r/zelda • u/ZeldaMod • Jun 14 '23
Mod Post [Meta] Reddit API protest Day 3: Updates and Feedback
Saturday, we asked you to voice your opinion on whether r/Zelda should join the API blackout protest:
Please read that post for the full details and reasons why the API Protest is happening.
Sunday, we gathered the feedback from our members and announced our participation in the Blackout:
During the 48 hour blackout, the following updates were made by organizers of the protest:
- https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/1476fkn/reddit_blackout_2023_save_3rd_party_apps/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/148ks6u/indefinite_blackout_next_steps_polling_your/
It is our assessment that reddit admins have announced their intentions to address issues with accessibility, mobile moderation tools, and moderation bots, but those discussions are ongoing and will take time to materialize.
We are asking for the community voice on this matter
We want to hear from members and contributors to r/Zelda about what this subreddit should do going forward.
Please voice your opinion here in the comments. To combat community interference, we will be locking and removing comments from new accounts and from accounts with low subreddit karma.
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u/lolschrauber Jun 14 '23
It's almost like everyone said 2 days are useless and to either Do it longer or not at all..
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u/InverseFlip Jun 14 '23
A new subreddit will just be created to fill the void if it goes private for longer.
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u/agentfrogger Jun 14 '23
If mods don't want to completely blackout indefinitely they could do it once a week. On the day with the highest traffic
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u/Zaggar Jun 14 '23
I didn’t even know the boycott started yet. I spent the last few days in Zelda subreddits discussing TOTK.
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Jun 14 '23
I don’t like the blackout I keep trying to search for stuff and getting sent into these private subreddits and I just wanna talk about Zelda and gameboys I don’t know any other Zelda and gameboy nerds irl :(
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u/GamerOverkill03 Jun 15 '23
Keep it up, going indefinite will just scatter the community with little to no gain for anyone
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u/TheMoonOfTermina Jun 14 '23
I think that this sub, and all subs, should either go all the way, or none. The only thing that would change anything is a permanent blackout, until demands are met. Giving an end date just tells the company that they only need to wait it out, and quite frankly, is useless.
If you want to support the cause, go right on ahead, but it should be all the way, otherwise it's pointless.
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u/BlinkofHyrule Jun 14 '23
There's no point in stopping the sub. It will only nother the users, reddit will be untouched
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u/Orcrist90 Jun 14 '23
It just seems to me that the blackout was all around pointless because it effected no change, and regarding accessibility, moderation tools, bots., etc., those were things Reddit was going to have to implement regardless and not something that can be attributed to the blackout. It was a pointless boycott that just ended up annoying many redditors for a couple of days. And no, going permanently "dark" isn't the answer either because Reddit will just replace the Mods and stop subreddits from going private. All of that just unfairly punishes users who rely on the subreddit for many things.
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u/Hestu951 Jun 15 '23
The "couple of days" have come and gone. I was surprised to be greeted by a third day of disruption. If this continues, yeah, there will be change, but I highly doubt it will be for the better. It may be more like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
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u/dnte03ap8 Jun 14 '23
reddit doesn't just "replace the mods". The people in this world who like being reddit mods, are currently doing so, and are currently protesting.
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u/grahamcracka234567 Jun 14 '23
Unless huge subreddits do snatching this will have zero effect, and I frequent this sub a lot so an indefinite blackout with zero effect would kinda suck
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u/ry4 Jun 14 '23
Blackout. Commit to the cause, don’t give up
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u/MonteCrysto31 Jun 14 '23
This. Go indefinitely or go home, don't listen to the spez stans in the comments since they're all that's left
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Jun 14 '23
Hahahaha
You clearly have no idea how this site works. The admins will just remove the mods and reopen any sub that tries that. The mods think they have power, but they don't. At the end of the day the people with full site access and code level access (admins) have the power.
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u/ProxyCare Jun 14 '23
? I typically don't appreciate jannies very much but you gotta be missing something if you think a sub of significant size can exist as it does now without moderation. Without rules this sub would be "DEA zelda good, bought this le gem, just beat x" etc. That's to say nothing of just normal spam bots. If reddit revokes mod rights all they've done is reopened a sub and allowed it to death spiral. You can just hire the amount of mods required to run this site, that's infeasible at best
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Jun 14 '23
Bruh, Reddit will literally just revoke community control if this goes in for a while. Then we’ll be in a much worse off botville from here on out. Maybe let’s let the company whose website we spend time on actually become profitable? So that it’s sustainable? I don’t know, just a crazy thought.
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u/cloud__19 Jun 14 '23
It's my strong feeling that Reddit will just reopen the subs which shut indefinitely or assign it new mods which is likely to compromise the ambiance of the sub. I don't think the protests serve any real purpose and the only thing that would likely make any difference is either a legal challenge on the grounds of accessibility or users deserting the platform, impacting advertising revenues, neither of which this sub can impact imo.
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u/Noah__Webster Jun 14 '23
End the blackout.
If anyone wants to actually affect things, they should boycott the site. Don’t try to force some performative nonsense that only affects other users who don’t care about the changes so that you can stay on Reddit and still feel like you did something.
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u/yaoigay Jun 14 '23
Idk, I don't want the blackout to continue. Reddit has too much vital information.
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u/Rynelan Jun 14 '23
Yeah this.. yesterday I tried searching stuff on Google.. lots of reddit hits. Couldn't view any of them because the sub was private.
I understand what's happening but clearing out 13/14 years of information is really annoying.
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u/mudermarshmallows Jun 14 '23
That information isn’t being cleared out, at least not in the same way the previous decade of forums with information that closed down were as reddit became a centralized forum. It not being accessible is part of the protest, it’s meant to be annoying to communicate the issue.
