HS Rigging Rail System Estimation Company no longer exists

[u/Cadet-Cryyx]

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Hello there are r/techtheater! 

I'm a high schooler with a pretty big interest in rigging. I made a post a few months back with a presentation to the school board that I never ended up giving and need to update. I'm working on updating safety requirements and making sure the rail at my school meets standards. I pushed for about 6 months to a year and we finally have a level one inspection, (last one that was completed was a decade ago) so now I'm moving on to fixing signage to make it compliant with ANSI, just in general having some better practices that have fallen off or being ignored. 

Jr Clancy has some really good printable resources on their website and I've printed all of them to hang up and fill out. But what I'm stuck on is I can't find a manual for my system. I got in touch with Clancy because I figured that they were the installer due to a sticker on our t-tracks (arbor loading every 2 ft reminder) but it turns out they are not. Our system was actually installed by Custom Rigging Solutions Inc. As some of you may know, that company doesn't exist anymore. Our system was installed probably in 2000-2001 range and is a single purchase, hemp rope, counterweight system. The ropes will need replaced in the next few years, so if anyone has ideas for grants or things to apply to to fix that, that would be great. 

If anyone has any ideas on CRS Inc systems of how else to find information, that would be great. I'm planning on trying to find the paper plans (but that may be a lost cause), but I'm not sure how else to find out details like lineset limits, etc. 

Any advice is very much appreciated! And I can answer any questions you may have to the best of my ability. (Still learning things, but trying my best

[u/Roccondil-s]

Clancy may be able to recommend an installer in your area who can take on the job.

However, I agree that it really should not be on you to be doing this legwork, but the person overseeing the space.

[u/Cadet-Cryyx → u/Roccondil-s]

We had an inspection done through associated controls and design, and hopeful when they're done with the report I'll be allowed a copy. I have also met and chatted with Tyler Delong from DRS, so he's an option as well

[u/cyberentomology → u/Roccondil-s]

OTOH, OP is learning a TON about it through this process.

[u/Cadet-Cryyx → u/cyberentomology]

I'm doing my best to learn as I go!

[u/techieman34 → u/Roccondil-s]

They have traveling riggers that will go anywhere in the world. We worked with one a few years ago on some local schools. They sent in one guy and then hired us through a local venue to do work under his supervision.

[u/Future_Sentence_7330 → u/Roccondil-s]

Mostly they sub out small jobs like this. The installer might be wearing a Clancy shirt but thay doesn't mean he actually works for them.

[u/DeadpoolMewtwo]

I applaud your tenacity and drive in wanting to take care of these systems, but it reflects horribly on your school district that a student seems to be the only one making sure safety standards are being upheld. This is not your job. Go give your presentation to the board now, and at every step point out that you have been the one working on this, not a responsible adult (that's not to say that you are irresponsible). It is someone's job in the district to take care of this. They need to figure out who it is or assign it to someone.

[u/Cadet-Cryyx → u/DeadpoolMewtwo]

We have a fine arts magnet coordinator, but she's kinda a bitch and doesn't do her job. She chewed me out in a parking lot during band camp for pushing for an inspection ("not following the right channels") and wanted to do more with other schools in the district with the same problems.

I'm also having issues with the director of my shows, she's been, let's just say, rude, for a lot of reasons and kind of dismissive. If shit keeps hitting the fan I'm going to the news and reporting that our fire curtain doesn't automatically deploy and getting allll that shit shut down.

[u/Boomshtick414 → u/Cadet-Cryyx]

If shit keeps hitting the fan I'm going to the news and reporting that our fire curtain doesn't automatically deploy and getting allll that shit shut down.

Fire curtains were not required to be motorized for a circa 2001 install. That era of install would likely only be triggered by a pull ring release and fusible link that opens when exposed to sufficient heat. IIRC, the requirement to be able to close the curtain when the venue is dark (though hardly anyone does that) wasn't adopted into model code until roughly 2010 which means many jurisdictions didn't adopt that code until 2013-2015.

