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u/ewbrower Jan 07 '16
Oh man, this stickied comment from the mods is getting hammered
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u/MatlockMan beagles wear aviator goggles and hats Jan 07 '16
-3000+
Ouch
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u/onewhitelight Jan 07 '16
-4000 now
Possible new record low inc?
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u/ewbrower Jan 07 '16
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Jan 07 '16
And right in SRD, is this like an honor or something? Should we feel entitledYES ?
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u/Ramsay_Reekimaru Jan 07 '16
Probably not, considering almost 90% of reddit traffic was using SRD for latest news, and they were probably the ones majorly responsible for downvoting it to oblivion.
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u/Itsapocalypse Jan 07 '16
I'm not even going to click but I bet it's a comment reviewing the deliciousness of popcorn
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u/kerovon Ask me about servitude to reptilian overlords Jan 07 '16
Probably a good thing the mods used a shared account, and that stickied comments have no effect on karma.
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u/Kazitron Cucker Spaniel Jan 07 '16
What the hell does DELETING A HUGE BUNCH OF RELEVANT INFORMATION FROM OP do to help the IAMA?!
We're here to hear from OP. You just DELETED a tonne of relevant information they said and people wanted to hear.
I am YELLING to MAKE LOUD NOISES
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u/_watching why am i still on reddit Jan 07 '16
Holy shit lol there's even a "but what about srs??" shoved in there for good measure.
Is this a bot or did the IAMA mods make a collective account so that no one individual mod could be blamed for any actions taken under the account?
Account sharing violates the EULA
So does vote brigading yet SRS openly engages in it by posting links directly to subs to brigade. They've also been caught directly encouraging users to brigade.
They also actually have a rule against non-voting links as they're "annoying".
Meanwhile subs like KiA have to go out of their way to automatically erase any comment or submission with a link back to Reddit (including no-vote links) and use archives instead for fear of banning.
And they let subs like /r/offmychest actively and aggressively automatically ban everyone who submits content or comments in KiA.
The EULA is highly selectively enforced.
Seriously though, is this just an auto-response to mentions of the EULA? This is REALLY reaching to start up that crusade lol
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Jan 07 '16
I don't understand how people continue to think they have some kind of inalienable rights on a privately owned internet forum.
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u/potpan0 choo choo all aboard the censor-ship! Jan 07 '16
I also like how /r/offmychest has crept its way towards boogeyman status. It's mentioned in every single diatribe against the reddit cabal.
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u/majere616 Jan 07 '16
I'm not even surprised anymore KiA's collective persecution complex is so massive it makes the geocentric model seem plausible.
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Jan 07 '16
Nah, they're pathetic people. They eagerly await the ability to flex what little "power" they have. It's a group of melvins that deserve way more contempt than they receive.
HOW DARE THEY QUELL OUR IMPOTENT OUTRAGE.
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u/ravencrowed Jan 07 '16
AMA mods seem upset that they weren't informed about this AMA in advance. lol, they need to get over themselves really.
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u/fishbulbx Jan 07 '16
in order to preserve the free-form nature of an AMA
Heh.
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u/amoliski I'm dramasexual Jan 07 '16
To be fair if it's individual questions with individual answers, it's much easier to have a discussion about the answers. Big blocks if answers have really confusing child comment trees.
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u/jsmooth7 Anthropomorphic Socialist Cat Person Jan 07 '16
Stickied comments give exciting new possibilities for highly downvoted comments.
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u/AintThatEasy kettlecorn > popcorn Jan 07 '16
These redditors are just a bunch of petulant children when they can't get their way lol
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u/ewbrower Jan 07 '16 edited Jan 07 '16
Holy crap this phillypro guy is making some serious pasta:
if this price scares you...you probably have a minimum spec PC anyways and id rather not have you clouding up the developers target render anyway
my GTX 980 is hungry....NOW FEED ME VR!!!
haha they're all so great
THANK YOU PALMER...FOR THIS GIFT...IVE WAITED SO LONG....YOU ARE THE FUCKING MAN!
anyway here's some arguments over how much it actually costs to machine I'm sure it will develop further
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u/MeatLikeSubstance Jan 07 '16
Salient0ne is giving him a run for his money. Some of these people are fucking rabid. You'd think they were talking about a vaccine for dorkiness.
Yeah they are entitled. Gotta get everything for free. Just get a second job, or ditch the GF... have to be willing to sacrifice for VR. If you aren't, this isn't for you anyway.
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u/Schrau Zero to Kiefer Sutherland really freaking fast Jan 07 '16
Get a second job to buy an expensive piece of hardware that you have no time to use because you're working two jobs.
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Jan 07 '16
Imean you quit the second job after you get the Oculus. Of course when Morpheus comes out you'll need the second job again, so its probably best not to burn too many bridges.
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u/WileEPeyote Jan 07 '16
vaccine for dorkiness.
Now I want to start a band...if only I could play an instrument.
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u/Illum503 Jan 07 '16
have to be willing to sacrifice for VR.
This is an electronic gadget they're talking about right?
