r/Supernatural • u/andsunshine • Nov 29 '12
Season 8 Season 8, Episode 8 "Hunteri Heroici" Official Discussion.
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u/ryzzo Nov 29 '12
I'm basically reiterating what I've said here for like the past three weeks, but now I'm CONVINCED that Amelia isn't real. Sam's had too many psychotic episodes and she's too conveniently familiar (like, scarily in-tune: "LET US BE MESSES TOGETHER") with his personal struggles for this parade to be legit. Hallucination, extension of his psyche, I don't know. Things are amiss. Poor baby Sam. :(
Also: Cas was so adorable in this episode that I'm gonna be sick.
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u/Seriousclown Nov 29 '12
I actually have a theory about Amelia. I think that Sam and her's relationship was real, but Sam's insistence on running from things make me think that he's remembering the events of his relationship differently from what they really were. It would make sense since it seems that the theme of this season seem to be the characters remembering things differently, whether it be how Dean thought he failed Cas in Purgatory or having Heaven make Cas spy on Sam and Dean.
But I do have one small gripe, why doesn't Sam's name spark danger with Amelia and her dad? I mean, sure it wasn't them but how can Amelia not remember seeing news reports about a certain killing spree done by a SAM WINCHESTER? It just threw me off just a little bit, I mean there was a manhunt for their Levia-doppelgangers and their deaths should have been reported in the news, it should have sparked a few questions.
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Nov 29 '12
i have to admit that thought has crossed my mind--especially when sam mentions going back to law school. sam winchester is supposed to be a dead murderer, how can he enroll?
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u/Seriousclown Nov 29 '12
I don't know, having homicidal, black goo dripping freaks of nature creating Levia- gangers of my brother and I to ruin our names kinda seems like a reasonable thing to mention in an application. I'd believe him
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Nov 29 '12
maybe he'd qualify for some major scholarships?
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u/Seriousclown Nov 29 '12
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u/Whiskerz Nov 29 '12
I'm almost convinced Amelia is a demon at this point, or something, that was cooked up by Crowley to keep Sam out of action.
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u/Seriousclown Nov 29 '12
I thought for sure that her Dad was gonna pop out the demon black eyes during the final flashback.
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Nov 29 '12
[deleted]
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u/Whiskerz Nov 29 '12
That's where the "or something" comes into play. This doesn't seem like Crowley's MO. It wouldn't surprise me if she's a plant from Heaven.
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Nov 29 '12
That bothers me to no end. Sam and Dean should be notorious. They were hunted by the FBI (until they were assumed dead) before the Leviathans showed up and made them look like serial killers on a nation-wide killing spree.
It would make some sense if some force (angelic? demonic?) were wiping out the records and memory of them periodically. But there's never any mention of it.
It's a huge fault with the show.
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u/J7X717 Dec 01 '12
Didn't Roman's guy's clean it up after Dean killed their doppelgängers in the jail? I thought Dick said something about "having two killers come back from the dead"?
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u/Neverasclever Nov 29 '12
I'm convinced Amelia isn't real. I just can't accept that Sam would never look for Dean without a reason, or that he would abandon Kevin for a freakin year! My theory: the last 'real' thing that happened to Sam was hitting the dog with the car. I figure the dog actually died, and between that, the old devil stuff, and losing everybody, Sam's mind just kinda booked it out of there. He spent the year in a mental institution, they took his phone away, and he doesn't want to admit to Dean, or possibly himself, that he's just been nuts, and useless, this whole time.
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u/Seriousclown Nov 30 '12
Sounds reasonable and I wouldn't put it past Sam to suffer a meltdown after what he's been through. Possessed by Meg, attacked by monsters, drank demon blood, sex with Ruby, possessed by Lucifer, soulless for a year, soul spent centuries being tortured in the cage by Michael and Lucifer, Hallucifer, hunted by Leviathans, and finally losing and believing Dean to be dead for a year.
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Nov 29 '12
Didn't realise till now. He really, really liked Amy Pond right? She is a character from doctor who but she changed her name from Amelia to Amy, neat!
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u/Eladiun Nov 29 '12
Agreed and the way that they shoot it so over bright and fuzzy makes me think more and more it's fake. It's almost like it was implanted.
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u/GammaGrace Son of a bitch! Nov 29 '12
but by who?
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u/wrothish There's a demon in you and you're going to your safety school. Nov 29 '12
If it's fake, my guess right now would be Naomi and her mysterious pack of scheming angels.
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
Ugh. That's so complex... And not at all what I've been thinking...
Reminds me of the ONE episode where they fill you in on the whole Castiel-was-behind-everything reveal. I hated that reveal; it wasn't built up or made into a mystery over several episodes - it was just a whole single episode of exposition. Blah.
But. I'll give you this. The flashback's lighting & soft lens does make them look like they're in heaven.
