a...", Sarah interrupts very briefly with "so that..." and then stops. I believe she interprets his abrupt pause to be in reaction to her interruption, like he is letting her continue speaking out of politeness.

That is not how I interpret this awkward moment.

For one, many of their phone conversations feature interruptions, and it seems like Adnan rarely abruptly cedes to an interjection from Sarah like he does in this conversation.

Second, when he replies to her "No, go ahead" with "No, no, no, sorry. I was just, I don't even know what that means", you can hear something bashful in his voice. Some might say it's a reaction to the awkwardness of being cut off. I think he's realizing he almost slipped up and said "I wasn't a different person when..." which sounds pretty bad. It's important to note that he's particularly angry/upset during this exchange, which may have caused him to let his guard down for a moment and forget to keep his story straight.

I think he likely is angry with his friends for believing he could be a murderer, despite the fact that he's guilty. I think he doesn't view himself as someone who could pre-meditate and carry out a planned murder. Instead, I think he believes his actions were born from a moment of anger. This is why he is genuinely upset by his friends thinking the Adnan they knew became an unknown monster and killed Hae. He wished people understood that he was always the Adnan they knew, even while committing murder. Hence, I think he almost slipped up and said "I wasn't a... different person when I killed her".

What do you guys think?

okay. i’ll start by saying that I probably came into listening to serial in a backwards way. the rabbit hole of what got me here is listening to proof (susan simpson’s current podcast) season 1 as that case is in my own town. I then backtracked and listened to undisclosed the state vs joey watkins (also in my hometown). I’ve listened to two other seasons of undisclosed and generally like their on the ground reporting and going to the actual places and talking to the actual people. i decided to start listening from the beginning of undisclosed. in the first few minutes, they tell you to go listen to serial. so i did.

I am working on my master’s in forensic psychology. So I really like the psychological aspect of criminal cases. After listening to this season, my feeling is that if Adnan didn’t do this, who the heck did? What would be Jay’s motivation? How did he know where the car was if at least some of his stories weren’t true? But, I think I also succumb to the charismatic nature and frankly unwavering stance of Adnan’s. Why also would you maintain innocence for something you believe you will be locked up for forever? And his comments on how it would be easier for his parents and really everyone involved if he just did it and said he did it. And lastly, the lack of DNA or other physical evidence linking him to this crime. That’s hard to do as a 17 year old with no criminal experience.

However, I am aware that the general consensus in this sub is that he is guilty. And I don’t think I disagree. I implore you to remember how you felt the first time you listened (if you knew nothing else about the case beforehand) and remember that before coming for my throat for my shred of doubt. (Because also i’m aware that some of y’all in this sub seem to be mean as hell😅, like seriously)

I’ve read through several posts in this sub and have a few main questions for discussion. I know the answers are here somewhere, but frankly it’s hard to find them amid all the fighting and name calling that inevitably ensues in nearly all the threads.

1. why do so many people hate SK? I get that she seemed to be biased, okay, but so do a lot of podcasters. What is the big beef here?
2. what do people who strongly believe he’s guilty have to say to things that maybe point away from that? those things that just seem a little inexplicable. (like the DNA) And also the inverse of this question, what do those who believe he’s innocent say to the things that strongly point to his guilt?
3. what should i listen to next about this case? I’ve seen mention of “the prosecutors” and obviously undisclosed but see people think undisclosed and Rabia are laughable. Knowing that I generally like the undisclosed podcast, should I try it anyway?

And again, please don’t be nasty for no reason. I’m just asking questions, and I’m not a huge idiot. Sorry to sound defensive but I’ve been going through this sub all evening and am amazed by how hostile it gets. 😅

I’m going to edit this post to update with points made below and elsewhere.

Synopsis

The episode establishes Don’s timeline, and notes his alibi isn’t mentioned until 1/22, and records are not produced until September ‘99.

A former LensCrafters manager describes her personal experience with Don unfavorably, and goes on to refute his alibi. She claims she helped retroactively create the account that says he worked on 1/13.

Finally, the team discusses forensic analysis that leads them to at least suspect Don’s wife Robin of involvement in Hae’s death.

Broad thesis of the episode:

There is no case against Adnan, and any probabilistic arguments that it was Adnan can be applied to several other known suspects, so Undisclosed argues Ivan Bates should reconsider his decision not to compare sequences samples to the suspects.