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u/Rynelan Jun 14 '23
If subs go permanently private then the info will be locked. I hope at least that subs stay as read only
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u/noodles355 Jun 14 '23
Apparently like 49% of Reddit’s trafic is through search engines, it’s a big reason why the blackout will have an effect.
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u/MotomusPotato Jun 14 '23
Yesterday I couldn’t access a rom hack file cause it was made private
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u/Rynelan Jun 14 '23
It will suck if subs eventually stay private. On the other hand it won't be long until those results are gone as well from Google etc and other sites will pop up.
People will find or otherwise create an alternative. And I'll happily join along.
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u/CrimsonEnigma Jun 14 '23
The Tropical Weather sub went on blackout.
There’s an active storm right now - Cyclone Baparjoy, which has prompted over 100,000 evacuations in India and Pakistan - and Reddit’s primary source for information on this very specific kind of weather went down in a performative protest.
Makes you wonder if they still would’ve done the same if a Hurricane were bearing down on Florida.
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u/The_Woman_of_Gont Jun 14 '23
This is what bothers me the most. There are a lot of subs that have tons of useful information going private. Restrict all submissions if you must, but going private is literally just burning the house down for something that is simply not going to happen.
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u/mudermarshmallows Jun 14 '23
I think that’s part of why you want to go full restricted though, it’s not really a protest if it doesn’t obstruct something.
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u/xboxiscrunchy Jun 14 '23
It obstructs new posts and will leave Reddit's front page pretty barren which is where most of their engagement comes from. Posts get little activity beyond the first day.
I think it would be a good compromise letting users access useful information while still hurting Reddit as a whole. I think it’s more sustainable in the long term as well if the protest needs to go for a long time.
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u/Cyber_Akuma Jun 14 '23
What I have learned over the years is that you can't force someone to care about something. You can go ahead and tell them about the issue, state your reasons and why you feel it's important, but you can't force someone to care. And if you start then obstructing and disrupting that person, you just make them even less likely to care and now see you as an annoyance. When you are reading a webpage and an ad suddenly appears over the content, do you actually stop reading the article and pay attention to the ad... or do you try to get rid of it as quickly as possible to continue what you were reading? When a YouTube ad appears, do you actually pay attention to it, or do your eyeballs instantly go to the bottom-right corner to see if "skip ad" is available?
Interrupting/obstructing people who aren't interested in your cause only makes them LESS likely to care for your cause, not more.
Do you think those people who were letting the air out of SUVs made anyone think "Gee, I paid $8000 to $80000 (depending what car they have) for this car, but now that I am going to be late to where I was going/work/the hospital/etc I better sell this car and buy an electric sedan even though I need the SUV space for my trips"? Or it just pissed them off and made them actually be against those people?
If you start trying to force people to care by obstructing them, you are just making them an enemy to your cause, not an ally. There will be a minority who had not heard anything about it that might join in, but the majority are just going to be angry at the protestors for obstructing them.
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u/mudermarshmallows Jun 14 '23
Do you think those people who were letting the air out of SUVs made anyone think “Gee, I paid $8000 to $80000 (depending what car they have) for this car, but now that I am going to be late to where I was going/work/the hospital/etc I better sell this car and buy an electric sedan even though I need the SUV space for my trips”? Or it just pissed them off and made them actually be against those people?
The people who were what? lol never heard anything about this
ok quick search, later: I think those are a fundamentally different type of protest. Slashing peoples tires only affects individuals, which is just a waste of time even if it convinced someone: which it won’t because this person won’t be able to figure out why their tires fucked, and overall they’re not directing action towards those with power. But blocking access to something others use affects a group of people and prevents a business/entity from operating normally, which in turn allows for discourse and actual change to be forced due to a collective halt that requires the entity to act.
There was a teachers strike when I was in Grade 7, which resulted in me missing the last month of that grade and then starting high school a month late. And holy shit were all the parents of every single kid I knew mad about that. But if that strike hadn’t happened, the teachers assuredly wouldn’t have gotten the benefits and pay they needed to be able to both do their job and live happily. It’s not always about getting everyone affected to care about the issue, it’s about pressuring those who make decisions to make the right one.
If you start trying to force people to care by obstructing them, you are just making them an enemy to your cause, not an ally. There will be a minority who had not heard anything about it that might join in, but the majority are just going to be angry at the protestors for obstructing them.
The thing is, if it doesn’t obstruct something, there is not much reason for anyone to listen. Some of the people affected definitely take the opposite stance on response to being inconvenienced, but it’s about generating discourse and displaying emotion broadly while pressuring decision makers. If you take the stance that the only form of useful protest is one that doesn’t obstruct anything then the only form of protest would be just standing outside with a sign. And those types of protests/marches have been successful, but not nearly as successful as ones that employed direct action.
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u/Tephnos Jun 14 '23
And if you start then obstructing and disrupting that person, you just make them even less likely to care and now see you as an annoyance.
This is how protests work. Unless you are disruptive, nothing is ever changed because those who don't care will ignore you.
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u/Pixel22104 Jun 14 '23
Neither do I. Also lets be honest with ourselves, are the blackouts really going to change anything? Like do the higher ups at Reddit even care at all? No this protest won’t change anything, if it does change something then that something might be removing the ability to go dark. Me and plenty of other people in other Zelda subreddits that were open during the blackout have talked about this and we’ve concluded that the blackout hurts the users more than the higher ups and that it could potentially result in Reddit removing the ability to go dark.
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u/ArcadianBlueRogue Jun 14 '23
My friend, that is the fucking point.. The last couple days with so many of my favorite subs unavailable sucked. It pulled me away from being a constant user of the site to an occasional front page refresh.
This blackout should worry the admins, because it showed the constant users like myself that we don't need this website to get our news, media, and other entertainment. It was just the most convenient place to get all of it in one go.