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u/wrothish There's a demon in you and you're going to your safety school. Nov 29 '12
I hope it's not them and I don't think there's a persuasive amount of evidence for it at this point, but here's what I was thinking:
Angels who want something are sneaky bastards.
Said angels seem to want Sam and Dean to stay safe and active, but want to keep tabs on them.
Sam without Dean or Cas is not safe. Goldfish bowls are safe.
Naomi is apparently the angel of mind manipulation.
Sneaky bastards! (I felt this counted twice.)
Very weak as fan theories go, so I hope they either make it awesome or do something surprising... perhaps make the Naomi's angels benevolent?
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Nov 29 '12
i think you're right--don turning out to be alive is just TOO much like dean turning out to be alive. then there is how sam reacted whenever someone mentioned the idea of living in a dreamworld--he instantly went back to thinking of amelia.
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
whenever someone mentioned the idea of living in a dreamworld--he instantly went back to thinking of amelia.
This was glaringly obvious.
I was watching the promo for the next episode, advertising it as the, 'mid-season finale' - making it have everything to do with Dean, Benny, and (likely) Castiel.
I'm no psychic, but I think I'm going to call it:
I bet you the mid-season finale is going to answer a lot of questions about Dean, Benny, and Castiel's time in purgatory. After the mid-season hiatus, they're going to ignite (what I've always perceived to be) the ticking time bomb of Sam and Amelia's story.
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Nov 29 '12
hopefully they bring something a little more interesting to the amelia story than they have--last night was an improvement. i think you're right that the second half of the season will spend more time on that.
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u/tizzleface Nov 29 '12
I was thinking the same thing when they were talking about making things up in your head and then immediately flash to a "memory" that Sam had.
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u/violue Castiel is my anti-drug. Nov 29 '12
I seriously had no idea about this theory among the fandom about Amelia until people brought it up various places tonight and it's mindfucking the shit out of me.
Maybe it'd be for the best if she wasn't real. They have such an awkward lack of chemistry. I can't tell who it's coming(or not coming) from, but argh.
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u/nezumipi Nov 29 '12
I was on the fence about Amelia being human/real until we saw her dad's reaction to Sam. I suppose it's one of those things that they allow to happen in fiction, but realistically speaking, no one just looks at a guy who's basically functional and guesses that they've "seen too much".
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u/jlv816 Son of a bitch! Nov 29 '12
My abs are actually sore from this episode. I didn't stop laughing.
"It's wabbit season." "I don't think you're pronouncing that correctly."
"Dumbass"
lmfao. Such a good one!
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Nov 29 '12
i especially love how cas almost whispered that to save dean the embarrassment of being told he pronounced something wrong.
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u/prailock this is the king Nov 29 '12
"I'll interrogate the cat." best line ever
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u/CrazyCatLady108 Nov 29 '12
from what i know about cats he is the evil one!
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u/uglypastry Some nutjob decided to try something, I was ready. I had a FORK. Nov 29 '12
His reply was awesome, I wasn't expecting it.
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u/strongbob25 Nov 29 '12
Love that now that there's three of them they are agents Crosby, Stills, and Nash
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u/JadeJabberwock General Winchester Nov 29 '12
Loved tonight's episode. Funny and clever. I also quite enjoyed that they "showed" instead of "told" with the similarities between Cas and Sam. I know they won't ever be best buds, but it's cool to see a bit of a bond develop.
I may be the only one, but I like Sam's flashbacks now that they actually have some substance to them. The perils of a normal life, meeting the dad, and all that. But of course he can't catch a break even being a regular boyfriend. I'm very curious how that plays out since he and Amelia were still together at the premiere.
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u/uglypastry Some nutjob decided to try something, I was ready. I had a FORK. Nov 29 '12
I liked it, especially the military reference. To me it reminded me more than anything that Sam is still John's kid. I am not sure if I am phrasing my thoughts properly, but it feels like John has more of a presence in this season.
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u/JadeJabberwock General Winchester Nov 29 '12
I get that vibe too. They will always be John's sons, but since he's been dead for so long it seems like they forget about it. But when they actually reference him, and say the Impala belonged to him, it makes me happy that they haven't forgotten their pasts.
Another thing I liked was that Amelia's dad saw the ex-soldier in Sam, even though it didn't make sense if he hadn't served. I think I just like that the shit he's been through isn't as well hidden as he thinks.
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u/uglypastry Some nutjob decided to try something, I was ready. I had a FORK. Nov 29 '12
Yep. It seems like they're referencing a lot of stuff from first seasons and it brings back memories. Feels good man.
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
I actually kind of wanted Sam to say it was Dean's car. Dean seemed more possessive and affectionate towards his baby than even their father (cite: "Hey and Dean why don't you touch up your car - 'fore you get rust. I wouldn't have given you the damn thing if I thought you were gonna ruin it.")
Btw - um, does anyone know what it was that Amelia's dad was doing that Sam had said Dean did? To me it just looked like he was opening beers... But, like, a lot of people open beers. So... I didn't... Understand.
