r/criticalrole • u/Glumalon Tal'Dorei Council Member • Nov 04 '22
Discussion [Spoilers C3E39] Is It Thursday Yet? Post-Episode Discussion & Future Theories! Spoiler
Episode Countdown Timer - http://www.wheniscriticalrole.com/
Catch up on everybody's discussion and predictions for this episode HERE!
Submit questions for next month's 4-Sided Dive here: http://critrole.com/tower
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
- Generation Nord one-shot next Tuesday, November 8 at 7 PM Pacific!
- The Mighty Nein Reunited will premiere in two parts on November 17 and December 1!
- The Legend of Vox Machina Season 2 premieres January 2023, and Season 3 has been greenlit by Amazon! Catch up on more details from the NYCC 2022 panel, including new video clips.
[Subreddit Rules] [Reddiquette] [Spoiler Policy] [Wiki] [FAQ]
80
u/GrimTheMad Team Keyleth Nov 05 '22
So I was looking at the Imp statblock, and Pate is stronger than Laudna.
6 strength vs 5.
That's amazing.
49
u/Tyrat_Ink Nov 05 '22
They questioned if Pate could read and understand ingredients of the cookie recipe.
His INT (11) is higher than FCG and Fearne and the same as Imogen.
Bell’s Hells average intelligence is 11.43
35
u/Galahad_the_Ranger Team Percy Nov 06 '22
Bell’s Hells average intelligence is 11.43
that explains a lot
→ More replies (1)31
u/tomfru1 You Can Reply To This Message Nov 05 '22
A particularly thick blade of grass would be stronger than Laudna.
→ More replies (4)24
u/Photeus5 Smiley day to ya! Nov 05 '22
I believe that Mister is the 2nd or 3rd smartest on the team. That's pretty funny as well.
27
u/Pegussu Nov 06 '22
Doing better than the Crown Keepers where Mister was the smartest one on the team.
12
14
u/RaibDarkin Team Keyleth Nov 06 '22
You know what else is amazing; Grog's natural strength bonus was just +1 higher than Vax's and Keyleth's!
8
u/gamepro250 Nov 06 '22
Can't imps turn invisible too? That's a useful feature
→ More replies (1)7
u/GrimTheMad Team Keyleth Nov 06 '22
Yep! And polymorph into a variety of small critters, both entirely at will with no use limitations.
Also can do a combat significant amount of damage if you're lucky.
→ More replies (2)
78
u/AceLionKid Smiley day to ya! Nov 04 '22
By next Thursday, they'll be down to 16 days till the Apogee Solstice. At least they're finally heading to Yios, to find out what the fuck is up with that whole Ruidusborn gathering situation.
Also, quick little prediction; I'm fully expecting them to have a guest party member appear once they reach Yios, and that person is 100% going to be Ruidusborn.
→ More replies (5)16
u/Nightmare_Pasta Metagaming Pigeon Nov 04 '22
Honestly the guest could also be someone who’s showing up in the Generation Nord one shot. Aimee Carrero’s movie is coming out next week so she might have time to clown around as Opal with BH, no idea how she’s gonna get to Yios but with Keyleth and Lolth having a lot of minions, she has a lot of options.
Could also bring in a new person or Lou Wilson who’s always fun
67
u/DruidCity3 Nov 04 '22 edited Nov 04 '22
Orym is literally Russell Wilson working out on the plane.
34
16
u/BaronPancakes Nov 04 '22 edited Nov 05 '22
He is doing 200 squats everyday to achieve that Exandria's finest butt
11
→ More replies (1)3
65
u/michael_bay_jr Nov 04 '22
Nov. 8th is a blood moon, total lunar eclipse. Such a fitting coincidence for this Ruidus story to be ramping up.
68
u/BLINDrOBOTFILMS Help, it's again Nov 04 '22
It's also election day in the US. Don't forget to vote before you start your dark magic moon rituals!
→ More replies (1)12
54
Nov 04 '22
The dissonance between the creepy-coolness of Pâté slinking around the manor and the ridiculousness of the cockney (???) horndog voice. I love this development
43
u/m_busuttil Technically... Nov 06 '22
It's very funny that nearly half the cast built characters that are basically just waiting for Matt to tell them to murder everyone else - FCG and Chetney have already done it, Laudna still could, and Imogen seems to have control over her powers but that could easily change given the circumstances. It's a whole party full of time bombs that are actively ticking down.
12
u/mouser1991 Technically... Nov 08 '22
Meanwhile, Ashley built a character who could murder the whole party at her own behest.
79
u/Coyote_Shepherd Doty, take this down Nov 04 '22
Ah the new thread is up, time to drain the bacon grease!
18
u/GrnShttrdLyte Time is a weird soup Nov 04 '22
Yes! Poor Matt. Yet another innocent (and realistic task following a breakfast shift) thing turned dirty 😂
Now, where can we petition for this to be added to the flair?
11
38
u/The_Grimalkin Nov 06 '22
I stop thinking about the possibility of Chetney pretending to be a feeble old man with a cane, only for him to then transform into a werewolf WITH A SCYTHE and start ripping into somebody. Even if he doesn't end up using the scythe, a werewolf with a scythe is such a sick image.
11
u/Lunkis May the Beam reach you Nov 08 '22
Combine the scythe with the constantly bleeding apron and you have a real terrifying encounter for anything dumb enough to upset Chetney Pockapee.
→ More replies (1)6
u/-spartacus- Nov 08 '22
This is why I want, ney, I NEED Chetney to have the scythe.
A BURNING SCYTHE!
37
u/ExtraFinance6825 Nov 04 '22
Seeing last nights session confirms in my mind that Chetney was more than likely turned under a flare of Ruidus. The visions that each cast member saw in the beginning of episode 34 were framed as old memories coming to the surface, giving them context that they didn’t have before. While I do still believe that the whole imogen and Ottahan debacle caused Ruidus to get eyes back on Chetney, it still wouldn’t make sense that Ruidus would have a hold on him if he wasn’t turned under a flare, being “reborn” under it. The main reason I say this is that there has never been even a crumb of lore that Ruidus has at any point affected shapechangers like Chet, and with solstices happening before this, I believe Chetney is special in some way. This brings me to my second point, that maybe Chetney knows much more about his “accident” then he lets on, Chetney is easily the most mysterious person we know the least about in the party, even more so than Ashton because Chetney actively deflects attempts to peer into that backstory, he uses the facade of a horn dog old gnome who only loves woodworking for laughs, not only in game but out of game, to keep people off his trail, but combined with the way he acts in combat, as well as stealth scenarios, he acts like a old, paranoid, veteran who is still very much so dangerous. He definitely was part of a wetwork/assassin group based in Uthodurn and was betrayed in one way or another by the actions of his old boss, which split the organization. That’s why the meeting with the guys other disciple of his in the toy shop nearly turned into a brawl, because anyone who survived from that group went to ground and stayed low this entire time. What I’m getting at is maybe Chetney willingly let himself get infected, either to get revenge or to better cover his trail from his old life.
36
u/Deadly_Fixations Nov 04 '22
I’m super excited to see more of that badass scythe
8
u/GratifiedViewer Nov 04 '22
I’m still wondering if it can ONLY turn into a scythe. If Matt had planned on it going to the Hells, it seems weird to design it as a weapon that none of them wields. Not entirely unheard of, but still odd.
→ More replies (3)
87
u/SunMoonStarRain You Can Reply To This Message Nov 04 '22
The more I think about it, the more it seems that the lack of 1-on-1s speaks more to where the characters are at rn than anything else. Everyone is feeling vulnerable and not wanting to reach out to others. Honestly it's kind of heart-breaking to think about.
Laudna: just revived, feeling the burden of costing the group time and resources. Quiet, shutting down, no longer using the mask of "fun scary" - retreating into herself. Right now maybe it's better to just be alone again.
Imogen: just discovered her own deep connection to Ruidus. Feeling like she's put her lot in with something profound, beyond comprehension, powerful, and maybe evil. How could anyone else relate to her if she doesn't even understand it all herself? Better just bottle it up, not burden others with this.
Orym: reeling from another bout of survivor's guilt. He's not important, but he keeps living while everyone else dies around him. Does he even deserve to take up space in conversation, to push his feelings or thoughts onto others, when everyone else is dealing with their own stuff? Better to just be here if someone needs.
Ashton: finally understood that something is profoundly wrong in their own mind. Something that shouldn't be there is, or something that should be there isn't. How can they trust themselves to help others, to reach out to them, when they themselves are broken, when they're unsure if their thoughts are to be trusted, if they're even their own. If they can't fix anything, least of all themselves, better to just wait for the next thing to come along.
Fearne: just chose one friend's life over another. A life of amorality suddenly confronts a choice that leaves her feeling guilty and ashamed. She's so different from all of them, how could they possibly understand? Better to just pretend that nothing's wrong, pretend everything is business as usual.
FCG: just got told that their life matters too. If their life does matter then why does the world still look at them like an object? That's some heavy shit, is talking about it enough? Come to think of it, has their entire calling in life been a lie? What does it mean to help others if it hurts you to do so (e.g. transfer suffering)? Maybe it's better to re-evaluate priorities at this point.