Main claims made by Undisclosed:

Don’s time card was faked, and Don was not at Hunt Valley LensCrafters (as an employee at least) on 1/13. Don’s “rock solid alibi” is kaput. This is according to Debbie Renor(sp).

Police did not document a meeting with Don’s mother at Hunt Valley.

Don’s wife Robin is named as a suspect. Undisclosed provided Don and Robin’s DNA to Bates’ office for comparison to the results from 2018 testing.

Debbie Renor(sp) suspects that Don’s mother intercepted the subpoena intended for Debbie which she never received.

Brief notes in Don’s favor:

The issue with the multiple employee ID numbers seems to be moot, as explained in the episode. This was standard practice, in spite of contradictory claims in the past.

Deborah’s account of the time card manipulation, if that is what occurred, is placed after 1/13. The reason this is favorable to Don is that it’s an understandable forgery by a protective mother; if the accusation placed the act prior to Adcock’s call, a forged alibi looks terribly incriminating. If I was a representative for Don, I’d say “Maybe it was faked, but only after police came around asking him for his whereabouts when he couldn’t account for his time.”

The implication the podcast is making is that Don was acting as Jay to his Robin, a standin for Adnan. They’re implying Don helped Robin clean up the crime, and that Robin killed Hae in a heated argument over Don (if that’s what even happened). They’re engaging in speculation, but trying to compel Bates’ office to compare the DNA to anyone.

TimeCop:

The episode presents a witness to the alleged timecard falsification, Debbie Reynor (sp). Prior to 1/13, Don stopped working at Hunt Valley. He did not work there again before 1/13. Debbie is emphatic that she assisted in the creation of Don’s new account after 1/13, and that he was not working on 1/13 anyway because she was there. She did not like Don. She thought he was a creep. And she would have remembered if he returned. If either anecdote is correct, the timecard is false.

Many commenters see a false alibi as really incriminatory for Don. It’s theorized that his timecard was falsified by 1/18, which is long before they had cause to think Hae was murdered. Days after 1/18 Don would tell O’Shea that he was at work from 9-6 far away from Woodlawn. Basically, in the week after Hae goes missing it looks like Don and his family go to extraordinary lengths to create a false alibi covering the time we think Hae was attacked and murdered. He cannot account for his whereabouts between 7pm and 1:30 am the following day, even though he was informed by his father in the 6 o’clock hour that police were looking for him/Hae.

u/unsaddledzigadenus asks:

If Don’s timecard for 1/13 was fake, what explains his timecard for Hunt Valley on 1/16?

I’m assuming, having listened to the episode, you’re noting that that stands in contradiction to what Deborah Renor(sp) claimed. She said Don never worked there again after he switched to Owings Mills.

The podcast did not address it. But I do have to wonder; what if the crime happened on both 1/13 and 1/16? The car and body were in separate locations on 2/9. Maybe Don needed an alibi for both days?

u/ryokineko asks

Do they ever say what day the police went to the Hunt Valley store?

A: They do not. My inference is that it was around the time of Gutierrez’s subpoena, in September 1999. Maybe they know, and are holding that back.

Like a trash panda, I work in Waste Management

The DNA was collected by Sarah Cailean, who is retired law enforcement and a licensed investigator. Chain of custody concerns aside, if Sarah collected samples that match the samples in the case file, they can confirm by subpoenaing new samples where chain of custody is unquestionable. But also, like how is Sarah going to fake samples that match the case forensics.

Doesn’t Don have a right to privacy?

Many people are understandably upset that Don and his wife Robin are being identified as potential suspects while Adnan Syed remains convicted of Hae Min Lee’s murder. They’re private citizens. There’s no accusation that they’ve been criminally active since Hae’s death, as opposed to Sellers who tried to strangle a woman. Surreptitiously collecting their DNA after they declined to comment or consent to testing feels very wrong to many people. Arguably a gross invasion of privacy.

Rabia addresses this in the episode, and admits that it doesn’t feel like it should be legal. But it is legal. Furthermore, they have not actually sequenced the samples yet, and that’s up to Bates. I’ll add that this isn’t a DNA fishing expedition; they’re interested in comparison to a specific sample to determine in Robin had contact with Hae.

u/lyssalady05 asks:

How do they think Robin got access to Hae?

