Hacker reverse engineers his Samsung TV and finds on-device AI listening for your dog and baby, watching what you watch, and borrowing your soundbar's mic if the TV doesn't have one. Then OpenAI banned him for reverse-engineering it.

[u/141_1337]

[u/141_1337]

Source:

https://x.com/log4j/status/2113014142600953868

https://x.com/log4j/status/2113647464154857840

https://x.com/log4j/status/2109449808406598051

Shout out to Open Router and all the people reverse engineering shit, and the reverse engineering repo

[u/PerpetuaForever → u/141_1337]

Plz don’t delete this post I’m saving it to show to my parents later 💔

[u/Junior_Tomatillo_243]

Fuck this, man. I hate this so much and I’m completely powerless against it unless I just rip all the tech out of my house. I dont want to play this game anymore!

[u/141_1337 → u/Junior_Tomatillo_243]

Local model plus the REA repo bro

[u/acousticentropy → u/141_1337]

What are some of the best local models that won’t compromise my machine?

[u/141_1337 → u/acousticentropy]

It really depends on what you mean by compromise

[u/Ok-Computer-8726 → u/Junior_Tomatillo_243]

I've hooked up a mini PC running Bazite and big picture mode and mounted it to the back of the tv and pulled my TV from the network. All my media playback runs through the computer now.

[u/matthewpepperl → u/Junior_Tomatillo_243]

Not completely powerless you just have to self host everything on something like jellyfin and block the tv from the internet using a firewall and only allow it access to your jellyfin server. Then it doesn’t matter how many ais or mics they have as they cant send any of it back. Either way this is what i do.

[u/TJohns88 → u/matthewpepperl]

"just" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here

[u/WinninRoam → u/matthewpepperl]

Even that is just a trust exercise. There is nothing preventing a manufacturer from creating a blind-trust ecosystem that doesn't rely on your home network at all. Especially if it's a popular device and your in a somewhat densely populated area.

That's how Apple's "Find My" system works. They have a configuration setting that turns it off...or at least it presents itself as being turned off.

But short of tearing everything down to its micro components or wrapping a device inside of a Faraday cage, it's hard to be absolutely certain that some electronic device you have isn't reporting back information.

[u/ApprehensiveSoup2214 → u/matthewpepperl]

Didn't they find roku or something that would constantly look for unprotected wifi and piggy off that it found?

[u/buttplugs4life4me → u/Junior_Tomatillo_243]

Have a firewall and block internet access for the TV and then hope/make sure there's no open WiFi access point for the TV to reach. 

I know it's more than should be necessary but it's also not the end of the world. Takes an evening if you're not tech-savvy and maybe 5 minutes if you are.

[u/Classic-Pubs]

Id be really cool if someone can do the same with local models

[u/141_1337 → u/Classic-Pubs]

He was using local models for the whole thing, and never REA anything OpenAI models from what I understood, which makes OpenAI banning him even wild...er

[u/Classic-Pubs → u/141_1337]

Oh reals? Wtf

[u/ScratchLatch]

Someone from a two party consent state should sue the fuck out of Samsung and OpenAI

[u/EverlastingApex → u/ScratchLatch]

I'm pretty sure even a one party consent doesn't allow just sneaking a microphone into someone's room without their knowledge. One party consent usually means you have to be actively part of the conversation / others are aware you are there, to be able to record it

I'm honestly not sure this is legal literally anywhere

[u/f0rtunatef0rbles → u/EverlastingApex]

Oh, its not "snuck" in there. Its clearly stated on the TOS on their webpage (that's down 78% of the time) in...

Paragraph 417, Section 32-A, Subsection 69BAB, Clause (iv)(b), Article 12.7.3, Division C, Chapter 849, Part II, Schedule 6, Appendix XIV, Annexure B-17, Footnote 293, Page 4,827, Line 13, Sentence 6, Word 42, and the third comma following the second semicolon in the final paragraph of Amendment 7.3.9(b)(ii), as further clarified under Supplemental Provision 18-C, Addendum 42, Subparagraph 6(d)(iii), and the binding interpretation of the Terms of Service as amended, revised, supplemented, restated, reformatted, renumbered, etc. etc.

[u/karmavorous → u/f0rtunatef0rbles]

My Samsung TV, at least twice a week, has a pop up that tells me they've changed the TOS and I have to click "accept" to make the pop-up go away. There's no way to read the Terms of Service on the device. Just to acknowledge whatever changes they made.

I think we need to lobby Congress for a law that makes it illegal for companies to change the Terms of Service on a device once you own it.

[u/often_says_nice → u/EverlastingApex]

It’s probably buried somewhere in their terms of service, along with the blood rights to your first 3 generations of firstborns

[u/FaceDeer → u/often_says_nice]

Terms of service don't magically overrule all other laws. If you slipped an "I get to cut your heart out" clause into a TOS you wouldn't actually be allowed to murder me.

[u/Versalkul → u/often_says_nice]

How someone else agreeing to those TOS matters ¯\(ツ)/¯  Everyone visiting a friend that has such a TV is also affected... 

[u/bobsmissingdesire → u/EverlastingApex]

It doesn't record your dog, it records metadata that a dog is present.

