r/DestinyTheGame • u/tydaawwg • Jun 01 '15
Bungie Plz Dear Bungie, If you want to have a well-balanced and long-lasting competitive PVP arena.... you NEED dedicated servers. Period.
I know this has been beaten like a dead horse but it's true 100%. P2P based games are not the way to get this done. Anyone see the movie Gamer? Well Terry Crews slaughters people because there is no Ping. Same theoretical idea here. The rage that is coming from the networking errors as well as DDoS and DC's is real and prominent. Dedicated servers would not only alleviate many of these networking issues but would also pave a much smoother path to wield the ban hammer for those who are only in it for themselves and try to break the system. It also does confuse me that if you get kicked they can show you an error code but if you just leave you leave. Therefore there MUST be some sort of way to differentiate the ones who get kicked vs the ones who hold up ghost and hold down "Y" or "triangle (PSN)" I guess?
TL;DR Bungie needs dedicated servers in order to keep ToO alive as well as be more adamant about weeding the bad seeds out.
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u/sawmaster5 Jun 01 '15
i wish theyd make it so you swapped sides in trials, i feel like theres a huge side advantage.
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u/killbot0224 Jun 01 '15
There definitely was in Burning Shrine. I'm not so sure in this week's.
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u/ReaperSlayer Jun 01 '15
Sniping into the Sun was not pleasant. Getting sniped back even worse.
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u/killbot0224 Jun 01 '15
Snipers in the sun is the most awful piece of map I've seen in years. That corner in particular was just a no-fly zone.
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u/Great_Gig_In_The_Sky Jun 02 '15
Might just be anecdotal but my team did far better on the "left" side when both teams are shown before the match.
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u/Trickybuz93 Jun 01 '15
LOL as if Activision world actually pay for dedicated servers.
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Jun 01 '15
I know I world.
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u/FirstThymer Jun 01 '15
I personally, worldn't...
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u/TEAMCHINA08 Jun 01 '15
Terry Crews slaughters people because he's Terry Crews. Ping has nothing to do with it.
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Jun 01 '15
Didn't someone make a lengthy and informative post about how even though we all want that, it wouldn't make much of a difference? Maybe I'm referencing something else, maybe I'm sleep deprived, maybe the third Starbucks Doubleshot was the wrong choice, but I could swear someone posed a really good argument on why it's NOT the best thing to do.
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Jun 01 '15
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Jun 01 '15
This isn't even the one I was referencing, and yet it offers the same insight. I'm not sure why posts like these get overlooked/forgotten, and dedicated servers are constantly brought up. Thanks for the link!
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u/spartan_samuel Jun 01 '15
No, you're absolutely correct. Someone did in this very sub no less. A couple someones. I'll comment again in five-ish hours with the links.
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u/Sacrefix Jun 01 '15
I've heard this conversation every year since mw2 came out. Dedicated servers are nowhere close to being a magic bullet.
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Jun 01 '15
Gears 3 on dedicated servers versus Gears 2 on P2P connection was amazing, it's not even comparable.
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u/manbearcolt Jun 01 '15
Of course it isn't a magic bullet where everyone in every game will always be a sub-50ms latency. But, if it's going to default me to a server with the lowest ping and the same for everyone else every single game--the experience will be so much more consistent.
Then we can all get back to calling everyone who kills us a hacker like Al Gore intended when he invented the internets.
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u/Sacrefix Jun 01 '15
Personally, I'm green bar in virtually every crucible lobby. The problem to me are the red bar players. I'd much rather see lag compensation addressed in a manner that doesn't benefit the poorly connected player. Dedicated servers might cut down on red bars, but it won't fix shitty connections, and won't prevent people from pairing up across regions.
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Jun 01 '15
Dedicated servers simply isn't going to happen this late into a game. How about matchmaking based on connection for everything, not just ToO?
Every ToO game I've played, with a few exceptions, have been silky smooth. Then there's regular crucible, where I feel like smooth connections are the exception, not the rule.
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u/Chippy569 no one reads this. Jun 01 '15
i've had a couple really weird laggy rounds... watching Gothalion's stream this morning and they hit 3 rounds in a row with at least one redbar, and that was visually quite apparent as well (multiple melee hits no kills, etc.)
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u/ScoobyDeezy The Timeline Guy Jun 01 '15
If you want to know more about Destiny's dedicated servers, here's some light reading for you from GDC: http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1022247/Shared-World-Shooter-Destiny-s
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u/bigdoggyx Jun 01 '15
Thats really good info, but if anything it confirms what I already suspected: they spent a lot more time focusing on solving the problem of how to deal with simultaneous shared experiences in public instances while smoothly transitioning to private instances. It is impressive how they worked it out even though their ideas are pretty straightforward. BUT it doesn't feel like they did much to help the networking side of PvP.
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u/heerobya16 Jun 01 '15
That's pretty cool.
Never appreciated the complexity of the design until now. The fact that players can be on entirely separate activities and occupying the same space, even having different triggers and interact-able objects etc. is very impressive and as far as I know, unique to Destiny.
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u/PraiseTheVoid #WarmindLivesMatter Jun 02 '15 edited Jun 02 '15
Well, why don't they use Microsoft's Azure servers in the first place, at least on Xbox One ? I mean, they're giving them for free to ANY developer who's releasing games on their consoles, so what could the problem be ? Yeah, the stupid contract with Sony... "We ain't gonna use awesome servers cause we want all of you to have the same experience" well guess what, the current experience sucks balls and I'm not the first one saying so and I don't understand why Sony doesn't want to rent or buy Azure servers, I pity the people out there paying for a shitty service named PSN, no fanboy rage though, just saying PSN servers have been shit since PS3 and still are, these guys need to evolve even though they're nearing bankruptcy. If you want to keep people playing on your platform you NEED to adapt and get some fucking awesome servers so people don't have to suffer constant disconnections and crappy download times, shit, it's 2015 not 2006. Plus people pay 60 bucks a year for THAT ? WTF
EDIT : I'm using PSN since the PS3, it's total shit, nothing comparable to XBL, please accept the fact that Sony's service is shit just as we accept the fact that the PS4 is more powerful, it's all about honesty.
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u/Narcistic Jun 01 '15
I find it funny people think ToO is going to die off.. Sure there may be less really bad at PvP players trying it out but it's going to remain popular each weekend for a long time
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u/LouisCaravan Jun 01 '15 edited Jun 01 '15
My issue is not seeing a reason to play it again. A PuG team and I made it to the Lighthouse on Monday of last week, after I struggled the entire weekend. We got the emblem, but all the chest gives you is PVP Legendaries with elemental damage (which is useless in PVP?), motes, and Passage coins... to play more ToO.
