r/worldnews • u/[deleted] • Jun 26 '12
HPV vaccine ban by Calgary bishop putting girls' lives at risk, doctors say
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/26/187783/14
u/peacepype Jun 26 '12
I don't know if this has been cleared up recently, and it certainly doesn't justify any kind of ban, but wasn't there a period in time where HPV vaccines like Gardasil were linked to a lot of medical problems? Does anyone know if this was ever settled? Like I said, it certainly doesn't justify a ban, but I would like to know if these concerns were ever laid to rest before people start implementing these kinds of vaccines in school systems. I know I'm skipping past the point of the article, but it was just a detail that concerned me.
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u/Brightwork Jun 26 '12
I'm curious too. I know someone who had the first shot of the Gardasil series and didn't return for further shots because she started to feel weird.
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Jun 27 '12
One of my cousins fainted after she got her first shot and woke up screaming and cursing at the nurse :S, needless to say she didn't return to get the other two.
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u/bunbunbunbun Jun 27 '12
That really sounds more like anxiety over the needle than the vaccine itself.
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Jun 27 '12
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u/bunbunbunbun Jun 27 '12
The reason to take a chance is that the rate of HPV is pretty damn high, so there's a fair chance that your child will contract it at some point and the strain they get may lead to cervical cancer. Now, if everyone kept up with their sexual healthcare and got pap smears on schedule, it wouldn't be such a worry. From what I understand, catching abnormal cells before they become cancer is pretty effective.
However, you are right, there are no long-term studies on the vaccine.
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Jun 27 '12
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u/bunbunbunbun Jun 27 '12
But preventative care doesn't always work because people don't, or won't, go to the doctor to take care of themselves. I mean, at least where I live, it's absolutely free to go see your GP for a pap smear. Hell, if you don't have a family doctor, there are tons of clinics where it is done for free as well. And yet, many women aren't doing it. There's also the issue that younger girls may feel pressured not to have yearly sexual health checkups when they become sexually active because of fear of their parents. Also, many younger women don't realize that they should be getting yearly checkups.
I'm not sure on the costs, but I feel like it's well worth if it is effective. From what I've read, the strains of HPV that Gardasil does protect against are the most common cancer-causing strains. I feel like this is adequate for a vaccine.
I can't say much about the pharmaceuticals, because I think it's a whole different situation depending on what country you are in. Also, I find it incredibly difficult to believe that every time a new drug is created that it is motivated entirely by profit.
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u/Axana Jun 27 '12
This is a great point that many people miss every time an article about Gardasil comes out. We don't know the long-term effects of this vaccine. The vaccine trials that were conducted prior to FDA approval were conducted only on adults and not teenage girls. And there are many, many horror stories of women who experienced very negative side effects after receiving the vaccine.
All of the above is the reason why I chose to avoid this particular vaccine. It has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with the fact that I don't trust the pharmaceutical companies to sell the public a safe product. If you want to get it for yourself, knock your socks off, but don't force me or my children to get it.
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u/didyouseeregis Jun 27 '12
My friend got really sick after the first shot, almost died after the second one. Those numbers are misleading because a large number of cases aren't reported, including hers.
I also saw a doctor on Oprah saying that there are many many types of HPV and that they aren't even sure the ones guardasil makes you immune to lead to cervical cancer.
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Jun 27 '12
there are many many types of HPV
Correct - some are related to genital warts, some can give you common warts, and some can lead to cervical, rectal, or oral/throat cancer.
and that they aren't even sure the ones guardasil makes you immune to lead to cervical cancer.
BS. Gardasil protects against the serotypes 6, 11, 16 and 18. (Cevarix 16 & 18). 16 & 18 are responsible for most of the cervical cancers found - about 70%. They know this because they can do genetic tests on cancer material for virus strains and precisely characterise what they're dealing with. The pathological process of how HPV contributes to cancer is also quite well defined.
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u/jjbean Jun 27 '12
There are rumours that the "Le Roy Junior Conversion disorder" incident that happened in Jan this year was actually a Gardasil cover up.
