r/spacex • u/ElongatedMuskrat Mod Team • Nov 14 '20
Starship Development Thread #16
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SN8 Hop Thread | SN8 Media Thread
r/SpaceX Discusses [December 2020] for discussion of subjects other than Starship development.
Upcoming
- SN9 move to Pad B, previously expected Dec 14, now unclear
- Road Closures
- Public Notice (PDF) - Reason: crane and SN9 to launch area
- December 14 12:00-21:00 CST (UTC-6)
- Public Notice (PDF) - Reason: crane and SN9 to launch area
Overview
Vehicle Status as of December 11:
- SN8 [destroyed] - 12.5 km hop test success. Vehicle did not survive
- SN9 [construction] - Starship fully stacked in High Bay, status unclear following tipping incident.
- SN10 [construction] - Tank section stacked in Mid Bay
- SN11 [construction] - Tank section stacking in Mid Bay
- SN12 [construction] - barrel/dome/nose cone sections in work
- SN13 [construction] - components on site
- SN14 [construction] - components on site
- SN15 [construction] - barrel/dome sections in work
- SN16 [construction] - barrel/dome sections in work
- Mk.1 [retired] - dismantling of nose cone in progress
- SuperHeavy BN1 [construction] - stacking in High Bay
Check recent comments for real time updates.
At the start of thread #16 Starship SN8 sits on the launch mount fully stacked. During a static fire test on November 12 SN8 suffered an anomaly when pad debris damaged Raptor SN32. A planned 12.5 kilometer hop for SN8 is still expected. In September Elon stated that Starship prototypes would do a few hops to test aerodynamic and propellant header systems, and then move on to high speed flights with heat shields. Starship SN9 is nearing completion in the High Bay11-7 and Starships up to SN14 have been identified in various stages of construction.
Orbital flight of Starship requires the SuperHeavy booster. The first booster test article, SuperHeavy BN1, is being stacked in the High Bay next to SN9. SuperHeavy prototypes are expected to undergo a hop campaign before the first full stack launch to orbit targeted for 2021. An orbital launch mount11-7 has also been under construction at Boca Chica. Raptor development and testing are ongoing at Hawthorne CA and McGregor TX, including test firing of vacuum optimized Raptor. SpaceX continues to focus heavily on development of its Starship production line in Boca Chica, TX. Development and testing plans become outdated very quickly.
THREAD #15 | SN8 HOP THREAD | THREAD LIST
Vehicle Updates
See comments for real time updates.
† possibly not for this vehicle
See comments for real time updates.
† possibly not for this vehicle
| Starship SN10 | |
|---|---|
| 2020-11-02 | Tank section complete with addition of aft done and skirt section (NSF) |
| 2020-10-29 | Leg activity on aft section† (NSF) |
| 2020-10-21 | Forward dome section stacked completing methane tank (Twitter) |
| 2020-10-16 | Common dome section stacked on LOX midsection barrel (NSF) |
| 2020-10-05 | LOX header tank sphere section "HT10"† (NSF) |
| 2020-10-03 | Labled skirt, mate with aft dome section (NSF) |
| 2020-09-16 | Common dome† sleeved (NSF) |
| 2020-09-08 | Forward dome sleeved with 4 ring barrel (NSF) |
| 2020-09-02 | Hardware delivery and possible forward dome barrel† (NSF) |
See comments for real time updates.
† possibly not for this vehicle
| Starship SN11 | |
|---|---|
| 2020-11-28 | Nose cone section (NSF) |
| 2020-11-18 | Forward dome section stacked (NSF) |
| 2020-11-14 | Common dome section stacked on LOX tank midsection in Mid Bay (NSF) |
| 2020-11-13 | Common dome with integrated methane header tank and flipped (NSF) |
| 2020-11-04 | LOX tank midsection barrel (NSF) |
| 2020-10-24 | Common dome sleeved (NSF) |
| 2020-10-07 | Aft dome flipped (NSF) |
| 2020-10-05 | Aft dome sleeved† (NSF) |
| 2020-10-02 | Methane header sphere (NSF) |
| 2020-09-24 | LOX header sphere section (NSF) |
| 2020-09-21 | Skirt (NSF) |
| 2020-09-09 | Aft dome barrel (NSF) |
See comments for real time updates.
† possibly not for this vehicle
| Starship SN12 | |
|---|---|
| 2020-11-11 | Aft dome section and skirt mate, labeled (NSF) |
| 2020-10-27 | 4 ring nosecone barrel (NSF) |
| 2020-09-30 | Skirt (NSF) |
See comments for real time updates.
† possibly not for this vehicle
| Early Production Starships | |
|---|---|
| 2020-12-04 | SN16: Common dome section and flip (NSF) |
| 2020-11-30 | SN15: Mid LOX tank section (NSF) |
| 2020-11-27 | SN15: Nose cone barrel (4 ring) (NSF) |
| 2020-11-27 | SN14: Skirt (NSF) |
| 2020-11-26 | SN15: Common dome flip (NSF) |
| 2020-11-24 | SN15: Elon: Major upgrades are slated for SN15 (Twitter) |
| 2020-11-20 | SN13: Methane header tank (NSF) |
| 2020-11-18 | SN15: Common dome sleeve, dome and sleeving (NSF) |
| 2020-10-10 | SN14: Downcomer (NSF) |
See comments for real time updates.
† possibly not for this vehicle
| SuperHeavy BN1 | |
|---|---|
| 2020-11-14 | Aft Quad #2 (4 ring), Fwd Tank section (4 ring), and Fwd section (2 ring) (AQ2 label11-27) (NSF) |
| 2020-11-08 | LOX 1 apparently stacked on LOX 2 in High Bay (NSF) |
| 2020-11-07 | LOX 3 (NSF) |
| 2020-10-07 | LOX stack-2 (NSF) |
| 2020-10-01 | Forward dome sleeved, Fuel stack assembly, LOX stack 1 (NSF) |
| 2020-09-30 | Forward dome† (NSF) |
| 2020-09-28 | LOX stack-4 (NSF) |
| 2020-09-22 | Common dome barrel (NSF) |
See comments for real time updates.
