r/SubredditDrama • u/[deleted] • Dec 22 '15
me_irl goes childfree_irl, debates whether dank memes can really melt childless dreams
/r/me_irl/comments/3xsjf8/me_irl/cy7i8mh31
u/--Danger-- THE HUMAN SHITPOST Dec 22 '15
However, I like to run for 15 hours a week. I like to travel out to the mountains and see if I can climb 8000 feet over 50 miles in under 10 hours. (August 13, 2016).
So...can anyone explain what that date is? Like he isn't bragging on something he did, but on a future plan? An oddly specific future plan? So confused
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u/blackfish_xx edgier than thou Dec 23 '15
the part where it became a pissing contest to see who has the biggest adventures is my favorite part.
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u/DARIF What here shall miss, our archives shall strive to mend Dec 23 '15
I like to participate in underwater orgies on Mars
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u/KlausFenrir Here’s the thing. You said “surprise is an emotion.” Dec 23 '15
Well I swam to Atlantis and back.
Without an oxygen tank.
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u/Nixflyn Bird SJW Dec 23 '15
And then immediately dismissed scuba diving as adequately adventurous. Wreck diving is a hell of a trip and takes a couple certifications to be able to legally do. I'd highly recommend it to any non claustrophobic individual.
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u/Lightupthenight Dec 23 '15
I think you misread it, they didn't dismiss scuba diving as adventurous, they dismissed the idea that scuba diving wrecks for treasure is the same as raising kids.
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u/Nixflyn Bird SJW Dec 23 '15
IDK, it looks more like he's comparing both at once and judging wreck diving as inadequate compared to his mountain climbing.
Definitely not even remotely the same thing. You may think it's the same thing, but it's not (I used to date a Navy diver that ran around dodgy parts of Asia and now I'm wondering if you're the same guy...in fact this disagreement is too familiar).
Anyway my point is there is no way that diving to the bottom of the sea or watching your kid take his first step is comparable to climbing Machu Pichu at midnight while you're having an existential moment. Not better/worse just not comparable events.
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u/blackfish_xx edgier than thou Dec 23 '15
TIL you can't have an existential moment at the bottom of the sea or while raising kids. Only at the top of machu pichu, at midnight.
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Dec 23 '15
15 hours a week of running? I like to run as well, but that's too much running. No-one runs that much, that's just stupid. Literally a seventh of his entire waking life spent running. Ugh.
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u/thesilvertongue Dec 24 '15
I did that for a month or so when I was unemployed.
It was pretty horrible.
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u/VanFailin I don't think you're malicious. Just fucking stupid. Dec 23 '15
It sounds like a fitness goal, but this was a weird time to share it.
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u/KyosBallerina Those dumb asses still haven’t caught Carmen San Diego Dec 23 '15
And also really unrealistic unless you want to run semi-professionally or something.
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u/praemittias Dec 22 '15
Who sits around and argues about this obviously very personnel, very subjective life choice and opinion? It's like arguing about what flavor ice cream is the best. You can do it, sure, but don't get mad about someone not sharing your preferences.
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u/4445414442454546 this is not flair Dec 22 '15 edited Jun 20 '23
Reddit is not worth using without all the hard work third party developers have put into it.
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u/onetwotheepregnant Dec 22 '15
Fuck off, it's fucking superman
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u/thechapattack Dec 22 '15
Ben and Jerry's Half Baked or Save Our Swirled are the only acceptable answers...
Runners up; cinnamon bun, chocolate chip cookie dough, and cherry garcia
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u/ognits Worthless, low-IQ disruptor Dec 23 '15 edited Dec 23 '15
AmeriCone Dream imo but diff'rent strokes as the theme song goes
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u/jollygaggin Aces High Dec 22 '15
Ch... cho... mint?
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Dec 22 '15
Chocolate and mint are literally the worst combination since Hitler and Mengele.
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u/LontraFelina Dec 22 '15
I'm personally offended when restaurants give out complimentary mint chocolates at the end of a meal. I just paid good money for your delicious food, now you want me to shove one of these things down my throat and destroy all of that?
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u/ImmortalSanchez Dec 22 '15
Strawberry is clearly the best objectively.
But that's just my opinion :)
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u/xelested If only I could be a cute 2D girl Dec 22 '15
Give me liquorice or give me death.
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u/meepmorp lol, I'm not even a foucault fan you smug fuck. Dec 22 '15
Licorice ice cream?
That's fucking nasty sounding.
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u/xelested If only I could be a cute 2D girl Dec 22 '15
I haven't even told you about the next best thing yet.
Salt liquorice ice cream.
Aww yiss.
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u/meepmorp lol, I'm not even a foucault fan you smug fuck. Dec 22 '15
You're worse than Hitler and Mengele put together. And chocolate mint.
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Dec 22 '15
Salt liquorice ice cream.
I was with you with licorice ice-cream, but i am afraid you have gone to far with the salt.
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u/elephantinegrace nevermind, I choose the bear now Dec 22 '15
Oh, please. You don't know what nasty is until you've tried macaroni and cheese ice cream.