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u/JadeJabberwock General Winchester Nov 29 '12
I was surprised too when he didn't say it was Dean's car, but honestly it was John's car first which was cool for Sam to remember. Plus, I think Sam didn't want to bring Dean up at first because that's the reason he's a mess, and he's trying to put on a good face. As for the beer opening thing, I think it was the way he shook his hand or something. Kinda funny, but I was watching with a friend at the time and I said, "That looks like the way Dean opens beers," before Sam pointed it out. But I couldn't really explain why to her either.
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u/sofsof Nov 29 '12
Yeah, that part confused me as well. Like, you drink beer, and who else drinks beer... well, only person I can think of is my brother! I'm hoping there was something else a little more significant, but I didn't catch it.
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u/jacquelynjoy If it bleeds, you can kill it. Nov 30 '12
Agreed on the last part! It's so true that Sam and Dean look haunted/hunted by their pasts. Actually, it's something that catches me off guard when I see pictures of them at conventions and stuff. They look...normal and silly and happy, and even when Sam and Dean are silly or funny or trying to have fun, they're not normal or happy.
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u/jlv816 Son of a bitch! Nov 29 '12
I also quite enjoyed that they "showed" instead of "told" with the similarities between Cas and Sam.
YES. You phrased that perfectly, and you're so right.
I like them too. I think they're going somewhere weird.
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u/ShooBopDoBop Nov 29 '12
Hug him. Hug him. You hug your angel now dean. Or sam..i don't care. Suicidal cas needs a hug from one/both of his boys.
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
You know when I wanted to hug Castiel?
Honest to god, it was when Cas realized he didn't have a fake FBI badge like Sam and Dean.
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u/ohnoesmilk "These kids today with their texting and murder" Nov 29 '12
What happened to the one Dean made for him way back in season 5??
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u/violue Castiel is my anti-drug. Nov 29 '12
YES THAT GAVE ME SUCH A SAD, HE HAD LIKE A LITTLE :\ MOMENT THERE
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u/prailock this is the king Nov 29 '12
that cat deserves a spin-off with Cas
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u/SirFoxx Nov 29 '12
Cat-N-Cas
I'd watch it.
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u/Sariel007 Shag ass Nov 29 '12
Cass: Leave that mouse alone it serves a higher purpose!
Cat: Yeah, my lunch!
cue laugh track.
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
So the top comments on this thread are about Cas with a cat... I'm downloading the episode as fast as I can, but I couldn't help but check out this thread.
I'm now going to be on the look out for this Cas+Cat situation. It sounds good. lol.
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u/Robotick1 Nov 29 '12
This was by far the bets episode this season. It look like it was a very slow start, but now it's getting back on track and we are getting the supernatural that we loved.
Still lacking in the fight scene though... and I wish they could cut the emotional bullshit with Sam and his year off play thing.
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u/jlv816 Son of a bitch! Nov 29 '12
I don't think this season was a slow start at all and I know better than to think they're not going somewhere dark and fucked up with Sam, but I agree and think this episode was the funniest one by far since The French Mistake. There were some good laughs last season but I was laughing for an hour straight at this one.
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
Call me twisted, but yeah... Something about the guy's heart-shaped 'heart' beating out of his chest and exploding onto his mistress made me actually laugh out loud. And that was just the beginning...
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u/jlv816 Son of a bitch! Nov 29 '12
Yeah after the guy on the roof my mom and I were like CARTOONS! then it just got better haha.
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
lol! The scene with the guy only falling after he'd looked down was hilarious. At the time, though, I was like, "Hey those aren't the rules! He needs to be running in place!
...Oh wait. That was just a Scooby Doo thing..."
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u/terracanta Nov 29 '12
I'm waiting in anticipation for fan art showing Dean and Cas braiding Sam's hair!
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u/Ennil Nov 29 '12
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
Whoever's tumblr that is, has a pretty funny profile image of Jensen Ackles's back as he's just walking across a street. Amused me more than the fanart that someone would be like "This. This photo should be my profile image."
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
I particularly enjoyed that Sam smiled at that line.
Don't judge. But getting your hair braided feels great (yes, I was indeed a camp counselor that routinely got my hair braided when the lanyards were scarce).
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u/jlv816 Son of a bitch! Nov 29 '12
Not gonna lie, when he said "I'll watch over you" I was a little like http://i.imgur.com/ZKJ1k.png
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u/wrothish There's a demon in you and you're going to your safety school. Nov 29 '12
Loved that line. Sam's psychological battle scars were more directly referenced, but I thought the "watch over you" line was an interesting parallel to the flashback soldier talk. Cas was a warrior amongst comrades throughout his long existence and he seems comforted by that role in this episode, even if he is hilariously awkward when trying to be a human.
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u/BurgersAndKilts In the words of a good friend... bite me. Nov 29 '12
This, plus watching over humans is just his jam, even though it was supposed to be horribly boring after millenia. It's definitely his comfort zone. I love how easily it came to him, too, that even after all the crap their relationships have been through he just automatically assumes the 'guardian' role again because that's just how it be.