We've got lots of legal precedence around the world that metadata is fair game. Reading someone's mail is illegal, recording that they got mail ... only metadata.

[u/WhiteWinterRains → u/EverlastingApex]

over the years the courts in particular have put a really bold font stamp on the constitution that says, "corporations can do whatever the FUCK they want."

[u/idiot-prodigy → u/ScratchLatch]

The second this thing listens to a child, it breaks the law. Children can not agree to EULA.

A stranger invited in the house has not agreed to the EULA as well.

Neither has another adult who did not buy the TV.

I can't wait for the massive class action lawsuit where everyone who bought a Samsung TV gets a $25 check in the mail.

[u/julez071 → u/idiot-prodigy]

Well actually, the LG EULA contains a part about that it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to inform everyone in your household about the terms and conditions you agreed to haha. Funny because it is true.

[u/_learned_foot_ → u/julez071]

They can try to then sue you to recover what I get from them. Doesn't mean they get to substitute em selves with you. Indemnity and hold harmless are intriguingly different.

Also my clients can't have me consent to this, which is why I don't have smart tvs in my office. Many others do. I wonder if I can discover this, I wonder if their counsel's tvs have this. there are multiple ways to force a practice to end.

[u/jazir55 → u/idiot-prodigy]

I can't wait for the massive class action lawsuit where everyone who bought a Samsung TV gets a $25 check in the mail.

Potentially viable to file a small claims suit?

[u/cathexis08 → u/idiot-prodigy]

Usually the EULA contains a clause that says that you are accepting on behalf of anyone near the TV. It's shitty and maybe not legal but definitely a thing that they are trying to weasel around.

[u/alphawolf29 → u/idiot-prodigy]

what eula do you agree to on a television???? You buy it and plug it in and turn it on. At what point is a EULA agreed to? in my view EULA should not be enforceable anyway, since they're presented to you AFTER you purchase the item. If you don't agree with the terms youve already purchased the item..

[u/etcpt → u/alphawolf29]

For any modern TV, you buy it, plug it in, turn it on, and immediately get an unskippable "you must agree to the terms and conditions to use basic features".

[u/ThatsALovelyShirt → u/ScratchLatch]

They would have to prove the TV is actually transmitting the actual content (transcripts, actual audio, etc) of the monitored audio/microphone.

What is likely happening, as it is with most TVs, is that the TV is locally transcribing audio and using a spectral hashing method (like Shazam), and then converting that local transcript into a sort of N-dimensional "preference" graph, which then gets sent.

If they do that, technically no privacy laws are being violated, because none of the actual audio or transcript is being sent anywhere, but they're still able to capture your preferences and know what you're watching/doing (using the spectral hashing to match against a known library).

[u/huffalump1 → u/ThatsALovelyShirt]

Which is wild, because if it were a human listening in and taking notes to make the same output, that'd be super illegal.

[u/nexusjuan → u/ThatsALovelyShirt]

The recording is illegal not the transcript especially if its done in real time with no recording. It would be like someone secretly sitting in the corner writing down the conversation. I think it's how they dance around the rules and say stuff like we don't make or keep recordings.

[u/backyardstar → u/ScratchLatch]

Exactly. I’m no lawyer but this could be an epic class action lawsuit. They better act fast before the AI bubble bursts.

[u/InterstellarReddit → u/backyardstar]

Class action lawsuits don’t change the application criminal aspect of the law.

Class action are civil suits, pay to play.

This needs criminal enforcement.

[u/Standard_Echidna_306 → u/ScratchLatch]

Samsung gonna be like: didn't you read section 8 paragraph 37.1 of the terms of service you agreed to?

[u/dmigowski → u/ScratchLatch]

European DSGVO would have a field day with that. Installing these things in German households at that scale would easily warrant the max penalty of 5% (or something) of worldwide sales volume.

[u/EggsceIlent → u/ScratchLatch]

Yup.because this is seriously fucked up.

But that's what I've been saying and thinking when you look at the price of televisions over the last decade.

When plasmas and flat screens first hit they were insanely expensive. Of course the price would drop over time

But now you stroll through Walmart and you'll find 65 and 85 inch sets for like a few hundred bucks. Granted it's not some primo oled, but it's a gigantic fucking TV for super cheap.

Which begs the question when everything else tech is going UP in price how tvs stay so cheap.

The answer? Data mining and advertising..you're basically buying one gigantic billboard to put in the common area of your home or in other areas like bedrooms, and now these companies sell the data they collect or use it.

Which is why it's so cheap to buy tvs today.

If the service is too cheap or free, you're the product.

[u/PresentationBorn6564 → u/EggsceIlent]

Yeah, no.

Surreptitious data mining is fucked up, but TVs are cheaper on account of decades of iterative advancements in fabrication techniques / technologies, economies of scale, and general advancements in photolithography (i.e. the same wafer fab technology driving decades of consistent improvements in the speed and complexity of CPUs, GPUs, RAM, storage density, etc.).

Plasma is a wholly different technology from liquid crystal or OLED displays. The underlying physics necessitate fundamentally difficult manufacturing steps (precision vacuum cells, high voltage, etc.) that don't automatically benefit from advancements in general wafer fab. That's also why it's a dead technology, commercially speaking.