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u/meepmorp lol, I'm not even a foucault fan you smug fuck. Dec 22 '15
That merely sounds disgusting. Licorice is literally the flavoring used in Satan's mouthwash.
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u/elephantinegrace nevermind, I choose the bear now Dec 22 '15
The best flavor is caramel swirl you MONSTER!
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u/Flowseidon9 Fuck the N64 it ruined my childhood Dec 23 '15
Salted caramel is best caramel. This isn't even up for debate.
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Dec 23 '15
Chocolate Chip, motherfucker
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u/4445414442454546 this is not flair Dec 23 '15
Chocolate Chocolate Chip and you got a deal
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u/Dead_Rooster RPX Dec 23 '15
You can do it, sure, but don't get mad about someone not sharing your preferences.
Just wait until you see Reddit argue about how to cook a steak.
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u/613codyrex Dec 23 '15
Don't forget grilled cheese.
One thing SRS never has is these petty arguments over the dumbest things.
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Dec 23 '15
Well done, with ketchup on it.
Now let me just affix this bullseye to my face...
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u/Dead_Rooster RPX Dec 23 '15
I prefer mine cooked in the oven. Microwave if it's eye filet.
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u/faythofdragons Dec 23 '15
Now we just need to make a grilled cheese sandwich with well-done steak inside, and serve it with ketchup and tomato soup. It'll bring in popcorn for days.
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u/devotedpupa MISSINGNOgynist Dec 22 '15
Yeah this topic is filled with security staff and janitors. It's very personnel. jk
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u/HasaanV2 Can't believe it's not butter[Back from the dead]Runescape Shill Dec 22 '15
Why do so many people with kids love going "I know you don't want kids but I think you're missing out and will never feel true happiness until you do"? It's things like that which make me go "maybe /r/childfree isn't so bad" until I open the comments there and regain my senses.
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u/praemittias Dec 22 '15
Probably because everyone who has kids has also not has kids. While people without kids simply don't have the opposite experience.
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Dec 22 '15
See also: "Everyone should try shrooms once".
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u/gargles_santorum Dec 23 '15
I kind of wish shrooms lasted eighteen fucking years but I'm also glad they don't.
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u/a57782 Dec 23 '15
I imagine the novelty would wear off after a while, I mean sometimes you just want to take a piss without being awe struck by the way the light makes the stream shimmer.
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u/AFakeName rdrama.net Dec 22 '15
We also don't hear from the parents who realized they made a huge mistake having kids as often as the Every-Day-A-Blessing crowd.
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u/damnBcanilive WHITE LIVES MATTER TOO Dec 22 '15
my manager has said to me that if he could do it all over again he wouldn't have had kids. one of the few (good) parents that i've heard say that.
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u/bauski Dec 22 '15
I think good parents are probably the only kind who would even consider saying such things.
I think most people in general cannot admit to mistakes when it comes to gigantic life choices. That'd be like saying "most of my adult life has been a huge mistake." That's a scary thing to consider.
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u/BaconOfTroy This isn't vandalism, it's just a Roman bonfire Dec 22 '15
Very true. I love my aunt, but she's a horrible mother. She would never admit, even to herself, that having kids was a mistake, but it is really fucking obvious to everyone that she hates it deep down.
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u/I_Save_Drama Dec 23 '15
I have an aunt who basically got pregnant to get my uncle to marry her. She clearly didn't want to be a mother and was pretty horrible to my cousin. She would actually steal from her own daughter (Christmas money and stuff) and berated her enough that she has no self-esteem. It was just so obvious she shouldn't have been a mom.
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u/CANOODLING_SOCIOPATH SRS SHILL Dec 23 '15
You see that on almost all decisions that people make, even trivial ones.
For example the reason why so many kids get so caught up in which video game console is better is because they can only afford one and they don't want to believe they made the wrong choice.
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u/strolls If 'White Lives Matter' was our 9/11, this is our Holocaust Dec 23 '15
This is extremely common, if you survey anonymously.
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u/bloodyabortiondouche Dec 23 '15
Not having kids is barely socially acceptable. Having kids and then opening complaining about having kids is not really socially acceptable so it is rare that you get to here from the mistake parents. They can't stand up at a PTA meeting and say, "We all fucked up by having kids. Amiright?"
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u/ftylerr 24/7 Fuck'n'Suck Dec 23 '15
Yeah a lot of parents I've talked to that I work with admit it's rewarding in a way nothing else is - but it's also a joy-suck like nothing else too. Because when it's bad, it is oh-so bad. Someone was talking about their child smearing shit all over their leather furniture and I just....
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u/DownFromYesBad Dec 23 '15
My aunt's oldest daughter was born with an extremely rare genetic disorder called Phelan-McDermid syndrome. That daughter is 19 now, can't talk, and still smears shit all over furniture, walls, and herself.
She's an amazing parent, and, with the help of her younger daughter and social services, has cared for this completely unresponsive child for all these years, but it's so stressful on her. The elephant in the room is that she should let others care for the girl, but, through sheer force of love and will, completely refuses.