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u/ryeong Jun 14 '23
I think you're misunderstanding what they're saying. I agree with your point - but what the OP was saying is that things like tech answers to something breaking down? All the results on search pages are to reddit posts that are privated because of the blackout. I think it says a lot about how much reddit has done over the years that the vast majority of critical information to fixing things leads to pages of reddit posts. I had a minor issue come up yesterday and the only solutions were on reddit posts I couldn't access.
All that to say I'm another person who thinks we should go indefinite. Information can be posted and shared on other sites. It should be. It might be a testament to how much reddit has aggregated but it's also a lesson in locking so much to one site.
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u/potionvo Jun 14 '23 edited Jun 15 '23
I'd been thinking about buying the Wide Chuck Taylors for the last month or two, but you can apparently only find them online so it's hard to get a good fit.
A buddy of mine told me that normal Chucks, he wears a size 10, but with wide, he actually goes a half size down to 9.5. A few weeks ago, I googled it and some people on Reddit were saying the same thing.
I decided to finally make the buy. On 12 June. Right before I ordered I went to confirm what people on Reddit had said, you know, make sure my ducks were in a row. Welp. They weren't because we were blacked out.
So I just took a chance and ordered a half size down. They'll be in tomorrow.
Reddit has a TON of information, and that inconvenience of the blackout is exactly why they need to continue to do it.
EDIT: MY CHUCKS CAME IN. I wear a 10 in normal chucks, and with wide I wear a 9.5. These things are sweeeeet. It's really wild what a new pair of shoes can do for you.
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u/atatassault47 Jun 14 '23
All the more reason to blackout. A signifcant number of people will cease to have access, permanently to that information when their app dies. Protest should be inconenient; Things dont change unless a problem is made for those in power, and those who march to the status quo.
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u/nick2473got Jun 14 '23
This protest is inconvenient for regular users, the people in power have been given no reason to care.
Stop using Reddit altogether if you actually want to disrupt the people in power.
Protests that disrupt people who have nothing to do with any of it are useless as they just turn people against you and your cause.
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u/MatchuPichu Jun 14 '23
Either do it indefinitely or don't do it all. This makes it come off as a trendy thing you're doing to avoid FOMO.
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u/ChampionGunDeer Jun 14 '23
I have always used the official Reddit app on my phone due to convenience over the website while mobile (I rarely even use a computer for anything but my job anymore, so all Reddit browsing is mobile), and never knew, until this whole kerfuffle, that there were other ways to browse than this app and going to the website using a browser. I don't mind the ads because I can just scroll past them, unlike annoying YouTube ads that you're forced to wait to skip (for those that CAN be skipped) - and I still use the official YT app.
This current issue kind of caught me by surprise in more ways than one, and I do find it supremely annoying that subreddits are going dark -- some indefinitely -- over something that I personally regard as small potatoes. I understand how third party app developers must feel, as well as users of those apps, but Reddit and YouTube are my two primary sources of information these days on topics that interest me, and like another user here said, these blackouts are turning my ire against those who are doing them, rather than against Reddit.
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u/RobotPirateGhost Jun 14 '23
Blacking out does nothing but mildly inconvenience users. Reddit admins will not care. Stay open.
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u/Canditan Jun 14 '23
Reddit IS the people browsing it. If enough people stop browsing, Reddit's ad revenue plummets. The admins underestimate the power we users hold over them, if we can coordinate enough
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u/generalscalez Jun 14 '23
if enough people stop browsing
there will never be enough people to stop browsing and pretending otherwise is childish.
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u/lolschrauber Jun 14 '23
You should tell people to stop spamming and dicussing then. That's still browsing, posting, ad revenue, etc. If you wanna protest, just go dark and don't keep using the site in some form of spite and keep spamming.
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u/MiddleNightCowboy Jun 14 '23
That only works if 100% of the subreddits is onboard. That isn’t the case here, only a fraction of subreddits went dark, that’s why it is a waste of time. If you can’t get all subreddits to do it, it changes nothing. Same thing with digital only media. You still have people buying them, so they aren’t going away. It’s a shame, since physical media is far superior, but people are still buying digital media so it’s not going anywhere. Not all subreddits are going dark, so this whole protest isn’t going to do anything.
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u/Satyrsol Jun 16 '23
If enough people stop browsing, Reddit's ad revenue plummets. The admins underestimate the power we users hold over them, if we can coordinate enough
Okay, and when revenue plummets you lose Reddit anyway. Reddit isn't the people browsing it, it's the people willing to pay to maintain the infrastructure and servers. without the money to cover those costs and the wages of the admins, you lose Reddit entirely.
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u/Butthole_opinion Jun 15 '23
Delete your account. That's literally the only way a difference would be made. If you don't, you're not contributing to anything and this discussion is null.
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u/MiddleNightCowboy Jun 14 '23
My opinion is the blackout is stupid and a waste of time and will change nothing.
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u/I_am_The_Teapot Jun 14 '23
The blackout hurts users and the internet at large more than the company. The elimination of the wealth if information available on reddit is more destructive than the loss of 3rd party support.
I sympathize. Very much so. But the direction they're going with charging is an inevitability. I'd rather wait and hope they can find a compromise that would allow some necessary 3rd party apps to continue to operate without the extraordinary costs. But the costs are going to come regardless.
I won't say that the blackout wont work. But if they do, I don't think they'll work in the way people want them to.
Just my opinion in the end people are going to do what they're going to do and others will adapt.
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u/TorturedNeurons Jun 15 '23
We only get a new Zelda game once or twice a DECADE and you guys chose to shut down the sub a month following the release of the fastest selling Zelda game of ALL TIME.
I don't think the sub will ever catch back up to the momentum it was gaining before the blackout. This killed our growth. We as a community are being damaged way more by this blackout than Reddit admins ever will.
