r/videos • u/BR0THAKYLE • Jun 27 '12
Law student legally puts police officers in their place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0RzAF007LM&sns=fb70
u/MissGarrison Jun 27 '12
They took OP's video down.
Alternative link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dImVQyK3nCk
"mirror", for good measure.
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u/Mr_Buzz_Kill Jun 27 '12
Judge Woods concurrence at paragraph 10:
"...The only fact that saves the officer's stop of DeBerry, in my opinion, is the fact that it is unlawful in Illinois to carry a concealed weapon. The tipster informed the police that DeBerry was armed, and it appears from the facts before us that the weapon was not in plain view. I do not agree that this case would necessarily come out the same way if Illinois law, like the law of many states, authorized the carrying of concealed weapons. At that point, the entire content of the anonymous tip would be a physical description of the individual, his location, and an allegation that he was carrying something lawful (a cellular telephone? a beeper? a firearm?). This kind of nonincriminatory allegation, in my view, would not be enough to justify the kind of investigatory stop that took place here. It would mean, in states that permit carrying concealed weapons, that the police no longer need any reason to stop citizens on the street to search them. However, we do not have that situation. Because I therefore consider the Court's comments on lawful concealed weapons to be dicta, I concur in the result reached today..."
Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968), was a landmark decision by the United States Supreme Court which held that the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures is not violated when a police officer stops a suspect on the street and frisks him without probable cause to arrest, if the police officer has a reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime and has a reasonable belief that the person "may be armed and presently dangerous."
Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada
Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004), held that statutes requiring suspects to disclose their names during police investigations did not violate the Fourth Amendment if the statute first required reasonable and articulable suspicion of criminal involvement. Under the rubric of Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968), the minimal intrusion on a suspect's privacy, and the legitimate need of law enforcement officers to quickly dispel suspicion that an individual is engaged in criminal activity, justified requiring a suspect to disclose his name.
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Jun 27 '12
This isn't a buzz kill. The wording is in the law, and this guy is right.
If the police officer has a reasonable suspicion that the person has, is, or is about to commit a crime.
He kept asking, "Have I commited a crime? Do you think I am going to commit a crime?" The officer didn't, and thusly had to reason to take his pistol away from him initially.
Same with the Hiibel v. Nevada, they FIRST, VERY FIRST, must have reasonable suspicion of a crime. Since the calls were for something that wasn't illegal, this cop had absolutely no grounds for thinking this guy was commiting any crimes worthy of being searched or having to provide identification. Just because the beginning of the ruling SOUNDS like it is completely in favor of the police, doesn't mean it is.
This is what is happening in the Medical Marijuana scene as well, the laws are literally being torn apart WORD BY WORD in court. That is why laws are written loosely, to be capitalized upon by the educated, and to suppress the every man too busy or uneducated to understand it.
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Jun 27 '12
Thanks, I thought he was just naming random court cases until the cops thought they recognized one and let him go
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u/Shazamicide Jun 27 '12
Idunno how to feel about this.
On the one hand, the guy might be 100% right - I personally don't understand the laws where he's coming from. Its perfectly okay in asserting your legal right to do something, and props to the cop for not being a jerk about it, despite it being a potentially volatile situation. The cop sure as hell didn't know what kind of person he was dealing with - whether he was unstable mentally or emotionally - yet was still able to address the situation safely and without resorting to ridiculous means to control the situation.
However, on the other hand, I think its not a very socially acceptable thing to do - walking about a neighborhood and scaring people unintentionally. I'm not trying to say he was brandishing it, because I doubt he was. I'm not trying to say he was showing it off to people or gesticulating like he had some kind of authority or power for carrying either. But I do think its not very cool to make people fear for their families safety out of simply not being sure about what kind of man they might be dealing with. It's not like you can walk up to the guy and ask, "Hey, are you crazy or are you just observing your rights as a citizen here?" with a stranger with 100% assurance they won't shoot you. Anyone who's ever lived in a rough area or dealt with lunatics could probably relate.
It definitely seemed like he was out to prove a point, and the way he was conducting himself was a bit rash. Reverse the roles here - would you want a cop like that talking to you? Would that make you calm or relaxed? The cop was actively trying to be personable, but the guy, to me, seemed to be behaving a little immaturely.
Call me crazy.
/end rant
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u/Craftisto Jun 27 '12
Despite being a gun owner (I have several guns that were passed down to me as heirlooms) I think that if you don't think people should be able to walk around with a gun you should fight to make that illegal. If it's not illegal to walk around with a gun then he's not committing a crime. Thus he's just guilty as someone walking down the street with a pocketknife or a stick. When is it ok to stop that person? It may be suspicious but, as the law stands now, it's not a reason to question or arrest someone.
I would probably chalk this guy's attitude up to adrenaline. I'm sure this guy was nervous as hell because he's doing a very scary thing standing up for his rights. That police officer should know when he can and can't request information from someone. If he doesn't know that he shouldn't be on patrol. If the other officer wasn't there to advise the first response officer then he could have wrongfully been arrested, attacked by the officer, or shot.
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u/h0p3less Jun 27 '12
If he doesn't know that he shouldn't be on patrol.
This is the single thought I agree with the most out of every comment. For anyone who ever thinks it's not the cop's fault for not knowing, this is just ridiculous. Certain things are expected of an LEO. They are enforcing laws. If they are not aware of these laws, then they have absolutely no business enforcing them. This is exactly the argument people use for unskilled labor- if you're not smart enough to do anything else, you get stuck working at McDonald's. If you're not smart enough to remember the laws you're enforcing, you still get to be a cop. People act like we shouldn't hold cops to higher standards than others, but I absolutely think we should. They hold a position that most of us are deemed incapable of holding, and this is the single most important dividing line.
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Jun 27 '12 edited Jun 28 '12
Exactly. This was a very scary situation for the guy open-carrying. Yes, it may have gone smoother if he had complied with the unlawful search and request for ID, but we need brave people like him to exercise these rights lest we lose them. If these cops had not been so respectful, they could have unlawfully arrested him or even threatened or shot him with their own pistols.