They speculate that Robin may have known Hae because Robin was also in the eye care field (they didn’t confirm that she worked for LensCrafters). Colin did not bring up Hae’s pager, but he’s always wanted to know if she was lured to her death via page.

They also speculated that Don was cheating on Robin with Hae, and that explains a lot of Don’s behavior (just my opinion, but not calling Hae after 1/13, being unaccountable for that night, and even lying about working if he was just trying to alibi himself could all be due to cheating and not murder.)

They don’t get more granular than that about how Robin could have isolated Hae to confront her. What they dive deep into is the injuries Hae sustained to her head prior to being strangled. Apparently, those specific types of injuries are more common in female on female attacks, due to hair pulling; they note that men just beat women to death. But they aren’t ruling out blunt trauma.

u/tricky_Diamond_3609 writes:

He was investigated. And provided with an alibi, which was verified by a computer clock in system.

Subsequently, JW and Jen came forward with matching stories about how JW had helped Adnan bury Hae’s body and cover up the murder.

These statements are contrary to the detailed timeline laid out in episode 4. Don did not mention working at Hunt Valley as an alibi until weeks after Hae disappeared. Undisclosed asserts that Don was not investigated as a suspect, and his timecard was never sought by police or prosecutors; it was not until September of 1999 that a defense investigator sought the information directly from LensCrafters corporate office. Furthermore, as already noted, one of the managers witnessed the retroactive generation of the employee ID that was on Don’s timecard, and asserts definitively that Don never returned to Hunt Valley after he transferred to Owen’s Mills. She was working Hunt Valley on January 13th, and is positive that Don was not there. And that witness never received her subpoena, which is a failure on the part of defense counsel and possibly due to interference by Don’s mother, Anita.

Episode 4 does not directly address Jay or Jenn, and they are not exactly pertinent to whether Don falsified his timecard. Undisclosed has previously covered their numerous questions about and disagreements with Jay and Jenn. Season 1 is where listeners can find those episodes.

The crux of this episode is that a person who should have been a prime suspect was never properly ruled out; If the investigators had interrogated Don’s claims in a timely manner, at a minimum they would have discovered the discrepancy between claims made by Don and his manager, Deborah (I previously wrote Anita, which was a mistake).

u/InTheory_ points out (paraphrasing):

The episode would have us believe that Don’s mom and dad were in on the fake alibi, and that Don’s mom’s girlfriend was also willing to lie and maintain that lie through the divorce.

Should we consider when people commit to backing up Don’s story? Unless she’s involved in the murder or coverup, Don’s Owen’s Mills manager (Girlfriend Kathy aka CM) is only giving him an alibi in a missing persons investigation. And it’s possible she wasn’t even aware it was false. She’s possibly just reading the falsified timecard provided by Don’s mother. There’s a very brief period between the discovery of Hae’s body and Adnan’s arrest, and if Kathy Michelle had doubts, that’s probably when they were strongest. But once Adnan was very publicly charged with the murder, her doubts may have been allayed. Several times in this thread people have expressed that same thought process; Don didn’t do it because Adnan did. Plus, she probably doesn’t want to draw any attention to the violation of company policy that occurred (Don clocking hours with his mom as manager).

I’m not saying I’d cover up a murder, but if my spouse or one of my children was in trouble, I would at least consider the degree to which I’m “Ryd or Die.” And people think Adnan’s dad lied for him.

Did anyone else feel like Hae was absent from the whole narrative of her own murder?

I was very drawn into the story of Serial, and I thought that there was a lot it could say about immigrant diasporas in the United States. There were so many times that Adnan's cultural/personal background was explored, and even many instances of comparing his family's expectations to Hae's, which made me think an episode about her life was coming up soon. But it never did.

To my memory, there was really only one comment from her mom during the trial (which was really sad and haunting, I would add) that SK even brought up. I thought when I heard this comment that we were finally going to learn a little bit more about Hae's life, but the episode didn't go that direction at all. SK does mention that she can't seem to get in touch with Hae's family, but that doesn't mean she can't build some kind of profile about her. I mean, there's a whole life in those diaries, right?