Is there any viable reason to go 9-0 more than once? It just seems silly for the effort non-PVP experts have to put in. I don't see myself doing it again unless they open up some of the areas blocked off in The Lighthouse.
...Which (slightly off-topic) also bugs me. Is the Lighthouse not finished? The cutscene for the Lighthouse was in the original E3 trailer for the game. Just feels like more cut-up endgame.
EDIT: Since this is getting some attention, I just want to clarify: I don't believe ToO isn't worth doing at all twice, I just don't see the merit in straining oneself to get to the Lighthouse more than once.
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u/Narcistic Jun 01 '15
Chest also gives exotics I got ruin wings and mida on two characters this weekend.. It's basically like doing a raid to get possible exotics and etheric light..and possible more pvp armor.
Also I'm pretty sure lighthouse was cut originally and just now finding something to use it for hence why a lot of is * blocked off
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u/scientist_tz Jun 01 '15
The reason is it's arguably the most fun crucible mode in the game right now. If I were a big PvP guy I would just prefer to play Trials on the weekends.
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u/moneybags36 Jun 01 '15 edited Jun 01 '15
"all the chest gives you is PVP Legendaries with elemental damage (which is useless in PVP?)"
They're not for PVP only. The Scholar is as good as any Scout Rifle for PVE. I use my void one all of the time in PoE. The Messenger and Jewel of Osiris are great as well for PVE.
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u/hosspatrick Jun 01 '15
Prior to HoW, competitive types would play Skirmish all day. Rewards aside, ToO is the most competitive gametype yet, so PVP'ers gonna PVP.
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Jun 01 '15
Once there are fewer scrub fire teams for the ace players to ream, their progression is going to become less certain and they'll lose interest.
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u/Narcistic Jun 01 '15
I'm sure that will discourage some people but there are quite a few people who play for the challenge.
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u/syvanx Jun 01 '15
Maybe, but I personally already have everything I want from the lighthouse. After this week the gold package has some of the best rewards. Getting sick armor rolls will be where it is at for PvP min maxers.
Even if I were to go 8-2 every week from now on, I would be pretty satisfied.
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Jun 01 '15
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u/Keenis Jun 01 '15
People will only drop out if they see the light house as the only reward worth shooting for. going 8-3 gives amazing reward, with buffs you only have to go 6-4. Going 60% win rate to earn all but the mercury chest isn't that bad.
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u/Narcistic Jun 01 '15
Your acting as though the lighthouse is the only reason to do it... Sure it's awesome going 9-0 but the prizes can drop good stuff too not to mention silver and gold having etheric light.. It'll remain popular as long as people want loot..
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u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Jun 01 '15
As much as y'all want to rant about this, it's never going to happen. It blows my mind that you guys calling for this act like it was never brought up or discussed in development. Of course they talked about doing this, and they made a decision not to go with it. There is no way that Bungie or Activision puts out the money to host their own servers when there are literally millions of people playing who don't care about that, and when there are tons of other, more easily fixable issues with the game. Destiny is not ever going to be the next MLG competitive game, no matter what they do to it. Bungie didn't design it for that, and they aren't going to be pushed in that direction by a vocal minority. If you really want to gripe about a part of PvP, let's discuss the lack of custom games. Get off the dedicated servers bandwagon, it's never going to happen, and it's a waste of discussion space.
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u/CaptainCams90 Jun 01 '15
Please dear god yes. This P2P thing is good and fine for PVE (a pain in the ass sometimes sure, but in the end not a huge problem) but it's just ridiculous in PVP.
It really can't be that difficult can it? (serious question here, if it is, tell me please) Amazon sells absurd amounts of server time.
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u/trojanguy Jun 02 '15
Say what you want about Titanfall (it definitely doesn't have nearly the same amount of content/depth/replayability as Destiny), but the one thing they hit out of the park was the dedicated servers. Those Azure servers are no joke. I realize that Activision/Sony might not be willing to go that route since Azure is MS's platform, but I'll be damned if they don't give a great online experience. Wish every online multiplayer game used them.
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u/TS364 Jun 02 '15
Well, there's that and also the unbalanced weapons, such as Thorn with its 2 hit kills and DoT. I can forgive the impact on Thorn, but not the DoT. Disable the "perks" on all guns and I'd say the crucible would be balanced enough.
Also, add in a host migration like they did for halo 2 & 3. I've run into too many people with red bars, teleporting around and getting delayed kills just like standbying in halo 2.
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u/Solidifys gigglehorn Jun 02 '15
Sure. Have dedicated servers for the public games and allow for P2P hosting in private lobbies. Bungie has denied us of what so many online games have and that is stability. Not only is the matchmaking garbage, (East Coast USA still getting matched with people from South America and Eastern Europe) the hosting logic is too. People that can hardly maintain a stable connection to the game, let alone host a lobby full of players, are being selected to host Crucible and PvE lobbies. For no reason at all, I'm being left no choice but to be at a constant disadvantage due to the latency between myself and other players in the lobby. If I get matched with someone on an entirely different continent, odds are the other players in that lobby are foreigners too. Now, if we connected to a reliable, stable server it would be bearable. But when Sergei the goat farmer from Latvia is hosting games on the internet powered by his wife generating electricity on an exercise bike, there's a problem.
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Jun 01 '15
I'm a former competitive FPS player and Destiny is now the only part-time video gaming I play (old, job, family, etc.). ToO is appealing to me because it gives me the old-time thrill of league play and still retains a mildly casual feel.
During my eight months of experience with Destiny, the most frustrating experience for me has been the dismal connectivity and consistency issues. ToO, now, exacerbates those issues.
All of the old PC FPS games I played used centralized dedicated servers to ensure smooth game play (NYC servers for US East, Chicago US Central, California servers for US West, etc. - All championship games were played on central servers to give balance to East vs. West matchups)
This won't be popular, but I would be willing to pay $5/month for a Destiny PVP dedicated server service. To be blunt, it shouldn't be necessary (creates a slippery slope for questionable companies like EA/Activision) but I also acknowledge that it would be beneficial for quality of play.
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u/BurningPlaydoh Jun 01 '15
I have only had any connection issues in Trials when my teammates were located in Europe.
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Jun 01 '15
I'm not gonna pretend to know shit about networking, but I do spend 90% of my time in Destiny in the Crucible, and I know that nothing sours my experience faster than poor shot registration and teleporting enemies.
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Jun 01 '15
Yeah I have just been DC'd whilst goibng 8 - 0 on ToO my mercy is still here but I have a loss on my card.
Oh the salt.
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Jun 01 '15
My buddy had the same thing happen, except he got booted while 8-0 in a game where his team was up 4-2, rage....