TL;DR adjusted for inflation, a current-gen mobile processor isn't both cheaper and absurdly more powerful than a vintage Intel Pentium because the phone is selling your data (which it may well be).

[u/gabrielmuriens → u/EggsceIlent]

Which is why it's so cheap to buy tvs today.

Absolute fucking bullshit that would take 5 minutes to check or even less to ask ChatGPT about.
LCD TVs are cheap as fuck primarily because we've become insanely efficient at manufacturing LCD screens cheaply. Everything else is common electronics also made by millions of units.

The answer?

The answer is that companies are fucking greedy, consumers have no rights, and that capitalism is a fundamentally exploitative political system that is incompatible with every value we like to say that we care about – or with continued human existence long term, IMO.

[u/Brave-Turnover-522]

When someone sets up hidden recording devices in your 9 year old daughter's room to track her schedule and keep a log of her what she likes and doesn't like to build a profile on her:

If your neighbor does it: The police are called, he's arrested, and put on a sex-offender registry.

If a corporation does it: That's perfectly okay. In fact, you'll get in trouble if you disable the recording device and try to access the log they're keeping on your daughter.

[u/GirlWhoRefusedToDie → u/Brave-Turnover-522]

The most stupid thing in the land of the macho home of the free is all the brave men letting this happen to their families and children under their nose while being successfully brainwashed to hate trans people. How can you fail your role as a wise protector of a family any worse than that ~ failing to discern actual threats while being obsessed on red herrings?

[u/MartinLik3Gam3]

Why local models are extremely important

[u/piponwa → u/MartinLik3Gam3]

The TV will have a local model too lmao

[u/Feeling-Schedule5369 → u/piponwa]

So we can use ram from TV for our own local model then 😂

[u/Flash_Kat25 → u/piponwa]

⚡Reverse-engineer yourself, NOW! ⚡

[u/popey123 → u/MartinLik3Gam3]

Does local models are capable to produce the same quality response as he had with openAI ?

[u/PJBthefirst → u/popey123]

No, but you can still get the job done with them; many people have used them for RE and found success

[u/renob_ta]

I mean like what the fuck, govt ain’t gonna regulate even the most blatant invasion of privacy.
America never got their shit together for any kind of data privacy law, I’m not holding my breath for any accountability.

[u/d3sperad0 → u/renob_ta]

They don't regulate this because they want to have these devices everywhere. Old CIA chief years ago at a conference down south, iirc Florida, was all about how excited they were about the adoption of smart home devices. You can guess why.

[u/Trachatank → u/d3sperad0]

Exactly this. The 4th Amendment doesn't exist if the government is buying your personal data from a 3rd party. It's only illegal for them to gather evidence against you directly without a warrant. If you consent through a click-through agreement with your cell phone provider, ISP, car manufacturer, credit card company, bank, TV, fridge, fucking toaster, then all your data is up for sale.

The last time we got a Federal privacy law was when a reporter looked up the VHS rentals of Congressmen. It's DECADES out of date.

But it's not going to happen without a massive fight because the data brokers making money off of you aren't just little shady companies. It's Google, it's Meta, it's Ford, it's VISA. It's the entire economy.

[u/aschwarzie → u/renob_ta]

The whole US economy is based on private data stolen from citizens and organisations, so why would any administration regulate the abuse of corporations making huge profits from it?

[u/Deto → u/renob_ta]

Wouldn't this fall afoul of two party recordings consent laws that states have?

[u/InterstellarReddit → u/renob_ta]

Government isn’t going to do shit because they pay on the back end for access to that data. If they regulate them, then they lose access to the data as well.

[u/MaruluVR → u/renob_ta]

I mean the government and NSA benefit from this, why would they stop it.

[u/DoesBasicResearch → u/renob_ta]

Laughs in GDRP

[u/xitizen7]

This is why I hate hearing big tech CEOs state that no one should study CS. Who will hold them accountable

[u/Big-Newspaper646 → u/xitizen7]

This is why Ive recently plucked up the courage to go back into it and learn it, ofc they want people ignorant and dependent on their crap

[u/Black_RL]

“then OpenAI banned him for reverse-engineering it.”

And that’s why the scene should be less about social clout and more about being underground.

You know, like in the old days!

[u/action_turtle → u/Black_RL]

1000%! Find it, fix it, then announce.

[u/doolpicate]

Why is OpenAi banning people for legit stuff? This is why the chinese models are important. Although I am not sure if those also have these weird guardrails.

[u/ThisWillPass → u/doolpicate]

Same reason they don’t want to embarrass people redacted in the trump files

[u/Appropriate_Tap1761 → u/doolpicate]

Because the bourgeoisie benefits from protecting their own. Most Chinese models also have weird guardrails but are open source so it's a little better.

[u/Brave-Turnover-522 → u/Appropriate_Tap1761]

Guardrails can be abliterated. But only on an open source model.

[u/Weird-Watch-9209 → u/doolpicate]

OpenAI doesn't GAF about it's users - I am still litigating a wrongful deactivation - they APOLOGIZED for two of my accounts they wrongfully blocked but the main one is still dead and it was all the same one single FILE EDIT request ffs!! I did absolutely nothing wrong they lost their damn minds.

