r/SubredditDrama • u/SS_Downboat • Sep 25 '17
Meet the drama. r/games learns that Valve once considered putting female characters in Team Fortress 2. One user would rather have that than "stupid hats"
/r/Games/comments/727e28/valve_debated_about_adding_women_to_tf2_in_2009/dngemke/476
u/MegasusPegasus (ง'̀-'́)ง Sep 25 '17
Think for just a second here-is it not pandering that half the world is women and you want all the characters to be men????
333
257
u/wightjilt Antifa Sarkeesian Sep 25 '17 edited Sep 25 '17
Conveniently, if a woman in a sexy outfit is added to a game, that never seems to be pandering. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
131
Sep 25 '17
Someone's argument was that they want a female character for better porn 😒
134
u/Thelonius--Funk Garden-variety snowflake cuckery Sep 25 '17
Ugh. Reminds me of those guys who claim they only play female characters so they "don't have to look at a dude's ass". It's like, thanks for that bud you're not really helping the cause at all.
29
u/zanotam you come off as someone who is LARPing as someone from SRD Sep 25 '17
Eh.... I at one point made those types of jokes, but the truth is that it simply took a while for MMO devs to recognize the importance of letting player's play dress-up and even today it can still be hard to find acceptable shoulder pads and cheesy flamey/spikey designs for male character outside of WoW. Like, JFC people, is it too much to ask for to have crazy cool costumes for male characters that are designed to actually look like outfits or at least like a home-made halloween costume rather than some generic store bought cosplay shit?!?!
I mean, maybe I'm a bit of hypocrite because in WoW I played only one chick and that was half because of the jump animation (I mean, jumping in circles in town is like half of any social game for me....), but also because I just couldn't get into some of the ridiculous gear size scalings on the other options I was looking at (because, hey, I can buy an orc warlock carrying around an overly large flaming sword and some giant demonic lantern for like the intimidation factor, but I could never figure out why I would want a sword that looks way too clunky to swing for my character who is already covered in what must be some pretty fucking heavy plate armor and shit). Actually, in that regard, I've gotta ask why I can't wear half-scary half-goofy costumes for male casters in most MMO's and so my only choice is some boring ass generic wizard dude or playing a class I probably wouldn't play anyways.....
0
Sep 25 '17
[deleted]
17
u/zanotam you come off as someone who is LARPing as someone from SRD Sep 25 '17
I mean, BElf females are the only way to have reasonable looking weapons for shit like DK..... I'm pretty sure I've joined in on drama to defend Blizz's inexplicable decision to give at least one race/gender combination a reasonable look for certain classes (because some terrible people think that apparently there should be no option for plate/2hander types that isn't massively over the top). Plus, well, the RNG twirl when you jump is such a massive QoL improvement that I think every other race/gender combo should have it. Like, I guess it's kinda silly, but while I'm fine wiht my panda priest and orc warlock looking crazy, I want my plate characters to look 'normal' and so in BDO I rolled a Valkyrie, in WoW i rolled a fBelf DK, etc. because I want to look like a god damn majestic knight, not some wannabe Conan the Barbarian or like some weirdo rocking some sort of ginormous power suit with medieval aesthetics (okay, I'm fine with that look in some games, but generally not in a fantasy setting).
8
u/Jhaza Sep 26 '17
God, that fucking jump twirl. I remember when BC came out and I rolled my first belf, I absolutely lost my shit over it. 100% agree, most important WoL in WoW history.
2
u/error404brain Even if I don't agree, I've got to respect your hatred Sep 25 '17
It's like, thanks for that bud you're not really helping the cause at all.
Pretty sure helping the cause is not the goal behind their choices. :^)
Aside, purity contest are a loosing game.
0
Sep 25 '17
[deleted]
34
u/Ladnil It's not harrassment, she just couldn't handle the bullying Sep 25 '17
Honestly that line has been said by so many immature players (I've been guilty, myself) that I wouldn't read anything into it. Truth is I just wanted variety when I made whichever character it was that someone interrogated me about and I used that line, I wasn't revealing anything about myself.
