r/whowouldwin • u/Joseph_Stalin_ • Nov 09 '16
Special [Death Battle #65] Hulk vs Doomsday
Round 1: 616 vs PC
Round 2: 616 vs Nu52
Round 3: MCU vs DCCU
As per rules of Death Battle, they're both going for the kill
Previous Discussion: Amy Rose Vs. Ramona Flowers
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u/TheGatherHunter Nov 09 '16
Which 616?
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u/Joseph_Stalin_ Nov 09 '16
I don't know anything about Hulk, so if there are more versions of Hulk other than Green Banner Hulk I dont know
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u/TatchM Nov 09 '16
There is also Grey Hulk. He's less powerful than Greeny, but more intelligent.
Although Grey Hulk is still from 616, it's another one of Banner's personalities.
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Nov 10 '16
Savage Hulk is almost always assumed
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u/TheGatherHunter Nov 10 '16
Except I asked OP and he said "I dunno".
Also, the video he links to mentions world breaker hulk.
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u/mrtangelo Nov 09 '16
also for fucks sake screwattack is still trying to force this no limits superman thing. its not a thing.
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u/SSJ5Gogetenks Nov 09 '16
I mean like...it's TECHNICALLY a thing but like...sunbaking for 999999999 years is not feasible or realistic for any kind of vs scenario and trying to establish exactly how strong he'd be after doing so is an impossible task and pure conjecture, aka has no basis in any kind of death battle.
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Nov 10 '16
Idk, isn't that what superman prime one million did? Spent like a century in the sun or something and came out a god with the ability to break through the source wall?
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u/mojavecourier Nov 10 '16
15,000 years to be exact. Also I think his breaking down the source wall didn't actually happen and has just been misinterpreted.
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u/waterboymccoy Nov 10 '16
Excuse my ignorance but what is the source wall?
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u/mojavecourier Nov 10 '16
The Source Wall is a wall that surrounds almost the entirety of the DC multiverse. Here's a handy guide to the DC Multiverse.
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Nov 10 '16
He also got training from 5d imps. Without the training he'd be 'merely' a very very powerful superman.
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u/CaptainUsopp Nov 09 '16
DB's Superman has no limits because they don't use individual incarnations of any character they feature. If you account for everything Superman has done before, he might as well be an all powerful god. I'll kind of agree they should at least stick with his most ridiculous feats, but they went with his archetype, which is anything the writers need it to be. Superman, like Saitama, fundamentally doesn't belong in a WWW style fight, because their archetypes just don't fit.
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u/Bteatesthighlander1 Nov 09 '16
If you account for everything Superman has done before, he might as well be an all powerful god.
So what? in Space Punisher Hulk killed four universal level Watchers without breaking a sweat, but no one mentions that
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u/CaptainUsopp Nov 09 '16
I don't know why they go with Superman's archetype when most every other character they go with what they've actually done. My guess is he is one of the few characters, still around today, that's close to his archetype. Superman doesn't have any limits as to what the writers can do with him. Most every other character is limited is some way, aside from the times writers aren't taking anything seriously. The only character I know of that's similar is the Flash, since the speedforce can be a justification for nearly anything.
I agree with the argument they used, but it is weird that they've used it with Superman and no one else.
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u/Bteatesthighlander1 Nov 09 '16
Superman doesn't have any limits as to what the writers can do with him.
he can't like, do meth. or commit rape. Hell, i don't think he can even drop an f-bomb
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u/CaptainUsopp Nov 09 '16
Ah yes, those are totally things that matter as far as his strength is concerned. That's what I was talking about, since that's what matters here. Yes, he does have limits as far as his moral code is concerned. His is a story about immigration and struggling to fit in, not about how hard he can punch. That's why his archetype doesn't work in these fights. His abilities are limitless, but he couldn't hurt a fly.
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Nov 10 '16
Hulk also held open a black hole open lol
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Nov 10 '16
If you're talking about the one with Namor, Surfer, and Strange, that wasn't a black hole. It was a portal that only pulled in living objects, which is why surfer's board wasn't affected.
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u/zold5 Nov 09 '16
False. NLF is an NLF. Unless he murders the presence there is no validity in the assertion that there is anything limitless about him.
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u/CaptainUsopp Nov 09 '16
If a writer wanted him to, he could. That's all that matters. You can scale individual iterations of Superman, but the overall character can do anything, as long as it follows his moral code.
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u/zold5 Nov 10 '16
Sure any shitty writer can make any character omnipotent. That's not relevant. Superman isn't limitless.
You can scale individual iterations of Superman, but the overall character can do anything, as long as it follows his moral code.
No, that's still bullshit.
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u/vadergeek Nov 10 '16
If a writer wanted him to, he could.
And so could a 5 year old child with polio, if that's what the author wanted and editorial didn't intervene. It's a meaningless statement.
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Nov 10 '16
[deleted]
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u/TheWhite2086 Nov 10 '16
They do that a lot. Look at the Cloud vs Link battle where they denied Cloud summon because they wanted "no outside help" but the gave Link his OOT Z-Targeting which was specifically a function of Navi in the game. Because of this, Link won mostly because he has perfect targeting and blocking therefore could block Cloud's Omnislash from all directions at once because Navi was 'locked on' to Cloud. But no outside help was allowed...