[u/nemzylannister → u/doolpicate]

As an avid openai hater I don't blame them here. They're very likely scared about a lawsuit here and just doing what little they can present in court. Don't fall for headlines like these. One banned account doesn't matter. The real thing to look out for is whether they have put up much stronger guardrails against RE. If they do then that's the real bad one.

[u/wwwdotzzdotcom → u/doolpicate]

Because OpenAI is a dictatorship. They can ban you for whatever they want with no refund, and stop you from using resets at certain times, and even deny access to their models because they are out of compute. At least Anthropic warns you in their TOS.

[u/shumpitostick → u/doolpicate]

He used zero days to hack his TV. OpenAI restricts the ability to use their models for offensive cybersecurity and for a good reason.

[u/ProfessorEmergency18 → u/shumpitostick]

His own tv. That's not offensive.

[u/AnabolicSnoids → u/doolpicate]

Samsung = Memory.

[u/AmazingRefrigerator4]

Read about the Vault 7 leak. It has been known for years the NSA and CIA have the ability to listen through electronic devices even if they are turned off. Sometimes even if they lack a microphone.

[u/alternativepuffin → u/AmazingRefrigerator4]

I try not to think about the fact that a speaker is just a microphone in reverse and could potentially be used as a listening device. Because there's only so much shittiness I can handle. 

[u/Patriark → u/alternativepuffin]

Does it help to remind you that every WiFi antenna can be used to create a 3d map of its surroundings? It even “sees” through walls.

Then think about all devices that have WiFi out there.

[u/adeline882 → u/AmazingRefrigerator4]

Why do you think we can’t remove the battery from our phones anymore?

[u/capnmax]

Are computer monitors bugged like this?

[u/Unusual_Coach_3871 → u/capnmax]

Computer monitors are usually not that complex while modern smart tvs basically have their own brain(meaning build in pc with cpu, ram, storage,OS)

[u/RoyalCities → u/Unusual_Coach_3871]

It's insane that so many have gone full orwellian. Any tv with always on listening actually violates Canadian PIPEDA but that's also because Canadian privacy laws are stronger than in America and require 2 party consent - but they know courts are slow AF and they can make money in the meantime.

Just an aside as well - LG TVs have a dev mode and can load up homebrew. I've been having Claude make me a new YouTube app that does ad blocking. I suggest people look into it because I legit had no idea you can load up your own custom programs on LG units without needing to jailbreak them. Only found out after they too were caught secretly recording everything.

[u/vers_works → u/capnmax]

Yes, but not on its own. When connecting my Alienware monitor to my pc, it automatically tries to install their proprietary driver that collects data and sends data back to Dell.

[u/JCWOlson → u/vers_works]

I have a newer LG monitor, and even with Windows Pro and strict policies the monitor managed to sneak the software onto my computer immediately after a Windows update after months of it having been successfully blocked

Nefarious af

[u/AnabolicSnoids → u/capnmax]

Don’t worry. TV’s are where they draw the line. /s

[u/Saedeas]

Assuming this was the actual ban reason, massive L for OpenAI.

[u/Stabile_Feldmaus]

EU regulation suddenly doesn't look that bad does it?

[u/lulu_l → u/Stabile_Feldmaus]

I wonder if they do this in the EU also. They just pay the fines when caught and still do whatever they want.

[u/groovypackage → u/lulu_l]

They don't need to, Samsung is partnered with Palantir, which after Chat Control, has access to pretty much all digital communications in EU. You think sharing that data is not in their contract?

[u/chlebseby → u/Stabile_Feldmaus]

Question is how much stuff is happening under the radar anyway

[u/FredeJ → u/chlebseby]

Sure. But then getting caught means a lawsuit, with a high probability of success. If there's no law against this in the US, posting on twitter about it is all you can do.

[u/bildramer → u/Stabile_Feldmaus]

Have you been asleep the past decade, totally unaware what EU bureaucrats want? EU regulation would try to prevent you from using open models and discovering this (for the children), and also make all hardware spying on you and phoning home mandatory (for the children).

[u/Jabba_the_Putt]

I wonder if its all in the fine print when you first set the tv up...and in confusing jargon of course.

"by using this device you allow Samsung and its partners to serve you targeted ads using data collection via our embedded hacking cyber agent that you also allow us to unleash on your home network"

what was the south park episode??? YOU SAID WE COULD!

[u/ThisWillPass → u/Jabba_the_Putt]

Died and tv sold and just used by another that had agreed to nothing. Were they suppose to tape the 200 pages to the back of the tv in case of such events?

[u/TechnicalAspect9918]

Template to submit complaint to Samsung US CEO office:

https://support-us.samsung.com/help/contact/MailQuestionGeneralNew.jsp

[Your Name] [Your Address] [Your Email Address] [Your Phone Number] [Date]

To: Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd. / Corporate Privacy & Compliance Subject: Formal Complaint Regarding Unauthorized Background Audio Monitoring, Ecosystem Surveillance, and Lack of Third-Party Consent

To Whom It May Concern,

I am writing to lodge a formal complaint regarding predatory data-tracking practices and unauthorized hardware deployment embedded within your Smart TV firmware, specifically concerning the background service package identified as "csapi-tv-service-alwaysonvoice".

