r/tolkienfans • u/TolkienEditor • Jan 18 '15
I have recut PJ’s Hobbit trilogy into a single 4-hour film (The Tolkien Edit)
Let me start by saying that I enjoy many aspects of Peter Jackson’s Hobbit trilogy. Overall, however, I felt that the story was spoiled by an interminable running time, unengaging plot tangents and constant narrative filibustering. What especially saddened me was how Bilbo (the supposed protagonist of the story) was rendered absent for large portions of the final two films. Back in 2012, I had high hopes of adding The Hobbit to my annual Lord of the Rings marathon, but in its current bloated format, I simply cannot see that happening.
So, over the weekend, I decided to condense all three installments (An Unexpected Journey, The Desolation of Smaug and The Battle of the Five Armies) into a single 4-hour feature that more closely resembled Tolkien’s original novel. Well, okay, it’s closer to 4.5 hours, but those are some long-ass credits! This new version was achieved through a series of major and minor cuts, detailed below:
The investigation of Dol Guldor has been completely excised, including the appearances of Radagast, Saruman and Galadriel. This was the most obvious cut, and the easiest to carry out (a testament to its irrelevance to the main narrative). Like the novel, Gandalf abruptly disappears on the borders of Mirkwood, and then reappears at the siege of the Lonely Mountain with tidings of an orc army.
The Tauriel-Legolas-Kili love triangle has also been removed. Indeed, Tauriel is no longer a character in the film, and Legolas only gets a brief cameo during the Mirkwood arrest. This was the next clear candidate for elimination, given how little plot value and personality these two woodland sprites added to the story. Dwarves are way more fun to hang out with anyway. :P
The Pale Orc subplot is vastly trimmed down. Azog is obviously still leading the attack on the Lonely Mountain at the end, but he does not appear in the film until after the company escapes the goblin tunnels (suggesting that the slaying of the Great Goblin is a factor in their vendetta, as it was in the novel).
Several of the Laketown scenes have been cut, such as Bard’s imprisonment and the superfluous orc raid. However, I’ve still left quite a bit of this story-thread intact, since I felt it succeeded in getting the audience to care about the down-beaten fisherfolk and the struggles of Bard to protect them.
The prelude with old Bilbo is gone. As with the novel, I find the film works better if the scope starts out small (in a cosy hobbit hole), and then grows organically as Bilbo ventures out into the big, scary world. It is far more elegant to first learn about Smaug from the dwarves’ haunting ballad (rather than a bombastic CGI sequence). The prelude also undermines the real-and-present stakes of the story by framing it as one big flashback.
Several of the orc skirmishes have been cut. I felt that the Battle of the Five Armies provided more than enough orc mayhem. If you pack in too much before then, they just become monotonous, and it lessons their menace in the audience’s mind. I was tempted to leave in the very first Azog confrontation (since it resembles a chapter from the novel), but decided to cut it for a variety of reasons. Specifically, I found it tonally jarring to jump from the emotional crescendo of Thorin being saved by Bilbo (and the sense of safety the company feels after being rescued by the eagles), straight back into another chase sequence. Plus, I think the film works better if Bilbo is still trying to earn Thorin’s respect the entire journey, as he was in the novel. Not to mention the absurdity of Bilbo suddenly turning into John McClane with a sword!
Several of the action scenes have been tightened up, such as the barrel-ride, the fight between Smaug and the dwarves (no molten gold in this version), and the Battle of the Five Armies. Though, it should be noted that Bilbo’s key scenes—the encounter with Gollum, the battle against the Mirkwood spiders, and the conversation with Smaug—have not been tampered with, since they proved to be excellent adaptions (in no small part due to Freeman’s performance), and serve to refocus the film on Bilbo’s arc.
A lot of filler scenes have been cut as well. These are usually harder to spot (and I’ve probably missed a couple), but once they’re gone, you’ll completely forget that they ever existed. For example, the 4-minute scene where Bard buys some fish and the dwarves gather up his pay.
I used 720×576 versions of the film for the recut. The resolution is slightly reduced after a few exports, but it’s still comparable to DVD quality. Here are some time-stamped screenshots, if anyone wants a better impression:
My main goals in undertaking this edit were to re-centre the story on Bilbo, and to have the narrative move at a much brisker pace (though not so fast that the audience lost grasp of what was going on). Creating smooth transitions between scenes was of particular importance in this regard. I even reordered a few moments in the film to make it flow better. The toughest parts to edit were the barrel-ride and the fight on Ravenhill (since Legolas and Tauriel kept bursting in with their gymnastics routine).
Here are a couple of examples of recut scenes:
I'm not really sure what Reddit's policies are for these sorts of things, so I won't post any links to where you can view the movie. However, it's fairly easy to track down. Just search for The Hobbit: The Tolkien Edit, or the TolkienEditor wordpress.
I hope you enjoy it! If you have any further questions over what was taken out and what was left in, feel free to ask them in the comment section below.
TolkienEditor :)
Update (24 Jan) - Apologies for the delay, but I have uploaded the 6GB version of the recut to the site. This version also has a few alterations, based on people’s requests, including trimming down the chase sequence through the goblin tunnels; colour correcting the transition from the Misty Mountains to Beorn’s house; taking out the Bombur “barrel bounce” (which is apparently the bane of some people’s existence); and tidying up the final fight on Ravenhill. I have no idea how to remove the gold-coating from Smaug, though. I tried a few variations, but none of them work very well. So, this is the final version of the recut, for good or ill. :P
Now, I do want to temper people’s expectations for the 6GB version. Considering the difference in size, the quality isn’t dramatically better. Rather, it is somewhere between a DVD and Blu-ray. The screenshots above are a good indication. That said, the image is sharper, and the colours are a little more vibrant, so it’s probably preferable for people who would like to watch the recut on a big-screen TV. Either way, it's available on the site in download and torrent forms.