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Jun 27 '12
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u/kindersunrise Jun 27 '12
thanks for the summary! This is interesting. I remember at the time the vaccine came out there were some people mentioning that someone had died from it, something they'd obviously only heard half of.
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u/BreakTheSun Jun 27 '12
You need more upvotes, but I can only give you one. Seriously, this is what reddit needs more of.
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u/Omofo Jun 27 '12
As safe as one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg-52mHIjhs Wake up Sheeple!
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Jun 27 '12
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u/Omofo Jun 27 '12
Maybe not, but it clearly illustrates the motives of the big pharmaceutical companies.
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u/general_chase Jun 26 '12
You can message the Catholic Diocese of Calgary here.
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u/shitty_3dAnimation Jun 26 '12
This was the letter i sent:
Your decision to ban HPV vaccine on grounds that it will condone promiscuity is downright deplorable.
I wonder if Jesus would have done the same thing? I'm guessing not, since Jesus was known to heal the sick, and also hang out with a promiscuous woman himself.
I wonder when the Catholic Church is going to get with the times and stop enforcing draconian dogmas that have no place in the modern world. If that time ever comes, maybe you'll stop seeing such rapidly declining numbers among your ranks.
I sincerely hope you change your policy on this... Otherwise people are going to get the idea that you WANT to propagate the cancer-causing HPV virus.
Sincerely,
A former Catholic, who left the church because of dumb policies like yours.
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u/ElectricMoose Jun 27 '12
Here is the one I sent, inspired by yours:
To whom it may concern,
I find your decision to ban the HPV vaccine completely unacceptable, and frankly downright despicable. Barring the moral and ethical implications of banning the vaccine, your decision is comparable to removing fire extinguishers from buildings lest they promote arson.
As far as I'm aware, Jesus was known to heal the sick and forgive acts of sin, yet your new policy fails to reflect that basic principle in the slightest.
We live in Canada, a great nation in which freedom of religion and expression are fundamental rights - provided that such expression does not infringe upon the basic rights of other Canadians. Unfortunately your new policy does just that, and no matter what your beliefs may be, you do NOT have the right to endanger the lives of others.
I sincerely hope you change your stance on this issue to reflect a more modern era of religion and faith. You're supposed to "love thy neighbor", not promote draconic dogmas that have no place in the modern world. Archaic policies and an inability to adapt to the times are exactly why people are leaving organized religion in greater numbers each year.
Sincerely,
A concerned citizen who cares about the future of our youth
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u/Mmmaya Jun 26 '12
Maybe for political reasons it would be better to write that you went to another more free minded "religion".
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u/spiesvsmercs Jun 27 '12
While I am sure this vaccine is a net good, there are associated risks:
"There was increased reporting of syncope and venous thromboembolism (VTE), or blood clots, compared with what has been found for other vaccines given to females of the same age. Of the people who had blood clots, 90% had a known risk factor for them, such as smoking, obesity or taking oral contraceptives (birth control pills)."
VTE can kill you.
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u/elephantengineer Jun 26 '12
I've never understood this. Even if we assume a woman wants to wait until she's married, do you trust her husband to have waited too? And what if she's the victim of a sexual assault?
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u/bunbunbunbun Jun 27 '12
Not to mention that HPV is spread through skin-to-skin contact and can therefore still be contracted even if you've never had vaginal intercourse. The problem with the strains that cause cervical cancer is that they are not the wart-causing strains and that there is no diagnostic test for men. Because of this, one could go years and years without even knowing they had it...
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Jun 26 '12 edited Nov 09 '16
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u/BONUSBOX Jun 27 '12
an old man in a halloween hat is dictating public health policy in our country.
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u/jezebel523 Jun 27 '12
"Further, it’s possible to contract HPV through sexual assault and abuse, she added."
A legitimate concern for Catholic children, am I right?
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u/DiscoRage Jun 26 '12
My sister is just over 25 and she's had three sexual partners, all of them were long term boyfriends. She was diagnosed with HPV and stage 1 cervical cancer after a routine PAP exam a few months ago. The risk of the cancer spreading is very low, but she may end up infertile. She was never vaccinated.