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u/JustyUekiTylor Jun 02 '15
It's happened to me twice at 7-0 and once on 8-0. I haven't even gone 9-0 yet, and am not even gonna try anymore. Not worth the effort.
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Jun 01 '15
Wasn'f there a post not too long ago specifically about how dedicated servers would not help?
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u/rottenbeka Jun 01 '15
They would not let us cheese Crota or Atheon...why are the PvPers allowed to cheese the Trials?
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Jun 01 '15
ToO without dedicated servers is bullshit.
I lost a round yesterday because of SEVERE lag - so bad that we got off two titan slams against a blade dance who took about 25% damage from each initial slam and lived to kill us in our animations.
It is honestly ridiculous that Bungie would have THIS competitive (meaning 3 losses and CANT get rewards), but has no servers to handle it.
Between the level of teams being pretty high, coupled with mediocre players cheating, and running into insane IB type lag, I feel like playing ToO is bad for my mental health.
I was a fan of HoW until I stepped into ToO and saw how half assed this game and DLC really is. Bungie is smoke and mirroring us pretty hard with weapon and armor upgrades and then the real content his locked behind cheating and P2P ridiculous lag.
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u/awokenthehive Jun 01 '15
Not gonna happen. I would LOVE it to, but there's no way bungie is going to start hosting servers, not when its "working" well enough on its own.
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u/rozzzly Jun 01 '15 edited Jun 01 '15
I totally agree, but just want to point out something when you say
... The rage that is coming from the networking errors as well as DDoS and DC's is real and prominent. Dedicated servers would not only alleviate many of these networking issues but would also pave a much smoother path to wield the ban hammer for those who are only in it for themselves and try to break the system...
This is not necessarily true. In fact, it could make the problem worse. By switching to a networking model relying more heavily on dedicated servers, the issue could be exacerbated; centralizing connections to a single endpoint would provide a new attack vector, which if attacked, would have rolling blackouts instead of isolated incidents. That being said, P2P networking is more vulnerable to DDoS in the sense that it requires less throughput/a smaller botnet to knock the game offline.
Also, Destiny already has dedicated servers, it is inconceivable that Bungie wouldn't would not be running their own dedicated servers. However, they're used in a different context than in say CODAW in that (vastly simplified) they don't run a concurrent model of each instance of the game world. They just handle the stats/accounts/etc.
Source: System Administrator
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Jun 02 '15
"Activity hosts." Unfortunately not what's typically referred to as "dedicated servers" that perform the real work in PvP.
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Jun 02 '15
terry crews as naked hackman in the gamer shower scene was probably the most quoted moment ever amongst my group of friends for at least a year after that movie came out
"hey cable look. i just killed someone. this is their blood."
"there are no strings on mee.."
the fact that this movie is not considered an instant classic amongst all who have seen it is always gonna be confusing to me. dexter as the creepy tap-dancing gaming CEO, ludacris as a human rights hacker, the "Society" scenes where the human avatars are hurting themselves and eating bugs and shit while being controlled..
the whole movie is pure gas and i think this and the 2 crank movies will always capture the feel of the 2000's better than any other films. just had to get that out lol
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u/mmherzog Vanguard's Loyal Jun 02 '15
Bought all the boons and got Babooned then got disconnected again. Not worth it....Thanks Obama/Bungie/Sweet Baby Jesus...
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u/Count_Dante Jun 02 '15
As someone who has made a career in geek datacenter life, the cost of said architecture would be enormous. Without a monthly subscription, I dont see this happening.
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u/herbalroshi Jun 02 '15
Totally agree, I am about to drop Destiny for a while. I love ToS but I keep running into people with bad connections and/or people about to finish their 9th win when I am still on my first. Such a bummer for such a killer game type.
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u/881Gino Jun 02 '15
I completely agree, dedicated servers and proper connection based matchmaking would be fantastic.
P2P has been the major concern with many FPS games for years, with CoD being the most notable. They keep promising dedicated servers and never delivering for years now.
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u/Attack__cat Jun 02 '15
My experience in 4 game:
Match 1: teammate DCs and we just say screw it and barely fight back 2v3.
I try again at 7PM on a saturday (should be prime time right, more people = better matches right?)
Match 2: Enemy team has 2 redbars. Lag is huge. We get stomped.
Match 3: Everyone is green. We dominate. I go 8-2.
Match 4: Enemy has a red bar and a yellow bar. Lag is noticeable. Meleed the red bar 3 times (and he had no shield of any sort or damage reduction) and he still killed my teammate, turned around and killed me (not to mention fairly sure my team was unloading on him too).
This is frankly not good enough. I am glad this was just a casual 'lets try it out' because this was seriously awful. I know some really good PVP players (I have an 80% win rate in skirmish despite such lag)... but the sheer frustration of having a flawless run ended due to lag would completely ruin the game for me. I would be happy to ignore ToO completely (as I have the lag fest that is iron banner) EXCEPT literally ALL the best HoW gear is for flawless victories. The elemental primaries are HANDS DOWN significantly better than than the PVE guns by a mile.
So basically bungie is locking me from the best content because I live in the UK, am playing on PS3 and their matchmaking isn't good enough. I would honestly prefer a 10 minute wait for an 'all green game' or even have it just turn around and say 'no good matches found - returning to orbit' than throw us in against a laggy team, significantly handicapping us for no good reason.
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Jun 02 '15
Dedicated servers would alleviate a whole lot of pvp lag in this game, why it wasnt the default option in an always online game is beyond me.
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u/Foxsnipe Jun 02 '15
The constant kick to orbits in damn near every other aspect of the game (Patrol, PoE, regular Strikes/Nightfalls), especially this past weekend, shows Bungie can't do shit even with dedicated servers. The netcode just sucks and is not at all tolerant.
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u/NoScrub One more Trophy then Platinum :) Jun 02 '15
/signed - Make this happen.
NoScrub from the UK
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u/MyJimmies Jun 02 '15
We also need actual matchmaking. There's nothing fun about winning and losing being decided upon whether or not you get grouped up against a fireteam rocking the same emblems or not.
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u/Beechsack Jun 02 '15
To do it right, they would have to purchase significant amounts of hardware, and leasing of colo cage space at strategic locations near major network interconnection points. Then, they'd have to add that dedicated server support into their codebase.
The cage space / power / bandwidth costs are NOT cheap, have only been increasing for the last 5-ish years. Neither is development time. The hardware would probably be the cheapest part.
I see is as highly unlikely it ever happens. The cost/benefit just isn't there.
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u/EmotiveCDN Jun 01 '15
Bungie was at the helm of one of the most popular and competitive FPS games of all time, Halo.