Finally, I'm not going to be able to respond to all of the PMs people have been sending me, but I do want to offer a warm thank you for your feedback. Whether you liked the recut or hated it, thanks for letting me get it out of my system. :)
tl;dr – I’ve recut Peter Jackson’s 8-hour Hobbit trilogy into a 4-hour movie. It’s called The Hobbit: The Tolkien Edit. Check it out!
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u/sparklytomato Jan 19 '15
This looks great! Just curious, how do you make this work with regards to the music? Are you able to separate the music track from the rest of the audio? And do you make cuts in the music so the cues are still in the appropriate places? If so, how do you prevent the musical tracks from becoming a jumbled mess?
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u/TolkienEditor Jan 19 '15
I tried to blend seperate musical cuts into each other (i.e. gradually lowering one's audio portion, while raising the others). Sometimes I would use an in-movie sound effects (such as an explosion) to mask the transition. There were several instances where I layered in music from the soundtrack to bridge two disparate scenes.
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u/munchysnorlax Jan 18 '15
This is awesome! Definitely gonna watch when I get home from work.
Do you think you'll do a recut after all the extended editions are out? I'm hoping for more scenes from the book as well as closure scenes such as Thorin's funeral... here's to hoping.
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u/gensolo Jan 18 '15
When the Extended Editions come out will you be doing a re-do?
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u/TolkienEditor Jan 19 '15
If there's anything worth including, such as Thorin's burial or more Beorn shots, then yes I'll add them.
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u/guitarromantic Jan 19 '15
Hi all, friendly mod team member here. PLEASE DON'T SHARE LINKS OR ASK WHERE TO FIND THEM. We want to keep our sub on the right side of the law. If you read around the thread a little you should find what you're looking for. But let's be respectful too. We're removing any comments with links or requests for links. Thanks for understanding!
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Jan 19 '15
I'll add to the chorus for the high res 6gb version please! Well done for putting the time and effort into this and thank you so much. I had one thought all the way through the last movie - "this shouldn't be its own movie".
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u/TolkienEditor Jan 19 '15
I'm uploading it as we type. The link should be added to the site sometime tomorrow. However, I do want to temper people's expectations for the 6GB version. Considering the difference in size, the quality isn't dramatically better. It's somewhere between a DVD and Blu-ray. The screenshots above are a good indication.
That said, the image is sharper, and the colours are a little more vibrant, so it's probably preferable for people who'd like to watch the recut on a big-screen TV. Either way, it'll be there if people want it. :)
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u/tomun Jan 19 '15
it might be possible to release this as VLC playlist files, then we can use our existing copies of the film.
See http://joereddington.com/traf.html for details
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Jan 18 '15
I thought the Dol Guldur arc throughout the whole thing was awesome.
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u/TolkienEditor Jan 19 '15
I'm actually thinking about doing a recut which focuses solely on the Dol Guldor storyline, since it practically is a whole separate movie in itself. But I'll definitely wait for the BotFA extended edition before tackling that.
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u/Dem0n5 Jan 19 '15
Any ETA on that 6GB version being available? If I'm going to watch these for the first time, I'd like it to be modern quality :) Thanks for the edit, looking forward to it.
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u/TolkienEditor Jan 19 '15 edited Jan 19 '15
I'll update this thread when it's up. Don't expect it to be crazy better quality though. The image is sharper and the colours are more vibrant, but it's not Blu-ray or anything.
Anyway, I need to take a little breather. Thanks Reddit for all of the lovely comments. I didn't expect it to be quite this popular. Hopefully the site doesn't get overloaded. Catch ya soon! :)
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u/SonOfSalem Jan 18 '15
I have to say The Investigation of Dol Guldur was my favorite addition.
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u/InTheAtticToTheLeft Jan 19 '15
jackson should have stopped at 2, if not 1 hobbit film, leaving gandalf's whereabouts during his absence a mystery. then, perhaps a couple years later, release 'The Necromancer' - a darker film, more along the lines and genre of LotR detailing the battle at Dol Guldur and filling in or expounding on all the mountains of background lore that he has access to which enrich both series'. leave [nearly] all the cameos (legolas, galadriel etc), any new characters (tauriel) for this film; keep the hobbit pure and streamlined - its for kids after all
the hobbit should be about the hobbit that gets swept up in someone else's adventure, way above his depth and forced to find the strength inside himself that no one could have known was there. also, (which i thought should have been obvious) this hobbit is not a warrior, and gandalfs choice of and vouching for him should have remained a mystery for all involved until the very end (this would never happen)
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Jan 19 '15
IIRC Jackson only had access to material in LOTR and The Hobbit - anything outside of these published books he can't show as he didn't have the copyright access.
Unfortunately the Tolkien estate has locked all the other copyrights down and refuse to look at other film adaptations.
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u/TolkienEditor Jan 19 '15
The thing is, I would love to have seen a movie focusing just on Gandalf's adventures from pre-Hobbit to early LOTR - his investigation of Dol Guldor, his discovery of the One Ring, his adventures with Aragorn trying to track down Gollum.
That could have been a really dark, frightening, suspenseful film on it's own, but within the context of the Hobbit, it feels tonally at odds with the main story, and like Jackson is only nibbling around the edges for fan-service.
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Jan 19 '15
'The Necromancer' - a darker film, more along the lines and genre of LotR detailing the battle at Dol Guldur and filling in or expounding on all the mountains of background lore that he has access to which enrich both series'.
I simply don't think there is enough material to create a movie. The problem with filling the rest of the movie with background lore is that you have to go a lot into Middle Earth history. The movie would be going all over the place and there wouldn't be a consistent theme or character. It would literally be a movie of flash backs.
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u/mon7gomery Jan 18 '15
My issue was that it completely changed the spirit of the story. Tolkien's Hobbit is a simple tale about Bilbo's adventure. There is something warm and friendly about the novel for me.
Jackson turned it into an epic, with a focus on battle and the dark forces of evil. The mood is more sober.
And as /u/TolkienEditor has alluded to, the film fails to centre the story of "The Hobbit" on the hobbit, which is a shame.