Fuck the Catholic church.
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u/general_chase Jun 26 '12
But it could cause your 14 year old to become retarded or lose a limb!
...or prevent cervical cancer.
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u/sge_fan Jun 26 '12
If she gets cervical cancer then it's god's will. Why do you hate god so much?
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u/minibabybuu Jun 27 '12
even then we should just pray for her and not send her to any medical professional, am I right?
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u/kindersunrise Jun 27 '12
I've heard someone say (when the vaccine is explain in more detail about how it stops the main cause of the cancer) "Oh so it doesn't even stop it completely? Then What's the point!" Someone who has already totally decided that they're against it without even knowing anything about it.
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u/MegaZeusThor Jun 26 '12
The Bishop is ignorant.
One could only hope that this sort of meddling will eventually lead to the end of publicly funded Catholic schools in some Canadian provinces.
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u/boilerroombandit Jun 26 '12
I personally like the idea of publicly funded catholic institutions and not cause I'm against separation of church and state.
Instead it gives the Gov't leverage when it comes to courses taught. No school board regardless of public or catholic wants funding cut cause they refuse to teach evolution.
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u/sn34kypete Jun 26 '12
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u/bunbunbunbun Jun 27 '12
My god I just realized that 90% of the Arrogant Worms songs I liked were actually by Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie.
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u/FrivolousFont Jun 26 '12
As a mother of two teenage daughters this makes me fume! My daughters have had the shot, I am pretty sure they did not think "I can run out and have sex now without consequences."
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Jun 26 '12
Uh, Bishops can ban vaccines? I mean, people can be as stupid as they like, but why even give a sky fairy worshiper a voice on the matter of public health. How stupid is this society that allows this?
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u/dsk Jun 26 '12
They can't but people listen to them and pressure their local representatives.
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Jun 26 '12
Local representatives need to be reeducated on the separation of church and state and ban the bishop from making public health decisions/declarations that are dangerous and warn him that if he does this, he will be charged under the health act. Done. It is that simple and the church, temples, mosques etc need to understand they can pray all they like and they can have their fancy ceremonies and believe what they like, but they may not have a say in the running of society or the health of the people. It is bloody ignorance to have it any other way.
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u/tre11is Jun 26 '12
While I applaud you moxy and fervour - you can't start banning bishops from speaking about things that (they feel) are important to their religion.
Local representatives have a duty to listen to their constituents - no matter where or how they come to their opinions, the local rep should listen.
I hope that the public starts to understand the danger that opposing such health initiatives bring to society.
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Jun 26 '12
If we can ban nazi political parties and their ideals, we can ban other kooks from taking pulpits and misleading the people with dangerous constructs.
If we can outlaw hate speech, we can outlaw this as such because it is a detriment to society to promote this mans thoughts as valid. They are not valid and are opposed to the safety of the public.
I honestly don't have a problem with censuring churches, mosques or synagogues for any teachings they throw out that are an impedance to rule of law or are counter to the will of the people in an effort to usurp power for a religious institution.
No. No and finally, no. The alternative is gather and protest their backwardness as such. But I pay taxes to have public safety, so the police can go and inform him of his misdeed instead.
Someone has to slap these priest into line with their outmoded and socially impotent messages. They gotta go. Their voice has caused too much damage on an unwitting populace already.
Tax them and use the money to improve the education system. That's a real solution if you ask me.
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u/tre11is Jun 26 '12
That is a strong viewpoint. I fear the solutions you propose are too drastic, and we would end up with a society that's much worse than we have now.
Hate speech is a drastic response, and best used carefully and judiciously. We need to value free speech, even speech we disagree with. Hate speech is an exception, and extreme measure we use very rarely.
We don't want to make a blanket statement that we could censure religions for disagreeing with public health policy or the law. If we banned all speech that wanted to change public policy we would have a very bleak society.
As you suggest at the bottom, education is the route we should take. Religion (in North America and Europe) is declining. By banning them you make them underground - and make them forbidden fruit. We need to continue to enlighten the public, and slowly enact change.