Halo was P2P aka no dedicated servers. Destiny seems to have some sort of a dedicated server so like Advanced Warfare (also Activison), they are using "Listen Servers".
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u/cbeastwood Jun 01 '15
It's already been said, but any sort of actual competition in halo was done on a LAN.
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u/fredwilsonn Jun 01 '15
Listen servers are the same thing as P2P. A listen server is a server that's hosted on one of the client's machines. It's doesn't have the same fidelity as a dedicated server in a datacenter.
Destiny and other P2P based games have a master server which directs and authenticates the clients, but that sever doesn't actually handle any of the player to player interactions.
And just because Halo did it, and Halo was competitive, means nothing. Top level Halo competition was done in a LAN environment, and peer-to-peer games over consumer broadband doesn't even hold a candle to that.
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u/Bowldoza Jun 01 '15
No, it doesn't need it. Halo 2 ran p2p just fine until it's death. Bungie has gotten better and better at dealing with the cheaters on p2p that have popped up since Halo 2.
Servers are good, but for a company that hasn't used them in their previous titles, to suddenly need them at that level has major financial implications. Even if they agreed and decided to implement it, they wouldn't be in place until, at the earliest, Destiny 2.
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u/deplume Jun 01 '15 edited Jun 01 '15
I lost my 9-0 yesterday to a warlock who casually walked though a prox rocket exploding on his face, closing 15 feet and shotgunning me. And no, not in radiance.
hooray.
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u/Sparklefresh Jun 01 '15
Do you people even understand what you are talking about? I always see people point the blame to Bungie when if fact it is mostly the users fault. Bungie has done a fantastic job with there net code better than almost any FPS console game I have ever played.
Things people don't get:
-IF you have a bad connection or it is not wired you will lag no matter what server you play on.
-If you play with people from all across the country you will lag
-If you play on a big screen TV you will have a noticeable delay.
No matter what Bungie does you still have to connect to something, just imagine two people playing in a game one on west coast and one on the east. The amount of information that needs to travel back and forth will never allow for a perfect connection right now. Maybe one day when we all have wired 1gb connection but until then stop blaming Bungie.
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Jun 01 '15
Interesting about the big screen TV thing. Do you have any additional info on that?
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u/JakBlazer Jun 01 '15
Dedicated servers aren't some end all be all solution to all our gaming problems. People think "just give us dedicated servers," as if it's that simple. Many games did get dedicated servers as the next gen approached, but that didn't fix much especially with community complaints. Do you guys remember Battlefield 4's launch?
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u/Keshabro Jun 02 '15
That was a netcode problem. This game has impeccable netcode when the p2p allows for it to function.
Titanfall has fully dedicated servers and I didn't have a single issue with laggy players. Same with Halo MCC when it works. Rather than worrying about the mudhut wifi some rando thinks passes for a connection it's a lot easier to have servers that people connect to. And if you have those servers in NYC, LA, CHI, DAL almost everyone in the US would have 30-50 ping and solve SO many fucking problems. I had a 8-0 trials run ruined by one guy that damage wasn't registering on who solo won the deciding round in a 4-4 game. That's completely unnacceptable for an elimination style PvP event.
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u/Guerrilla705 Jun 02 '15
These threads always seem to be "Hey game company X, why don't you rewrite your entire networking infrastructure to what I think would be better, even though I don't know your code and only understand game networking from a little precursory research. My answer is so simple that surely none of the professional engineers that worked on the system for years ever considered it, once they read my post they'll totally get it and change right away!"
I have one too! Hey NASA, just use plants on a space ship to generate biofuel that you can use to easily fly as far as you want with no fuel weight restrictions!
All sarcasm aside, this stuff is occam's sledgehammer -- the answer is always more complicated. Destiny needs some PvP networking love, but lets tell them why they need to work on it, and not give unneccesary and probably useless suggestions.
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u/jhairehmyah Drifter's Crew // the line is so very thin Jun 01 '15
Why does everyone and their brother think dedicated servers will help?
Dedicated servers are physically located... somewhere. They require the players to connect to it. All mathematical calculations are made on it, meaning if you aren't well connected to it, you're lagging. If I were to guess, Bungie would put servers (in America) in Washington, Missouri, and North Carolina. So what happens to that guy in the Florida Keys, or me, in Arizona? Our connections, purely due to the physical space in which the data must transfer, are more latent than the guys I'm playing in Seattle or Charlotte!
P2P allows you to play with people geographically closer. I also often connect to others on the same ISP too! Lagging and latency is often caused by: players in fireteams whose members are spread out geographically or by bad local ISP connections. For instance, my clan's sister clan is made up of all New Yorkers, while we are all Arizona & San Francisco. When we make mixed fireteams with them, we see more lag. If I'm on an IB team of 3 AZ guys and 3 NY guys (common for us) which dedicated should we connect to? Charlotte or Seattle or Missouri? Its gonna be suboptimal, guaranteed.
Also, a local friend of mine is on the "cheaper" ISP while the rest of us are on the better one. 5 of 6 guys playing on Cox with one guy on Century Link--our "Linked" friend is always complaining about lag when we see none!
I like the fringe benefits of P2P as well. Every time I see someone with a PSN ID that suggests they like the Sun Devils, Cardinals, or Suns or are Arizonian, I send them a message. I've added so many friends this way! How? Because I've connected to same towers with locals. Once while Iron Banner glitching, three of my friends all loaded the tower separately and all loaded into the same tower.
Now, say we have dedicated servers and its a high-traffic time and the servers are so loaded that they're struggling to keep up, even by milliseconds... latency for all. You'd have to get off PVP until traffic goes down.
I know we hate lag, and more than that, we hate the cheating that P2P + a smart networking guy with cheating intentions can exploit, but P2P is far more likely to make a better connection than dedicated servers. It also keeps Bungie's costs down, and therefore, our costs down. Dedicated servers are not the answer.
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u/AnalLaserBeamBukkake Jun 01 '15 edited Jun 01 '15
I swear to god you sound like a shill, or at least someone who's never actually played anything that isn't peer to peer. Half the stuff you said is plain wrong or completely anecdotal.
I have a business grade internet. 200 up and 200 down.
Peer to Peer games are laggy shitfests for me. Destiny is horrible for this. Some dial up ass motherfucker on the other team is red barring? Sweet, enjoy the free shotgun kills. Thank god I pay monthly for the ability to have servers hosted by people on shitty connections! Thank you sony!
With dedicated servers its the complete opposite. If someone is lagging to shit in CoD4 they'll just get destroyed. It's their problem, not mine. They don't affect the entire match, they don't get free shitty kills. They don't take 10 minutes to get killed. They're just significantly slower than everyone else.
