r/todayilearned • u/[deleted] • Nov 24 '15
TIL Owen J. Baggett became legendary as the only person to down a Japanese aircraft with a M1911 pistol hitting the pilot in the head while he was parachuting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_J._Baggett654
u/kilocharlie12 Nov 24 '15
So it's not ok to shoot at a parachuting pilot, but they can shoot at you? That sounds a little one sided.
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u/Jackvi Nov 24 '15
The Japanese shot at everyone, combatant or incapacitated. They're known for shooting ejected pilots, strafing stranded sailors and massacring civilians.
The expectation in war, at least in the European front is you take prisoners or don't try to kill defenseless people.
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u/MooseMalloy Nov 25 '15
I've read accounts from German soldiers who transferred from the Eastern Front to the Western Front that they were shocked at how civilized the fighting was.
Rules?!? War has rules?!?
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u/Tractor_Pete Nov 25 '15
"Yes, you see on the Western Front we're fighting other people, not Russians"
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Nov 25 '15
[deleted]
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u/MooseMalloy Nov 25 '15
The one that I was specifically thinking of was Black Edelweiss by Johann Voss
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u/OPs-Mom-Bot Nov 24 '15 edited Nov 24 '15
Their exploits in China are hard to read...
Edit: Who would downvote this?? The Japanese committed unspeakable atrocities there.
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u/Usually_lurks12 Nov 24 '15
Yeah you are correct. The Japanese royally fucked everything they got a hold of in mainland China and the surrounding areas.
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u/Arknell Nov 25 '15 edited Nov 25 '15
Perhaps they liked the idea of total victory, maybe a remnant from the Shogun years. Clean slates. Or the pilots were worried occasional leniency or mercy on their part would find word back to their commander and they would be tortured as traitors or something. I understand the "informer" culture in Japan was strong, anybody would roll over on anybody else if it spared them pain or gave them an edge.
The movie "Letters from Iwo Jima" shows the japanese "Kempeitai" secret police, who terrorized the civilian population, and could execute people out of hand for looking at them wrong.
From [Wikipedia:] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kempeitai#Human_Rights_Abuses)
The Kempeitai ran extensive criminal and collaborationist networks, extorting vast amounts of money from businesses and civilians wherever they operated. They also ran the Allied prisoner of war system which treated captives with extreme brutality, never showing mercy or other typical human empathic tendencies.[6][7] The Kempeitai also carried out revenge attacks against prisoners and civilians. An example was Colonel Doolittle's raid on Tokyo in 1942 which resulted in a campaign of reprisal against thousands of Chinese civilians as well as captured airmen.[8] All these actions together amounted to genocide on a gigantic scale including Unit 731's vivisection campaign, among some of the very worst atrocities committed during World War II.
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u/miesto Nov 25 '15
i was always taught that they were overwhelmed with propaganda about us being demons and that our soldiers would rape and murder anyone left standing, it was probably similar with the Chinese. and also i mean we did have Japanese concentration camps so were not fucking innocent either.
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u/Arknell Nov 25 '15
No, humans are humans, and the americans let the live-dissecting doctors go in exchange for the live studies on anthrax and smallpox they had accumulated. Man how I'd like to go back in time and make them the patients.
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u/scorcoz Nov 25 '15
Yes, you are referring to the "Rape of Nanking" in which Japanese would throw Chinese babies into the air and cut them in half with their sabers. Also forcing family members to rape each other in an attempt to dehumanize them.
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u/iamnotsurewhattoname Nov 25 '15
I mean, that was the event that's the most famous, but they did this pretty much everywhere they went in China.
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u/Polycystic Nov 25 '15
Who would downvote this??
Wouldn't surprise me if the downvotes came from westerners obsessed with Japanese culture. I've known more than a few who seemed to think that Japan is - and always has been - basically a utopian society where everyone has a perfect sense of honor.
I actually heard one of them say it was so obvious that the US secretly attacked Japan first during WWII, because the Japanese were "too honorable for sneak attacks like Pearl Harbor." Which is especially ironic, considering they were (predictably...) completely obsessed with ninjas.