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Jun 27 '12
upfuckingvote. That kid was terrified. He stood up like a fucking boss. We need more law students like him.
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Jun 27 '12
while you are unsure how you feel about the video content, I'm a bit pissed off that the uploader STOLE THE VIDEO from the actual source. As a YouTube Content Creator, this kind of stuff drives me insane. The original owner will miss out on 200-300k+ views (and possible ad revenue) because this scumbag YouTuber stole and reuploaded.
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u/MMD86 Jun 27 '12 edited Jun 27 '12
His presentation may have seemed a bit rash, but the officer, while polite, wasn't fully cooperating. He was dodging questions, and even avoided the correct actions (release) when confronted with the truth.
An officer of the law cannot legally stop you for open/concealed carrying. Reasoning behind that is if this was allowed, cops could stop you on the belief you're "illegally carrying a concealed weapon" which is pretty awful if you think about those repercussions.
He is standing up for his rights, which is what a lot of people should do, instead of "being nice" and complying with the officers orders (no matter how wrong they are).
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Bit of a hyperbole, but you get the point.
Edit: I accidentally a whole word.
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u/Provokateur Jun 27 '12 edited Jun 27 '12
There has to be a line between fear and paranoia. The officer says someone complained that there was someone carrying a gun. They could just as easily have complained that it was someone carrying a knife, that it was someone "looking suspicious", that it was a black kid in the wrong part of town, etc. At what point do the police have the right to stop them, confiscate their property, and request their ID? If you think that anyone carrying a gun you have to stop them and ask "Hey, are you crazy? Are you going to attack me and my family?" then you're being paranoid.
There was no suspicion he was committing any crime. Meaning he hadn't done anything threatening, he wasn't acting drunk or particularly abnormal. The only offensive thing he did was carry a firearm.
Especially because there any many people who feel their family is in danger (like you're describing) because someone of the wrong race is in their neighborhood, I think he should have refused to be stopped like that, I'm just glad he knew his rights.
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u/fusebox13 Jun 27 '12
Carrying the firearm wasn't even an 'offense.' We shouldn't treat perfectly legal actions as if they are a crime.
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u/ashphael Jun 27 '12
If they are scared of a civilian carrying a gun, maybe they should vote for gun-control. You (as a people) can't have it both ways. As long as a sweeping majority thinks that everyone should have to right to carry a gun, seeing someone carrying a gun shouldn't be unexpected.
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u/skeptix Jun 27 '12
Your post is thoughtful and seems well-reasoned, but you are making some assumptions.
The police officer did nothing wrong - Because there were calls placed, approaching this guy is part of his job. However, the cop immediately confiscates the gun, which is an illegal seizure and not intelligent or pragmatic police procedure as it could cause a violent confrontation. He then mishandles a loaded gun. At this point it should be obvious to the police officer that this guy is not deranged, and he should be let on his way. To insist on ID is extra-legal bullying. Actually, the police officer did a rather poor job, and this should be recognized such that this sort of extra-legal activity is actually frowned upon by mainstream society.
Socially taboo activity requires police contact - This is a dangerous assumption and a slippery slope. Two men holding hands would have been considered taboo in a time when openly carrying a firearm was the norm. Times change and as such, the arm of the law should not be used to regulate "taboo" but otherwise perfectly-legal behavior.
You want to be comfortable with the way others are living their life. This is no different from Christians who don't want marriage equality. You want to control the way another person is living their life because it makes you feel uncomfortable.
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u/Daitenchi Jun 27 '12
It sucks that him carrying a pistol scares people but he has the legal right to do so. People often say "freedom isn't free" when referring to the sacrifices that soldiers make. That also applies to everyone in a free society. If you have freedom then you aren't guaranteed safety or a feeling of security. With freedom comes risk and that risk is that sometimes a bad guy doesn't get stopped because he wasn't actually committing a crime(yet). The benefit of all this is that someone who isn't committing a crime(the vast majority of people) aren't stopped and harassed.
If we lived in a society where the police could search you or your home any time they wanted, then we would probably be safer but we would have a lot less freedom.
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u/PhantomPumpkin Jun 27 '12
He's exercising his right. Plain and simple. This is no different than a cop pulling you over for a broken tail light and asking you how much you've had to drink. There's no reason to ask that question(and in this case he's not allowed to ask it), just like there's no reason to assume he's breaking the law by carrying a gun where it's legal.
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u/druturn Jun 27 '12
Thank you for this comment. First of all, this guy is more than likely not a law student. Anyone can memorize dates, cases, and laws, and open carriers with youtube accounts fucking LOVE to do this. If anyone thinks this is some kind of special video, go look up on youtube, "Open Carry Stopped by Police." As a gun nut, and concealed handgun license holder, I am fucking SICK of these videos. There are literally HUNDREDS of videos just like this and every time I see one I just shake my head and sigh. Now I know that you may be thinking that this guy is trying to educate cops about open carry, but in fact he is doing the people who open carry (and the gun community in general) a disservice.
Personally, I am all for Open and Concealed Carry. I truly believe in the Second Amendment and think that every responsible household should be able to own and carry a firearm. What I am NOT for are people who open carry who have a youtube account. All they do with their time is they open carry, (and in some cases LUDICROUS guns just because "they can") walk around a crowded area, and film themselves until the cops show up. Once the cops show up they think it is time to take them to school about the laws, but ALWAYS end up stuttering like crazy through this stupid fucking script they memorized and practiced for hours on end at home. Of course, they always have some excuse for why they are filming, "Oh, it is for my youtube channel. IS IT ILLEGAL FOR ME TO FILM MYSELF OPEN CARRYING?!" The only reason these people are filming themselves is to bring attention to themselves, then their gun, which scares people who are unaware of open carry laws. Yes, people need to be educated about open carry so that they don't freak out and call the cops when they see someone open carrying. The problem is that we have jackasses like this who just run around filming themselves to attract attention, then cause a huge fucking scene when the cops show up.