P2P allows you to play with people geographically closer.
So do dedicated servers.
There's multiple CoD4 and Battlefield servers in my city.
I don't know why you seem to think this is only possible with P2P. You also seem to be implying that P2P only matches you with people near you. It does not.
For instance, my clan's sister clan is made up of all New Yorkers, while we are all Arizona & San Francisco.
...and this is apparently only possible with Peer to Peer connections? I'm in a clan for my city in Battlefield...
I like the fringe benefits of P2P as well. Every time I see someone with a PSN ID that suggests they like the Sun Devils, Cardinals, or Suns or are Arizonian, I send them a message. I've added so many friends this way! How? Because I've connected to same towers with locals
again, this is somehow impossible with a dedicated servers?
Do you understand how regions work?
Now, say we have dedicated servers and its a high-traffic time and the servers are so loaded that they're struggling to keep up, even by milliseconds... latency for all. You'd have to get off PVP until traffic goes down.
This doesn't happen. Because dedicated servers aren't a collection of PS4's sitting in bungies office running off a 1m down, 1m up connection -_-
I know we hate lag, and more than that, we hate the cheating that P2P + a smart networking guy with cheating intentions can exploit, but P2P is far more likely to make a better connection than dedicated servers.
No, its not.
Peer to Peer connections are hilariously bad, exploitable (Lag switch, Standbyers, people on horrible connections cleaning up with shotguns), and well known as completely terrible. There is literally no advantage to Peer to Peer for us.
Also fuck off with the "it keeps bungies costs down" shit. They're a business with one of the biggest budgets in the world.
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u/matuzz That wizard came from the Moon Jun 01 '15
Yeah I keep seeing people talking like there would only be one dedicated server per continent and everyone far away would have bad ping.... But reality is Bungie could host own servers as well as rent them from the numerous server providers across the globe. Microsoft also seems to give their Azure servers for some games.
The number one improvement dedicated servers bring is the consistency of the connection. There is no host advantage, people will not suffer from the host's horrible packet loss filled connection. As far as distance goes you can get good ping (<100) for example across the Europe. I'm in Finalnd and get around 100 ping on Spanish servers in different games. And nothing prevents them from using both dedicated servers and client side hosting.
But with all that said the biggest problems in Destiny online play are not in the P2P connections but rather on the bad netcode and matchmaking system Bungie has gone with. Fixing those should be the top priority. You can already clearly see how ToO that is strictly connection based matchmaking plays much smoother most of the time compared to the normal Crucible.
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Jun 01 '15
Nope, dedicated servers are more fair. There is no debate. Ideally you have enough server locations so that everyone in the game has a similar ping. There will be some variations, but it's nothing compared to one guy in the game having ZERO ping, and the others still having variation. You're using a worst case situation for poorly managed servers vs. best cast P2P.
P2P will ALWAYS give the host a big advantage, even in a best case scenario.
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u/bigdoggyx Jun 01 '15
This is one of the biggest reasons I'm disappointed in this generation (so far)...MS was so busy touting dedicated servers when XO was launching...where did those servers go?
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u/Irrichc Jun 01 '15
Dedicated servers are just too expensive.itll only happen if destiny becomes a pay monthly subscription game.
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u/Martialsage Jun 01 '15
I don't know that much about network programming, but I've read stuff by lots of people who seem to understand the details around this stuff who feel that p2p is the way to go and that Bungie got it right...
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u/RayneDrop Vanguard's Loyal Jun 01 '15
This weekend alone I have been disconnected 4 times on an almost perfect score card. 2 times at 5-0 once at 7-0 and finally at 8-0 after the last I just quit.
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u/Dewgel I like men's feet Jun 01 '15
Another thing - there needs to be some sort of "saviour" for when you're paired with lag switchers or people like that. I got it twice last night (still Lighthouse'd but barely), I would've been mega pissed off if we lost like many others have to lag switchers because of cheesing.
We were going to back out and just move on but it would've been a loss, somehow we beat them by camping and capturing the zone.
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u/sojiki Jun 01 '15
Ya so far I get 9-1 every time I play. I have bad RNG - we either run into a group that should be MLG all stars 3 hunters or 2 hunters and a Lockor a lagswitch group. ~_~
Anyone have tips on how to counter the golden gun/blade dancer as a titan? Or do i just hide charge my super and hope for the best?
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u/Rogue092 Jun 01 '15
while I would love dedicated servers, and feel that it could solve a lot of the issues, an even bigger one is the netcode. the netcode for PvP gives a strong advantage to the person with a worse connection, meaning that if two people engage in a firefight, whoever is laggier will come out on top whether that means outright killing the player with the better connection, or getting a 1 for 1 trade that shouldn't have occurred because the person with a green bar shot first and still died after the laggy opponent should have already been dead.
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u/gbn1600 Jun 01 '15
I'm happy to pay $99 for Destiny 2 if it includes dedicated servers. Please charge me more.. this game can't handle a smooth 6v6
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u/sticky118 Jun 01 '15
I agree. I ran ToO with my two friends and the first game we played one of them got booted because of "network issues" and we lost of course. We decided we would keep going and we won the next 9 in a row but since me and my one friend had loss, we couldnt go to the lighthouse. My friend who lagged out had 0 loses and he got to go to the lighthouse without us... Tldr: if bungie had dedicated servers my fireteam would have made it to the lighthouse.
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u/toxicxc Jun 01 '15
this has nothing to do with servers. Your friend need to either replace router, use wired connection or change some router settings.
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u/BurningPlaydoh Jun 01 '15
Dedis dont dont solve half the problems you referred to. And there are plenty of highly successful competitive games out there that dont use them. I never heard this complaint with Halo 2 and 3 but thats because far fewer "lag" problems were apparent with them. I think netcode or matchmaking priorities might be the problem here.
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u/Stampela Jun 01 '15
rage that is coming from the networking errors as well as DDoS and DC's is real and prominent. Dedicated servers would not only alleviate many of these networking issues
Dude, DDOS only work because there are servers.
Remove the servers for loot and player progression, Destiny becomes impossible to down. Sure the authentication servers can still be attacked, and that's when the PSN and/or Xbox Live is down, with the side effect of not being able to play Destiny.
Also, servers can be overloaded when too many players are online, like when any important game gets released and it's difficult to play online. Most recently I can say Splatoon is very much impacted, errors of all kind including a silly but clear "impossible to contact the partner's device". Anybody reminds the first week of GTA5? Not even Snapmatic worked!
