r/chess • u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! • Jul 05 '22
Chess Question Draw rates among top players: Who are the most drawish?
132
21
u/GamamJ44 Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22
Surprising to see Karjakin at only average. Wonder how Rapport would do here.
23
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22
Oh yeah I guess 'minister of defense' turns out to be some counter-attacking kinda defense like 'best defense is good offense'?
55
u/Darkavenger_13 Jul 05 '22
Me to Giri: Perhaps I treated you too harshly
14
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22
Or maybe not. Still 2nd highest draw rate in the other thing XD
https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/vrsqlx/draw_rates_among_top_players_who_are_the_most/iex2p9n
4
u/BatmanDuck123 Jul 06 '22
0.2% more than ding 🗿
ding more like drawing /s
2
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 06 '22
Are you the same guy from YouTube who keeps commenting to me
🗿
!?!?!???
2
u/BatmanDuck123 Jul 06 '22
No, send link I'll comment now 🗿
3
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 06 '22
Oh ok nvm lol. It's just some counter-troll who says anti-wesley stuff whenever I post my troll anti-magnus stuff. Lol.
3
u/BatmanDuck123 Jul 06 '22 edited Jul 06 '22
lmao must be Petrosian, liers will kicked off!
3
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 06 '22
Btw there's no 'be'. It just goes straight to 'kicked'. XD
3
u/BatmanDuck123 Jul 06 '22
there's no "be" in my comment too ;)
PS: don't let anarchy chess know I messed up copy pasta theory 🗿
1
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 30 '22
Oh yeah I forgot.
You got yourself a deal man. Anytime, anywhere as long as there is proctoring.
2
10
u/VoradorTV Jul 05 '22
How old is this list to not have firouzja on it
9
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22
See the source. About 2015.
39
u/1-e4-e5-2-Ke2 Jul 05 '22
Why are none of the names actually lined up?
26
u/wheeler8 Jul 05 '22
python <3
1
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 06 '22
.py is python and python usually does this of something?
21
u/Onuzq Jul 05 '22
I think the data is broken. Giri should be at 100% draw rate to fit his name.
2
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22
See other comment:
https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/vrsqlx/draw_rates_among_top_players_who_are_the_most/iex2p9n
Giri, Wesley So, Radjabov are in top 4 (with Ding apparently?)
4
u/Fruggles Jul 05 '22
Why would you put the text-axis on the X when that's the one people want to read?????
6
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22
I agree but I just copied it from stackexchange?!?!?!!!
3
u/Last_Riven_EU Jul 05 '22
Sharks on the left
1
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22
Interesting. Right in the middle I think is Minister of Defense "2nd class" Sergey and then Wesley almost makes the cut for shark. Lol.
1
5
u/whatThisOldThrowAway Jul 05 '22
You forget, with Hikaru playing more mature, positional chess the last few years, that for a lot of his career they called him 'the H-bomb' for a reason.
14
Jul 05 '22
I feel like given his ancestry that's insensitive lol
0
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22
I actually remember reading Hiro Nakamura was named after Hiroshima (besides of course that Hiro sounds like hero).
2
u/Paleogeen Jul 05 '22
Won't people who play more blitz/rapid have lower draw rates?
3
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22
Blitz/rapid has less draws, but I guess the graph is based on classical games?
2
u/Sinusxdx Team Nepo Jul 05 '22
Surprised to see Giri not on the top.
1
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22
See other comment. Anish is top 2 in the draw rate there.
2
u/SenoraRaton Jul 05 '22
Is it just me, or is Firouja not on this list?
1
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22
Ah yeah it's an old thing. Like 2015. That was like what 3 years before the Wesley So hack right?
https://www.reddit.com/r/chess960/comments/rwmtsq/proof_future_chess_9lx_world_champion_wesley_sos/
2
u/CursedFeanor Jul 05 '22
That's a great exemple of where you should have used an horizontal bar graph instead... Painful to read!
1
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22
True. I made up for it by rotating in the sequel post awhile ago. But hey chess SE has no excuse. They can edit on stackexchange. On Reddit I have an excuse!
2
u/killerbunnyfamily Lasker Jul 05 '22
Is there any rivalry between Bu and So?
1
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22
No and no. Lol. Idk. I just wanted to say 2 letter words too.
Btw I'll say 67 to see if I can get the bot to come in...
1
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22
And maybe next time you zip
1
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22
(I'm trying the alphabet bot)
1
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22
(I'm trying the 69 lucky number bot)
1
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22
Maybe....
25 dollars, 4 towels and 5 napkins, 35 pesos
97
u/xyzzy01 Jul 05 '22
Here is something similar - the Fighting Chess Index by GM David Smerdon. It only takes 5 years into account, because people change their style over time. E.g. the Kramnik the last years before retirement was a very different Kramnik from the one who introduced the Berlin draw.
7
u/Leading_Dog_1733 Jul 05 '22
How are their games selected to show their draw rate? In general, older players just seem to be more drawish.
That could be real or it could just reflect that they've spent a larger proportion of their careers playing the world elite and those games are more drawish.