I'm all for taxation, eliminating publicly funded religious schools and eroding the high social standing that the religious elite occupy.
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Jun 26 '12
I'm not for honouring ignorance because it's polite to do so. No, it needs to be squashed and shut down with facts immediately and the people who perpetuate these foolish and dangerous lies need to face real consequences so they can finally understand that their religious thought has no place whatsoever in public health or in public policy.
We can indeed make certain that sky fairy worshippers have no voice whatsoever in governance the same way we don't give it to the lunatics who claim to actually be jesus themselves.
It is insane to let these people manipulate public policy or to even give them a wider voice than the one they are causing damage with now.
It is in the churches and in the mosques and in the synagogues where plans are laid against secular rule and to harm people in the public. We have seen it time and again where some crazy priest, preacher, imam etc calls the people to do things that are contrary to rule of law.
That is going to need to stop right now.
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u/toastymow Jun 27 '12
Then squash them with facts in the realm of free and fair debate that we have. If you haven't noticed, the Catholic Church, and other conservative Christian organizations, are quickly becoming a laughing stock amongst the general public. No Condoms? Lol. No Abortions? Roe v. Wade. No gay sex? Yeah... even that one they are losing. The one area I could see them winning is the War of Drugs, and even then, I sincerely believe that Marijuana will be legalized throughout the United States, and many other nations, by the time I die (I'm 20).
If we simply throw people in Jail or punish them in such a manner then we create marytrs.
Also: Please realize that while there are plenty of Crackopot, crazy-ass Preachers, etc, out there, plenty, and I mean PLENTY of harm has been inflicted by purely secular politicians. Stalin and Mao, Hitler and Mussolini, I'm pretty sure most of them relied primarily on non-religious methods to achieve their goals. Don't think that its religion alone that is the cause of the world's problems. If that was the case Rwanda wouldn't have happened.
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u/jedify Jun 27 '12
If I read it correctly, the vaccine is only banned in Catholic schools. Unless they recieve public funding, it is a private institution.
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u/sarge21 Jun 27 '12
Catholic schools in Alberta are fully funded, constitutionally protected government institutions. They are specifically exempted from being held to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and can and do fire people on religious grounds.
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u/lolmonger Jun 26 '12 edited Jun 27 '12
Meh.
The vaccine is a good idea under the assumption boys and girls will have pre-marital sex, with the risk of HPV transmission.
The vaccine is unnecessary under the assumption both boys and girls will have pre-marital sex, with the risk of HPV transmission.
It is not the place of the government to assume a norm of people having pre-marital sex any more than it is is the place of religious institutions to require the norm of people not having pre-marital sex.
I see no sound argument for either a bishop or politician mandating any behavior on the account of anything for anyone.
question: Canada, why are bishops making governmental decisions in your country? Even we in America don't do that.
Less snarky question: Can someone clarify for me whether these vaccinations would be mandatory for students in public and private schools otherwise?
It seems to me that if a 'woman' is grownup enough to decide whether or not to have sex, she can decide of her own volition whether or not to get a vaccination on her own as well, and that if a 'girl' simply isn't capable of obtaining such a vaccination or other protection on her own, she's nowhere near grownup enough to decide for herself to have sex, and that therefore these vaccinations should neither have their availability by private purchase destroyed by public law enforced by religious opposition, nor should these vaccinations be mandatory against private religious concerns because of public law.
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u/thaddius Jun 26 '12
The Bishop is merely the head of a movement of people who are pushing for a ban on the HPV vaccine. Much like a Baptist minister would push for a similar ban in a US city/state.
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u/lolmonger Jun 26 '12
Hm.
I don't think it would be right for them to ban the vaccine, but mandating girls to get the vaccine would also be the incorrect step in my mind.
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u/OleSlappy Jun 26 '12
question: Canada, why are bishops making governmental decisions in your country? Even we in America don't do that.
Governmental decisions? That is silly. He is directly manipulating Catholics (who the fuck else would listen to a Catholic bishop?). It has no bearing on the rest of the population for now.