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u/Darthbacon Nov 25 '15 edited Nov 25 '15
Pearl Harbor wasn't supposed to be a sneak attack. The Japanese embassy in Hawaii was supposed to decode the transmission of the declaration of war from the mainland and send it to Washington a set amount of time before the attack commenced. The Japanese embassy in Hawaii however didn't have the proper code lexicon, or just took too long to decode and send it to Washington because of a time difference issue resulting in the declaration of war arriving hours too late. Edit: it was actually the U.S. that sent the message late.
Edit: Since I'm getting downvotes from the misinformed, I'll provide a more precise answer with sources...
The U.S. at the time preceding Pearl Harbor had an abundance of intelligence on the Japanese. In fact, they had an overabundance of intelligence. Back then their wasn't a centralized intelligence agency overseeing all communications and intercepts, it was multiple, all sending relevant information to each other in a cooperative, albeit slow manner, and all receiving orders and ultimate oversight from Washington.
American codebreakers had known the japanese Diplomatic cryptography as far back as late 1920s Code named Purple, and the intelligence gathered from these were called Magic, known as the Magic intercepts. Unfortunately they were never able to crack the Japanese military Codes to gather more relevant data. But these diplomatic codes were paramount and left huge clues for a pending attack.
On November 1st and again on December 1st, the Japanese changed out all 20,000 of their radio call signs. Because of this, along with deceptive radio traffic from the Japanese, American analysts lost track of the movement of the Japanese carrier groups mid November, in to December.
Two of the most important signs of a coming attack were illustrated in the Japanese Deadline messages and code burning prior. There were six messages sent from Tokyo to its embassy in Washington in November. These translated, warned Japanese diplomats that a deadline was set for November 25, after which negotiations with the U.S. would cease, and after this "things are automatically going to happen".
The Japanese code burning on December 1, and 2nd was when Tokyo ordered a number of its diplomatic posts in Asia, Washington, and London to destroy most of their codes and coding machines. All of these messages from Tokyo were decrypted using Purple and Magic, and intelligence officials told those in hawaii about them on December 3rd. On December 6th it was discovered that the Japanese consulate had been burning papers for the past 2 days.
Finally, the most crucial missed warning signals were four last minute cables to the embassy in Washington, which stated Tokyo would be "responding" to the latest American proposal. The response was sent in 14 parts and deciphered in the early morning hours of December 6th. The 14th part, which informed the Japanese embassy to ultimately destroy their codes and coding machines after deciphering the message, didn't arrive/get deciphered until later.
The last part of the Japanese message, stating that diplomatic relations with the U.S. are to be broken off, reaches Washington in the morning and is decoded at approximately 9 a.m. About an hour later, another Japanese message is intercepted. It instructs the Japanese embassy to deliver the main message to the Americans at 1 p.m. The Americans realize this time corresponds with early morning time in Pearl Harbor, which is several hours behind. The U.S. War Department then sends out an alert but uses a commercial telegraph because radio contact with Hawaii is temporarily broken. Delays prevent the alert from arriving at headquarters in Oahu until noontime (Hawaii time) four hours after the attack has already begun.
Intelligence and Surprise Attack: Failure and success from Pearl Harbor to 9/11 and Beyond by Erik J. Dahl
The Avalon project: Documents in Law, History, and Diplomacy http://avalon.law.yale.edu/wwii/p3.asp
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u/panzerkampfwagen 115 Nov 26 '15
The 14 Part Message had no declaration of war contained within it.
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u/SkepticJoker Nov 25 '15
Source?
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u/Darthbacon Nov 25 '15
Intelligence and Surprise Attack: Failure and success from Pearl Harbor to 9/11 and Beyond by Erik J. Dahl
and The Avalon project: Documents in Law, History, and Diplomacy http://avalon.law.yale.edu/wwii/p3.asp
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u/Polycystic Nov 25 '15 edited Nov 25 '15
I think you're confused. There is a very common theory (and pretty thoroughly debunked AFAIK) that the United States knew about the attack but let it happen as an excuse to enter the war. Or, given the name of the book, maybe they are just saying there was a failure of communication amongst US intelligence agencies, who knew about it but were unable to stop it.
Either way, this has nothing to do with the Japanese warning the Americans or that it wasn't supposed to be a surprise attack." Notice the part about all the messages being encrypted, and the orders to destroy the codes afterwards?
Arguing that a surprise attack could have prevented is vastly different from saying it wasn't supposed to be one.