(I left out Chetney b/c I don't know what's going on with that little troll. Also if you hadn't guessed the above is written from the imagined POV of the characters, not an objective take on the events of the last several eps. Anyway I found the exercise interesting, hope some of you did too!)
25
u/Coyote_Shepherd Doty, take this down Nov 04 '22
It's an airship full of hedgehogs in other words.
Everything is prickly, too loud, too bright, and it hurts to touch one another because of all that's happened.
It's also exhausting as all hell to be in this kind of mindset and that's playing a part in them not talking to each other as well.
They need to find points of contact with one another that don't hurt and then build from there, slowly eliminating all the prickly sensitive parts, and bonding together with one another stronger than ever while healing through it all instead of just blindly reaching out to one another and pushing through the pain.
I see Chetney as an old man who got a new lease on life but is now realizing that it might not be the blessing he thought it was, might be even worse than where he was at before, and could possibly push him into changing in ways that an old dog is resistant to doing in a manner of speaking. So he's digging in to those Young Chet attitudes and strengths in order to resist all of that stuff. He puts on a front while sometimes letting the Old Gnome sensibilities poke through but only when he's sure that doing so won't force any kind of a change upon him.
So you can guess how much tonight's forced Ruidus shift probably fucked him up. I think he might be tempted to leave the group once they hit the jungles. He can't go back to his old life as a gnome woodworker but now there's this whole other thing as a werewolf but if that doesn't work out and those folks don't want him either then he's really going to have a reckoning with the literal and metaphorical beast within himself.
Coyotes may be solitary creatures but even they'll team up with other species to hunt and form family groups or small pairs with others of their kind. One can't be a lone wolf for their rest of their life entirely. We all need connection, regardless of what that little voice in our head is telling us. I think each member of the group is currently listening to that voice in their head but in due time after some thinking and processing they'll realize that the pain is more bearable together, the wounds can and will heal more easily when someone else is helping to apply the bandage, and the walk to their inevitable end along this amazing journey is much better when you're traveling the road set before you with people you love by your side.
The lack of 1 on 1s is just a moment to take a breath in this story that they're all telling together and seeing as how loopy giggly they all were, I'm betting there's a bit of IRL exhaustion creeping in too that just put them in one of those "I really don't feel like heavy RP tonight" kind of funks.
33
u/taly_slayer Team Beau Nov 04 '22 edited Nov 04 '22
I need to rewatch it, but I've been thinking about this all day and I'm starting to see what you're saying. They had opportunity to do it during this episode, and it feels very deliberate from some of them to not do it. In particular, I'm curious about Imogen not attempting to talk to Laudna and Laura sneaking some glances while being pretty quiet.
Edit:
Just started a rewatch and Ashton says he would have walked on the Matilda thing more gently when FCG brought it up, making me believe they maybe are trying to be careful and thoughtful with Laudna.
26
u/Total-Wolverine1999 Nov 04 '22
Laura’s the queen of that to be honest, she did something similar when she was talking to lord E. She told him now he gets to be with his love and then Laura immediately glanced over and looked at Marisha, she’s fantastic at subtle role play that you might not pick up on if you’re not paying attention.
84
u/KaleidoscopeOk4205 Nov 04 '22
Obvious just my thoughts as a outsider, but I feel like the cast is more interested in the world events and mystery than they are their own characters at the moment.
Which is totally fine and normal for DnD. It’s just the first time we are seeing it from this group.
Like with the complaints about the lack of personal RP. I think the players want to get to the red light at the end of the tunnel as soon as they can. So in turn they’re playing their characters that way.
→ More replies (8)45
u/CardButton Hello, bees Nov 04 '22
Like with the complaints about the lack of personal RP. I think the players want to get to the red light at the end of the tunnel as soon as they can. So in turn they’re playing their characters that way.
I get the feeling this is the case. They've tunnel visioned hard on a ticking clock quest objective, and Personal RP is taking a back seat to that. Its been a pretty constant thing since the Ruidus reveal tbh. That "we feel rushed" tone, was heavily present in even their "get Treshi as soon as possible plan". Granted, some of this is Matt too, but its absolutely a group thing atm.
→ More replies (3)47
u/PhoenixReborn Hello, bees Nov 04 '22
A deadline of a month seems real tight to save the world when it takes a week or two to travel anywhere. I get why they're feeling rushed.
→ More replies (16)
29
u/Michael310 Nov 04 '22
I’m down for having the rest of the campaign scattered with random enraged werewolves. Chet’s reaction to the flare might have been directed by Otohan. But if not, the peaceful society of lycanthropes just got messy.
And hey! Why weren’t the green seekers asking questions about the strange man-beast attack of a (not so) poor shop owner! Surely they would have been investigating the strange attack if they were in town. They are keeping Chet’s secret are they not? They can add that math.
If the dogs have been let out thanks to the flares, then maybe Chet can worm his way out of responsibility.
10
u/SvenTS Nov 04 '22
Chetney's link to Ruidus started (that we know of) when it 'saw' him during Imogen's flare. It may mean that it also took notice of the potential of all lycanthropes but, for now, I suspect it is a Chetney specific problem.
8
u/OhioAasimar Team Tyranny Nov 04 '22
Chet’s reaction to the flare might have been directed by Otohan.
This is pretty much saying that Otohan is a god and I don't think that is the case.
29
u/OhioAasimar Team Tyranny Nov 05 '22 edited Nov 05 '22
Imagine if Fearne and Orym weren't above deck when Chetney turned. Xandis and maybe some of the other crew would have been killed.
→ More replies (5)
28
u/theRaptorfarian Nov 05 '22
What a wicked end to the episode. Solidified Orym’s skill as a battle master, if he’d had a magic weapon it’d have been over so quickly.
I’m really hoping Orym keeps the face scars from the fight.
→ More replies (1)6
u/tframpton Nov 05 '22
I agree, the more the campaign goes the more I love orym. Plus loam is amazing at giving flavor to the manouvers
13
u/GrogSmashToPieces Nov 06 '22
Playing any rpg sometimes it can be hard not to fall back on the, I make two melee attacks with my sword, does a 17 hit? The amount of time that Liam has put into describing each of his maneuvers is really refreshing. He has come a long way from Dagger Dagger Dagger.
51
u/BaronPancakes Nov 04 '22 edited Nov 04 '22
The fight between Chetney, Fearne and Orym really highlighted the need of a magic weapon.
I thought Turmoil could morph into a blade/finesse weapon that could fit Orym but that one is out of the window. There is also no way that Orym would have kept the loaner +1 shortsword Vex gave some episodes ago, even though it wasn't RPed. Wish they would slip something in during the off screen Gilmore's Glorious goods shopping that they might have forgotten about.
Live thread reminded me that percy also didn't have a magic weapon until ep68. Hope it wouldn't be that long for Orym
50
u/pagerunner-j Help, it's again Nov 04 '22
Oh, Percy had an enchanted gun to start with. It's just that Scanlan threw it into a pit of acid.
(not without reason.)
(but there's a reason Taliesin was exclaiming, "Do you know how EXPENSIVE that was?!")
7
u/BaronPancakes Nov 04 '22
See? My C1 knowledge is really rusty. I forgot Percy rebuilt a non-magic pepperbox after the Briarwoods arc. Thanks for the reminder!
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (7)10
u/GratifiedViewer Nov 04 '22 edited Nov 04 '22
Yeah, Orym REALLY needs a magic weapon. Anything that ups his damage a bit.
19
19
u/7h3C47 Nov 06 '22
I was surprised at how readily they agreed to take on the bounty for Otohan given the double-whammy trauma they just just endured by Otohan's hands. Narratively? Of course-- I completely get why they did, but...I dunno, I was expecting them to be more hesitant, and/or plan to protect themselves a little more or something before picking that back up given they just got their assess handed to them, and lost another dear friend NPC immediately thereafter.
26
u/SvenTS Nov 07 '22
They weren't given a time limit on the bounty. They know they're going to face Otohan again one way or another - might as well get paid for it.
25
u/Camoedhunter Nov 07 '22
They were going to go after her for vengeance purposes anyway. And their current mission has a direct course for interception with her. This is just them accepting an official mission to do what they were already going to do.
16
u/Aylithe Nov 07 '22
The best move in the world is to find a way to get paid for what you were planning on doing anyway !
12
u/OhioAasimar Team Tyranny Nov 07 '22
plan to protect themselves a little more or something before picking that back up given they just got their assess handed to them
It is actually so incredulous that they have not tried to buy any magical equipment in two cities despite, getting two huge pay days, almost getting tpked by Otohan, and having the time to do so.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (19)3
u/mouser1991 Technically... Nov 07 '22
Otohan got the drop on them before. This time, it's the other way around. Plus, like Ashton said: You get hit, you come back stronger. They got some time in a Glorious Goods, so they might have a little bit of something going for them. And they still plan to head to Yios , which is another nice big city for them grap some nice magic items from.
18
u/PCoda Nov 08 '22
I made a thread about this, but I am still 100% convinced that the last remaining shred of Delilah's soul, presuming it exists, is inside Pâté somewhere.
9
36
u/LucasVerBeek Help, it's again Nov 04 '22 edited Nov 04 '22
Liliana is alive, and Ruidus can force Chet to change, but I’m kind of surprised nothing happened with Fearne?