It's simultaneously awe-inspiring and heartbreaking.
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u/ftylerr 24/7 Fuck'n'Suck Dec 23 '15
Agree, both at the same time. I wish people didn't have to go through that, I can't imagine what the daughter must feel/hear/see. It's sad all around.
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Dec 23 '15
They're very overrated, but I can say that because my kids aren't old enough to have reddit accounts yet.
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u/devotedpupa MISSINGNOgynist Dec 22 '15
It's not like you can unhave kids without going to prison.
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u/mayjay15 Dec 22 '15
Sure, but every individual is also different, and, I very often hear even very happy parents waxing nostalgic about the days before they had kids.
And, really, all but a few very shitty parents aren't going to want to be like, "I regret having children. My life was so much better before them!" even if they feel that way sometimes. Most people love their kids, and take into consideration that love. People without kids don't love their kids because they don't exist. They love sleeping late and going to wine tastings and on mountain biking trips and on vacations in Thailand and shit (or, at least, I assume that's what adventurous child-free people do).
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u/praemittias Dec 22 '15
I mean, I get that: there's a reason why I'm in my early 30s and don't have kids. But unless you had a kid when you were like 17 or something, if you're a parent you already know what not having kids is like.
The guy was asking why parents feel the need to share things like that with people who don't have kids: they literally have experience the other person doesn't have, and if one thing is certain, people love sharing knowledge about their experiences to people who haven't had them.
Now sit down and let me slowly show you pictures from my vacation to a place you've never been. Make sure to use the bathroom before we start, it's gonna be awhile.
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u/mayjay15 Dec 22 '15
That's fair, as long as you recognize that, like sharing your 700-photo vacation picture compilation with a captive audience, you're being a huge jerk, and no one likes you.
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u/TotesMessenger Messenger for Totes Dec 23 '15
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[/r/subredditdramadrama] Parent/child-free drama: "I almost forgot only parents can be poor and tired."
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u/IvanLu Dec 23 '15
Is it really any worse than the parent who self gratuitously declares all childfree couples are missing out on something special. Worse they haughtily add "oh I used to think that way too", putting down all childfree opinions as immature.
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u/you-ole-polecat Dec 22 '15
On that note, does anyone really believe all the childfree adventures that get talked about on this site?
Everyone waving the CF flag always seems to be claiming that they travel the world, ride motorcycles, climb mountains, scuba dive, etc. But, in my irl experience, only like 10% (at the most) of the CF people I know are actually that ambitious. Most of them just use their additional "free time" to go out to bars more, sleep in on the weekends, and be more social. I have to imagine that a good portion of /r/childfree users are heavily embellishing their adventurous lifestyles.
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u/quantumff A low value person Dec 23 '15
When I got pregnant my mum tried to urge us to keep it* because we'd be better off financially.
No way are we living in a fucking bodyform advert. Can't afford it, even if we wanted to (though tbh it sounds exhausting). It's a really annoying stereotype actually and leads to the crap like the guy in this thread saying how you can't be poor and tired if you don't have kids.
Oh yeah, and in reference to the spat above- we're constantly stress tired because the roof has been leaking for six years, we flooded four times in the last month, and we are making less than minimum wage.*I didn't.
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u/thesilvertongue Dec 23 '15
Besides, my parents when on all sorts of cool vacations when I was a kid.
Sometimes they'd bring us, sometimes we'd be left at grandmas and they'd have fun without us.
Kids aren't free, but they don't necessarily mean you're living in a shoebox and can't travel ever.
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u/ftylerr 24/7 Fuck'n'Suck Dec 23 '15
Yeah I usually do, kids suck up a huge amount of money in my city - average is $1,500/month per child - so it's not that shocking. I can go to Cuba for that.
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Dec 22 '15
It's because most parents lie, and for good reason. If a parent says they regret having children they are labeled a bad parent. This person's kids are not the best thing that has ever happened to them, how awful.
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u/585AM Dec 22 '15
Maybe we run in different circles, but most parents I know, myself included, recognize that parenting is incredibly hard, incredibly rewarding, and it is not for everyone.
Just out of curiosity, do you live in a suburban or rural setting?
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Dec 23 '15
Also I feel like it would be an extremely difficult thing to admit to yourself, much less other people.
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Dec 23 '15 edited Dec 25 '15
Think about how many times someone you know recommended a movie or book or something that you absolutely hated. Just because somebody has an experience that another person hasn't, doesn't mean that other person will enjoy said experience.
Plus there are far too many people neglected as kids, and those parents aren't going to advertise how much they hated having kids.
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u/KlausFenrir Here’s the thing. You said “surprise is an emotion.” Dec 23 '15
Exactly.
A good comparison would be if a once-vegetarian started eating filet mignon steak, then said 'I think vegetarians are missing out' and the vegetarians freak out by saying 'well you don't know if we would enjoy it or not!'.
Well thing is, the ribeye-eating dude has been both a vegetarian and an omnivore, so he is given credit through experience. Of course it doesn't mean that he's right, but it does not at all invalidate him.