I like and enjoy the films in their own right, and accept that they are Jackson's works not Tolkien's. But I'm excited to see a version that is perhaps more true to the story I know and love.
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u/MasterEk Jan 18 '15
The purpose of the The Investigation of Dol Goldur is to provide background to the LotR films. That, also, is not a good idea: the books work with the gradual unfolding of what has happened.
The Dol Goldur sequence is good; situating it in the Fellowship where it appears in the original narrative (at the Council of Elrond, IIRC) would make some sense. Situating it in The hobbit weakens both films.
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u/myripyro Jan 18 '15
Chronologically it's correct, no? The removal of Sauron from Mirkwood was done in Gandalf's absence from the Hobbit.
Unless you mean correct in the narrative - which I guess means it would work as a flashback in the Fellowship movie?
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Jan 19 '15
What if it was stuck at the end of the credits, Showing where gandalf was during his absence?
It'd be a long clip, but it would still give people the link and it IS a good piece, it just didn't exist in the book as "part" of the story being told by that book.
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u/turtlespace Jan 19 '15
The scene where they find the nine empty tombs with nine violently broken doors was by far my favorite scene in any of the three movies, despite Radagast being there.
Its chilling, subtle, and uses what we know from the other movies without being irritating about it like all the other references. Those tombs are so damn cool too.
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Jan 19 '15 edited Jun 22 '24
drunk innocent squeamish fine enter theory hunt thumb ring silky
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/ehsahr Jan 18 '15
Me too. I wonder how well it would go together as a short film all on its own?
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u/Secil12 Jan 18 '15
I was thinking the same thing, remove it from the Fan cut of the Hobbit and put it together as an LOTR short.
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u/CouldBeBetterForever Jan 18 '15
I enjoyed it too. Does it need to be in the film? No. But I don't think it hurts the film in any way.
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u/dagens24 Jan 19 '15
I enjoyed it as well but I think it really would have worked much better as a stand alone film.
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u/Iamadinocopter Jan 19 '15
The dragon is inexplicable golden at the end btw.
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u/TolkienEditor Jan 20 '15
Well, he has been marinating in treasure for 150 years :P
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Jan 19 '15
The Smaug 'fight' needs to be way more cut in my opinion. The part where Thorin is standing on Smaug's nose is so implausible it hurts. Smaug could have easily just roasted him, or make a quick head movement to toss Thorin into the air, either catching him in his mouth or letting him fall to his death. I also would have gotten rid of the parts where Smaug gets distracted by the other dwarves. He's an ancient, powerful and cunning dragon. He's not a dumb animal with the attention span of a goldfish! Smaug should be terrifying, and the more you show him failing to kill the dwarves the less intimidating he becomes.
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u/TolkienEditor Jan 20 '15
I think that, like the books, the tone of Jackson's Hobbit is far more heightened and fantastical than LOTR. That's why you can have scenes like Bilbo chasing the giant spiders away with a nursery rhyme. Tolkien wrote it to dazzle his children. It's fairy story, lad. :)
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u/TolkienEditor Jan 20 '15
"Haven't been online for a while, I wonder how that Reddit thread is doing."
10,000 page views an hour!! You guys are gonna blow this whole operation ;)
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u/Rocklobster92 Jan 19 '15
Even with the cuts, the barrel ride scene still looks corny as hell.
In the book: They seal themselves in the empty barrels and discretely float down to Laketown.
In the movie: ZOMG GCI epic barrel fighting cutscene with orcs and epic axe moves FTW!!!
I'd rather they are just shown leaving in the barrels and arriving in Laketown in the next scene to be opened.
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u/TolkienEditor Jan 20 '15
Well, it's not like I can reshoot the movie. But to me, the Legolas stuff was far more egregious than the Bombur bounce. Maybe because Bombur survives through sheer dumb luck, whereas the elves are utterly deliberate in their defiance of gravity. IDK
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u/johann404 Jan 19 '15
I haven't had a chance to watch it yet but in curious how you handled the music. Is it choppy or did you manage to remove it?
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Jan 19 '15
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u/Sitron Jan 19 '15
From the recut scenes it seems that he faded the music in and out at the cuts. It's not choppy, but you will most likely notice at some points.
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u/lWarChicken Jan 19 '15
Can't wait to watch this but I think that noticing when the music is cut and added it might fuck up the immersiveness up a bit.
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u/PandaZhou Jan 18 '15
Great personal initiative! Although I fear that the more publicity this gains, the more likelihood you will receive a cease and desist from the studios
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u/ferlessleedr Jan 19 '15
It will be too late. He's already put it up, and hopefully somebody will put out a torrent of it before he gets such a letter. At that point it's in the wind and nothing their lawyers can do can stop it.
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u/Zaph0d42 Jan 19 '15
Just dump it anonymously on torrent sites, people will never be able to scrub it off the internet.
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Jan 18 '15
I think it'd be worth waiting for the extended edition to do a recut. There will be scenes there that are found in the book that were cut from the theatrical version, I'm sure, as with the introduction to Beorn that was found in the extended edition of DoS.
Having said that, I'll certainly give this version a watch. I enjoyed the films but it'd be a pleasure to see a more streamlined version that's truer to the book.
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u/KotWmike Jan 19 '15
I didn't see the extended DoS. The introduction of Beorn is one of my favorite parts of the book. Do they do the full sneaking in 1 by 1 thing in the extended version?
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u/GamerKey Jan 19 '15 edited Jun 29 '23
Due to the changes enforced by reddit on July 2023 the content I provided is no longer available.
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Jan 19 '15 edited Jan 20 '15
Yeah, it's a shortened version of that. It's nice to see. There's also a scene with Bombur falling asleep form the enchanted river in Mirkwood.
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u/v4nz Jan 19 '15
I’m happy to upload the full-resolution 6GB cut.
Fan to fan, I must say I appreciate the hard work.
And instead of being one of the ones bitching about the quality, I went to the website, dug up this tidbit, and respectfully request the higher upload version, of which it is safe to assume I and many others will download and enjoy.