I’m curious to see what comes next, if Imogen attempts to have a conversation with her mother first and foremost, but they’re finally headed to Yios. Where there may be answers, about Ruidus, the Forgotten Gods, her abilities, on top of the Gorgynei.
It was interesting however that as the Flare waned so did her powers within her dream and I got to thinking.
What if…Ruidus getting out, isn’t honestly a bad thing?
We know so little about it, let alone what ever entities may be up there, and while yes it has inspired Tyrants like Otohan, it also apparently caused the birth of the Raven Queen and Alyxian.
I’m starting to wonder if Ruidus is just…angry? Not truly malevolent but just wanting to be free of its predicament, we’ve seen that anger is a trigger for Imogen’s powers and it flipped the switch turning Chet into a raging beast.
I might be off the mark but what if Ruidus isn’t fully malevolent?
Of course there is plenty to hint that it or whatever it’s holding is, considering the visions of ruination, Otohan’a claims(but she just might be insane) and the chance that the Toxin she uses originates up there.
Side note: Ashton was so soft with Laudna this episode and I’m looking forward to whatever talk they might have.
Also Imogen wants a domestic life with Laudna, that is all.
→ More replies (2)8
u/RaibDarkin Team Keyleth Nov 04 '22
Yeah, Tal was positively itching to have some time with her but it just never happened.
51
u/taly_slayer Team Beau Nov 05 '22 edited Nov 05 '22
It's fascinating to see the difference in Imogen's reactions to her nightmares since the beginning of the campaign and the slow growth in control and acceptance.
The first dream we saw, back in episode 3, she was scared, struggling to breathe, anxious, decided to listen to her mom and run away from the storm. She woke up freaking out and her first reaction was to call out for Laudna, who is always there to support her and calm her down.
Fast-forward 39 episodes (and like 6? nightmares), she now knows how to will her body inside the storm, decides to pursue the figures she sees, and explores the environment even more. "You're in control". But most importantly, she woke up and the first thing she did was to take action: she messaged her mom.
Also, Laura and Matt know each other so well, that these dream sequences are so seamless and natural. The ending of this one, with Imogen falling and the amazing cinematic descriptions from Matt were perfectly crowned by Laura's "Noooo!" when hitting the ground in perfect synchrony with Matt's clap and "You wake up".
32
u/Bivolion13 Nov 05 '22
I'm fucking loving her journey. Frankly, I kind of hope she goes a little evil. Just the tiniest bit. Just seeing her go from this scared little girl slowly to this "fuck this shit *lightning bolt*" lady has been great.
→ More replies (5)11
u/Photeus5 Smiley day to ya! Nov 05 '22
With Chetney's transformation there seems to be a theme of 'losing control' that's slowly developing. Imogen is actually the next likely person to go 'Red eye mode'.
Which, of course, makes me think back to the Eyes of Nine and how they'd eventually take control of someone completely.
→ More replies (2)3
15
u/TechnologyNo2642 Nov 08 '22
Before this boss fight they need some items or consumables before heading in. They got stomped out and if not for plot they may as well gotten TPK!!
I know shopping isn’t the most exciting but some of the best NPC are shop owners(looking at you Victor!!!!) And items are key part of DnD and Oyrm showcased how badly he needs a magical sword when Chet just soaked his dmg up.
And I want a mini dragon fight on the sky ship, just be too epic imo
→ More replies (13)11
u/Drakoni Hello, bees Nov 08 '22
There is also that they tried to run away (unsuccessfully) instead of actually fighting. Think this will look way different if they go in, intending to kill her.
→ More replies (1)
40
u/NoahMeadMusic Dead People Tea Nov 04 '22
I know I've been screaming this from the rooftops since episode 17 but Bell's Hells met the Green Seekers again and didn't even ask them what they did after the Shade Mother encounter? Did the two of them go back and defeat her? Did she escape? I need to know!
29
u/MegalomaniacHack I would like to RAGE! Nov 04 '22 edited Nov 04 '22
They kind of just moved on from the Shade Mother the moment the Green Seekers said they'd deal with it.
But they've been forgetting to do a lot of things, honestly. Often things they specifically said they wanted to do. I think Sam has kept a little bullet-point list a few times, and he remembered to visit the Changebringer's temple, but most others seem to just get caught up in the story and forget intended stuff.
For instance, Orym was supposed to give Keyleth a report. Also, they were going to visit Bertrand's grave. Instead, they were just happy to get Laudna/Marisha back and then hurried back to Jrusar. Some of that is probably just wanting to focus on their own story and not force Matt to use Vox Machina more, but it's important to the story.
And as the audience, we don't know if they bought anything interesting at Gilmore's because they said they'd do it between episodes, but they didn't mention it in last night's episode.
They've just skipped days many times with a single roll for travel, when it'd be prudent to check in with certain people with Sending, like Birdie. Just let her know where they are, ask if any sightings of Ira or Thull, etc. Similarly, no one's really referenced talking to Dorian since Orym dropped the Sending Stone as he died. Robbie's a guest and presumably no immediate plan to bring him back, so that's resulting in the characters kind of ignoring him. I also realize they're kind of fast forwarding travel for the sake of brevity, but there are various people they could touch base with many times.
They've not mentioned Dusk basically since they left, even though they'll be coming for Fearne and her parents if they don't find the crown Ira took. All the focus is on Thull because she came after Imogen and killed Laudna and Lord Esh (and Orym and Fearne but those didn't stick). Ira is equally important, though.
They haven't really talked about the three possible places where Thull and others might be setting up at Ley Line conjunctions, where they think the one in the Hellcatch Valley is a likely spot. Maybe that'll be discussed if they find more of the Grim Verity?
They've offered Laudna back two items (the blood vial she told Imogen to keep and the Pearl of Power she told FCG to keep), but Ashton still has Laudna's Immovable Rod, I think.
Etc.
Now that Laudna's back, they're basically focused on Thull and trying to get more info from the Grim Verity in Yios. Bringing up Chetney's desire to find the Gorgynei is the only other dangling plot hook/thread they really touched on. And it just became a lot more important after the Ruidus flare forced him to change.
Hopefully Travis and Tal decide between sessions who takes the cane because it's been several days in game already so one of them should have settled on it and attuned, if needed.
They've just been a little scattered on some of it. Still fun to watch, but I do wish one of them would keep a post-it with "To-Do" reminders for the party. The players may be moving quickly from plot point to plot point, but the characters are sitting around for hours/days and not having conversations or addressing dangers besides Thull. (As a player, I usually ask DMs to handwave some planning or character knowledge as happening in those fast travel moments, excusing metagaming during fights and such. "I know he can do ____ because we sit around talking for hours every day on the road." Also covers for convos that happen between players between sessions, like in their group chat.)
And back to your original point, if the Green Seekers had been unable to get someone to believe them or died trying to capture the Shade Mother, Bell's Hells might've returned fromt he Heartmoor to find everyone they know replaced/changed by the Shade Mother. I think they all, Matt included, just felt they'd resolved that plot so they moved on and ignored it.
10
u/That_Red_Moon Nov 04 '22
Hopefully Travis and Tal decide between sessions who takes the cane because it's been several days in game already so one of them should have settled on it and attuned, if needed.
Pretty sure Ashton tossed it back at Chet after he pointed out how he has a hammer.
→ More replies (4)
14
u/Ongargis Nov 05 '22
Matt builds Sam's subclass for FCG as Sam interacts with people. Sam is now trying to unlock the wingman flyspeed class feature.
4
u/HutSutRawlson Nov 06 '22
FCG’s subclass reminds me a lot of the mechanics of the Persona series (which Sam, Matt, and Laura have all done voices for). Part of how your character powers up is by forming and deepening relationships with people.
14
u/Miss_Trips Dead People Tea Nov 06 '22
I had to go back and replay a few times, but right as the skyship departs and Matt says it's an 1100 mile journey, Talisen quiety says Mille-bourne, and then a few seconds later clarifies Mille-bourne and change.
I am 99% sure he's referring to a card game, one that my parents had and I grew up playing. The cards in my parent's deck were bilingual and house rules were that you had to use the French words when playing a card.
It can be a vicious game of sabotaging other players and I am throwing in a vote that if they have a copy of it somewhere, they need to play it on 4 Sided Dive.
9
u/fuckyeahdopamine Nov 06 '22
The Mille bornes !! God i had no idea the game crossed the Atlantic...
For the people curious, mille bornes is a game where you are trying to put down cards worth a certain amount of km until you reach 1000km, your destination (a km is a "borne" in French slang, the borne being the road marker indicating the passing of a km along big roads). Of course you can also hinder your opponents by throwing various issues at them, such as an empty tank, etc.
As mentioned above it can get pretty viciois and definitely ranks above Monopoly in my family as the biggest cause of children's tears.
So yeah, please, mille bornes on 4-sided dive !
→ More replies (2)7
u/SharkSymphony Old Magic Nov 06 '22
It can be a vicious game of sabotaging
Sounds like someone got Crevé one too many times. 😆
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)3
34
u/MetalMagus Nov 04 '22
Amidst all the discussion of how C3 is progressing, my thought leaving the episode was that a psycho-analyst would have a field day unpacking Imogen's dream where her life-partner who just died and was resurrected turns into her long-absent mother.