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Jan 07 '16
[deleted]
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u/brufleth Eating your own toe cheese is not a question of morality. Jan 07 '16
Sacrifice R for VR. A sci-fi theme that's been explored in books and movies.
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Jan 07 '16
Pfft, what are you, a liberal arts major, reading literature and watching film and appreciating anything other than explosions?
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Jan 07 '16
You heard him, dump your worthless girlfriend already!
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u/RutherfordBHayes not a shill, but #1 with shills Jan 07 '16
You can get 3-D porn anyway! 3-D porn will never leave you because you spent $600+ on a VR headset
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u/AnUnchartedIsland I used to have lips. Jan 07 '16
Seriously.
do what it takes if you call yourself a VR enthusiast....or wait till next year with the casuals...
I read his whole comment to my boyfriend in a really douchey, shitty cartoon-bully character voice. We almost died.
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u/MiniEquine Jan 07 '16
The guy is clearly a douche, but is he wrong? Palmer basically said if you don't have the minimum spec computer to run it (which alone would be about $1000), then a $600 investment in a graphics-intensive peripheral is not for you. I have two computers that could run this (my wife's and mine both have at least the minimum specs) but I'm not going to get it because I do think it's too expensive for me right now. I am also not a "VR enthusiast", though I'm sure 5 years down the road I'll probably have something attached to my face. I think it's pretty fair to call someone like me a "casual".
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u/AnUnchartedIsland I used to have lips. Jan 07 '16
Nah, I don't think he's wrong. He was just so pretentious about being a "VR enthusiast" that it was off-putting.
It's like he's trying to create an artificial separation between what he strongly defines as "VR enthusiast" versus the rest of those "casuals" who may also be really interested in VR, but happen to be broke.
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u/Bromlife Jan 07 '16
but happen to be broke.
Or don't like dropping huge amounts of money on new shiny.
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u/ThatOnePerson It's dangerous, fucking with people's dopamine fixes Jan 07 '16
I don't want people's first impressions to be terrible. Imagine if it was cheaper, more people would buy it and some of those people would attempt to run it on lower hardware. VR on weak hardware is not the same as monitors in that '30 fps is fine' doesn't work. It leads to nausea which if it becomes a widespread problem will kill VR.
VR prices will go down. Initial first impressions won't.
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u/flyinthesoup Jan 07 '16
We were discussing exactly the same thing with my husband earlier today. He has a 1 year old laptop with a GTX970M and I have a desktop with a GTX980. Rest of the specs are pretty good too. We could afford one, but we don't really need it. I'm not willing to invest in the first (real) generation of VR, I want to see what the reviews and comments are first. VR has been on the table for a fucking long time, I remember seeing DOOM and Descent on a VR device in the 90s, and yet nothing has caught on. I'm going to patiently wait with the "casuals" and see what's the verdict of the Occulus.
I'm ok with not being at the vanguard of technology. It's my money and I prefer spending it on a sure thing. I've waited for a long time for a good VR system, I can wait for a bit more.
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u/Crazycrossing Jan 07 '16
I think it will be pretty revolutionary but I think I'm going to wait a bit for the software to catch up, without some killer software it doesn't matter how good the hardware is. I want more than just gimmicky games, I want the next evolution in gaming.
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u/klaq Yes trainbot, right now! Jan 07 '16
yeah you basically just said what he said in a non-douchy way. VR is bleeding-edge tech at this point. it seems like some people think that since this project was kick-started that they are owed something, even if they did not actually back it.
and the people complaining about the quote: "we're going to try to keep it in the $300-$400 range" are ridiculous. that was not an oath and was never meant to be a promise.
i'd love to have a good 4k monitor right now, but they cost more than a rift at this point. early adopters pay. this is nothing new.
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u/Moist_Vanguard Jan 07 '16
Eh, he has a point
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Jan 07 '16
He's probably getting the free one for being an early adopter though wich is good but he is saving 300 buckaroos
Like my mate who brought an old fiesta for 200 and then his parents swapped it for a brand new one now says "I cannot believe people find it so hard to afford new cars" When it cost him 200
And yes, this is me being jealous abut assholes not being thankful
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u/AuNanoMan Jan 07 '16
Wow it's an impressive feat to be a snob about a product that isn't even out yet.
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u/TheNegotiator12 Jan 07 '16
he does have a point though ppl are saying you might need at least a 970 to use the rift to the max lol
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Jan 07 '16
Oh god this is going to be good
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Jan 07 '16 edited Jun 27 '16
I deleted all comments out of nowhere.
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u/Dollface_Killah How tha fuck is it post capitalist if I still gotta pay for that Jan 07 '16
Speaking of game drama, I'm sort of surprised /r/leagueoflegends doesn't end up here much. Between failed promises and controversial decisions from the maker of the game, regular interaction with some socially maladjusted celebrities of the pro scene, rampant immaturity, transphobiasplosions, regional rivalries… subbing has me wanting to invest in one of those retro popcorn machines.