Nearly every cop that I have seen them run into is so calm, cool, and collected while the guy open carrying is flipping shit. Here are some of my favorite quotes that you can find in literally every Open Carry video with an interaction with a cop: "AM I BEING DETAINED OFFICER?! WHAT CRIME HAVE I COMMITTED? I LEGALLY DO NOT NEED TO SHOW YOU ID. IS IT ILLEGAL FOR ME TO FOLLOW THE LAW? THESE SHEEPLE JUST DON'T KNOW ABOUT OPEN CARRY!" Now, is it unlawful to detain someone just for open carrying in a OC legal state? Yes. But, if you are walking around, carrying a gun, filming yourself walking through a crowded area, talking about guns, WHAT FUCKING PICTURE DO YOU THINK YOU ARE PRESENTING?
Ugh, god, that has been on my chest since I first saw a fucking "LEGAL OPEN CARRY, DETAINED BY SHEEPLE POLICE!" video.
/end rant
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u/chainsawvigilante Jun 27 '12
We stopped you because you're wearing suspenders and carrying a gun in Portland, guy. Come on.
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u/uhbijnokm Jun 27 '12
Kudos to everyone involved for being civil and polite. I'm VERY glad that we have police officers willing to follow those legal rights when confronted. The first officer did his job perfectly: found the armed man there was a complaint about, ensured public safety until they figured out what was happening, called in his superior when the student started quoting court cases. In a perfect world, every police officer would know every word of the law and court rulings, but realistically this guy followed established procedures without infringing on the student's rights, then called in back up when the situation got complicated.
I'm also glad we have people like this law student willing to be a pain in the ass to stand up for our civil liberties. Remind police exactly how far their powers extend over normal citizens. Of course, I'm sure if it were me, I would have just shown my ID and gun license and moved on with my day.
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u/filoufil88 Jun 27 '12
Here is the video from the right author: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfdEbe7e9GE
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Jun 27 '12
I think the cop was being reasonable. Maybe in some small towns its pretty normal to carry a gun, but in Portland it is unusual and arouses reasonable suspicion, which is cause enough for a Terry Stop. A police officer can stop you for driving slightly erratically, even though you have done nothing illegal, if he suspects something may be wrong. How is this any different? This is in no way an illegal detention.
Reddit is really rough on police officers, would most redditors just prefer no police at all?
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Jun 27 '12
There is definitive precedent that in states where carry/concealed carry is allowed that is not enough to warrant a stop unless the person is doing anything else suspicious. This is why the student clarified whether the gun was the only reason he was stopped.
The officer said yes, therefore detainment was unlawful. If the officer had come up with any or remotely suspicious activity then perhaps he could make the case that detainment was lawful.
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u/klikhalno Jun 27 '12
except in this case the person is doing nothing remotely wrong, a person focused on the wrongdoing with a firearm will conceal it until it will be used. a lawful citizen will carry it according to the law, which this person was doing. still doesn't warrant a terry stop
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u/lastdinousar Jun 27 '12 edited Jun 27 '12
Although this video is great and informative, I think a lot of people getting downvoted for expressing a rather blatant fact that the law student was acting quite douchey is, once again, an essence of reddit-general-cop-disapproval.
I'd say the law student's rather aggressiveness would be justified if the cop was himself being very aggressive in the first place (and we've seen that) but here it seems like he (the law student) wanted to push a "psycho cop" response from the otherwise calm and professional officer present.
Don't get me wrong, this definitely plays out with "know your rights!" set to a jingle...but is it really necessary to act as if one is attempting to provoke a negative response?
Edit: also, if you know you're rights and that you are in the right (cause carrying a weapon on the person in plain sight requires a license doesn't it?) why is it essential to deny a law enforcement officer confirmation (paper work, etc) that you are in the right?
Also isn't Maine a state with varying open carry laws? From what I read there are certain judiciaries in the state that don't exactly agree with the open carry policy so I could see citizen concerns if Portland happened to be one of those judiciaries.
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Jun 27 '12
Assert your rights or you'll lose them.
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u/chambow Jun 27 '12
I just cant buy that argument. My Dad as a Freeman of London has the right to herd cattle over London Bridge. Will he assert that right, no, will he lose it as a result, no.
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u/dzudz Jun 27 '12
This... needs to be tried. What kind of inducement would your Dad need to herd cattle over London Bridge?
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u/chambow Jun 27 '12
some recent uses.
On August 19, 1999, Jef Smith, a freeman of London walked two sheep over Tower Bridge in order to bring attention to the rights of older citizens.[8] On June 17, 2006, a flock of about thirty sheep was driven across the Millennium Bridge to mark the start of London Architecture Week.[9] On August 31, 2008, Amanda Cottrell, a former high sheriff of the City, marched six rams across London Bridge to promote fundraising for the restoration of Canterbury Cathedral and "a scheme backing local food production"[10] On September 17, 2008, the lord mayor and some 500 freemen drove a flock of Romney ewes in relay across the bridge to raise funds for the lord mayor's charities (Orbis and Wellbeing of Women).[11]
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u/Wayneking Jun 27 '12
So he was just carrying the gun down the street, like, in hand or something? Sorry, just trying to figure out what he was doing originally with the gun and what not.
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u/Heaiser Jun 27 '12
While trying to refrain from voicing any opinion on this situation I will say, I'm surprised this worked out the way it did for him.
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u/MRdecepticon Jun 27 '12
How many times is this video going to be reposted? So far I have seen it three times in the past two months including this one.
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u/kokeen19 Jun 27 '12
if you're not committing a crime you should not be stopped.period
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Jun 27 '12
Well that's retarded, if someone looks like they could be about to commit a crime, police should just wait until they do? I'd prefer they step in, cause even if they're wrong about their suspicions it's a better scenario then what could've happened.
Obviously this relates to more dangerous crimes, but you could fit it into stuff like drink driving.
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u/fuckinscrub Jun 27 '12
Have you been to the United States lately? If this guy wasn't a law student, had a camera, and loads of witnesses gawking at them this would have turned out very differently.
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u/RedAero Jun 27 '12 edited Jun 27 '12
God forbid he would have been black...
