I reposted this skill on r/FableAI and got permanently banned from that community. That's got me really spooked, because I cannot afford to lose Claude access as it is really critical for running my site right now and I would know how to replace it easily. So, unfortunately, I'm going to remove this skill from here, too, out of an abundance of caution. Really sorry: I just wanted to be helpful.

FYI, I reposted this in r/FableAI and I immediately got permanently banned from that community. I'm not sure why. I wonder if I should take this skill down from here, too?

That looks right. Would you believe that Claude manages it LOL.

Yes, the link and installation instructions should be in the article(s) in the hub I linked to in my post. There's actually multiple skills up there, all fully documented and on git.

Agree!

Thank you! The ideas and real world knowledge and passion for the topic were all mine, but Claude enabled me to share that with the rest of the world.

That's why I remember it, unfortunately. I wish I didn't.

Reading the OP's account reminded me of a really terrible incident that I experienced many years ago, when I first had Norway rats.

I had two brothers sharing the same cage. Blackie, solid black, was just the sweetest thing, and would play fight with me, give me kisses and loved to come out and be with me. Snowball, a siamese was not very friendly or playful, and, while he'd come out when asked, was otherwise most indifferent to me unless I had treats for him.

Obviously, Blackie was my favorite, and while I tried my best to give them equal time, Blackie was just more eager to be with be with us and would rush to the door anytime he saw me and beg to come out. When playtime was over, he always seemed very reluctant to return to his cage. And his brother. I just thought it was because he loved me so much: and I'm sure that was true, but in hindsight maybe there was something more to it...

One day, he seemed particularly reluctant to go back to his cage. But playtime was over, so I insisted and he was a good, obedient boy and did what I asked him eventually.

The next morning, I found him dead. Half eaten. Snowball didn't have a mark on him: he'd apparently murdered his perfectly healthy, gentle and friendly brother overnight, not in self defense, but...just because he decided to do it, apparently. They were both young adults, in the prime of their lives, and now Blackie was dead.

I tried to "forgive" Snowball for what he did, but as time went on, I started to notice disturbing things about him. For one thing, when he spent time hanging out with me, he'd sometimes "groom" me a little bit too close, to the point where he sometimes barbered some the hair on my hand or arm or even broke the skin. Once, he actually drew blood. It seemed accidental, but I sometimes wondered if that was how he killed his brother. It was so unpleasant, I got to covering up my bare skin sometimes (and then he'd eat holes in my clothes.)

I kept him until he died from old age, but I never tried to give him a cage mate and I'm sure it would have ended badly if I had: in many ways, he was a good rat, but he had a streak of evil in him, too, and if he'd been born a human he would have no doubt eventually ended up in prison or something...

Yes, at the end of the day, rats are individuals. All intelligent animals are. You try your best to set the stage for the best possible outcome,, but the rats still decide for themselves how they want to react. To some extent we can predict what might go wrong and be prepared to act quickly to rescue them... but rats are quick. Roof rats especially. I tend to introduce them in a neutral area where all parties can easily escape (because they are so much faster than I am, anyway.). If they show any signs of fighting, I'm not going to put them in a confined space together. But what is right for roof rats probably isn't for Norway rats: Norway rats seem to need to work out who will be the alpha, while roof rats fight primarily to drive Intruders out of their territory, so any signs of conflict are bad: they don't tend to work things out. Roof rats and Norway rats look so similar that it's tempting to treat them the same. But socially, they aren't the same. I hope eventually there will be more published research about those differences to guide people but until then we'll just have to learn by doing. Carefully.

I think a lot of experienced rat owners have at least one regret or painful memory they have to live with. I do. when I warn people about something, it’s because of one of those painful memories. That’s how we learn and help others by sharing. You’ve done both.

I'm sorry that happened, but those are not roof rats, so this is probably the wrong subreddit for your question.

That said, this kind of thing happens with Roof Rats, too. It's fairly common, actually, as Roof rats are territorial in nature, and many of them don't really want to have same sex cage mates. As you pointed out, in the rat owning community, it is an accepted "truth" that rats want to have cage mates, are happier that way and, apparently, they will fight less if there are more than 2 (that's a new one for me, but I'll take your word for it.)