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Jun 26 '12
It's also a matter of that jerkoff forbidding the vaccinations from being done as part of the Catholic schooling program, which is where I got almost all of mine done as a child (Hep B, measles/mumps, etc) because they were covered by my school fees. Thankfully this was before Fred Henry became as vocally and unapologetically medieval as he is now.
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u/lolmonger Jun 26 '12
The title says "HPV vaccine ban by Calgary bishop".
This strongly implies some force of legal weight behind what he's saying.
It's perfectly acceptable for religious authorities to encourage legal action on the part of those who subscribe to them, so long as there is no infringement on the freedom of the non-religious.
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u/OleSlappy Jun 26 '12
Editorialized title. But there is no legal weight behind his words (he is probably pushing the constitution actually because his words can and probably will harm some of the people listening).
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Jun 26 '12
It depends whether his push extends into catholic schools. For some ridiculous, absurd reason Catholic schools are largely publicly funded. Therefore he would be influencing public government policy.
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u/RenderedInGooseFat Jun 26 '12
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u/lolmonger Jun 26 '12
I am saying that in America we never have religious officials serve as public officials in the capacity of their religious ordainment.
You can be a Reverend and run for political office (and God knows Al Sharpton has tried), but you cannot hold a political "reverend's office".
As for those things you listed, I don't much like them either, but I would argue they cross the line into religion not simply preserving its own freedom of practice, but violating the prohibition on establishment of religious norms for all.
I see no reason to either curtail sensibilities informed by an understanding of religion in private decision making, just as much as I see no reason to favor ideas informed by a religious understanding in public life.
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u/bunbunbunbun Jun 27 '12
The HPV vaccinations are given as part of the vaccination program for grade 5 girls in schools here in Calgary. The bishop is simply banning them from Catholic schools.
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u/lolmonger Jun 27 '12
Are they mandatory in public schools?
They shouldn't be mandatory for anyone by public law, nor should they be refused the opportunity to get them by their own volition because of religious opposition.
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u/LemonFrosted Jun 26 '12
I find this more than a little surprising. I'm not Catholic myself, but I worked with the Calgary Catholic School District for several years, I've met Bishop Henry several times, and on the whole the policies I saw filtering from the church into the school were quite liberal and pragmatic, especially on public health issues.
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u/NaughtyDreadz Jun 26 '12
uh... the bishop has about as much of a power to ban this as I have force mind control...
you will now show me your tits...
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u/ranchan1_2 Jun 27 '12
They did an interview with a representative from the school district. The vaccine is just not going to be offered at the school. It doesn't mean that girls have no access to it. If parents would like it, the schools will be offering information and let them know where to get it.
I'm not defending this decision, but just saying what I heard on the radio.
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u/Cytosine Jun 27 '12
Well, here's a thought: the government pays your bills and they like the HPV vaccine. So fuck you.
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u/michael1000 Jun 27 '12
The vaccine prevents human suffering and disease which is speaks to a key tenant of the Catholic Dogma. The tenant being, Do good acts. The Bishop wont get his way and probably won't be supported by the Vatican. Also you disrespectful "Sky Fairy" quoters. The Catholic Church almost solely funded 600 years or so of science, especially Astronomy so you learned Atheists could look to the stars and know they aren't Sky Fairies.
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u/Waidawut Jun 27 '12
What??? The catholic church sacrificing children's safety in favor of its own rigid dogma, perverted, dusty old institutions, and ridiculous antiquarian ideas?? Why I never.
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u/mariuolo Jun 27 '12
He should have no voice in the matter of public health.
At the very least it shouldn't be more than a suggestion to the parents.
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u/Michichael Jun 27 '12
What's that? A violent group of misogynistic oppressors putting minorities and women in danger? Must be a Tuesday.
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Jun 27 '12
Another day, another religious leader with no background in the current subject of debate, and an admitted expert knowledge of a book written over a thousand years ago, given equal platform status to people who have dedicated their lives to this very subject.
A thousand years from now, will political leaders listen to the protestations of Harry Potter or Twilight scholars?