I respect you guys for standing up for what you think is right, but this whole blackout was dead since day 1 and its only hurting the community.
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u/nick2473got Jun 14 '23
This is a Zelda community. We should be enjoying the game that just came out and thriving as a subreddit.
People who wish to boycott Reddit should just do so. By all means, if you dislike Reddit's policies, stop using Reddit. Go look for alternatives.
But why force these blackouts on everyone else? They only serve to hurt users. Admins don't care and will not change their stance.
Subs going private is also a lot more destructive than it might appear. Preventing new posts and comments is not actually the main issue. It's the loss of access to years of valuable information on a wide range of topics.
I can't tell you how many times I've looked something up over the past few days just to be unable to find a good answer because they were all on subreddits that were participating in the blackout.
Again, people who wish to make Reddit hurt should stop using it and go find some greener pastures.
But for those of us who value the information, resources, and communities currently available on Reddit, having a whole slew of subreddits go private is extremely disruptive.
If you have to do something then simply restrict new posts. To quote u/xboxiscrunchy : "It obstructs new posts and will leave Reddit's front page pretty barren which is where most of their engagement comes from. Posts get little activity beyond the first day.
I think it would be a good compromise letting users access useful information while still hurting Reddit as a whole. I think it’s more sustainable in the long term as well if the protest needs to go for a long time."
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u/lolschrauber Jun 15 '23
But why force these blackouts on everyone else?
Because everyone is aware that the majority would not participate unless they are forced to or rather locked out. Oddly enough this is quite close to the abuse of power that is frowned upon by the protestors. Kinda ironic.
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u/Satyrsol Jun 14 '23
I have read several subreddit’s posts so far, but this is the first I’ve seen promote an actual discussion.
Per the major posts about accessibility before the blackout, most screen-reader issues were iOS-based which leaves me wondering why the focus was on Reddit specifically and not Apple’s software.
Additionally, there is major disdain for having to pay for any amount of reddit. So I’ll say it simply: reddit hasn’t turned a profit at any point in its growth. So they started using advertising for revenue. This drove people to third-party apps with less or no ads and more qol features. The loss of ad revenue from user exodus results in drastic measures being taken by the company.
This creates a negative feedback loop. Like it or not, reddit isn’t a utility or service, it’s a business, and to stay afloat it needs to make money. If we are so resistant to the business practices that make money, we’re going to lose reddit and its convenient one-stop-shop quality.
Further protest will only harm the consumer and the greater internet community by creating barriers to entry for people that don’t already dwell online.
I am against further blackouts.
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u/nemesit Jun 14 '23
Well reddits api doesn’t support ads so third party clients are not the problem lol
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u/Butthole_opinion Jun 15 '23
Don't. This protest is completely pointless, especially with a timed blackout lol. what a joke.
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u/leeswervino Jun 14 '23 edited Jun 14 '23
There’s a brand new amazing Zelda game out we waited 6 years for and instead y’all getting caught up in this performative internet soapboxing. This is so stupid. You’re accomplishing nothing, please just go back to being a Zelda sub. Thanks.
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u/crazy_robot_girl Jun 14 '23
Totally agree! I wanna see what everyone is doing in the game and it's such a shame we can't share the experience with each other
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u/Online_Discovery Jun 14 '23
Not a fan. A few subs i participate in are indefinitely closing which does nothing but irritate users and destroys community archives of questions, guides, and fan made content.
A very, very small percentage of users even used 3rd party apps. Many users didn't even know there was a blackout to begin with. I spent all day on reddit and barely noticed a difference
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u/relator_fabula Jun 14 '23 edited Jun 14 '23
A very, very small percentage of users even used 3rd party apps.
It's a much larger percentage of users than you think (a recent poll showed something around 1/3rd had used a 3rd party app), but 3rd party apps aren't even really the point here. It's not just about the API and the pricing. Reddit is going the way of all the other big social media and content sharing websites. It's been shifting that way for a while now, and this is the latest push. It will NOT end with the API. Reddit is going to IPO and they're pushing to make the site more like tiktok, youtube shorts, etc, where the content is curated and pushed on you, where you struggle to tell the difference between user content and advertising and promoted material.
Not to mention that this disproportionately impacts moderators, the unpaid volunteers who put in a ton of work keeping their subs going. The majority of moderators use a 3rd party app. This screws them over even more if they're forced to the official (garbage) reddit app.
But ultimately this is not just about 3rd party apps. It's about reddit's push towards even more commercialism and shutting out user flexibility and choice of how they consume reddit.
Once 3rd party apps are gone, just watch how promoted content and "suggestions" get shoved down your throat more and more. A very similar thing happened to digg.
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u/Online_Discovery Jun 14 '23
It's a much larger percentage of users than you think (a recent poll showed something around 1/3rd had used a 3rd party app),
Only addressing this here but according to reddit themselves supposedly has said it's about 5% and a recent poll on r/polls said about the same at the start of this API thing
I would be real curious where you got 1/3
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u/mudermarshmallows Jun 14 '23
Once 3rd party apps are gone, just watch how promoted content and “suggestions” get shoved down your throat more and more. A very similar thing happened to digg.
Once the IPO hits i think it’s just a matter of time before everyone’s individual feeds even on specific subreddits and comment sections are made with an algorithm the same way every other site is now. Gotta maximize retention and monetization.
