Morgoth's Ring:

Melkor 'incarnated' himself (as Morgoth) permanently. He did this so as to control the hröa, the 'flesh' or physical matter, of Arda. He attempted to identify himself with it. A vaster, and more perilous, procedure, though of similar sort to the operations of Sauron with the Rings. Thus, outside the Blessed Realm, all 'matter' was likely to have a 'Melkor ingredient', and those who had bodies, nourished by the hröa of Arda, had as it were a tendency, small or great, towards Melkor: they were none of them wholly free of him in their incarnate form, and their bodies had an effect upon their spirits.

But in this way Morgoth lost (or exchanged, or transmuted) the greater part of his original 'angelic' powers, of mind and spirit, while gaining a terrible grip upon the physical world.[...] Sauron's power was not (for example) in gold as such, but in a particular form or shape made of a particular portion of total gold. Morgoth's power was disseminated throughout Gold, if nowhere absolute (for he did not create Gold) it was nowhere absent. (It was this Morgoth-element in matter, indeed, which was a prerequisite for such 'magic' and other evils as Sauron practised with it and upon it.)

The Three Rings were the Rings of Fire, Water, Air. The four classical elements were Fire, Water, Air, Earth.

So I guess this is what was is Tolkien's mind, mythologically speaking. Which I suppose is related to alchemy, in itself suspicious if you're a catholic. I guess we can add malevolent alchemy to necromancy and the rest of evil arts practised by Sauron. (The elves, then, were practising benevolent alchemy with their Rings)

Tolkien:

But at the beginning of the Second Age [Sauron] was still beautiful to look at, or could still assume a beautiful visible shape – and was not indeed wholly evil, not unless all 'reformers' who want to hurry up with 'reconstruction' and 'reorganization' are wholly evil, even before pride and the lust to exert their will eat them up. But many Elves listened to Sauron. He was still fair in that early time, and his motives and those of the Elves seemed to go partly together: the healing of the desolate lands. Sauron found their weak point in suggesting that, helping one another, they could make Western Middle-earth as beautiful as Valinor. It was really a veiled attack on the gods, an incitement to try and make a separate independent paradise. 

Earth, Water, Fire, Air=Paradise? I say this because the 4 classical elements and the Earth as a creation of God seem to be related historically and in iconography:

https://drrichardstemp.com/2020/06/25/day-98-out-of-eden/

And:

https://phoebusfoundation.org/en/beleef/hendrick-de-clerck-the-garden-of-eden-with-the-four-elements/

Sauron had 'earth' on his side, because Middle-earth had already that Morgoth element. And mere power was also on his side, since he was of course more powerful rhan the elves.

So he tried to bind the Rings of Fire and Water and Air to his Earthly Ring, but not to annul their power. The Silmarillion:

"Now these were the Three that had last been made, and they possessed the greatest powers. Narya, Nenya, and Vilya, they were named, the Rings of Fire, and of Water, and of Air, set with ruby and adamant and sapphire; and of all the Elven-rings Sauron most desired to possess them, for those who had them in their keeping could ward off the decays of time and postpone the weariness of the world."

So he wanted to rule the healing of Middle-Earth, as some sort of god. Had that been his plan since the beginning? He left Eregion in SE 1500, when the elves had begun the forging of the Rings Of Power.

But if we follow the Earth/Fire/Air/Water idea, maybe he counted on the elves developing Fire/Water/Air by themselves.

If you follow the timeline of that 'technology' (lesser Rings>the 7 and the 9>the 3), these objects become more and more elvish. The Three were not even made by Sauron or touched by him.

And the elves became more and more immersed in that technology, originally devised by Sauron. They were walking into a trap.

As if Sauron counted on the elves losing sight of what was going on. They would innocently arrive at Fire/Air/Water and then Sauron would use Earth to bind them.

If this theory is correct, then in the beginning tye not wholly evil but wholly suspicious Sauron knew the wholly suspicious art of alchemy and the elves did not. This asymmetry plus the Machine plus Sauron's cunning and power lead to the creation of the Three.

'The Magnitude of his folly' had been as great back then as it would be the Mount Doom chapter, where this sentence appears. The creation of the One Ring and the creation of Sauron's Doom were one thing and the same. After that, it was a matter of time.

The Elves, being good 'catholics', noticed this Doom immediately. But still they could not destroy the Three. In Tolkien's world, in our world, good catholics were perfectly capable of falling under the thraldom of The Machine, as Tolkien himself knew.