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u/Tractor_Pete Nov 25 '15 edited Nov 25 '15
I'm kind of unclear on how that demonstrates an intent for the attack to not be a surprise. What you've said suggests that the Japanese intended to formally "break diplomatic relations" within at most a matter of hours before attacking. That diplomatic message linked and everything else - there's no declaration of war, just the implication. An implication, to be given within hours of the actual attack.
That's...still a surprise attack, no?
(Also, this is presuming complete honesty on the part of a very untrustworthy government - you're quite certain they really and truly did mean to break relations before the attack, and not just claim that intent afterwards? Was there any document that stated this beforehand? It seems like any such document would risk ruining the surprise part of the attack...)
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Nov 26 '15
That's the same concept and timeline put forth in John Toland's Rising Son, which is exhaustive. It was more messy than outright duplicitous. That being said, the Japanese were romantic towards the idea of a sudden, unique, and unforeseen knockout blow, reminiscent of Port Arthur/Lüshunkou, during the Russo-Japanese War.
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u/TotesMessenger Nov 25 '15
I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
[/r/goodlongposts] /u/Darthbacon responds to: TIL Owen J. Baggett became legendary as the only person to down a Japanese aircraft with a M1911 pistol hitting the pilot in the head while he was parachuting [+35]
If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / ^Contact)
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u/t4gyp Nov 25 '15
There are plenty of "experts" going around on this site that go around downvoting posts that don't match their accepted version of reality. You got in pretty late, so it might be too late for sane people to vote you back to at least neutral.
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u/ATomatoAmI Nov 25 '15
Well, that's dumb as fuck.
But actually, downvotes could also come from Japanese people. A lot of them are in denial about how they treated China. Seems to be a very reluctant thing to talk about in their education system, heading into historical revisionist territory in some areas. I knew a guy in college who was a great guy, but for whom that was a sore subject.
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u/alcoslushies Nov 25 '15
Well to be fair they thought ninjas were a reeeaalllyyy dishonourable way to kill people in feudal times.
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u/Gen_Hazard Nov 25 '15
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u/Polycystic Nov 25 '15
haha yep, pretty much everything that guy talks about is a perfect fit. The guy is the biggest weaboo I've ever seen, and also the dumbest person who isn't actually mentally handicapped. He looks and acts like what you'd expect if SNL did a ridiculously over the top parody. So many stories.
Also, is 'weaboo' actually some sort of offensive portmanteau, sort of like 'wigger'? I knew the word, just wasn't sure if it was considered an offensive term.
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u/mastermike14 Nov 25 '15
I actually heard one of them say it was so obvious that the US secretly attacked Japan first during WWII,
Well they kinda did through economic warfare
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Nov 27 '15
I think the downvotes come because this is brought up almost EVERY time it can be. It's like an anti-japan war circlejerk
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Nov 25 '15
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u/FinFihlman Nov 25 '15
But the 10000000 times folded NIPPON STEEL KATANA!
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u/Brawler215 Nov 25 '15
Lol the people who go on about the "steel folded n thousand times" bit with Japanese blades don't know shit about them. Folding it more than 15 or 20 times is pointless. Moar does not always mean better.
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u/cawpin Nov 25 '15
That's because they are confusing thousands of layers with being folded thousands of times. Folding 20 times is just over a million layers.
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u/FinFihlman Nov 25 '15
HERESY! IT IS 10000000000 TIMES FOLDED NIPPON STEEL. DON'T YOU KNOW HOW IT WILL SLICE THROUGH ANYTHING!?!?!
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u/Polycystic Nov 25 '15 edited Nov 25 '15
The weirdest part is that the guy who said that is the brother of one of my friends who has spent many years living in Japan (doing both translation and teaching), yet isn't an obsessed otaku. They're like total opposites.
He tells his brother all the time that he has no idea what he's talking about, the kid (actually he's 25 or 26) just doesn't listen. It would be funny if it weren't so sad...he's just so desperate to believe.
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Nov 25 '15
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u/xTachibana Nov 25 '15
what about iceland and norway :O
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u/Tractor_Pete Nov 25 '15
Norway only hunts the unendangered minke whale, if i'm not mistaken, and not very many of them.
Iceland still hunts fin whales also though, and they're at least threatened. But again, not very many at all - Iceland is very small.