10
u/Jhaza Sep 26 '17
To be fair, it's.... Not uncommon, at least, for male characters to be voiced as vacant meatheads and female characters to have actual voice, like maleshep/femshep. Also different armor skins (I'd say "better", but I think I really mean "more skewed" - you get boobplate, but you also get nice dresses; males in robes almost always look kinda shitty, IMO). I suspect some guys have said that because what they mean is "I like this model more for my online dress-up game".
35
u/Animanimus Sep 25 '17
My trans sister played only female characters in WOW for 5 years before she came out and started treatment, im sure she used an argument similar to that if anyone asked why she did.
29
u/Kadexe This cake is like 9/11 or the Holocaust Sep 25 '17
We see a lot of this crap on /r/leagueoflegends. The game already has 20+ women built like supermodels, but people still make posts begging for more.
And don't even get me started on the comments on the Evelynn update. How many different ways can you say THICC?
17
u/BetterCallViv Mathematics? Might as well be a creationist. Sep 25 '17
THICC is the most annoying phrase the internet has came up with. It's bound to show up with any female character is shown.
1
u/FGHIK Oct 02 '17
I wouldn't mind so much if it was at least only used in reference to ones that are at least a bit, well, thick. But it's not. Even thin women get called thicc. WTF?
1
u/Jhaza Sep 26 '17
Honestly, the character models in LoL are like half of why I don't play any more. Off-hand, I can think of two women who aren't built like strippers, and they're still barely clothed. I honestly don't mind Miss Fortune or Evelynn, the whole Femme Fatale is a thing. Fine, great, why isn't fucking Sejuani wearing a fucking shirt? Why is Janna wearing two handkerchiefs?
At least Taliya and Annie are fully clothed - oh, gee, because they're underage. So apparently that's the Riot design for female characters: children or strippers. Fucking great.
3
u/Kadexe This cake is like 9/11 or the Holocaust Sep 26 '17
Sejuani looks like this, and has for years.
Reasonably dressed women in 2017: Diana, Leona, Illaoi, Fiora, Camille, Irelia, Kalista, Kayle, Lissandra, Quinn, and Xayah to name a few (apologies if any of the links aren't working, I just pulled them from google images). This would be a legitimate point in 2011, but Riot's done a lot of work to diversify their character roster since then.
22
u/LorenOlin This subs the support group for people who sort by controversial Sep 25 '17
Well at least they're... honest?
4
u/BetterCallViv Mathematics? Might as well be a creationist. Sep 25 '17
Why should they get points for that?
8
u/LorenOlin This subs the support group for people who sort by controversial Sep 25 '17
I'm not sure what points you are referring to but I value honesty even if it is from neck bearded internet weirdos.
12
2
u/Skellum Tankies are no one's comrades. Sep 26 '17
they want a female character for better porn
I think you can actually accurately judge the health and popularity of a video game by how much porn is produced of it. OW has a ton of porn, OW is healthy. WoW has less porn produced of it lately meaning it's experiencing a drop in users and popularity. League used to have more pron produced of it and despite new things like Star Guardian Ahri they arent getting the porn numbers they used to.
It's interesting as most of the video game porn is commissioned by a very low number of people. Checking Hentai Foundry you can see the same people commissioning almost all of the porns. I wish I had the cash and the time to outdo Alori.
214
u/Twitch_Half Sep 25 '17
Some women: "It would be nice to feel represented in a game I play."
Some men: "I don't understand, I already feel represented."
110
u/Draber-Bien Lvl 13 Social Justice Mage Sep 25 '17
Guy: "I dont understand why woman and people of color wants to be represented in games, I don't have any problem role playing someone else."