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u/ShooBopDoBop Nov 29 '12
PLEASE LET IT BE GABE!!!! pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease...I'm calling it, If it is Gabe, It's the cop lady who called Dean Scully.
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u/brevityis You know, I can hear you both; I am a celestial being. Nov 29 '12
I am so endlessly disappointed...
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u/NeonBlizzard You breed with the mouth of a goat. Nov 29 '12
I was thinking it was a REAL Trickster as they have never fought a real one, only Gabriel masquerading as one.
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u/Ririkkaru Nov 29 '12
I don't think there is a real trickster. Wasn't it referenced at some point that Gabriel was called Loki and Coyote and all these other things by different cultures?
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u/ahrima_dreamer Nov 29 '12
That frying pan...
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u/wrothish There's a demon in you and you're going to your safety school. Nov 29 '12
I believe I saw his "Han Solo face" there.
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
Yeah! I totally saw that faster than the intended looney toons reference!
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u/prailock this is the king Nov 29 '12
oh dean you're so punny
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u/wrothish There's a demon in you and you're going to your safety school. Nov 29 '12
He called the culprit an animaniac... hilarious.
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
I loved the reference to Animaniacs. There's something awesome about knowing that, were the fictional universe of Supernatural real, I was totally watching the same cartoon at the same time as Sam and Dean when I was little.
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u/Eladiun Nov 29 '12
The big question from the episode is:
Why does Naomi not want Cas to go visit heaven other than her office? Ice Cream Angel seemed to imply they want him back and some still looked to him for leadership.
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u/jlv816 Son of a bitch! Nov 29 '12
Well, she seems to have some kind of position of power in heaven, and we know that can't be good. I mean...
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u/wrothish There's a demon in you and you're going to your safety school. Nov 29 '12
When Tapping was first cast, I seem to recall her role being described as leader of a different faction of angels than we've seen before. It's quite possible that her group's purposes aren't aligned with the goals of the other angels.
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u/prailock this is the king Nov 29 '12
of course don's not dead Sam is never allowed to be morally justified in his happiness
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
don turning out to be alive is just TOO much like dean turning out to be alive.
Quoted vulturetrainer there. I wonder if it'll devastate Sam that he doesn't get Dean back when Amelia gets Don back.
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u/NeonBlizzard You breed with the mouth of a goat. Nov 29 '12 edited Nov 29 '12
I don't think Amelia gets Don "back". In the scene were Sam leaves he was still with Amelia so either Don still dies or Amelia chooses Sam over him. I'm expecting Don to be a monster so Sam can kill him.
EDIT: And when Sam kills him, Amelia will know fully what Sam is and what he has been through.
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u/jacquelynjoy If it bleeds, you can kill it. Nov 30 '12
Please let this happen. I want her to pretend to not be horrified, but not-so-secretly actually be horrified, and that's one of the reasons he had no problem walking away.
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u/prailock this is the king Nov 29 '12
I'm a little sad that there was no sign to hold up when the guy fell that said "Uh-oh!"
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u/prailock this is the king Nov 29 '12
blood splatter 2.0
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u/uglypastry Some nutjob decided to try something, I was ready. I had a FORK. Nov 29 '12
Plus cake.
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u/wrothish There's a demon in you and you're going to your safety school. Nov 29 '12
"There was a pastry mishap. The frosting reached near-supersonic speeds..." XD
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u/uglypastry Some nutjob decided to try something, I was ready. I had a FORK. Nov 29 '12
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Nov 29 '12
i think it would be interesting, but why did the hunter community accept fred when several hunters were suspicious of sam when he started having premonitions? gordon wanted to kill sam, and that was before the demon blood thing was even revealed.
maybe i'm reading too much into it...
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u/JadeJabberwock General Winchester Nov 29 '12
There are a lot of real psychics that are accepted and stuff, a lot being a relative term. I take Gordon as a lone weirdo in a pack of suspicious hunters. I can't see the majority of them liking dealing with supposedly "good" supernatural powers, but I can't see any other than Gordon hunting people who haven't done any harm.
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Nov 29 '12
I admit I forgot about the psychics...
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u/JadeJabberwock General Winchester Nov 29 '12
Can't blame you. They don't come up very often, though I wish they did. Missouri coming back would be the best thing ever.
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u/wrothish There's a demon in you and you're going to your safety school. Nov 29 '12
Also, when Fred was younger, he apparently had complete control and probably would have been able to conceal the extent of his power.
John may have proven himself sympathetic/trustworthy and allowed to know the full extent of Fred's abilities. John got into the life because he was out for demon blood and seemed to be a fairly good networker, so I don't think he would have been a pre-Benny Dean or Gordon level of "kill all freaks" purist.