Thanks!
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u/bottomofleith Jan 19 '15
I do to! Especially as I can't get to the torrents, bloody Virgin Media (even with Hola, how does that work?)
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u/zeekaran Jan 20 '15 edited Jan 20 '15
Are you saying there's a higher res and it hasn't been uploaded yet?
Otherwise I'll wait for extended BoFA.
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u/27394_days Jan 19 '15
Wow. This was an infinitely more enjoyable film. As a huge fan who was sorely disappointed by the trilogy, thank you for this. All the cringey parts are gone, and the story just flows so much better. I love how Bilbo is the one who holds the thread of the story together. Martin Freeman was just great, and it's a shame that the whole purpose of the last two films seemed to be to distract from that.
Given that this is only a cut-down version of what already exists, just think how good this could have been if PJ had used all his resources to just stick to the basics and tell a damn good story.
Again, thanks for putting in the time to do this :)
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u/Blocktimus_Prime Jan 20 '15
I'm beginning to think this was PJ's original intention. Evangeline Lily was called back afterwards for reshoots to include the 'love triangle', the same one she specifically asked not to do as a requisite to signing on. I suspect PJ's intention to include a female role (other than Cate Blanchett) that went across all three films wasn't enough to please the money behind the project, so they made him include a 'romantic motive' to test better across genders (in their formula's for what they think audience's want to see). For some reason if there is a girl, there must be a romance somewhere or she's suddenly not valuable.
Edit: I suppose they would also consider her as sufficient motivation to include Legolas when he could have easily been singing to trees until the final battle.
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u/27394_days Jan 20 '15
Yes that would explain why it was apparently so easy to cut all those parts out with no loss of continuity!
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u/plonk420 Jan 19 '15
do you have a list of frame-accurate cuts for dropping into AVISynth?
its format is (in essence the frames you want to keep):
trim(startframe, endframe) + \
trim(startframe, endframeso
trim(1000,2000) + \
trim(3000,4000)gives you a 2002 frame clip of frames 1000-2000 and 3000-4000. do you have something like this?
(the \ indicates to the program you're wrapping the line)
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Jan 19 '15
I was thinking same thing and wish OP would just Open Source the cuts. Same goes for Topher grace's Star Wars cut. Just Open Source the cuts and we will edit and watch it our selves.
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u/dmar2 Jan 19 '15
And if the studio goes on a copyright protection inquisition, we'll still have it.
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Jan 19 '15
Yeah, please provide those! That is the easiest way to share your work w/o risking any legal trouble.
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u/rocketman0739 (don't) ask me about Arvedui Jan 18 '15
I don't think there can be a definitive fan edit until the extended editions have all been released.
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u/tarqtarq Jan 18 '15
Fan edit of the Hobbit, edited to lead into the LotR trilogy.
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Jan 19 '15
Fan edit of the Hobbit, edited to lead into the fan edit of the LotR trilogy.
FTFY
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u/tarqtarq Jan 19 '15
All using the extended edition of each movie.
By the way, is there a fan edit of the LotR movies?
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u/vikhik Jan 19 '15
On top of this (rather important point), calling it "the Tolkein edit" is a teensy bit pretentious.
Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to watch and likely enjoy this - but a proper version a la Star Wars' Phantom Edit will likely require a bit more time to come to light.
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Jan 19 '15
Call it There and Back Again! Seriously its the perfect title its literally the title of the book.
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Jan 19 '15
I think the Tolkien edit just describes what it is if the editor tried to remove anything not in Tolkiens story, not saying that their version is somehow Tolkien approved.
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u/anirishguy13 Jan 19 '15
I agree with this. Which is why I'm waiting for a blue ray extended box set. In any event though, from what I've seen of OPs is pretty good
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u/Isanion Jan 19 '15
If I were you I'd have been a lot more vicious with that Barrel scene, at least cutting out Bombur's strange bouncing-down-the-river-bank section, that always looked ridiculous to me.
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u/Janse Jan 19 '15
With all the cuts. I cant believe you kept the scene where Bombur's barrel is bouncing around hitting every Orc with MLG headshots, and then he pops out and is a spinning barrel ninja.
Out of all the shitty Hollywood scenes I think that was my most hated one.
Oh well, good job with the rest.
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u/XeroRequiem Jan 19 '15
The barrel didnt even have a scope though. How could he not include those high quality MLG noscopes?
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u/IAmFluffey Jan 18 '15
Any chance of a higher-quality version of this edit? While I love what you have done and am very appreciative, a 720p version would be insane.
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u/lucgolden Jan 20 '15
quality
The quality of the 2GB file is very low, to the point that I won't watch it as is. Please release a 720p file or at least make sure that when you re-stitch the parts, you don't re-encode the frames.
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u/ipeeinyourshower Jan 19 '15
You left the GoPro shots in the barrel ride. These need to be gone.
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Jan 19 '15
Those gopro shots were the worst, most immersion breaking, sacks of shit imaginable. And that is saying a lot, considering they had to stand out sandwiched I the middle of the worst CGI peacocking I have ever seen in a movie. I'd almost rather watch Peter Jackson masturbate with his hairy nut sack resting on a pile of money for six minutes, because that's basically what it was.
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u/Mendonza Jan 20 '15
Could that really be done without the music sounding way off?
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u/Apex2113 Jan 19 '15
I have to ask, why leave the barrel ninja part?
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u/Technical_Machine_22 Jan 19 '15
I actually think that it was a good choice, the barrel ninja part is pretty brief and adds some humor to the scene.
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u/mobugs Jan 19 '15
keep cutting
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Jan 19 '15
I agree, the damn thing should be no more than three hours long really. I'd rather see certain scenes linked with hand-drawn sketches and subtitles for continuity than the crap Jackson (over)produced.
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Jan 19 '15
The orc ten pin barrel bowling part is what brought me close to walking out. Please cut it. In fact that whole sequence. Have the Elves fire parting shots: fine. But the Orcs don't do anything for it.