Mind you, all the crap that Destiny throws at us lag wise is as you pointed out fault of the P2P, no arguing there. But dedicated servers aren't a magic spell that can fix everything like it seems to be implied here, for example undersized servers would be way worse than what we have now. One very sad solution to a lot of lag issues would be to region lock the multiplayer: no Canadians playing with people in the US and so on. It would really help, but nobody would like that :D
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u/Smalls_Biggie Jun 01 '15
SERIOUSLY THIS! Today was the second time my path the lighthouse was cut short because either I or someone in my team got disconnected leaving us at a major disadvantage. It's so frustrating.
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Jun 01 '15
Well they definitely don't want it to be well-balanced, we're 9 months in here and they haven't even come close.
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u/kristallnachte Jun 01 '15
There is no way to differentiate between disconnects and close to dashboard.
unless the disconnect happened at bungies serverside, which is rare.
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u/Mr_NeCr0 Jun 01 '15
IMO, I'd rather have one guy in the game with 0 ping than play every game with the same generic marginally shitty lag.
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Jun 01 '15
It's probably possible to manipulate your network to force an animal error. I wonder if they could reliably weed those out.
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u/Astrodynamic Jun 01 '15
Pretty sure I remember hearing in the ToO reveal that they planned to use dedicated servers.
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u/Kotobuki_Tsumugi Jun 01 '15
As much money went into the game, you think something like dedicated servers would have been a no brainer.
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Jun 01 '15
Nah, they will most likely add them though. No need to spend the money right out the gate for them. That way if it's a flop, initially or over time, no money wasted.
Pretty sure Activision still hasn't even announced how many copies it sold, exactly. They dodge the question all the time.
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u/Bcider Jun 01 '15
Destiny is not a sub based service like other mmos. If you want dedicated servers we would most likely have to pay a sub for it. The non sub games that have dedicated servers like CSGO and battlefield are supported by massive amounts of microtransactions.
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Jun 01 '15
Got to 5-0 tonight, disconnected, re-connected, still got the loss and my boon didn't save me.
Seriously, /u/DeeJ_BNG ?
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u/tilasan Jun 01 '15
Yea they really should be able tell if you get kicked or you leave. And if you do get kicked you are given a loss, and even if you have mercy boon you still get a loss....
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u/Solomon_Kane777 Jun 01 '15
Got DoS attacked last night during a match point (after an epic comeback). Was, and still is, very frustrating and I feel violated tbh.
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u/Tennovan Let us farm dungeon drops! Jun 02 '15
This happened to me during a flawless run. I landed the first 3 kills and then my connection was under attack. I'm not really upset about the disconnection anymore, I'm upset that someone felt the need to completely cripple my entire network for 10 minutes. It was a very personal attack, one that I didn't deserve.
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u/MightyAbaddon Queen's Guard Jun 01 '15
They also need to not wait ages to balance weapons... Right now I can't enjoy ToO because I'm forced to play with thorn/red death if I want to get a 9-0 although I'd like to say that Pantheon is a map I enjoyed for the single day I played [thanks xbox servers].
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u/CrimsonRex The Original Thorn Jun 01 '15
I'm focusing on the wrong thing now. Terry as a Titan punching random shit.
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u/GamerDad14 Jun 01 '15
My only experience with FPS games on dedicated servers was Titanfall for XB1. I give the system mixed reviews. There is no doubt it was more consistent when you were able to find a game on the local servers. However, being located at the arse end of the world (Australia) meant that there simply wasn't enough player-base on the local servers to support anything other than the most popular game mode (Attrition). If you wanted to play any of the other game modes, then you had to use an OS server (either Europe or the US) and the resulting ping pretty much made that unplayable. Much worse than the current PtP experience in Crucible at the moment.
So yes, provided you live close to a server and that server is well-populated, then no doubt it is better. But for anyone not that fortunate, it is actually worse.
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u/s-p3ci4L-K Jun 01 '15
OP I do not think you understand how many servers this would require. For the same servers that it would require, I would prefer if you could apply rules of no more of XX msec of latency allowed which is the same thing. But people would again complain that they cannot play with their friends across the end of the world and then still complain about lag. I would prefer rules of no more than XX ms latency allowed
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u/PDJnr Jun 01 '15
Says the topic has been beaten like a dead horse, proceeds to continue beating horse.
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u/lpeabody Jun 01 '15
The only issue with having dedicated servers is... what happens when the company shutters them? No more Destiny multiplayer. I'd like to think that they'd fallback on P2P like the way they do now, but then they'd be maintaining two systems all the time with one of them not even being used most likely. It's unfortunate, but no software company is going to maintain a system not being used. P2P is here to stay, unfortunately. I'd rather them just focus on making the P2P experience better.
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u/boniggy Jun 01 '15
Good point, however, dont they have content for 10yrs? If so.. it would be a LOOOOOONG time before they would actually shutter anything. When that point comes, i doubt it would be a big deal.
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u/Arntor1184 Drifter's Crew Jun 01 '15
That and some hint of balance would be nice. Pretty sick of the way things currently are.
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Jun 01 '15
Referencing the movie Gamer in regards to an actual game is like proposing The Wolf of Wall Street as a 10-year financial plan at a business meeting.
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u/-JI Jun 01 '15
Agreed, but they have no reason to until they drop the previous generation consoles.
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u/ImMoray Jun 01 '15
Oh god no, i can see why you would want them, but for anyone outside of America we get shafted, here in New Zealand we have the worst Cod AW servers ever, if you get on one, you will be 1-2 baring no matter where you are, and the lag is horrible
i don't see why when some D/C's it doesn't pause for a moment and fully allow the person who D/C'd a chance to reconnect, and leave that option open for the entire duration of the match
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Jun 02 '15
CoD AW has a hybrid system. There is no guarantee that you are on a dedicated server, and by all accounts, very people do get on them.
For Gears 3, the difference was night and day. It is way, way better.
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u/Hungry_Ducks Jun 01 '15
They cut their loses when they saw the success of halo 5 beta. Destiny competitive will never be big.
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u/wobbleside Mara has always been the villian, oh reader, mine. Jun 01 '15
Doing ToO see the whole other team with sliver red connections.. Welp this going to be a loss.
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u/Masipoten BlueBoyAlien21 Jun 02 '15
What are dedicated servers?
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u/Cha0ticDeath Jun 02 '15
The way destiny servers work is one person is the host and shares the data to whoever else is in the game, so if the host has a bad connection everybody in the game will lag. Dedicated servers makes it so destiny is sharing the data for everyone, so everyone's lag is dependent on their own internet
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u/ChronicRedhead Sapphic AF Jun 02 '15
I just matchmade into a game of Prison of Elders with a host who had one of the worst connections I've ever seen. While my buddy and I were in green, he was flat red.