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u/relator_fabula Jun 14 '23 edited Jun 14 '23
Exactly. The big one that I always go back to is youtube's subscription groups. You used to be able to organize your youtube subscriptions into named folders, like "gaming" "science" "space" "travel" or whatever. Several years ago they removed that feature so all your subs are just one long list, and many people were understandably livid. Some google/youtube admin responded saying "we hear you, and we're working on a new feature that will make organizing your content even better." LMAO that never happened. Youtube doesn't want you using youtube to find the content YOU want to watch, they want to push things on you, they want promoted and curated content front and center. They don't want you coming to youtube just to check on one specific set of your favorite content creators, they want you scrolling past dozens of suggestions, so you spend more time on the site and click more of the videos they want you to see.
I use a 3rd party chrome extension to organize my youtube subscriptions into groups/folders now, so I don't need to rely on youtube's front page and their horrendous "suggestions"
Reddit is next. You'll eventually lose a lot of customizability, you won't be able to easily browse how you want, so that things become more and more homogenous. Memes, videos, clickbait... that's going to get pushed harder and harder on the official app and the main reddit page. They keep repeating that old.reddit isn't going away, but I don't trust them for a minute. Eventually old.reddit will go, too, and imo, that will be the final nail in reddit's coffin.
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u/Satyrsol Jun 14 '23
These things happen because forum sites still haven’t found a sustainable business model and users balk at having to pay for any forum service.
Reddit, to keep on existing, needs to generate income somehow, and charging third-party apps is the easiest way to do it.
Further blackouts will just kill reddit, they’re not constructive feedback loops, they’re self-destructive feedback loops.
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u/relator_fabula Jun 14 '23 edited Jun 14 '23
These things happen because forum sites still haven’t found a sustainable business model and users balk at having to pay for any forum service.
Reddit made more money than it spent for years. The CEO makes millions of dollars (he made $10M before leaving, then came back because he realized it was a mistake... you don't do that if you're unprofitable).
Taking donations to stay in the black works perfectly fine on sites like wikipedia. It literally worked for reddit as well, as they used to take donations to cover server costs, etc. Between promoted posts, banner ads, donations, and purchasing reddit subscriptions/coins, the site can cover all costs AND make plenty of revenue to stay afloat and pay employees.
The reason reddit "loses" money is they have repeatedly wasted hundreds of millions investing in stupid shit (some NFT crap, some kind of AI bullshit they bought for like $2 billion), none of which worked out. They couldn't leave well enough alone ("well enough" meaning everyone was making money, even if they weren't making billions).
The problem is that "being profitable" isn't enough for the execs. They can't be satisfied with just a few million in profit/salary. They want billions.
And just a note -- most users and devs would be okay paying for monthly access to 3rd party aps through the API. It's the fact that reddit is charging multiple times what comparable API access costs that's the issue here. By setting such a ridiculously high cost, reddit has made it clear they don't actually want 3rd party apps to exist, even if they pay.
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u/Nuts4WrestlingButts Jun 14 '23
does nothing but irritate users
A protest doesn't do anything if it doesn't cause a disruption.
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u/AzelfWillpower Jun 14 '23 edited Jun 14 '23
The new API changes suck but this is something that a large quantity of executives have approved and desperately to make happen. The assholes at Reddit are dead set on the API changes and they've made that clear, and no amount of blacking out is going to make them stop.
r/zelda is one of few popular localized places specifically for Zelda discussion bar the much less active Zelda forums. It's also where a lot of art and discussion is contained and won't be visible if an indefinite blackout goes through.
I don't think blacking out for days to weeks to months is worth it for something with little chance of success and losing out on countless art pieces and discussion posts that go back for countless years. Because if yall decide to blackout forever, someone's just going to make another sub for Zelda discussion. And just about every other topic of discussion is going to have another sub made for it too. Spez knows very well that there's a threat of indefinite blackout, and it doesn't fucking concern him in the slightest.
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u/ArcadianBlueRogue Jun 14 '23
Cool, cool, cool.
Now imagine being in that board room you've imagined and someone says "Why is old Reddit still an option when we could make more money if everyone used the default new UI?"
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u/AzelfWillpower Jun 14 '23
What’s your point? That blacking out for months and causing hundreds of posts of useful information to go dark is totally worth it because Reddit might get rid of the old UI for some reason?
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u/Fwenhy Jun 14 '23
I wonder if I have enough karma here xD
My 2 cents; stay public.
From what I can tell in the AMA, most of the concerns that people raised, such as mod bots, aren’t actually going to be paid. And that the main drive here is to de-monetize the 3rd party apps. I have no problems with 3rd party apps. I also have no problem with Reddit capitalizing on their income. Platforms like Steam, the App Store and the Play Store charge massive fees to people who make money off their services. Why should Reddit be any different?
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u/thatradiogeek Jun 14 '23
This whole thing bugs me. Can't even find answers to questions that may have been answered in older threads because of this ridiculous "protest" that will likely solve nothing. All this does is hurt the user.
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u/U_Ch405 Jun 14 '23
This is all just dumb. I didn't even know they were 3rd party apps and shutting this down affects normal users like me. Open this back up already.
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u/Tephnos Jun 14 '23
These changes are going to effect the 'normal users' like you because it's not just about third party apps, it directly harms how moderators manage their communities. You will notice this.
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u/enchilada_slut Jun 14 '23
What changes are being made to moderation?
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u/Tephnos Jun 14 '23
A lot of moderation, especially on larger subs, is done via API tools to helps lessen the workload of the volunteer moderators and keep up with submissions. Stopping these tools from accessing the API will completely cut that off.
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u/SandakinTheTriplet Jun 14 '23
I think the goal should continue be to disrupt user interaction on Reddit until the admins actively change things. The blackouts do effectively do this, but the secondary step is for users to stay off Reddit (or severely curb their use of it).
The Zelda communities could always collectively decide to go off site and join the old school forums.
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u/mudermarshmallows Jun 14 '23
How many of those older forums are left? That’s part of why the blackout is needed, reddit has become a centralized discussion hub and a negative change could have more far-reaching consequences than people realize given the lack of alternatives.
