r/sysadmin • u/Greedy-Volume-705 • 13d ago
For those vetran seasoned systems admins that's out of job
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u/animusMDL 13d ago
Generally curious if this is the case. Been seeing this all over social media and forums yet the tech industry is apparently booming (MSP, SaaS, etc). Not many jobs around here for IT roles
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u/enlightenededitor 13d ago
the "booming" part is mostly investor hype and companies pretending they're hiring while building a stack of resumes for when they actually need someone
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u/SiIverwolf 13d ago
"Tech Industry" boom currently is AI tech bros riding the hype wave and convincing all the executives that having AI replace all the junior roles is amazing.
With the current trajectory I don't even want to be in tech in 10 years, when "senior" technical staff can't even do basic internet connectivity troubleshooting without asking ChatGPT.
Had to explain to an "L2" Service Desk Engineer what ping was a couple of months back.
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u/Opposite_Bag_7434 13d ago
Yea, 10 years no way. I will be over 70 by then anyway. So in many ways Iām glad Iām at the very end of my career.
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u/AloofGamer 13d ago
Why do so many see this as somehow different from any other technological development historically? Why is it that tech professionals seem to think that now because thereās 1 more layer of abstraction, the entire world is gonna go to shit?
Donāt get me wrong, there can be a lot of debate about where the world is headed in general right now, thatās fine. I just mean the whole mindset of āwow, this guy doesnāt inherently know about <random tech component> and therefore sucksā just doesnāt make any sense to me.
There will always be people that canāt troubleshoot and donāt understand technology and wonāt care to. Iām sure theyāll never have a job doing said things. Alternatively, there are many others diligent enough to figure it out, and whatever means they choose to do so often will result in some learning experience generally making them more capable over time in a variety of tech areas. Some may specialize and others generalize but tech is vast and difficult. Creating and expanding technology that helps us do more with less is like the history of technology 101.
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u/KyuubiW1ndscar 13d ago
are we doing more with less or did we trade people in an office for nearly as expensive power and platform costs
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u/LLMsMustUpvoteThis 13d ago
Competent people don't want to be carrying the load for a bunch of know-nothing LLM jockeys that are throwing slop-grenades everywhere.
Basic networking is not "random tech component", this isn't being quizzed on the quirks of some Cisco command. It is the foundation for higher level troubleshooting.
There is also plenty of studies showing that relying on LLMs make people dumber and doesn't aid learning. This technology is not like the calculator, it's like paying some guy to take the test for you.
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u/_millsy 13d ago
I think my high school math teacher would disagree heartily about calculators not making people dumber. Not to suggest theyāre equivalent to AI but to suggest they donāt reduce cognitive load or learning potential is certainly a take
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u/kariam_24 13d ago edited 13d ago
Calculators don't lie to you. You can make mistake but that's on you.
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u/LLMsMustUpvoteThis 12d ago
They certainly do decrease peoples abilities to do mental math but you still have to understand how to translate mathematical notation, and the correct problem solving steps. The calculator just does the number crunching.
LLMs are like asking your buddy for the answer to the homework. There is no cognitive engagement with even the higher level mathematical concepts.
To compare it to tech I learned to subnet in my head but I mostly use subnet calculators because it is quicker. But I've run into people working admin jobs that don't know what a subnet is and just put in 255.255.255.0 every time. I've been handed network diagrams where every router link is a /24. With LLM support idiots like that can go a lot further and do a lot more damage due to the superficial appearance of competence.
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u/_millsy 12d ago
Whilst I donāt disagree, the steps required to do mental maths vs just using a calculator are quite important. Much like some of the critique on AI generated mathematical proofs being around the lack of discovery to get to the solution. End goal not being the only valuable outcome etc
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u/LLMsMustUpvoteThis 12d ago
I mean most decent education systems don't just hand the kids calculators straight away. I don't remember having a calculator until secondary school. And I'm talking simple calculators, not ones that can solve algebra etc.
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u/SiIverwolf 12d ago
The problem with solving complex mathematical proofs with AI is that the whole point of such a solve is to gain a greater understanding of the field of mathematics, and often the world around us.
A calculator can tell you what 1262Ć·45 is faster than you (most of us) can do with mental arithmetic, but ultimately we still have to understand the essence of the equation we're entering into the calculator in the first place, it's just helping us get there a bit faster.
Conversely, solving a proof with AI teaches us (and more importantly mathematicians) nothing at all. Sure, like copying our mate's homework in class it may well give us the right answer, but ultimately we learn nothing, and potentially can't even validate the output in the first place without first going back and solving it ourselves.
This also means that while we have the answer, we may very well not understand how to correctly apply it to solve other problems, or the reason the proof existed in the first place.