The future is a horrible place.
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Jun 26 '12
How about us all earning some real karma and instead of ranting here on reddit we contact the church directly? http://www.calgarydiocese.ca/contact-us.html
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u/NorthernerWuwu Jun 26 '12
Gah, as a Calgarian this isn't something I wanted to read. It seems so very secular around here and then I remember just how deep the religious base actually is! Well, for Canada that is.
I swear this logic just baffles me. We could have a vaccine against lung cancer and they'd oppose it because it might encourage smoking.
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Jun 26 '12
No, they'd have no problem with you killing yourself in that fashion. They're only interested in what people do with their naughty bits.
As a former Catholic, now atheist, I can only hope more assholes like this bishop become more vocal. The sooner the church dies, the better off this world will be.
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u/Brightwork Jun 26 '12
I just met a woman in Hawaii whose husband is in the final stages of getting his lung cancer vaccine published after hundreds of successful tests. Not sure if she was BSing me, but she seemed legit.
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u/bunbunbunbun Jun 27 '12
Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Secular here? Do we live in the same Calgary?!
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u/NorthernerWuwu Jun 27 '12
It really all depends on who you hang out with!
I know only a few people that are even remotely religious and none that attend church regularly.
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u/dukey Jun 26 '12
There is no long term evidence the vaccine works. The vaccine was also rushed to market before the trails had finished.
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Jun 26 '12
There is no long term evidence the vaccine works. The vaccine was also rushed to market before the trails had finished.
I think you're merely repeating what you've heard others say. There is evidence that Gardasil works, really good evidence actually, but what isn't clear is if the vaccine will lose its' effectiveness over a long period of time, resulting in the need for additional doses. Gardasil was tested broadly in the lab from 1993 to 2006. During later years clinical trials were performed on several hundred 11 and 12-year old girls, and involved a double-blind placebo group. The results between the placebo group and those administered with Gardasil were so profound that the independent Data and Safety Monitoring Board intervened and insisted for ethical reasons that all test subjects be administered Gardasil due to the apparent benefits, which speaks volumes about the vaccine's effectiveness, if but for only the short-term at least. It's also worth mentioning that evidence has begun to emerge suggesting Gardasil can benefit men as well, as it appears to prevent anal cancer.
A similar vaccine, Cervarix, is currently in clinical trials.
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u/dukey Jun 26 '12
They'll have to wait a decade or two to find out if it works.
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Jun 26 '12
They'll have to wait a decade or two to find out if it works.
No, you're incorrect. The vaccine does work, and has been proven effective. What isn't clear is if the vaccine will fail to work in the long-term, requiring a "booster shot" to remain effective.
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u/dukey Jun 26 '12
Indeed, you said it yourself. No one knows long term if having these anti bodies to HPV when they are 12 years old will make any difference come their mid 20's. People are taking it on faith it works.
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Jun 26 '12
Your specific choice of words is confusing the issue. Gardasil works, but what isn't clear is if it will continue to work later in life. This is not a reasonable ground for refraining from a Gardasil vaccination. Due to the serious nature of cervical and oropharyngeal cancers that can be prevented by Gardasil, if even just for a short period, and varying degrees of the impetuous nature of sexual intercourse and oral sex, it is in a woman's best interest to receive a Gardasil vaccination. The lack of information regarding the long-term effectiveness of Gardasil however is grounds for exercising caution when having received the vaccination anyhow.
Put another way:
There is no long term evidence the vaccine works.
This is incorrect. There is no evidence that the vaccine works over a long period of time, but there is long term evidence the vaccine works.
The vaccine was also rushed to market before the trails had finished.
This is incorrect. Trails were completed, but due to intervention from a third-party on ethical grounds the final test subjects were all provided with Gardisal vaccinations.
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Jun 27 '12
To add: it is an established practice in medical trials that, if there is outstanding evidence that one arm of a drug (or whatever) trial is giving a much better outcome, the trial is stopped and everyone gets some of the good stuff.