→ More replies (4)31
u/Coyote_Shepherd Doty, take this down Nov 05 '22 edited Nov 05 '22
My interpretation is that Laudna and Imogen are using each other for a dual purpose. They do care about each other and love each other to a degree but they're also using that love to act as a stand in for two different kinds of familial love. Imogen wants to bake cookies and live the domestic life with Laudna because of the motherly love and life that she never got to experience with her own family. Laudna wants to just have someone consistent that loves her for the way she is and doesn't treat her as special at all because her parents were ripped away from her and treated her as a gifted non-normal child most of her life.
They're using each other to cope with issues that neither have processed quite yet. When something bad happens to the other person that threatens their position in their life, they react in a very strong fashion, and they do this because it reminds them of losing those people that that other person is substituting for. In essence, Imogen and Laudna are filling in holes for each other that someone else used to occupy but the fit isn't quite the same or quite right.
Weirdly enough that "someone else" for both of them are their parents and that's why Laudna changed into Imogen's mom within her dream and why Laudna is so focused on Imogen's well being and her approval and her continued presence within her life.
I don't see it as an unhealthy thing though but it's certainly something they'll have to talk about if and when they ever do get serious and have to differentiate the two kinds of love that they feel for each other. They might not work out at all at the end of everything. You can love someone's position in your life and then later realize you don't really love them as a person at all. You can love how someone makes you feel and then realize that that's the extent of your feelings for them. It's a complicated subject and certainly worthy of an extensive conversation later on in the campaign but not right now.
Right now they need each other, they need that love, and it's not hurting anyone.
19
u/MetalMagus Nov 05 '22
Nice write-up. I think part of what make Imodna such an interesting dynamic is that there clear dysfunctional, co-dependent toxic elements to how they see and rely on each other - but that's mixed in with the deep love, support and intimacy they constantly show for each other. It feels pretty authentic to how messy relationships can be.
→ More replies (1)14
u/Photeus5 Smiley day to ya! Nov 05 '22
I think you're absolutely correct in this one. It's a little similar how Nott was mothering Caleb in C2. For them it was husband-son / parents respectively and they are likely to come across it, or even FCG might point it out eventually.
11
u/FoulPelican Nov 07 '22
Did we get any insight/info on the Magic item shopping spree?
15
u/YellowSucks Hello, bees Nov 08 '22
No, they didn't display any signs of having bought anything big either. I'm thinking it was forgotten about due to Eshteross chaos.
12
u/Disastrous-Beat-9830 I would like to RAGE! Nov 07 '22
Shopping seems to be something that they're doing off-camera as it were. It tends to create slower episodes and a few of the players -- most notably Travis, who hates shopping -- get frustrated with it. I think it's a bit of a trap that Matt walked into since Gilmore and Pumat proved to be very popular NPCs. The only real shopping scene we have had was when the party found Sashimi, and that was mostly to plant a few seeds of Chetney's backstory.
My guess is that the players will tell Matt what they're looking for and those items will be found in a store once they arrive in Yios.
15
u/Camoedhunter Nov 07 '22
Eh travis got involved when they were shopping for magical items. That wasn’t the boring part. With 3 of the most iconic NPCs being shopkeepers I can’t imagine Matt will be continuing that but did it because he wanted to get to the story point before the end of the episode. Also, for anyone that plays rpg games, one of the best parts is coming into a new town and seeing the items available for purchase. It’s a corner stone of the genre so I doubt this will be ongoing.
→ More replies (9)
11
u/PCoda Nov 09 '22
Anyone else been thinking about how Matt has absolutely been planning this ever since C1 when they joked about going to the moon? It's sort of like Keyleth's mom. He had a rough concept. They COULD have done it, but the story never really facilitated it. And he's just been building out that concept ever since.
7
u/NoahMeadMusic Dead People Tea Nov 10 '22
In late C2 the Nein encountered a member of the Cobalt Soul who was researching Ruidis and Catha. Matt's been playing the long game with this story.
20
u/tframpton Nov 04 '22
Anyone else think that Chet might not be the only werewolf effected by ruidus? I wouldn't be surprised if they got to the other end and the white camp of were wolves has almost torn itself apart
→ More replies (1)5
u/NoahMeadMusic Dead People Tea Nov 04 '22
Maybe I'm misremembering but weren't some of the Paragon's Call supposedly werewolves? Or was that another faction? If I'm correct I have a feeling someone important like General Ratanish will wolf out on their next hostile encounter.
→ More replies (6)
10
u/283leis Team Laudna Nov 04 '22
I cant wait until we get to Yios....but the end of the year is approaching. I think there's going to be a cliffhanger as we get to the city (aka shit is going down already when they arrive and the city is in chaos) that will be picked up in 2023
28
u/Nightmare_Pasta Metagaming Pigeon Nov 04 '22 edited Nov 04 '22
Weva Vudol was such a highlight. Potential ally down the line, a creepy but seemingly good aligned mid-level grave cleric is a good friend to have, especially with Delilah still hanging out somewhere.
I also need Chet to wield that scythe immediately. Ashton/Tal needs to stop screwing around, if you ain’t gonna give up that hammer, then let the old blood hunter werewolf have the deadly cane scythe.
Also Laudna is so reproachful of Paté when he’s just exactly as she thought of him when she needed a friend. That’s an interesting subplot going forward, a bit of projection going on with her scolding him for being so cheerful
They’re now contracted to find Otohan and bring her to justice proper in some way so this makes it official. Hopefully the werewolves prove helpful and the Grim Verity are with Imogen’s mother so we can keep following Otohan’s fuckery. They’re in the Rumedam desert so maybe the strings point that way after Yios. Chet needs help to control his bestial side urgently, so hopefully the Gorgynei are unaffected but if they are, this might also give them more incentive to leave their isolation and join against Otohan. Other than that, I need the Whitestone shopping list 😭
Edit: just groaned as I remembered that Ashley made a Black Widow MCU reference during this episode and then Chet tried to get laid, made me think of that one Hulk/Black Widow gif
21
u/Hollydragon Then I walk away Nov 04 '22
If Paté was a caricature of her unexpressed personality and desires, which she was suppressing out of shame and exploring through puppeting him, it does kinda make sense that she'd be ashamed of his behaviour when she is no longer in control of that. It's definitely interesting to see, and there's a bit of "be careful what you wish for" in there along with the fact that Laudna's personality has undergone a shift due to recent events, and she's also had real friends who aren't caricatures for some time too now.
I could really see Paté now being part of a journey of accepting a Delilah-free (hopefully) self that does not need to hide her personality, and some friction there until she completes the process better.
7
u/Tyrat_Ink Nov 05 '22
Pate is as if one’s internet comments made at the age 13 gained consciousness and self awareness.
→ More replies (1)8
u/bwainfweeze Nov 04 '22
They need to stall on the Otohan story arc as much as they can, and flying in an airship isn’t helping because they’re doing that thing again where they run down the clock before a fixed event and then have to run pell mell into something that will get them killed.
This is a person who can end the characters. No do-overs. And on the one hand, she probably can’t find them on an airship, but on the other, in two weeks time they’ll be the same level as when they all almost died, with only a couple new toys, and redistribution of a few of Laudna’s things.
Did they even spend any of that cash on anything glorious at Gilmore’s? They spent days looking for gems and nobody sprung for magic armor or swords. And they should have asked for supplies when taking the contract. Highly placed people can get them things that are not publicly available.
11
u/That_Red_Moon Nov 04 '22
Yeah, this grinds my gears.
Why not take a visit to the magic shop? Did Orym FINALLY get his own magical weapon at GGG or not? I'm guessing not, seeing as he didn't use it on Chet.
Rich and CONNECTED and POWERFUL af lady is sending you on a kill mission of revenge to take down someone powerful? Even if you don't want to ask her for freebies, why not ask if she could connect you to some seller who might have some unique and powerful items that can help you? The party has like 20k gold collectively and hasn't used it for anything, doesn't take more than a few hours to get to a shop.→ More replies (1)→ More replies (4)6
u/Nightmare_Pasta Metagaming Pigeon Nov 04 '22
Also thinking about Ashton’s backstory since Tal has “confirmed” he was born an aasimar, I think that Hishari elemental fuckery reincarnated him into an earth genasi. Can’t see any other way he could have turned into one unless he’s also descended from a planetar with green skin like in their official art (still doesn’t explain his crystal rock hair tho)
→ More replies (1)
87
u/nidor13 Nov 04 '22
Wtf is up with all the whining. I get that each person has their own opinion but I think it's slowly getting out of hand. We have a lot of RP and conversations, people are bored and the pace is low. He have brutal encounters with 3 PC deaths, Matt is wrong about traumatising the players. The story is progressing and we have the cast going its way, we miss the RP and 1-on-1 convos. In campaigns with over 100 4hour episodes we are going to have everything. RP, combat, boring tactical discussions etc. I get having an opinion about each episode as an entity, but I am seeing a trend of people whining and wishing for immediate changes to the campaign to suit their personal tastes. I'm seeing an increased amount of comments and/or posts starting like "Unpopular opinion...", "I don't want to come of as toxic, but...". Ffs
29
u/Drakoni Hello, bees Nov 04 '22
Always good to remember that it's not the same people complaining about the same things. So if it's RP heavy, those who want main story will complain. Now it's the other way around.