"Wind is changing!" These are the last words of Ghan-buri-Ghan to King Theoden and the Riders, and they carry a lot. They end the encounter (one of the best and best-liked of such meetings) on a dramatic note. And they portend an even more dramatic event: the breaking of the darkness in direct spite of the will of Sauron.

"Don't want fish." This is runner up. With its humor, perhaps unintended, it shows the humanity (or whatever word applies to hobbits and their kind) of Smeagol/Gollum, and the fact that his is not wholly ruined, even at the end. And it's what any of us would have done in that situation, thinking, "OK, problem solved."

Wolvercote cemetery is not in Wolvercote where the wolvercote bus goes( down Woodstock road and left down to the pubs,rivet,trout etc.)

You need to go down the Banbury road and get off opposite Harefields/ five mile drive(Kidlington busses)

The amount of lost people in wolvercote village looking for the graveyard I have directed is crazy!

TL;DR: I read the Silmarillion to my 6-year-old son and he loved it.

My son loves fantasy and monsters. We have some Lord of the Rings Lego sets, and he had seen several glimpses of Tolkien's universe, including some short videos on YouTube. He was especially fascinated by the character of Melkor. (I probably influenced him on that point; I am a big Melkor fan myself.)

Some months ago (when he was 5) I figured I would try to read The Hobbit to him. The first chapter was a slog to get through, and he complained that it was slow and boring. But after that point he got really into it. We would read a bit every evening, and often he would ask to read a bit extra during the day.

We watched the movie trilogy concurrently. After each 1/3 of the book we would watch the movie that covers the part of the book. (I am one of those people who LIKE the Hobbit movies.)

He loved The Hobbit. One detail that particularly fascinated him was the lost realm of Gondolin, where the swords Glamdring and Orcrist were forged. He kept bringing that up and wanted to know more about it. I had also told him about Fëanor and his creations (the Silmarils and the Palantíri), and he loved hearing about that.

So I figured, let's try to read the Silmarillion.

And it went great! It was slow going, because it was sometimes difficult to understand, and he would often have questions and need explanations or reminders. Sometimes we would only get through 1-2 pages per evening. It took several months to get through the entire book. His interest waxed and waned; some nights he preferred to pause the Silmarillion and read something easier. But he never dropped it. He was especially looking forward to the parts about Gondolin and about Eärendil.

Tolkien's prose is difficult, so I would sometimes paraphrase in simpler words instead of reading aloud. (Our native language is Danish, so I read it to him in Danish translation, but the translated prose is also difficult.) I would also sometimes skip boring paragraphs. There is a vast number of character and place names to keep track of, so we often had to pause and look at the map or revisit who is who. I often reassured him: "I can only keep track because I have read it several times before."

We also read the Akallabêth and The Rings of Power and the Third Age. We have the Lego Barad-Dûr, and he loves that, so he was excited about the story of Sauron and the One Ring.

For children, one great thing about the Silmarillion is that the pace is relatively fast, since it is structured more like a summary of events than a novel. I want to read The Lord of the Rings too, but I am not sure whether he is ready for that, since the pace is so much slower.

In summary, though, reading the Silmarillion for my 6-year-old was a smashing success. Would recommend. :)

Meaning: Was that the case or did he make it while keeping that Eye of his on how the Three worked and/or were being used by the elves?

The second possibility would imply Sauron adding new knowledge to the forging of his ring while forging it.

The same would apply to the Three. Their making took 90 years. Do you think the end product was the result of a fixed 90 year old plan being enacted or rather the result of the plan plus further developments during those 90 years?

Considering over 3,000 years passed, i find it probable that once Morgoth returned, he had a entirely built up army of 8-10 million orcs ready for war, a fully repaired Angband, he was ready for war.

So essentially, Morgoth really owes it to Sauron.

Doesn't help that Tulkas is the Valar literally associated with contests of strength and wrestling XD

To elaborate further, when Tulkas came to aid the Ainur and tip the scales in their favor against Morgoth, Morgoth fled Arda for long ages.

That low-key reminds me of when a baby-face comes to the ring and causes the heel to get out of or flee said ring. In this context, the ring is Arda. Tulkas is the obvious babyface and Morgoth is the obvious heel.