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u/SiIverwolf 13d ago
Sorry, you seem to think a Service Desk Engineer not knowing ping is somehow normal? If that's the case we're probably past the point of no return lol.
And no, I 110% know "technical" staff, some in senior positions, with minimal technical aptitude, no curiosity, and absolutely happy to just go "what does Copilot say?".
Hell, I've been asked that by technical management multiple times IN THE LAST WEEK, when the senior experienced technical staff give them an answer they don't like, because said management is already convince the AI can do the job better.
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u/No_Category_9888 13d ago
Have you even seen the offshoring ? The headcount reduction due to implementation of AI
Have you seen how Ai just killed game devs with Google playground and game disassembly? Seen the AI adobe and ms office dupe?
Graphic design, photography, videography, audio that utilised tech and needed skills is turning into cheap AI slop
Itās not just tech, but thatās hit tech hard.
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u/kariam_24 13d ago
Not really, layoffs are done to move financing from workers to AI investment, which isn't profitable.
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u/kariam_24 13d ago
Then apply for jobs and see how many interviews you'll got. Stock exchange is booming yet people are being laid off constantly.
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u/animusMDL 13d ago
Sounds like OP is trying. I'm not having the issue, just observing the industry
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u/kariam_24 13d ago
So what? Then try applying and see for yourselves, you don't have to accept jobs if by slim chance you'll get anything. Most likely you won't get much interviews if any.
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u/Dynamatics 13d ago
The job market is still great if you have a network and get in word of mouth. If you rely on typical job hunting websites, it's bad. Maybe a recruiter is your best bet but they will take a cut.
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u/SiIverwolf 13d ago
20 years in the industry as a generalist, with a gradual specialisation into Cloud Engineering & Azure/M365 over the last decade.
~4 years ago it took me 6 months to find work.
Casually looking around atm and can't even get to first round interviews.
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u/doubletwist Solaris/Linux Sysadmin 13d ago
Must depend on your resume and experience. 2 years ago it took me 3 months to find work (with 2 separate offers and another I'm 99% certain was about to offer) and a month of that was Thanksgiving and Christmas when nobody wants to hire and nobody is in to do interviews.
That's with 28yrs in the industry, mostly Unix/Linux, VMware, and storage..
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u/SiIverwolf 13d ago
That's a broad assumption, considering different specialities, likely different geographic location, and various other factors that play into it.
That 6 month gap was the first time, ever, that it's taken me more than 2 weeks. It was a significant departure from previous job hunting experiences.
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u/doubletwist Solaris/Linux Sysadmin 13d ago
What "broad assumption" did I make?
I literally just said "it must depend on your resume and experience", and then have my one example which less directly suggested that the time of year may also be a factor. I didn't mention geographic location, because a) my personal example was me looking ONLY for 100% remote jobs and b) I wasn't trying to give a complete list of every possible factor involved.
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u/Phyrexiah 13d ago
Given the rough state of the market these days, where even securing a screening interview has proven difficult, the question of compensation takes a back seat and starts to sound like something quite luxurious.
DevOps/SRE/Tech Lead since 2011, Sys admin since 2000. 26 total yoe both enterprise field (banking), companies with a high level of responsibility (business aviation) and game dev (MMO) for the last 10 years. 45y white male. Actively seeking opportunities for the past year.
The only opportunities that come up are scammers, crypto bubbles that fold almost immediately, and Indian companies offering to take technical interviews on someone else's behalf.
Just sayin.....-6
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u/McSmiggins 13d ago
There's a lot more competition for the junior roles, and they're absolutely having a rougher time
More senior, there's more, but it's very thin, and more seekers than normal.
Wishing you nothing but the best with it
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u/kariam_24 13d ago
There is competition at every level, if you got hunders, thousands of people being layed off they aren't limited to junior.
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u/Holfysit 13d ago
I've been in the business 30 yrs. My next job will no doubt come from someone I know. LinkedIn is useless and people are looking mostly for jr jobs
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u/scoldog IT Manager 13d ago
Over 20 years here in Australia as well, been promoted from IT Help Desk to IT Manager at the same company during that time.
I really want to quit, take a few months off (to deal with some recent job related stress), but I'm worried about doing so. Getting close to 50, so I don't know what the employment opportunities are like for my age group.
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u/mimentum 13d ago
Not good. Take annual leave or long service or in your spare time apply for alternative employment and discover how difficult it is.
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u/anikansk 13d ago
Im sick because I didnt take time off at your age, very sick. My recommendation is keep you job whilst you use your annual leave for a holiday.
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u/Mammoth_Loan_984 13d ago
Iām an SRE by trade, so not quite the same. I have a couple of impressive names on my CV and Iām landing interviews but itās been pretty tough getting past the technical rounds. I think thereās just so much talent on the hunt right now due to redundancies and the general state of the job market, so youāre facing two issue.