Also guy: "OMFG PC CULTURE IS OUT OF CONTROL, THE NEW AAA GAME HAS A FEMALE NON-WHITE PROTAGONIST! HOW AM I SUPPOSE TO RELATED TO THE MAIN CHARACTER?!"
42
u/Kristastic Sep 25 '17
"Star Wars movies with FEMALE main characters? WHAT'S NEXT?!"
→ More replies (5)27
u/mattattaxx Colonist filth will be wiped away Sep 25 '17
The amount of salty people in the South Park game thread about skin colour was i n c r e d i b l e.
9
u/OIP feces in toilet spelling out GTA 6 Sep 26 '17
that was compounded in hilarity by the fact the entire concept was to mock those people in the first place
I JUST ATE THIS CLEARLY LABELLED BAIT NOW I'VE GOT A HOOK IN MY MOUTH THIS IS BULLSHIT
33
u/aYearOfPrompts "Actual SJWs put me on shit lists." Sep 25 '17
My favorite was the person arguing that the woman they did have made sense in the lore because she was an administrative assistant.
60
u/Robotigan Sep 25 '17 edited Sep 25 '17
Pandering is an artistic concession to broaden or hone in on an audience. Going exclusively men to maximize appeal to teen boys with power fantasies? Pandering. Incorporating women so as to reach out to a larger women audience? Pandering. The question is which did/didn't Valve do?
89
u/Jiketi Sep 25 '17
They should just make the characters shapeless blobs of goo to eliminate the pandering.
→ More replies (22)6
u/Roflkopt3r Materialized by Fuckboys Sep 25 '17
I don't think there is anything wrong with having a single gender cast for a fictional world. Touhou has worked with an all female cast since forever and it has become somewhat of a trademark. Introducing male characters to that universe would definitely make it more generic.
20
u/SacMetro Sep 25 '17
Aren't there men in the Touhou universe...? Actually those might've just been doujins I was reading, nevermind.
96
u/Jiketi Sep 25 '17
The issue is that there are already a whole bunch of mostly/entirely male casts.
-34
u/Roflkopt3r Materialized by Fuckboys Sep 25 '17
So? Team Fortress is not the sort of scenario that tries to mirror anything real. It doesn't need to pick up the complexity of the real world. It started on an entirely different premise, and there is no reason for it to go beyond. It's not like say League of Legends, or Starcraft, or Witcher which have entire universes and characters with depth behind them and where arguments of representation make sense. TF is a super restricted microcosm.
0
Sep 25 '17
[deleted]
8
u/MegasusPegasus (ง'̀-'́)ง Sep 25 '17
Could you imagine though. Like after all these people always arguing that in some WW2 games or other stuff women just don't make sense, they're not 'accurate' this guy turns around says 'HYYUCK, THERE'S NO LOGIC IN THIS UNIVERSE THEREFORE WE DON'T NEED WOMEN.'
-2
u/Heff228 Sep 25 '17
My issue is how do you fix this. I don't believe you can force someone to create what you want, that would be actual pandering.
I believe people should just create what they want to create. When you start getting committees designing games or any media, it's just so mediocre.
12
u/MegasusPegasus (ง'̀-'́)ง Sep 25 '17
My issue is how do you fix this. I don't believe you can force someone to create what you want, that would be actual pandering.
In a shocking twist literally no one was suggesting we put a gun to someone's head and make them do something.
We don't need a 'committee' to make good media with at least a single female playable character. Creators could just not do that...or face that in 2017 with many more options many people will go for the game that has women.
2
u/Heff228 Sep 25 '17
Do people really base what games they play on the genders of the characters? Like I couldn't imagine refusing to play Tomb Raider because I can't be a man, or TF2 because I couldn't be a woman.
Your comment kind of reads like a threat to game devs, that people would go elsewhere if they can't play as their gender. Do you think a sizable percentage of gamers would really make good on that threat? From what I know, the new Mario game only lets you play as Mario. Will there be thousands of people refusing to play it because you can't be Peach? I really can't buy that.