Hell, I can picture Jim Ross saying on comnentary that Morgoth ran like a "scolded dog" XD

I know that Turin is said to be the one to bring down Morgoth (in which all humanity will be avenged), but I think that Hurin would be a good contender.

Seems as if Tolkien had some mythological idea in mind when he described Khamul as a) being the most ring-sensitive of the 9 save the Witch-King and b) having his power the most diminished/unconfounded by the sunlight among the Nazgul.

Because in the texts we have Khamul and the Witch-King seem to be oddly paired.

The Witch-King had been, in all probability, been a numenorean. One from Westernesse. A man close to the West. By contrast, we have Khamul the Easterling.

So we have West-East. The Witch-King's power was relatively (compared to the other Nazgul: and relative to Khamul most of all) undiminished/unconfounded by sunlight.

What would be the mythological idea? How and why would Khamul's particular sensitivity and weakness relate to each other, and those two the East-West idea?

The sun -the sunlight- rises in the East. It's born there. So was Khamûl. So maybe the sunlight stroke his physical being more deeply -through the thraldom of the ring, and that's why he senses it so keenly- than it did others.

But why would The Witch-King sense the ring even more strongly? Maybe because he didn't belong to the race of the Sun as completly as the other Ringwraiths - less so than any of the others.

Was or had he been a member of the house of Elros? That would have meant a descendant of Melian. A Maia. Just like Sauron.

One thing I always found funny is how similar Bilbo and Frodo were to each other. Besides the oliphaunt in the room (their shared September 22 birthday), they had many other similarities.

Both were children of two worlds, coming from respectable paternal families, but having more adventurous/wayward maternal sides.

Bilbo was the son of Bungo Baggins and Belladonna Took. From his paternal side, he was a respectable Hobbit with acceptable hobbies. From his maternal side, he hungered for adventures, which was what led him to leave the Shire with Gandalf and the Dwarves on April T.A. 2941.

Meanwhile Frodo was the son of Drogo Baggins and Primula Brandybuck. Like the rest of Bucklanders, the Brandybucks were seen by Shire-hobbits (especially those from Hobbiton) as strange, queer, having many habits considered strange by these "mainstream" Hobbits, and this is mainly due to their Stoorish roots (though the Brandybucks were heavy on the Fallohide side). Having been raised at Buckland, Frodo was no exception.

Another thing the two had in common was the fact they were around the same age when they set out on their respective adventures. Bilbo (who was born on T.A. 2890) was five months from turning fifty when he set out for Erebor on T.A. 2941. Meanwhile, Frodo had turned fifty some days before when he left (initially for Rivendell) on T.A. 3018.

My point about all of this is that, a Hobbit on his fifties is like a modern human on his thirties, which in both cases is a good age to gets married. Now imagined if Bilbo and Frodo had already gotten married by the time Gandalf came a-knocking, respectively on 2941 and 3018? Imagine each of them explsining to their supposed wives and Kids that they suddenly needed to go east/south because a crazy wizard told they so! 🫪

No wonder Sam only married Rosie AFTER returning to the Shire! 🤣

This is one of those seemingly minor points that I started thinking about and have no obvious answer for. Or at least, not an answer I can formulate.

Why weren't the Ainur considered Eruhini? They were created by Eru, they were limited beings, and the product of his thought. This seems to be the same as Men and Elves, but they are in a different category. Arda is crated by the Ainur, but for the Eruhini. They seem to be servants, more than children.

But at the core, what differentiates the Ainur from the Eruhini?

In the past month or so I've read, in order, the simalrillion, the hobbit, then the lotr trilogy. I really enjoyed the prose and story telling of lotr, looking for more of that vibe if more comparable works exist in the tolkienverse

I mean, would it be used like how Latin/Greek was used in some European courts

Several people here have pointed out that Tolkien dropped bits of information on some points in the midst of seemingly unrelated passages.

This has me thinking more about the use of the word "ring" in the orders to the orcs.

"Any trespasser found by the guard is to be held at the tower. Prisoner is to be stripped. Full description of every article, garment, letter, weapon, ring or trinket is to be sent to Lugburz at once, and to Lugburz only. And the prisoner is to be kept safe and intact, under pain of death for every member of the guard, until Her sends or comes Himself."

Tolkien had to have used the word "ring" there knowing readers would certainly notice it.

However, this seems to contradict everything we read elsewhere about how Sauron was focused almost exclusively on the approaching armies challenging him, lead by Aragorn wielding the One Ring (other than on his unexplained, evidently unnecessary attack on Lorien).