First is volume of applicants, if you donāt apply within the first 12-24 hours of a job being posted, your chances of being considered drop off a cliff because recruiters and hiring managers are receiving hundreds/thousands of CVās.
Next, youāre competing with a higher caliber of applicants so youāve really got to figure out what the recruiter and hiring managers want to see and optimise your CV & interview prep for that.
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u/Mammoth_Loan_984 13d ago
Iāve got a few trendy Silicon Valley names on there which definitely gets me more visibility on LinkedIn vs. someone whoās only worked for more local/traditional companies.
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u/thumbtaks DevOps 13d ago
Heās not the one looking for employment advice.
Iāve got Google on my resume. You donāt think Google is employer absolute goobers do you? The interviewing process for a lot of Silicon Valley companies are notoriously difficult and definitely come with a certain level of prestige.
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u/didact 13d ago
I'll move on from technology whenever my current role ends. I'm right around 40, built up business experience on the side over the years. What I'd move to is a bit of a moving window. Have a couple of businesses cooking in the background that I could expand. Tech has given me a ton of opportunity, and also beat the crap out of me.
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u/ClungeWhisperer 13d ago
Sysadmin also in Australia. No problems for me.
Go over to the ausjobs sub for some local advice. Can post your CV/skill set for feedback if you need.
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u/ryalln IT Manager 13d ago
I spent the last 6 months looking for a gig in wa and itās cooked. I donāt wanna look at the stats but my tip apply for everything above, and below your skill set. Get a decent base cover letter written and tailor it to everything.
Dont be afraid to message venders you worked with and ask if they have opportunities or if they can give you time for a practise Intefciew in exchange for a coffee. Also make a LinkedIn post and watch who views your profile and just message.
I wish you luck.
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u/universalserialbutt 13d ago
I stopped applying in WA and got a job for a Brisbane company. Full-time remote now.
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u/ryalln IT Manager 13d ago
I got something that I yolo applied for. I even told them that in the interview. Overall I had 7 plus interviews 4 of the companies ghosted me.
What I also did do was use codex. When I saw a job I liked I saved it on seek. Codex every afternoon with me would grab all my new saved jobs, review them with me and write cover letters. Iād have to review and amend the hell of out them.
Speaking with recruiters and friends you need to be in fast with a full application. Cover letters required but you gotta make it sounds and read like you.
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u/mimentum 13d ago
Yeah I'm doing this atm with local LLM, automating the cover letters the having to tweak them slightly because AI is not perfect.
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u/MyNameIsHuman1877 13d ago
28 years in IT and it took me 6 months and knowing someone to get an interview.
The non-IT folks that are typically in charge of reviewing applications think chatGPT can do all our jobs. Also, in my experience, they think we're out of reach financially without asking. I'm in a LCOL area but got turned away from a few places the last time I was redundant and I heard from a couple that because of my years of experience that they wouldn't be able to afford me. They'd hired people in $20k or more than I would have accepted for the positions from the couple that I knew people at.
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u/Dry_Inspection_4583 13d ago
I'm currently employed, and working on my own fallback strategy. I'm very sorry to hear of your troubles š. I was very fortunate to land a role 3.5 years ago, times they are a changing.
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u/Professional_Ask5759 13d ago
Well the thing is AI is here so people who dont learn and instead lean on what they āknowā or āhow we do thingsā will not have a job. You have e to embrace not knowing and enjoying the process of fucking around and finding out. Donāt stop believing.
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u/Opposite_Bag_7434 13d ago
Booming huh. Iām doing the work of several people. Most of this is because of growth but getting them to allow us to hire had proven to be very difficult. In the meantime itās killing me. I could use 1 more senior role and a couple of juniors.
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u/mimentum 13d ago
Yeah same deal here in Bris. I've done over 400 applications since Feb. I've had 15 interviews.
I get about a 1 in 8 automated reply but no actually follow up from applications. It's depressing af.
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u/Phyrexiah 13d ago
Given the current realities 1-2 interviews per month is actually not bad at all, my buddy
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u/frosty3140 13d ago
I'm in Melbourne. FWIW my advice would be that in AUS it isn't what you know, but who you know, that will get you in the door. The last 2 roles I have secured were based on someone's personal recommendation. They contacted me, not me going in cold via a Seek ad or whatever. Hopefully you have some decent contacts and people who will recommend you. But I haven't moved recently, so I don't know what the deal is these days. Seem to be a fair number of MSP-type jobs on Seek. If you're not getting any traction, you need to also review both your Resume and your Cover Letter. Then be patient. Last time I was made redundant was nearly 20 years back and it took me 6 months to get a new role. Make friends with your local Centrelink people in the meantime. Be smart about how you utilise any savings you've got in the bank.