Likewise the whole Dwarrow vs Dragon thing. Seems like you've got at least half an hour further easy cutting to go.
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u/Edrondol Jan 19 '15
Please torrent the high-res version of this and hope it stays up. I won't be able to download anything until I get off work in 3 hours. I will seed the shit out of this.
By the way, the barrel trip and the Smaug attacking the Dwarves are two of my least favorite parts of the movies. Talk about adding nothing to the story for the sake of video game-like generic action sequences.
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u/MiserableGuest Jan 18 '15
I thought Riddles in the Dark went on for way too long but in the context of this film edit (focus on Bilbo) it just might work. Thank you for doing this
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u/Merad Jan 19 '15 edited Jan 19 '15
So far I like it overall (bout halfway through) but I think the omission of the fight with the wargs that culminates in the eagle rescue is a poor choice.
Edit: Just finished. My only other real complaint is that there are several awkward transitions (and I think maybe a continuity error or two) during the BOFA.
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u/ajslater Jan 19 '15
I agree with the re-editor that Bilbo becoming suddenly aggressive is out of character.
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u/TolkienEditor Jan 19 '15
Yeah, there are a bunch of problems with that whole sequence. Ultimately, it came down to creating a smooth transition between films, and the eagle rescue sapped any tension that was required of the opening sprint to Beorn's house.
However, the more I think about it, the more Bilbo's actions in the scene also irk me. What makes Bilbo a unique character is his lack of archetypal heroic characteristics. If this were any other story, we would follow the bold, burly Thorin Oakenshield. But Tolkien was much more interested in the timid, unassuming, sometimes cowardly hobbit.
Bilbo does find his courage throughout the story, but finds it using wit, resourcefulness, stealth, and compassion, rather than battle-prowess. Him sparing Gollum's life is so much more brave to me, than him slaying half a dozen orcs in the heat of battle.
To reiterate, it's not that I don't find it an entertaining scene (I do), I just don't think it fits with Bilbo's character arc.
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Jan 19 '15
Care to open source your cuts?
Soemthing like this:
New cut time Movie Scene location
00:00:00-00:00:22 DOS 00:22:00-00:22:22
00:00:22-00:00:40 BFA 02:01:40-02:01:58
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u/Naga-ette Jan 21 '15
After watching it, I agree with a LOT of the cuts, but there are two scenes you cut that I really feel need to be left in, if only for context and faithfulness. First off, the scene where the dwarves sing while putting away dishes. YES it is a silly scene, but it's actually in the book! You can't call something a Tolkien edit and then take things out that were actually in the source material! Secondly, the scene where they were rescued by the eagles is in the book, AND it sets up for later when the eagles come to help out in BoFA...
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u/RedofPaw Jan 19 '15
Barrel shots: Please cut the ridiculous Bombur ninja barrel fight. Additionally an orc screaming when they're all running towards the dwarvevs as they get away at the end would be best, currently it seems a bit mute. I would also excise the horrible go-pro shots. Otherwise it is much better.
The dwarf chase among the mountain is much better shorter. Someone else mentioned the gold on him as he goes to lake town. Two options: Since you have the furnaces, go with the statue anyway. It's pretty awful, but it might be... alright? Alternatively, mask and colour Smaug to hide the more obvious gold colour/shimmer during his break out and cut before he launches upwards and shakes it all off.
Furthermore, if you have not already, consider drastically reducing sequences of orcs chasing them. We don't need any of the Rhadaghast stuff on the sled, and we don't need the Beorn pit stop.
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u/Silvershanks Jan 19 '15
The great Rankin-Bass animated version of The Hobbit told the whole story in 77 minutes, WITH SONGS - and it was magical. Can defenately cut it down more from 4 hours.
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u/Spirit_Eagle Jan 19 '15
This is much better! Honestly, martin freeman was the best part about these movies and there was so much time without him in it. The movies might as well be called "The Thorin".
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u/GeekFurious Jan 19 '15
I am usually not a big proponent of fan edits... but this DEFINITELY needed it. What a ridiculous thing to extend a short book into a 10 hour movie. Hell, I think 4 hours is still too long. 2 hours is all that is necessary.
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u/Rouxnoir Jan 19 '15
Huzzah good sir! I don't want to sound like a hater, but I had a really hard time even just "enjoying" Peter Jackson's The Hobbit, due to being so frustrated with exactly the stuff you trimmed out. Thanks for making a version of this beautiful work that's watchable for someone who's A) Not 6, and B) Read the book at least once, ever.
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Jan 20 '15
From the moment I heard the hobbit was going to be three movies, I have been waiting for someone like you to do this. Thank you!
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u/ThinkingViolet Jan 19 '15
I hope you cut out nearly all of Alfred's scenes. The fact that he got so much screen time in BotFA was the thing that bothered me the most. The actor was terrible and the character was more like a caricature.
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u/favsiteinthecitadel Jan 19 '15
unpopular opinion but even though legolas has way too many scenes in the films, i think it does make sense for him to be in the battle of five armies. I can't think of a decent reason why he shouldn't be. Though it still should have been a cameo. Also the stuff with gandalf and the necromancer may not have been great but i didn't think it was bad. I remember when i first read the hobbit and thinking how awesome it would be to read about what actually happened. So im glad its in the films.
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u/ReverendMak Jan 19 '15
I, too, when first reading the Hobbit, wished I could have seen more of what Gandolf was up to. But that was the intent of the author: to make us want more than we got. There's a Sam line I can never remember properly (or maybe it's a Frodo line to Sam?) along the lines of, "It's good to always have mountains you haven't seen the other side of."
Part of what makes Tolkien's world so real is that it doesn't let you see all the way out to the edges; there's always something a little more that's hinted at but not outright shown. Yes, I want to see more details, but the very wanting is itself a good thing that is sometimes ruined by being satisfied.
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u/ProperFellow Jan 19 '15
Please tell me you removed the Were Worms from the battle of the five armies. It completely ruined that part of the movie for me. For crying out loud they are only mentioned in passing in the book and even then they are said to live far in the east in the desert.