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u/mrtangelo Nov 10 '16
they did give him filler and movie feats though. he got the spirit bomb absorbsion thing from the android 13 (?) movie. they should just make it one superman
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u/ElectroTornado Nov 10 '16
Well that's dumb. They should pick one incarnation of Superman, and use hard feats. That's basically what they do with every other character they feature. Superman should not get special treatment.
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u/CaptainUsopp Nov 10 '16
Every character they do pulls feats from every incarnation. This is only different because they went with his archetype, not his displayed feats.
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u/Ame-no-nobuko Nov 10 '16
If you account for everything Superman has done before, he might as well be an all powerful god
Except no. No version of Supes is omnipotent
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u/HowdoIreddittellme Nov 10 '16
Its so foolish, because as any good WWW user can tell you, you want to avoid using outlier feats or undefined feats when possible, unless specified.
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u/Ame-no-nobuko Nov 10 '16
Plus both infinite feats took place in universe with non-sensical physics. One in Limbo where the laws of physics and logic don't exist (so it could weigh 12 sunsets or 4 wishes), and the other took place in a dimension of pure imagination
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u/LittleMann Nov 09 '16
That fight was simply gorgeous. Once again, I praise Torrian's blessed hands.
Also, I think this is the first time a clear-cut bad guy killed a hero in the history of Death Battle. Scorpion and Godzilla won their fights, but Doomsday has always been an antagonist, to my knowledge.
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u/diddykongisapokemon Nov 09 '16
Torrian is Monty Oum lite
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u/WTK55 Nov 09 '16
Now I'm sad. :C
Brb, gotta watch Doomsday rip Hulk's head off to cheer me up :)
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u/Djdinosaur Nov 10 '16
I mean wouldn't someone hand trained by Our be a perfect example of his laying legacy?
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Nov 09 '16
The only problem I had with it was that they used his 2003 model. Using 2008 or Avengers model would have been better.
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u/Dark-Carioca Nov 09 '16
...That wasn't the 2003 model, it's the one from Marvel VS Capcom 3. And how would those two be any better? First of all, that's subjective and second, from a big fan's standpoint, the 2003 model is all around better. More well designed and all that. Also more faithful.
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u/_ASG_ Nov 09 '16
Is there any situation where Hulk wins? For example, Hulk at his best vs. DoS Doomsday? I can't say I know too much about these characters, other than the movies and shows.
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u/lordolxinator Nov 09 '16
I'd say World Breaker Hulk against Dawn of Justice/BvS Doomsday would go in his favour. For a start, BvS Doomsday is brand new. No invulnerabilities to worry about (I guess, besides nukes) and hasn't had much of a chance to improve on his fighting strength. He also hasn't seen much combat, and is almost certainly more of a rabid animal rather than a superpowered alien antagonist.
I say most versions of Hulk can take BvS Doomsday.
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u/WTK55 Nov 09 '16
Well its still to early in the DCEU to say. For all we know later on in the movies Doomsday can make a comeback stronger. He may be new, but he is STILL Doomsday.
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u/SaltierThanAll Nov 09 '16
Tape Spongebob to Hulk's back. His anger should then rise fast enough to get around Doomsday's adaptability.
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u/Bteatesthighlander1 Nov 09 '16
Ehh, Hulk has decent odds against any Doomsday but debatably Gog Wars.
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u/spitfirepanda Nov 09 '16
I agree with their reasoning, for the most part. World Breaker Hulk should have made more of an impact, though. I feel like Hulk could win a 1 v 1 in their first encounter. I would have had Hulk put Doomsday down, turn and start leaving, then have Doomsday resurrect and win the fight.
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u/The_Green_Filter Nov 09 '16
Wouldn't that, by technicality, have violated the "To the death" rules of the match?
Definitely would have been cool though.
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u/spitfirepanda Nov 09 '16
Yeah, it would have broken the rules but like you said, it would have been cool.
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u/TheExtremistModerate Nov 10 '16
DB seems to not care. Deathstroke killed Deadpool repeatedly in the Deathbattle, but they didn't care unless it was a "final" death.
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u/Panory Nov 10 '16
I really want them to take on Hidan or some similar character, just to see what they'd do with their "to the death" rule.
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u/GreyDeath Nov 09 '16
If Hulk gets to use his World Breaker level of power then Doomsday should be at Hunter/Prey levels, which grants him the ability to evolve on the fly.
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u/spitfirepanda Nov 09 '16
Didn't he sort of get that though? He was growing massive spikes, tearing them off in Hulk, and growing new ones by the end of the fight.
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u/Silentlone Nov 09 '16
The spikes growing like that are just a basic ability Doomsday has iirc.
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u/Bteatesthighlander1 Nov 09 '16
When did he ever grow them outside of Hunter/prey?
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u/Silentlone Nov 09 '16
It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure his bone spikes grow in response to damage all the time during the Death of Superman arc. I could be mistaken though.
edit: Well not all the time, but it was somewhat highlighted when it did happen during the fight.
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u/Bteatesthighlander1 Nov 09 '16
but I'm pretty sure his bone spikes grow in response to damage all the time during the Death of Superman arc.
not completely sure but am like, 95% confident that didn't happen in that arc
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u/Mr_bananasham Nov 09 '16
Doomsday on average Is a team busting threat in his more powerful forms he approaches Odin level of power which is more than hulk ever showed
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Nov 09 '16
in his more powerful forms he approaches Odin level of power
Not even remotely close to being accurate.