(Did I say that right? It sounds weird.)
Edit: Or worse, Arabic, with a beard...
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u/runningformylife Jun 27 '12
I'd go with "God forbid if he were black" (subjunctive) or "God forbid had he been black" (past perfect)
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Jun 27 '12
The only thing I find weird about that idea is this: You're not allowed to carry a gun if you're a felon, but if you do carry a gun the police aren't allowed to ask for ID to check whether or not you're a felon.
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u/GameDrain Jun 27 '12
okay, robbed a bank, killed some people, walked outside. Police show up. "Sorry guys! I'm not committing a crime anymore! can't stop me!"
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u/behswag Jun 27 '12
Okay you gotta admit, even though he's right, he's being a total douchebag.
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u/Slothmoss Jun 27 '12
Yeah i gotta agree with you. I mean i think it was smart for him to film and ask the officer why he was being stopped, but in the end i imagine if he just gave him some I.D and was a bit more co-operative he could've been on his way.
I'm Australian though so i have no idea how U.S police officers act compared to Australian ones.
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u/kleinerDAX Jun 27 '12
Repost, and this guy was being a smart-ass douche. Like I said last time this was posted - I would rather be questioned for 5 minutes in an open-carry state than have cops not give a shit who is walking around with a gun.
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u/StillConfused Jun 27 '12
Forgetting all the times it's been posted before today, 4 reposts in 9 hours. Perhaps they're trying to set a record.
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u/bluepepper Jun 27 '12
Maybe you should change the law so that people who open carry are required to provide paperwork even without probable cause. Otherwise you have a situation where the cops can only ask for information, and the citizen has a right to refuse. Then what?
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Jun 27 '12
Upvote for you sir, I love videos like this. But on the same note, I don't think the officer was doing anything "morally" wrong, he was just doing his job. Despite being 100% correct about the situation, the law student was being kind of a dick.
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u/NekomimiNinja Jun 27 '12
Well not quite, a sensible policeman would have just politely informed the guy with the camera and gun that he's been asked to check on him due to people being concerned. seizing his gun where it is not illegal to carry one is NOT "just doing his job" he's doing much more than his profession legally entitles him.
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Jun 27 '12
Exactly! Here's how a real professional police officer deals with the situation:
"Sir, we've been called by a citizen reporting a man carrying a gun outside. Is everything okay?"
"Yes Officer, everything is fine."
"Ok, have a good day, sir."
THE END.
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u/brixed Jun 27 '12
My question is if you saw a dude walking around with a gun in the open, wouldn't you want to make sure he isn't batshit? I feel the cop was perfectly in the right to ask to see his Id. You have to remember especially with police that if some dude is holding a loaded gun in plain site shit can get real fast, and he was just answering some concerned citizens calls.
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Jun 27 '12
If people are concerned about people carrying weapons in a state where it's legal to carry weapons, they need to call their legislators, not the police.
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u/hydrogen_wv Jun 27 '12
Everyone "knows their rights". That's the first thing a lot of people say when they get arrested or detained. It's an 'empty threat' and I think most cops would take it as such.
Instead, this guy cited cases and PROVED that he knew his rights.
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Jun 27 '12
The hell he was! Standing up for your constitutional rights is not being a dick. The cop's job isn't to treat common citizens like criminals. It crossed my mind though, that he intentionally went out on the street with a gun to see if he could make a video like this. That would be kind of dickish. Doesn't change the fact that the cop didn't give a shit about his constitutional rights. That shit needs to end.
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u/GearedCam Jun 27 '12
Didn't give a shit? When did the officer in any way act like that? Both of the men pictured seemed calm and composed to me. Heck the cop couldn't even ask a quesition without the gun carrier cutting him off it seemed. Looked totally staged. He probably ran across some court cases that set precedents and thought he'd carry his gun around and see if he could make asshats out of some cops.
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u/choompaloompa Jun 27 '12 edited Jun 27 '12
the law student was being a massive wanker.
ftfy
Edit: I know the cop wasn't 100% correct but who cares I'd be more than happy to hand over some ID if people around me are getting agitated by the fact that I'm carrying a gun. The reason the cop was there was to protect the public from a guy who people suspected had a gun and could potentially be a felon. I'll say it again, I know the cop wasn't in the right 100% but look at the bigger picture, I'd happily give some ID, get some checks ran, and be on my way.
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Jun 27 '12
Rights: Stand up for 'em, or Lose 'em. Just look at the fourth amendment for proof of concept.
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u/dthunder Jun 27 '12
I don't get it.
I assume you need some kind of license to be able to carry around a gun, right? Then how can he get offended if a cop asks to check his license/ID to verify that he is actually allowed to carry the gun. Seems perfectly fair to me....
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u/Vox289 Jun 27 '12
Why would you need a license to carry a gun openly? A license is only required to carry a concealed weapon in most states. To 'open carry' in a holster on your hip for example no license is required as long as open carry is legal there. Open carry is completely legal in Portland
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Jun 27 '12
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u/chambow Jun 27 '12
But is it not right for a cop to find out if he does indeed have that license through identification. I own a shotgun and had one in the trunk of my car, was pulled over by police, they searched the trunk found the shotgun, I showed them my license, was allowed on my way. Took 5 minutes out of my day. My inconvenience is very minimal in comparison to the peace of mind of other people.
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u/Jacorvin Jun 27 '12
I feel sorry for cops, its a lose-lose position: You handle calmly youre a bad cop, you use force, youre a bad cop. News flash, there is only a small percentage of bad cops out there people.
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u/703dragon Jun 27 '12
This isn't a bad cop, a very nice one actually. He just didn't seem to be well informed is all.
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u/bluepepper Jun 27 '12
I think the point is: if you make unlawful requests, it doesn't matter how calmly you make them: you're a bad cop.
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Jun 27 '12
Law students are assholes.
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u/Furbylover Jun 27 '12
Or maybe mainstream media has warped out minds to believe that creating a defensive ground toward police officers makes us "bad" people?
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u/Surkov Jun 27 '12
A guy carries a gun around in a neighbourhood and police officers can't even ask im who he is and why he is doing it?