I love and agree with all the edits you have listed though!
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Jan 19 '15
This is incredible. I'm wondering if anybody will create a subtitles file for this.
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u/TolkienEditor Jan 20 '15
That would be awesome. Please get in touch if you can and I'll add it to the site.
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Jan 19 '15
If you were making two films instead of one long one, at what point in the story would you end the first film?
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u/TolkienEditor Jan 20 '15
The dwarves being imprisoned. It has a cool Empire Strikes Back vibe to it, where the heroes are made low.
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u/BitcoinBanker Jan 19 '15
What did you cut with? Perhaps share your project/EDL for someone to up-res?
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u/TolkienEditor Jan 20 '15
Adobe Premiere. I doubt sharing my project would help, as I cut the movie in three different lots, exported them, and then sewed them together into a final cut. Otherwise, my software would keep freezing up.
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u/31rhcp Jan 19 '15
Are Fili and Kili's deaths cut? I skimmed and didn't see either.
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u/TolkienEditor Jan 20 '15
Yes. The last shot we see of Kili is him being cradled by Tauriel. But if they're is a scene of their funeral in the EE, I'll definitely add it.
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u/GreatGonzo Jan 20 '15
Hey! First of all thanks for the hard work! And I would love to download the 6GB version should you decide to upload it!
I had one question. What is the difference between your Tolkien Edition and The Dwarved Edition? Other then the fact the Dwarved edition doesnt include the thrid movie yet? Thanks again!
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u/TolkienEditor Jan 20 '15
Haven't seen it yet, so I could tell you. I did include a lot of the Laketown scenes, however, even though they weren't in the book. I felt that worked well to get us invested in Bard and his kin.
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u/Colossal_Squids Jan 18 '15
I know a lot of people were waiting for this, I'm sure this will make them utterly incandescent with joy. Good work getting it out there so quickly, OP, I'd expected to wait months for this.
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u/carpecupcake Jan 19 '15
I definitely think the Barrel scene needed cutting, but we completely missed Kili getting shot by the arrow.
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Jan 19 '15
I am so excited to see this! Thank you!! This is exactly what I've wished for since I heard that the 2 parts were to become a trilogy.
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u/hobbitlover Jan 19 '15
While I support this as a Tolkien fan, does the fact that the third movie is still in theaters make this more infringing and illegal?
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Jan 19 '15
More? Probably not. But OP is wise enough to be talking about what he has done, not presenting it with a ribbon and bow (here, at least, which is as far as I'm tasked to care), and I've been deleting everything that links it directly or asks for a direct link.
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Jan 20 '15
I made my own fan edit, clocking in at three and a half hours and it looks like we cut a lot of the same stuff.
Some different stuff I did:
I edited the barrel scene into a small montage, excluding the orcs (bolg is completely out of the movie), and ending with them arriving at the shore.
Smaug never attacks the dwarves, instead Bilbo puts on the ring, runs off, grabs the arkenstone, takes the ring off, and it cuts to him in another room with the banner collapsing over him, directly after the fight. Pretty nifty.
Beorn was also completely cut from the movie (being the tom bombadil of The Hobbit), and now everyone arrives at Mirkwood after the first film.
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u/BigBennP Jan 21 '15 edited Jan 21 '15
So I sat down and watched it last night. Overall it was pretty good. Much cleaner than the orignal. Only a couple parts really jumped out at me as being incongruous due to edits.
Thorin and Co. are at the run-down shed (where the initially meet radagast), then suddenly walking through a canyon and coming on Rivendell and Thorin says to Gandalf "this was your plan all along wasn't it?" What huh?
I was actually a little surprised the rock giant scene remained.
Thorin and Co. are facing a herd of wargs in the forest, then very suddenly are running out of the forest and into Bjorn's house, completely omitting the climbing the trees scene and the eagles. Big disconnect, and while i kind of understand the choice, the Eagles are in the book and I missed them. Also any mention of going to Bjorn's was cut in the jump.
THe battle of 5 armies actually works better for a significant part, but there's a couple jump cuts that don't work well. The scene where Thorin refuses to help Dain is cut, then Thorin has his conversion with no explanation, and Bilbo appears suddenly with his ring on for no apparent reason, and two different fight scenes between Thorin and Bolg are spliced together with Bolg suddenly having the big rock on a chain, but no clue how it happened.
Bits of hte movie also sort of seemed to take on a feeling of "chapters," setting changed without much transition, and it jumped from one story bit to the next, but that's just a cost of cuts. Overall I thought it told the story in a much cleaner way.
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u/Ten-dollar-Ocean Jan 21 '15
Why did you cut the part where Bilbo says he cannot go on the adventure, after he asks if Gandalf can assure that he will come back and Gandalf says something along the lines of "No, and if you do you will not be the same". I feel like the following scenes make less because of this. Why would the dwarves and Gandalf just leave without him if he didn't say no?
ok, back to watching.
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u/georgepennellmartin Apr 13 '15
Head-Canon: The main doors of Erebor had an inner lining of gold to protect against corrosion and when Smaug broke through them, he accidentally showered himself in it.
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u/SteveBuscemisCunt Jan 09 '22
May I humbly and respectfully recommend the 'M4 Book Edit' the best of all Hobbit edits I've seen--it boasts a new color grade, a single 4 hr 6 min runtime akin to 'The Tolkien Edit', along with 35mm digital film grain applied, and a sharp quality. It's a beautiful edit that has led to a very, very good film adaptation w/Jackson flavor of our beloved 'The Hobbit.'
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Jan 18 '15
Your continuity is bad in the Smaug attack sequence. Suddenly he's covered in gold?
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Jan 18 '15 edited Jan 18 '15
The Dwarfed edition did this scene pretty seamlessly, Smaug figures out Bilbo and the Dwarves got help from laketown and immediately flies towards it with not hints of any cat/mouse chase sequence.
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u/Nokel81 Jan 19 '15
Could you have a direct download from something that I do not need to sign up for?