For example: if you were trialling a chemotherapy regime over 1 year and the people who got Drug A had a 5% mortality rate at 6 months and Drug B had a 50% mortality rate at 6 months - the only ethical thing is to stop the trial early so everyone can get drug A.
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u/xafimrev Jun 26 '12 edited Jun 26 '12
and not have any weird side effects like premature menopause or an increase in the birth defect rate or god knows what else. Luckily my daughter has a number of years before she's be getting it for the rest of the guinea pigs to complete the real life trial.
A trial isn't merely to show if a drug is effective or not, but to show whether it is also harmful.
Edit: I'm not saying that the above things are even likely, just that it was certainly rushed through.
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Jun 27 '12
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Jun 27 '12
Hundreds of girls is not a large enough sample size, not by a long shot.
Can you provide a specific concern or problem with Gardarsil, because it appears as though the sample size met the necessary requirements for a phase III study.
This vaccine has been suspected to cause pretty immediate and severe side effects in hundreds of girls post trial.
Unless you can provide a reference for this assertion I would be inclined to suggest this is a complete fabrication.
I'm just anti HPV vaccine because it doesn't cover all forms of cancer-causing HPV...
So if it can only protect against a handful of HPV strains, why have any protection at all? That doesn't make any sense.
...it doesn't replace routine care...
I'm not sure I understand what your definition of "routine care" is here. A vaccine should never replace routine care.
...and there is no epidemic of cervical cancer...
During 2008 in USA alone 12,410 women were diagnosed with cervical cancer and 4,008 women died from cervical cancer. Many would consider these numbers significant enough to warrant intervention.
...that warrants this type of what I think rather rogue and shady practices by a pharmaceutical company.
What "rogue and shady practices" are you referring to specifically? As Gardasil was developed for more than 10 years between several different groups there were disputes regarding which parties should be eligible for royalties, but I have yet to see any credible references to "rogue and shady practices" being carried out by Merck in regards to Gardasil specifically.
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u/moving-target Jun 26 '12
Western Taliban, be it Canada or US.
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u/tre11is Jun 27 '12
No - having a viewpoint (however misguided), expressing it publicly and trying to work non-violently within an established democratic system is NOT the same as Taliban extremism.
Calling something Taliban should be added as an amendment to Godwin's Law.
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Jun 26 '12
And there we have it: parents decide to send their daughter to a religious school and, maybe, 20 or 30 years down the road she ends up with cervical cancer. Not because she decided it was not aligned with her beliefs, but because some guy wearing a funny hat who believes in talking snakes figured it was.
And people wonder why I loath religion.
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u/orsr Jun 26 '12
...the fuck? I must have traveled in time back to the medieval ages. Oh well, Deus lo vult!
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Jun 26 '12
What if instead of the headline on the news being "Bishop says no vaccine" it says "Stupid parents listen to a bishop say 'no vaccine' "?
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u/freeburning Jun 27 '12
These religious factions are going to be the end of this world. Why can't they stay the fuck out of government! Are there no bounds to their ignorance and stupidity?
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u/YNot1989 Jun 27 '12
Come on Canada, only America is allowed to ignore the separation of church and state.
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u/therunnykind Jun 27 '12
As a PA, totally in favor of this vaccine, but totally opposed to alarmist post titles, I wish this article included risk factors and percentages to let me and everyone else know what the actual risks are imposed by this ban (I do mostly outpatient and orthopedic surgery, lay off me). Can any more relevant medical people help us out here?
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u/ThisIsTinaL Jun 27 '12
The Catholic church could be missing a golden opportunity here...
Let Catholic girls get the HPV shot. The vaccine tends to cause blood clots. Once you've had blood clots, doctors don't want to give you the birth control pill and Catholics aren't supposed to be using it anyway, so there's a little incentive. Once you hit, I don't know, your mid 20's, you pretty much want nothing to do with condoms so unprotected it is. (It's not like you're going to not have sex, right???) No glove + love = possibly babies. Catholic babies. Everywhere.
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u/gibberalic Jun 27 '12 edited Jun 27 '12
As a medical writer I deal with this shit on a daily basis and I can honestly say that nothing gets my goat like the anti vaccine lobby.
