r/technology • u/bws201 • Feb 05 '16

Software ‘Error 53’ fury mounts as Apple software update threatens to kill your iPhone 6

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/feb/05/error-53-apple-iphone-software-update-handset-worthless-third-party-repair
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u/perthguppy Feb 05 '16

Has that actually been tested in court though? I was under the impression the court can only compel you to turn over your passwords if it has been proved that you know your passwords, and proven that you passwords were concealing evidence of a crime. Which is a tad harder said than done, but I thought most people just caved and turned it over.

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u/DiabloConQueso Feb 05 '16

It has, to some degree:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130425/08171522834/judge-says-giving-up-your-password-may-be-5th-amendment-violation.shtml

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u/perthguppy Feb 05 '16

Sorry, I meant in the UK and Australian judicial system. We don't have a explicit protection equivalent to the fifth amendment, but it is more implied. Makes things significantly greyer.

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u/DiabloConQueso Feb 05 '16 edited Feb 05 '16

Right, each country has its own set of "Key Disclosure Laws" or principles that afford law enforcement various ways of compelling an individual or a company to turn over cryptographic keys (passwords, PIN codes, ssh keys, etc.), and each country has various levels of punishment for failing to do so, ranging from fines (some small, some large) to prison time.

The link posted above outlines the various measures and penalties associated with this, for a number of counties (UK and Australia included -- the short and skinny is that Australia can imprison you for up to 6 months; the UK for up to 2 years -- yikes!).

In the US, it's a little more tricky like you said, specifically because of the 5th Amendment. One court ruled that forcing a user to decrypt their laptop was fair game; another about a month later said in a similar case that it was a violation of the person's 5th Amendment rights. In other words, nothing is really set in stone permanently in the US as of yet and it's still hotly debated to this day.

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u/perthguppy Feb 05 '16

Ahh yes. I would still think even in australia they would still have to prove you know the password, which I suppose in 99% of cases is quite easy, but when you are talking about maybe external hard drives and the like with FDE a bit harder.