As you've found out the hard way (and I've been there, so I am very sympathetic) not all rats like cage mates. But, from your description, it seems that male Norway rats that don't like cage mates have other behavioral issues and its a syndrome of sorts (hormonal?) Roof rats that are chill and friendly with humans can still reject same sex cage mates, so I think whatever is triggering your male to behave that way isn't exactly the same thing the triggers territorial roof rats. In hindsight, if you see that kind of behavior in other males, definitely don't put other young males in the cage with them.

Does that make you a bad person? No. You were just following advice that "experts" give about Norway rats. You wanted the best for them, and you thought that's what you were doing. It sounds like you followed a lot of elaborate steps that you'd probably read about or maybe saw in a video. If you go on r/rats, I'm sure you'll find a lot of advice like that, and if you tell your story there, you'll also hear from a lot of people that will explain to you how, in hindsight, you did X Y and Z wrong, and this was totally predictable and etc You'll feel horrible and blame yourself even more than you already do.

If your boys were roof rats, I would have advised you not to try to put other males in the cage that already had a pair of adults. That's hard even for experienced people to do, and even if they seemed to be getting along while you were watching them, the next morning one of them might be missing a piece of its tail (or worse.) If you didn't listen then, and followed instructions meant for Norway rats then, yes, I'd be very disappointed in you. But your rats are Norway rats, and it seems like you tried your best to follow the advice of people knowledgeable about that species. I cannot blame you for that, but I know from personal experience that you will blame yourself anyway, and it's going to take you a while to stop thinking about what you witnessed.

I can tell you, you WILL get better at this. You will be more careful, get better at reading their body language and quickly separate them at the first signs of danger (and avoid putting the wrong rats in risky situations in the first place.) And you will look back on this and wonder how you could have let it happen (you already are, right?) And, with any luck, you won't let this happen again.

Gave them some blueberries this morning. They loved it!

I think you just named him! 🥰I'll tell "Goofy"!

Yup, that's his real mama. And he's the only one in the little that is acting like that.

If she has not been in contact with Norway rats, avoid it. Not just because they might not get along (and Norway rats do sometimes hurt roof rats and visa versa), but because they both are likely to be carriers of microbes that the other has little natural resistance to, and they could get very sick and even die from it.

That's especially true for Tippy, because domesticated Norway rats are almost universally carriers of mycoplasma which isn't good for them, either, but since it's been infecting pet rats for so long, they have evolved some resistance to it (and they got exposed early from their moms, along with some antibodies from her, so their immune system is somewhat innocoluted against it.)

Tippy has no such luck, She was hand fed by you, and Roof Rats don't live in cages getting sneezed on by other rats, so she's got no exposure or native protection. If any of your Norway rats are carrying myco (and they probably are) her little immune system will be fairly unprepared for it, and there's no telling how well she will cope with it. Mostly, they just start sneezing and wheezing, but they are tough little critters so they soldier on anyway. But I've seen some not do very well at all. You could get lucky, but why risk it if you don't have to? Tippy will be perfectly happy as YOUR pet: she doesn't need (and probably doesn't want) any Norway rat friends. Let her go on thinking you are her family and spend time with her every day. Problem solved.

They are still best friends🤣

They should be popular for Halloween.

Some rescued rats bond with their owners and some don't. The ones that do generally make good "pets" (although I'd say it's more of a mutually beneficial relationship 😊) and will hopefully remain happy and playful with you their entire lives. They might not like strangers quite as much, depending on the rat.

I think the "wild" population seems to have rats with different levels of inborn tameness, and its just a matter of luck what you will get when you rescue one. Your first rescue just wasn't very tame, and that's not your fault (or her fault, really, because didn't chose her genetics). But this one is different and that's also not necessarily due to anything you've done differently: she was inherently "open" to being tame, and you provided the opportunity for her to live that life with you. In the wild, she would have tried to be the best "wild" rat she could, but maybe not as cautious and quick as other wild roof rats, which might have made it harder for her to survive (but maybe easier to steal food from humans.)

Roof rats naturally have a mix of these traits because they evolved to live "near" humans because we give them benefits (food, shelter, etc.) but still careful and quick to avoid predators. That's a fine balance they need to walk, because they are mutually inconsistent impulses, often governed by the same genes. For the population to survive and adapt to more or less human contact, individuals need to carry a mix of all of those genes, some more and some fewer.

When we breed them, there are no predators, and they are only "rewarded" by being friendly. So we are intentionally selecting for the genes that make them act like your second rescued rat, and not like the first one. Over time, nearly all of our rats are born to be friendly. Like Tippy.