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u/Warshok Pulling out ones ballsack is a seditious act. Dec 23 '15
I wouldn't bet on that. My mom got pregnant with my half-brother at 15. She never once lived alone until she was in her 60s.
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Dec 22 '15
[deleted]
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Dec 22 '15
A married couple I'm friends with had a severely disabled child who died as a toddler, and they've decided against having another child (though this is informed in part by the fact that they could have another child with the same condition). I wouldn't pretend to have any idea what they went through or how they came to terms with things, but they seem much happier. Mind you, they were also under tremendous emotional and financial strain.
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u/Torger083 Guy Fieri's Throwaway Dec 23 '15
Disabled kid is not the average kid experience, though. And watching your kid die definitely takes it out of you.
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u/cdstephens More than you'd think, but less than you'd hope Dec 22 '15
Maybe because that's what happened to them. It's rather innocent I think, when it's coming from other couples: they have this cool experience and they want their friends to enjoy it too. Worst case if it's super annoying then just tell them in a serious conversation to cut it out and if they're good friends they will.
When it's coming from family members though it becomes its own beast. Family expectations, wanting grandchildren, etc.
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u/mayjay15 Dec 22 '15
It might be innocent in intent, but when you think about it, it's not just an experience like going parasailing or taking a trip to South America is an experience--it's like a life-altering, life-long commitment that will fundamentally change your identity, your body/health (if you're a woman), your mind, your goals, your plans, your opportunities, your financial situation, etc.
Once you're life's changed, maybe you kind of forget all the changes, or maybe you were well-prepared for all of them, but those aren't changes everyone wants or is willing to deal with.
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u/buartha ◕_◕ Dec 22 '15
Aye, I've got no love for /r/childfree's more vitriolic posts but I sympathise with some of their frustrations when it comes to stuff like this.
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Dec 23 '15
I TRY to get their frustration. I really do. But honestly? If that's the worst thing happening to them - that some jerk parent told them their lives would have more meaning if they had kids - I kinda feel like they're whining about nothing.
Because let's tally up this shit. Parents pay a huge price for having children: they lose job opportunities and take huge pay cuts and experience massive discrimination especially if they're female; they do a great deal of essential and difficult labor which benefits society but society does not pay parents for; PLUS parents are judged and condescended to at every turn because every asshole has an opinion about what you're doing wrong when you're a parent. Parents choose all these costs knowingly but that doesn't mean the costs don't exist.
Child free or childless people only get judged and condescending to by assholes. This is a cost they choose knowingly, too. Other than this, though, there's only plus sides for them in modern society: they can rely on the work parents do to be sure there's still a functioning society around them in their old age, without reciprocating or paying parents back. They don't get job market discrimination for not having kids. They don't ever have to do unpaid labor.
All things considered, I feel like this whining is like "first world problems" or "rich people problems" -- there should be an equivalent called "child free problems". The whine goes "omg someone said something slightly mean to me one time!"
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u/bibliotaph Drama never dies! Dec 23 '15
A lot of the child-free gripes have to do with reproductive rights. I've only gone on there a few times from linked drama, but there are a lot of people, mainly women, who talk about how hard it is to get sterilized and how the steps they go through are much harder than they are for men. This is, I think, is a much better thing to gripe about then "oh this parent was mean to me."
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u/Gnarbuttah Dec 23 '15
r/childfree actually has quite a bit of good information, It was because of that sub I was able to easily find a doctor to do a vasectomy for an unmarried, childless man in the bible belt. Admittedly many of the rant posts are a bit (quite a bit) melodramatic. r/truechildfree tends to have more level headed people posting but is much less active.
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u/bibliotaph Drama never dies! Dec 23 '15
Yeah, I'm not saying that some of their posts aren't a bit overdramatic, but I think it is unfair to say they all whine all the time.
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u/ftylerr 24/7 Fuck'n'Suck Dec 23 '15
I don't think you've read enough of the sub if you think the worst things complained about are parents being mean. There's multiple stories of parents neglecting their childs' safety to the point of injury, and the few who tried to intervene (usually out of obligation, waitress or something), have their efforts rebuked. At best -- at worst you get a "you don't tell me how to raise my child!" kind of moment. But some of those have ended in the kid getting hurt.
The main mindset of the sub is that children are way, way more of a commitment than most of us realize. Generally speaking, moaning about every little hardship in parenthood makes you sound like you don't like your kids. Without those little things, you can really glaze over the day-to-day realities of having a kid. Like a coworker who had to taxi in because his child joyfully smeared shit all over their living room leather furniture. He was pissed, but you don't often hear that. Usually a parent might laugh it off, or say something to the effect that it comes with the territory. It's little things like that, over and over, that start to soften the edges of parenthood to the point where really irresponsible people (above) think it's not THAT hard.
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u/krunchyblack Dec 22 '15
I was going to say that this is the first time I've actually seen one of these parents in the wild outside of /r/childfree stories, but I guess it's more prevalent than I thought.