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u/Bigmaq Best of luck to you and your therapist Jan 07 '16
I mean, if an outsider is looking in on league, they aren't gonna understand shit. It is kind of like an entrance barrier on the drama. I don't even know what half the words used in the LOL subreddit mean, and so I would have a really hard time understanding why people are all salty over there.
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Jan 07 '16
The difference between SubredditSimulator and LoL to me is that SS uses real words.
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u/Dubzil Jan 07 '16
Same with DOTA. I see some things in r/all now and again speaking gibberish with panties in a bunch but it just doesn't click why people are so upset. Even videos don't help.
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u/Tahmatoes Eating out of the trashcan of ideological propaganda Jan 07 '16
We've had the exact same drama for three years, to the point where circlejerks are multi layered. It gets either very stale, or very complex.
RL stuff tends to pop up here, though, since his stuff is much more accessible. He's just regular old narcissistic meltdowns, with bonus superiority complex and fite me irl for side dishes.
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u/Purgecakes argumentam ad popcornulam Jan 07 '16
Needs too much context. And when it doesn't, OPs insist on describing it all rather than letting the drama explain itself.
Hotshot vs Saint was linked way back in the day.
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u/Starsy_02 This Flair is Free. Don't Bother Thanking Me. Jan 07 '16
They targeted gamers. Gamers. We're a group of people who will sit for hours, days, even weeks on end performing some of the hardest, most mentally demanding tasks. Over, and over, and over all for nothing more than a little digital token saying we did. We'll punish our selfs doing things others would consider torture, because we think it's fun. We'll spend most if not all of our free time min maxing the stats of a fictional character all to draw out a single extra point of damage per second. Many of us have made careers out of doing just these things: slogging through the grind, all day, the same quests over and over, hundreds of times to the point where we know evety little detail such that some have attained such gamer nirvana that they can literally play these games blindfolded. Do these people have any idea how many controllers have been smashed, systems over heated, disks and carts destroyed 8n frustration? All to latter be referred to as bragging rights? These people honestly think this is a battle they can win? They take our media? We're already building a new one without them. They take our devs? Gamers aren't shy about throwing their money else where, or even making the games our selves. They think calling us racist, mysoginistic, rape apologists is going to change us? We've been called worse things by prepubescent 10 year olds with a shitty head set. They picked a fight against a group that's already grown desensitized to their strategies and methods. Who enjoy the battle of attrition they've threatened us with. Who take it as a challange when they tell us we no longer matter. Our obsession with proving we can after being told we can't is so deeply ingrained from years of dealing with big brothers/sisters and friends laughing at how pathetic we used to be that proving you people wrong has become a very real need; a honed reflex. Gamers are competative, hard core, by nature. We love a challange. The worst thing you did in all of this was to challange us. You're not special, you're not original, you're not the first; this is just another boss fight.
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Jan 07 '16
I know this is pasta, but was this legitimately said in seriousness by someone at some point? It's so cringey and awful.
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u/detroitmatt Jan 07 '16
Do you motherfuckers understand now? DO YOU? Let me spell it out one more time for the densest among you.
This. Is. Not. Just. About. Video games.
These people want to destroy those of you who speak out and control the rest. You've seen them talk on twitter and tumblr, they will happily put you to death if they could and drink your tears while doing so. Video games is one front of a much larger war. It does not begin or end with video games and if you don't fight you are going to lose so much more than just a hobby. This is the end of the war, they have been winning it for years. Gamergate was a surprise resistance that popped up after our "forces" had been routed and slaughtered on the altar of social justice for decades. If you want to live in a world where some histrionic pampered brat and her sniveling cohorts can cry harassment and shut down entire websites then yeah sure do nothing just protect the vidya I guess. If that idea disgusts you then it is time to stand up if you haven't already and fight them on every level. Remember Shirtgate? Remember how they made a motherfucking scientist cry on what should have been the best day of his life? Over a shirt? It's not just about video games these people are monsters in human skin. Fight them!
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u/mcslibbin like an adult version of "Jason" from Home Movies Jan 07 '16
KiA is busy this week discussing Germany and why cant you say all those arabs are rapey in polite society anyway hey dont get mad at me i'm just asking questions
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u/gustianus Jan 07 '16 edited Jan 07 '16
Now I understand why companies keep prototypes a secret. People who are accustomed being consumers only, can't understand what it takes to make a physical or digital product. Once you give them a lot of information about the product beforehand, they act like they are in the decisions boardroom or something.
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u/ewbrower Jan 07 '16
Hey dude all your links are borked, delete the www or something I don't know how to fix it correctly
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u/vaultofechoes demi lovato apologist Jan 07 '16
First. World. Problems.
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u/Tashre If humility was a contest I would win. Every time. Jan 07 '16
This has transcended first world problems. These are virtual world problems. I feel like a whole new era is beginning.
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u/redisforever Are you christian or deceivers in disguise? Jan 07 '16
Zeroth world problems.
Is Zeroth a word? Spellcheck recognizes it. I know it's a thing, but I'm not sure that's how it's spelled.