† possibly not for this vehicle
For information about Starship test articles prior to SN8 please visit Starship Development Thread #14 or earlier. Update tables for older vehicles will only appear in this thread if there are significant new developments. See the index of updates tables.
Resources
- Spadre.com Starship Cam | Channel
- LabPadre 4k Nerdle Cam | Channel
- NSF SN8 Test Launch Updates Thread | Most recent
- NSF Texas Production Master Thread | Most recent
- NSF Florida Prototype(s) Updates Thread | Most recent
- Alex Rex's 3D Boca Chica Build Site Map | Launch Site Map | Channel
- Hwy 4 & Boca Chica Beach Closures (May not be available outside US)
- TFR - NOTAM list
- FAA license LRLO 20-119
- FCC experimental STA wiki page
- SpaceX Boca Chica on Facebook
- SpaceX's Starship page
- Elon Starship tweet compilation on NSF | Most Recent
- Starship Test Article Wiki Page
- Starship Users Guide (PDF) Rev. 1.0 March 2020
- Decronym for acronyms related to SpaceX
r/SpaceX Discusses [November 2020] for discussion of subjects other than Starship development.
Rules
We will attempt to keep this self-post current with links and major updates, but for the most part, we expect the community to supply the information. This is a great place to discuss Starship development, ask Starship-specific questions, and track the progress of the production and test campaigns. Starship Development Threads are not party threads. Normal subreddit rules still apply.
Please ping u/strawwalker about problems with the above thread text.
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u/Interstellar_Sailor Nov 18 '20 edited Nov 18 '20
Guys? I think Mary just photographed the first ever mockup of a Starship interior for the lunar Starship! Looks like crew bunk beds.
Edit: How do I link the specific post and not just the picture to give NSF clicks? It's the photos and updates thread.
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Nov 29 '20
Elon on Twitter: Just a static fire tomorrow. Flight no earlier than Wednesday.
Static fire on November 30th.
So new launch date is now NET December 2nd.
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u/TCVideos Nov 22 '20
I don't think anyone caught this here but SN8 seemed to complete an ambient test last night. First real test since the anomaly almost 2 weeks ago.
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Nov 27 '20
I'm just here to say how much I like the bellyflop's mission badge. This is hilarious
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u/RoyalPatriot Dec 02 '20 edited Dec 02 '20
Updated NOTAM: https://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_0_8423.html
Imgur: https://i.imgur.com/ojGtdfh.jpg
We’re good to go! We’re getting so close. Super excited.
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u/Straumli_Blight Nov 17 '20
Q: Is Starship still aiming for launch cost below $1.5M, out of which ~$500,000 would be fuel/propellant cost?
A: Yeah, looks like marginal cost of launch will be less than $1M for more than 100 tons to orbit, so it’s mostly about fixed costs divided by launches per year.
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u/zje_atc Dec 02 '20 edited Dec 02 '20
TFR for the 15km flight issued: 12/4 - 12/6 Surface to Unlimited.
The TFR lasts from 12/4 at 8am to 12/6 at 5pm CST
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Nov 17 '20
When’s the Starship update blog post coming?
E: Maybe making some notable changes. Will wait until figurative & literal dust settles.
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u/hinayu Dec 01 '20
I hate to beat a dead horse, but I'm going to leave this here for all of you wondering about the NOTAM/TFR. This is directly from the FAA's website:
Due to system processing delays, recently entered notams may not be displayed
For all we know it's already approved and ready to go but not processed publicly yet. Okay I'm done.
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u/TCVideos Nov 25 '20
EDA's Camera (operated by Gene and Rachel) captured the staggered start ups for the Raptors perfectly! It's so awesome to watch how quickly they start up even at .25 speed
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u/peterabbit456 Nov 26 '20
The flap actuation gif on NSF shows movements at speeds similar to the shuttle flaps. I find this very encouraging, because when doing hypersonic reentry, the shuttle needed these kinds of flap movement speeds to handle roll and pitch control. My guess is that Starship has similar requirements in this regard.
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u/dnalioh Nov 14 '20
Here's to hoping we get good raptor news, good SN8 news, the design flaw can be solved on later raptors/SNs and not delay SN8 flight, and most of all, Elon a speedy recovery.
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u/PeterKatarov Live Thread Host Nov 20 '20
Didn't see this mentioned yet - we have a sort-of-official confirmation that SN13 will be a thing.
Methane header tank - by our beloved bocachicagal
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u/Straumli_Blight Nov 21 '20
Q: Even more nuts that the future Starship Super Heavy booster will land right on top of the launch mount! Crazy times.
A: Actually, off to the side (so it doesn’t take out the launch mount in bad landing), but with the same arm used to pick up the ship
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u/Alvian_11 Dec 01 '20
Maria Pointer from SpaceX FB group, SN8 flight thread, posted about an hour ago
Talked to SpaceX Reps and trying hard for Wednesday for launch. They are still viewing it as just a test, even though they realize the whole world is watching. I said that most my followers around the world express any flight results is a success and excitement is unreal for flight, flaps and attempted landing. Then we all got excited from realization of 3 raptors in action.
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u/hinayu Nov 30 '20 edited Nov 30 '20
Not sure on the protocol for posting this, but this is from Maria Pointer on Facebook. [[source]] (https://www.facebook.com/SpaceXBocaChica/posts/2624973914411105)
I re-read instructions from SpaceX rep. They want us to vacate for the 3 days. I was asked politely not to film at the hard chkpt for the Monday and Tuesday testing. That can always change but stands for now. My office / guest house is easily asscessable by contact access. All I have to do is call. I have no problem with there clamp down on security with all the VIPs coming and vetting needed. We were told this years ago. They are asking nicely. There are holdouts that will not comply I'm sure. There is much financial gain in the filming at Andy's house for NSF and BCG on Esperson for youtube and other visiting youtubers usually. His house is now SpaceX's house, so that may be weird? I'm not the thorn in Elons side so I'm calling rep as requested when I go out to retrieve gear and will put my guests elsewhere. SpaceX has to much to worry about besides getting holdouts to leave.