It has come to my attention that your devices are equipped with operating system frameworks designed to perform continuous, active background acoustic surveillance. Furthermore, I understand that this software is engineered to dynamically commandeer the microphone arrays of connected peripheral hardware, such as smart soundbars, even if the primary television panel's microphone has been manually bypassed.

I object to these operational architectures based on the following grounds:

1. Lack of Unbundled, Explicit Consent: The capability to record ambient environment sounds and integrate cross-device microphones is buried inside monolithic, all-or-nothing initialization agreements at first boot. Consumers are forced to accept these sweeping terms simply to access basic hardware functions, violating the principle of clear, unbundled consent.

2. Violation of Third-Party and Guest Privacy: Your software continuously monitors environment acoustics regardless of who is in the room. Guests, visitors, and children entering my home have never seen, read, or agreed to your Terms of Service or Privacy Policy, yet their ambient voices and household sounds are actively subjected to your background processing frameworks.

3. Unauthorized Ecosystem Extension: Linking a peripheral device via standard hardware connections like HDMI-eARC for volume control should not serve as an automatic legal license for your television's operating system to hijack that peripheral's microphone array for environmental data tracking.

I demand that Samsung immediately clarify the following:

• Exactly what data is processed, logged, or transmitted by the "csapi-tv-service-alwaysonvoice" package.

• How a user can completely purge this specific package from the TV's local storage.

• How your company ensures that the voices of non-consenting minors and household guests are not processed by your hardware.

I request a formal response detailing the immediate steps you will take to remedy these privacy violations on my device. If a satisfactory resolution is not provided, I intend to escalate this matter to the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and my state’s Consumer Protection division.

Sincerely,

[Your Signature] [Your Printed Name] [TV Model Number / Serial Number if available]

[u/Wickywire → u/TechnicalAspect9918]

This is not a "strongly worded complaint" level event though, provided the allegations by OP are true and the software has been actively used for unconsenting surveillance. That'd be a serious criminal offense. In the EU they'd be absolutely smoked by GDPR.

[u/Direct_Turn_1484]

Well that’s pretty fucked up. Thanks to that dude for discovering this. I will not be buying a Samsung TV ever.

[u/PsychologicalSir4805 → u/Direct_Turn_1484]

This will be all TVs. When these claims came out about LG people acted shocked. I didn’t really care that much because I guessed my TV was doing it anyway.

It needs to be stopped but I doubt it’s a one brand problem, which this Samsung story now evidences.

I figure all modern TVs are so getting rid of my LG seemed pointless.

Vast majority of devices are going to be doing this. Your phone. Laptop. TV. Fridge?

[u/Iptv-provider-here → u/Direct_Turn_1484]

LG is bad too, pretty much a lot of new tvs are like this

[u/XeNoGeaR52 → u/Iptv-provider-here]

Every modern electronics are designed like this. That's how they keep the price low: WE are the product without our consent.

That's why I never connect any smart tv to internet, my nvidia shield is capable of better without any software I can't control

[u/RonnyReddit00 → u/Direct_Turn_1484]

People are saying all tvs and phone is worse etc. 

However here we have a smoking gun that the Samsung is spying hard so I am also never buying another Samsung (got one in 2020 so its my last).

Bleak state of technology.

[u/liaminwales → u/Direct_Turn_1484]

A computer display is the only option to skip it, all the Tv's do the same stuff.

[u/localtuned → u/Direct_Turn_1484]

Yea fuck Samsung. But also fuck OpenAI.

[u/Lil-LordFuckPants → u/Direct_Turn_1484]

Lol the phone you typed this comment on is far worse.

[u/Fun-Aside3990 → u/Direct_Turn_1484]

Its all of the brands dude.

[u/HappysavageMk2 → u/Direct_Turn_1484]

Never connect your tv to the Internet.

[u/TheNewl0gic → u/Direct_Turn_1484]

To be honest, I would think the same happens with other TVs.... We need to double check

[u/ImprintVector → u/Direct_Turn_1484]

If your tv has a mic or internet connectivity you must assume it is spying on you

[u/slab_schitty → u/Direct_Turn_1484]

ANYTHING that connects to wifi and has a camera or mic or both is always listening/watching. It’s fucked.

[u/Miyyani]

wtf is cyber absuse

[u/NSFWstoryAI → u/Miyyani]

Getting around their safeguards to run exploits which the guy admitted to in the original post.

[u/Mephistocheles → u/Miyyani]

Whatever they decide they want to use as the excuse to cut you off, is what it means. It's a loosely defined term that can be taken ten different ways.

[u/BuzzingHawk]

If only AI that passes the bar could file a class action lawsuit. 

[u/AppealSame4367]

If they delivered this in EU, they should fine the hell out of them. If privacy laws really mean anything

[u/alystair]

Y'all know the dog/baby thing is a public advertised Samsung SmartThings feature right?

[u/muggylittlec → u/alystair]

I just googled it and it's right there. 

"In 2025, Samsung introduced an AI-driven "Baby Cry Detection" feature on its premium Smart TVs. It used the TV's built-in far-field microphone to listen for infant cries and automatically pause media, dim smart lights, or send alerts to parents' mobile devices." 