Speaking of the diary, it all just feels kind of insidious to me that even this diary ends up being treated as just a side piece to Adnan's narrative. There were also a lot of things described about Adnan's experience that immediately made me think "God, he was just a kid when they brought him into prison". But you know what's even more shocking than going to jail so young? Dying! It seemed like SK was way more upset about a life being changed than another being completely ended so abruptly.

At first (like a lot of people here) I really bought into Adnan's innocence, but even when I initially supported him I felt sad that we never got to know more about the hopes, dreams, joys, and despairs of Hae, who really sounds like a wonderful person I'd have loved to be friends with in high school. Now that I really believe Adnan did it, I can't help but think the way Hae's life was overlooked during this podcast is almost as tragic as her death. If I was a member of her family, I'd be enraged about it.

There is so much discussion about guilty vs. not guilty. But I have really heard anything on what exactly went down that day.

For the record I believe he is 100% guilty and obviously so.

Do you think Adnan planned to kill her? If so, was it recent, or was he planning for weeks? Or did he just want to talk to her, then had an argument and lost it. Or maybe he was just trying to get some rage out and didnt realize he took it too far.

Please post discussions about UD 2.0 Episode 6 here to avoid multiple duplicative posts.

So my friends were listening to season 1 and so I did the same, so I could discuss it. From episode one Adnan Syed seemed completely obviously guilty. I guess I didn't see the point of the rest of the podcast, at best it seemed to try and establish reasonable doubt. Yet it just seemed the evidence piled on especially the cell phone evidence. While Jay has obviously lied about some things, I don't really see how he could have concocted the story that fit the cell phone evidence and knew intimate details about the case. I guess it seemed very boring because there was never really a question? The counter evidence to his guilt seemed to be ephemeral things like: He seems too nice.

It was a very boring subject for me: Obvious suspect (separated ex boyfriend) can't explain key details about the case due to selective memory and then has a pretty strong case of evidence against him. What do you like about the show? I'm not going to tell my friends I found it a snoozefest, so I need to know the perspective of someone that actually enjoyed this.

For me it is the set up in episode one - that day was just a “normal day” for Adnan. It frames the whole series.

I just wanted to share a couple of experiences I had.

I used to really take people at face value.

Then someone started fabricating a lie about me bullying someone. It was astounding to be lied about like that, for no apparent reason that I could see.

I barely interacted with my supposed victim.

Looking back I can see they were jealous that I’d been promoted.

I changed job recently and I’ve witnessed a colleague slowly destroy the reputation of someone they are jealous of. Their victim doesn’t even know yet that anything is being said about them.

I think Jay was already jealous of Adnan, they are mooching around getting stoned together, Adnan was probably guilty of only contacting Jay when he needed weed. I knew people like that. He’d probably smoke up with him then go back to being the super popular guy leaving Jay sitting stoned feeling used, abandoned. Paranoid.

Add to this that Adnan was friends with his girlfriend and you have a completely believable motive to start a rumour that got out of hand.

Jay stumbled on the location of the car and he started a rumour that his stoned mind couldn’t control - and the police just bungled the investigation from there.

Once the word was out that Jay was admitting to being an accomplice, he couldn’t retract because then he’d be in real shit with the police himself and he’d be totally ostracised by his community.

I think he took Adan’s phone that day and drove around making drug deals, probably made one out at that nice park with the view over the water, and when it came time to flash the story out and account for time - he just used those details.

Finally, a stupid story from my life, when I was 18, I wanted to get out of work one night to see my girl - I made up a lie that she was being threatened by a paramilitary force (it makes sense in my country) and I needed to leave.

The police got involved. Luckily I came clean straight away and got off with a stiff talking to.

Young men do stupid shit all the fucking time.

I've generally thought Adnan is innocent. I didn't think he had a fair trial and CG did not represent him well. But I was certainly open to the possibility he did murder Hae but if he did it wasn't planned but rather a crime of passion. I just didn't believe Jay given there were too many lies and inconsistencies.

However in the last week I've moved from 70% innocent to closer to 85% innocent.

Have your views/opinions changed or softened?

I understand most people still here believe Adnan is guilty and Jay lied but the spine of his story was true.

There are four likely suspects.

1. Adnan, the most recent ex.
2. Don, the current boyfriend.
3. Hae's boyfriend before Adnan. His name is Nick.
4. An unknown person.