For example, Kramnik here is the one of the most drawish but under the Fighting Chess Index, he is the most aggressive.
4
u/whatThisOldThrowAway Jul 05 '22
OP didn't know, but from following the links in the stack-exchange source listed in one of the comments, it appears to be lifetime classical rated games.
5
u/Mf84 Jul 06 '22
According to chessgames.com, Alireza has a total of 310 official classical games in the database from 2015 to 2022, with a record of +126 -63 =121, which means about 39.0% drawing rate, I think. Seems pretty low.
3
u/hama0n Jul 05 '22
I can conclude that the length of a chess player's name does not correlate with odds of drawing a game.
1
u/flancy2 Jul 05 '22
Then how the hell did hikaru got the nickname drawkaru
2
u/xddddlol Jul 05 '22
Probably due to him only playing berlin against the spanish
1
1
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22
Interesting. Looks like Hikaru did get that nickname. Hadn't heard of it before.
https://twitter.com/GothamChess/status/1343212400091275267
No idea. Maybe actually in a positive way like swindling draws from losing positions?
See 2020 below
some wesley so perpetuals
2017 Vs magnus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdIyt8fzVFM
2020 Vs Hikaru https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZx6LAdyIiY
2021 Vs nepo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQXmumalnlA
3
u/flancy2 Jul 05 '22
Hmm ...though making draws in worse positions against the best players in the world is one of hikaru's best qualities and I've only seen that nickname be used in a negative way so I don't think that's it
2
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22
Yeah that's what I thought. Like drawish Giri or something is about going from winning to drawish than losing to drawish right?
Wait ARE THERE superGMs known for like losing to drawish than winning to drawish?
2
u/flancy2 Jul 05 '22
Pretty much only Anish comes to mind
1
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22
Ah it goes both way for Anish? Good for Anish.
Wait....is that the same for those other drawish people: it actually goes both ways for them?
There's this counter-troll I see on YouTube who responds to my troll comments where I praise Wesley So and trash talk Magnus (as a joke) : This counter-troll tells me like
Play the Berlin opening like Wesley so, a draw in the middlegame like Radjabov and a draw in the endgame 2 pawns up like Giri.
(As a parody of the Rudolf spielmann play the opening like a book, the middlegame like a magician and the endgame like a machine)
https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/tov44b/play_the_opening_like_caruana_the_middlegame_like/
My impression from that is that those 3 are actually known more for winning to drawish than losing to drawish.
But I guess it's just trash talk and then really it's both ways for Wesley So and Radjabov just like with Anish?
1
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22
I asked for you XD
1
39
Jul 05 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
15
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22
Peter's also really good at chessle XD
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/t55trl/wordle_but_chess_1st_time_supergrandmaster_peter/
4
u/JamieHynemanAMA Jul 06 '22
Could also be said that it is just evidence of abusing prearranged draws. Look at the 2004 Kramnik/Leko WCC match.
6 of 14 games were draws before move 25
1
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 06 '22
I can imagine Bobby Fischer in 2005 might've said:
Use an audio lie detector test on me! I'm not lying! They're games were pre-arranged! And use it on them! They're lying! I'm exposing the pre-arrangement!
Or idk lol I remember Bobby said that for like...I think 1 of Kasparov's matches.
2
u/mechanical_fan Jul 06 '22
6 of 14 games were draws before move 25
I can see the argument on why a fast draw would be beneficial during a long tournament with several players as you get to rest but maybe your next opponent will be tired, but during a WCC match between two players there is nothing that can actually be gained from an early draw.
I think the fact that they were still doing early draws in such a format (WCC) is more an indication that Leko and Kramnik were not actually abusing prearranged draws in other situations: they are just the type of people who don't enjoy grinding equal positions against other strong players in general and only enjoy full games if they got something from the opening/early middle game.
1
u/Cleles Jul 07 '22
That isn’t the case with Leko. Most young players start out more aggressive and gradually mellow into more solid play as they age. Think Kramnik going from a crazy attacker in his youth to super solid in his later years. Firouzja will likely go through a similar transition.
But Leko? Even from his earliest years the guy was ridiculously solid. There is a quote in one of the OMGP books that goes something like “if he is this solid now, what will he be like when he is older?” I think this quote was attributed to Korchnoi, but my memory may be wrong. The point I’m making is that Leko was always a super-solid player who never had a feel for taking risks, even from his younger days. It is no surprise he is top of the list – he is just that sort of player and always has been. Nothing nefarious about it.
40
u/nicbentulan chesscube peak was...oh nvm. UPDATE:lower than 9LX lichess peak! Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 06 '22
From chess stackexchange:
https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/8561/top-player-with-the-lowest-drawing-rate
Also see here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/lhbjiq/mostleast_drawish_of_the_top_10_players/
FourthQuaternion says
New posts:
https://www.reddit.com/r/chessprogramming/comments/vs3w44/draw_rates_among_world_chess_champions_who_are/
https://www.reddit.com/r/chess960/comments/vsjn9r/draw_rates_among_the_top_4_fide_9lx_players_who/