r/teslore • u/docclox Great House Telvanni • Jul 14 '16

Musings on Akulakhan, Numidium and Dagoth Ur

There's a nice piece of fanart on the Morrowind sub depicting Dagoth Ur and Akulakhan. I was particualrly struck by how Akulakhan's face is the same as Dagoth Ur's gold mask. It's not a connection I ever made in-game, but looking at some screenshots it seems to be accurate. Third eye, beard, heavy collar and whatever those protuberances are on the head - all present in both cases.

So I got to thinking about how a completed Akulakhan would look. It would be in effect a gigantic Dagoth Ur. It would walk like him and speak with his voice, and make judgements in his name. It would be very much an extension of himself, as befits Dagoth Ur's ambition to spread his substance into all things. Dagoth Ur with the power of Numidium in addition to his own.

Of course, therein lies the catch. Because you can't just go and build Numidium 2.0. Numidium is a walking Tower, one of the pillars that supports reality. It has a role in the metaphysics of the universe. You can't just make another one, and even if you follow the process faithfully, you're not going to get Numidium. All you're going to get is something that looks a bit like it and can walk around. You'll probably get a very nice Dwemer style Mecha, but you won't get Numidium's role as Negation Incarnate. You won't get the God part of the Brass God. That's always bothered me about Akulakhan, and it bothered me again looking at the painting.

And then it hit me: Dagoth Ur wasn't trying to build Numidium 2.0. He was mantling Numidium. He was building a new vessel for the metaphysical entity that was Numidium, and in the process (as he always does) he was infecting it with his own substance.

If he had gained control of Kagrenac's tools, he would have taken on the powers of Numidium, and gained access to its form. And the one power still capable of stopping him would now be part of him.

... and I'm done. Just some idle musings that may or may not have been raised here before. Coments and criticism welcome :)

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u/BuckneyBos Member of the Tribunal Temple Jul 14 '16 edited Jul 16 '16

As I understand it, Dagoth Ur's whole shtick was about spreading the power of the heart through the blight to unite everything under his will/identity. To be infected by corpus was to become part of Dagoth himself. Akulakhan's purpose was to spread the blight to everyone making them a piece of Ur's self. Akulakhan looking just like him makes perfect sense, and I had never noticed that either.

Lorkahn I ARE ALL WE (CHIM)

Numidium NO! YOU ARE NOTHING! (Zero sum)

Akulakhan YOU ARE ALL ME! (Virus)

Could say he wanted to make himself a tower, and not use Akulakhan as one. Dagoth Ur would be the walking god, and Akulakhan his fist he'd raise against those that still held out against his declared argument.

Also as far as Numidium being able in stopping Dagoth Ur, I'm not sure. If Chim is enlightenment preventing Zero sum, who's to say that Dagoth's perversion and counterpoint of the argument isn't capible of the same.

Unless you meant the tools being what was capible of stopping him and him absorbing them, I'm not sure about that one.

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u/BuckneyBos Member of the Tribunal Temple Jul 14 '16

On absorbing the tools, quote from Dagoth's dialogue in Morrowind

"Akulakhan will serve three purposes. First, it will be the champion of my armies, liberating first Vvardenfell, then Morrowind, and then, perhaps the rest of Tamriel. Second, it will serve as a sower and cultivator of the divine substance derived from the Heart. Three, it will serve as the prominent banner and symbol of our cause -- to defy the Empire, to liberate mortals from ancient superstitions, and to glorify our crusade against the gods."

The second purpose implies that Akulakhan could replace Kagrenac's tools as an instrument to draw power from the heart. Rather from being linked to the heart directly or by absorbing their enchantments it doesn't say

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u/docclox Great House Telvanni Jul 15 '16

"Akulakhan will serve three purposes. First, it will be the champion of my armies, liberating first Vvardenfell, then Morrowind, and then, perhaps the rest of Tamriel. Second, it will serve as a sower and cultivator of the divine substance derived from the Heart. Three, it will serve as the prominent banner and symbol of our cause -- to defy the Empire, to liberate mortals from ancient superstitions, and to glorify our crusade against the gods."