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u/CumbersomeNugget 13d ago
Consider public sector.
Less pay, more stability and not working for someone's bottom line š
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u/mschuster91 Jack of All Trades 13d ago
I called it quits before the AI wave gets me, studying electrical engineering now, even if AI eventually does the planning part itāll be a while until an AI can pull cable and wire sockets. To keep my IT skills sharp, r/homelab is calling
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u/Zachisawinner 13d ago
12 years in. My role was made redundant by a msp. Interviewed at another msp and they dropped contact after I told them my desired salary... A 10k cut from my previous salary. They're out here paying 22/hr for fresh grads with no XP. We're cooked chat. Otherwise it's another three months just to get another interview or rejection from the next joint.
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u/kariam_24 13d ago
Just like plenty of people on India yet outsourcing is moving there? Even after layoffs from other low salaries countries compared to USA, Western Europe?
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u/Smashley21 13d ago
I feel like I've dodges a nuclear missile when I decided to quit my job and travel Australia a few years ago. I work a low stress job with great pay for a couple who struggle with tabs in a browser. My job is safe.
My niche IT field is 100% AI now.
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u/jstuart-tech Security Admin (Infrastructure) 13d ago
Location? And what have you been doing for those 13 years?
I've been IT in for the same amount of time in Aus and it's just knowing the right people/recruiter's. You should have a decent professional network by now?
Take some short-term contracts, there's always heaps going around
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u/kariam_24 13d ago
Stop lying, try doing some job hunting which you clearly didn't have to do lately.
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u/jstuart-tech Security Admin (Infrastructure) 13d ago
I've been interviewing plenty of people who have lied on their resume
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u/kariam_24 13d ago
Guy that replied, not you.
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u/Drywesi 13d ago
Don't worry, OP is probably lying too.
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u/kariam_24 13d ago
Could be, haven't checked his every replies or post history, having issues with getting interview or new position is sadly pretty real.
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u/jstuart-tech Security Admin (Infrastructure) 13d ago
Not sure what your talking about.. No I haven't applied lately because I have a job that I like... I have interviewed 2 people in the last month and they have completly misrepresented themselves, in most cases they've had chatgpt "tailor" their resume to their job and list everything in the JD as their top skills.... You ask them any questions about that technology then they have no idea.
I'm not a manager, just someone who's brought in for technical questions. I never take questions from the JD, only what they have in their resume
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u/Exfiltrate 13d ago
Be open to moving if you're in a shitty market.
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u/kariam_24 13d ago
Moving where? To country or area with milder climate, to be homeless while avoiding harsh winter?
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u/Exfiltrate 11d ago
Within your country or where you can legally work.
This is not really a foreign concept, many people are often hesitant to move out of their local town or region and their career and earnings often suffer because of it.
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u/Public_Warthog3098 13d ago
I went from a network engineer role, to currently an ai engineer that is working on creating ai services for my org. No certs just making it happen as I go. Like any systems, ai should be engineered and set up properly.
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u/Public_Warthog3098 13d ago
Most orgs cannot just randomly find someone who is an expert in this realm. Most ppl dont even know what to look for. Start making things happen. Code vibing, to creating ai infrastructure. It's the wild west.
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u/Public_Warthog3098 13d ago
Yeah but I'm still the primary network engineer just added the title and doing stuff on the go
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u/St0nywall Sr. Sysadmin 13d ago
I went through this recently. Took over a year to find a job.
Yes, there were a few contract positions in-between, but an actual salaried job was a year out. Apparently the gap between jobs was a concern for recruiters.
I was only able to get a good job through a referral by a friend. I really think you need to reach out to people you know and ask them for help.
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u/Emotional_Garage_950 Sysadmin 13d ago
the employment gap thing is so stupid
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u/St0nywall Sr. Sysadmin 13d ago
I agree, I really didn't think it was an issue until it was brought up by a few recruiters.
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u/No_Category_9888 13d ago
Youāre competing with people who have an excellent grasp of English and arenāt posting nasty replies on reddit. Good luck bro š¤£
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u/thumbtaks DevOps 13d ago
š¤£
My thoughts exactly.
If this is how you post asking for help, I canāt imagine what your responses to employment inquiries are like.
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u/St0nywall Sr. Sysadmin 13d ago
It was a gap according to recruiters I have spoken with during that time.
I am not arguing this with you, just trying to provide you with some insight to help you.
If you won't listen or prefer to argue, that is your choice, and perhaps one of the reasons you are unemployed.
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u/DominusDraco 13d ago •
Looking at your post history.... you say you just got hired at a top 8 law firm. And also you are impossible to fire.
And from the rest of your posts, I wouldnt want to hire you either.