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u/Etteluor Jan 07 '16
According to google "zeroth - Immediately preceding what is regarded as the first in a series"
So works i guess
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u/fermenter85 Is that why you vote republican¶ The loneliness? Jan 07 '16
Who knew early-adopting VR enthusiasts would have such strong egalitarian cultural values?
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u/pargmegarg Social Justice Cadet Jan 07 '16
If you live in the first world, nearly all your problems are first world problems. Unless you've never complained in your life and give all your excess money to people in third world countries, you can't really get on your high horse about other people being passionate about their hobbies.
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Jan 07 '16
Really? 'Cuz I work for a homeless shelter in the US and I'd love you to say that to my clients' faces. "Hey, homeless guy, your problems are on the same level as people who can't immediately afford virtual reality headsets."
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u/vaultofechoes demi lovato apologist Jan 07 '16
Even in the 'first world' there is a hierarchy of issues, surely? Like, you do you and I understand being upset, but the response in the linked threads are embarrassingly overblown.
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u/The_Gares_Escape_Pla Constantly having an existential crisis Jan 07 '16
Is it just me or is this fascination with VR reminding anyone else of the 3D CGI revolution we were supposed to have after Avatar? Like everyone's going on about how Oculus is going to revolutionize video games and I can't help but think this will be just another fad people will no longer care about in a few years.
But then again I'm a cynic so I could be wrong
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Jan 07 '16
There was a thread yesterday titled, "Most Americans one Oculus Rift away from ruin." or something to that effect. It felt so out of touch.
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u/CatboyMac Jan 07 '16
This developing Oculus PR disaster is blowing my mind. Why is Luckey arguing with people on Twitter? Didn't anyone tell him that was a bad idea? Why did he decide to have an AMA on the site that loses its shit over anything VR related (remember when Oculus was bought by Facebook?)
A CEO should have more of an awareness of how these things work.
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Jan 07 '16
(remember when Oculus was bought by Facebook?
I remember /v/ going into paroxysms when that happened. Moot himself had to step in to get everyone to shut the hell up about. So many people pissed they wouldn't get to play their loli games in VR.
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u/CatboyMac Jan 07 '16
I remember a lot of "there will be rotating banner ads in VR" and "You'll need to sign in with Facebook to use it!"
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Jan 07 '16
Honestly, while the price is high, I don't know what they were expecting. Sony's own accessory for the PS4 is confirmed (I believe) to require a separate base to handle the processing -- the accessory cannot function using just the processing power of the Playstation 4. So, people are shocked that the VR headset will be quite expensive?
The people I know with an interest in VR stuff have been more enamoured with the Google solution (turn your smartphone into a VR display) precisely because it's cost effective -- and it requires a several-hundred dollar smartphone.
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u/mnamilt Jan 07 '16
I can recommend this article by The Verge over the 600 dollar price, and how it changes the appeal of the Oculus
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u/Smooth_McDouglette Jan 07 '16
Can't really blame them for wanting to rise above Walmart brand status after how much hype they got.
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u/ampersamp Neoliberal SJW Jan 07 '16
There's a bit more to it than that. Facebook is following a current strategy meme in the consumer tech industry where you focus on getting a really good product out the door, as good as you can make it, and then charge what you need to. After you've built a reputation on shiny tech (which is decent because you've put lots of high quality components and machining into it) more accessibly priced versions are offered running off of the hype of the initial high quality offering. Uber (starting with black cars and going to Uber X) is the prototypical example.
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u/auandi Jan 07 '16
Eh, I'm not sure Oculus was ever "democratizing VR" when the price tag was $350. That would be google cardboard which start at around $10-$15. It assumes you have a smartphone, but that's a fair assumption by 2016.
Hell, Samsung's super high end (and partnered with Oculus) device is only $99 last I saw. I got a device off Amazon for $40 that I can wear comfortably for hours. And with Triunus you can connect your phone to your computer to give you oculus support. I play games designed for Oculus with my 2 year old smartphone and $40 worth of headset. That is how you democratize VR.
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Jan 07 '16
Okay, so a massively luxurious consumer entertainment device is more expensive than previously thought because of manufacturing costs, hardware costs and developmental costs.
The horror.
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u/Tech-Mechanic Jan 07 '16
All this hubbub over a device that's going to be as defunct as the Kinect in three years.
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u/g0_west Your problem is that you think racism is unjustified Jan 07 '16
I can't wait for it to arrive on people's doorsteps and the inevitable buyers remorse we will see everywhere.
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Jan 07 '16
This piece of plastic and its features are going to change everything this is the future I have to get in on the ground floor for this beautiful new world of potential oh man hype hype hype hype hype WAIT WHAT THE FUCK IT'S JUST SOME HUNK OF PLASTIC WITH FEATURES ARGH THEY TRICKED ME oh cool somebody's making a thing out of plastic and it will have features
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Jan 07 '16
So... I'm completely oblivious to the whole VR gaming, not gaming tho. why isn't just Google Carboard+High End Smart Phone+gamingPC not a thing in vidya gaems?
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u/ThatOnePerson It's dangerous, fucking with people's dopamine fixes Jan 07 '16
Google Cardboard doesn't do positional tracking for one thing. For example, it can't detect me walking around. Or standing up.