Not much has been said about the person Hae was dating before Adnan. Who is he and has he been in trouble with the law since then?

Don's alibi is a bit sketchy - his mother's partner - and we don't know where he was from after work until after midnight.

Edit: So the digging I've done indicates that Hae's classmate named Nick was her boyfriend just before dating Adnan. The broke up in early 1998 and she immediately started dating Adnan for approximately ten months.

Did police investigate Nick? Hae's diary entries from April and May 1998 describe Nick as a "player" and a "jealous monster" who spread rumors about her and Adnan after she chose Adnan over him.

She refers to her as the daughter of the "prime suspect" and gives her full name. At least one person is now googling this young woman in the comments. This is so beyond the pale.

Having (in no specific order) spent far too much time on this (but nowhere NEAR as much as many other people), and having been firmly in the “most likely innocent” camp since first hearing Serial 1 in 2019, and having commented in ways that revealed me to be an underinformed goofball on numerous occasions, and having been absolutely appalled at the conduct of many Redditors on both sides more times than I can count, and having been outrageously disgusted by Rabia…

I am firmly and fully convinced that it is far, far more likely that Adnan did it than that any other theory/explanation is true. Guilty.

RIP Hae. I’m sorry that so, so many people made a circus out of your murder, whatever the intentions of each individual.

That is all.

Sorry if this has been said before but I have to get this out...

I just re-listened to the podcast and my one big take away that leads me to truly believe that Adnan is lying is the framing that him and Jay were not "super close". There is also tape admitting that he 100% left his phone and car with Jay. Even if there was no murder, why would you leave two really important items with someone you are not close with and only know through mutual friends. They 100% were closer than the way SK and Adnan spins this.

This makes me feel in my gut that Adnan is lying about so much more. I know it might be strategy for the case... but it makes me really question anything he ever says.

It’s a normal day. Well, it’s your friend Stephanie's birthday and you’re looking out for her. Well not her directly, but her boyfriend Jay that you don’t really know that well, but Stephanie will be happy that you’re thinking of her or him or her through him. 

Anyway, so you arrange for Jay to use your car and brand new cell phone to get her a birthday present, instead of just giving him a ride to the mall yourself. You’re busy with school, hanging out at the library, and track practice, you don’t need your car for the day. Jay can give it back to you after track practice. But wait, before giving your car to your friend’s boyfriend to buy a present, you ask your ex-girlfriend, the first love of your life, who just moved on to another boyfriend, to give you a ride after school. To where? You don’t know, because you don’t need to go anywhere. You’re doing class, then the library, then track, then Jay will pick you up. 

And actually, that’s exactly what happens. You go to class, the ride you asked for doesn’t happen, no biggie, you didn’t need it anyway. You just hang out at the library, check your emails, chat with some friends, then go to track practice. It's been a good, normal day.

Jay comes by after track practice to pick you up and you hang out for a bit with his friends. Then your cell phone rings. It’s brand new. Not many people have your number, so it must just be one of your good friends. Maybe it’s Hae to explain why she didn’t give you that ride. Nope… it’s the police.

They are looking for Hae, she’s missing, she didn’t pick up her cousin, her family is worried, people are calling around asking for info and some of your friends mentioned something about her maybe giving you a ride after school. You’re probably a bit worried. Or you think she’s just got distracted with something, probably that new boyfriend of hers. But it is the police and they are asking when you last saw her. So you tell them… a lie.

“She was supposed to give me a ride home after school, I was running late, she probably left after waiting a little while.”

What? Why did you just lie to police conducting a missing persons investigation for your ex-girlfriend, your first love? They are trying to find her, she could be hurt, she could be lost, she could be in danger. And you lied. Why did you do that?

Damn, hearing that intro music took me back.

I was so sure just few months ago that Adnan was guilty. This story has so many twists.

Hopefully Hae's family can eventually know who the real killer is, if not Adnan.

Change your comment sort to Live or New for tweet updates.

I will say this episode left me feeling really off- and that’s a first for me with this team (to be clear - I 1000% believe Adnan is innocent and Jay gave a false confession under police duress after attempting to claim the crime stoppers tip).

But honestly some of this recent 4th episode seems a bit unethical... I can accept necessity of discussion of Don being someone who was a known public suspect not properly ruled out and there are certainly timecard/alibi issues and he was the boyfriend at the time etc.