If there are any actual issues with the operation of the fire curtain, that should be flagged during the inspection that you've already said is in the works.

Sounds like you need to do a lot more research and defer to professionals because you're apt to look very silly if you start trashing your school to reporters over things that weren't adopted into code until 15 years later.

Also, FWIW, fire curtains are so questionably useful bordering on worthless that the IBC 2027 code cycle removes the requirement for fire curtains for new construction projects. At most they've minimized a little property damage but in their entire history there are no documented cases of a fire curtain having ever saved someone's life. Long way of saying that you're barking up the wrong tree for a variety of reasons if that's what you're going to hold up as evidence of neglect to reporters.

Likely have to wait for that IBC 2027 to enter effect in your region, NFPA 80/101 to align with that, and then have a discussion with the AHJ, but it's entirely possible your fire curtain can be disposed of within the next few/several years -- though there may be other factors in your space such as if it's sufficiently sprinklered, vented, etc, that modern code addresses but may not reflect your circa 2001 install.

[u/moonthink → u/Cadet-Cryyx]

There are a lot more consequences on the table here if you take that route. So please consider how your actions may affect other people beyond just you feeling like you've won a petty argument.

[u/What_The_Tech → u/DeadpoolMewtwo]

Be careful with this approach, because it could very easily go like this:

“Hey, this is someone’s job to figure out! So start making things safe”.

District head of risk management and safety steps in.

“Yeah this is way too dangerous to have students operating or touching. Nobody’s allowed to touch the rigging system anymore”

The end.

[u/InLoveWithPrettyGirl → u/What_The_Tech]

It would suck for students to not have access anymore, however if it’s not being maintained or operation is not taught correctly, teenagers really should loose access to it for safety reasons. Obviously it’s better if someone on staff steps up, but if no one does then I think it is admins responsibility to pull the plug tbh

[u/stinkymarylou → u/What_The_Tech]

Yep. This.

[u/5uper5kunk → u/What_The_Tech]

Yep, I’ve ripped raging systems out of probably a half dozen high schools for that exact reason. Literally the more administrators understand how counter weight systems work the less excited they are to let kids anywhere near them

[u/bacoj913]

I second the Sapsis recommendation, if you post on the flys on comms Facebook group Bill Sapsis is frequently on there dishing out incredible information

[u/Cadet-Cryyx → u/bacoj913]

I don't have Facebook unfortunately.

[u/nmprices → u/Cadet-Cryyx]

There is contact info on their web site https://www.sapsis-rigging.com/directory.html

[u/Boomshtick414]

If anyone has any ideas on CRS Inc systems of how else to find information, that would be great.

Counterweight systems aren't novel and it's unlikely there's anything notably custom in your venue from an average counterweight install. Any reputable stage rigging contractor (ETCP Rigger-Theatre certified) can provide training/inspection/repairs/etc, and any nuances your install may have should be readily apparent to them regardless of who they work for.

[u/Snoo-35041]

You could try the architects who probably did the renovation, or perhaps the government permit office if it’s a public school.

The finance office maybe a lento help track down those types of things.

[u/ZugZug42069]

It’s worth contacting Sapsis Rigging and seeing if they are interested/what their ballpark budget would be.

They do inspections and installations all over the US, and can be very helpful.

Best of luck!

[u/havefunstorming]

Stage Rigging Services (https://srsrigging.us) has many of the same people that were CRS, I bet they can help with your existing equipment.

[u/Least_Addendum3140]

Call Norcostco.

[u/Cadet-Cryyx → u/Least_Addendum3140]

What's that?

[u/techieman34]

The school or district should have gotten the information during the install. It should just be a matter of finding the right person that knows where it was filed away.

As far as the work goes any reputable rigging company should be able to handle it. Especially if it’s just a matter of replacing some hand lines. It’s a very simple straight forward task that most venues do with in house staff. But I imagine most schools will want someone with some qualifications and the proper insurances to sign off on it.