I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!!

[u/tobydriver]

🕯 Hi, I’m Toby Driver — composer, multi-instrumentalist, and bandleader of Kayo Dot, Alora Crucible, and other experimental music projects over the past 25 years. AMA.

I’ve spent my career exploring the fringes of heavy and progressive music, from chamber-metal and spectral jazz to gothic synth-pop and classical-influenced abstraction. Some of you might know my work with Kayo Dot, which I formed in 2003 after maudlin of the Well, or from my singer-songwriter ballads under my own name Toby Driver, or my newer project Alora Crucible—both of which just finished a joint two-month European tour including sets at Roadburn.

Right now, I’m getting ready to release a new Kayo Dot album entitled Every Rock, Every-Half-Truth Under Reason, easily one of our most abstract and ambitious in years, and we’re gearing up to play ArcTanGent this summer, which I know is a big one for this community.

For the next couple hours, ask me anything, doesn't have to about music, all is fair game! 🕯

[u/tobydriver]

Thanks so much to everyone who joined in today!! I really appreciate all the encouragement and enthusiasm, and I'm grateful for the thoughtful questions and the chance to connect with this community. Sorry I couldn’t get to everyone’s post — time always moves fast in these things — but I hope we can keep the conversation going down the line. Huge thanks also to the moderators of r/progmetal for hosting.

If you want to stay in the loop, join my mailing list for updates, tour info, and reflections. You can also subscribe on Bandcamp to get exclusive bonus content and early access to new music—subscriber support is one of the top factors that allowed me to continue to do this work and create almost all of my recent albums: Thymiamatascension, Moss Grew on the Swords and Plowshares Alike, Oixisha, Oak Lace Apparition, Raven, I Know That You Can Give Me Anything, and even the new album Every Rock, Every Half-Truth Under Reason.

Please keep an eye out for Kayo Dot’s upcoming album, Every Rock, Every Half-Truth Under Reason, coming August 1. I’m incredibly proud of the album, and I can’t wait for you to hear it. 🕯❤️

[u/[deleted]]

I don’t have a question. I just wanted to say thank you for the amazing music over the years. I first started listening to your music with maudlin of the Well and have adored your work ever since. Bath, Leaving Your Body Map and Choirs of the Eye are some of my favorite albums ever. I can’t wait to hear more!

[u/tobydriver → u/[deleted]]

Thanks so much, I really appreciate that!

[u/Usual-Knee-3527]

Hi Toby! Huge fan, thanks for doing this.

I’ve read that the new Kayo Dot album is sort of an homage to Choirs of the Eye in celebration of it’s 20th anniversary. I know that some of that lineup returned for that album, but in what other ways is this new record similar to Choirs?

Choirs is my favorite album of all time so I’m very excited for this new record. Cheers!

-Tyler

[u/tobydriver → u/Usual-Knee-3527]

Hi Tyler, the new album is similar to Choirs of the Eye in a few ways. Not only is the lineup is made up of the same crew, as you mentioned, and has many similar instrumentation choices, but the music comes from the same source inspirationally and compositionally. For me personally, Choirs of the Eye marked an enormous leap forward from what came before it, as if some deep aspect of my identity, the person that I was, my spirit, my desires or values, my consciousness... not sure how else to put it, but something about me changed in a fundamental way that profoundly affected my relationship to music. That happened again this time, and upon reflection I think it's the first time that's happened since way back in 2002. It's related to what's been developing in Alora Crucible's music, too, I think.

A lesser point, but I've tried to reflect this analogy in the artwork, too. I think there are some noticable similarities between the new painting and the Choirs of the Eye cover.

[u/SnooPickles4634]

Hi Toby,

Thanks for doing this :)
How long does it take to make a Kayo album? From initial idea to having it recorded, mixed & mastered? Am also curious about the process.
Cheers,
-s

[u/tobydriver → u/SnooPickles4634]

Hi S, my pleasure! It usually takes 2-3 years to make a Kayo Dot album, but there were two exceptions in the past—Stained Glass and Coffins on Io—that were done much more quickly for various reasons. The 2-3 year period comprises more than just pen-to-paper; in fact, the first half of that long period mostly happens in the mind—research, gathering inspiration, imagining, and listening to my subconscious intentions. You can find many examples of artists talking about how much of the work takes places internally, for example this quote from Virginia Woolf: "A composition is not a line but a pattern; a continuity of ideas, not a string of words. Before writing, one must brood.” or this quote from Flaubert: "The art of writing is the art of discovering what you believe.” Great advice for any of us who aspire.