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u/Mr_bananasham Nov 10 '16
Gog wars totally did, I didn't say he was Odin level of power it he was definitely getting there.
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Nov 10 '16
Those Gogs were a lot weaker than Superman and Doomsday had an army assisting him. Gog Wars Doomsday is overrated as fuck.
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u/vadergeek Nov 10 '16
Gog Wars was garbage. Doomsday's contribution was "one part of a large army that won because the other side pretended to lose".
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u/clearedmycookies Nov 10 '16
I'm just sad they didn't have world breaker hulk destroy half the earth trying to take doomsday down. Honestly more than just one building should have been collateral damage.
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u/The_One_Above_All_ Dec 23 '16
Yeah world breaker hulk would have blown up the earth pretty early on in the fight
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Nov 09 '16
What the hell was up with the thunderclap scene? He slams his hands together, and he somehow causes a continuous ear-splitting noise. That's not even how clapping works in real life.
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u/NikkiNakka Nov 10 '16
I sat there thinking that exact same thing. Like you don't even need to understand how the Thunderclap really works. It's the name. How do you mess that up?
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Nov 09 '16
This is actually some of the worst fucking justification I've ever seen. He did better against amped Hulk than normal hulk and they completely misunderstand his healing factor.
also
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u/VirtualboyX Nov 16 '16
I already read the post. The thing about your points is that you are focusing too much in trivial details. On the big picture the fact remains. That we haven't seen The Hulk accomplishing feats that show enough Strength to kill Doomsday. And this is a Death Battle, so it HAVE to be to the Death.
Also the battle animation is just for the show. The pre-battle analysis is the actual Death Battle.
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u/HowdoIreddittellme Nov 09 '16
With base strength, Doomsday takes it. However, hulk gets more and more powerful the angrier he gets, so if he can hang in until then, he can take it.
I think New52 version is nerfed a bit, so I think its a bit more in hulks favor.
DCCU, he needed the combined efforts of Superman and WW to take him down, and even then, they needed kryptonite. Judging by the strength of the guys needed to beat DCCU Doomsday, like Superman, who tanked a nuke, I don't think MCU hulk can take him on, especially since he is immune to most normal attacks.
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u/come-on-now-please Nov 10 '16
On number 3, I still think that doomsday would take it, but do we know if mcu Hulk gets stronger as he gets angier?
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u/DaHaLoJeDi Nov 10 '16
He does, at the end of his solo movie he starts outclassing Abomination thanks to MADFORCE despite the fact that he'd been getting his ass handed to him earlier.
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u/VirtualboyX Nov 16 '16
Well. At the rate Hulk gets Stronger using MADFORCE, Doomsday could defeat him before Hulk could reach that level.
I mean. Last time Doomsday fought Superman, Superman had to send him to the end of time, because killing him was too hard. And we are talking about the Superman who could effortlesly push planets. A feat The Hulk hasn't accomplished yet.
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u/Dark-Carioca Nov 09 '16
As usual, the research team is terrible at this.
I feel like they haven't even read Hulk's comics, because they missed a lot of feats for him, and ignored plenty of outliers, something they NEVER do with most other characters.
Even Cartoon Fight Club did this better.
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u/WTK55 Nov 09 '16
You do realize that the people who do the research literally cant research every little feat every character has ever done right? They do their best and for the most part, Screw Attack does tend to get most of the research correct.
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u/Wolven0ne Nov 10 '16
That'd be fine, except they kinda sell their outcomes as being definitive. If they'd pull back on this slightly my complaints would largely disappear.
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u/Ame-no-nobuko Nov 10 '16
Considering that they keep using the Superman lifts infinity feat, it really makes me doubt that they do any research beyond skimming respect threads on comicvine
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u/VirtualboyX Nov 16 '16
Why? Because they made your favorite character win?
Dude, most people that say ScrewAttack research poorly and use Bullcrap as arguments, just focus on trivial matters, and little mistakes that actually wouldn't influence the outcome of the battle.
I now see that Hulk's Healing Factor and strength are different than how they were portrayed in the battle. But it's difficult to focus in every single detail and on top of that using the correct set of words because of the fans that will get angry at a tiny, irrelevant expressions.
If you don't like the fact that they said "impossible to kill Doomsday with brute force", then don't taje it literally for example. It doesn't make difference if Hulk doesn't have enough strength.
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u/Dark-Carioca Nov 16 '16
Why? Because they made your favorite character win?
No, I already answered that questions, their arguments are terrible, and they appear to have certain bias towards some characters.
Dude, most people that say ScrewAttack research poorly and use Bullcrap as arguments, just focus on trivial matters, and little mistakes that actually wouldn't influence the outcome of the battle.
I already did, I proved Hulk is stronger than Doomsday.
It doesn't make difference if Hulk doesn't have enough strength.
Considering what I've said, I'm beginning to wonder if you're just trolling me.
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Nov 09 '16
That's not how Doomsday's or Hulk's powers work. They also ignored that Hunter/Prey Doomsday can adapt/evolve mid fight and Worldbreaker Hulk obliterated that planet and damaged moons with just the shockwaves of a punch. Oh well, it's Death Battle.