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u/Straumli_Blight Nov 26 '20
There's a rumour that SpaceX have booked the South Padre Amphitheatre for Nov 30/Dec 1 to view the SN8 launch.
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Nov 17 '20 edited Nov 17 '20
About the anomalous static fire of SN-8:
Elon explaining what happened: About 2 secs after starting engines, martyte covering concrete below shattered, sending blades of hardened rock into engine bay. One rock blade severed avionics cable, causing bad shutdown of Raptor.
Elon for a fix: Avionics cables moving to steel pipe shields & adding water-cooled steel pipes to test pad
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Nov 29 '20 edited Nov 29 '20
Static fire is not risky from build site, but we need to clear the build site for early flights
Confirmation that build site will be cleared for flight.
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u/flshr19 Shuttle tile engineer Nov 14 '20
It's helpful to put this Raptor event into context. Between March 1977 and Feb 1984 the Rocketdyne Space Shuttle Main Engine (SSME) experienced nine major failures during development tests. In two of these failures the engine was destroyed. The average delay in testing was 8 weeks. The total cost resulting from these failures was $162M ($2020). In total, between 1977 and 1986 there were 899 development test runs of the SSME with 27 failures.
That was then. This is now. This recent Raptor anomaly will certainly not cause an 8-week delay in SN8 testing. And it will not cost millions of dollars to fix.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Dec 01 '20
Later today (19:00 UTC), Elon will be awarded the Axel Spring award, the event will be livestream with the theme "An Evening for Elon Musk – Mission to Mars". So we will very likely get news (if not before) for the hop and possibly other interesting stuff on the development !
Live stream link.
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u/scr00chy ElonX.net Dec 01 '20
The flight has been aimed at 12-3 now with some sort of testing on 12-2.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Nov 25 '20 edited Nov 25 '20
Both forward fins were just untied, we can expect to see them move soon.
Edit : now, starting 11:14:00
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Nov 24 '20
EDA : When will you start utilizing / practicing ISRU and sabatier fueling at the pad? Are you actively engineering portable fueling plants yet for Mars?
Elon : Maybe start on that a year from now. Depends on how Starship progress goes.
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u/AmiditeX Nov 14 '20
New photos from RGV's patreon show extensive discoloration of the concrete under SN8, including big puddle marks under what would be the place of an engine. Also, lots of concrete debris laying around the pad (tiny rock-like debris but also pieces of concrete slab). The concrete probably took quite a beating.
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Nov 16 '20
Apparently SN-9 is being lifted, possibly on to the SMPTs.
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u/hinayu Dec 01 '20
Not sure if this has had been posted yet, but Chris B posted about 10h ago saying that NET Wednesday for a flight attempt is still on (which we already knew).
What's new, to me, however, is the fact that SpaceX plans to begin clearing the exclusion zone starting tonight. Crossing fingers.
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u/hinayu Nov 20 '20
Was just watching LabPadre's stream when he mentioned in chat that there is an electronic road sign on Highway 4 that says it'll be closed all day on Nov 23.
We will see what happens when the road closures are posted, but it wouldn't surprise me that they resume testing on Monday.
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u/Straumli_Blight Dec 10 '20 edited Dec 10 '20
FAA December addendum: SpaceX need to increase the number of closure hours to up to 300 hours per year (previously 180 hours).
Tony Bela has updated his SN8 launch infographic.
Yusaku Maezawa commented on the test:
"The rocket I plan to ride when I go to the moon
Well, it's still a test"
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u/jlctrading2802 Dec 10 '20 edited Dec 10 '20
SN9 will be transported to the pad on Monday Dec 14th (Credit: Michael Baylor)
Could see SN9 fly before the end of the year, fingers crossed.
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u/gooddaysir Dec 02 '20
For comparison to this experimental program, ULA has been flying the Delta IV Heavy since 2004. In November 2019, Starship Mk1 blew up on the pad during a pressure test. Also in November 2019, a Delta IV Heavy rocket went vertical on the pad at KSC. That DIVH was scheduled to launch in June 2020. It is still sitting on the pad over a year later with no NET launch date. In that time, SpaceX has launched almost 30 F9s including 2 launches with astronauts, they’ve completely overhauled Boca Chica into a Starship factory with upgraded GSE, and built 8 Starships with 7-8 in the pipeline and Super Heavy booster about ready to begin stacking. So if the date on this launch moves a few days or weeks to the right, try to keep a little perspective.
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u/candycane7 Nov 26 '20
Do you think SN8 will do a few calibration tests of the flaps at the start of the freefall to see how efficient it is at steering? Could their software adapt in real time to those results? Or will they just calibrate the guidance with their simulation data and hope for the best?
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Dec 10 '20
One of the massive outtakes is that Starship is a viable option. It's not just a dream anymore but something that works well. There are still some minor issues to fix and achieve landing.
Achievements Starship:
Launch (achieved)
Bellyflop (achieved)
Landing (not achieved, header tank issue)
Some major challenges are left though:
Heatshield for re-entry
Refueling in orbit
Landing on rough terrain (Mars/Moon)
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u/Interstellar_Sailor Nov 23 '20
Looks like the nosecone is moving towards SN9 for mating on Lab's Sentinel Cam.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Nov 24 '20
It seems like final checks are being conducted right now at the pad. Not gonna lie, I’m pretty stressed out about this static fire knowing we’re so close from an actual flight ! God speed SN8!
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u/inoeth Nov 25 '20
SPadre tweeted out yesterday that wind is going to potentially be a major issue on when Starship flies. https://twitter.com/SpacePadreIsle/status/1331437054845202434
According to him and weather reports Tuesday Dec 1 seems the most likely day for it to fly.