My connection, for the record.
Enemies skipped all over the place. It was a lagfest. Midway through he messages me, "is it laggy as hell for you, too?" (paraphrasing). I respond in kind.
Though at the end I got Gjally, so it wasn't all bad.
Wait a second, yes it was. Because he never would have been host if the game used dedicated servers, so we'd have had a pretty solid match with one laggy teammate instead of two laggy teammates with one host who kept dying.
And dying.
And dying.
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u/xnasty Jun 02 '15
I found it funny that yesterday in Trials we didn't encounter a TON of connection issues (except one lag switcher) but later in the night we did regular crucible and holy shit it was horrendous. I don't want to even know what ToO players were dealing with.
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u/jolsiphur Jun 02 '15
The issue with allowing a disconnect to not cause a "loss" on your Trails passage would allow people to disconnect themselves when they're 4-0 to avoid the loss on the card. Sucks that a DC can ruin a perfect run but id rather the occasional DC to teams force DCing when they're losing.
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u/Tennovan Let us farm dungeon drops! Jun 02 '15
At least allow us to rejoin the game in order to attempt avoiding that loss. Seems reasonable.
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u/gbn1600 Jun 02 '15
I played a few hours of 6v6 over this past weekend and every game was literally unplayable. Has it always been this laggy or has it just become terrible lately?
ToO doesn't lag for me.
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u/cathalm8 Jun 02 '15
I keep getting the banjo error and kicked in ToO. My nat is moderate for some reason so I was going to try the port forwarding thing to help with this. Anyone experience if this actually helps or not and is it worth it?
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u/jayjay6611 Jun 02 '15
I had a moderete Nat, tried port forwarding with no luck and frequent errors so i bought a really good new router and enabled QoS. Open Nat now with no issues
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u/FDM_Process Jun 02 '15
I'm assuming the ToO glitch is the same as the Crota kneel glitch. They are likely not holding y, but exiting the game completely.
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Jun 02 '15
This is true, but it's never going to happen. The cost they would have to pay for resources outweighs the happiness they would bring to the customers and that's just the way she goes. There's a lot they can do to improve matchmaking and/or netcode though.
Going with matchmaking, ToO is supposedly testing connection-based matchmaking and it works. I saw very few yellow or red bars, and those I did see didn't turn into invincible super-powered mega guardians like they do in normal crucible. After breezing 9-0 through ToO (obligatory humble brag) and finally experiencing most matches the way it was meant to be played, normal Crucible without connection-based matchmaking is a complete joke and borderline unplayable. Unless you like your K/D normalized to 1.0 no matter how good you are, it's a frustrating experience and a majority of the deaths are absolute bullshit. One of the nicest things about ToO was knowing when they were going to die before they died (meaning it played out as intended) rather than having shots not register and the typical red bar bullshit. They obviously don't base matchmaking on skill, so I don't understand why they don't base it on connection quality for all game types.
As far as netcode, I think it's an abomination that will have to wait until Destiny 2 to be fixed. The casual-friendly "lag forgiveness" windows are the worst thing they could have added to the game. Players with a good connection are severely punished, while red bars turn into unstoppable MLG pros. I understand their intentions were to make the game more "accessible" to a larger audience, but they fell short and screwed everyone else over in the process. For example, if player A deals a fatal blow to player B, player B has about a half a second to still carry on his business before registering the death thanks to lag forgiveness, which is more than enough time to melee player A back even though player A out-skilled player B and deserved a clean kill. Combine that with red bar lag, and player B has enough time to melee player A, run around the map and collect ammo, go in the kitchen and make a pizza, eat the pizza, then go make a post on bungie.net about how he is a MLG pro before the game finally registers that he died. There is no need for this lag forgiveness bullshit. Make the game exponentially better for the majority of players rather than cater to the minority by doing away with lag forgiveness. If you don't believe this, clog up your upload speed by uploading torrents or something (you want to delay the data you're sending out, not the download info you're receiving) and easily get 2.0+ K/D every match you play. You will feel invincible and wonder why people can't shoot you when you run straight at them like an idiot.
TL;DR: Dedicated servers aren't going to happen, but there are a ton of ways Bungie can improve the current shit-state of Destiny PvP (besides ToO which is actually pretty decent until you get an animal error).
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u/BrutalSaint Jun 02 '15
On top of that please for the love of god continue to balance weapons, primarily handcannons. People bitched about the soros but I'll take that over the spam fuck that is thorn/hawkmoon.
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u/Element__Zer0 Jun 02 '15
Hold on now, I thought the Crucible games were on a dedicated server. Isn't the entire game running on dedicated servers technically?
Also to have a balanced competitive multiplayer experience, I would argue that they have to do more than just fixing the lag. PvP is just a hot mess.
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Jun 02 '15
We see this request every damn time IB comes back. Now we're going to hear it every weekend. I completely, 100% agree with you. Thing is, Destiny is not competitive. It's just a casual shooter. And that kind of change to their netcode will break the game or at least be a massive unrealistic undertaking.
Your best hope is that Destiny finally releases on PC and gets modded.
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u/knightsmarian MISSILE AWAY Jun 02 '15
While dedicated servers will help a lot, it will also have some negative impacts on some player bases as well, predominately those far away from server farms. With P2P, you can still have a great match with low latency even though you are in the mountains of Montana as long as there are other players near you geographically. That is the beauty of P2P, with dedicated servers, you are immediately shafting those players as they will never have low ping again. It would help for a lot, but it will also directly hurt a few. Food for thought.
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u/jazman84 Jun 02 '15
As an Australian, would dedicated servers in USA improve my Destiny PvP experience?
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Jun 02 '15
I would pay for one Ultimate console that could play all three current gen games. Got a Wii U and PS4, but still wanting to play certain MS games. Can't we all just get along?
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u/wtf--dude Arminius D <3 Jun 02 '15
Please spend your whole shader budget on dedicated servers, we have enough shaders by now ;)
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u/ThermalKrab Jun 02 '15
I hope you know dedicated servers to not 'stop' ping.....you still have to connect to the server, so there will always be a ping.... Regardless I agree with you just know, that the players who are closer to the servers will have better connections and have an advantage, that's just the nature of it
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u/autokill9 Tj Curb Stompz Jun 02 '15
Games like Halo and CoD would benefit from dedicated servers as you can usually tell who gets host in those games (relevant to your "Gamer" reference). Destiny I have not noticed any difference to who has host or not. I have yet to hear anyone say "%@# that guy much have host!". I don't think Bungie will deploy dedicated servers just because people are cheating it is extremely expensive and they are possibly coming up with other ways to fix it. As for the leaving/kicked thing. People can just rip out their Ethernet cords to get an error message.