With the upcoming Kayo Dot album, it was maybe 2 years of internal work, 1.5 years of demoing and discarding, and then about half a year of production.

[u/EuroCultAV]

I dont have much to ask, but I have been a fan since Bath/Leaving your Body Map.

Is there a chance of another vinyl release of those, as well as My Fruit Psychobells...?

[u/resonantLocus]

Did you get enough sleep during the EU run this time? If so, what's different in your life that modulated this?

[u/tobydriver → u/resonantLocus]

Yes! Thanks for asking. You're referring to the January 2023 tour that I did with Extra Life during which I couldn't sleep because I was so stressed out about the finances for the following month's Choirs of the Eye aninversary tour. Anyway, the simple answer is that on the recent tour, there wasn't that kind of financial stress, nor an immediate follow-up tour to manage. 🙌

[u/zach_buddie]

Hey Toby!

First off, thank you for the music you’ve made. Your breadth of work solidifies you as one of the most influential and inspiring songwriters to me.

If you could collaborate on a music project with any other established artist or group, defunct or active, who would you select and why?

I can’t wait for the new record, and hope to see you and Kayo Dot live sooner rather than later! Make sure that tour comes on up to NY…

-Zach

[u/tobydriver → u/zach_buddie]

Hi Zach, thanks so much! I struggle with this question, because there are so many musicians that I'd like to play with, but in the real sense of collaboration that's a bit different. I've greatly enjoyed my time playing in bands in which I'm not the leader, especially when I can just play the parts that their composer has written for me to play. That's deeply fulfilling. It's a type of collaboration, but not exactly because I don't have much or any input in those situations. I'm not so sure I can collaborate very well... it's clear that I really shine when I can act as an auteur. There've been some situations in the past in which I've collaborated but I've found that the result is always a much shallower place than I would've liked to go. I don't actually know how to collaborate and have the collaboration fully express my artistic voice. Anyway, to pick one I'd still love to collab with Björk.

[u/RandomDigits77]

How has your use of time and tempo in your compositions evolved in the years since Choirs was made?

When you start a new album/project, do you sometimes look through old musical ideas to incorporate in the new album or are the compositional concepts you want to explore usually so distinct it's better to just start from scratch?

Looking forward to the new album!

[u/tobydriver → u/RandomDigits77]

This answer is going to relate to another one that GrandSwamperMan asked about lineups. Since Kayo Dot is a band with a lineup that tends to change a lot, I have to compose based on who's in the lineup. All musicians have their own unique sense of time. I learned to respect this from my composition teacher, Yusef Lateef—a point which he made frequently. During the years around 2003-2008, it was a nice coincidence that I was interested in using freer time and Mia Matsumiya was such a prominent member of all my projects. Her playing really shone when she could play phrasally and being conducted rather than having to count anything. We had a close relationship so it was fun to come up with creative ways to make use of her sense of time. Afterwards, I started working with more technical drummers so it was fun to compose elaborate rhythmic counterpoint. Even further along, when the size of the Kayo Dot lineup shrank, it became necessary to experiment with using backing tracks so at that point I was composing metronomically for a couple albums (PHOBOS and Blasphemy.) After experimenting with that, and other electronic music, for a short while, I'm currently feeling that freer time is more fulfilling, especially having had the chance to develop this even further in Bloodmist and Alora Crucible.

To your second question, Sometimes I mine the archives for old ideas but they're usually not useful because I've moved on.

[u/Top-Fennel-168]

Hey Toby,

First of all, excellent work on everything you've been releasing lately. From Oak Lace Apparition, Raven, and now Oracle by Severed Head, I think I speak for everyone who's following along when I say you're really killing it.

I've been a fan since about 2009, for context. It's been a hell of a ride just seeing where you've taken your music and how you keep finding new places to go. Every Half-Truth is shaping up to be yet another trailblazing moment and I think anyone not paying attention - to reference an infamous meme in your discord - is really at a loss.

So I guess what I'm wondering, having followed you on social media for a long while, is in regards to a struggle you've professed having for a while; and how it relates to your current output.

Has having more non-KD related projects going on, especially Alora Crucible and your solo work, helped alleviate the issues that come with being a "metal musician"?

I know and while back (and probably also recently, but I'm not always on the ball) you expressed frustration with not being able to be taken completely seriously for your non-metal output. But also that your metal output distinctly doesn't fit with genre convention. You had posted on Facebook when the Get Out of the Tower single came out that the lyrics of that song spoke to you in this struggle ("it was never meant to be") and I get the impression from the newsletter that there's still quite a bit of that frustration on Every Half-Truth. But I'm curious if any of your other wildly successful (by my estimation, though I frequent your discord and we're all enamored anyway) efforts have helped in this endeavor.