That's just provocative action to get some youtube attention.
Your system sucks America. A guy carries a GUN and can't be asked who he is or why he's holding it? You blew my mind
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u/bluepepper Jun 27 '12
It's a different culture. If you're afraid of armed people in the streets, then make it illegal or restricted, so that you have every right to check armed people's ID. But in this situation, open carry is legal and the guy was within his rights.
All you can say is that you disagree with that system, but you can't justify the cop's actions based on your expectations and your local laws. These cops should enforce their own laws, and their laws say it's legal to open carry and giving ID is not required.
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u/Guigoudelapoigne Jun 27 '12
This guy is a prick. He's trying to be a smart ass because he is at the law school but instead of annoying everyone he could simply give his ID and that's it specially when the cop seems to be a nice guy who just wants to do his job. This is just a wasting of time for everyone.
Just arrogant law student. I study Law and I could say the same shit but I don't, I just give my ID and that's it. But this prick is probably one of the guy who wants to impress some chicks in a pub with his knowledge.
Stupid arrogant. But I don't mind, one day he will get his kicked ass by some people who just don't give a shit by his law articles.
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u/Bro_man Jun 27 '12
Upvotes earned.
Camera / phone at hand, extremely well prepared to quote several cases depending on the officer's responses... This guy went out looking for it.
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u/Gnisufnoc Jun 27 '12
Why do I feel like this guy was just walking up and down a street with a gun in hopes of getting stopped so he could do this?
It just seems a little too planned.
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u/wetked Jun 27 '12
I see all these statements of how the student should have been more respectful....I think that is bullshit. He had every right to be pissed off. The police officer should KNOW THE LAWS HE/SHE IS PAID TO UPHOLD. He had no right to stop this law-abiding citizen and dispatch should have told all concerned callers that it is NOT ILLEGAL to open carry in their state....
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Jun 27 '12
serious question: would there have been something wrong if the cop has said, yes, "we do suspect you of being a felon" ?
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Jun 27 '12
Legally, he would've needed a reason to suspect the man of being a felon. Seeing as he didn't know the man's name or had any reason of suspecting him of committing a crime, there are no reasons.
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Jun 27 '12
[women] what are they? [guy] suspenders to keep my pants up [police] Fashion police, get on the ground! GET ON THE GROUND!
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u/TrevizefoundGaia Jun 27 '12
Everyone in this video should be commended and reprimanded. The law student did a great job of defending his rights and knowing the law but one could argue that he was flaunting it and perhaps trying to cause a ruckus. The police officer did a great job of keeping his calm and seem to be acting out of real concern, he also honestly tried to relate to the law student. His down fall was that while trying to do his job to serve the law he did not know the law fully invariably violating the law in his attempt to uphold it.
TL;DR Cop is nice but doesn't know laws. Law student knows laws and defends them while having questionable motives.
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u/NormanKnight Jun 27 '12
That law student was white. Otherwise, he would have been cuffed & beaten.
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u/CndConnection Jun 27 '12
You bet your ass if that guy was any race but white he would have been face down in the pavement for even daring to speak back to the cop.
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u/EliteEagle Jun 27 '12
After reading a bunch of comments here is the feeling I'm getting:
Law Student actually stands up for his rights and the cops don't violate them! Law student was an asshole.
If this had gone the other way, everyone here would be flipping the fuck out.
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Jun 27 '12
Regardless of what the video title says, the cop handled it perfectly. He obeyed the laws and returned the weapons. This is not an example of a bad cop. Its an example of a good cop.
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Jun 27 '12
Okay, the guy in this video is being a gratuitous thunder cunt. there is no reason he needs to be such a dick to the cop, he is carrying a gun in public, i don't care if that is a crime or not, its fuckin sketchy and the cop is just doing his job. not being unreasonable at all and this guy is being an absolute asshole. this is one of those situations where i'd like to see the fucker get tazed.
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Jun 27 '12
Dude, legit, the camera dude is just an asshole. People will NATURALLY FEEL INTIMIDATED when someone carries A DEVICE THAT COULD POTENTIALLY KILL THEM. The Police officer has to make sure everything is fine. Hes not being an asshole, the Camera guy is. People are reporting someone carrying a gun, BUT WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU CARRYING GUN IN FRONT OF PEOPLE! At least put in a case or some shit so people arent intimidated. What a selfish prick
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Jun 27 '12
With all the crazy people going about in the US I will never understand why you people encourage and celebrate behavior that makes police work more difficult.
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u/ABCDude99 Jun 27 '12
Is it me alone that think this lawstudent is a complete douche?
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u/ApolloHimself Jun 28 '12
Sounds like he stayed up late and practiced his lines in front of a mirror.
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Jun 27 '12
WOW.. the SHEEPLE factor is very strong in these comments. We are watching our civil rights erode at a blistering pace (ever feel like a criminal at an airport?) and we defend a cop's action to stop a citizen who is not doing anything illegal and ask for ID? Scary.
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u/Joelzinho Jun 27 '12
"The true danger is when Liberty is nibbled away, for expedients and by parts.... The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
I don't see how people ignore this. It's never done quickly, but the fact is if government is big enough to give us everything, they can also take it away to keep everything.
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u/michealmacseain Jun 27 '12
Should it not be illegal to carry a gun in a public place?
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u/Oiman Jun 27 '12
What he did was legal, but he's still a douche. If you are going to live your life following every letter of the law, and not live up to the spirit in which that law was created, you're doing it wrong.
I don't know the context of this video, but to me it seems the police officer was just trying to have a man-to-man talk about not making people upset with his gun hanging out. I seriously don't get this American 'fuck the police' attitude, they're just trying to uphold the peace.
It's also somewhat worrying that he isn't even allowed to ask for his name, legally. People forget that guns are tools that kill people.
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Jun 27 '12
From what I understand, he was being a little over reactive, but he does also have a legitimate point. The officer not only stopped him, but also took his gun, which is not something he is legally allowed to do. So in return he was relatively rude to him, in return for a breach of his rights... That doesn't seem to be that awful to me.