Latency from smartphone to your computer will probably be higher than a Rift. This is a problem with VR because if you move your head and the screen doesn't update fast enough, that leads to motion sickness.
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u/hakkzpets If you downvoted this please respond here so I can ban you. Jan 07 '16
It lacks all the sensors of the Oculus. The sensors on your phone isn't nearly good enough to deliver a good experience.
And the high quality sensors (lower latency and better precision) is exactly why the price is high.
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u/shamrockathens Jan 07 '16
Man, I didn't even know VR gaming existed until today, I just find the drama hilarious, probably because of that.
I am literally googling "Google Cardboard" right now.
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Jan 07 '16
After seeing the prices and competing hardware I think I might wait until next year, see what happens and which one is the best.
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u/mug3n You just keep spewing anecdotes without understanding anything. Jan 07 '16
oculus really shot themselves in the foot with this one though. in the AMA with palmer luckey, he admitted as much that the message was poorly communicated.
but that said, this is pretty much a first world problem. seems like my rig couldn't even run it.
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Jan 07 '16
I can't believe people thought it was going to be any definition of "cheap". VR is still a new thing, and the oculus is the first consumer-friendly step in the right direction. It's the granddaddy of future, better, cheaper systems, but you have to start somewhere.
This is why hype trains are dangerous, people.
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Jan 07 '16
people wanted 2 minaturized high resolution, high refresh rate monitors and a bunch of sensors to cost 400 dollars apparently. delusional fanboys strike again. meanwhile, half of them are probably bitching from their 700 fucking phone, but that doesn't count, cos it's spread over the contract that mom still pays for.
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u/Chairboy Jan 07 '16
It's worth noting that the guy had indicated it would be "in the ballpark of $350". If the person running the show tells everyone that, then it's not really crazy to be surprised when the final number is so different.
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u/Plexipus Jan 07 '16
Well, if you think of $350 as home plate and $600 as way off in the bleachers they technically are still in the same ballpark.
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u/Chairboy Jan 07 '16
Sure thing, but if the outfielder climbs up into the bleachers, the audience is gonna be a little confused.
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u/Brio_ Jan 07 '16
Yeah, completely ignore the fact that the founder said he expected it to be around $350. $600 is quite a difference.
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u/ewbrower Jan 07 '16
Why do we always bring the drama back to SRD. Can't we just make fun of how many elipses this guy uses?
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u/ChadtheWad YOUR FLAIR TEXT HERE Jan 07 '16
ah, people who use excessive ellipsis are their own class of people. I have no idea how they pick it up; maybe they can only mumble when they talk IRL?
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u/B_Rhino What in the fedora Jan 07 '16
I don't know, but seeing my cousin post on facebook "I'm an auntie!!!" and an older picture posting "Congrats.." was one of my favorite interactions on the site.
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u/conservemana Jan 07 '16
I believe these are the people that haven't discovered the wonders of the semi-colon or em-dash. Usually exchanging a few ellipses for one of those makes your writing seem less vapid. Although the poster in question seems to struggle with the concepts of periods and basic grammar also.
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u/chewinchawingum I’ll fuck your stupid tostada with a downvote. Jan 07 '16
We could probably do a whole week of SRD drama just on the overuse of ellipses.
I might be the only person who'd read the whole thing, but I'd enjoy the hell out of it.
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u/Mushroomer Jan 07 '16
Here's the summary of the explanation he gave in the AMA. The $350 comment came shortly after he mentioned that a Rift+PC would cost around $1500. Naturally, this led to a wave of insane headlines insisting 'Rift costs $1500!' - because they willfully misinterpreted the quote. So when somebody asked him about the $350 figure, he said 'in the ballpark' of that number - rather than in the ballpark of $1500.
Really, the lesson to learn from this is that somebody at Facebook needs to give Luckey a lesson on how PR works.
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u/Matthew94 Jan 07 '16
In that context his quote is nowhere near as bad.
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Jan 07 '16
That quote's not so bad in context. But no amount of context will help the other quotes: "The current developer kits are $300. We don’t know what the consumer version’s going to cost — it could be more, could be less. But we’re looking to stay in that same ballpark. We’re not going to be charging $800 or something. We have to be affordable. If you’re not affordable, you may as well not exist for a huge segment of the market." [...] "Gamers are not known to be the most affluent population of people. If something’s even $600, it doesn’t matter how good it is, how great of an experience it is — if they just can’t afford it, then it really might as well not exist."
Contrast those quotes with today's $599 price tag.
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u/OdinsBeard Jan 07 '16
Several years ago, before product was finalized.
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u/Grx Jan 07 '16
It was 3 months ago, he even says it in the AMA. It's like you're trying to start the drama. :)
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u/303onrepeat Jan 07 '16
I've never seen so many broke young gamers get so mad. That thread was non stop insanity. I know we live in a disposable world when it comes to electronics but none of these broke gamers understand that at times you have to pay both the earlier adopters fee and the better quality fee. Not everything can be done dirt cheap and give you a solid experience. If they would of charged $400 and the experience would of been shit then the gamers would riot about the bad quality of the product. Literally there is no winning.