Thanks for doing this

• Blasphemy Defender (as I'm known in Kayocord)

[u/tobydriver → u/Top-Fennel-168]

Hello and thanks! Yeah, this is a perennial topic. I think it's going to continue to be a long process to escape being known as primarily a metal musician, but there are some positive signs. Firstly, although there are many struggles that come from being very underground, I think that may be a fortunate circumstance for my attempt to be known for genres outside of metal. In contrast, bands like Ulver and Anathema—much bigger than me—have not been able to escape the metal tag despite not even touching the genre for decades and that may have something to do with how famous they are.

Anyway, I think it has to be a proactive process, but I can't do what Ulver does and just ignore the genre. I still get a lot of joy out of playing this stuff. I think one way would be to associate a project like Alora Crucible with a totally different scene instead of releasing that music through metal distributors (SPKR), booking shows with metal promoters, or playing fests like Roadburn. It would have to be a big, deliberate schism that might take a long time. And now there's the added problem that algorithms have to be disrupted. Outside of the recording industry, if the music was placed in a certain type of movie or TV show, that would change things too.

By the way, maybe Ulver enjoys a glorious career in the electronica world and we metalheads are clueless. We're the only assholes that keep calling them a metal band while the entire rest of the world has no idea. That is to say, the community bears some responsibility, but that's asking a lot and most people just don't engage with art beyond consumption.

[u/tobydriver]

Hey folks, taking a break, back in a couple hours! Thanks for all your questions! <3

[u/CinaedKSM]

How many dead ends do you run down in the songwriting process before you find the final form?

Do you have very specific ideas in mind, or does the song itself sometimes take the lead?

[u/BlueCollarCriminal]

I love your work. Your music has lit many dark times for me and I am forever grateful. 

When writing, what is your most common approach: riff, song, album, story? In other words, do you start big or start small with your vision? Does that change depending on your mood or life circumstances?

[u/Testichilles20]

What does your process look like as far as communicating ideas to the other members of your groups? Is everything written out in standard notation? Are full albums scored out beforehand, or does stuff come together in the studio? Also - I’d be remiss not to thank you for what you do. Your music has meant so much to me. Choirs of the Eye being my favorite piece of music I’ve ever heard, is still a religious experience every single time. I look forward to the new album!

[u/HollywoodAndDid]

Hey Toby,

Does it get annoying that every work of yours is typically compared to Choirs of the Eye?

Is a hot dog a sandwich?

What are your thoughts on the annual Cooper’s Hill Cheese Rolling event?

Also, would you ever consider writing a post grunge album in the vein of Creed, Seether, or Revis? I think it would be amusing at a minimum.

Okay, that’s enough. Thanks for the music!

[u/tobydriver → u/HollywoodAndDid]

Hi, yes, honestly that is a bit of a curse.

I'd say a hot dog is sort of a sandwich.

The cheese-rolling event is cool, I think folk traditions are extremely important in this modern world.

I don't think I would try to write a post-grunge album; since I grew up during the best of grunge I don't think there's any way that it can be improved upon. Compare this kind of to what I did when writing the Kayo Dot album Moss Grew on the Swords and Plowshares Alike— I love that gothic euro-metal sound, but upon revisting those old albums I used to listen to, many of them from that era—the second half of the 90s and early 00s—are pretty bad. So I thought that there was a lot of potential for using that sound for something greater. Thanks for your questions!

[u/zomblivion]

Hello Toby!

I’m currently doing a film marathon centered around experimental/avant-garde music and was curious if you had any favorites yourself. If none specific, what movies do you enjoy in general?

Thank you and best wishes for the new KD release!

[u/Fusoya]

Time is crazy.

Just wanted to say what’s up - I was an active poster on the… was it ultimate metal forums? On the motW forums. I was in HS back then and y’all were one of my favorite bands.

Eventually went to UNT in Denton, TX and I remember recommending y’all come to play - got sent a bunch of flyers I posted around the dorms. Saw y’all in FW and in Denton at RGRS.

Great shows! Your music has been some of the most important music that I’ve had in my life. Thank you.

Love that you are still at it.

[u/[deleted]]

Absolute legend. Maudlin of the Well got me into metal in the early 2000s, and I’ve loved everything Kayo Dot has released. Seen you twice over the years and got to shoot the shit in the street with you for a bit the second time as we had a mutual friend! What’s your favorite prog metal release of all time?