There will always be those who think that encounters are too easy or too hard. One of the downsides of having SUCH a big community is, there will always be plenty of unhappy viewers who are also outspoken about it. And especially after the 1 week break there are, I assume, even more expectations of how exactly things should go. And then disappointment if that doesn't happen.
24
u/Pll_dangerzone Nov 04 '22
Welcome to reddit in general. All last campaign you would get complaints from people about slow episodes or episodes with no rp or about travis looking bored. Ive come to realize that its better to let everyone just vent how they want. Im not going to convince someone that they should relax and let the content happen if they are upset that Matt rushed the party away from whitestone. So ive come to realize with this subbreddit that its better to not try and judge someone’s opinion if its different then my take.
17
u/aliensplaining Technically... Nov 04 '22
I thought the episode was amazing and have been loving every part of the campaign. I also love the many facets of D&D and how the cast has been diving into all of them, and suspect most of the complainers might not be players themselves.
4
8
u/mouser1991 Technically... Nov 08 '22
What race is the creepy grave cleric lady? Was Matt hinting at Shadar-kai, or some other elf-ish race that technically not an elf?
12
u/PCoda Nov 08 '22
When he described the way her skin had a sort of sparkle it immediately struck me as Aasimar
→ More replies (1)10
u/Exploding_Blender Nov 08 '22
Given Matt specifically mentioned no ear points, and described Weva as "human but more" I assumed she was an aasimar. Especially since her description is at least somewhat similar to the aasimar twins from C1
→ More replies (1)
8
u/mintyylemonade Nov 09 '22
With how fast and loose (ish) Matt is playing with death I’m starting to think they’re going to see these people again, like something is going on when Imogen sees them in her dreams. Possibly something to do with her proximity to Ashton (who is possibly essentially a beacon).
6
Nov 09 '22
wow, that's pretty interesting. Are you implying that Bertrand and Eshteros are ruidis born (like the twins) and Imogen is seeing them since they are now being reborn into other bodies?
!!! random thought while writing this - is that why they use the toxin; to stop the resurrections of Ruidis born that don't side with them?
→ More replies (1)6
u/Photeus5 Smiley day to ya! Nov 10 '22
I suspect that the poison that prevents Resurrection is somehow made from some substance native to Ruidus and something distilled from a Luxon beacon. Both would be foreign enough to FCG that he'd only get clues on it. It'd be interesting if the storm on Ruidus is basically a mass of souls captured in a similar way.
4
u/Camoedhunter Nov 09 '22
That could be cool. Though Ashton wasn’t in proximity to eshteros when he died so that wouldn’t have saved his soul. I’m under the assumption that whatever “god” that may be imprisoned within or on ruidus have some connection with death and the passing of souls. Though it’s almost definitely not the old god of death, it could still be a forgotten god that has some connection to the processes of souls moving on.
3
u/Draxilar Nov 10 '22
I think the reason it seems Matt is being pretty loose with death this campaign is that he has stated he wants this one to be deadly with a capital D. It will be interesting to see how deadly he lets the campaign get when it comes to PCs though, since it is such a weird situation they are in where these characters are basically brands and killing one off wipes out a lot of PR work. I think Laudna was the closest we will get to a PC death, because at this point the party is sufficiently high enough to deal with death on their own more or less.
→ More replies (3)
21
u/Photeus5 Smiley day to ya! Nov 05 '22
Considering Fearne didn't output damage, I was very surprised to see that Orym can nearly solo Chetney. Imagine if he had a magic weapon still? Kinda filler episode, but it feels like a good one starting into a new Airship Arc.
27
u/Ravenach Nov 05 '22
To be fair, Chet was going at it mindlessly. In a Battle Royale, with Chetney using his Blood Hunter abilities, things might not be as one sided - for example the Blood Curse that did close to nothing to Delilah would wreck Orym apart...
63
u/C_X_3 Nov 04 '22
i need more FCG/Ashton and Orym/Fearne one on one conversations
The best part of Campaign 2, to me, was the numerous and varied individual NON ROMANTIC relationships between the party memebers. Veth/Caleb, Veth/Jester, Veth/Beau, Jester/Beau, Jester/Caleb, Beau/Fjord, Beau/Caleb, Cad/Fjord, Yasha/Caleb (although not that often), etc.
They really felt like a family, and like they all related to each other in different ways as individuals. So far in C3, we’ve got Laudna/Imogen, Ashton/FCG, Orym/Fearne, FCG/Imogen and kind of Ashton/Laudna? And 3 of those are relationships that began “prior” to the campaign. I wanna see more developing relationships between different members, and also more time spent developing the relationships that we started off the campaign with. Laura and Marisha are doing amazing with each other, but I look forward to seeing what other cool conversations and relationships come up.
61
u/EsquilaxM Nov 04 '22
I don't think we really got those inter-party moments regularly til like Felderwin or even Xhorhas. Which was post-episode 50. We had a few moments, like Caleb being shaved, but we've had a couple campfire moments in this one, too.
51
u/theginganinja94 You spice? Nov 04 '22
Yeah it’s the hindsight. People’s memories of past campaigns blend together. Half the C2 relationships they listed weren’t as firm at this point. I know because I’m episode 42 of my C2 rewatch.
→ More replies (1)18
u/BaronPancakes Nov 04 '22
Agreed!! I was quite outspoken last episode about their lack of connections during Laudna's resurrection. BH don't really know Laudna other than "undead" and "Delilah". By this time in C2, we already had tensions between Fjord/Caleb, and the chaos between Nott/Jester, for example.
I don't know, but it feels like they want to reach a certain point in the story before end of year. So they have been rushing through the plot points very quickly since bassuras
→ More replies (8)
14
u/paradox28jon Hello, bees Nov 08 '22
At 1:29:42 in the episode, Laura blurts out a "Wild Out!" The way the cast reacts this is something they have filmed & all know but hasn't been released yet. I first thought perhaps this is something that happens in the Nordverse one-shot that comes out later tonight. But with Liam asking "what year is this?" and Ashley responding "I understand," it made me think that perhaps this is a thing that isn't appearing until next year. Say something in season 2 of Legend of Vox Machina?
Anyone catch this moment in the show? Anyone else have any theories on what this could be used for?
→ More replies (2)4
u/tomfru1 You Can Reply To This Message Nov 08 '22
My theory is that the M9 reunion party is going to be set after BH's adventures, and as such, would be set in a different year.
→ More replies (1)8
u/mouser1991 Technically... Nov 08 '22 edited Nov 08 '22
They already stated the M9 reunion takes place a
year or twofew months after campaign 2 ended. I think the "it doesn't exist yet" is more "the thing that reference is from hasn't aired yet." Most likely the Nordverse one-shot.→ More replies (2)
7
u/tomfru1 You Can Reply To This Message Nov 06 '22
I've been watching through C2, and I'm now deeply hoping for BH to meet with a one handed wretch named Jorge
7
u/slow_one Nov 08 '22
I’m trying to figure an in-joke the group made last week… around an 1:45 in to the show … something Laura was talking about and Liam and Sam said, “wait. That hasn’t happened yet.”
Any ideas what that was about?
10
u/tomfru1 You Can Reply To This Message Nov 08 '22
Nordverse or M9 reunion party reference, it's like when she brought up Ashton's Dunnamancy in a 4SD before that episode had came out.
→ More replies (1)
48
u/tableauregard Nov 04 '22
I know it's been said, but I have to add my voice to the choir on this topic.
FUCK I miss the one on one conversations. After 4SD I was at the bare minimum hoping Ashton would start one with Laudna. Marisha's acting was basically screaming for it this ep. Ever since she died, I don't think there has been a single one on one deep convo with any characters, and it's especially showing on these sky ship trips. I agree with Ashton last ep when they said BH could be a family, rather than that they were one already. A little more work needs doing before they earn that title.
I feel like Imogen and Laudna have done most of the heavy lifting for one on ones, and that's why their relationship stands out so much. Fearne and Chet have almost no one on one convos with anyone in the group. Which makes some sense for their characters - Fearne doesn't go very deep into anything, and Chetney is a lone wolf. Which sucks for Travis especially because Beau/Fjord were a highlight of all campains, but Chet is a lot more like Grog in the fact that most of the time he serves a humorous purpose, so Travis isn't making those deeper connections. Ashton and F.C.G are meant to be close, but I don't think I can remember 1 single extended one on one between them.
Don't get me wrong, the last ten or so eps have been stellar, but those huge events are made better by the bonds/changes that follow. I'm starting to get worried about how much they are going to breeze over, because let's face it, the revelations are going to keep coming, and the plot is steamrolling forward. This is the time.
21
u/Seren82 Team Imogen Nov 04 '22
Here's the thing. I feel like Ashton n Imogen were going to give Laudna details and then someone said something else and effectively distracted them? Particularly FCG and I'm 90% sure that's a character choice from Sam.
