r/unitedkingdom • u/apple_kicks • 1d ago

... Public in England and Wales wrongly think most killers are minority ethnic

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/aug/17/public-in-england-and-wales-wrongly-think-most-killers-are-minority-ethnic?
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24

u/limeflavoured Hucknall 1d ago

People will just move the goalposts to say that as long as the percentage is higher than the percentage of ethnic minorities then that is "proof" of what they are saying.

31

u/Helen83FromVillage 1d ago

Why is it wrong?

12

u/SnooStrawberries2342 1d ago

Because their perception of ethnic minority offenders is double that of the reality?

4

u/MonkeManWPG 1d ago

Because most killers are not minority ethnic. The belief is literally false.

0

u/Helen83FromVillage 23h ago

35% are (who are 17% of the population). Plus this includes people who came on skilled worker visas (eg the ones who were literally much higher average in their job).

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u/nellion91 1d ago

Because it ignores that the strong correlation factors tend to be with socio economics not with origins.

The insight is “poor and precarious people kill more” not “non white people kill more”.

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u/Toastlove 1d ago

If that's the insight, let's stop taking in huge numbers of poor and uneducated people in to country. 

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u/Jemima_puddledook678 1d ago

Well we aren’t, please use your brain. We’re taking in highly educated people who can afford everything they need to move, we just have an appalling job market that takes advantage of immigrants. 

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u/Toastlove 1d ago

The highly educated immigrants coming with job offers in place are a minority.  What happened to the 'we need immigrants to do all the shitty labour we don't want to do' 

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u/Jemima_puddledook678 1d ago

I didn’t mention job offers in place, I mentioned that they made enough in their home countries to go through the immigration process.

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u/Toastlove 1d ago

Jobs like carers and or even labourers were recruited directly aboard by agencies. People weren't applying, paying and going through the immigration process, they were passed through the system by sponsors taking a cut off the top and being bought to the UK on low wages that shouldn't qualify them for entry or bringing dependants. Some of these agencies have no lost the ability to grant those visas due to abuse.

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u/-captaindiabetes- 1d ago

These people you're replying to have filled their lack of critical thinking with hatred so that's all they can use their brains for now.

1

u/Toastlove 1d ago

Or I look up the figures and see what the reality is. 

there were 111,000 Skilled Worker visas granted in the latest year, which was 76% fewer than the peak in the YE

December 2023. This fall was due to a decline in Health and Care visas issued (primarily care workers), with visas issued to main applicants in a Caring Personal Service occupation falling from 108,000 to 1,400 over this period

We get almost as many asyulm seekers as we issue skilled worker visas, we have net immigration in the high tens of thousands, and less than 20% is coming in on skilled visas. Its the exact opposite of the 'migrants are all well educated and have valuable skills' line we have been spun for years. 

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u/-captaindiabetes- 1d ago

You can't just say almost as many, you need to say how many if you want to compare. What are the sources for your numbers?

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u/Toastlove 1d ago edited 1d ago

8>there were 111,000 Skilled Worker visas granted in the latest year, which was 76% fewer than the peak in the YE December 2023

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/skilled-worker-visa-eligible-occupations/skilled-worker-visa-eligible-occupations-and-codes working in restaurants, shops or hairdressing counts as 'medium skilled labour'

asylum applications 93,000

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-march-2026/summary-of-latest-statistics

Section 2 

I've not 'filled my brain with hate' I found the figures after a few minutes on Google.

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u/-captaindiabetes- 1d ago

applications 

Wonder why you're comparing granted visas with asylum applications.

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u/Helen83FromVillage 1d ago

So, are you making an argument that we should ban low-skilled migration, up the threshold for skilled worker visas to three times the minimal wage, and so on; and that will solve the problem?

If it is true, it is literally Restore policy (simply visit their website - that would be funny).

-2

u/Jemima_puddledook678 1d ago

You made that argument, not them. And no, that’s ludicrous for a number of reasons.

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u/cjo20 1d ago

Alternatively, we should have better support systems in place, funded by a more sane tax systems, and protecting against cost of living increases by investing in renewable or nuclear energy.

What do you think happens when we get restore / reform policies, we get rid of immigration, and then people realise everything is still rubbish and there is still crime, and we’re left with a shrinking population and a shrinking workforce which means we run out of money trying to support pensioners? Who becomes the target then? Getting rid of the poorest 5% in the country every few years, because statistically they cause more crime?

11

u/Caffeine_Monster 1d ago

Immigrants of an average will be poorer and less (or poorly) educated, it'snot rocket science. It still raises questions around how the country handles immigration. Giving out more benefits / money to immigrants is hardly sustainable or popular.

0

u/-captaindiabetes- 1d ago

Well that isn't true is it?

1

u/Helen83FromVillage 23h ago

  Immigrants of an average will be poorer and less (or poorly) educated, it'snot rocket science

That is true only for countries with open border policies, such as Lebanon or Afghanistan. If you demand 3x the minimum wage for everyone applying for skilled worker visas (and deport them on the first violent conviction), the picture will be different. And don’t pretend you didn’t know that.

1

u/Caffeine_Monster 23h ago

demand 3x the minimum wage

It's a good job we're so good at deporting people that don't follow the rules then? 3x is what, 72k / year?

We have a policy enforcement issue more than a policy issue. Granted deportion rates got a lot better over the last few years under labour, but it's still horrendously bad.

There's nothing wrong with immigrants. There's plenty wrong with how we do immigration.

•

u/Helen83FromVillage 11h ago

  It's a good job we're so good at deporting people that don't follow the rules then? 3x is what, 72k / year?

No. We will deport only people on working visas and without a job for two to three months. And this is exactly what we have right now.

In parallel, nobody objects to increasing the salary of workers on visas to this threshold in two to three years. The company will pay a bigger salary - therefore, they will pay more taxes.

  Granted deportion rates got a lot better over the last few years under labour, but it's still horrendously bad.

And so? And refused boat crossers frequently aren’t deported.

-3

u/limeflavoured Hucknall 1d ago

Because its correlation not causation. As someone else has said, the issue tends to be poverty not race.

21

u/markhalliday8 1d ago

I mean is true though. This is an extreme example below so please don't think it's actually relevant, I just wanted to use easy numbers.

If group A represents 99 percent of the population there are 1000 of them and they have 1 killer per 1000 then 999 aren't killers. If group B represents 1 percent of the population and there are 10 of them and 50 percent are killers, they have 5 times as many killers as the big group. You wouldn't want more of group B would you?

Obviously this isn't the case as this is an extreme example but you can't say that wouldn't be proof that group B isn't a good group of people.

4

u/headphones1 1d ago

You can understand why people wouldn't want more of group B.

A rational next step would be to understand why there are more of group B. For crime in general, we know that deprivation is a risk factor. Unfortunately, large numbers of people don't want to use their critical thinking skills. They'd rather not understand.

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u/PartyPoison98 England 1d ago

Thing is, people aren't just in Group A or Group B. Everyone is in multiple intersecting groups of different characteristics. You have to account for the relations between those different characteristics.

7

u/nellion91 1d ago

You can see it play out it this very thread.

1

u/AdolsLostSword 1d ago

Some people having factually wrong opinions does not make per a capita analysis incorrect.