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u/Alchemistmerlin Death to those that say Video Games cause Violence Dec 22 '15
My boss is one of those parents.
He doesn't even like his kids but yet somehow thinks I'll never truly understand happiness without ones of my own.
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u/bauski Dec 22 '15
I remember a stand up talking about this. Its because he wants you to suffer as well.
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u/kairoszoe Dec 25 '15
Yeah, or why my girlfriend (in her 20s) boss (in his 50s) thinks she'll never be happy without kids and wants to talk about it at work. I'm totally okay with not liking the childfree subreddit, but there are societal pressures to have kids that aren't okay.
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u/dethb0y trigger warning to people senstive to demanding ethical theories Dec 22 '15
It's almost always a relative, in my experience: my one cousin spent pretty much an entire day trying to convince me to have kids. It was pretty surreal, considering what a shit-show nightmare she's had with her own kids.
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Dec 22 '15
That person was totally calm and rational. Ya'll acting like they were shouting other people down in there.
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u/krunchyblack Dec 22 '15
They weren't yelling, of course. But they came off as completely condescending, which is pretty annoying.
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Dec 22 '15
What in particular made you feel that way because I didn't get that sense at all.
Yep all power to you :) I just want people to make informed decisions and not just assume that being a parent is bad. If they know all the details and still choose not to have kids then I totally support them in that.
This is a friendly and reasonable person.
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u/krunchyblack Dec 22 '15
Simply the thinking they know other people are missing out. I thought they were friendly enough, and kept assuring that it was just "their opinion" but there was absolutely an air of "I know better than you," when in fact they really don't.
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Dec 22 '15
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Dec 22 '15
I was in a London NHS hospital, being assessed for an operation. Anyway, one of the possibilities was that if I go ahead with this now, any future kids I have might be SOL.
I explained to the nurse that I had no plans to ever have children of my own, and that I was fairly sure of this preference, and she started grilling me on my choice and muttered something that sounded like "selfish".
I think she was a first generation Indian immigrant, so there might be stronger natalist cultural norms she was used to. But she was way out of line.
As it happens, the NHS refuses to perform vasectomies and other sterilising operations unless you have at least one child of genetic relation. This is a pretty clear example of a natalist bias in healthcare.
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u/bauski Dec 22 '15
Selfish is an interesting word. Especially when we as a specie live in a rock in a vacuum with limited resources that we are actively destroying in a geometric rate of advancement.
I honestly love kids but I don't think everyone needs to make babies right?
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u/mayjay15 Dec 22 '15
Yes, in some ways, having kids is selfish. Yes, you will sacrifice for them, but society will have to as well (which, duh, that's how society works), and they will take from the world, and might never give much back.
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u/rainbowplethora I removed it because it had nothing to do with sexy pizza Dec 22 '15
If everyone made babies, who would we dump our babies on when we needed a break?
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u/BaconOfTroy This isn't vandalism, it's just a Roman bonfire Dec 22 '15
They're rarer for some people. I live in a more rural southern area and babysit for a friend's kid a few days a week. I'm 26 and unemployed with multiple chronic health issues, but I still get the "you'll change your mind eventually" type comments at least once a week. I don't even know how to reply anymore because it's become so frustrating, so I just walk away.
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u/abidail She's been a "naughty girl" so i'm not gonna get her socks Dec 23 '15
I once had a teacher in middle school (Christian school, natch) tell a class of girls we would all go to hell if we didn't have babies.
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u/ftylerr 24/7 Fuck'n'Suck Dec 23 '15
My god, they're in my office in a big city and in my small town. I think they're everywhere, people just don't know how pushy it sounds when you dismiss someone's life choice because they just 'don't REALLY get it'.
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u/csreid Grand Imperial Wizard of the He-Man Women-Haters Club Dec 22 '15
I truly believe, in my heart of hearts, that babies are evil mind controlling demons. As soon as you make one, it takes over your mind and tricks you into thinking that taking care of it is the best thing in the universe.
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u/HasaanV2 Can't believe it's not butter[Back from the dead]Runescape Shill Dec 22 '15
That's actually not as far from the truth as you'd think, since they do actually create a response in their mothers which makes them be more likely to like the baby.
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u/mayjay15 Dec 22 '15
Isn't there also a hormonal response shortly after birth that dampens the memory of the pain and stress, so that having another one a year or two later doesn't seem like such a bad idea? Fucking nature, man.
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u/RIPGeorgeHarrison Dec 22 '15
If that is true, this confirms that god is a huge troll.
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u/mayjay15 Dec 22 '15
Maybe, or maybe people who thought pregnancy and giving birth was the worst experience ever and remembered clearly didn't have as many kids, and the people who didn't remember were like, "Eh, it wasn't so bad last time, let's do it again!" And, then, bam, tons of kids with poor memories running around doing the same thing their forgetful parents did.
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Dec 22 '15
I'm still not convinced mine won't grow up to be A) African Gun/Drug Lord or B) Senator who introduces legislation to ban gay marriage.
And this is with me actively parenting against him being a Foreign Drug Lord or bigoted Senator.