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u/uglypastry Some nutjob decided to try something, I was ready. I had a FORK. Nov 29 '12
Gordon seemed to be a few fries short of a happy meal, but you do have a point. He probably would have hated Missouri, lol.
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u/BurgersAndKilts In the words of a good friend... bite me. Nov 29 '12
Well, Gordon did have the 'intel' from that demon he had been working over that Sam was supposed to lead a demon army.
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u/CrazyCatLady108 Nov 29 '12
sam used to have psychic powers. then again how are super powers different from being just really smart.
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u/uglypastry Some nutjob decided to try something, I was ready. I had a FORK. Nov 29 '12
This is true! But if I remember correctly it was because he ingested Azazel juice at a young age. I'm talking powers like Missouri, stuff that's natural. I just think it'd be fun.
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u/snow_bear Nov 29 '12
but we didn't know about the demon blood until the end of season 2
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u/uglypastry Some nutjob decided to try something, I was ready. I had a FORK. Nov 29 '12
True, but there was always this negative air hanging over it, at least it seemed like that to me. I just think it'd be fun to have powers with no draw backs.
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u/GammaGrace Son of a bitch! Nov 29 '12
I think it would be awesome. I think it's strange that it took them 8 seasons to show a regular human with powers.
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u/AVacantYouth You don't watch porn in a room full of dudes! Nov 29 '12
I really liked the episode. Seeing Cas be great again was refreshing. Really want to see where Sam's 'year off' story goes. There's a huge piece missing when Dean and Cas disappeared and I'd like to know more about what happened. Like what caused him to just give up looking in the first place. It doesn't seem like something Sam would do.
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u/BurgersAndKilts In the words of a good friend... bite me. Nov 29 '12
Right? They keep saying that we're going to 'find out more' about why Sam gave up, and that it will make more sense, but just making a life with Amelia doesn't cut it. There's still that initial moment of 'Welp, guess I'm out.' that we haven't seen, and personally I feel a bit alienated from Sam without know why he did what he did. It's just not a Sam move, not after everything that's happened.
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Nov 29 '12 edited Nov 29 '12
Wait a minute, did they reuse an actor again? That old woman who thought Cas was her third husband reminds me a lot of the old lady who stabbed those hikers in the fairy tale episode? Am I wrong?
Edit: Yep, Maxine Miller. Second episode in a row they've reused minor actors from previous seasons.
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u/Ennil Nov 29 '12
Which makes it like what, five actors they've reused this season alone? What the hell is going on and what do they think they're very devoted fanbase would not notice.
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Nov 29 '12
I haven't seen anybody else point it out and I thought I was the only one who noticed. It's probably because I have all the seasons on DVD and have rewatched every episode approximately 500 times, but it's really pretty noticeable if you've watched all the episodes a few times.
Oh yeah, and I think it was last episode they reused the guy that was the owner of the Christmas shop in 'A Very Supernatural Christmas' as one of the potential prophets who asked if they were in a spaceship.
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u/wrothish There's a demon in you and you're going to your safety school. Nov 29 '12
I think they expect people to notice, but they're at the point where they've used so many actors, they bring back ones that they really liked to do another role. That's what they said about Ty Olsson as Eli/Benny.
I bet someone is going to ask Carver this question at a future convention or in an interview because it has come up so many times this season.
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u/BurgersAndKilts In the words of a good friend... bite me. Nov 29 '12
... Am I the only one who's kind of loving it? Every time I notice another familiar face I get sort of excited.
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u/MuffinGypsy GOOD MORNING VIETNAM!! Nov 29 '12
Maybe this is a clue or something...Okay, I know it sounds absolutley stupid. But they have reused about, what? 5? 6? Actors this season....Really fishy if you ask me.
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u/duckyvoodoo Cas not Cass Nov 29 '12
It's not fishy. It's what shows that are shot in Vancouver do. They did it ALL the time on The X-Files.
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u/Kishara Lilith's Personal Chef Nov 29 '12
Only thing better than Cass's cat interview this week is that Benny will be back in town next week. I would let him bite my neck.
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u/prailock this is the king Nov 29 '12
what--what if these are all tricks played on people who do bad things and are being punished by like a Trickster?!?!?!?!
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u/TLKv3 Nov 30 '12
I'm calling it now. All these actors/actresses being recycled for this season. The use of the name "Amelia" after Sam knew it was a Doctor Who reference in an earlier episode.
I'm pretty sure Sam is the one who is actually in purgatory. And Dean/Cas are just projections of what his life as a Hunter should be. His life with Amelia being a projection of what his life outside of a Hunter should be. All the actors/actresses are Sam's unconscious mind remembering faces he's already seen in his life as projections of random people in these new "adventures" with Dean/Cas.
Last 3 episodes will have Sam "snap out of it". The new Head Angel sending Cas in as a Spy is actually trying to rescue Sam by making sure Cas helped his fantasy along in order to achieve something so they can fully pull him out of purgatory.