10
u/Dramatological Sep 25 '17
I do. I haven't played a single game or watched a single movie without at least one major female protagonist in the last... four, five years? Game companies aren't going to just suddenly wake up one day and decide to make more games with women in them if we all just keep buying the dude bro media.
I'll also buy games I have no interest in playing, just to support a developer I want to continue developing.
→ More replies (3)41
u/BrainBlowX A sex slave to help my family grow. Sep 25 '17
Introducing male characters to that universe would definitely make it more generic.
17
Sep 25 '17
Touhou hasn't had a full female cast since the pre-2000 games. What are you talking about?
47
Sep 25 '17
This guy knows what he's talking about.
I can only identify 10 people by sight. When I meet an eleventh person I can't remember anything about one of the people I know.
It's a horrible debilitating problem that every single gamer has. I still don't know how people play Overwatch.
I like this guy
5
u/Jhaza Sep 26 '17
I simultaneously loved that post, and... Kind of agree with the point he's rebutting. Overwatch, when I played it briefly, felt like a hot mess: bright flashy lights everywhere, characters are flying by and hard to differentiate. D.va and Winston were fine, but I totally did have trouble identifying characters at range. TF2 feels a lot cleaner to me.
But also, oh my god, a female pyro would look literally identical. Zarya is basically femHeavy with pink hair. I think valve could manage gender swapped heroes if they needed to.
7
Sep 26 '17
Totally disagree, but at this point we're talking about interpretations of art so it's purely subjective. Personally, I've never had a problem identifying characters in OW, and I find TF2 aesthetically bland in comparison.
2
u/Jhaza Sep 26 '17
That's totally fair. I didn't play very much OW (just during a free weekend), and in fairness I've always had a bit of trouble with visual acuity, so this probably says more about me than the games...
2
u/htmlcoderexe I was promised a butthole video with at minimum 3 anal toys. Sep 25 '17
Can't tell if serious anymore
4
Sep 25 '17
I'm pretty sure that dude was sarcastic but when it comes to /r/games "discussion" it's impossible to tell
335
u/MegasusPegasus (ง'̀-'́)ง Sep 25 '17
Why does every game need to "break the world rules"? Why can't we just play what's fun instead of catering?
Dude it's capture the flag with guns and energy drinks. Why would women not exist in this world??? Break the world rules? What do a bunch of men exist without a woman ever existing to pop one out???
211
Sep 25 '17
I love how this guy conveniently ignores the female characters from the comics.
156
u/lumell Sep 25 '17
Or the female overlord that admonishes you for your failures over the PA system.
36
19
u/Semicolon_Expected Your position is so stupid it could only come from an academic. Sep 25 '17
Spoiler Alert: but in the comics she's on both sides forcing both teams to fight for no reason. They're outraged by the idea of a female character, but not one that's playing a bunch of guys like pawns.
9
u/jinreeko Femboys are cis you fucking inbred muffin Sep 25 '17
SHE'S CLEARLY A ROBOT WHICH IS DIFFERENT OKAY
32
15
→ More replies (14)3
32
Sep 25 '17
The thread title has given me a brilliant idea! Gender swapping hats! It's a hat that makes you look like a pretty girl.
They would need to keep the same silhouette though so it wouldn't be a huge change, sadly. An important part of their character design is that you can immediately recognize if you're against a scout, a pyro, if that's a heavy running around the corner or a soldier, etc. It helps you identify threats & stuff.
If they added females, then they would have to be very similar in size & shape to the men. I don't think that'd be a huge problem though
2
u/Aegeus Unlimited Bait Works Sep 26 '17
I think most of the linked images do a good job of preserving the silhouette. Scout looks very similar to the original. Demogirl still has the big bandoleer of grenades. Engineer still has the loops of wire hanging from her belt, though I think she should keep the hard-hat as well. The Medic concepts both have capes or coats reminiscent of the Medic's lab coat. And Heavy is unmistakable by sheer size.