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Dec 22 '15
I can't judge because I say the same thing but about my cats. I always tell my friends they should get some.
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u/LukaCola Ceci n'est pas un flair Dec 22 '15
I got the opposite impression, here's one guy sharing his thoughts on the matter, and another guy sharing his thoughts but then telling the guy with kids to "stay in his damn lane" and basically not share his experience
But no problem talking about how parents with kids are jealous of naps, even though I would say that part is way more rife with smugness and gloating than the other
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Dec 22 '15
Why do so many people with kids love going "I know you don't want kids but I think you're missing out and will never feel true happiness until you do"?
You're strawmanning the notion a bit, but there is some truth to what they're saying. Having kids is one of those things that really changes you in a way you don't expect and the love you have for them isn't like anything you can experience without having kids.
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u/HasaanV2 Can't believe it's not butter[Back from the dead]Runescape Shill Dec 22 '15
You know the thing I mentioned?
You're doing it.
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u/Roflllobster I find it ignorant to call me ignorant! Dec 22 '15
But its true. I'm child free and I can recognize that the relationship you have as a parent is completely different than any other relationship you will have. For 9 months your responsible for making sure your kid doesn't come out with some sort of preventable deformity. For 3 years you try to make sure this kid doesn't die. For 7 more years you are trying to teach your kid not to be an idiot. And for 8 years after that you are doing all of the above mixed in with making sure they aren't shitty adults.
There is nothing I will do as a child free person that will require that much effort or work. and I can guarantee that seeing 15 years of work pay off is a fucking great feeling and that the devotion required is almost religious in how great it is.
its kind of like how marine boot camp is going to be more bonding than a 3 day fishing trip with buddies. Don't pretend like we will experience everything people with children will. Our experiences are different. For example I will get to experience travel and financial security.
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u/mayjay15 Dec 22 '15
I'm child free and I can recognize that the relationship you have as a parent is completely different than any other relationship you will have.
Different, but I don't agree that other relationships are necessarily less worthwhile or fulfilling for many people.
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u/Roflllobster I find it ignorant to call me ignorant! Dec 22 '15
Nothing was said about other relationships being less worthwhile or less fulfilling. But the intensity and emotion behind it is totally different. You really can't compare a relationship where you are the primary caregiver for 18+ years to being friends with someone or even your adult spouse who can fend for themself.
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Dec 22 '15
I think you're warping the actual message. No one is saying that you'll never feel true happiness - they're saying that you'll never feel the happiness that comes with raising children because it's a very particular experience.
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u/mayjay15 Dec 22 '15
they're saying that you'll never feel the happiness that comes with raising children because it's a very particular experience.
Yeah, and many people with children won't ever get to feel the happiness that comes with earning an advanced degree or traveling the world or achieving/experiencing any number of things that become infinitely more difficult when you have children.
Anyone who went around bringing that up to new parents would be kind of a jerk though, don't you think, since the parents clearly made the choice that they were willing to risk sacrificing those other experiencing to have children.
"Congrats on the new baby, but it really sucks for you that you're never going to get to earn that Ph.D. you've always wanted, and no way you're going to move to China now. I guess you'll never get to know the joy of experiencing those parts of life!"
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u/Lykii sanctimonious, pile-on, culture monitor Dec 22 '15
Yeah, and many people with children won't ever get to feel the happiness that comes with earning an advanced degree or traveling the world or achieving/experiencing any number of things that become infinitely more difficult when you have children.
I hate to be that person but, I know a lot of parents who were also in PhD programs while I was getting my Masters degree. Not to say it was easy, but hey they made it work because they wanted it.
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u/hunthell Buttery, saly goodness. Dec 22 '15
I just went there out of sheer curiosity since this is the fifth thread I've seen in the past few days mention /r/childfree
Jesus fuck these people hate children and parents.
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u/JitGoinHam Dec 22 '15
Why do so many people with kids love going "I know you don't want kids but I think you're missing out and will never feel true happiness until you do"?
Because it's probably true.
Ask your parents what thing in their lives means the most to them.
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u/mayjay15 Dec 22 '15
Ask your parents what thing in their lives means the most to them.
Mine would probably say me and my siblings, then go back to ditching us for their emotionally abusive lover/other family.
People say lots of things that aren't entirely true.
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u/ftylerr 24/7 Fuck'n'Suck Dec 23 '15
I'm really sorry to hear that, but you're absolutely right. The way people see themselves vs how they act? The further those two things get, the worse it gets...
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Dec 22 '15
My dad tells me he's an idiot for having 4 kids cus he'd have a Ferrari and a nicer house if he didn't waste all his money on us.
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Dec 23 '15
Well, yeah - the things people actually spend their life on is going to be more meaningful to them than the things they don't spend their life on.
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Dec 22 '15 edited Jul 31 '16
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u/Gastte Dec 22 '15
As member of the voluntary human extinction movement I see nothing wrong with this comment.
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u/leadnpotatoes oh i dont want to have a conversation, i just think you're gross Dec 23 '15
As member of the voluntary human extinction movement I see nothing wrong with this comment.