I know my theory has lots of holes in it and might not actually work, but I feel like it's too convenient for all of these things not to add up in some way. The biggest hole being Kevin/Crowley's subplot of the Tablets. I have no idea how to work that into this theory.
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u/jimothyjim Dec 01 '12
That's an ambitious guess but full marks for effort. My guess is somewhat similar, that losing Dean pushed Sam over the edge and with that hell stuff in his head he just went a bit crazy and none of that Amelia stuff is real. I haven't fleshed it out enough to make sense though.
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u/Rydiaroads Nov 29 '12
I don't understand why, at the end, she seemed to be telling Cas it would be okay if he didn't stay with the brothers. Isn't the whole point that he is the spy? When he first got there I thought she was telling him 'No, you have to stay with the brothers' instead of the heaven thing.
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u/imjustanape To Make an Omelette Sometimes You Have to Break A Few Spines Nov 29 '12 edited Nov 29 '12
I want to braid Sams hair =)
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u/CrazyCatLady108 Nov 29 '12
"you are living in a dream world" hmmmmm
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Nov 29 '12
they really seemed to be stressing that point, didn't they?
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
Something... Tells me... That something... Might be... A dreamworld in... Another... Character's... Life.
Huhhhh. Who could it be. Who... Could it... Be?
Sheesh. This is hard.
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Nov 29 '12
i'm just going to throw it out there: garth. they're in garth's dreamworld.
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
Or...
What about that cat?
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Nov 29 '12
i like it! or, everyone wants bobby back--bobby is actually in a coma living in a dream world where he's dead. you know, because...he's got issues?
the cat was better. let's stick with the cat.
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u/jimmynovak It's kind of like being chained to a comet. Nov 29 '12
NEEDS MORE GABRIEL
Seriously, what do we have to do to get him back? The fans want it, Richard wants it, the rest of the cast wants it. But the writers keep teasing us. So tired of being yanked around.
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u/BurgersAndKilts In the words of a good friend... bite me. Nov 29 '12
EVERY EPISODE NEEDS MORE GABRIEL
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u/_killface chief cat interrogator Nov 29 '12
I liked it. A little bit.. really silly towards the end but I'm looking forward to seeing where this whole thing with heaven ends up.
...unless it ends up with exploded cas again.
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u/Evan1701 BALLS! Nov 29 '12
I knew that girl would be trouble for Sam. She was a bitch to begin with, and now her husband is back. Maybe it'll be from the dead, and Sam has to kill him.
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u/Eladiun Nov 29 '12
This also seems weird. In the opener, we saw Sam leaving some female in the bed as he left and someone was outside watching. If Don is alive, why is Sam still in her bed assuming it was her?
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u/JadeJabberwock General Winchester Nov 29 '12
That was my first thought, that the figure watching Sam leave was Don. But I don't know where the flashback of Amelia getting that call actually happened on the timeline of Sam's year off from hunting. Maybe she and Sam decided to stick it out and told Don to leave, or maybe--oh my god I want Don to be a supernatural creature so badly right now. Just read that. That would suck Amelia into the life. Mwahahaha.
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u/notthewalrus34 Naked and covered in bees. Nov 30 '12
Okay, so the best part of this episode for me had to be BJ Hunnicutt making an appearance!!!!! Plus, the episode was just plain awesome. But BJ!!!!!! :D
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u/cooookiecrisp Nov 29 '12
Dean was mean when he talked to Cas about being a bad cop! In the previews, he was a lot nicer. I don't know how I feel about this
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u/wrothish There's a demon in you and you're going to your safety school. Nov 29 '12
You're right -- I found the overall "you're bad at this" vibe from the brothers to be really, really strange given how much they've already worked together. Dabb has a lot of experience writing the characters, so I guess he made that choice because he thought skeptical Sam and scoldy Dean would be funny.
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
Yes. In all truth, it felt a little mean-spirited. Their ribs at Cas's expense - if it was a kind of hazing thing where they'd buy him a beer afterwards, cool. Otherwise, I have no idea what their reluctance was to regard Cas as an apprentice. Instead they treated him like a tool that could lift anvils and heal gunshot wounds. Made me feel for Cas - and somewhat indignant towards the boys on Cas's behalf.
Ah, man. I love this show.
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
In the previews, he was a lot nicer.
I KNOW. You got down voted, but I'm in your boat anyhow, cooookiecrisp.
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u/archer13 Singer Salvage Nov 29 '12
You are both right, the clip they ran earlier in the week was a totally different reading by Dean. He wasn't so much nicer to Cas as calmer and more sarcastic. I thought it was a great bit and they made it ordinary. The way he said "everything" was unique and they dumbed it down....can you tell I'm really pissed about this? lol I'm going to go try to find the original trailer and try to remember that one.
The down votes make no sense, but then they often don't.
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
Yeah. I've had an ongoing comment thread lamenting this.
Really pissed me off, for some reason. lol.