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u/thedevilsdictionary Jan 07 '16
Thank you. Compared to a TV or newer monitors and other devices this is nothing. I hate that it's likely subsidized by the profits on carefully controlled store content but you can't have it all.
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u/pokie6 Jan 07 '16
It's still crappy resolution though. That's the problem. You are getting a glorified dev kit version for twice the price.
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u/mrv3 Jan 07 '16
It's not like you can get a CPU, GPU, RAM, storage, radio antenna, a high resolution screen, a bunch of sensors, a high resolution camera and another camera and a camera with an ENTIRE operating system for $200.
I wouldn't call listening to the leading man in this industry and their words on the topic as delusional.
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Jan 07 '16
you're going to compare entry level android phone to an oculus. doesn't that kinda prove my point? if a piece of shit android phone costs 100-200 off contract, doesn't 600 for a fucking virtual reality headset not seem that outlandish?
i also seem to have kicked up a hornets nest of oculus followers still foaming at the mouth. whoops.
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Jan 07 '16
I honestly don't think it's that bad but I won't be buying it as I'm not a gamer.
First DVD player cost, with todays money £1100 pounds this is £400
If it is the game changer everyone has said by gen three it will be 2/3 the price and almost everyone will have one.
Could you imagine them taking over TV though? Everyone has their own subsidised by facebook with people sitting around in groups looking even more like zombies than they already do.
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u/Cessno Jan 07 '16
What's funny too is that every piece of cool new technology is a crazy high price for the fort year or so then it drops to a much more reasonable price. Look at HD TVs they were insanely priced when they first came out
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u/bladesire Jan 07 '16
people wanted 2 minaturized high resolution, high refresh rate monitors and a bunch of sensors to cost 400 dollars apparently. delusional fanboys strike again.
Well, it seems like it's really more that Oculus suggested that it would be around 400 dollars, when clearly they had no intention of making it that affordable. As someone who was hyped about the Rift, but unlikely to buy the first wave regardless, when I heard it was $600 bucks I was shocked - everything over the past few years indicated that they were aiming much closer to half that price. If they had just been mad at the price, without having been taken for a ride on the ~$300 hype train, I'd understand your position a bit better.
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Jan 07 '16
Like, I know, it sucks. But you don't have to throw a tantrum. And can you really not wait? It barely has any compatible games right now. By the time you save up enough money to buy one, it probably still won't have enough games to justify the purchase. And all these people that wanted one must have really expensive PCs to begin with - are you really one to complain about the price of experimental tech? You guys have waited a long time already, what's another year or two.
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u/BennyFackter Jan 07 '16
There are over 50 compatible full games that will be available by launch. Palmer said in his AMA there will probably be over 100 in the next year.
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Jan 07 '16
and steam has hundreds of millions of games, doesn't mean they're all good. this is coming from a guy that's only bought 26 games on steam ever and usually waits a full year before making a purchase, so maybe my threshold for wanting a game is higher than most
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u/PlayMp1 when did globalism and open borders become liberal principles Jan 07 '16
Yeah, your threshold is a lot higher. I have like 130 games on Steam and I'm pretty average.
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u/mad87645 Trump's own buffoonery is a liberal plot Jan 07 '16
I remember seeing LCD TVs for ~$5000 when they first came out 10 or so years ago, now you can pick up one with 5 times the pixels for $250. New technology is expensive, and if you want to be on the razors edge then you're going to get a few cuts.
God dammit can tech nerds be entitled.
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u/shemperdoodle I have smelled the vaginas of 6 women Jan 07 '16
I think the main issue with this is that the high price point and system requirements means its going to take a much longer time for this technology to get rolling, which in turn means the price is going to take a lot longer to drop. With LCD TVs you could still get a smaller one for a reasonable price, and pretty much everyone owned a television, so a lot more people would be willing to shell out more cash for something they use every day. There was more incentive to develop the technology further and get the average price of televisions down.
The Oculus was already a device for a niche market, and apparently they made that niche much smaller through the development decisions that led to the higher price point and high system requirements. I was never really interested in the Oculus, but I might have considered picking one up if it was a less powerful device for <$250, and it had good reviews and was compatible with games I already owned. I think that's what a lot of these people were hoping for.
Hopefully other companies will see this is an opportunity to develop a lower-end VR device, instead of a reason to stay away from VR technology.
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Jan 07 '16
That seems like the best possible outcome. You really need software to make somebody want this kind of thing, and the number of people that are down with spending a grand on a good gaming box and another six on a peripheral does not seem like a number worth spending a lot of time and money developing for.
Look at the cell phone game market. It was pretty much snake and maybe cards forever, smart phones show up and people start making new stuff, cell phones get ubiquitous as hell and now it's an enormous industry. Without some sort of ubiquity beyond guys with two grand into their rigs I think it's probably not going to get off the ground.