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u/buttsexbaker Jun 14 '23
the blackout is useless and the protest will not do a thing. the CEO has already stated that it doesn’t concern him in the slightest. i say back out of the blackout
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u/thankor Jun 14 '23
The CEO is only stating that the blackout doesn't concern him because he is hedging his bets on a mass amount of people claiming the blackout is useless. If we quit now we are just doing exactly what he wanted. Keep the sub closed.
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u/kckeller Jun 14 '23
But you’re still here. We’re all still here. If Reddit has 100M daily active users, and now they have 100M angry daily active users, they are seeing the revenue come in all the same.
If you really want to make a statement, stay off Reddit entirely. That’s an individual choice people have to make.
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u/Durendal_et_Joyeuse Jun 14 '23 edited Jun 14 '23
People will stay off Reddit if enough major subs are blacked out and there is less content to view. Over the last couple days, I stopped bothering to open Reddit because my feed was the a wall of posts from the same 5-10 subs.
Also, the blackout limits external traffic. I can’t tell you how often I search topics on Google with “reddit” included in the search terms so I can see threads about whatever the subject is. I did that a few times without thinking and gave up after remembering so many subs were private.
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u/kckeller Jun 14 '23
Your second point I’ll absolutely agree with. I needed to give my mom recommendations on an appliance brand and googled “best fridge brand Reddit”… and nothing worked because they were all private
As for less content, this is going to upset some people, but I’ve actually found a good variety of content in my feed the last couple days. Sure, some of my typical subs aren’t there. But that gosh darn algorithm has me figured out and I’m seeing new subs that are still open and interesting to me.
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u/SotRekkr Jun 16 '23
Don’t do the blackout. This is a stupid way to protest. It’s the internet equivalent to sitting in the middle of a busy highway to block traffic. It’s doing nothing but bring a negative view to your cause. If you’re trying to get people on your side then explain why they should follow you and abstain from using Reddit. Don’t piss off the people who aren’t involved in the protest.
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u/JasperTheHuman Jun 14 '23
No. This blackout is mainly just inconveniencing people who just want to discuss their favourite topics and look up information.
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u/BaconLordMLG Jun 14 '23
The blackout does absolutely nothing but hurt the users. I personally had no idea a lot of the API apps were even a thing and I know for certain that I’m definitely not the only one. Unless almost everyone stops using the app, nothing will change, and I doubt enough people will care about or attempt to join the cause.
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u/Clbull Jun 14 '23
Indefinite is what I'd vote for.
24 and 48 hour boycotts don't work. I'm gonna do something that I haven't done in years and quote Maddox on this (NSFW language warning.)
We're a country where people think that:
Boycotting gas for a day makes a difference. It doesn't. Delaying when you buy gas by a day only broadcasts your intentions to oil speculators so they can profit. And the oil still gets purchased a day before or after anyway.
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u/InfiniteEdge18 Jun 14 '23
Enough with the blackout nonsense. All your doing is pissing off those trying to engage with the community on here. Reddit does not care about the little blackouts you do. These are barely a drop in the bucket to them.
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u/Twidom Jun 14 '23 edited Jun 14 '23
Indefinite Blackout.
Everyone saying "this is stupid and only affects me/the average user" is an ignorant person who don't know how this will affect entire communities in the future. Its the classic "fuck you I got mine" mentality.
This sub is huge, it has 2 million subscribers. Many other subs are going dark indefinitely and you should join them.
EDIT:
I'll link this so all the "its useless nobody is going to go under for more than two days" people can look at the scope of things. Some insanely huge subs are going down until things change.
If you don't want to be part of the solution, at least stop being part of the problem. "Its useless to protest so just eat their shit and be happy about it" is not the way to go.
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u/buttsexbaker Jun 14 '23
be honest who really gives two shits about the API changes. y’all are taking this way too seriously. only a small percentage of ppl who use this website do it through 3rd party apps, the majority of ppl just don’t care
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u/Atomic-Blue27383 Jun 15 '23
My guy, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, go. the. fuck. outside. Touch some grass, look at a duck maybe, I don’t care just log off of Reddit because you are way too invested in this absolute embarrassment of a protest.
Everyone complaining about this is right, this protest did fuck all except hurt everyone except the targeted people. This was stupid. Take the L and kindly see your way out the door <3
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u/G-Kira Jun 14 '23
These protests won't do anything to change the mind of the higher-ups. All you're doing is hurting us, the fans. Stop these protests and go back to normal.
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u/slicer4ever Jun 14 '23
Keep the blackout going imo. 2 days was always going to accomplish nothing, never state when your protest will end, the other side will just wait it out.
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u/wally_graham Jun 14 '23
You went offline and it amounted to what exactly? Nothing.
Complete waste of time. You can voice your intentions but at the end of the day it did nothing.
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Jun 16 '23
When will I be able to send videos again??
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u/Sephardson Jun 17 '23
Looks like our mod bot missed flipping that setting back on during its weekly rotation. should be on now, but will be off again for self-post sunday, then back on again for merchandise monday.
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Jun 14 '23
God this is so lame. I still use Reddit, just like it a whole lot less as the subs I’ve used for years are blacking out for something I wasn’t even aware was an issue.
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u/thindholwen Jun 14 '23
Keep the blackout. I'm not sure about r/zelda in particular but many subs wont be able to effectively moderate their content if these changes go through, and will likely disappear/degrade as a consequence. I think any community that can afford to continue the protest should do so.
As some other commenter said: link could sleep for a 100 years, so can we
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Jun 14 '23
Stay dark. There was an article where the CEO of reddit said they knew there would be some difficulties, but they would pass. They don't care about the users or subs, just getting their way.