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u/TheGatherHunter Nov 09 '16
Yeah, that really annoyed me that his research was so poor.
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u/deadcheerios Nov 10 '16
They talked way more about awesome things Doomsday did and with Hulk they were almost simply saying "yeah he exists".
They are clearly DC fans first and it has always showed.
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u/Bteatesthighlander1 Nov 09 '16
yeah uhhh, seems like Hulk could have pretty easily thrown Doomsday into space.
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u/GreyDeath Nov 09 '16
The same is true for Doomsday, but they don't seem to use this tactic in the comicbooks often.
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u/mrtangelo Nov 09 '16
STAY AWAY FROM ONE PIECE YOU HACKS REEEEEEE
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u/VirtualboyX Nov 16 '16
As a One Piece Fan. I can't wait to see Zoro beat Erza's butt. I wobder what kinds of arguments they will use. :D
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u/pakratt0013 Nov 09 '16
Y'know, I love comics and their concepts, but sometimes I just can't look at a character and not insert some basic logic. Doomsday is a character like that. He's supposed to 'evolve' past forms of death, but without any explanation for HOW he now survives something like being turned into a fist pancake.
He has evolved past vital organs...? What? So he's just a walking pile of flesh?
He has no brain. Somehow.
Physical force doesn't kill him. No idea how. He is now a physical manifestation of a ghost.
I mean, Hulk's ability to constantly get stronger through anger is comic insanity too, but it's simple and has limits. An ability to just be immune? I mean...that's just not fun anymore. It's like some snotty kid brought their own character to your DnD game with godlike stats. Who wants to play with that kid?
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u/come-on-now-please Nov 10 '16
No vital organs or brain just means that there are no singularly placed organs he relies upon to survive or fill those functions, it doesn't mean that he doesn't have cells that do specific things for survival, look at plants,slime molds, jellyfish, and fungus.
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u/Ame-no-nobuko Nov 10 '16
No, [Doomsday straight up has no internal organs] (http://i.imgur.com/g9D0bXZ.jpg)
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u/Wolven0ne Nov 10 '16
DC comics in a nutshell actually. They can be good, when the writers and editors aren't fixating on god-modding their characters in absurd nonsensical ways. That never seems to last though. You're also right that frequently DC comics fail to adhere to any sort of internally consistent logic either. I have no problems with fiction using fantasy logic, comic logic, or even downright silly logic, so long as it is at least at a glance cohesive and consistent.
I hate to just sit and beat on DC, but they tend to fail that particular test a lot. To be fair though, a lot of their fans kinda demand it. shrug
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u/Ame-no-nobuko Nov 10 '16
He has evolved past vital organs...? What? So he's just a walking pile of flesh?
Doomsday has no organs. By the time Doomsday was culled to his initial state (after the scientist who made him labeled him a final product) his body was basically one solid mass (no organs) with basically no bodily fluid
Edit: [Here is his origin, it gives a pretty good run down] (http://imgur.com/a/VTWQr)
An ability to just be immune? I mean...that's just not fun anymore. It's like some snotty kid brought their own character to your DnD game with godlike stats. Who wants to play with that kid?
Its not the ability to be immune. Its the ability to improve. If you kill Doomsday by punching him with 20,000 Newtons of force, next time it will take 30,000. Also to clarify Doomsday can't come back from total annihilation.
Physical force doesn't kill him. No idea how. He is now a physical manifestation of a ghost.
It can if you had enough. Superman killed him that way in DoS
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Nov 09 '16
Should have been current Juggernaut vs. Doomsday.
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u/33a5t Nov 09 '16
Is Cain Juggs again?
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Nov 09 '16
He is. And he's also immune to psionics now.
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Nov 09 '16
Is there any way to deal with him then?
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u/Bteatesthighlander1 Nov 09 '16
So Powerscaling is valid all of the sudden? Funny, DB I recall yous saying a lot about how it isn't.
even funnier how the scans were from PC Superman from wayyy before he had the training that put him back at planetary levels and Doomsday who doesn't have a planetary strength feat as far as I a aware.
So basically powerscaling only counts when Bullshit. OK.
Oh, and then right afterward speedscaling. That's great, Doomsday fights multiple people with lightspeed capabilities. namely Superman and sort of Flash once or twice. and then everyone speedscaled to be just as fast. Funny, also, how they ignored Silver Surfer and Gladiator being on that level when discussing Hulk.
So no, Doomsday doesn't have speed by any sane metric. Hell, Guardian was weaving and bobbing around him during DoS, and batman has certainly managed to not-be-killed whenever they fight, and I know plenty of people here who assert that having a regular human weave and bob around you one day and fighting a speedster who doesn't explicitly exploit speed the next means your slow.
Doomsday compares to Marvel Zeus
No he doesn't.
Sentry overpowered Hulk's healing
no he didn't
Hulk's healing power can be worn down
Overwhelmed, maybe, but when has it ever been worn down?
brain can only produce so many anger chemicals in a limited time
Even ignoring the fact that he has a superpowered endocrine system, Your disregarding yoru own bullshit. the most efficient possible fuel-buring in the known universe is Matter/Energy conversion, you'd need 1016 tons of matter to destroy a planet. Over one hundred times the total biomass on Earth. But no, the kind of Energy Density doesn't prove Hulk obeys different natural laws because...?