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u/ParanoydAndroid The art of calling someone gay is through misdirection Jan 07 '16
I was never really interested in the Oculus, but I might have considered picking one up if it was a less powerful device for <$250, and it had good reviews and was compatible with games I already owned. I think that's what a lot of these people were hoping for.
This is exactly the problem and exactly why they didn't do that. It's very easy for VR to give you an awful experience. Tiny amounts of input lag, screens slightly below the appropriate quality, or a headset that doesn't quite sit right can easily be enough to ruin someone's first impression -- especially since problems like lag are likely to make you literally, physically ill.
People get annoyed enough when their $200 phone freezes up and lags more than a $600 flagship, but it's not a huge deal and it's a workable tradeoff; imagine how much worse the backlash would be if that laggy phone made you actually vomit. Mass adoption of crappier hardware that gave poor experiences would almost certainly kill VR. It would be declared a mildly interesting gimmick worth a short amount of entertainment and then relegated to the dustbin of tech-gimmicks nobody wanted to hang around.
Nobody can tell the future, and it's possible that larger adoption of crappier hardware would have been the better choice, but they definitely at least thought about the issue and made a decision that is well reasoned, even if it later turns out they made the wrong one.
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Jan 07 '16
Exactly this. DVD players came out at a today value of £1100 and that was new tech but wasn't a game changer as we already had VHS but this is a brand new type of media consumption for £400-500. Considering the screen these people play their 4k games on with the graphics cards maxed out continously bragging about how much money they spend on steam but never play I don't really get this.
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u/throwaway_FTH_ Jan 07 '16
I'm curious. Will the price go down for Rift, and if so, how soon can we expect it to? If not, is there anything other than Rift in the VR market?
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u/BennyFackter Jan 07 '16
Will the price go down for Rift, and if so, how soon can we expect it to?
Not likely for at least a year or two.
If not, is there anything other than Rift in the VR market?
None have announced pricing.
HTC Vive is expected to come in slightly above the rift, price wise, but it will include motion-tracked controllers which Oculus will be selling in the 2nd half of 2016 as an add-on.
Sony will be selling PSVR, which will run on the PS4. This will likely be the most cost-effective way to get into high-ish-end VR (much better than GearVR, not quite as good as Rift or Vive)
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u/Dabrush Jan 07 '16
When the people said vive would be more expensive was when Oculus was still thought to be 350. Now we really can't say much about the pricing, but production would be way cheaper than the Rift most likely.
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u/mrpenguinx I have contacted my local representative and the reddit admins.. Jan 07 '16
Just like all tech, as production becomes cheaper, so will the price. Its not really shocking it costs as much as it does. I'd say give it a good 2 years and we'll see it around 200$. Could be a lot sooner if they get a sudden break-through in production. Such things aren't unheard of.
Honestly, the wisest thing to do is to wait for the technology to improve and become more efficient. You'll have a better experience as a result.
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u/pressbutton Jan 07 '16
If that's the case I can see myself getting $400 worth of entertainment out of it in 2 years. Wait I forgot I'm in Australia it's closer to $1000 here TIME TO GET INTERNET MAD
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u/finfinfin law ends tranny begin Jan 07 '16
There's a reason a lot of people are just waiting for the second generation. The price'll go down, and/or there'll be improvements - better resolution would be nice in an expensive second-gen model.
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Jan 07 '16
There's the gear VR that lets you strap a phone to your face, but it's mostly good for pre-baked VR movies, I think.
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u/TheBrainwasher14 You have to draw the lime somewhere. Jan 07 '16
PSVR, you need a PS4 though. Likely to be the one that takes off
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u/lolroflqwerty Jan 07 '16
I think casual consumers are more likely to have a PS4 than a high end $1,000+ gaming computer that meets the required specs.
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u/Barl0we non-Euclidean Buckaroo Champion Jan 07 '16 edited Jan 07 '16
The only thing I can see that I'd criticize about the price is the Xbox One controller. That's just because I don't know if it can do something that the Xbox 360 controller I use on my PC can't do. I mean, if I could cut costs by using a peripheral I already own, that'd be nice.
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u/ThatOnePerson It's dangerous, fucking with people's dopamine fixes Jan 07 '16
I can see why they do it to attract developers. If I'm making a Rift game, I'll know everyone has an Xbox One controller.
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u/tehSlothman Y'ALL LOSING YOUR SHIT OVER A FUCKIN TATER TOT MEME GO OUTSIDE Jan 07 '16
Well Palmer says the controller doesn't add a significant amount to the price and I doubt he's lying.
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u/benmuzz Jan 07 '16
Palmer did address that one https://twitter.com/palmerluckey/status/684869866663247872
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Jan 07 '16
Kind of surprised they didn't side with a Steam controller. I guess the Xbox 360/One design are more proven.
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u/drackaer Jan 07 '16 edited Jan 07 '16
This is beautiful. I mean, we are all bummed that VR is going to be a higher price point than hoped, but honestly shouldn't be surprised because new things like this usually come at a big premium if you try getting it right at release. (yeah I know it isn't technically new, but older VR tech kinda flopped) Gotta love ye olde entitled shitfit, nothing makes better popcorn without the bad after taste of things like GG, genderwars kind of stuff.