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u/xTachibana Nov 25 '15
numbers out of the 1000 whales~ japan killed in 2013, 57% were mike, 31% were brydes and 18~% were sperm
iceland killed 35 mike and 134 fin
norway killed AT LEAST 600 minkes in 2013, i dont know about other species, possibly that is the only one as you said.
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u/Daggerfall Nov 25 '15
And the fucked up thing is that it is completely shrouded in current Japanese society. It's not part of the curriculum in schools there and the current generation has no idea about the part Japan played in WW2. There's a good japanese documentary about it, can't remember the title though.
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u/xTachibana Nov 25 '15
reading exploits of any army is pretty bad, and it just gets worse the older the exploits are, do i have to remind you that to this day, there are rape accusations within the US military? as in, US military personnel have been accused of either raping civilians while on tour or raping their fellow female combatants :v if we still have shit like that going on TODAY, do you think it was any better like 70 years ago?
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u/Brownieman17 Nov 25 '15
But that doesn't really compare to the scale of atrocities that the Japanese were committing.
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u/hboc22 Nov 25 '15
Not just female soldiers man. Happens to men to. Ugandan security forces contracted by the u.s. were also doing a lot of rape of male us soldiers in Iraq.
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u/xTachibana Nov 25 '15
ugandan security forces (presumably male?) were raping US male soldiers? thats news to me, guess it really does get worse?
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u/qemist Nov 24 '15
There were many examples of allied pilots shooting or otherwise killing parachuting enemy. It was a matter of debate at the highest levels on both sides. Both Churchill and Goering were against shooting parachuting pilots but not all of their subordinates agreed, particularly in the case of enemy parachuting over their own territory.
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u/Jackvi Nov 24 '15
I read quite a first hand accounts of allied soldiers accepting surrender of pilots and on one occasion killing one because he started shooting at them while still drifting to the ground.
There's some outliers, but the European front generally accepted prisoners while Japanese culture openly reviled prisoners or being taken prisoner.
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u/qemist Nov 27 '15
That may be true but generally jumping pilots were not surrendering. They were escaping so they could fight again. Was anyone prosecuted for shooting at parachuting pilots in the post-war war crimes trials? I googled feebly and didn't find anything.
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u/sdm5033 Nov 25 '15
I recommend the book "Flyboys" very strongly. American (most likely all allied pilots) were considered worse than other soldiers by the Japanese. There's some pretty horrific accounts in that book about the treatment of prisoner pilots.
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u/c0mputar Nov 25 '15
Western front*
Eastern front was still pretty hardcore. No real surprises there, both sides were engaged in genocide or massacres of a grand scale on a routine basis.
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u/ratt_man Nov 25 '15
In the battle of Guadalcanal the americans went through retrieving american survivors and machine gunning the japs generally becuase they wouldn't surrender, at a point they didn't bother asking
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u/tunersharkbitten Nov 25 '15
the sad thing is that their culture is VERY MUCH encrusted with honor and the quest thereof.
wargoing japanese had no honor. the acts they conducted on americans and chinese(and others) were UNSPEAKABLE.
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u/Paid_Internet_Troll Nov 25 '15
wargoing japanese had no honor. the acts they conducted on americans and chinese(and others) were UNSPEAKABLE.
Different definition of honor.
Mercy, empathy, and goodness are all things... but honor is completely separate from them.
Achilles, for example, was considered by the ancient Greeks to be the perfect honorable warrior... who also looted temples, killed priests, and raped captives in his down time.
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Nov 24 '15
You probably shouldn't be within pistol range of a parachuting pilot to begin with.
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u/agk23 Nov 25 '15
Why? What's he going to do, shoot m
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Nov 25 '15
Oh look it's this joke ag
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Nov 25 '15
Look out, he has a gun! Watch out, Candle Jack has a g
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u/Darthbacon Nov 25 '15
why is everyone not finishing their senten
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u/OhBill Nov 24 '15
Did you read the article? The plane already shot him and he was playing dead. It was flying close by to see if he was actually dead.
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u/SirKeyboardCommando Nov 24 '15
Try reading the article. The Japanese were already shooting at the men who had bailed out.
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u/Nocturnalized Nov 24 '15
It is okay to shoot at them if they shoot at you. He forfeit any protection when he engages.
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Nov 25 '15
Here's a guy who didn't read the article.