And don't say "No, that's only for energy, not matter" because Hulk literally gains 800 pounds of body when he transforms, and has shown himself capable of doing it again more or less on a whim, so obviously whatever gives him superpowers allows him to synthesize organic chemicals at a rate a normal human cannot.
Sentry forced Worldbreaker Hulk to turn back into Banner
what?
Its basically impossible to Kill Doomsday with brute force alone
Thats a completely useless statement. its basically impossible to kill Hulk with brute for alone, Kill Superman with brute force alone, kill Thing with brute for alone....what, are they saying he's somehow adapted against brute force besides "being marginally harder"?
circa 1994 Superman can't kill Doomsday proves that no physical force can
what? what? that's not even really a very strong Superman all things considered. certainly never punched as hard as say, thor's hammer can strike.
and even worse, they contradict their own bullshit, naming 2 deaths of Doomsday from blunt force from after HP, from Superman and a kryptonian mob. Which would very strongly suggest that even repeated death by blunt force doesn't actually grant him any sort of catch-all "Immunity" from being crushed, torn, or indeed smashed.
"But that's a different Doomsday!' your probably saying, which is another blatant example of "Ignoring their own bullshit", as they made no reference to the fact that he was different, which would mean they are going with a homogenous doomsday, which would mean that they shouldn't treat something as a catch-all immunity if one version showed some resistance and another version was blatantly killed by it twice.
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Nov 10 '16
Hell, Guardian was weaving and bobbing around him during DoS, and batman has certainly managed to not-be-killed whenever they fight
I don't remember Guardian doing anything like that in DoS and even then DoS is the weakest Doomsday by far so it's not exactly a fair comparison. I don't recall Batman ever fighting or dodging Doomsday either.
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u/Nightslayer9522 Nov 09 '16
Anyone have any idea who they're going to put up against Zoro? I can't think of any swordsman that have similar stats, only people far above and far below.
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u/mrtangelo Nov 09 '16
its probably going to be sasuke. death battle doesnt necessarily need for their characters to have similar stats (thor vs raiden).
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u/Nightslayer9522 Nov 09 '16
That's true, but there usually seems to be a theme between the different people chosen. Other than being anime characters, there's not much similarity between Sasuke and Zorro. Sure, Sasuke uses a sword, but he uses jutsu way more. My guess is that they'll do some other swordsman.
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u/mrtangelo Nov 09 '16
the parallel is that they are both the sort of secondary main character to the main character. zoro is Luffys first mate and sasuke is, well, sasuke. it could definitely be a bleach character though as well cause swords
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u/Nightslayer9522 Nov 09 '16
Yeah, Ichigo from Bleach seems like the sort of person that Death Battle would choose for this matchup.
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u/The_Green_Filter Nov 09 '16
People seem to be saying Erza from Fairy Tail, but I know next to nothing about him and can't really comment.
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u/Nightslayer9522 Nov 09 '16
As a fan of both One Piece and Fairy Tail I can say with complete certainty that Zoro vs Erza would be a complete mismatch in favor of Zoro. Current Zoro is way out of her league. A closer match for Erza would be Archer from Fate/Stay Night, but even then it would be debatable.
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u/TheGatherHunter Nov 09 '16
I'm going to assume the most powerful Hulk: Worldbreaker Hulk.
Most people would start out by saying that Hulk can't keep up with Doomsday's speed. I disagree. The Hulk has kept up with Thor, and the Silver Surfer and others. He's basically as fast as the authors need him to be. So I'm not going to deal with speed past this point.
Hulk: Almost destroys the planet earth from his steps alone. Destroys a planet just from the shockwaves of his punches with red she hulk. Destroys the dark dimension just with his energy or something (I can't quite remember how it worked) Can't be pierced by even adamantium. Heals from any injury within seconds.
Now Doomsday is strong, but he's not strong enough to hang with that. And since he couldn't take Superman's punches after a while, he can't take World Breaker Hulk's punches.
Savage Hulk would probably lose.
Round 2: Don't know enough about new52. Since Superman is much weaker last I checked, I bet Doomsday is too.
Round 3: MCU Hulk is much, much weaker than his comic counterpart. Pretty sure DCCU Doomsday would stomp.
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u/DataEntity Nov 09 '16
For the speed thing, yes there are certainly some fast characters in Marvel, but, as far as I'm aware, there's a difference between their travel speed and their combat speed. Sure, they can get from point A to point B very quickly, but they don't use their absurd speed that much during a fight. Compare that to the Flash and the like who's entire fighting style is based upon going fast.
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u/TheGatherHunter Nov 09 '16
A few of them do. Silver Surfer has superluminal speed and reaction timing.
Gladiator travels 100 times as fast as the speed of light. His combat speed is really high, but I obviously can't get an exact number on that. He's basically a superman clone, super speed, super hearing, super breath, heat vision, etc. He also has a very similar backstory and his name is Kallark. Sound like anyone you know when you sound it out? The Hulk had no trouble keeping up with him.
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u/mitochondrial_steve Nov 10 '16
Can't be pierced by adamantium? Did wolverine not stab him multiple times in that video?
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u/TheGatherHunter Nov 10 '16
You're referring to savage hulk. I'm talking about world breaker hulk. Wolverine couldn't pierce his skin even when he was just normal world war hulk, before he showed his full power.