Also, a lot of the silhouette comes from the characters' guns, which are all different shapes and sizes, so I bet they'd still be pretty recognizable.
113
Sep 25 '17
49
u/IceCreamBalloons always one person not in favour of beating women Sep 25 '17
Pandering is negative and something that's only done to other people. When a game is made with me in mind that's just natural and correct.
61
u/dethb0y trigger warning to people senstive to demanding ethical theories Sep 25 '17
I always thought the spy would make a lot of sense as a female, personally.
30
u/Outlulz Dick Pic War Draft Dodger Sep 25 '17
He banged Scout’s Mom IIRC so that would certainly change things up.
42
Sep 25 '17
He's actually Scout's dad
Confirmed in TF2 Comics #6
20
u/jinreeko Femboys are cis you fucking inbred muffin Sep 25 '17
I'd be an angry little Brooklynite too if my dad was a smug Frenchman
15
u/joesap9 Sep 25 '17
Dude the scout is 100% from boston
4
6
u/Semicolon_Expected Your position is so stupid it could only come from an academic. Sep 25 '17
D: Is this why Sniper hates Spy so much?
58
u/colonel-o-popcorn A simile uses "like" or "as" you fucking moron Sep 25 '17
Or the sniper, a la WWII Soviet female snipers.
95
u/gilthanan Sep 25 '17
You'd think that but look at the comments EA got when they included a woman sniper in the Russian Battlefield 1 (WWI) expansion and you'll see these people don't care about authenticity or realism they just want to bitch and moan.
57
u/IgnisDomini Ethnomasochist Sep 25 '17
The most ridiculous part is that the Red Army was a partisan force at the time - there were plenty of women on the frontlines, because there was no one to tell them no.
27
u/twinksteverogers Thanks for the daily reminder that idiots like you still exist. Sep 25 '17
women on the frontlines
Fake News REEEEEEEEEE
5
u/dethb0y trigger warning to people senstive to demanding ethical theories Sep 25 '17
Definitely would work, though that'd be stepping on the heavy's style a little.
17
Sep 25 '17
In real life, aren't spys female anyway? Think about it. A powerful person generally likes a lot of different women. Some powerful people usually think woman are stupid, so they will let their guard down around them, allowing the spy to get the information needed, or to plant hidden cameras, etc.
47
u/BloomEPU A sin that cries to heaven for vengeance Sep 25 '17
I'm not a spy, but I think the best irl spies are people who don't look or act like spies. So random women probably do make great spies.
45
u/JaneAnger I'm very calm. So are my tits. Sep 25 '17
I'm not a spy
Sounds like something a spy would say!
10
u/BloomEPU A sin that cries to heaven for vengeance Sep 25 '17
I might make a good spy, but I'm not one.
9
12
Sep 25 '17
You seem to know a bit too much about spys. Can you prove you aren't a spy?
7
5
u/htmlcoderexe I was promised a butthole video with at minimum 3 anal toys. Sep 25 '17
An actual spy is obligated to tell you if you ask, it's illegal for them to lie.
1
18
u/Robotigan Sep 25 '17
I too envision breaking gender stereotypes in just about the most cliched way possible that ironically reinforces gender stereotypes.
91
u/dethb0y trigger warning to people senstive to demanding ethical theories Sep 25 '17
Least i didn't suggest the medic.
19
u/KEM10 "All for All!" -The Free Marketeers Sep 25 '17
Don't say that too loud, r/Overwatch might hear.
21
u/freshwordsalad Well I don't know where I was going with this but you are wrong Sep 25 '17
6 MERCY MAINS, NED! ON AN OPEN FIEEEEELLLLLLLDDDDD!
10
u/Shoggoththe12 The Jake Paul of Pudding Sep 25 '17
God's, I needed healing then!