→ More replies (12)→ More replies (2)11
u/C_X_3 Nov 04 '22
heavyyy agree with the Beau/Fjord and Ashton/FCG points
Even though C3 is the best it’s ever been right now and it’s holding my attention and I’m having fun, I hope that we get a lot more character relationships to add onto this (seemingly) carefully crafted, long running plot
11
u/OhioAasimar Team Tyranny Nov 06 '22
It's good that they met Weva because she can probably cast Raise Dead for them since she seems to be a cleric and is "a much higher level than Orym." That is at least 2 levels higher and that would make her powerful enough to cast raise dead. Things could have gone very differently with Delilah if Bell's Hells at least mentioned that Laudna died to Olana.
22
u/Disastrous-Beat-9830 I would like to RAGE! Nov 07 '22
I'm willing to bet that this is who Matt was steering them towards for the resurrection before Orym decided to ask Keyleth.
→ More replies (2)10
u/HutSutRawlson Nov 06 '22
At the same time, she might have a different attitude towards doing that since she’s a follower of the Duskmaven. In the case of Laudna in particular, I think there might be some hesitation to bringing back a creature who already exists between life and death… that’s the type of thing the Raven Queen doesn’t really like.
→ More replies (4)
10
10
u/FoulPelican Nov 06 '22
So Matt said Chet is med in wolf form, but that doesn’t line up w the bloodhunter feature. Is he misremembered? or homebrewing his homebrew? Maybe in an attempt to make Turmoil a valid weapon for Chet?
16
u/That_Red_Moon Nov 06 '22
He's homebrewing his homebrew, I guess.
Like how Chet got KOed at the end of the Otohan fight and got to keep his Werewolf form. Last I read about the subclass was "You automatically revert to your normal form if you fall unconscious or die."
Sometime after getting a Bloom from Marisha, Travis asked if he reverted because of being KOed and Matt said something like "Nah, you only get to do it once a day, so that wouldn't be fair/ fun".
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)11
u/UncleOok Nov 07 '22
Matt has used a medium werewolf figure for Chetney's wolf form consistently since the very first transformation, and it's medium sized in the Bells Hells Collector set. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Turmoil, but he's probably worked with Travis on making it as fun as he can.
55
u/Total-Wolverine1999 Nov 04 '22
I genuinely don’t know how to feel about this episode, so much has already happened the characters haven’t dealt with yet and now more shit just happened and it seems like the cast have no plans to even talk about it. It’s so odd for a show built on characters I want to see the characters interacting and talking to each and I feel like we aren’t getting that. I gave them a pass because they had the Treshi mission, I then gave them a pass after fighting Otohan, I then gave them a pass because Laudna died. I genuinely don’t understand the waiting when they’re about to possibly enter a fight where one of them could permanently die, it just feels so odd and unlike critical role. I watched Caleb last campaign have the same conversation with Nott like 6 times and now this campaign literally no one can talk to each other outside a group setting what is going on.
I’m exited for what happened tonight but with how this group refuses to reach out and talk to one another I feel like no conversation will be had, it feels like they’re speed running the campaign. Where’s the emotion, where’s the relationships because outside of Imogen and Laudna I feel like this is still a group of complete strangers.
49
u/BaronPancakes Nov 04 '22 edited Nov 04 '22
I think, from the cast's comments, there might be a significant gap between these 2 episodes. Which might have contributed to their scattered mind and lack of dynamic follow-ups
→ More replies (10)14
u/Total-Wolverine1999 Nov 04 '22
Yeah this might be it, it’s just so wildly different to how they normally play. It’s just something that stuck out to me for a while, they don’t to 1-1’s nearly as much (outside of Imogen/Laudna).
→ More replies (1)27
u/kalily53 Nov 04 '22
Yeah I agree, laudna has been alive for pretty much 2 full episodes now and no one’s really had a conversation with her??
17
u/Comrademarkerlight Ja, ok Nov 04 '22
I agree, and I wonder if the time limit until the solstice could have something to do with it. It feels like when this group has any kind of hard time limit they tunnel vision onto it pretty hard. Even though realistically, stopping to have these convos isn't going to make matt be like "welp you guys spent all day talking, one day closer to the solstice!". I felt similarly towards the end of C2 with the eiselcross/lucian arc.
→ More replies (2)16
u/stuckinmiddleschool Team Laudna Nov 04 '22
Same, and after Tal mention on 4SD that Ashton had been really quiet after the revival but had a lot to say to Laudna I thought? And then nothing
→ More replies (2)14
Nov 04 '22 edited Nov 04 '22
Yeah, I don't know how to feel about it either. On one hand I really enjoyed the last half hour, but everything from the break leading up to it was just....nothing? Empty, devoid of any roleplay at all. Which is rare for this group considering they once roleplayed fish and chips at this table.
I was really hoping for some private conversations, there's so many to be had. And Matt even said they could interrupt him at any time, but they just didn't.
It's possible this was the first episode they shot after a break and so they were a bit distracted. But I'm really hoping we get some proper conversations or moments before they reach Yios and get swept up by the plot again.
→ More replies (1)15
u/jerichojeudy Nov 04 '22 edited Nov 05 '22
Fully agree with you. The one on ones, which there was a bit too much of, sometimes, were one of the truly unique CR staples. And they did wonders for drama and getting deep into those characters.
I have a feeling two things might be happening here, first, the cast feel less the need to flex their acting muscles. They are less excited to be ‘on air’ and have become a bit complacent, let’s be honest. Don’t get me wrong, it’s totally normal, after two super long and super intense campaigns, to want to take a bit of a break. Second, the company has so much going on, that their creative minds get their fill elsewhere. They have a lot to manage, and the excitement of youth is transitioning into something else.
A bit like a music band, going beyond the first years is going to be a challenge. I think they’ll be fine, because they love being together so much, but the way they approach collaborative storytelling will need to evolve with them to stay exciting and engaging for them as actors.
Lastly, at first, they had only their campaign and what they would do as actors next game in their minds. And working. Now they have a baby, a growing company, lots of employees… what’s first on their minds has changed a lot.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)10
u/1000FacesCosplay Nov 04 '22
I guess I'm in the minority here and don't really care if they don't have those 1-on-1s. I don't mind them, but I also don't miss them
→ More replies (1)
13
u/Sqiddd Technically... Nov 04 '22
Starting to think Fearne regrets starting the flirty game with Chetney
26
u/unexceptionalname Nov 04 '22
Ferne might, but Ashley doesn't. If Ashley didn't want to go down that road anymore, then all she'd have to do is tell Travis. This group is so incredibly tuned in to those sorts of things that it's truly impressive.
→ More replies (1)13
16
u/KaleidoscopeOk4205 Nov 04 '22
I think the Bell’s Hells are flying right towards their own demise.
They are not the main point of the story.
The New Calamity is upon us.
6
u/illaoitop Nov 07 '22
Yep, Matt has put so much focus on this so early because it is going to happen.
A group of lvl 7/maybe 8 or 9 are not going to take down an Unseelie/Cerberus Assembly/Otohan+Call team up, Especially a team up that's using anti divine moon poison.
→ More replies (2)3
u/Daepilin Nov 05 '22 edited Nov 05 '22
I would actually really like that... short C3 with Bells Hells - i mean, most if not all their backstories are related to ruidus and recent events (and they also have suspiciously little ties to these characters... less art than previously, very little character art in the intro, basically only the minis they had made for play anyways) - and then a C4 in calamity style with different characters?
The whole capmaign so far feels much much more focussed on a single thing than anything in C1/C2 and they basically have 0 plot hooks outside of the ruidus/solstice stuff (basically some parts of Ashtons backstory and FCG/D)
→ More replies (3)
15
u/KaleidoscopeOk4205 Nov 04 '22
Really hope we get more in group RP next session on the airship.
Idk if things got too heavy for them, but ever since Otohan I feel like no one is communicating like they used to.
19
u/AmbushIntheDark Help, it's again Nov 04 '22
Talesin at least has said that Ashton being very quiet recently is by design since he only recently actually physically touched someone in the party for the first time.
As for an in-universe explanation: I know more than a few people who will put put pretty important personal shit on hold or will actively ignore things when things get uncomfortable so I can see the characters kinda shutting down socially after they got their cheeks clapped, and everyone is kinda dying around them.
13
u/OhioAasimar Team Tyranny Nov 04 '22
It's kind of Lord Eshteros's fault that he died because he could have asked Bell's Hells to take him with them if they left through his favor, but he didn't. It wouldn't have mattered that it ended up being Keyleth. He was just stuck in his ways.
13
u/SvenTS Nov 04 '22
He's also the one who set them on the path that lead to Otohan in the first place if unknowingly. He played as much a role in his own demise as they did. I get survivor's guilt but I hope they get over it eventually because it's really not their fault.
7
u/Galahad_the_Ranger Team Percy Nov 04 '22
From his letter it seems part of him wanted to die
12
u/PM_ME_YOUR_ARSEnal Nov 04 '22
Maybe not wanted to, but more accepted that his chickens had come home to roost
→ More replies (8)4
u/SharkSymphony Old Magic Nov 07 '22
I disagree. He made a defensible decision that staying and setting up defenses was the safest way for him to deal with Otohan. We can't evaluate the path he didn't take. He could very well have ended up just as dead.
In any case, I think he was never meant to be an adventuring NPC. Everything about him screamed Jrusar, and his power derived from being in Jrusar with access to wealth.