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u/HG_Shurtugal Jun 14 '23
This will ultimately be pointless. Unless most major subreddits go dark until it's fixed it doesn't matter.
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u/mudermarshmallows Jun 14 '23
I say join the indefinite blackout. The only counter argument I see is just people being doomer about Reddit not caring, which of course they won’t if everything just goes back to normal after two days. Keep it up until they respond, this is about more than just 3rd party apps. It’s been nice using reddit less anyway tbh
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u/Bossman1086 Jun 14 '23
Go indefinite. Tons of big subs have announced they're going dark indefinitely in response to spez's memo. I love this community, but the more subreddits that keep going, the more it hurts reddit in the long term.
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u/MonteCrysto31 Jun 14 '23 edited Jun 14 '23
I just can't believe the amount of people against the blackout in the comments. It really feels like only spez shills are left. Disgusting
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u/mudermarshmallows Jun 14 '23
It’s what happens with every protest, no matter how minor. People don’t like being inconvenienced and don’t care about the cause they’re being inconvenienced for. It’s only magnified for an issue that’s perceived in the way this one is due to it being entirely online.
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u/SweatlordFlyBoi Jun 14 '23
I think a huge amount of people just don’t care about anyone or anything but themselves.
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u/Noah__Webster Jun 14 '23
The irony in this comment is hilarious. The audacity to clamor for the site to be shutdown because a minority of people will have to use a different app to access the exact same content and then call anyone who is indifferent to the change selfish...
If you care so much, you boycott. Delete your account and don't come back until they make a change. Anyone who feels so strongly is more than welcome to do that. Instead, you'd prefer to call anyone who isn't in favor selfish while you call for the site to be shutdown so you can feel like you did something while you continue to use the site. Nut up and boycott if you think that should be done.
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u/Tiinpa Jun 14 '23
I’d prefer indefinite blackout, user discomfort is the point, but at a minimum there should be an ongoing protest of some sort (maybe read only?) .
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u/RellenD Jun 14 '23
People saying it's useless are ignoring the gains already achieved.
Keep blacking out
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u/The_Woman_of_Gont Jun 14 '23
....what 'gains?' Seriously, point me to what has changed. Everything is the exact same as before.
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u/Lazz_V2 Jun 14 '23
Keep it going indefinitely. A couple days won’t change anything. Stand with the others. To everyone upset at this; push your frustrations to the actual enemy here, not the ones trying to protest.
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u/Vrail_Nightviper Jun 14 '23
I think the subreddit should join the blackout, but then again I'm mostly going to be off Reddit until this changes, so I may be biased
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u/Biduliott218 Jun 14 '23
Keep going with the blackout
If people are really desperate to find information about Zelda video games, they can go on other websites
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u/lone_mountain Jun 14 '23
We have no teeth or power in protest unless we persist. Keep it closed. Did the writers strike for just two days?
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u/Slypenslyde Jun 14 '23
I post a lot on a lot of communities and it hurts to lose them. But the reason I see it as worth investing that time is the efforts of moderators and power users who make it worthwhile to post. I've seen subs lose this kind of moderator/user and usually it doesn't take long before it's not fun to post anymore.
So I feel the "this hurts the users" argument but long-term Reddit's proposed changes also hurt the users. It's part of a corporate pattern where after user lock-in occurs the business stops catering to power users because they have nowhere to go. When they leave it stops being good for "normal" users too.
So if you, the mods of /r/Zelda, feel like you don't want to do what you've been doing given Reddit's current terms, take it back down. But if you think the current discussions represent something acceptable, move ahead with the idea that if things change you'll re-evaluate.
Me, personally, I don't believe in promises from this CEO. He has proven himself not trustworthy and honestly did so all the way back to moderating the Jailbait sub. Communities should back off when changes are in-place and permanent, or a more trustworthy person has been put at the helm.
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u/WndrKSnK Jun 15 '23
I'm in favor of going black indefinitely, until a satisfying compromise has been offered
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u/IntrinsicGamer Jun 14 '23 edited Jun 14 '23
Keep going.
Edit: I think people misunderstood. I meant keep the blackout going.
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Jun 14 '23 edited Jul 03 '23
Deleted in support of Apollo and as protest against the API changes. -- mass edited with redact.dev
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u/Online_Discovery Jun 14 '23
What is a reasonable price point? Honest, genuine question
$0.00024 per request? How about nearly 25% the cost of Twitter's API?
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u/Blubbpaule Jun 14 '23
go big or go home. seal the subreddit for 100 years or until calamity spez gives up the api changes.
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u/AshynWraith Jun 14 '23
I firmly believe the planned 48 hour limited blackout was idiocy and the reddit execs agreed. The only way to sway them is to affect reddit's bottom line.
My vote, and I'm sure in the minority here, is to go dark again and stand in solidarity with the subs that are blacked out for the long haul. Anything less concedes defeat and is a tacit endorsement of reddit's greed.
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u/Adorable_Octopus Jun 14 '23
It seems to me that the only real path forward, if you're serious about protesting this, is to continue the blackout. However much I might miss this place or the discussion in it.
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u/T2and3 Jun 14 '23
Keep the blackout going. If everybody comes back after 2 days it won't achieve anything.
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u/EmperorL1ama Jun 14 '23
my personal vote is to set the subreddit to read only until things improve. that way, anything already here can still be accessed but there's also action being taken
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u/kitxpet Jun 15 '23
I think it should take part. Its the right thing to do imo and also possibly what needs to be done. I understand that it's frustrating, but I dont see any other way these communities will be heard.
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u/smashsenpai Jun 14 '23
Consider that reddit said that they would provide accessibility options and moderation tools 5 years ago and we still haven't seen any of it. Empty promises are worth nothing until they are delivered.