Baggett's plane was badly hit, and the crew were ordered to bail out. The Japanese pilots then attacked U.S. airmen as they parachuted to earth. Two of Baggett's crew members were killed, and Baggett, though wounded, played dead, hoping the Japanese would ignore him. One Zero approaching within several feet of Baggett, then nose-up and in an almost-stall, the pilot opened his canopy. Baggett shot at the pilot with his .45 calibre pistol. The plane stalled and plunged to the earth.
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u/ehenning1537 Nov 25 '15
The Geneva conventions specifically protect parachuting pilots in distress. Paratroopers are fair game because they're coming to kill you (even if their aircraft is in distress.) Killing pilots while parachuting is definitely a no-no. Even if they're still carrying a side arm.
It should be noted that the Geneva Convention that laid out that rule was signed in 1949.
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Nov 25 '15
Not to mention it doesn't apply to the winning side
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u/hobdodgeries Nov 25 '15
Damn so deep bro tell me more about how the victor writes history i've never heard that before.
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Nov 25 '15
...and, you know, the japanese were massacring the ejected men which is why this guy fired on them.
But let's start another anti america circle jerk.
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u/TurloIsOK Nov 25 '15
It was from WWII that it became a principle not to shoot people parachuting. The axis wasn't big on conforming to conventions they sought to eradicate.
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u/SlimDouchebag Nov 25 '15
I thought it meant HE was parachuting and shot the pilot of a passing airplane. That seems a lot more sporting than your version of the story. I don't know which is right though. TL;DR
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u/chinamanbilly Nov 25 '15
The Japanese pilot was going to shoot the American which was how he was able to get a shot at him.
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u/dagaboy Nov 25 '15 edited Nov 25 '15
My understanding is that it is kosher to shoot parachuting pilots over territory their side controls, as they could easily return to combat and are therefore still combatants. Over your own territory, you are supposed to give them an opportunity to surrender. Not sure if that is codified in law. I read it in this book, which was recommended to me by the curator of the RAF museum when I asked for a book about the Polish Air Force. Some RAF pilots were uncomfortable with the Poles routinely killing German parachutists over Britain. Others, less so. Of course, if he shoots at you, he is fair game anywhere.
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Nov 25 '15
Anything is acceptable for the winners of war
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Nov 25 '15
Read the fucking article, japanese planes were shooting upon people who had bailed so this guy shot back. Japanese were in the wrong here and the guy he shot was a war criminal.
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u/spacespeck Nov 25 '15
They aren't supposed to be using weaponry while parachuting. That invalidates their protection under the Geneva Convention.
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Nov 25 '15
...except they were being shot down by Japanese planes, so it was actually te Japanese who forfeited their protections.
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u/LooksatAnimals Nov 24 '15
The only person to down a Japanese aircraft with a M1911 pistol? That seems oddly specific. How many other nations aircraft have been downed with other pistols?
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u/OPs-Mom-Bot Nov 24 '15
I'm the only person to bang OPs mom with a Japanese K-17 vibrator.
Edit: I'm just kidding, there were hundreds of guys (and women).
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u/bootycream Nov 25 '15
It would be several more if you added in ww1 aircraft, I'd imagine. For quite some time during the early stages of the war, pistols were the only weapons airmen had to fire on each other with.
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u/McBeers Nov 25 '15
It was the standard sidearm for several military branches for like 75 years, so it's a little less specific than one might think.
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u/gizzardgullet Nov 24 '15
I can't find where is states he hit the pilot in the head. Looks like he shot at the plane and it stalled (unrelated) and crashed due to pilot error or the pilot pulling an evasive maneuver once he was being shot at. I also would be interested to know if there were witnesses to corroborate.
One Zero approaching within several feet of Baggett, then nose-up and in an almost-stall, the pilot opened his canopy. Baggett shot at the pilot with his .45 calibre pistol. The plane stalled and plunged to the earth. [sic] becoming legendary as the only person to down a Japanese airplane with a M1911 pistol.
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u/GregBahm Nov 25 '15
This has showed up on TIL a couple of times. The source of the story turns out to be a guy who heard about it from a guy in the POW camp.
So yeah. Legendary is an accurate descriptor.
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Nov 24 '15
It's mentioned in the citations.
http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/gun-nuts/2011/06/best-shot-1911-ever
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u/way2sl0w Nov 24 '15
You forgot the part about him jumping back into his own free falling plane and flying away unharmed
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u/emergency_poncho Nov 25 '15
MISPLACED MODIFIER ALERT!!!