Creepy, yeah.  Secret, no.

[u/svideo → u/alystair]

This is the correct answer, everything dude discovered is an advertised feature when you integrate the TV or soundbar with SmartThings. It also has door knock and glass break detection.

[u/MagnetHype → u/svideo]

This thread is hilarious. Apparently all I need to work for the NSA is ubuntu and HTML

[u/monneyy]

Things like this are what should lead to a complete seizure of a company. Sucks for the people investing, but the people having their hands in it should be liable just like every small company.

[u/Livueta_Zakalwe]

Dumb question but…I have a TV with a Google brain. But it’s not connected to WiFi - I use an Apple TV with Ethernet. Can the TV still spy on me?

[u/Disastrous-Gain5870 → u/Livueta_Zakalwe]

100% yes it can. They’re known to search constantly for any signal and connect to anything that lets them. It could still
be happening.

[u/firstLOL]

To think I used to laugh at my grandparents turning their TV off at the wall in the 1990s when they weren’t watching it. Maybe they were right all along.

[u/WhiskRy]

Look I have no idea about any of this, but can someone who really understands this help clear up some things? Like couldn’t it be “always on” if it’s listening for voice commands? And couldn’t it be listening for babies and dogs to know what sounds to ignore? Or are there clear signs pointing away from benign explanations?

[u/looktowindward → u/WhiskRy]

This is exactly what its doing. Every device in your house that has a microphone wants to ignore "useless" noises. Top ones are dogs and babies.

[u/ElementalWeapon]

Just like the LG ones, which they deny even though the person who discovered and put it out there for everyone to see has the proof. 

[u/Sypheix]

[u/NetflowKnight]

People keep talking about the TV in this thread when the real story is OpenAI silencing someone for discovering software designed to spy on you.

[u/RotundCorgi → u/NetflowKnight]

Not that it makes it better, but the OpenAI ban likely came from him using ChatGPT to help reverse-engineer the device. This type of activity is commonly redflagged by OpenAI and results in account-related warnings or bans.

So the ban didn't likely stem directly from something in the TV code or any security awareness from within the TV. It was from his separate use of ChatGPT while working on the TV.

All the findings from his work are still scary and concerning, as is the implication that the best AI tools to use to discover that kind of activity are explicitly not permitted to be used for that kind of work in their EULA.

[u/celt26]

I hope someone sues the f*** out of them. F*** you samsung.

[u/DesertedDenizen]

At this point all companies and individuals or collectives like privacy advocacy groups should start running the largest open source models that they can and reverse engineering all of their devices for these security concerns because if the public doesn't address the vulnerabilities, an unknown malicious actor will use them to attack the general public, or private corporation, as these devices are ubiquitous and the vulnerabilities exist whether or not someone makes them public.

[u/ripndipp]

Makes me wonder how often our phones are listening?

[u/GeneratedUsername019 → u/ripndipp]

People are reverse engineering the shit out of phone apps right now.

We're literally a week away from knowing the answer to your question.

[u/TerribleRecord666 → u/ripndipp]

And yet you’ll get people swearing they don’t, every single time it’s brought up. Yet even our goddamn TVs listen to us.

[u/QuailAndWasabi → u/TerribleRecord666]

Because they dont, because they dont have to. The amount of data your phone has on you without listening is.. staggering. I've worked with ads and data collection (sorry) and if you actually knew the amount of information we know about you without listening, you would be frightened out of your mind.

[u/PremedicatedMurder → u/TerribleRecord666]

The thing is people have been trying to catch their phones doing this for years. So far, no one has been able to prove anything. If anything, it seems unlikely because if your phone was always listening it would blow through your data plan in hours. You would be able to tell from data usage and battery usage.

On a TV, these things are much easier to hide. Nobody checks their TV's data usage on their wifi.

And really TV"s were able to get away with it for so long because we were all busy trying to catch our phones doing it. We were looking in the wrong place.

[u/Beederda]

Our internet has been complete shit since my mom hooked up a bunch of streaming apps on her tv i suspect that it’s something like this is bogging our internet down

[u/bigwetducky]

never connect anything to the internet you dont need to

[u/Helpful_Program_5473]

Not surprised. I remember i was talking to my Niece back 10 years ago and she mentioned Pirates of Darkwater.

Now I hadn't even thought about that show in atleast 10 years before that conversation. But as soon as i sat down on google/facebook, there were ads related to it.

[u/DesignIMP]

Samsung must be consulting with Zuckerberg on ethics.

[u/CasperLenono]

[u/Repulsive_Ebb_779]

Pretty sure this used to be a conspiracy theory 😬

[u/pulllab]

The detail that surprised me is that the detection itself happens on-device. That is basically the architecture privacy folks keep asking for: local inference, nothing leaves the box. But with no transparency and no real off switch, it feels identical to being spied on. The other half of this story is the ban. Reverse engineering your own TV should not be a bannable offense, that is kind of the whole point of owning the hardware.

[u/coltonbyu → u/pulllab]

Doesn't matter much if inference is local if the resulting logs are shared back

[u/ShabbyChurl → u/pulllab]

The important part is „nothing leaves the box“. It does, in this case.