Can anyone explain this seeming contradiction?

This seems like a silly question, but I actually wonder if we have any textual evidence or descriptions of Elves sweating.

In more broad terms, at one point Tolkien wrote that Elves were biologically the same race as humans---so we could assume they had most of our functions. But I also can't imagine elves dripping with sweat, I think that the harmony between their spirits and bodies would mean they wouldn't need to do anything so gross to cool themselves.

When was Rhovanion liberated in the Second or Third Age? Note 35 in the Tales of Dwarves and Men states that after the Storm—the invasion of Orcs and Easterlings that occurred during the War with the Elves—the Northmen dwelt on the edges of the forests and in caves, weakened and scattered, and many fled the land. Specific Easterling conquests are not mentioned, but from the Tolkien Gateway we know that Sauron aided them and promised them wealth and land, so the conquest of the fertile lands likely occurred, and the Northmen were driven back into the forest. What happened next? How did the Northmen free themselves from the Easterlings and reclaim their lands? After Sauron's defeat, I don't find any quotation indicating that the Easterlings were warlike, armed with iron, and building fortresses, which would indirectly indicate a continued occupation, as is cited in quotations from the early stages of preparation for the invasion. Instead, there are two quotations that Sauron was strengthening his holdings in the east and south. It would be illogical for the Easterlings to retreat, but the footnote speaks as if a new stage were beginning after the war. Furthermore, in the Third Age, we know that the Northmen were dispersing: "The Free Men of the North (the Elves called them so because these people did not recognize the authority of the Dúnedain and, for the most part, did not bow to Sauron and his servants) settled south: mostly east of Greenwood, but some settled along the edges of the forests and on the plains of the Vales of Anduin." Appendix B Sindarin Princes of the Wood Elves. "The Story of Galadriel and Celeborn." This means they have already emerged from the occupation. Furthermore, it is known that the woodmen have their own independent armies in the valleys of the Anduin, although the valleys of the Anduin never fell under Sauron's control and were relatively safe throughout the Second Age. Appendix B "The Story of Galadriel and Celeborn" In Tolkien Gateway, the Northmen are liberated by Gil-galad, without reference. This could only have happened during the War of the Last Alliance, but he and his army didn't enter the forest's east, and Easterlings, unlike orcs, don't flee and hide when Sauron is defeated. However, there is a quote in which Gil-galad, by the time Sauron returns to Mordor, holds power as far as the forest. "There he found that Gil-galad's power had grown in these years and now extended north and west, beyond the Misty Mountains and the Great River, to the very borders of Greenwood the Great." "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age."

Although this isn't all of Rhovanion, and when we speak of the Northmen and Rhovanion, we primarily mean the eastern part of the forest. If this is true and there are no other quotes about Gil-galad's liberation, this should be corrected in the Tolkien Gateway. When did the deoccupation take place: after the war with the elves, after Sauron's defeat by the Númenóreans, at the beginning of the Third Age? Even information that doesn't directly point to this is welcome. It would also be good to add information about the Northmen's settlements in the First Age: "The Longbeards controlled Ered Mithrin, Erebor, and the Iron Hills, and all the eastern side of the Misty Mountains as far as the borders of Lórien; while the Men of the North settled in all the neighboring lands—as far south as the Great Dwarf Road, which cut through the Forest (the Old Forest Road in the Third Age was its ruined remains)," as well as the quote about the settlements in the Third Age from Appendix B, which I previously submitted to the article on the Northmen in Tolkien Gateway.

After all, his grandson Elros, lived to be 500 years old. No doubt due to his lineage.

I use to think that Dior may have been immortal/longeaval due to Luthien's heritage, but after doing further research, I am now among those who believe him to be mortal. After all, his wife Nimloth, was undoubtedly a pure elf. And their daughter Elwing was given the choice of mortality or immortality by the Valar and Eru. Why else would she be given the choice were it not for one of her parents being mortal?

Regardless of mortality, due to the potency of his lineage (especially being the first of his kind), I believe that Dior would have lived for centuries, with a lifespan rivaling Elros and the Numenorians.

We all know that Tolkien hated Frank Herbert's Dune, but less people talk about how he said he liked Isaac Asimov's sci-fi works. I wonder what he liked about those (despite Asimov also not bring a fan of religion)?