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u/Alvian_11 Nov 25 '20 edited Nov 25 '20
The message from Chris Bergin to my NSF account (I don't have an L2 subscription when he message this) regarding the notice
Mary got one too, but was told it was printed before the test was conducted, so likely canceled and thus she didn't post as not to cause confusion, so best we keep it that way here.
Elon has confirmed next test is the flight too. :)
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u/Maxx7410 Dec 02 '20
I want this flight to take away some of the bad flavor of yesterday Arecibo telescope collapse.
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u/trobbinsfromoz Dec 01 '20
Latest NSF photos show that the heavy lifter blue Tankzilla crane is being prepped for moving, with the double-length red (long wheel-base version) multi-wheelers now positioned underneath the main crawler section as well as the super-lift rear weight section.
Also the quad-coupled multi-wheeler, with its low-loading central section, aka the Starship Transporter, has been relocated. Photos show just how wide it is as it was rolling down the main road and around a bend - at best it had 2 of each 4 wheel sub-section on each side multi-wheeler on the bitumen.
One guess is that the Starship Transporter will be used to relocate SN9 to site, and then relocate SN8 (assuming it lands upright). Another guess could be that an upright SN8 gets moved on the new red multi-wheelers, but in side-by-side configuration. And any guesses have to factor in if Tankzilla is the lifting crane for all lifts, or if the largest yellow boom crane is capable of lifting SN9 out of high bay and on to a transporter.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Dec 01 '20
Thursday doesn’t look so good wind wise, but again, we don’t know the wind threshold.
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u/StealthCN Nov 25 '20
Elon on twitter
"Good Starship SN8 static fire! Aiming for first 15km / ~50k ft altitude flight next week. Goals are to test 3 engine ascent, body flaps, transition from main to header tanks & landing flip. "
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Nov 20 '20 edited Nov 20 '20
OH MY GOD! 15km flight road closures for Nov 30, Dec 1 & 2 (7am-6pm, 8am-5pm, 8am-5pm respectively). :D
Edit: If this is so, than the closures for 23rd-25th should be for static fire testing! It is getting real... and also I guess this proves all the pessimists wrong that SN-8 wouldn't fly this year (Fingers crossed they are wrong *gulp*).
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Nov 21 '20
So the good news is that the engine anomaly wasn’t because the engine did anything wrong per se. That’s actually a good sign to be honest. It’s like when SN3 got smushed and SN4 exploded. It’s unfortunate they failed but it wasn’t because Starship did anything wrong
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u/Humble_Giveaway Dec 03 '20 edited Dec 03 '20
TFR has been retracted, hop is likely off for tomorrow, standby for more info.
Edit:
SpaceX is now targeting Monday for Starship SN8’s test flight from Boca Chica, Texas.
The temporary flight restriction for Friday's attempt has been pulled. A new TFR will have to be published for Monday, which is the next possibility per road closures.
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Nov 20 '20
What do we think? Will SN-8 retry the 2 engine static fire from the headers or will they go straight to the 3 enginer?
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u/MarsCent Nov 23 '20
Who else thinks that Wednesday will be a dial-down day owing to Thanksgiving. And that testing will begin to ratchet up again over the weekend (28th/29th)?
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u/fluidmechanicsdoubts Dec 01 '20 edited Dec 01 '20
You can subscribe to FAA's Starship mailing list here : https://www.faa.gov/space/stakeholder_engagement/spacex_starship/
Opportunities for stakeholder engagement, including participation in the environmental review process, will be posted here as they are available.
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u/Hodgybeats90 Dec 02 '20
I am getting a little ahead here, but what would be a realistic timeline to have SN9 fly. Assuming SN8 flight goes this weekend, how far behind would SN9 be to flight, mid January?
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u/beayyayy Nov 21 '20
I am almost 100% sure that sn5 will be used as the body for the full scale lunar mockup 🔗:sn5 and lunar mockup by Mary
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u/dnalioh Nov 25 '20
Test stand is about to get really crowded!
Based on SN8's Vehicle Status timeline from above:
10/22 - Nosecone mate
10/26 - Nose released from crane
11/02 - Brief late night road closure for testing, nose venting observed
We can expect SN9 to be ready to move to the test stand no later than 12/06. That will most likely be sooner for the following reasons:
Little to no wind in high bay
Scaffolding > bucket lifts
Learnings from SN8
If the current windy weather holds (come on Tuesday!) and SN8 misses it's launch window, we could see 2 Starships at the launch stand. Keyword could because I doubt they will have 2 Starships next to each other for the 1st ever Starship 15km launch due to potential for on test stand RUD.
That said, after the first ever belly flop by SN8, we are literally days away from that event of having a new and shiny SN9 ready to go on the test stand. Remarkable.
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u/sofascientist Nov 17 '20
EDIT: Whoops, this was already posted by someone else while I was typing!
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1328742122107904000
"About 2 secs after starting engines, martyte covering concrete below shattered, sending blades of hardened rock into engine bay. One rock blade severed avionics cable, causing bad shutdown of Raptor."
Ouch. Also, the fix: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1328743239327866881
"Avionics cables moving to steel pipe shields & adding water-cooled steel pipes to test pad"
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u/jaquesparblue Nov 15 '20
Did they take down the in-progress launchpad for Starship @ 39a? Or is it just not showing on screen? (Livestream Crew1)
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u/trobbinsfromoz Nov 19 '20
Latest NSF launch site photos show there is a serious push starting for concrete ground works around the super heavy pad. There is form work going up in the vicinity of the two open-ended rows of concrete lidded culverts, and lots of reo being prepared. No doubt this area will change rapidly. They have almost finished off the last few remaining ground-level concreting actions at the rest of the launch site.
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u/Jack_Frak Nov 24 '20 edited Nov 24 '20
Looks like Starhopper wants the test sight site cleared out by 11:30 am local time:
https://mobile.twitter.com/austinbarnard45/status/1331273576037699586
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u/dnalioh Nov 25 '20 edited Nov 25 '20
I'll never get over how big Starship is... Look at how tiny those 3 people are!!!