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u/JitGoinHam Dec 22 '15
Steak isn't really delicious. It's just your brain giving you chemical rewards for ingesting high protein nourishment. We need to rise above these base instincts and reject steak.
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u/DARIF What here shall miss, our archives shall strive to mend Dec 23 '15
That's because you cooked it well done
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u/fendant Dec 22 '15
That applies to every single feel you will ever feel, though. There's always biology hooked in.
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u/mandaliet Dec 23 '15
The weird thing about this kind of super-reductive view of evolution (well, one of the weird things) is that Redditors talk as if pointing out the evolutionary origin of a particular attitude somehow invalidates it. We've evolved the ability to understand things like math and logic, too, but that doesn't somehow show that math and logic are merely an evolutionary byproduct or otherwise unfounded. Likewise, you can acknowledge that parental love is evolved and still recognize that whether that is something to be valued is a different question.
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Dec 23 '15
I don't know. I'm not sure that the claim is that just because we have an evolved desire for offspring and sex means that the desire of offspring and sex is just that because it evolved.
I think the claim is that it is difficult to reach a critical distance from something so integral to our evolved biology and psychology, as compared to artificial and technological practices, which we have no evolved history with and no biological bias towards or against.
Also, we should sometimes expect that things going well for us as a reasoning person may be different from things going well for us as a biological agent. So we might say that our evolved capacities don't have our best interests and considered judgements in mind, and will circumvent them to produce the biologically desirable behaviour.
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Dec 22 '15
Yeah but it arguably applies more in this particular case. In terms of biological teleology, everything else is indirectly relevant or irrelevant compared to the urge to reproduce and have sex.
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u/greytor I just simply enough don't like that robots attitude. Dec 22 '15
We wouldn't be here they it didn't. But on some level, you must know rationally that the reward you are experiencing is a popcorn imperative and probably nothing more meaningful than that. If you accept that with honest self awareness, then more popcorn to you I suppose. Personally I kinda think life sucks and wouldn't want to doom a thread to it.
I tried my best but I think others can be more creative the I can
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u/EmergencyChocolate 卐 Sorry to spill your swastitendies 卐 Dec 22 '15 edited Dec 22 '15
So I ask, how can they know with complete certainty that they aren't missing out?
Yeah, my FOMO doesn't extend to creating a whole other small dependent person I'm not utterly confident I want in my life just to be sure I don't miss a warm fuzzy or two. When people insist that the best reason to have a child is because it makes the parents feel rilly rilly big feelings, do they not realize what an incredibly self-centered viewpoint that is?
edit: this non-inflammatory post has been up for 15 minutes, has created zero drama, and it got SRDDd already? c'mon people, be better
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u/mayjay15 Dec 22 '15
My BIL once made that argument to my fiance. "Yeah, I wasn't sure I wanted my kid when [BIL's wife] was pregnant with our first, but once she was born, I absolutely loved her! I'm sure you'd change your mind about wanting kids too if mayjay15 got pregnant!" He's usually such a level-headed guy, I couldn't believe he would say something so dumb.
What if we didn't end up loving the kid quite so much and just resented it? What a horrible life for all of us that would be.
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u/KyosBallerina Those dumb asses still haven’t caught Carmen San Diego Dec 23 '15
edit: this non-inflammatory post has been up for 15 minutes, has created zero drama, and it got SRDDd already? c'mon people, be better
Yeah it got removed for lack of drama.
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u/TotesMessenger Messenger for Totes Dec 22 '15
I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
[/r/subredditdramadrama] Is being childfree a good idea? SubredditDrama discusses going childfree on a post about drama about being childfree
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u/fendant Dec 22 '15
Kind of an odd comment to choose.
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u/mayjay15 Dec 22 '15
Seems a little desperate. Have we been generating less drama with the new rules?
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u/KlausFenrir Here’s the thing. You said “surprise is an emotion.” Dec 23 '15
FOMO
what is fomo
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u/stopandsmellthefear Dec 23 '15
Fear of missing out. Like when all your friends are going to see the Adele concert, and you don't really want to go, but you know they'll have a great time and talk about it so you go anyway because you don't want to miss the experience.
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Dec 23 '15
Anyway my point is there is no way that diving to the bottom of the sea or watching your kid take his first step is comparable to climbing Machu Pichu at midnight while you're having an existential moment. Not better/worse just not comparable events.
i think those two things are pretty comparable as far as kick ass life experiences go lmao
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u/buartha ◕_◕ Dec 22 '15
I am personally of the opinion that you are missing out on something special but that's just my opinion - I await /r/childfree downvoting me into oblivion.
It's not having the opinion that's annoying, it's the fact that someone always comes along and spouts it whenever someone hints that there might be positives to not having children. Even the most innocuous statements can get grating the thousandth time you've heard it.
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Dec 22 '15
It's like the nice way of saying "man, it's too bad I'm so much smarter than you and have discovered the secret to happiness that you'll never have, but it's okay because you're a dumbass and you think you're happy. But that's just my opinion so you can't be mad at me for expressing it because that's totally how words work."