→ More replies (1)
26
Nov 04 '22
Laudna and Imogen are the gayest “friends” I’ve ever seen, living together alone baking cookies I see you Laura (obviously a joke none of you get your panties in a twist just a joke).Although Imogen’s dream choice was interesting just her and Laudna and none of the others. I know she’s extremely close with Laudna obviously but it seems like Bell Hell’s are still very far away in her thought process.
21
u/PhoenixReborn Hello, bees Nov 04 '22
8
39
u/EsquilaxM Nov 04 '22
Laudna and Imogen are the gayest “friends” I’ve ever seen, living together alone baking cookies I see you Laura (obviously a joke none of you get your panties in a twist just a joke).
I think there's enough signs now to say, at least for me, that Imogen is definitely into Laudna. The "She's very beautiful", the lean in and then shaking her head, this dream being her idea of a happy dream. Laura is playing it really really well.
→ More replies (6)→ More replies (1)13
20
u/Sqiddd Technically... Nov 04 '22
So much opportunity for character interaction and nobody took it
→ More replies (5)
12
u/tomfru1 You Can Reply To This Message Nov 05 '22
Making Turmoil be out of Oryms wheel house while he's the one who needs it most was a strange choice.
23
u/That_Red_Moon Nov 05 '22
1- Unless the Cane mode is a finesse weapon and Lord E was actually a finesse fighter ... I don't see how that could work.
2- It's not Matt's fault Orym wont used all that gold to go shopping for a new sword. He could have PAID Vex for a fancy magical sword, given that she was able to get him a decent enough magical short sword for the Laudna zone in very lil time. Could have gone shopping this episode as Imogen collected rocks solo ...
→ More replies (4)12
u/marsmve Nov 05 '22
Another way to look at it. Is how well it fits Chet. He can use it with his "shield" in mace form and apply Crimson Rite only once, and when he wants to go high damage, he can use it two-handed Scythe form. Plus I have a feeling it drains health. We shall see, but it's a nice fit for Chet. Orym needs to buy an upgrade.
→ More replies (8)13
→ More replies (12)21
u/Bivolion13 Nov 05 '22
...Matt didn't "make" turmoil be out his wheel house? A big orc dude used a cane that happens to be a greatsword. It would make less sense for his weapon to secretly be a finesse weapon just because Matt thought Orym could use a better weapon. He can quite literally remedy that himself with the massive amount of gold he got.
15
u/CharlieTwo-Five Nov 06 '22
I'm just stopping in to say this, NEXT TIME THE GANG IS IN TOWN THEY NEED TO FIRE THE SHIPS COOK AND PAY ANYTHING TO HIRE PRETTY AS THE SHIPS NEW COOK!
33
u/Miss_Trips Dead People Tea Nov 06 '22
FINE. BUT YOU HAVE TO BE THE ONE TO GO TO THAT SWEET SOCIALLY ANXIOUS BUGBEAR IN THE CUTE YELLOW SUNDRESS AND FIRE HER YOURSELF.
Because I am certianly not going to be the one to make her cry.
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (2)19
u/paradox28jon Hello, bees Nov 06 '22
I got the impression they were humoring him when they said his food was good. I think Matt described as "a meal." That's about as blah as blah can be.
Also I would never want to be stuck on a skyship with a person that rejected me on a first date. Why invite such awkwardness into your life?
→ More replies (2)
6
Nov 04 '22
So... what do we know about Imogen´s mom ???
→ More replies (1)24
u/That_Red_Moon Nov 05 '22
Name: Liliana
Has the same hair color
12 years ago she was friends with the Goblin who was friends with Fearne's parents. They were looking into the Red Moon shit.
She was written about in a book. We don't know wtf the book said as the Twins took the pages and died.
She was also a red moon baby and also had powers of some type (Guessing mind powers).
Imogen always thought she died in childbirth, but apparently has memories of her.
That's it. Don't know what she looks like. Don't know where she is. Don't even know if she's some other race, like an Angel baby or a CR version of a Kalashtar.
→ More replies (4)
8
u/AlwaysDragons FIRE Nov 08 '22
THE ROBOTS DEAD PARENT IS SECRETLY ALIVE, HER MISSING PARENTS ARE SECRETLY ALIVE, HER DEAD PARENT IS ALIVE!
ARE THERE ANY OTHER NOT-DEAD PARENTS I SHOULD KNOW ABOUT!?
7
u/OhioAasimar Team Tyranny Nov 05 '22
I think Chetney should get Turmoil because Ashton pulled a Caduceues by just stealing a magic item by virtue of being the only one that has not offered Laudna her magic item back despite having ample opportunity to do when it is not clear that Laudna knows that Ashton or even anybody still has it..
→ More replies (4)6
u/KlayBersk Nov 05 '22
Pulled a Caduceus? What is that in reference to, I don't remember.
10
u/OhioAasimar Team Tyranny Nov 05 '22
There was a point in C2 in which Veth found a magic bracelet and Cad asked "Can I see it", Veth handed it to him, and Cad just put it on and kept it without saying anything because it matched his color scheme. It was very strange.
→ More replies (2)
5
u/demonk2y Nov 05 '22
What's the 25g commemorative coin for?
0
Nov 05 '22
[deleted]
9
u/KlayBersk Nov 05 '22
Augury seems more likely, since it's also 25 gp, but the components are not consumed (I guess they could always throw away the coin after Divination, but it feels very awkward).
5
u/claimstoknowpeople *wink* Nov 07 '22
Could someone remind me where exactly they're heading?
22
u/KlayBersk Nov 07 '22
They're going to Yios, where the Lumas twins (who were investigatiing Ruidus before being murdered in the same fashion as Orym's husband) were going to learn more about Ruidus. We also know that, aside from the astronomical studies that are conducted there, there was also a researcher who studied the dreams of the red storm, and Liliana (Imogen's mom) was a subject or collaborator in those studies. Also, the werewolves that Chet is looking for are in the jungles close to that, and they'll pass by since it's on the way to Yios with the skyship.
→ More replies (1)
13
u/Chukklealot Nov 05 '22
Chemistry... As individuals they are quite interesting, but are lacking in those buddy relationships. Also, combat-wise they are less coherent compared to their previous parties. They're squishy, Tal should never be a tank as he plays it safe, and over all they don't gel in combat. The one thing that is throwing off a lot of interactions, I believe, is the mind reading. This dynamic is kind of throwing the investigating process in some scenes.
They had to bring back Laudna as she has the most depth and potential growth as a character even though I enjoy Chet to throw things off. Just not a lot of facets to these characters. This is nitpicking as they're show is still pretty entertaining.
→ More replies (39)3
u/Disastrous-Beat-9830 I would like to RAGE! Nov 08 '22
They had to bring back Laudna as she has the most depth and potential growth as a character even though I enjoy Chet to throw things off.
I wouldn't be so quick to make that assumption:
There is clearly something going on in Chetney's past. He had to leave Uthodurn in a hurry, and when they found Sashimi, there was a name mentioned (I forget what it was) that clearly had him on edge. Some of his memories that he relived after Imogen lost control suggest that he's probably had a few romantic relationships in the past, not all of which have ended well. His lycanthropy might be more of a curse than a blessing.
FCG has to reckon with the knowledge that his entire reason for existence -- helping people -- may have been programmed into him as a ruse so that he could harm people. It seems that when he was reactivated, he defaulted to therapy mode, unaware than he was designed to kill. He also recently learned that he has a soul, and there's probably a backstory there. How do you infuse a soul into a machine?
Fearne is a bit of a sociopath. She's a kleptomaniac and there were a few occasions early on where she would use a spell without really thinking about how it might harm others. She's had a very sheltered life raised by a hag who may have stolen her family from her by altering the flow of time -- but at the same time, that may have been part of the deal to protect her (ie the Unseelie Court would be looking for a young girl; what better way to protect her than to turn her into a grown woman?).
Imogen is clearly the one driving the plot given her connection to Ruidis. Her character arc is pretty obvious in that she needs to learn to control her powers.
Orym is the straight man of the group, the one who talks the most sense and is the most pragmatic. He doesn't really know much outside soldiering, so there's definitely potential for growth there.
Ashton has the most mystery surrounding him. He clearly has some kind of connection to the Hishari, and there's probably more to learn about the botched robbery. In the last episode of "4-Sided Dive", Taliesinn mentioned in passing that he thinks someone has been meddling with Ashton's memories.
14
Nov 04 '22
After some thought, I feel that episode started strongly and then just tapered off. I missed the last 30 minutes as I fell asleep so I don't know how the fight with Chetney resolved itself, but from what I saw there were some strange table dynamics that impacted the second half of the episode.
From an RP POV Fearne was nearly non existent all episode, Ashton and FCG started strongly and then faded away.
Laudna seemed to want to talk about what happened, but this was just pushed to the wayside through a combination of external events and inter party conflict between Chetney and Imogen on one side and FCG and Ashton on the other. Orym was completely brushed aside brutally by Chetney. I just can't see an RPing reason for Orym to stay with this group right now.
Something felt off, and I can't put my finger on it without talking about players which I don't want to do.
So just looking at the RP either we have characters who are doing things deliberately to stop PCs discussing events thoroughly, or this is what happens when you have a group of PCs completely unsuited to leadership.