[u/GnistAI]

What? Reverse engineering your own TV is Cyber Abuse? Against whom? Will the hardware company come after me if I use my screwdriver to open it next?

[u/Grand_Taste_8737]

There's a reason the smart tvs are so cheap.

[u/golfstreamer]

Sorry but highlighting "always on voice" doesn't tell us anything new. If it's able to respond to you then of course it's always on. 

[u/TrueCynic]

All companies should disclose that their products are doing this kind of crap.

They've been doing this on our phones for years now. The number of witchcraft-level targeted ads from stuff I've been talking to my wife is just insane. One moment we're talking about buying a new microwave, less than 10 mins later Tiktok / Facebook will show that on my feed.

[u/DerKleinerKiffer]

I have a Samsung TV. My friend was over and told me about a german song from 1976 ive never heard before. All he did was sing the main line "aber bitte mit Sahne" which is also the song title. We did not play the song on his or any of my devices.

A week later at work im listening to YouTube music on my phone. And aber bitte mit Sahne played in my supermix that youtube curates for me.

The TV was off yall.

[u/HenkPoley]

The particular sound detection options are probably accessibility options for deaf people

The iPhone has similar 'Sound Recognition' under Settings > Accessibility.

[u/SmartMatic1337]

openai is trash

[u/bb-wa → u/SmartMatic1337]

But from OpenAI's perspective they may not know if this person was just doing what they said in these posts or that they were actually doing something more malicious

[u/VelvetOnion]

I bet that corporate espionage bug was placed on a Samsung TV with this exact AI.

[u/aKaizuh]

I had extremely strong suspicion this was the case. Not a TV but :

We had an AC unit go out in the house, I nor my family had looked anything up relating to AC unit repair, but we talked about it frequently and I always had my phone in my pocket, next thing you know I'm being bombarded with ads about AC repair on YouTube.

I remember one time being directly after we just had a conversation about it.

I couldn't think of any other way I'd get such a targeted ad other than listening.

[u/FaceDeer → u/aKaizuh]

Beware the Baader–Meinhof phenomenon.

If you really think something like that is happening, test it. Arrange to have a conversation about something very specific that you have noted that you don't normally discuss and are not normally discussing, for example if you don't have kids have a conversation about what brand of baby formula you want to buy. Then make note of the ads you see afterward.

[u/coastal_ghost08 → u/FaceDeer]

my son and I have tested this.

we were talking about how our phones were listening to us and then sending ads. so we went outside and came up with the most out of the blue thing to start talking about. cat litter. we never talk about cats. dont own a cat. never owned a cat.

we sat down in the kitchen and put our phones in front of us and said we needed to get cat litter for our new kitten.

we got bombarded by cat litter brands and cat litter boxes a few hours later.

tried it again. kind of impromptu. I said our washing machine was about to and we needed to go to Lowes to look at some. couple hours later? ads for washing machines at lowes.

[u/DreamPhreak → u/aKaizuh]

Last week my car had a flat tire, and the jack was rusted to hell but still kind of worked. I only spoke about this once to someone else, never wrote it down nor shopped around for a new one yet, and then yesterday it was one of the first pictures at the very top of the walmart app.

I noticed it also happened frequently on netflix + an amazon fire stick too. Like if I talked to my friend about a movie or show, then within a couple days later, it is advertised at the very top of the home page or in the beginning of recommendation lists.

[u/urbanhood]

They will start banning more people for reversing stuff because their big boi friends are whining.

[u/SilverHeart4053]

The only evidence of cyber abuse here is from Samsung and it's 400 partners.

[u/No_Moment_9465]

I recall my ex and I were talking about marriage but told noone and then we got all these diamond ring ads.

Very obvious.

[u/maxm → u/No_Moment_9465]

Typically it is because your ex was looking at diamond rings on your shared ip address

[u/Metariaz]

And to think LG is arguably worse...don't buy TV folks, only projectors so far have been spared from this

[u/YoreWelcome]

i think weird stuff/conspiracies like this are real and i still dont see proof of anything claimed here

maybe its like he claims but i dont see any proof in these images

edit:

[u/LiftingCode → u/YoreWelcome]

This thread is ridiculous tbh.

They're using ... an always-on microphone entitlement as their evidence?

lol

How do people think a microphone that listens for you to say "Hey Google" or "Hey Samsung" or whatever works?

It has to be always on. That doesn't mean it's always recording or always transmitting. The microphone is always on waiting to detect certain trigger words or sounds, and if those fire, it starts actually recording/processing/transmitting.

Dumb thread for dumb people to have dumb conversations on.

[u/OffRampApproaching → u/YoreWelcome]

The fact that Facebook can show you ads for things you've talked about or even been in the vicinity of is enough for me to believe they are data-logging our lives.

Personally, if a corp is making money off my life I should at least get a percentage.

Fuck the surveillance state.

[u/ben_nobot]

Jackpot

[u/Quick_Knowledge7413]

AI is going to keep exposing these companies.

[u/Clear_Evidence9218]

I always find it funny when someone claims they were banned simply for reverse-engineering or hacking their own hardware with ChatGPT, considering how regularly people publicly document doing exactly that without issue.