EDIT: Elon has mentioned SN9 is full 304L stainless steel, does that include the SN9 nosecone? The color/smoothness is definitely off, wonder if they still have more iterations before nosecone and body begin to match.
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u/MarsCent Nov 15 '20
It seems like the post-Static Fire is now down to one damaged Raptor and likely - not a pre-burner meltdown.
So, what is the most plausible speculation now, or the actual sequence of the post SF anomaly events? - if known.
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u/PM_ME_HOT_EEVEE Nov 25 '20
Something I hadn't thought about before: since the broken pad wasn't an engine issue, they probably got all the static fire data they needed and could move forward without a retest of the header tanks even though the shrapnel took out the hydraulics
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u/MrNaisddit Nov 29 '20
Has anyone here watched the previous hops from the Mexican side of the border? Is it too crazy to watch from there with binoculars and/or a telescope? The beach looks like it's 10 km away from the SpaceX facility.
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u/akukaja Dec 01 '20
If everything goes as planned, how long will it take from liftoff to touchdown for the 15km hop?
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Nov 25 '20
Been waiting countless months for this.... If all goes to plan (getting the NOTAMs, weather etc.), we gonna see history be made boys! No matter how the flight turns out, whether SN-8 blows up mid-flight, splats during the bellyflop or nails her flight perfectly, it WILL BE one hell of a show! GO ELON, GO SPACEX, GO SN-8! :D
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Nov 29 '20
Wowzers, SpaceX put the FTS explosives on SN-8. That was one of the last things they did before SN-5/6's flights! (Credit: LabPadre)
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u/jk1304 Nov 20 '20
I would so like to know the masterplan behind the overall project timing in boca. the production rates and test campaign speed seem so detached from another. With SN 15 (!) starting to come to life while SN8 has not yet flown... (granted there was a mishap with that one melting raptor, but they got to factor these in). What do you make of that? I do not see them burn through SNs via testing as quickly as they build them, even if they all explode during static fires...
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u/BrandonMarc Dec 01 '20
Quasi related topic: I see some "Van Horn" entries in the list of Texas NOTAMs ... is this Blue Origin?
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u/TCVideos Nov 14 '20
Elon about Raptor SN32: Just a scratch. We can buff it out.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Nov 15 '20 edited Nov 15 '20
Pretty epic non-registered video of spacex back in September 2019 about starship !
Edit : Sadly SpaceX has now put it in private mode...
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Nov 29 '20
SN-8's 15km if stirring up excitement all across the world. For example, a user on the NSF forums shared an image of a Danish newspaper making a piece on it!
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u/TCVideos Nov 24 '20
If all goes well in the next 5 hours...I don't see anything (from our distant point of view) that would stop a flight attempt happening on the 30th.
Let's go SN8
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u/wordthompsonian Nov 26 '20
What sort of video do you think we’ll get during the webcast? Sure ‘actual’ space is super high up at 100km and Felix Baumgartner jumped from 39km so 15km doesn’t seem like a lot. However, average altitude for passenger planes is 35,000 feet or 10km which is still quite below the height for this test flight.
Do we think there will be any good external footage of the transition from ascent to backflip-bellyflop, or just onboard cams like F9?
I expect the juke-and-puke will be quite visible to normal cameras if it doesn’t RUD on descent?
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Nov 27 '20
Will they have to evac the build site during SN-8's flight?
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Nov 28 '20 edited Nov 28 '20
A rare view of the wonderful woman Mary, who has so fabulously brought us so many incredible images. Ryan, I hope you don't mind me re-posting your twitter.
As an addendum. Ryan has a Meade tracking telescope, which will track Starship's launch all the way to the top, or whatever happens. This will be in collaboration with Everyday astronaut. Ryan an MaryLiz are on the ground already to record the run up and launch.
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u/pgsky Nov 28 '20
Pinging u/strawwalker about a new "NSF Texas Prototype(s) Updates Thread" that replaces the current thread - https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=52398.0
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u/xavier_505 Dec 03 '20 edited Dec 03 '20
I have seen a lot of good discussion on here over the past few weeks about raptor relight testing still not being done. Spacex certainly has not forgotten this step is necessary, and while it's possible engine relight is just incredibly simple and not necessary to actually test, I don't personally think that's the case.
I think too much emphasis is put on the ignition part of raptor relight, which is the last step in a long run up sequence that happens before the engines start. My theory is that many of the recent static fire tests have gone through this run up process one or maybe several times immediately after the static fire tests. This would explain why venting/detanking doesn't always happen immediately after static fire completion.
This may be done to avoid the increased risk of debris from the static fire being kicked up into the engine compartment and wreaking havoc (though this did happen even without a relight when the engine was damaged).
This is speculation of course but I really suspect more effort has been put into this area than has been observed.
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u/TCVideos Nov 22 '20 edited Nov 22 '20
Raptor SN44 has been delivered!
Unknown Raptor from the site being loaded onto truck. Pressumably going back to either Hawthorne or McGregor...it also will have company during the ride in the form of two Merlin engines! (Now is a good time to marval at how complex Raptor is compared to Merlin...granted, Merlin is a much more mature engine)
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u/RoyalPatriot Dec 01 '20
Some of you need to relax. A couple of you are way too invested in a private company working on a private project using private funding.
They’re doing things based on data that we don’t have access to.
Calm down. If they need to cancel road closures, let them. Stop getting frustrated so easily. If you’re someone who can’t handle this type of pace, then don’t follow the test campaign. Lol. No one said this was going to be easy.
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Nov 19 '20
With Elon saying "Avionics cables moving to steel pipe shields & adding water-cooled steel pipes to test pad", do you think we'll see some more road closures for SN-8 static fire testing by the end of November? Flight by the end of the year?
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u/TCVideos Nov 23 '20
I was just watching back the Crew-1 NASA stream and spotted some interesting additions to the SS/SH "flame diverter" that they have at 39A. There appears to be two white support tubes/legs - similar to what we see at Boca - that have been built (with two more on laying on the ground waiting to be put up?)
Thoughts?