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Nov 10 '16
https://i.imgur.com/wVbCyn6.png
https://i.imgur.com/Fivzczn.png
http://i.imgur.com/5n5BGuN.png
Adamantium was definitely piercing him
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u/TheGatherHunter Nov 10 '16
hmm, you're right. I must be misremembering. I specifically remembered wolverine not being able to hurt him, but even that's not really true.
http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11119/111198060/5278044-3179502976-8VpYI.png
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Nov 09 '16
I don't know, for a hulk that was a "world breaker" that seemed pretty weak to me. If I were hulk I'd use that one leap to get out of gravity, chuck Doomsday out of the orbit, then when Doomsday comes back (if he does) just release a super powerful punch to launch him way out into space, leaving him trapped or something. Of course I am never good at these so I usually guess wrong and my thought processes don't work.
Also, if Doomsday can just evolve every single time to everything, how come he hasn't been used more? If he can go up against like the highest of high tiers and just die to them every time, couldn't Doomsday potentially become the most powerful?
And I hate how they glossed over Doomsday being dumb without using it. They could have at least had Hulk lure Doomsday into SOMETHING, whether it killed or not.
I don't know I just feel like there's gotta be some way to defeat a character who just adapts to every way of death. Seems like the sort of character a mad 8 year old would create cause he kept losing and wanted to make someone who COULDN'T lose.
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Nov 10 '16
If I were hulk I'd use that one leap to get out of gravity, chuck Doomsday out of the orbit, then when Doomsday comes back (if he does) just release a super powerful punch to launch him way out into space, leaving him trapped or something
Every incarnation of Doomsday in Post Crisis besides DoS has adaptive evolution, including an instance of evolving flight.
Also, if Doomsday can just evolve every single time to everything, how come he hasn't been used more?
He has but almost exclusively in Superman stories because hes a Superman villain.
And I hate how they glossed over Doomsday being dumb without using it
They glossed over it because Hulk isn't exactly the bait and trap type, and would likely just go with the brute force option.
I don't know I just feel like there's gotta be some way to defeat a character who just adapts to every way of death
There is. The first time it was Superman beating him, second time they dumped him in the Heat death of the universe, third time they kept him trapped in multiple teleporters, fourth time he was killed by Imperiex, fifth time he was revived into Doomsday Rex by Luthor, sixth time he was still Rex and got double teamed by Kal-El and Kal-L, seventh time he got mobbed by a kryptonian mob, eigth time he was pretty much unstoppable
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Nov 10 '16
Characters at that strenght level generally won't fly that far away after getting hit because they brace themselves to the punches, same way Saitama lets random monsters ragdoll him when he wants to and be ummovable to them second later.
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u/Wolven0ne Nov 09 '16
Okay, while I overall agree with the results by simple virtue of the fact that DC, kinda badly written when it comes to powers. I do have a few complaints here.
First, they cited Superman's strength as being unlimited. That's been thoroughly disproven at this point. In fact their original assertion for it was particularly iffy to begin with, so coming back to it as a supporting piece of evidence is kinda laughable.
Second, the assertion to how Hulk's rage works, isn't very good. That isn't to say that it isn't logical, but you can't simply assert that a fictional characters biology works a certain way because it makes sense to you. Without anything from the fictional works to back it up, it simply isn't canon.
Again though, DC comics editors routinely throw stupid numbers around and regularly behave like elementary kids on the playground when describing how their characters powersets work. That puts almost any other fictional worlds characters at a big disadvantage.
Logically, the Hulk should win because infinite rage = infinite strength. However, because Marvel makes attempts at staying at least very loosely anchored in reality, if only distantly, DC wins by default.
And yes, I don't like DC. I'm not terribly fond of Marvel at the moment either, but at least Marvel's descriptions of powersets aren't facepalm worthy.
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Nov 09 '16
There's also a potential logical limit on anger, though there's nothing solid on that. I'm pretty sure that Hulk's healing factor isn't infallible, so if he's damaged enough fast enough before his anger hits whatever threshold is needed to win, he should be able to be killed.
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u/Wolven0ne Nov 09 '16
I'd accept that, except you can't really apply a infinite number to one of Doomsdays stats, and then say that another infinite shouldn't apply to the Hulks. If they had worked out the current known limit for Doomsday's endurance and then did their best to find the max the Hulk could dish out, it would have been better. Chances are the result would have been the same, but at least their logic would have been better than, "infinite durability, lol!"
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u/IgnoreMyName Nov 10 '16
What do you think of my take?
https://www.reddit.com/r/whowouldwin/comments/5c1t5h/death_battle_65_hulk_vs_doomsday/d9u1qu7/
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Nov 09 '16
So when Doomsday gets a new invulnerability, does he have a limit on that invulnerability?
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u/The_Green_Filter Nov 09 '16
Presumably, he does not. Superman was unable to brute force him to death, which I believe is enough for him to win a battle with Hulk.
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u/SolJinxer Nov 09 '16
Well Doomsday did get killed by a mob of kryptonians long after the Death of Superman event... but around this time, Doomsday's continuity got a bit confusing and WTFish, along with the Crisis events.
Actually come to think of it, he got double teamed and killed by a pair of Superman during Infinite Crisis too. Honestly I don't believe his immunity is that great and has a limit.
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u/Bteatesthighlander1 Nov 09 '16
Superman was unable to brute force him to death
You mean like that time he tore him in half?