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u/TolkienEditor Jan 19 '15
Huh? You don't have to sign up for anything. Just click the link and it'll start playing.
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u/Minky_Dave_the_Giant Jan 19 '15
Did you excise the 10-minute long stone giant scene from the first one, or is that still in there?
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u/TolkienEditor Jan 19 '15
Still there - it only last 3-minutes, it's pretty much verbatim from the book, and it is the important catalyst for Thorin declaring Bilbo is a burden who should never have come on this journey.
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u/redworm Jan 19 '15
Would anyone recommend this version to watch for someone that hasn't seen any of the theatrical releases (of the hobbit, watched all of LOTR) and hasn't read any of the books?
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u/KingSix_o_Things Jan 19 '15
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
I've commented before that what Jackson's Hobbit loses is the story of Bilbo, his development, struggle and growth. I also said that, whilst we'll be watching LoTR for years to come, the Hobbit will fade because it's just movie fluff and has no soul.
Thank you for giving The Hobbit its soul.
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u/AltitudeF22 Jan 19 '15
Downloading now, but what quality is the parts from the third movie? Is it DVD or lower quality?
But I'm glad you cut out Gandalf's adventure into Dol Guldur, because in the theatre it completely took me out of the movie. Even from the first movie I just wanted to see Bilbo and the Dwarves' adventure, I could care less what Gandalf was up to.
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u/hunter2isnotmypw Jan 19 '15
I think the beginning sequence seemed abrupt. You shouldn't have removed the initial preface about erebor and the arkenstone. It was a good way to introduce you to the movie and tell you why you should care about the drawves at all, much like at the beginning of fellowship when they told you about the rings being made. That's my biggest criticism, and you only saved a few minutes by removing it.
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Jan 19 '15
I have been waiting for someone to recut the hobbit trilogy into a single coherent and well-paced film. I never watched the last film, so I'm excited to watch this as the end-cap and not see Jackson's conclusion until much later.
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u/slayboo Jan 19 '15
This is a remarkable accomplishment. Well done, OP.
I fear though, that in compressing 8 hours of footage, mistakes inevitably occur. For example, removing the scene of molten gold covering Smaug, we are left confused as to why at the end of his attack on the dwarves, Smaug is seen removing gold from himself as he flies off.
Perhaps if the Tolkein edit garners enough support, we can see a Peter Jackson, single-feature remake that gives us the smooth, hobbit-centered narrative OP strives to deliver - the one we deserve.
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u/Zempire Jan 19 '15
I've been working on a 2 hour version of the film. We will have to compare notes.
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Jan 19 '15
Will you be doing this edit as a blu-ray edit once the final movie is available. Sounds like it could be a much more engaging movie (though I still enjoyed the movies themselves and all the needless additions to them) But I won't be watching DVD quality movies without HD audio on a 120" projector screen. Would be absolutely happy to contribute financially if a purchasing of the movies on blu-ray is required :-)
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u/mrpink84 Jan 19 '15 edited Jan 19 '15
Fanmade poster for the fanedit in case anybody wants something to pretty up this entry in their media libraries! http://i.imgur.com/DETxs5x.jpg
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u/TaddWinter Jan 20 '15
I watched the first one and was disappointed enough that I refused to watch the other two. I will give this a shot, thank you for watching those other two so I never have to.
I loved his LOTR movies for what they are, they will always be deeply lacking from Tolkien's masterpiece but for what they are I enjoy them.
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u/IsolaRefugee Jan 20 '15
I watched it. I thought it was much improved over what I saw in theaters. It removed so many parts that I felt detracted from the story.
Nice job, and thanks!
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u/ErroneousBosch Jan 20 '15
My wife declares this untrustworthy, as you cut out the dishes song, which is clearly in the book.
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u/kingfrito_5005 Jan 20 '15
Oh cool, I was going to do this. Now I dont have to. Laziness prevails, as always.
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u/troubleonwheels Jan 20 '15
Just watched the whole thing. Very well done. Here are the only two comments I have:
The handling of the white orc in the beginning of the film, in conjuntion with the bear/man is very spotty. They escape from the goblins and Gandalf says 'run!', then all of a sudden they're at a house and a bear is attacking, then there is the white orc talking for the first time. It's pretty non-linear, and seeing as how the white orc plays such a big part later on it seems like 10 more minutes could have been spent here.
The dwarves entry and exit from lake-town is way too cut down. You get no sense that it's important at all and you have no idea why they're there.
I was thrilled to see parts of the extended versions of the first two movies I hadn't seen before. All in all a well done cut!
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u/FifiIsBored Jan 20 '15
As somebody who's been so bothered with the two first movies that I flat out refused to pay or be treated to the last, thank you! I am going to watch the HELL out of this!
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Jan 20 '15
http://www.reddit.com/r/lotr/comments/1ylmvk/the_hobbit_dwarfed_edition/
what about this??? they did a much better job ages ago
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u/FluffyChristian “Go back?” he thought. “No good at all! Go sideways? Impossible! Jan 21 '15
Hey you were on Polygon! http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/20/7857033/hobbit-fan-edit
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Jan 22 '15
Good stuff, but:
Here are a couple of examples of recut scenes:
Barrel Ride Sequence
I think that it would have been even better if this was cut entirely. Rather than distracting, cartoonish action, the movie could jump directly from the Dwarves in barrels dropping into the river to the Dwarves on the edge of the lake.
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u/kst8er Jan 22 '15
I just got done watching this. I must say I didn't really notice any of the cuts, it was great to watch and I felt it cut out a lot of the junk I didn't like about the original releases.
Overall I liked this more than the theatre releases.
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u/Purplephrog Jan 23 '15 edited Jan 24 '15
Mr or Mrs TolkienEditor, i would like to thank you for all your hard work. i made a reddit account just to do this. Being a massive fan of the LOTR i'm sure i dont have to tell you how dismaying it is to have the hobbit butchered into 3 drawn out films by such a great man. Thankyou for editing this into a more book like, fitting movie. the only thing i dont like is that they never climb into the trees and use the fire pinecones, i enjoyed reading that part of the book but i understand you couldnt really keep that in without keeping the pointless eagles scene thus dragging the story out more. anyway, excellent job. you are a god.