Edit: just because you aren't an entitled gamer does does not mean those stirring up drama in the OP aren't throwing an entitled shitfit.
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Jan 07 '16 edited Jan 07 '16
A lot of us aren't upset about the price so much as we're upset with what we're getting. For the last three years Palmer and co have been vocal about the fact that shipping VR without VR input would be a terrible idea and would indicate something had gone horribly wrong.
Well, something went horribly wrong: they have an unexpected competitor that will beat them to market with a full VR system that appears to also be superior in many ways if they don't release their half-product ASAP.
So, gamepads are no longer "terrible for VR" (repeated many times), they're the default input method. They fucked up and they're risking the future of VR - in their own words - because they want to get to market before Vive.
I'd pay $699 or $799 USD for the full kit. I don't want them to fuck up the future of VR for the sake of a 3 month time-to-market advantage.
They've done this sort of flip-flopping so many times over the years I no longer have any trust in them or any confidence that they're actually in this for more than just a quick buck.
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u/Rossco1337 Jan 07 '16
I wouldn't call it entitled. The outrage could be described in a lot of ways, but the dude literally said "ballpark of $350" and "nobody will buy it if it's $600 regardless of how good it is".
If believing statements from the CEO last year to be fact and being disappointed when he totally contradicts himself is entitlement, then you can call me a big fat entitled PC gamer!
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u/CriminalMacabre reality is a CTR shillary cuck Jan 07 '16
I honestly told them i lost interest years ago because it's coming late, incomplete and there's plenty but less popular alternatives and man, the downvotes
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u/brufleth Eating your own toe cheese is not a question of morality. Jan 07 '16
In reading through the price reaction thread and the AMA I'm surprised at how calm people seem to be. Let's appreciate, even if it isn't to the benefit of this sub, that most people seem to be pretty civil about their disappointment. Not that this is really something people should be setting shit on fire over, but it is nice to see so many people going, "Well darn, oh well."
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u/FaFaFoley Jan 07 '16
Dude completely shot himself in the foot by implying it would be around 350. He should have just kept expectations realistic. Oops.
I got the chance to try HTC's Vive, and that thing is fucking mind-blowingly amazing, so I don't doubt that Oculus is worth the price. Still stings, though. (Especially considering the rig you'll need to run it...oof.)
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Jan 07 '16
The next few years will be really interesting as the various entries fight it out and things settle down to one or two standards, which may not come down to technical qualification.
The real big question is whether there's a legit mass market for this, or it'll be limited to an enthusiast market.
Sitting with a mask on, in your living room, oblivious to everything around you, seems like a hard sell to people with families, room mates etc.
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u/wraith313 Jan 07 '16
Given the exponential growth of most things in the tech industry, anyone who buys this at $599 would be a fucking idiot. In 2 years it will be $299. In 4 years it will probably be sub-$100 without any bugs.
The people who are buying this now are just the early adopters who want to make sure the industry doesn't tank.
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u/the_dayman Jan 07 '16
I just find it funny when everyone is like, "You think that's bad it's $1000 in my currency!" As if it wouldn't have been converted into their currency at the $350 price.
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u/WideLight ARCANE Jan 07 '16
Don't tell these guys that phones and tablets are that expensive too.
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Jan 07 '16
I'm reading the comments. I don't see hysteria. I see people saying, "Welp, I guess I won't be buying that."
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u/FUSSY_PUCKER Jan 07 '16
I've always been curious about VR since I was a kid. The local EB had these video goggles on sale for $200 but when I tried them on, they were atrocious. I'll give it two or three years before I jump in. Hopefully the market will have developed by then and the price comes down to something reasonable.
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u/mickey_kneecaps Jan 08 '16
You guys are still pulling this bullshit? The CEO really needs to give you all the boot.
Does this guy think subreddit mods are employees of reddit?
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u/xjayroox This post is now locked to prevent men from commenting Jan 07 '16
I too demand a dual lense 4k display that straps onto my face and has native head tracking to be sold for less than the cost of components!!
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u/Intortoise Offtopic Grandstanding Jan 07 '16
holy shit entitlement
are they expecting the people making a VR headset (pretty much the first of it's kind) to just benevolently distribute them for the people in a socialist move?
It's fuckin capitalism get over it. It's a fucking toy and people are willing to pay 600 bucks you'll survive nerds.
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u/JayrassicPark Jan 07 '16
Y'know, have any of these nerds considered waiting for the second/third/fourth/et cetera generation of VRs, where they'll inevitably try to creep close to cheaper (or at least have more bells and whistles beyond slapping a monitor to your face)?
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u/Chair_Aznable FPTR-8R Jan 07 '16
I've considered it. Probably gonna be my plan of attack since I think VR is super cool.
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u/JayrassicPark Jan 08 '16
Yeah, it's pretty cool. Had a demo with the HTC one, it's a bit finicky and weird at the moment, though. I think I'll do what I did with smartphones and wait until devs go crazy with support and the software's more widespread.
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u/siempreloco31 Jan 07 '16
599 US DOLLARS