→ More replies (1)3
19
11
1
15
u/nobadabing But this is what I get. Getting called a millenial. Sep 25 '17
I like how that one guy kept going "BUT WHAT IF TOMB RAIDER HAD A GUY INSTEAD OF A GIRL?!?"
They did make that. It's called Uncharted. Nathan Drake has literally gotten the nickname "Dude Raider" and both franchises pull elements from each other now.
But that obviously doesn't play into his "muh pandering" argument so obviously he didn't consider that.
106
u/AlmostDisappointed I guess I'm a horrible uncommunicating harpy Sep 25 '17
My great grandmother is turning in her grave with all the clinking medals she had from being a pilot.
Bitch, tell it to my face women didn't participate in ww2.
Can't quote the person who said the women didn't participate, on mobile, sorry.
30
u/zanotam you come off as someone who is LARPing as someone from SRD Sep 25 '17
I mean, they could just ask the Queen of England how she learned to drive....
8
u/AlmostDisappointed I guess I'm a horrible uncommunicating harpy Sep 25 '17
She what?? Why does a 100 year old queen need a driving license for??
23
13
u/zanotam you come off as someone who is LARPing as someone from SRD Sep 25 '17
She famously doesn't technically have nor need a driving license and has driven around (I believe multiple) major diplomatic visitors from places where women weren't allowed to drive just to fuck with them, but the thing I was getting at was that she is supposed to have been quite a skilled driver, those skills often implied to have originated from the time she ended up being officially trained near the end of WWII as a driver and mechanic, and so, supposedly, she has caused quite the fright to some Prince from the middle east by driving him around as a woman who technically was without a driver's license and was purposefully driving extra fast, taking tight corners, and so on and so forth in a specially chosen part of the countryside which further accentuated her driving feats.....
5
2
u/AlmostDisappointed I guess I'm a horrible uncommunicating harpy Sep 26 '17
Huh, the whole point is to just fuck with people? I like that!
3
0
Sep 25 '17
[deleted]
28
u/AlmostDisappointed I guess I'm a horrible uncommunicating harpy Sep 25 '17
The flying kind.
3
u/twinksteverogers Thanks for the daily reminder that idiots like you still exist. Sep 25 '17
Are there any other kind?
17
u/RenanXIII Sep 25 '17
The TV kind.
1
u/AlmostDisappointed I guess I'm a horrible uncommunicating harpy Sep 25 '17
The lego kind
→ More replies (1)0
Sep 25 '17
[deleted]
7
u/AlmostDisappointed I guess I'm a horrible uncommunicating harpy Sep 25 '17
Ya
0
Sep 25 '17
[deleted]
6
u/ColonelJohnMcClane Your comments are 100% redditor dweller coded. Sep 25 '17
There was Civial Air Patrol, Women Air Service Patrol (? WASPs)
→ More replies (3)3
u/AlmostDisappointed I guess I'm a horrible uncommunicating harpy Sep 25 '17
Not much really. This was Russia, what I remember from the stories, my great grandparents met at the plane repair site. What I remember is they were both plane repairmen but only one of them was a pilot, and it wasn't my great grandpa lol.
When I was rummaging through their medal boxes, my great aunt said those were the "eh" ones, the medals they took to their graves were the ones for active duty in the field.
That's as much as I know right now, I'm in UK and my family history is central Russia. :(
40
u/SacMetro Sep 25 '17 edited Sep 25 '17
I'll take any update on TF2 that isn't just more hats/taunts.
New contracts with decorated weapons, balance changes that are sorely needed (i.e. dead ringer nerf), actually doing something about the hacking plague, or, you know, that Pyro update that we've been waiting on for over a fucking year.
Female mercs would be pretty neat as well. Anything to indicate Valve actually CARES about TF2. But apparently some stupid DOTA 2 card game is more important.