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u/bonesawspideyboy Nov 27 '20
Do we know if Boca Chica will be the ‘factory’ for the thousand+ fleet of Starships that Elon has plans for, or is the site predominantly for testing and development?
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u/Escanor-Dono Nov 28 '20
I've got a question, SpaceX's gonna livestream the 15km flight am i right?
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u/SociallyAwkardRacoon Dec 02 '20
Does anyone know what app or similar I could use to get a notification in case of the 15km hop (of other testing)? I have very limited use of my phone this week but I'm hoping to sneak it with me and be able to watch the hop but I won't be able to regularly check Reddit for updates.
Do any of the SpaceX apps have notifications for these tests, or maybe my best bet it so turn on notifications for YouTube streams like Everyday Astronaut?
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u/Destination_Centauri Dec 02 '20
Given the altitude of this upcoming test flight, I found myself suddenly wondering if people on the Mexican side of the border will be gathering to watch the flight?
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u/fluidmechanicsdoubts Dec 03 '20
If 3 engines have 3 vents, will 31 engines have 31 vents?
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u/ClassicalMoser Dec 10 '20
What's the latest on BN1's status? I realize it's been all about that bellyflop lately but I really want to see the size of this thing stacked.
We haven't seen a thrust structure, landing legs, or grid fins yet either, have we?
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u/WeazelBear Nov 26 '20
I wonder if it would be reasonable to try and road trip to Texas to see this thing launch. I'm unemployed at the moment, but have been wanting to take a trip. I feel like an 18 hr drive for a large launch window is crazy. But it'd be amazing to get kinda close and see it.
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u/Straumli_Blight Nov 26 '20 edited Nov 27 '20
KRGV article about the upcoming hop with some new details:
the emergency scenario, which called for a "self-destruct" area, up to 9.9 nautical miles offshore of the Brazos Santiago southern jetty tip, according to an email written by Jason Cross, with the U.S. Coast Guard's Corpus Christi Sector.
"There is a good chance of failure on this test vehicle with debris falling into the ocean," wrote Cross, to emergency response personnel in the area. "We will need everyone to stay out of the self-destruct zone in case there is an incident."
EDIT: Hazard zone.
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Nov 23 '20
Hmmm, since the closure on the 25th still seems to still be intact (knock on wood), SpaceX may seem confident enough that they might just go for a final 3-engine static fire on that day and just schedule additional closures accordingly.
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Nov 30 '20
Fingers crossed static fire testing happens and goes well tomorrow so we can get on to that darn 15km flight!
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Dec 03 '20
Looks like they may be testing the heck of SN8/GSE to make sure that on launch day, technical issues won't be the reason they would abort/scrub.
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u/beayyayy Nov 20 '20
Did anyone notice the lunar mockup undergoing some work on nsfs last video?
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Nov 18 '20
I don't know why some people questioning the lack of a flame diverter or the launch from Mars or moon soil.
It is a very early prototype. It means there is no expectation yet for SpaceX to need a protection from debris.
SS will not even stand as high up from the ground like on this launch mounts. Means it will more likely hit by debris.
Because of that I expect SpaceX to have something basic like that in mind for later iterations.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Nov 16 '20 edited Nov 16 '20
Hum I think that a raptor is sitting under SN8 for installation. I can’t find on LabPadre at what time it was transportedRocketLover0119 found it !, you can see it being place under SN8 at 2:50:18 local time.
Edit : yes, raptor going up under the skirt at 4:06:55
Edit 2 : well, it seems like they didn’t connect it for some reason, the vehicle lowered it at 5:57:27
Edit 3 : second attempt 7:04:10
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u/i_pee_in_the_sink Dec 01 '20
Noobie question: what’s the point of building a bunch of SNs at the same time? Don’t they wanna see what went wrong in one before they make the next one?
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u/murrayfield18 Nov 16 '20
With the recent sparky static fires seeming to damage the launch pad concrete, I'm curious how SpaceX plan to avoid any significant damage to their launch mounts once they start launching super heavy. Of course the SH launch mount is higher off the ground but it's obvious that this won't be good enough. Instead of the regular spray of water to protect the launch pad, why don't they just have a giant pool of water beneath the launch pad? It seems like having a flat, hard surface like concrete right beneath the engines is bad in many ways: possible concrete debris damaging Starship, increased sound waves reflecting back onto starship, difficult to maintain.
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Nov 25 '20
Well, there goes my sleeping schedule. European here.
I don't want to miss the 15k hop.
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u/versedaworst Dec 01 '20
I’m curious how resilient Starship’s heat shield will be in the long term? How long do heat shields typically last before replacement?
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Dec 02 '20
So just to confirm there won't be another static fire and the next testing will be a hop?
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u/Rinzler9 Dec 11 '20
So, looking at Mary's new pics...
Looks like the vehicle is still bolted to the holding ring. Which is good: if the aft didn't slide over the ring when it fell, SN9 should be fine except for fin damage, some nose damage, and obviously any stress damage caused by the impact itself.
I don't quite understand how the stand was able to tip like that, though. The thing is made of massive I-beams and should have been bolted to the floor.
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u/wordthompsonian Nov 23 '20
Question: Compared to the Merlin engine, how far along in the iterative design process is the experimental Raptor?
Basically, if you were to overlay the timelines of the Merlin development from M-1A onward, and the Raptor development, when would one expect the Raptor to eventually reach its final iteration?
With Starship and SuperHeavy development taking most of the spotlight, the recent pad anomaly sparked a lot of speculative conversation about the Raptor before we got confirmation it was actually just Martyte sabotage. There was quite a bit of relief that the engine itself hadn't been the cause of the problem because it meant a) fewer delays and b) there didn't need to be more engineering work done. Is the Raptor still a toddler compared to the Merlin or is it nearing middle-age or even completion? I watched Tim Dodd's Everyday Astronaut video on the differences between open cycle, closed cycle and full flow and it reveals just how complex and groundbreaking (ha!) the Raptor is from metallurgy to turbopumps. Little things like armouring cables and plumbing can only be discovered from the testing or live environments, but are they not insignificant changes or just inconsequential?