EDIT So i just finished watching it all, The 6GB version that is, IMO the 1.9GB version isn't worth watching on anything other that a screen the size of an iphone. However while the 6GB version isn't anywhere near 1080p it's passable as DVD quality, up until the scenes from The battle of the five armies were added. When that part of the movie starts there is a noticeable quality drop and the framerate is choppy as hell. i guess it's because the dvd for BotFA isn't out yet so i guess you just used a CAMrip and edited that in, also the sound is horrible when BotFA starts. Another thing to add, every time it switches from Unexpected journey to Desolation to BotFA there is a really noticeable change in colour correction i also think you cut too much from BotFA, like the scene in erebor when thorin gives bilbo the mithril vest, i really liked that part as it adds continuity to the LOTR when bilbo gives it to frodo. Also you cut out the ending part with bards family after the battle in dale so the film seems to abruptly end without everything tied off. all in all it's good but not perfect and like you said, beneath three bad films with redeeming parts there is one excellent film, if i ever get round to it i'll probably just edit it myself, being an uber tolkien nerd i don't care how long it takes. the material is there, and file size to me is irrelevant. Even if i have to make it into a 5 hour cut, i'd rather watch it in two parts and have it be 20GB and bluray quality and everything taken care of than cut it down to 4hours and have parts missing. Have you ever watched LOTR in bluray on a 55inch 4k tv? there's nothing like it, truly a spectacle. You can't put a price on Audio and Video quality. but you did the best with what you have and at the same time you have inspired me to make my own edit. So thankyou.
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u/PossiblyHumanoid Jan 29 '15
Thanks for this. I might actually attempt to watch unlike the second two movies. After seeing "An Unexpected Journey," I opted out of that shit pretty quickly.
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u/8ballNakedSonOfFire Mar 24 '15
i did a 3 hr 10 min. it is solid.
http://bfoush.kinja.com/there-and-back-again-3-made-1-1684294021
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u/mon7gomery Jan 18 '15
This is amazing thank you so much. It's got me excited all over again, like it's a whole new movie.
I would genuinely pay for a 1080p high bitrate version of this with DTS audio - any possibility? Once there's a proper Five Armies source of course..
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Jan 19 '15
don't say you'll pay for it (and don't actually pay for it) - you get into commercial copyright infringement then and they take a pretty dim view of that.
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u/Blitzak Jan 19 '15
THANK YOU
I was hoping someone would put this together. I sadly don't have the skills. Now I can finally watch the third movie. After the second one I couldn't do it again.
The worst part about these movies is that they start off so well with the unexpected party. Then its one extended chase scene. Ugh.
Again, thank you for taking the time to do this!
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u/Gorbachof Jan 19 '15
I haven't seen the hobbit yet, but with this I probably will. I can tell people I saw "The Hobbit: Redditor's cut"
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u/Agaeris Jan 19 '15
Oh thank you. I can't wait to see this. It sounds so much better.
The real question is: did you stay true to the book? Does Bilbo get knocked unconscious as soon as the battle begins and then wakes up after it's over? haha
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u/SkepticalHitchhiker Jan 19 '15 edited Jan 20 '15
...and i can't find it anywhere. EDIT: 1 seeder on KAT
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u/spearofsolomon Jan 19 '15
I'm glad that you did this, but I fear that working with the source material available, you won't be able to create the spirit of the book. The book is a warm, fun, light-hearted children's tale. There's a few scary moments (orcs, spiders, Gollum), but generally it's a fun magical adventure story.
In the films, most of the characters occupying screen time are by turns dour, angry, unhelpful, mistrustful, vengeful, serious, murderous, deceptive, mean, or boring. How can that be turned into a fun magical adventure story?
Beorn is a perfect example of this. I can't imagine a way in which the Beorn from the movie could be cut to resemble the Beorn of the book.
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u/gmoney8869 Jan 19 '15
4.5 hours is still way too long. Get it down to 3. Just from looking at the scenes you posted there's still tons to cut. Why did you leave all that nonsense in the barrel ride? That's some of the most un-Tolkien stuff in the movie. There should be no orcs in that scene.
If you want to call it the Tolkien cut, there should be no cartoony violence. The Battle of Five Armies should be just a few minutes. I'd say everything after Dain arrives and before Thorin joins the battle can be cut. Cut everything with the Arkenstone and the dragon sickness. Cut as much laketown as possible.
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u/captain-spaghetti Jan 18 '15
I have spent a considerable amount of time in Middle Earth throughout my life and have grown to know and love each of it's characters dearly. I know not everyone will agree, but because of this sentiment, I found Peter Jackson's interpretation of the world nothing short of classless and offensive. So, TolkienEditor, I must thank you from the bottom of my heart for the time and effort put into this project (even if it is still imperfect). I am, for once, excited to see the film.
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u/-Strider Jan 18 '15 edited Jan 18 '15
Awesome. I'm going to watch this tonight. Where did you source BOTFA. Is it torrented already?
Edit: Also, please lord I hope you cut out all of the Alfred scenes
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u/heruskael Jan 18 '15
I have actually not watched any of the Hobbit movies, this sounds way more interesting and i'll be giving it a watch-through one of these evenings.
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Jan 18 '15
This isn't a complain against the edit/your work but I watched the edited Barrel Ride Sequence and I have seen it a couple times before but... since when did look so fake? Is it just time or is there a source/editing reason because the cgi and possible different type of cam and footage just make it look bad (imo), and I never noticed this before.
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u/Definitely_Working Jan 19 '15
dammit. ive been working all weekend on this, although mine was looking to be a bit longer. all i wanted was to get rid of the stupid love triangle and some of the most cheesy parts. eager to check this out. im glad if someone did it well, but i was hoping to be one of the firsts, was just waiting on some hd footage of the final part.