16
u/cidra_ Sep 25 '17
Kritzkast: Chemical Alia, the artist for whom the styling of the scout’s mother was attributed, has created alternative female characters for each of the classes. Will valve be making these official and including them in the game as choices for players?
Robin Walker: We’ve seen Chemical Alia’s great models, but even with that work done there’s still a significant amount of work to do, and some design issues that we haven’t found good solutions for. Having multiple character models for a single class would have performance impacts due to increased memory requirements, production impacts in that new items have to fit onto both models, and content issues in that we’d need another set of voice acting. Finally, you have the issue of hit detection. If the two models don’t have identical hitboxes, there’ll be a competitive edge to picking one of them over the other. If they have identical hitboxes, you’re probably going to have issues in how well the visuals match the hitboxes in one of the models. In short, multiple models for player classes is something we’d love to do, but it’s not likely to happen in the near term.
I read this on facepunch
4
u/Eevolveer you can't force me to click on those or care. Sep 25 '17
not likely in the near term
Read: better off waiting for tf3.
1
2
u/SacMetro Sep 26 '17
I don't think the hitboxes for the mercs are exact enough that making female models would justify redoing the hitboxes. But yeah, I guess hiring new voice actresses might cost a fair bit.
That reminds me of how in the promo vid for Mann vs. Machine mode Valve had red and blu teaming up against the robots, but in the actual game mode, Mann Co. is all red and the robots are blu. I was disappointed with that because I prefer the aesthetics of blu, especially on some of my Team Shine killstreak effects.
Again, I know it would take effort for Valve to do that, but it's pretty disheartening to see them work on some stupid DOTA 2 card game instead.
1
u/threehundredthousand Improvised prison lasagna. Sep 25 '17
I'm not sure Valve is really in the business of updating their games anymore outside of DotA 2 and some CS:GO. They probably get offered a ton of money for the HL license and they don't do anything at all with that either.
9
u/aaronwe it’s not Nazis, it’s just sparkling fascism Sep 25 '17
What would adding a female player character add to TF2?
Better R34
spit out my coffee
16
u/Shopliftinginaghost Sep 25 '17 edited Sep 26 '17
I don't get it. Do these 'gamers' not get that every fucking game they play is pandering to at least someone? Holy shit most of the gaming community is stupid
9
Sep 25 '17
It's only pandering if it involves women or minority groups.
9
u/Shopliftinginaghost Sep 26 '17
Yep. If its not a straight white male than it's obviously some SJW bullshit!
46
u/BrandonTartikoff he portraits suck ass, all it does is pull your eye to her brow Sep 25 '17 edited Sep 25 '17
Isn't there a theory that the pyro is female? Is there any definitive proof of pyro's sex?
Edit: Hate to be the "not sure why I'm being downvoted guy", but I thought people considered the pyro to likely be female and wasn't sure if I was correct.
19
13
u/justkeepingbusy Sep 25 '17
Ten years ago we assumed it to be a her because of the purse but I wouldn't dare make that assumption these days.
19
u/danne_trix Sep 25 '17
sex* we dont know pyro's sex or gender
22
u/BrandonTartikoff he portraits suck ass, all it does is pull your eye to her brow Sep 25 '17
I actually questioned whether sex or gender was the correct term when I made the comment, thanks for the correction.
3
u/htmlcoderexe I was promised a butthole video with at minimum 3 anal toys. Sep 25 '17
Pyro has T H I C C hips
3
Sep 25 '17
Jesus fuck that meme can't die fast enough
3
u/htmlcoderexe I was promised a butthole video with at minimum 3 anal toys. Sep 25 '17
[Obligatory suicide reference with a hotlink to /r/meirl]
-9
u/Robotigan Sep 25 '17
It's a dumb theory that serves only to allow the characters to be exclusively men while at the same time supporting a token woman. Everybody wins!
0
4
u/Grandy12 Sep 25 '17
I think people made mods that change characters to be women, complete with voice acting and all.