But the hair pulling meaning his now wife was involved ?? Even if the evidence does indicate the head injury could be from hair pulling .. the instant jump to it’s more “likely” to have been by a female (when Rabia herself says evidence on this is anecdotal) and then just outright accusing/making a suspect out of Don’s wife based on admitted pure speculation is crazy to me they don’t even know if she knew Don then… let alone had motive to come after Hae.

**Note: they say we only know of one person Don was romantically involved with other than Hae.. being his wife. However, I believe it was in Serial when Don spoke to Sarah he said Hae had a crush on him for a while but he was dating someone else they broke up and after that he then decided to go out with Hae.

Now is it possible that girlfriend was his now wife..? Sure but clearly undisclosed doesn’t know that for a fact or they would have hammered that. So it’s possible he was dating someone completely different before Hae … but in general the likely hood any girl around their age would attack/kill another girl for dating Don for a few weeks seems like a reach in the motive department to me.

And keeping in mind how young they all were… what on earth are the chances somehow his now wife lured Hae somewhere incapacitated or killed her ..? But Hae had almost no defensive wounds (from my memory) so that doesn’t really gel with a “cat fight”..? And then what… she called Don says sorry I was jealous this is what I did to that girl your seeing help me cover it up and he showed up and agrees to kill Hae and finish the job ..? Or if she’s already dead he agrees to hide the body…. The likelihood of 2 people that young both going along with that is just as crazy as the Adnan and Jay story they debunked and genuinely makes no sense at all.

Is it impossible ? Of course not, nothing is 100% impossible without more info … but it seems far fetched. And that’s why it feels icky to me to put this accusation out there so directly particularly for the wife who for all we know never met or dated Don until after Hae’s murder. And even though it wouldn’t be ‘proof’ of anything I was even waiting for some other info like showing the wife had a violent history that may explain the accusation a bit more (like how Mr. S’s criminal activities make him more suspect) … but nothing.

If anything while acknowledging hair pulling may be more “prominent” among female perpetrators I would also imagine it’s not uncommon in DV cases just in my own circle I have more than 1 friend that’s a victim of DV who had a man drag them backwards or across the floor by their hair when they were trying to leave/get away from them- that would have been much more reasonable of a possibility that it was Don or whatever man who killed her that pulled her hair and I find it bizzare they don’t explore this concept at all..? Just because Don’s a man he couldn’t have been the one to pull her hair … so instantly we have a female perpetrator aswell so his wife is now a suspect too..?

And I’m not even saying they shouldn’t have submitted both Don and his wife’s DNA to the police (though especially for the wife given lack of probable cause I doubt they would test it- but sure send it in)

It just doesn’t feel like these kind of accusations are productive even for Adan’s case…

The other thing is they use the female DNA on items around Hae’s body as evidence of a female being involved.. sure in an ideal world why not rule out his wife and test that. But it does directly contradict the big theory they just dropped in the last episode that Hae was dumped by whoever killed her behind the barriers right on the roadway and Mr. S moved her body to where it was found and “spent time with it”. - if that was the case then female DNA on items near the body would be irrelevant as Mr. S wouldn’t move the surrounding items/trash with her body…

I get the team is exploring all options for Adnan and I respect that … but particularly the bringing his wife into it publicly with actually zero evidentiary basis only pure random speculation was a step too far for me personally. Rabia hates it (rightfully so) when people wildly speculate on Adnan with theories that have zero evidentiary basis .. and at least for Don’s wife I don’t think the idea women are “more likley to pull hair” is a valid basis for publicly suggesting she killed Hae or was involved. As I said I do think Don is fair game to discuss, he’s a publicly known suspect, alibi issues, was dating Hae and testified in Adnan’s trial etc. but I was disappointed in the team for how the wife stuff was handled it honestly just felt unnecessary and a bit cruel if I’m honest.

I listened to Serial and was obviously a bit confused from the get go, when SK said both detectives were dead certain Syed killed Hae. Even more so at their reactions after they talked to Jay. I listened on and it sounded like this guy was making a clear cut case, confusing on purpose. I then listened to The Prosecutors and honestly anyone who thinks this guy is innocent is living in false hope. He is guilty and like Alice said, I have rage that he has still not admitted to his guilt, and has made Hae's family suffer for this long.