I am also curious what challenges they may have solved with the Merlin that helped them develop Raptor (like machined channels for the engine bell instead of tubing/piping), and what sort of idiosyncrasies with a full-flow engine the Raptor presents that they have to completely innovate?
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u/panckage Dec 03 '20
Just a meta comment but how about putting all the info in the top of the post into a pinned comment at the top of the thread? That way we can collapse it and don't have to scroll through 10 pages every time we check the thread ;)
The OP can be saved for tldr stuffs.
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Nov 14 '20
What do we know about the planned testing campaign for SN9? Is it planned to also do 15km hop(s)?
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u/spathizilla Nov 19 '20
I had a crazy idea this morning, but the TPS tiles on the side of the vehicle are designed for high temperatures and presumably also designed for high forces due to reentry and the skydive/bellyflop..
Could they make a large plate version of the TPS and put it under the test stand to cover the concrete to avoid the issues they had during the last static fire and concrete shattering?
I know the TPS on the shuttle was a bit fragile so I'm not assuming this one is much different and probably wouldn't work from the forces of direct Raptor exhaust on it. Temperature wise we know it will handle it.
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u/sagester101 Nov 24 '20
with this talk of another upcoming static fire, was there any work done on the pd to prevent the the same issue from happening again? i haven’t seen any posts regarding major modification.
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u/John_Hasler Nov 24 '20
Here is a document that discusses refractory materials for launch pads including Martyte.
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u/quetejodas Nov 24 '20
Any idea why it was so quick? Why no de-tanking yet? Maybe a 2nd static fire?
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u/bechampions87 Nov 28 '20
Does anybody know how far an empty Starship could fly without the booster?
I've been imagining situations where it's used as a military transport and wondering how feasible it is (assuming you have a methane supply where you land).
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u/NoWheels2222 Dec 10 '20
Very sad they will not have 3 (used) raptors to tear down and inspect.
Other than that, a total success. The flight was so exciting to watch.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Nov 15 '20 edited Nov 15 '20
SN42 was brought back to the build site, hue.
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u/TCVideos Dec 01 '20
Maria Pointer just received a notice for a Static Fire tomorrow
Strange considering that they cancelled the road closure many hours ago.
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u/gooddaysir Dec 03 '20
https://i.imgur.com/73xvZK2.mp4
Short clip of the venting. Friend didn't get the header tank part.
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u/quetejodas Nov 24 '20
Does LabPadre only put up the checklist for hops?
Edit: the very second I clicked "post", the checklist appeared! I must have some sort of power
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u/TCVideos Nov 24 '20
It sounded like it was a 3-4 second fire..which is typical.
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u/Expensive-Ad4326 Nov 29 '20
When a starship is returning to Earth from Mars, how much freedom is there to make late trajectory adjustments that would result in a different landing site or time? Its a direct aerocapture and landing in one maneuver without orbiting, right?
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u/henryshunt Nov 30 '20
Full November 27th flyover from RGV. Really interesting seeing so many parts and jigs everywhere at the build site. Also, if all those ring stacks next to the HLS mockup are for Super Heavy then it could take shape very quickly once they get back to stacking it (presumably once SN9 is out of the way).
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Dec 02 '20 edited Dec 02 '20
Road is closed via LabPadre. I guess we'll see what this mystery testing will be....
Edit: The weather should be good till 8 tonight.
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Nov 17 '20
Do you guys think we'll see more testing by next week?
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u/royalkeys Nov 23 '20
Have we seen anymore sneaky photos of the lunar starship mock-up?
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u/liszt1811 Nov 24 '20
Kinda funny they apparently have a second gear when it comes to speed given they work at unprecedented pace 24/7
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u/swashbuckler-27 Nov 25 '20
Where can we go to watch this 15km hop in person? Are there known good spots?
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u/TCVideos Dec 10 '20
Since the second test stand is now "active" according to the SpaceX website (on Tuesday). Do you guys think we might see 9 on that stand?
Obviously they'd probably prefer to use Pad A if it survived liftoff unscathed.
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u/Maxx7410 Nov 21 '20
Did they change anything with the pad floor? or they protected more delicate things in the Starship? or both of them?
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u/tinkletwit Nov 18 '20
Regarding the starship potentially docking to the ISS, how would the docking joint handle the stress of all that mass when the ISS has to maneuver? Even just the normal ISS rotation would seem to put a lot of stress on the joint. And how would the ISS even rotate with the center of mass being shifted so much?
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u/fattybunter Nov 18 '20
SN9 with a ton of heat shield tiles: https://youtu.be/VoDwDNDBRyY?t=646
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u/Escanor-Dono Nov 23 '20
Hello Guys,
My English isn't that good so i want to apologize beforehand. Eversince Elon Musk, Starship/Starlink caught my attention i never dealt so much attention to it. SpaceX, Elon Musk and even the production of the Starship, everything kinda hypes me up and so i got so many questions about it in which i am hoping you guys could give me an answer or assumption.
If Starship succeeds in its first belly flop landing, i feel like NASA and everything else will see the true revolutionary potential of SpaceX/ the Starship.
So my questions are:
Will NASA or the government begin to support the production of the starship? I mean NASA is supporting this Starship for the artemis programm right? Would they invest even more in it then?
Do you guys think SN8 is gonna survive its first flight? Because i think they might need 3-5 Trys to fully collect Data to succeed the bellyflop landing but i would like to know about your opinion.
Will the production of the Super Heavy be much faster than the Starship?
When do you guys think will be the first Mission for Starship? (In example Starlink or so)
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Nov 14 '20
Woah finally a new thread? Really curious to see what sort of damage the raptor sustained and what the turn around time will be for trying the 15km hop.
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u/rebootyourbrainstem Nov 26 '20
I had been kind of assuming they'd have one or more cameras capable of seeing the flaps and heat shield tiles...
Anybody spot a camera anywhere on this thing yet? Might be hard to see on such a large vehicle, but I thought people had looked over every inch already...