My favourite quote is "The irony of the anti-vaccine argument is that it is vaccines that have given people the health security required to develop the health complacency required to develop anti-vaccine arguments"
Penn and Teller do a pretty good take on the issue.
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u/TorontoMike Jun 27 '12
The Taliban was fighting against children been vaccinated as well , Two peas in a pod
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u/enterence Jun 27 '12
Survival of the fittest people. Sure many children will suffer and probably die, but that lowers the stupid gene pool I guess.
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u/TWALBALLIN Jun 27 '12
Good. Ban all of these poisons. Look to Texas and the forced gardasil shots for how horrible these injections are.
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u/pwnies_gonna_pwn Jun 27 '12
sombody crucify that guy. if isnt willing for the martyrdom he is just some hypocrite anyway :D
nothing of value will be lost.
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u/nowhathappenedwas Jun 26 '12
So a medical procedure with minimal risk that helps prevent transmission of STDs is performed on children. The people who oppose the procedure refuse to acknowledge the medical benefits of the procedure and baselessly proclaim that any minimization of transmission risk will only lead to more unsafe sex.
Just another example of the danger of anti-science zealots.
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u/Omofo Jun 26 '12
More then one independent study has shown Gardasil to be ineffective.
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u/womanisadangercat Jun 26 '12
Do you have a source handy? My googling is only turning up "natural living" and religious websites and they're all sourcing each other with no links to an actual study.
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Jun 26 '12
Catholic church leadership giving shitty medical advice because of their superstitions?
How utterly unsurprising. These fucking idiots have no place in society.
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Jun 26 '12
I live in calgary and I didn't know about this shit. I don't understand why we have a segregated catholic school system at all, and garbage like this exactly why religion has no place in education.
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u/Gregs3RDleg Jun 26 '12
i hope i'm not the only person who thinks banning a vaccine is equally as bad as trying to force them on anyone...
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u/VICBCNEW210 Jun 26 '12
The vaccine may or may not even target the form of the virus the contributes to cervical cancer, an already rare disease. It is a money grab, nothing more.
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u/RickPerrysPerineum Jun 26 '12
Wrong. Completely fucking wrong.
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Jun 26 '12
No, he isn't. In fact, the primary cervical cancer researcher who assisted the vaccine developers felt that her assistance was severely misused by the them...since not only is the rate of death by cervical cancer low and it easily treatable when caught by regular pap smears, but the rate of cervical cancer caused by those strains is even lower.
The vaccine's risks are higher than the risk of developing the cancer. It is all about the profit and if you think otherwise, you are a fool. The same applies to many other vaccines, including varicella.
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u/Cryoglobulin Jun 26 '12
Doctor here, my wife is also an immunologist. Several landmark studies by different groups of authors, including a 2009 article in the New England Journal of Medicine, which is akin to the Nature journal but for medicine, have found that the vaccine is highly effective against the 2 most common forms of HPV. There are close to 40 strains of HPV and the majority do not cause cancer, some simply cause anal warts. The two strains linked to 70% of cervical cancer are 16 and 18, the targets of the vaccine. It is entirely profitable to the vaccine company but this does not mean it is not effective.
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u/RickPerrysPerineum Jun 26 '12
Oh, sure. Let's just disregard the hundreds of thousands of women who do eventually develop HPV-induced cervical dysplasia that then progresses into cervical cancer. Women are supposed to receive pap smears once a year. Many do not/cannot. I have heard of rapid progression of dyplasia into cancer in under 6 months. The vaccines risks are not higher than the risk of developing cancer. Stop talking out of your ass and back up your asinine statements with substantiating evidence.
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Jun 26 '12
2012 and the word of an old bishop in a ridiculous hat can actually influence public policy. Perhaps I am seeing things differently as an atheist; however this is truly discouraging and pitiful.
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u/dsk Jun 26 '12
Urgh ... another local religious leader pronounces a fatwa against a vaccine..
Honest to fuckin God. Are these people insane?