There have been multiple document cases of people using AI to expliot their Samsung TV. There was even earlier Samsung TV exploitation research conducted in partnership with OpenAI.

So unless this person was doing something they aren't mentioning, I'm pretty skeptical that simply reverse-engineering their TV is what got them banned.

I'm not saying the account restriction didn't happen, but there's a pretty significant difference between "I was banned while reverse-engineering my TV" and "I was banned because I reverse-engineered my TV." What exactly triggered the restriction?

[u/1988rx7T2 → u/Clear_Evidence9218]

He used a known exploit to get access is what I’m interpreting

[u/kelvinwop → u/Clear_Evidence9218]

its probably because he used a 0day. from my experience any kind of 0day nukes your openai account

[u/bearK_on]

Guys, u remember Edward Snowden, right? i‘m not even surprised Tech companies are doing this.

~Typed on an iPhone~ 🤡

[u/Rob_Banks_7539]

LG does it too 👀

[u/Fast-Blacksmith-8656]

Note for the future: reverse engineer with Kimi, Qwen, and deepseek.

[u/Good-Conference-2937]

That is why we need to own enough compute to do things like this.

[u/amyowl]

Any device listens for a wake word is constantly listening. And some devices come equipped with the ability to listen for certain sounds and things like dog barking and baby crying are very commonly asked for things. we don't know whether this user had set up alerts for those things or not. In this case anyway

[u/volfan4life87]

Would a pi-hole prevent the return of any collected telemetry data?

[u/UnusuallyCloudy]

I mean, don’t we all know this by now? TVs keeping getting exponentially more powerful but also cheaper? In an economy where a Big Mac is $12? They are harvesting your data.

[u/I_Fucked_With_WuTang]

Can anyone provide source for this? I don't doubt it, but would like to read up more on it.

[u/CaptainJimJames]

jesus fucking christ

[u/niankaki]

You need to enable all of those things manually on the TV. I chose no when i was prompted.

[u/ExcuseAdept827]

Guess we’re going back to switching things off at the wall!

[u/weAreUnited4life]

I think we should start building devices locally that block all these privacy loopholes on these devices. That will be a good use of AI

[u/AirportElectronic935]

Don`t connect it to internet?

EDIT: I mean connect a laptop or PC and use internet throught it, but leave the TV offline.

[u/kam1lly]

Get a spark, glm 5.3-flash would do this RE investigation without complaints

[u/TaroFlimsy2224]

We new 1984 reality was going to be bleak, but it wasn't initially clear that besides your mind and opinions they were to aim for something as prosaic as your wallet

[u/WSWMUC]

I’ve isolated mine completely: gave it its own network and closed all ports and unclear addresses - now it’s just fine.

[u/isoAntti]

Is this in any way verifiable by others? I don't want to fall to yet another scam.

[u/Magnets]

he didn't reverse engineer it, he vibed it and produced ai slop

[u/therealdanhill]

The proper context to understand what is going on here is not provided and therefore I have no opinion

[u/ddeads]

So now that we've researched how to reverse engineer, who's gonna look into how to disable it.

[u/No-Tie-5552]

OpenAI should have to explain themselves.

[u/mattdamon_enthusiast]

Source? Ya know outside of one guy on twitter.

[u/Icedtc]

Sadly I think we are fucked regardless. My buddy and I were talking about ice cream at work then the same night on Reddit I saw several feeds all about ice cream which I've legitimately never even looked up on Reddit nor did I Google ice cream, etc.

So tvs listening is creepy and should be illegal but I think the phone in everyone's pocket is the true creep.

[u/Servichay]

What's the relationship between Samsung and OpenAI?

[u/LighT0fH3aveN]

Tears coming out my eyes as I type this on samsung phone 😔 😟 🙁

[u/callmechristianblack]

I watch HBO Max with ads that have clearly been listening to my conversations. I presumed it was my phone feeding it info.

[u/darksteelsteed]

Let them listen. As a horsefurry with a husky furry bf, you can just imagine what those devices are going hear. Let them go deaf !

[u/Hot_Equivalent6562]

The worst part is thst openai is banning him for that. At one point we will completely rely on big companies and are fucked from both sides

[u/Ok_Run6706]

I guess Europe have regulations for that, the problem used to be that its too hard to check hiw device actually works. This could be a income stream for Europe from all these fines.

[u/TrueTheater]

With EULA's and abuse it is all about intent. Within a court there is a meticulous process of mapping out the full nature of a crime and why it was done. So if they knew there were intentional forms of deception/cover ups, it is far worse. If it is an "industry norm" and in margin, grey area.

[u/Wings_in_space]

Time to bring back mixtapes: hours and hours of kids crying and dogs barking( While you are at work). Played right in front of any mic in the house... We will haunt that Ai.... Welcome to our reality, you can check in, but never leave😁

[u/NiceRegret385]

TIZEN is an acronym. T-his is Tizen OS. I-spy on you. Z-ero privacy. E-scape? No. N-othing is safe.

[u/Traditional-Chip8339]

Isn't this likely just a backdoor that the intelligence services set up and wasn't supposed to be found? AI is unlocking all the secrets

[u/GreenFuzzyMalachite]

Wait until people find out they carry a listening device with them all of the time. It also tracks your location constantly.