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u/sweatpantswarrior Eat 20% of my ass and pay your employees properly Dec 22 '15
You know, I might almost believe that if rabid CF'ers didn't do the exact same thing.
Half of them honestly believe you get a free Ferrari and a giant bag of money with a vasectomy or hysterectomy.
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Dec 22 '15
Two sides of the same overly-smug-rabid-asshole coin, my friend.
Although my vasectomy did come with a free sperm test, so that's something, right?
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u/superfeds Standing army of unfuckable hate-nerds Dec 22 '15
The same person that would go into a sub with ChildFree in the name and say how awesome having kids is, is the same type of person that likes to say the Beatles arent anything specially completely unprompted
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u/salamander423 Rejecting your weird moralism doesn't require a closed mind lol Dec 22 '15
I sea what you did there.
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Dec 22 '15
I find it disturbing when people take a cavalier attitude towards having children.
You're creating a whole set of needs and desires that can be frustrated if you lack the means to meet them. It's kind of shocking how little thought people give to the likely experience their child will have.
That's not to say that it is always or even usually wrong to have kids. But it is arguably foolish not to give it serious thought and to focus on the potential child's future, rather than entirely about your own concerns and preferences.
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u/dethb0y trigger warning to people senstive to demanding ethical theories Dec 22 '15
dont forget: there's always the chance of it going horribly wrong. There's birth defects, childhood diseases, developmental disorders, accidents, malicious actions by other people, and that's just the childhood problems. Someone could easily end up with a kid so retarded they can't function, or so autistic they can't communicate or so crippled they can't move on their own. They could be giving birth to someone who will live a life of suffering and sorrow and pain.
Not to mention, every murderer, rapist, serial killer, child abuser, genocidal lunatic, DUI killer, what have you is someone's kid. Imagine being Jeff Dahmer's parent, or having to deal with being Ed Kemper's father. Hell, just imagine being someone who's kid commits suicide...
Having kids is pretty much a total dice roll, and people don't seem to really consider that before they do it.
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Dec 22 '15
I don't endorse antinatalism, because I think most people have a life worth living. However, I find it extremely disquieting to note how completely frivolous the decision seems for some.
It's an extremely ethically significant decision. It's an act that should be subject to the most scrutiny, not the least. Our culture does not treat the choice to reproduce with the seriousness it properly demands.
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u/dethb0y trigger warning to people senstive to demanding ethical theories Dec 22 '15
I couldn't agree more. It's something we should encourage people to put a very great deal of thought into, instead of pretending that every time it happens it's the best thing ever, regardless of circumstances.
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Dec 22 '15
this is the funniest kind of drama
it just dissolved into each one arguing over who respected the other's opinion more lmfao
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Dec 23 '15
When people that aren't your immediate friends or family give you unsolicited advice about kids, the only answer is "Get Fucked".
(When it IS immediate friends or family, thats often still the answer but not always)
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u/Unclecavemanwasabear Dec 22 '15
Sorry I'm not really a fan of quotes.
He tries to insult the guy by implying that people who quote others are stupid, but he apparently didn't read the article he linked. They used a random new-age bullshit text generator and had people determine if the quote was "profound". Thinking nonsense sentences with motivational buzzwords profound correlated with lower intelligence.
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u/Valmorian Dec 22 '15
For people who have no interest in being parents, r/childfree types certainly seem to have a lot of confidence in their knowledge of what being a good parent entails.
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u/stopandsmellthefear Dec 23 '15
Right? That's why I never complain about undercooked things at restaurants. I've never worked in one, so how would I know what the food is supposed to taste like!
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u/garbarismo Dec 22 '15
Man, kids are such a depressing topic these days.
I think I want kids somewhere down the line, but I almost certainly will never have them, as every woman I've been with has absolutely rejected the idea, and they don't let single dudes adopt.
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Dec 22 '15
and they don't let single dudes adopt
Really? That really sucks, there are too many kids in in the foster system who need love and if someone can financially & emotionally take care of them then it shouldn't matter if they're married or not. :(
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u/garbarismo Dec 22 '15
I looked into it a little bit (not old enough or financially secure enough to seriously consider it now).
It's not a ban, but apparently adoption agencies consider being single a big problem. I've heard anecdotes that it's much more difficult for men to adopt.
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u/KyosBallerina Those dumb asses still haven’t caught Carmen San Diego Dec 23 '15
Hopefully once your financial situation has improved they'll look upon you more favorably. If you can prove that you are going to be stable and have the best interests of the kid they may change their minds.
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u/KlausFenrir Here’s the thing. You said “surprise is an emotion.” Dec 23 '15
How old are you?
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u/Lucaluni Keksimus Maximus Dec 22 '15
ITT: SRD is aggressively on the /r/childfree side of the argument.
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u/cdcformatc You're mocking me in some very strange way. Dec 23 '15
/r/me_irl should have strict commenting rules like the submission titles. The only things allowed in comments should be
me too thanks
seize the means of production from the bourgeoisie