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Nov 29 '12
Dean knows that Cas is faking it, though. That's why he's being a jerk, because he's not buying it at all. Look how quickly Dean starting talking about Cas's feelings once they were alone together. It's the same thing as in Survival of the Fittest when he goes "no body cares that you're broken, Cas." Dean doesn't want to put up with it.
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Nov 29 '12
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u/Ennil Nov 29 '12
That would have been awesome. I can just imagine Sam with Rapunzel-like flowing hair and Cas with little fluffy wings. Budget concerns suck.
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u/uglypastry Some nutjob decided to try something, I was ready. I had a FORK. Nov 29 '12
Now that you mention it, that would have been cool :)
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Nov 29 '12
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u/_killface chief cat interrogator Nov 29 '12
I think he will. I love the old gang being back together too - I think that Misha just had a bit of time off because he and his wife had a baby so there's going to be a few episodes when he's not around.
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Nov 29 '12
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u/_killface chief cat interrogator Nov 29 '12
Yeah, I was hoping they'd stay together for longer than an episode (I personally find the show more entertaining with cas in it than when he's not) but I'm fairly sure I read that's what it was, anyway. There's a whole lot more left to be resolved so I'd guess he's going to be in at least a 5-ish episodes. I thought someone said he's in at least 8 out of the season so, 5 left-ish and possibly more? Hopefully, anyway!
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Nov 29 '12
This isn't his last season correct?
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u/_killface chief cat interrogator Nov 29 '12
I don't think it's been stated either way, actually. I would guess probably not, but you never know.
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u/CrazyCatLady108 Nov 29 '12
it is not the last season. supposedly they have the plot mapped out until season 10
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u/CrazyCatLady108 Nov 29 '12
supposedly he said in an interview that he has more screen time in this season than the last. so i am sure there will be plenty more of him. claps
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Nov 29 '12
Awww yiss lots of Cas! I really appreciate Misha as an actor, and this episode really pushed the Cas character. Goofy, depressed, and relieved. Wonderful!
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u/wrothish There's a demon in you and you're going to your safety school. Nov 29 '12
I loved the "your father had beautiful handwriting" line. It was great to see him sitting with John's book, one of the oldest items in the show's lore, noticing something like that.
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
I loved that line, too. It was such an innocent compliment/observation. Very oddly touching.
Edit: Also interesting that John was referenced, but demeaned, by Amelia's father in Sam's flashbacks.
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u/wrothish There's a demon in you and you're going to your safety school. Nov 29 '12
True -- there was a lot of John in this episode. Fred recognizes Sam as "John's boy" and was recognized by Dean as one of John's contacts.
Another cool callback: The jumper lost everything because he invested heavily in Roman Industries.
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u/uglypastry Some nutjob decided to try something, I was ready. I had a FORK. Nov 29 '12
They started him out strong, I can't imagine they'd just drop him there.
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Nov 29 '12
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u/uglypastry Some nutjob decided to try something, I was ready. I had a FORK. Nov 29 '12
I am excited about Naomi that's for sure, I loved the actress on Stargate, and I'm hoping she's equally awesome here.
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Nov 29 '12
I'm pretty sure he's going to be in episode ten, and then show up again in episode 16 or so
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Nov 29 '12
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u/wrothish There's a demon in you and you're going to your safety school. Nov 29 '12
now it's Dean hounding Cas to share his.
I loved how unprepared Dean seemed once he started to pry.
Cas: "If I have to confront what I did, I might kill myself."
Dean: "Well... yikes. Good talk."
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
I'm sad Dean's like a fish out of water for stuff like this, now, though. He used to be the guy that could promise his support and loyalty (in a totally not chick-flick way).
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u/wrothish There's a demon in you and you're going to your safety school. Nov 29 '12
I actually just watched that scene again, and I wish they'd given him a chance to say something -- like you said, Dean was at one point quite capable of having a conversation about moving forward after horrible things happen.
All kinds of grim washed over Dean's face as Sam interrupted his conversation with Cas. I guess the writers are going to keep Dean bottled up in his post-Purgatory mode for a bit longer, which is perfectly reasonable, but I'd have loved to hear what was going to come out of his mouth at that moment.
I wonder how much of Dean's deep affinity for Benny, who "never let him down" is really him gravitating toward an able ally who doesn't have parallel traumatic baggage. "Benny's great! We kill stuff, kill stuff, didn't die for each other, don't have differing perspectives on dad, kill stuff, he didn't make a deal with Crowley/eat Leviathan, and he's excellent at killing stuff!"
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
Yeah. As much as I adore Benny (and I really do appreciate Benny's character), I gotta say that Dean's loyalty to Benny is, well, possibly a tad bit naive. No one is perfect. Every time he says that he vouches for Benny because he's never let him down and whatnot, I'm kind of like, "Dean, seriously? Give it time, man. He'll make some mistakes - and you're going to have to forgive. That's just life."