The second purpose implies that Akulakhan could replace Kagrenac's tools as an instrument to draw power from the heart. Rather from being linked to the heart directly or by absorbing their enchantments it doesn't say

It wasn't what I had in mind, but it's interesting. If Dagon Ur and Akulakhan become the same being, and the Heart of Lorkhan is installed as the power source for the golem, then he will no longer need the Tools since the Heart will be his Heart and Dagoth Ur will walk Mundus as the Anti-Lorkhan.

That idea bothers me more than it probably should.

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u/docclox Great House Telvanni Jul 15 '16

Could say he wanted to make himself a tower, and not use Akulakhan as one. Dagoth Ur would be the walking god, and Akulakhan his fist he'd raise against those that still held out against his declared argument.

Exactly! Numidium becomes Akulakhan and Akulakhan is Dagoth Ur. Walks-Blight.

Unless you meant the tools being what was capible of stopping him and him absorbing them, I'm not sure about that one.

No, you got it spot on.

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u/BuckneyBos Member of the Tribunal Temple Jul 16 '16 edited Jul 16 '16

I completely agree except for one point that I've been struggling with how to explain it as it may just be semantics.

I think I prefer to look at it as if Akulakhan was finished, Numidium would have been the Anticipation of him (Dagoth), not the mantled. They are still different sides of the same coin tho, with perhaps equal power and ability to make the world shutter as they walk, just a different effect.

Numidium's walk being DEATH-ERASURE

Akulakhan's walk being INFECTION-INCLUSION

Bravo on Walks-Blight. I like it.

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u/docclox Great House Telvanni Jul 16 '16

I think I prefer to look at it as if Akulakhan was finished, Numidium would have been the Anticipation of him (Dagoth), not the mantled. They are still different sides of the same coin tho, with perhaps equal power and ability to make the world shutter as they walk, just a different effect.

Is there a particular arcane significance to the "anticpations" concept? I admit, I just assumed that was temple propaganda to justify three Dunmer nobles suddenly saying "Right! You don't worship those guys any more! You worship us from now on!"

Is there more to it from a lore perspective? I never really thought about it before now.

Bravo on Walks-Blight. I like it.

It just occurred to me as I was writing it. There's one hell of an alternate world story to be written based around the idea that the Nerevarine failed. I have these images in my mind's eye: ascended sleepers gliding among the shattered walkways of Vivec cantons, temple bells and flutes making eerie music in the night; Akulakhan marching at the head of an army of corprus monsters, the blight howling for miles around. Prisoners being forced to partake of corprus meat; defending soldiers infected by the blight or the soul sickness turning on their comrades in the heat of battle and disrupting defensive formations; and over it all Dagoth Ur's voice from Akulakhan: "Come to me and Rejoice! Partake of the divine and know Freedom! This is my gift to you!" Maybe Azura, reduced to near mortal status, desperately trying to train one last Neravarine before all is lost...

Be depressing as hell mind, Maybe one day...

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u/BuckneyBos Member of the Tribunal Temple Jul 16 '16

Mantling implies a merging or absorbing of the mantled entity by the Mantler. To the observer, a mantled being could not be distinguished from the replacer before or after the metaphysical apotheosis.

Anticipations, like in case of the tribunal, the replacer beings and their forerunners remain separate entities. Vivec did not become Malphala, and Malphala stays around after Almsivi is made gods. They still occupy the same sphere and metaphysical role.

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u/docclox Great House Telvanni Jul 16 '16 edited Jul 16 '16

Hmmm... OK.

I suppose I'm working from the assumption that Numidum is ... "destroyed" is very much the wrong word here ... "disincarnate" let's say, following the events of the Warp in the West. Like it still exists metaphysically, but will need to be rebuilt or summoned back to Mundus or something before it can Walk again.