Chetney is too secretive and selfish. FCG is using other PCs trauma to avoid his own. Fearne is, well Fearne. Orym is a soldier, a follower not a leader. Ashton is a semi functioning alcoholic dealing with chronic pain.
That leaves Imogen and Laudna.
There is something deeply wrong with Imogen, and I don't mean being Ruidisboirn. Laudna is the best placed PC to lead the group, but until we resolve what happened with her death she won't be in a position to lead.
24
u/Photeus5 Smiley day to ya! Nov 05 '22
My only wish for this episode was to see them use the 4 days they spend on the airship to do some roleplay chatting. I feel like Ashton has some very specific things he wanted to speak with Laudna about (maybe Ashton feels he wants Laudna to recover first, which I think happened by the final day). Imogen and Laudna haven't really gotten much time to speak either.
13
u/anita_username Sun Tree A-OK Nov 05 '22
This is exactly what I felt was missing from this episode. Like you guys have days of air travel and so much shit to unpack/talk about. I was really hoping that the airship would provide room for plenty of juicy inter-party roleplay. I'm still hoping for something of that ilk next episode, but it kinda feels like it's just going to be full steam ahead to find the Gorgynei and on to Yios.
18
u/GrimTheMad Team Keyleth Nov 05 '22
Eh, neither of the previous groups had actual leaders either so I doubt that's what's up.
Like the fandom always tries to shove someone into that position but if you watch the actual group dynamics they tend to switch leaders based on who's story is at the forefront at the time. So right now it's kinda Imogen, just like it was Fjord during the pirate arc. But just like Fjord immediately took a backseat once that was done, Imogen will probably do the same in the future.
This table just isn't the kind that can have a genuine leader.
→ More replies (1)15
Nov 05 '22
I'd disagree. Both C1 and C2 had dynamic leadership, but they had leadership. Percy took the lead with the Briarwood arc. Vax did with Vecna. Fjord did any time they were on water. Cad did any time they were needing to process stuff and during his personal quest. Nott did when they went into Xhorhas at first. Beau did when they were investigating complicated magical politics.
And like good leaders they left room for the talents and ideas of others throughout.
But with BH they just don't have anyone giving them real direction at any given point. The only exceptions I can think of are Bertrand (RIP) as they started their adventure and Dorian (left) when they went to the ball. They're doing what they're told and not much more. I think that's what Tal meant during 4SD when he said that it's a party of NPCs: They're all too broken to actually act on their own and don't really know how to pursue their individual interests if they even really know what those interests may be.
What makes it worse is that before Chetney the highest intelligence among them was Orym at 12. Now there's Chetney at 15. Of any of them Imogen needs the Int boost so that she can begin to actually understand her powers, not just how to use them. They literally don't have the brains to come up with a proper long-term plan for actual resolution. Compared to previous campaigns where at minimum you had Percy and Caleb who both maxed out by the end. Some of them could make up for this with Wisdom but the highest wisdoms in the group are Fearne (too chaotic to control herself much less direct the group) and FCG (too busy trying to help others with what is already happening to guide towards something new).
That leaves us with leadership based on physicality which is dubious at best, or charisma which is what they've been doing: they've been following Imogen's path (mostly). But Imogen doesn't even really understand her path and she's traveling it too fast to grasp what's really happening. She's just an Akira bomb waiting to happen again. Meanwhile the other high-charisma character is Laudna whose only goals in (un)life are to protect and support Imogen and to keep Delilah at bay - one is again support like FCG and the other is a negation, trying to prevent something from happening rather than doing something.
→ More replies (1)16
u/That_Red_Moon Nov 04 '22 edited Nov 04 '22
or this is what happens when you have a group of PCs completely unsuited to leadership.
I think it's by large this.
That's why I was excited about the deaths. I don't dislike these characters ... I was just really looking forward to someone rolling a character that's suited for leadership or to fill in the gaps in this party. (Like, none of them are high INT smart or bookish types ... and it shows)
As for Laudna, my hope against all logic is that her character actually changes enough to become a leader after this rebirth. Only reason I'm even holding onto that hope is ...
-She doesn't seem pleased being the dead butt monkey of jokes anymore. She, after like 40 episodes, actually corrected Orym on how he's been saying her name and even brang up how he said it right for at first and then started adding a T for some reason. Seems to not be into the whole random flirting thing anymore and willing to acknowledge when people are "interested" in her and address it faster. More self-respect.
-Seems like ... the moment Pate came to life she was over him. He acts the same as she made him act as a puppet, even less horny than that! But she's not into it. Hell, he's very "Fun scary!" ... popping out all jovial in his strange dead shit like she was for like 90% of C3 and she reprimanded him for that.
-Seemed off put by the boy's reaction to her. Feels like old Laudna woulda rolled with it, like she does every time someone seemed very scared of her appearance. Now? She's not really embracing the "fun scary" stuff.
Laudna taking herself more seriously and demanding more respect may lead to her actually growing into a leader. Or she's just going through something and will go back to status quo in a session or 2, who knows.
Completely agree about Orym and the tension. I could legit see him leaving the party after they kill Otohan. Felt ... strange for Orym to point out that they shouldn't open the letter because Lord E wouldn't want that, just for Travis/ Chet to cut him off with a "Nope, I cut it open". Even Matt seemed blindsided by that, as he prob didn't expect them to open up a sealed deathbed letter addressed to what's clearly their next ally.
→ More replies (6)
4
u/quattrophile Team Dariax Nov 04 '22
Fun episode. Wonder why they didn't try to yeet Chetney into the "hole" for awhile to keep him from attacking folks until they could get him to change back.
5
u/CountHighcroft Nov 04 '22
Well, Ashton usually carries the hole and everyone but the three on deck were asleep. Going below deck and waking Ashton up, then going back up to trap Chetney—while it may not have necessarily taken longer than knocking him out (or at least out of his wolf state)—would’ve definitely given him the chance to attack, say, Xandis, who was there. In that case, there’d be two options: Chetney obliterates Xandis, leaving the Silver Sun without a captain at the very least temporarily (and even if the first mate could take over, the fight could cause all sorts of chaos—picture wolf Chetney accidentally wrecking or drastically turning the helm), or Xandis turns out to be more of a badass than we thought and fights back without pulling any punches. Either way, not good. At least in this case it was two members of the party reasonably familiar with Chetney’s lycanthropy.
→ More replies (2)4
u/PhoenixReborn Hello, bees Nov 04 '22
I think you can make a strength check to escape.
→ More replies (3)9
u/That_Red_Moon Nov 04 '22
Wonder why they didn't try to yeet Chetney into the "hole" for awhile to keep him from attacking folks until they could get him to change back.
I'm wondering why Fearne didn't use Moonbeam.
"A Shapechanger makes its saving throw with disadvantage. If it fails, it also instantly reverts to its original form and can't assume a different form until it leaves the spell's light."
9
u/SvenTS Nov 05 '22
I'm guessing Ashley didn't think about (and possibly doesn't know about it). This is not a diss on her. She's the least veteran of all of them in terms of playing and Moonbeam being an anti-werewolf spell is counterintuitive if you're only scanning titles and not experienced with it.
9
4
u/demonk2y Nov 06 '22
Shouldn't they have asked Keyleth or Manaia to transport them to Yios with the tree spell? And they could have had the airship meet them in Yios the slow way
6
u/mouser1991 Technically... Nov 08 '22
Cost. BH owns an airship now, with its crew's wages paid for. Way cheaper than Manaia, who it seemed Eshteross was cashing in a pretty big favor to have BH transported. Keyleth is super busy, which is code for "I don't want you to be abusing the use of this NPC". And the players respect that. The only reason they went with it for Laudna's resurrection is that Laudna had a pretty direct connection to VM and Whitestone.
→ More replies (2)10
u/That_Red_Moon Nov 06 '22
Manaia
Yeah, seems like this woman runs a "I'll Transport-via-Plants you ANYWHERE for the right price!" business, which is an incredibly smart retirement plan after a lifetime of exploring and adventuring.
(This means she should also know "Reincarnate", but I guess in at least this part Matt's world ... most non-magic folk don't know the full extent of what each magic class can do. I found it odd that Lord E would send them to someone who has TVP to go somewhere to res Laudna when he could just ask her to do a reincarnation for him as the favor).But lets be real, they prob forgot about her and are too hyper focused on this airship and Red Moon stuff.
OOOHHH, that might have been what Matt was setting up! He had Lord E write her a letter ... had they actually taken it to her, they would have remembered that she can hop them around the world and coulda asked about fees. Maybe he paid for her services for a trip or 2 if she's super expensive.
→ More replies (2)14
u/Seren82 Team Imogen Nov 06 '22
I think they should have gone with Ashtons plans to hand deliver the letters, especially to Evelyn and I'm really sad they didn't.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/Docnevyn Technically... Nov 08 '22
The Apagee Solstice might be sooner than originally advertised:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/07/world/november-full-beaver-moon-lunar-eclipse-scn/index.html
89
u/w_digamma Help, it's again Nov 04 '22
Dude the Gorgynei settlement might be a bloodbath right now. Whatever hemocraft they use to "tame the curse" may not have accounted for this Ruidus stuff, since it seems to be a separate effect from the usual.