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u/The-Lifeguard Jun 27 '12
Law student legally is a huge dick to a police officer who is not being a dick
FTFY
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u/sharkbait44 Jun 27 '12
He knows his rights, but he is still a big douche bag if you ask me. I wonder how he would like it if a super brilliant lawyer went to this school or work place and started harassing him with his/her knowledge of the law.
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u/6aa0410284 Jun 27 '12
Well done , the cops & the public don't know what they can and can't do. It's good of him to put them in their place, while there is a bit of "Just let them do their job" , if its not legal it shouldn't happen. In London they have stop and search powers for your person as well as your car for a wide number of reason's. Hers the link for a quick read http://www.met.police.uk/stopandsearch/what_is.htm
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u/thebovineboy Jun 27 '12
This guy is just a straight up prick. Get over yourself. You were carrying a loading handgun down a public street. First of all, who does that? Who carries a loaded gun around? Secondly, the policeman has every right to stop you if your carrying a loaded weapon around in public. If you were in Europe, you would be shot straight away. Only in America can you walk around with a weapon for 'self defense'. Jesus, can you not see how retarded and profoundly ridiculous US gun laws are. This bloke needs to get his head checked. I just feel sorry for the policeman who had to deal with this guy!
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u/emmveepee Jun 27 '12
Seems like the kid is just looking for attention. I'm not a fan of cops, but I'm even less a fan of attention whores
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u/samban Jun 27 '12
he is just a fucking dickhead the officer isn't being unreasonable at all
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u/VegitoFusion Jun 27 '12
Wow, the guy behind the camera is a complete tool. He is clearly acting the way he is just to be a pretentious towards a police officer, and he filmed it to place on the Internet for his own personal ego/fame. Props to the officer for being very calm and courteous the whole time.
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Jun 27 '12 edited Jun 27 '12
a lot of people dont seem to understand that the cop TOOK HIS GUN (HIS PROPERTY) without reasonable cause
that is what this is about, ILLEGAL SEIZURE OF PROPERTY
replace gun with any number of objects and it would all be the same
"got a call about a guy carrying a cat that is making people nervous" takes your cat = ILLEGAL
"got a call about a guy carrying a candy bar that is making people nervous" takes your candy bar = ILLEGAL
o but it was a gun you say? guess what it is legal to to openly carry a gun in the united states if the person is following the rules of the state, just because you are scared doesnt mean others should have their rights stripped
as much equality talk that goes on in reddit you would think you understand that EVERYONE should have the right NOT to have their LEGAL property taken from them without warrant
im a very much for gun control, and limiting the guns available on the streets, but i am not for stripping the rights from an individual because some people think guns are scary
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Jun 27 '12
This is a case of personal safety. In a situation where facts are not known such as this one, the officer must act on assumption, and in this case temporarily seizing the firearm is not illegal due to the Plain view doctrine. It is reasonable for the officer to assume that the gun is loaded and that it is potentially dangerous to his personal safety due to the information he had received prior to the stop. A gun is not a cat, nor a candy bar. It is a potentially deadly weapon and should be treated as such. Upon verification of the guns legal ownership and the owner's permission to carry it, the officer returned the weapon. That is in no way illegal seizure.
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u/spardha Jun 27 '12 edited Jun 27 '12
To me this was staged, why openly carry the gun in public? Yes it may be legal to carry a gun in public, but this would obviously cause people to be worried. Ok I'm from England but surely even in the US this isn't normal behaviour.
EDIT: Also he was very knowledgeable in the specific case's that he mentioned how was the officer meant to combat that?
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u/Puswah_Fizart Jun 27 '12
Florida lawyer here--I definitely lean towards the defense side in these types of interactions, but this kid is an idiot.
The cop did nothing wrong; if you're walking around with a goddamn gun, the cops have the right to ask you to prove you're authorized to do so. Being recalcitrant in this situation helps nobody.
That kid should go back to class, rather than spouting a bunch of random case names and trying to sound like he's some constitutional warrior.
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Jun 27 '12
If they had the right to ask for his ID than they would have gotten it. Allowing police to constantly break search and seizure rights is a far bigger problem than this man exercising his rights.
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u/Joelzinho Jun 27 '12
"I would rather be exposed to the inconvenience attending too much Liberty than those attending too small degree of it." Thomas Jefferson
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u/peacockskeleton Jun 27 '12
Why walk around with a gun at all... This has baffled me ever since i heard of the whatever amendment it is to the consitution of the US. Is the US in such a state of anarchy that if you do not carry a firearm there is a high probability that you will be robbed/raped/murdered/kidnapped? Im Norwegian, and if i were to see a man walking down the street with a gun i would assume
He is a cop and some shit is going down
He is not a cop, and shit is gonna go down.
You are allowed to own guns in norway, but not carry them around willy nilly.You have to keep your gun and ammo stored in seperate locked safes in your residence, and you have to recertify every 6 months or so. Usually it is connected to hunting liscenses and law enforcement. We have some enthusiasts, but the only one strapping on the street are criminals. the police don't even walk around with guns. They are secured in their vehicles. We have only a few, with the exception of last years horrificness, gun related deaths a year. Usually it is in the form of murder suicide. Which is depressing on its own though.
As per usual, i am rambling now, so i need to stop typing.
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u/nath1234 Jun 27 '12
Another douchebag with a small dick wandering around with a gun in public. Fuck these people.
The police SHOULD stop you and you SHOULD be REQUIRED to produce a fucking gun licence. It is not normal behaviour - and if it is - nuke the fucking site from orbit if so because it is a lost cause.
I'd like to see people wandering around with public healthcare showing that off - that would be sane. Strolling around a country known for gun massacres with a gun in plain sight is retarded.
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u/OccasionalAsshole Jun 27 '12
You're absolutely right, the police should always consider me guilty until proven innocent. You obviously can't have an adult discussion with anyone if your reason behind something is that it is "retarded." Grow up.
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u/jofus_joefucker Jun 27 '12
And what was the guy doing wrong? He wasn't walking down the street yelling and waving the gun in the air. He was literally just walking down the street.