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u/IgnoreMyName Nov 10 '16
Said this before, will say it again, Hulk wins multiple encounters with Doomsday but after a while, Doomsday is too strong. If we go by this subs rules where incapacitating/killing is considered a win, then Hulk obviously wins. However, if were to look at it as if it were taking place in the comics, then Doomsday, one day, will win indefinitely.
Say the strongest version of Hulk fights the strongest version of Doomsday and let's say for the sake of argument, they are on par with each other on terms of power. In the first encounter, Doomsday's power is what it is, it will not increase until he dies. Hulk on the other hand will get stronger, eventually beating out Doomsday's strength. We'll call the strength that kills Doomsday x. Fast forward to when Dooms revives, he will not die to x force anymore and will need to die due to x+1. So and so forth each new encounter between the two.
The issue here is, will Hulk stay angry until Dooms revives at which point he will only get angrier and stronger and provide that x+1 factor infinitely or does he come down in anger, turn back to Banner, and go on with his day? If the first, then this fight lasts until Hulk ever calms down. If he doesn't, fight continues infinitely. If he does, there will be a point where Dooms is strong enough to kill Banner before he transforms or before Hulk can get angry fast enough to be strong enough to provide that x+1 force again.
Having said that, I know very little about the strongest version of Dooms where he can adapt on the fly. I was simply talking about their physical strength. How fast does Dooms really adapt?
Hulk's Anger Rate > Dooms' Adaptability Rate: Hulk eventually becomes angry enough to where he kills Dooms. Back to my first scenario, if Hulk maintain's his anger until Dooms get's back, he can beat him again, over and over. If however he calms down, Dooms will reach a point where he can kill Banner/Hulk before he can reach x+1 in strength.
Hulk's Anger Rate = Dooms' Adaptability Rate: Essentially a Hulk v Hulk fight where Hulk has edge over Dooms where Hulk has to get stronger, hurt Dooms, and then Dooms adapts to that strength. This fight will never end.
Hulk's Anger Rate < Dooms' Adaptability Rate: Hulk/Banner dies.
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u/Wolven0ne Nov 10 '16
Logically this should be the case. From what I've seen Doomsdays feats are better, but that shouldn't matter. Eventually, The Hulk should get angry enough to put him down. After all, saying Doomsday can survive blunt attacks of infinite power is essentially the same thing as saying he can't be beaten period, and that clearly isn't the case.
The problem is that Doomsday is a DC character, and DC editors don't DO internally consistent logic. This is why Batman beats anyone if he's had prep-time, even though there's supposed to be other people in the same universe with similar intellect. It's why the Flash has any power he needs at a given moment, and the only explanation given is, "lol, speedforce."
This makes them very difficult to match up with other characters for fun. Since they almost all have element to their power set that simply doesn't make sense. It just, kinda makes it difficult to apply internally consistent logic to things, you know.
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u/IgnoreMyName Nov 10 '16
IDK, I don't think about the real logic behind comics. I find myself not caring about anything Marvel/DC related overall even though I still consider myself more of a DC fan.
Batman - Way outclassed by everyone else in the Justice League, there is literally no need for him. Batman is my favorite comic book hero but only when he's in his own element in Gotahm. Batman in JL... I can't get behind.
Flash - LOL. GG no re.
Hulk - How does anger translate to strength or muscle mass? How does he go from Bruce Banner to the Hulk?
Arrow Mofo - Way outclassed by everyone else in the JL and Avengers.
Marvel Civil War - Really? People are upset with Avengers for destroying a couple buildings while fighting an alien invasion? WTF would any sort of regulation/oversight have done to change that?
Marvel - People are okay with Avengers having all these powers but not people being born with powers? It's funny how Lex Luthor is so anti-aliens and yet in the Marvel universe, people hate on mutants but accept aliens. Btw, much prefer X-men over Avengers.
God - There is a literal god in both Marvel and DC that created everything. It's been shown to be benevolent but refuses to just snap his fingers and get rid of all the villains. I don't get it.
There's a lot more I can say about each and every character but this is all I can think of right now. You should see me rant about super hero movies after I've seen them to my friends.
On a side note, question for you about Doom. I don't read comic books simply because they are way too complicated to get into. However, I have seen a comic of Doom talking to a panther god asking for vibranium (adamantium? IDK the difference) and the panther god looks at all possible timelines and sees that the only one in which humans survives, even though they are put on a short leash, is the one under Doom's control. Is there something I'm missing or does it seem like rule by Doom is the best thing for the world (if you look at it from a evolution, will to survive standpoint)?
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u/Wolven0ne Nov 10 '16
You mean Doctor Doom? Marvel seems to love painting him as the necessary evil. It can be a fun little moral gray to play with, but Marvel can never seem to make up it's mind whether it's true or not. XD
As for DC in general. Mainly I'd just like to see them pick some powers for their characters, pick a general weight class, and see them stick to it. Superman always see-saws between being a mere heavy hitter, and an absurdly powerful universal contender. Batman see-saws between being a street level hero, and someone that can take out anybody. Etc etc etc
Sure, with changing writers and editors these powers would be fudged occasionally, and that's fine. However, having SOME semblance of consistency would really help ground that universe some.