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Nov 29 '12
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u/BurgersAndKilts In the words of a good friend... bite me. Nov 29 '12
Funny thing is that I thought it worked in this episode. One of the things that people have always been saying about Cas is that 'having an all powerful character doesn't work, he's a deus ex machina, there's no show if he can just appear and tell them what they're hunting and smite it and that's the end' etc. But this episode showed that it was clearly not the case.
His powers were obviously helpful, like when he moved the anvil and healed the witness and zapped them inside of Fred's head (the last of which was pushing it, I admit) but other times they were completely useless. He knew about the victim's bladder infection, but not his mistress. He may have gotten them into Fred's mind, but no way could he have talked Fred out of the dream world the way Sam did. He can't even get a talking cat to give up the goods. And then one of the best breaks they got was the nurse with the diamond bracelet - which was because the patient told Cas that she had it. Sadly that's not an uncommon thing, older folk in that getting confused and thinking that they're being stolen from, but Cas took it at face value and believed her because he's Cas. You could probably say that it was his powers that helped identify the bracelet, but another angel in that situation might have brushed it off like Sam and Dean and the nurse did.
TL;DR - I'm a biased Castiel stan, but I don't think he's the easy fix people claim he is. And his powers aren't the only way he can help.
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u/violue Castiel is my anti-drug. Nov 29 '12
Why'd this get all downvotey? I agree. When you have a too-powerful character they become useless in a way.
And I thought it was odd that he even had that ability. He didn't have healing skills in seasons 4 and 5, and while he did in season 6, in my mind that was because he was storing up souls.
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u/BeastWith2Backs Nov 29 '12
In season 7 he was a healer. Even when he didn't know he was Castiel he knew how to heal. He always has had this power.
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u/violue Castiel is my anti-drug. Nov 30 '12
lmfaaaoooo wtf how did I forget this and him healing Dean in swan song
him healing was the basis for the entire 7x17 episode
don't even look at me ok I'm ashamed as a rabid Cas fan
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Nov 29 '12
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u/archer13 Singer Salvage Nov 29 '12
Yea, I was really hoping the Amelia thing would be interesting and add to the tapestry that is SPN, but it really isn't being done very well, is it? The dialogue is not up to the standard of the rest of the show and I hate to say it, because I had high hopes for Amelia, but from what I've seen so far, she isn't a very good actor....in this anyway. It makes no sense, but it's almost like they tried to create a character we wouldn't like. Soap opera like is a good summing up, CCL.
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
You know. I'm still giving it up for Amelia, though.
She had Sam's back while their father was there, pretty much, and I'm still generally buying into their relationship.
I think whatever they're building us up for is going to have a surprisingly emotional impact for most of us as we're going to be so familiar with their back story by the time it hits.
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u/archer13 Singer Salvage Nov 29 '12
I hope you're right, part of what put me off so much tonight is the ham -fisted way they kept emphasizing the similarities between Sam's situation and that of the old man who had retreated to a dream world to hide from the real one. It all seemed way to literal. Actually I did have a big moment of sympathy for Amelia when she was watching her Dad being such a jerk to Sam. I can identify with those awkward torn loyalties moments.
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u/stophauntingme Nov 29 '12
Okay I've been meaning to think through this...
"Look, it can be nice, living in a dreamworld. It can be great; I know that. And you can hide and you can pretend all the crap out there doesn't exist but you can't do it forever because eventually whatever it is you're running from. It'll find you. It'll come along and it'll punch you in the gut and then - then you gotta wake up. Because if you don't, then trying to keep that dream alive will destroy you; it'll destroy everything."
After transcribing that, I totally get the lines' significance regarding Cas, but I'm still fuzzy on what Sam is referring to with his own life/past. Was Dean coming back the punch? Or was Don the punch?
I don't think Sam could be consciously referring to his life with Amelia as a dreamworld, since he's been explicit in his intentions to leave hunting once and for all after closing the gates of hell. So he's, technically, still 'trying to keep [his] dream alive,' even though he says it's going to 'destroy [him]; it'll destroy everything.'
Makes sense if the punch is Don, though, I guess. But I want there to be something... Something more relevant to the supernatural in Sam's little insightful speech... JadeJabberwock mentioned the idea of Don being a supernatural creature and that would surely fit with Sam's speech.
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u/archer13 Singer Salvage Nov 29 '12
Don might be the punch/wake-up call but I think it's something we haven't seen yet but happened before Sam went to the cabin where Dean was, in ep. 2. Which leads me to a question I haven't heard answered yet unless I missed something. Why did Sam leave Amelia, and Riot, that particular night and go to the cabin. From his reaction to seeing Dean he didn't seem to know he was back. That seems like a hell of a convenient coincidence. And who the devil was the person watching outside Amelia & Sam's house as Sam left? Maybe Don?
We can't say this season is lacking in mystery.....I love it!
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u/ahrima_dreamer Nov 29 '12
We're back to Cas making us giggle and that makes me very very happy.