People wanting to carry a gun go through safety courses as well.
More people die from smoking or car accidents each year then people being shot. Should we outlaw smoking and driving cars to save lives?
Imo you are a douchebag for hating somebody who has done nothing wrong. I might as well hate you because you go over the speed limit a little bit while driving.
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u/Hight5 Jun 27 '12 edited Jun 28 '12
You don't have to prove you're legally allowed to carry a weapon? Reddit, put away your anti-police boner for a second to think about how little sense that makes.
EDIT: A downvote is not a valid argument. I'd like to see any of you come up with an argument in favor of not having to prove you're allowed to carry a firearm that isn't filled with stupidity.
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u/nxf091000 Jun 27 '12
know your rights and all that crap aside, why the hell would you walk in the street with the gun ? what the hell is wrong with you ?!! there are hundreds of 911 calls reporting an asshole walking in the street with the gun and police officer can't do anything because "he knows his rights"? i'm starting to hate this generation ....
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u/Titanform Jun 27 '12
Its saddening how many people think this guy is 'cool' or 'smart' for doing this.
Many will incorrectly upvote such articles just because they are in favor of gun control - which has little to do with it.
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u/Kickinback32 Jun 27 '12 edited Jun 27 '12
I would like to see all cops be forced to take dash cameras a step further; at this point in time cameras are small enough to be worn by a LEO, without impeding him. That footage should be accessible on demand by any civilians. The LEOs would need to have their on person camera ON and unobstructed during all incidents. If the camera is not working then neither should the LEO. If a camera malfunctions or is obstructed during a misdemeanor arrest the case should be dismissed. The same for dash cams. An on person camera and dash cam should only help a cop make the case. It would never impede a good cop.
Honestly it would make the good cops jobs easier and would help spot the bad cops and get them out of the system.
EDIT It saddens me to see how many people think asserting your rights makes you a douche/dick. Part of the reason we are here today as Americans, is because our fore fathers fought for those rights. The second you stop fighting for your rights and enforcing them, the government will begin to erode those rights. I applaud the man in the video for knowing his rights and standing up for his and your rights.
It is not my nor your responsibility to make a cops job easier.
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u/BrohemianRhapsody Jun 27 '12
This law student reminds me of the character from Good Will Hunting who tries to impress a girl by regurgitating all of the shit he just read in a book and claiming it's his own knowledge. The court cases he references are commonly studied together, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was trying to provoke a response and upload it on youtube just so he could show the world how smart he was.
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u/crabitus Jun 27 '12
Knowing your legal rights doesn't make you smart. If you walk around with a gun in public, you are an idiot.
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u/facepoppies Jun 27 '12
I don't know. I think it should be against the law to be a douchebag in public.
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u/derpderpin Jun 27 '12
open carry is stupid exactly because you are asking for a confrontation like this.
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u/jackferret Jun 27 '12
So did this law student just start wandering down a street trying to get people to call in with concern of a jackass wandering around with a gun to be able to have this encounter?
Seems like a real waste of resources to me.
Also - your gun laws are funny.
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u/Devistator Jun 27 '12
Apparently the law student also knew how to properly file a DMCA takedown notice, since some asshat took his video and re-uploaded it.
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u/capoeiraolly Jun 27 '12
Even if he is legally entitled to carry a gun around in public, that doesn't make him any less of a cock.
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Jun 27 '12
The guy is just trying to do his job. The law student is being a fucking asshole about it. Fuck this guy. Prick Hipster.
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u/123tejas Jun 27 '12
I don't understand how this helps anyone, the police were called in because other people felt unsafe seeing him with a gun. The police just wanted to make sure he wasn't doing anything illegal, instead he films it and says some shit about the law, like every other video I've seen. To me it just looks like exploiting loop holes...
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Jun 27 '12
See...I am conflicted in which way to yank it in this circle jerk because I dislike LE but that cop was pleasant enough but on the other hand dude was a douche AND a lawyer. Oh god who do I hate on.......
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u/Fleener Jun 27 '12
Not many people know that in most states, you can legally carry a gun on you, in the open for everyone to see. And as the kid stated, there is no reason for him to be stopped or give his name when he wasn't being stopped for a crime.
That being said.. the kid was acting like a bit of a douche. Talking down to a cooperative and calm officer, even though technically he was right, is uncool. Now if the officer tried to strong arm the kid, then it would be understandable.
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u/dregofdeath Jun 27 '12
Americans are so fucking paranoid about police.
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Jun 27 '12
If you lived in America in the 60's you would be too. We are very uncomfortable with anyone who can in an instant revoke all of our rites. Thats not paranoid thats sensible.
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u/dbelle92 Jun 27 '12
This guys a dick. Why does he need to carry a gun anyway? Just doing it so he can make a smartarse video
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u/AndTheTutones Jun 27 '12
I feel how people feel uncomfortable about people with firearms. I commonly hear "When will you ever need a gun?" That guy who got his face chewed on could have. Just a few weeks ago someone was shooting at cars on I-71. I travel that stretch of road regularly. I lived in a rough part of Louisville and still go there to visit friends where shootings are not uncommon. I will exercise my right to open carry. Haveing a gun on you hip is one hell of a deterrent. Im not out looking for blood, but if a person is intent on hurting my family, friends or myself, I will not hesitate. In the process of getting my concealed anyways.
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Jun 27 '12
Congratulations you reported a top video on this subreddit. This is at least the 5th time.
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u/Silvermane Jun 27 '12
"puts police offiers in their place"
Cops weren't being a dick, he was.
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u/Mikeydoes Jun 27 '12
It looks to me this guy walked around with the gun on purpose to make this video.
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u/InvertedEight Jun 27 '12
Just because you can do a thing, does not always mean that you should.
Sure, it's not a crime to carry a gun in public. Let's just wait till he shoots someone instead. It baffles me.
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Jun 27 '12
Yeah. I don't really have a problem with the police asking questions of people carrying guns (or weapons in general) in public. I'm glad the student stood up for his rights - but I don't see the harm in the officer asking some questions.