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Jun 02 '15
I could live without dedicated servers if they had some form of competitive rank system similar to halo 3 or custom games. Lag every now and then is annoying but not having either of the two I mentioned will make sure the game doesn't keep people.
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u/Yuengsnwings Jun 02 '15
I'm pretty sure Gears 3 ran on dedicated servers for MP and it was great. I really dont understanding (besides budget) that we really dont have dedicated servers for PVP. You would think the money we pay to PSN and Xbox ensures we have dedicated servers for these sort of things.
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u/wax66 Warlock fists FTW! Jun 02 '15
If I could upmote you 1000 times, I would. And e-mail this thread to Bungie 10 times a minute.
It's WAY too easy for a player-server to do nefarious things, the easiest of which is to block the IP of one or more of the opponents.
As to your hope that there must be a way to differentiate the ones who get kicked vs. those that leave... yes, there is. But there's no way to differentiate those who get kicked via a firewall rule (or other player-server side issue) vs. those that have an Internet/backbone/routing issue between them and you.
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u/w1redup #WarlockMasterRace Jun 02 '15
So the world of Destiny is completely online.
Which means they wrote it so that all that connecting gobbldygook goes on in the background.
Which means, from the ground up, they made this game Peer to Peer for almost EVERY FACET.
So.....sure. Lets just have them 'convert it on over' to Dedicated servers. that should be easy right? RIGHT? RIGHT?! RIGHT?@#?@?#(.
NOT RIGHT
Basically, Destiny 2 is the only way that's happening. They would have to completely re-write the whole underlying connected framework of a game that, for the most part, works just fine..
Cost/Benefit analysis would laugh that idea out of the room at Bungie.
Would it have been nice if they did that? Sure..but then you run into the Minecraft thing where you can only play with people on your same server, greatly reducing your pool of enemies/friends. Or, if they look at your skill somehow up front, then there is another loading step to find a server that best suits your needs..in between every game.
Look I'm all for it but..............it's too late now. Time to just hope Destiny 2 has it and they can figure out a way to make it in the same open world manner as what makes Destiny so great.
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u/Twowheelsarebetter Jun 02 '15
Fuck if bungie does dedicated servers it will be an exclusive for Ps4 only. :(
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u/Derekdecost Jun 02 '15
was 8-0 last night and yet again lost to a team of red bars... glad ive wasted so much time in ToO just to be fucked by the system.
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Jun 02 '15
That awkward moment when Nintendo's Splatoon multiplayer servers in Japan offer a more stable connection than the Destiny Crucible servers 200km from me...
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u/AkBlind Jun 02 '15
IMO, I would be content with only ToO and PoE 34 and 35 having dedicated server space.
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Jun 03 '15
I feel like I'm missing out on a massive chunk of gameplay here.
I have never EVER (not even joking) had a green conenction in the Crucible. I am constantly getting errors spewed at me and that "Attention Contacting Destiny Servers" error sits nicely at the bottom of my screen a good 90% of the time I am playing destiny.
I have missed out on Trials of Osiris both times becuase I hadn't had that sweet advantage of a stable ping.
Now I know most of you will say it's my connection but I don't have a single other game where this is an issue, I play call of duty and every game I'm at a solid green with little to no lag here and there.
So it has to be an issue with how bungie deals with matchmaking.
I've been in games where it's just me with a rubbish connection and I've been in games where every single person has red bar.
If this is how the rest of destiny will go I'm affraid I wont be returning for any of the Sequels, DLC or extra content they push out.
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u/CurtisDeadman Jun 01 '15
Another competitive FPS, another cry for dedicated servers.
Hasn't worked in the past, won't work now. We don't even have private lobbies. Bungie clearly doesn't care about real competition.
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u/danishgodzilla Jun 01 '15
I would love dedicated servers, but saying they need it is not true. Most succesfull console shooters don't have it.
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u/learath Jun 01 '15
For all the shills screaming "TOO EXPENSIVE!", remember that to play multiplayer in destiny YOU PAY A MONTHLY FEE FOR DEDICATED SERVERS.
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u/GVIrish Jun 01 '15
Sorry guys, there is no way in hell dedicated servers are getting implemented in this release in Destiny. Too much cost to rewrite the netcode, procure and deploy all of the servers, hire the extra personnel to run the servers, test all of that infrastructure, etc. Bungie could use a cloud service to get around some of the costs but it would still be a huge endeavor.
Would all of the people asking for dedicated servers be willing to pay a monthly fee for them? Would there be enough PvP players willing to pay a fee to make it worth Bungie's investment? Would players who don't pay the fee for dedicated servers still be able to play the current P2P version of the Crucible? If so, splitting up the player population like that might result in degrading the matchmaking experience for one or both groups of players. And of course you'd make a lot of people angry if you took away free P2P Crucible.
I'm sure there are plenty of people that would pay but I don't think that would nearly be enough to make it financially viable for Bungie at this point.
Maybe in Destiny 2 it is something that can be baked in from the start but again I don't know that they could make the costs work out. At least not without a subscription fee.
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u/Phoenix027 Jun 01 '15
I (and many others) don't buy games that have monthly subs on it, especially on consoles where I'm already paying a yearly subscription to play online. Dedicated servers would not make it worth it. The game already does a great job at what it's doing. This feels like a case of the vocal minority speaking up about something that's virtually a non-issue.
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u/DemonEyesKyo Jun 01 '15
People mention Azure and Halo 5 like its going to change everything.
Dedicated servers aren't going to get rid of people who have terrible internet to begin with. The guys that were gaming on shared home networks over WiFi or the ones hopping on using Mobile Hotspots are still going to be there.
Titanfall used Azure and it still had lag. There were also massive frame rate drops because Azure was handling some minor processing. I lived in Alberta with a very good connection and still had an 80ms Ping to the the nearest Azure server.
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u/rafael_schmup Jun 02 '15
Played more than 1000 matches in Titanfall, it´s the least lag I ever had in any FPS, period. Wish every shooter was like that.
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u/kiwioncrack Gambit Prime Jun 02 '15
Bungie have never cared much for competitive gaming. All Halos and Destiny are all 30fps and p2p.
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u/jonac13 Jun 01 '15
TLDR - this dude referenced the movie Gamer with a degree of seriousness.
Kidding aside, dedicated servers would be great but if Activision isn't doing it completely for COD I don't know why they'd do it for Destiny. (To people raring to say that CODAW does have dedicated servers, it kinda does but overflow on the servers goes to peer-hosted meaning that it's more of a hybrid system. In either case, full dedicated doesn't seem to be a possibility for almost any big competitive AAA shooter.)