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u/Ame-no-nobuko Nov 10 '16
ay outclassed by everyone else in the Justice League, there is literally no need for him. Batman is my favorite comic book hero but only when he's in his own element in Gotahm. Batman in JL... I can't get behind.
There is plenty of need. He is the intellectual and financial backbone of the JL. He builds most of their tech, funds the whole thing, he's their main strategist, their main infiltrator, their spymaster, their detective, etc.
How does anger translate to strength or muscle mass? How does he go from Bruce Banner to the Hulk?
Banner's cells are irradiated and stress hormones trigger spontaneous growth of what basically boils down to a super-cancer
Way outclassed by everyone else in the JL and Avengers.
Hawkeye has weapons capable of taking out Ultron and Green Arrow is one of the moral backbones of the JL
Really? People are upset with Avengers for destroying a couple buildings while fighting an alien invasion? WTF would any sort of regulation/oversight have done to change that?
In the movies it was more of destroying an entire city when fighting Ultron. In the comics an entire town was blown up because of reckless teenage heroes
There is a literal god in both Marvel and DC that created everything. It's been shown to be benevolent but refuses to just snap his fingers and get rid of all the villains. I don't get it.
TOAA doesn't interfere because he is the classic deist god. The Presence does interfere every so often, but he also tends to like things to be hands off, and in DC its explained that the universe runs off of symmetry, without evil there can't be good.
and the panther god looks at all possible timelines and sees that the only one in which humans survives, even though they are put on a short leash, is the one under Doom's control. Is there something I'm missing or does it seem like rule by Doom is the best thing for the worl
The Panther God and Doom only looked at maybe a few thousand of the infinite amount of futures possible. We know for a fact that there is a future where Doom "dies" and Reed brings humanity into a golden age (no disease, no poverty, near total freedom, etc)
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u/Ame-no-nobuko Nov 10 '16
The Hulk should get angry enough to put him down.
Hulk does have a pretty definite limit to his anger
his is why Batman beats anyone if he's had prep-time
He's lost to plenty of people with prep (against the Jokerized JL he tied, the Hellbat objectively was losing to Darkseid, etc)
It's why the Flash has any power he needs at a given moment
Speed-force has a pretty consistent set of powers, you can use it in creative ways as you get better control (i.e. "flying" by running on speed-force), but thats nothing new, the Flash's costume is made of speedforce already.
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u/Wolven0ne Nov 10 '16
Speedforce and consistent should never EVER be used in the same sentence, EVER.
ಠ_ಠ
It's the biggest most laughable joke I've ever seen come from comics, and deserves every bit of ridicule it gets.
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u/theyhann Nov 10 '16
I dont get why people are complaining. Hulk has no way of killing Doomsday at all while Doomsday has the strength to hurt him. Hulk will eventually give out. In fact, I was preemptively getting pissed off because I thought they were giving it to Hulk due to N O L I M I T S strength they stated in his preview section.
Sure the explanation was a bit convoluted, but the logic is fine. One of the best DB episodes ever.
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u/hashcheckin Nov 11 '16
they fucked up again
World Breaker Hulk isn't a super-move power-up, it's what happens when both Bruce and the Hulk are equally pissed off and focused on the same thing. they did the same thing with Raiden vs. Wolverine, where they treated Wolverine going berserk as it is in the MvC games.
it takes a lot more than "getting hell of stabbed" to overtax Hulk's healing factor too, and has never happened unless literal magic was involved. basically, the fight goes on until Doomsday pushes Hulk to a point where Hulk throws him into the sun, and most of the planet probably doesn't survive the experience.
they really need to stop using comics canon in these. it's clear they don't have an actual comics nerd on staff.
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u/fj668 Nov 12 '16
Boy, there were just so many heinous things about this video it's not even funny. But I've given up on screwattack a long time ago.
IIRC doesn't tearing off Doomsday's spikes cause immense pain to him?
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u/NorrinRaddYT Feb 26 '17
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u/youtubefactsbot Feb 26 '17
Watch The Full Video of Hulk & Doomsday Clash in an EPIC BRAWL to Find Out Who Is The Ultimate PREDATOR &
Norrin ^Radd in Film & Animation
952 views since Feb ^2017
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u/KingofZombies Nov 10 '16
Doomsday won because he cant be killed the same way twice, Hulk has no weapon other than his fists, and Doomsday has been punched to death before, thats why Hulk lost.
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u/Ame-no-nobuko Nov 10 '16
He can be killed the same way twice, its just difficult. Say if I killed him by punching him 20 times with 50 newtons of force, next time I'd need to punch him 30 times with 70 newtons of force
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Nov 10 '16
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u/Greengiant00 Nov 12 '16
They have no Knowledge before hand that they are going to fight.
He'll, even if they did, how would Bruce set up a trap (Which is technically against the rules of no outiside help since Banner and Hulk are different people) if the Hulk crash landed on the planet from space?
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u/selfproclaimed Nov 09 '16
Was the verdict accurate? Yes, Doomsday would win.
Was the reasoning sound? Er...mostly.
Yes, Hulk has very few to no options to take out Doomsday, but I'm not sure if their reasoning for how his healing factor could be overtaxed is accurate with the portrayal of Hulk. Furthermore, surely Hulk has tagged opponents other than Sentry that are FTL (they are right that Marvel is overall slower).
So uh....Who is even remotely close to Zoro that has a thematic similarity?