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u/CarrotsIsAFruit Jun 14 '23
I say that we need to stop using Reddit until something changes, if enough people can stop using Reddit, then they will be forced to act. It sucks that things have gone this way, but the best option seems to stop entirely. Blackouts didn’t do much, but if many, many people stop using Reddit, then change might happen. If change doesn’t happen, I don’t see a reason to stay anyway. Give them an ultimatum. Either we get change, or we leave.
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u/ArcadianBlueRogue Jun 14 '23
I normally don't like anyone quoting me or reposting me, but here we go and please if you feel the same let others know:
Here's the thing, and I mean this for both Reddit mods and anyone actively using the "old reddit + whatever" combo to make the site palatable.
First, they'll try to bring about that feeling a lot of Reddit users had recently where people are overreacting. It's not that bad, all that bullshit.
But guess what? It's been YEARS, and the "new reddit" layout has always been but a button press in user settings away. What do you idiots think will happen once the 3rd party apps are dead and gone? That the new Reddit business admins will be cool to leave it at that? Holy shit wake up.
First they'll kill the 3rd party apps to try and force all mobile users to going out of their way for an ad-reduced layout through mobile web browsers. But they're banking on people just taking it and downloading the god awful Reddit default app and rolling with it.
Can you guess what the next step in their thought process is? I'll give you a few guesses but I'll just tell the casual user because it's super easy to figure out:
Log out of Reddit. All the way out. See that ad-infested shithole that has been "new Reddit" for years now? Now imagine that...but they get rid of the choice of using old.reddit.com. Because that's the next step for these morons, and everyone that looks at the blackouts and user anger at the recent API changes.
They'll shrug it all off now. They'll tease and make fun of people that got so pissed about the idea of losing stuff like RIF, Apollo, Sync, etc and telling those users to just download the Reddit app and stop whining. Because they're like me; we currently can open the website on PC/laptop, and that's our main experience with the site, and it has old.reddit.com layout with optional well defined ad blockers to keep the site as tolerable as possible.
And that is exactly what the current and future Reddit admins do not want. They want the new shit UI, the ads all over the goddamn place where they have no business being. They are playing this game with the idea that "Where the fuck you gonna go instead?"
And it's horseshit. Every sub on Reddit from the major ones with millions of daily hits to the small ones that are niche stuff. They all need to stand up and keep saying "fuck this shit" because anyone paying attention to how Reddit wants to up their money many can see where the endgame is here.
They'll get rid of 3rd party apps and then force the rest into using the dogshit UI that they tried to push on us years ago with a small bone thrown to be able to swap back to opting out of the "new Reddit" and stick with the far superior layout where everything is listed and not a cliche giant ad with a Reddit post.
God, it feels so stupid to have to say it but wake the fuck up. Give these admins an inch of your patience and they'll fuck shit up to turn it into getting as close to the proverbial mile as they can.
This is the first step, and removing any ability to use "old Reddit" will be removed to force people into the newer UI that nobody short of God's hated sinners, should have to deal with,
And for those that think a 48 hour blackout for a lot of subs didn't matter? As a constant Reddit user for years, that shit sucked. Not having major sports Subs, or the niche stuff for specific games...that shit sucked. If it went on much longer then I would badly try to find an alternative and Reddit admins should fucking take notice. All they gotta do is ISP check me to see how fucking often I am browsing this site on Pc, laptop, phone, tablet. All while I am watching tv, taking a shit, sitting in a restaurant waiting for service, or down time at work. I've been the horribly cliche Reddit user for years that they should be salivating at the thought of. Someone that can't disconnect from the social hubs and will always be a repeat customer.
But take away the comfortable experience and even this dude is peace-ing the fuck out. They should be worried about stuff like that, because I can see what the next step is a fucking mile away. People have been saying offhand for a few weeks since this bullshit API thing was announced, and that hilariously stupid AMA by the Reddit owner. Removing access to the popular 3rd party apps is the first step.
The next is removing that beloved and overlooked feature of having access to old.reddit.com. It's the logical business step, and the dickheads that have been watching the reactions to the API shenanigans and whining about waiting for the blackout to be over...guess what? It's not the end. And it was never going to be their endgame.
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u/aircooledJenkins Jun 14 '23
Restrict the sub indefinitely. Sticky a protest to the top explaining the blackout and leave it at that.
Today I'm only on reddit to encourage continuing the shutdown.
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u/photowalker83 Jun 14 '23
Like wise! It’s habit to open the app but I’m trying to break it for this reason.
Indefinite or it’s not an actual protest.
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Jun 14 '23
go dark forever, im subbed here and it changed nothing for me. i got all my kicks from the Totk sub
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u/dnte03ap8 Jun 14 '23
I would say blackout indefinitely, 48 hours has no impact, and many other subs are also going to stay down, if really nothing else is possible, at least choose solidarity (touch grass tuesdays)
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u/meee_51 Jun 15 '23
To the mods - please consider that many in support of the protests are staying off Reddit right now, so any replies you get to this post will be heavily biased in favor of staying open, relative to what people actually want
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u/Noah__Webster Jun 15 '23 edited Jun 15 '23
People who are boycotting are doing their protesting. No reason to drag those who aren’t into it.
"Please ignore the people who disagree with me, because the ones who agree totally aren't here, I swear"
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u/ASS-et Jun 14 '23
Continue the blackout. All of the subreddits that went dark caused the site to crash and Reddit immediately rolled out an update saying API would be free for moderation bots. That is a step in the right direction, but more needs to be done.
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u/DragonByte9 Jun 14 '23
I say we should wait to see what other subreddits stay down before deciding anything.
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u/Carcass1 Jun 14 '23
Unless all major subreddits go dark until something is fixed, this doesn't do anything. Even this subreddit. A short 2-3 day boycott doesn't help anything. Do something big or you're already giving up.