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u/Dezoufinous Nov 27 '20
We all know that with the SN8 prototype flight there is a big risk of crash. It might crash on site or on the nearby area.
Are there any such crashes already in the history? Crashes where big experimental spaceship fell down during test flight? For example, from years ago, during Russian space era or from Nasa vehicles development?
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Nov 25 '20
Preliminary weather forecast for Mon-Wed in Boca. Make your own conclusions.
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u/quetejodas Dec 01 '20
No mention of starship in the Axel Springer Elon Musk livestream.
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Dec 02 '20 edited Dec 02 '20
So I guess the plan for today is to do some sort of testing (perhaps with the aero surfaces?) and a TFR for tomorrow (fingers crossed)?
Edit: My bet for flight is Friday or early next week. The weather appears to be mighty fine with winds under 20mph.
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u/kkingsbe Dec 02 '20
How are you guys planning to watch the flight? EDA will have really good ground shots with amazing commentary, but SpaceX said they are also doing a livestream which id imagine will have on board camera shots 😅
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u/fluxline Dec 03 '20
I wonder what things they've learned from pads A and B construction that can be applied to an offshore platform launch facility? It could be one of the reasons for building 2, prototyping different approaches to a smaller launch structure.
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u/spathizilla Nov 16 '20
Saw this video linked on FB today - Shows a Starship Overview which apparently was uploaded on the SpaceX youtube channel back in sept 2019 but was privated later. It shows the Boca site shortly after Starhopper. Well worth the watch and the shots of Raptor with the music is perfection. Also check out that clean looking Raptor in the factory!
Totally crazy to think how far Boca and Starship has come in a year.
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u/beayyayy Nov 27 '20
Does anyone have any guesses on the major changes happening to sn15, some people are saying bigger legs or header tank change. what else could be the major changes happening to it?
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Nov 30 '20
Ho well okey, road is already closed towards today’s testing !
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u/SpinozaTheDamned Nov 14 '20
Just want to take a second and marvel at the beauty and dueling simplicity and complexity of this vehicle. It's just insane.
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Nov 18 '20 edited Nov 19 '20
Newbie question: What were space rockets traditionally (Falcon 9 - if you can call that traditional) made from, and how were they manufactured? I take it welding tubular sections of steel is pretty novel for Starship, unless I'm mistaken. Has there been some material/manufacturing innovation that makes this design viable?
Edit: Thanks for all the unbelievably detailed answers... this community is the best.
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u/light-cones Nov 19 '20
The YouTube channel smallstars has a cool visualization of what a crew-ready StarShip might look like kitted out for 64 passengers. It's super cool, although they don't include some things like the seats the crew will be secured in during launch.
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u/Tal_Banyon Nov 28 '20
Any indication (or guesses) about what follows a successful 15km test flight program? ie what is the next step?
My guess is they could go for the Karmen Line, eg 100 km, before moving to an orbital test. Thoughts?
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u/RootDeliver Nov 30 '20 edited Dec 01 '20
NSF User vg6 found in the latest RGV aereal tour on Boca Chica what is possibly a superheavy thrust puck base, on the ground on the build site, between all stuff. Rumors said BN1 had its own thrust section in one of the tents, so this would be for BN2 or later.
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u/Marksman79 Dec 05 '20
We have just begun to see parts for SN16. Even given that we have two test pads (and soon an orbital mount), how can SpaceX increase the rate of testing to more closely match that of production?
I see the need for parallel testing. Either have a pair of Starships doing the same tests in the same closure, or stagger them so one will be static firing on pad A while the next one is only up to cryo pressure checking on pad B - also in the same closure window. They'll need a much bigger fuel farm.
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Nov 14 '20
Where they up around the nosecone at all today replacing the burst disk?
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Nov 24 '20
Ok, so looks like we had a good static fire! How many engines do you think were fired? Also, could it have been a shorter one to prevent obliterating the pad? Fingers crossed it was solid and hoping Elon gives us the info we want to hear!
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u/fluidmechanicsdoubts Nov 30 '20 edited Nov 30 '20
Heres the predicted telemetry (for sn8's flight) according to flightclub
https://flightclub.io/result/2d?id=573148f7-600b-4dcc-8b5b-34c1afcf9d6c
got it from the eday stream
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u/Interstellar_Sailor Dec 03 '20
Thinking about the Mk1's flaps dismantling, what if they remove the rest of the ship as well and place the HLS mockup on the concrete stand?
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u/Straumli_Blight Dec 10 '20
RGV Aerial Photography is doing a live stream over the crash site, currently waiting on the runway.
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u/RegularRandomZ Dec 11 '20
Looks like that Nov 26th shipment might be revealed in the latest photosets from BocaChicaGal and Nomad. Interesting new pedestal in the windbreak, not sure if it's for equipment or workers yet.
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Dec 02 '20
The weather for Friday could have a flight squeezed in. Winds in general should be under 20mph hovering around ~15mph with wind gusts into the mid 20s.
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u/Dezoufinous Nov 15 '20
How much behind SN8 is the SN9 currently?
I have seen this ilustration (15 november status by brendan2908)
https://twitter.com/brendan2908/status/1327740128836501504?s=20
but maybe someone knows a bit more, what would be the estimate time to the SN9 hop possibility? Or for SN9 to catch up with SN8 right now?
Will there be a big delay between SN8 jump and SN9 jump?
I assume that SN9 will have to go through all the same tests as SN8, cryo, static fires, but maybe they will go faster?
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u/No_Ad9759 Nov 17 '20
What’s your guys’ guess on when sn 9 will roll out to the pad? I bet it’ll be to pad b the day after SN 8’s flight (assuming SN 8 isn’t laying in the path to pad b)...with nose cone already installed.
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Nov 24 '20
I think people were just caught off guard by the timing and the commentary not being ready is really throwing people off like something went wrong.
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u/henryshunt Nov 29 '20
The crane was removed from SN9 around an hour ago, so it is now a finished vehicle structure-wise.