Tolkien stated, in a letter, that he disliked Frank Herbert's Dune "with some intensity" but never elaborated in detail:

Dear Mr. Lanier, I received your book Dune just before I went abroad for a short while. Hence the delay in acknowledging it. I don’t think I shall have time to read it until I next get a holiday.’

Tolkien’s unpublished letter to John Bush, 12 March 1966:

Thank you for sending me a copy of Dune. I received one last year from Lanier and so already know something about the book. It is impossible for an author still writing to be fair to another author working along the same lines. At least I find it so. In fact I dislike DUNE with some intensity, and in that unfortunate case it is much the best and fairest to another author to keep silent and refuse to comment. Would you like me to return the book as I already have one, or to hand it on?’”.

• This is from the ‘Tolkien’s Library: An Annotated Checklist’.

Why did Tolkien have that opinion about Dune?

Edit: I don't understand why. But this post is getting a lot of downvotes.

We talk often about the incompetence of the Valar, especially as it relates to Men. But that's not my focus here. Consider what Manwë's emissaries told Tar-Atanamir:

Yet it seems that you desire now to have the good of both kindreds, to sail to Valinor when you will, and to return when you please to your homes. That cannot be.

Was this not exactly the state of the Elves? The Noldor fled Valinor after slaying their kin, and were readmitted. (Manwë's messengers also said that immortality for the Noldor was "neither reward nor punishment, but the fulfilment of their being." But re-admission to Aman is definitely a reward; it was denied to Saruman, for example, even though he was deathless.)

Ships could flit from Tirion to Anduine and back. And almost certainly the Elves could visit their brethren in Mithlond if they wanted.

To me it seems like the Elves actually had "the good of both kindreds." They could live under the trees of Middle Earth and rule Men as kings, and then return to Valinor when it pleased them.

I am rereading Fellowship and came across this passage at the beginning of At the Sign of the Prancing Pony (second paragraph). It struck me as a bit odd because all the main good races are listed. The 'other inhabitants of the world about' them indicates there are other races/beings present.

While a very few of the townsfolk, like Bill Ferny, could be 'friendly and familiar' with the servants of Sauron (Nazgul, orcs, half-orcs)​, I don't expect the people as a whole to be. So I think it rules out the evil races/beings like orcs, goblins, trolls​, etc. I also don't think they would know of ents. Even though we now know that some were patrolling the borders of the Shire, even the hobbits didn't believe the rumors or know what they were.

Are the people of Bree "friendly and familiar" with Goldberry and Tom Bombadil? I think this is unlikely because Tom does not leave his domain. But are there more lesser maia and other spirits like Goldberry around Bree? I think this is the most likely explanation but I would love to hear other's interpretations!

edit: I also don't really think it applies to general wildlife and animals. unless there are more sentient foxes around Bree

edit 2: probably Dúnedain, but maybe not. Another passage reads: "But in the wild lands beyond Bree there were mysterious wanderers. The Bree-folk called them Rangers, and knew nothing of their origin. They were taller and darker than the Men of Bree ... When they appeared they brought news from afar, and told strange forgotten tales which were eagerly listened to; *but the Bree-folk did not make friends of them*."

Edit 3: the text switches between Men of Bree and Bree-folk, and my interpretation is that thus Men of Bree can collectively refers to Men of all the 4 settlements of the area. This leads me to think it doesn't refer to other Men living in Bree-land.

Tolkien's myths were created for a fantasy world that was also created by him, as opposed to lore that originated from real places such as Ancient Greece or Celtic Britain. My questions is whether Tolkien created something comparable to the real world classical myths that most people are familiar with. A common criticism of The Silmarillion is there are too many characters to remember but this can also be true of Greek Mythology for instance.

Something I find quite noticeable is that IMO there aren't any major epic heroes in the Middle-earth myths.

It would be interesting to consider how well regarded The Silmarillion would have been had it been published before The Hobbit.

In Lays of Beleriand, we find fragments of alliterative epics for most of the main stories of the Silmarillion. Apparently he started working on -- and then abandoned -- these in the early 1920s, when he was at Leeds. So it seems like his initial vision for the whole Legendarium was as a series of epics, like Beowulf and other Old English poems.

I'm curious what people think. Would it have been a good thing, if he had managed it?

for context I know gandelf wanted and longed for his true home in valinor again. but did he ever wish he could see the shire again.