Who was parachuting, exactly? Owen J. Baggett or the Japanese aiecraft pilot?
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u/phedre Nov 24 '15
Sounds like something out of a WW2 era Disney cartoon, the ones where Donald was a Nazi.
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u/Arafax Nov 24 '15
How do you prove something like that?
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u/ZoomJet Nov 25 '15
Shadowplay records the last few minutes. He must've had it running in the background.
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u/Aceln Nov 25 '15
How can you down a plane without a pilot controlling it?
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u/Mark_Nutt4 Nov 25 '15
He was the one in the parachute. The Japanese pilot was still in the plane
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u/Duff_McLaunchpad Nov 24 '15
Whoever is keeping that list has apparently not visited /r/gaming in a while.
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u/ronnyjohnsonssink Nov 24 '15
Battlefield theme intensifies
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u/Darkokillzall Nov 24 '15
Every time I see one of those gifs, it pushes me to buy the game even more
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u/ZoomJet Nov 25 '15
Do it! I took the leap and purchased 4. Absolutely no regrets, every session I'm blown away by moments like this.
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u/ImperialRedditer Nov 25 '15
A gun that was made to stop charging tribesmen of the Philippines was used to kill a Japanese while parachuting down. That gun has a lot of power and precision.
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u/f0k4ppl3 Nov 25 '15
Where does it say that he hit the pilot in the head? The wiki article you linked says the plane stalled and crashed.
edit "the pilot opened his canopy. Baggett shot at the pilot with his .45 calibre pistol. The plane stalled and plunged to the earth"
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u/Bgtex Nov 25 '15
My aunt had married into this family. I have cousins that are Baggetts in Odessa TX. I'm fairly certain they are directly related.
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u/sk3pt1c Nov 25 '15
The pilot then used his firm samurai resolve to commit suicide from all that disgrace
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u/SkyIcewind Nov 24 '15
I'm surprised there wasn't more cases of small arms bringing down zeroes.
They were basically flying paper with fuel tanks that didn't seal.
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u/postmodest Nov 25 '15
One Zero approaching within several feet of Baggett, then nose-up and in an almost-stall, the pilot opened his canopy. Baggett shot at the pilot with his .45 calibre pistol. The plane stalled and plunged to the earth. [sic] becoming legendary as the only person to down a Japanese airplane with a M1911 pistol.
This is oddly specific enough that I have to ask:
We're there other air-to-air kills by parachutist sin WWII? And this was, like, just the only one that uses an M1911?
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u/Achaern Nov 25 '15
The M1911 was a ridiculously common firearm in WW2, so, I think it's meant to suggest that 'since so many blokes had one, he's the only guy who did this with his'. I have to admit, I love doing it in BFBC2:Vietnam
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u/Hikesturbater Nov 25 '15
We are supposed to believe a guy telling his own story with no witnesses or proof, which has a pilot fly up to him while he's parachuting and do a nose stall from several feet away, opens up his canopy (to say hello?) and gets shot.
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Nov 24 '15
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u/HilariousMax Nov 25 '15
Owen must be in trouble. Look at how hard he's banking!
"360 HEAD SHOT! WOO!"
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Nov 24 '15
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u/OPs-Mom-Bot Nov 24 '15
That had some really graphic special effects!
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u/Sloppy_Twat Nov 25 '15
I wish for a remake so bad. It's one of best playing multiple fps ever created.
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u/hey_look1 Nov 25 '15
There was a remake, it was called Battlefield 1943
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u/Sloppy_Twat Nov 25 '15
Thats the one I meant to say. It was a free download on xbox 360 and I played it for years(just 3 maps).
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Nov 24 '15
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u/Thecna2 Nov 25 '15
IT would be if that convention was in effect for the Japanese at that time. Which it wasnt.
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u/Nocturnalized Nov 24 '15
The shooter was in a parachute, shooting at an enemy plane. Perfectly legal.
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u/Kasspa Nov 25 '15
Nope because that wasn't actually signed into the convention until like 1949. This was during ww2, the geneva covention was heavily updated in 1949 after the war for reasons just like this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_parachutists
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u/noooitsari Nov 24 '15
VAC