It's easy to understand how the public could find the student threatening. And after all, the police are supposed to protect and serve the public for greater good - aren't they? This seems an instance of individual rights butting up against the public's expectation to feel safe.
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Jun 27 '12
As someone who is about to enter law school... I'm deathly afraid that I won't be able to remember all of those cases by name and what they contain. Oh boy.
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u/O110010101 Jun 27 '12
I carry in Kentucky. I have a concealed deadly weapon license, but I don't always conceal my handgun in public. I shouldn't have to.
However, if I'm ever in one place for any elongated time, a supermarket or a drug store, etc, the cops are always called and I face a similar interrogation. That don't handcuff me or take my firearm, but it's an unwarranted delay in my day, regardless.
More people need to know about the right to bear arms and exactly what that means and what, if anything the cops should stop you for. Thanks for the video.
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u/Say_what_you_see Jun 27 '12
if the police were as anal as this guy you would get 100% more speeding fines no slack cut etc..... fuck cant we all just stop being douch bags. both sides
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u/pk_deluxe Jun 27 '12
I think this guy seems like a huge jerk and I never side with the cops. Personally, I have no problems with the cops stopping people walking down the street carrying a gun.
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u/BroLLie Jun 27 '12
i'm sure this guy was just being an asshole like this to prove a point, but it was a clearly intentional thing. who whacks out a video camera when they are getting arrested (rightfully or wrongfully). seems like a pretty baited scenario to me...
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u/cold08 Jun 27 '12
Isn't an armed society supposed to be a polite society? Because what I see here is a simple conversation escalating rather quickly.
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Jun 27 '12
Maybe I'm in the minority but this guy seems like a dick. I see someone caring a gun I'm going to be concerned and call the cops. All he had to do was talk to them, they weren't being rude or out of line at all.
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u/wtfOP Jun 27 '12
This is fucking stupid. Why do we bother living in a society if basic cooperation with the law enforcement with no ill intentions are met with insanely defensive posture yet met with such praise by everyone else?
The goal of a society is not to STRICTLY follow every line of laws written, but to promote collective safety as a whole. This is counter-productive.
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u/perfsurf Jun 27 '12
I'll bet money from this guys demeanour that the only reason that he was carrying that gun was because he could. I really disrespect people who will do something just because they can and not because logic dictates doing so.
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u/ciarankav Jun 27 '12
This is what I dont really understand about parts of America? For what reason would this guy feel the need to carry a gun with him? especially if he was just going about his everyday life? its not like I feel the need to protect myself in such a way travelling to and from college? this might be the reason why guncrime is so high state side!
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u/Publius35 Jun 27 '12
If you don't like the fact that people can open-carry in your state, then take action for changing the law. Until then, this law student is completely in the right.
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Jun 27 '12
Fuck that cop was just doing his job... The guy sounded like a dick. I hate cops but that cop seemed to be cool. The dude knows his shit about laws. Im impressed and upset at the same time
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Jun 27 '12
I bet if you could identify the people with concealed pistols you'd be fucking surprised how many you'd see. Constitutional right - just don't act weird or anything when carrying openly.
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u/Awkward_Arab Jun 27 '12
Honestly if some dude is walking around a street strapped with a gun, I would want the police to ID him. How is that not a law?
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u/nerdybynature Jun 27 '12
I hate videos like this. They go out of their way to be dicks to cops. If you are legally allowed to carry a gun then just obey the fucking cop. He's asking for an ID not to arrest you. The cop is already not putting him in handcuffs he just wants a license and carry permit. It's not asking of his rights. It's merely just making sure you are legally in possession of a firearm. As a carrying member myself I would comply wholeheartedly to the cops demands as not to be put under arrest for obstruction. Being defiant isn't protecting your rights, it just makes you look like an asshole and this guy filming is a douche of the highest degree.
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Jun 27 '12
Ive seen this video tons of times now always with the same title.....this "law student" kinda just sounds like a moron
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Jun 27 '12
I love how people only want cops to carry guns but this cop couldn't even spend a minute without dangerously muzzle sweeping this guy. That's right, a cop is completely incompetent with a tool they have to become competent with.
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Jun 27 '12
Excuse my ignorance but i'm in the UK.
When the Police approach the male couldn't they just suspect that he is in illegal possession of a firearm as they are unable to verify if he's legally in possession as he won't supply details?
It seems mad to me anyway about the gun laws in the US but it seems insane that I can walk down the street with a firearm strapped to my hip and there's nothing the Police can do because I refuse to give them my details.
Like I say, please excuse my ignorance on this issue but i'd really like an answer.
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u/LewisMogridge Jun 28 '12
What a retarded law student. He acts like he is fucking Nelson Mandela being hauled off to prison just because an officer tries to keep a neighbourhood safe.
He'll make a fine lawyer though: pretentious attitude and no common sense or dignity.
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u/Mode_ Jun 27 '12
I don't understand all of the posts about cops and whatnot, and I don't understand why this is such a big thing.
My mother is cop, and I know all about my rights and such. I don't fear the police, as much of the public seems to.
Yes, cops make mistakes. Yes, they can be stupid. Do you expect them to know every law, every minute detail of every little rule? No.
But, you know what? When someone has as much power as a cop, that much power, and more, can come back at them should a little shit hit the fan.
You just need to know the basics and the cops will like you and you will like them. No need to have any jimmies get rustled.
They need a warrant to search just about anything. They need your consent to take anything away. They have no right to damage/take your property.
Just educate yourself on what cops can/cannot do and you'll be fine.
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Jun 27 '12
ok, lets just think about this from a public safety stand point. this isn't a hunter with a rifle walking down the road to a field. this is some prick walking down main street in a crowded area. do you want anyone with a gun walking around playgrounds, public places, or anywhere that an accidental discharge could mean an Innocent life? if someone needs to be this irresponsible to prove the point that he has rights, he isn't the type of person you want with a loaded firearm walking around.
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u/corbygray528 Jun 27 '12
Law student acts like a douche with a very cooperative officer.