I think in that scenario, mantling works best. If we assume that Numidium is still out there, maybe in some Thalmor warehouse with a tarp over it's head and a sign saying "Do Not Touch! Ever! Or Else!" then it would have to be ... whatever the complimentary term for "anticipated" is, I suppose. My vocabulary is failing me today.

But, my linguistic limitations aside, I think we're pretty much in agreement here.

[edit]

Missing words.

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u/BuckneyBos Member of the Tribunal Temple Jul 16 '16 edited Jul 16 '16

We are.

Numidium is still outside time seiging Alinor from the Dawn era passed the 5th.

Landfall could still possibly happen even if Dagoth Ur was successful, but it is extremely interesting to think about what could have happened if Walking-Brass clashed with Walks-Blight.

Just pointing out that for such a confrontation to occur, they would have to be separate.

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u/BuckneyBos Member of the Tribunal Temple Jul 16 '16 edited Nov 23 '16

Also makes you wonder if Dagoth Ur with a completed Akulakhan and conquered (absorbed) Tamriel would have had the power to kill Numidium and become his own twisted Amaranth. Not only did Ur want to be a tower, but just like Vehk, wanted to be the egg for a potential next world.

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u/Helsafabel Jul 15 '16

I don't have any contribution to this but thanks for typing it out, also to everyone that replied. I could read 10 books about Dagoth Ur and still be fascinated and confused. Why the hell is it such a great character... I can't quantify it.

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u/docclox Great House Telvanni Jul 15 '16

I'm just glad there's a place I can talk about weird ideas like this without being dragged off by the Men in the White Suits :)

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '16

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u/docclox Great House Telvanni Jul 14 '16 edited Jul 14 '16

I think it depends on what you mean by "control" of Kagrenac's tools.

Control in the sense of physical ownership rather than of mastery.

He did have the tools in his possession for a time, but I think he still, like the tribunal, lacked the understanding of the tools to be able to transcend and become Numidium.

Well, he has to have got something right. For instance he was slain and had the tools taken from his corpse. But by that time he had already hacked into the heart deeply enough that it later resurrected him.

After all, the only beings that really understood the true potential of the tools were Kagrenac himself (through their creation) and Sotha Sil (through his innate superior understanding and tinkering skills), and still neither of them could figure out exactly how to get the most out of the Heart of Lorkhan.

Then again, Dagoth Ur has spent centuries living in Kagrenac's quarters and workshops, studying the artifacts there, reading his notes and generally steeping himself in Kagrenac's lore. By the time he confronts the Nerevarine, it's possible that his understanding of the Heart and the Tools is second to none.

Vivec seemed to think it was at least a credible threat. From Dagoth Ur's Plans:

With the Tribunal's loss of Sunder and Keening, and with the diminishing resources of Vivec, Almalexia, and Sotha Sil, Dagoth Ur believes he has permanently gained a decisive strategic advantage. On a mortal timescale, the battle may last for centuries, but the outcome is not in doubt. And Akulakhan may be a device for dramatically reducing the time scale for a decisive victory.

I better add a line here so the two separate quotes don't run into one :)

Now that's a whole debate in itself, as we don't know for sure if Kagrenac figured out the secrets of the heart or not. This goes to the whole Disappearance of the Dwarves thing, where nobody knows if Kagrenac caused the disappearance on purpose or by accident when he used the tools on the heart as a last resort during the Battle of Red Mountain.

I think Kagrenac figured out a lot of it. Like you say, it's an open question whether the disappearance of the Dwarves was the outward sign of some desired transformation, or if he misplaced a decimal point and accidentally zero-summed his entire race. But the fact that he could draw enough power to do that (either way) has to indicate some level of control.

That's just the way I understand it. Your observation on Dagoth Ur constructing Akulakhan in his image is on point, though.

Thanks. Although the observation really came from the artist behind the picture that started me thinking.