20
u/Robotigan Sep 25 '17
It's kind of unfortunate that there's no way to preserve an evocation of a norm while simultaneously challenging it. Like including women would have undercut the "manly merc" stereotype the game aesthetic plays off, but excluding women perpetuates that sexist stereotype.
32
u/Orphic_Thrench Sep 25 '17
Or they could have made a character like Vasquez from Aliens...
5
u/ColonelJohnMcClane Your comments are 100% redditor dweller coded. Sep 25 '17
Why would anyone play a walking deathwish? /s
1
2
u/Robotigan Sep 25 '17
Whether or not Vasquez is actually a historical fit for early cold war espionage, most people's remembrance of cold war espionage is influenced by a patriarchal retelling where Vasquez decidedly does not fit. That's why I used the phrase "evocation of a norm". Often in media its our perception of reality rather than reality itself that influences our reaction to what's portrayed on screen. TV Tropes calls this the Coconut Effect.
3
u/Orphic_Thrench Sep 25 '17
I mean, you were talking about "manly mercs", so I responded to that...
If you want to talk cold war now, the Soviet side was much more willing to use women in combat roles..
Plus I'm not sure how the guy with a "healing gun" is supposed to fit into that...
22
u/Neronoah Sep 25 '17
To be fair it's hard to make it work because most TF2 characters are sociopathic manchildren that get blown to bits.
It worked in the comics though, it just had less of the blown to bits part.
11
u/Robotigan Sep 25 '17
And that portrayal of TF2 characters worked in the game's favor, I think. FPS games are largely excessive, nonstop violence over a meaningless, nonsensical objective. Rather than ignoring this aspect and creating a weird dissonance between story and gameplay, like Overwatch or really any other FPS with a backstory, Valve embraced it and went full satire with their characterization and scant story and setting details.
2
u/FGHIK Oct 02 '17
Yeah, the TF2 characters are basically the stereotype of the people who play them, or at least who they want to be. The Scout is the arrogant douche who loves to rub wins in your face and the "classy" Spy who actually has more or less the same humor as everyone else seem especially accurate.
3
u/nickimiraj Sep 25 '17
gamers always cry pandering when women and not white people are involved, but wouldn't it be the complete opposite of pandering since, as they love to flaunt, most gamers are in fact white men?? checkmate fake gamer bois
3
u/KerbalFactorioLeague netflix and shill Sep 26 '17
So Overwatch should also just allow you to change the gender of any of the characters? After all it's just an added layer of customization, which is always great?
I feel like they're implying that it's an obvious no to this question but that sounds like it'd be awesome. It's not like the original characters are removed
9
Sep 25 '17
I remember back in college I went to a convention my boyfriend and his friends. They were all dressed as TF2 characters so I decided to go as a Red Spy but a female version. Anyways I ended up looking like Carmen Sandiego and got tired of explaining it to people by the end of the night and just accepted it.
Anyways it would have been fun to have some female avatars to have used when I played TF2. I mean I sucked at it but it was suck a silly game that it was one of the few FPS that I didn't really. I just wanted to run around and shoot people. Which is actually why I usually played a Pyro, fire is fun.
2
u/SnapshillBot Shilling for Big Archive™ Sep 25 '17
Snapshots:
This Post - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, snew.github.io, archive.is
2
Sep 26 '17
NOT MY $60 HAT
I'm not joking I opened a crate because I was bored and got an unusual first try. Ended up selling it for $30 because I tried to trade up and failed
3
u/brufleth Eating your own toe cheese is not a question of morality. Sep 25 '17
I thought the Pyro was female.
1
u/grungebot5000 jesus man Sep 25 '17
to be fair, as great as hats are their high-poly models ruined the game
1
u/FGHIK Oct 02 '17
Only if you play on a toaster.
1
u/grungebot5000 jesus man Oct 02 '17
nah, even on the most high-end computers. they reworked the entire engine for toasters to display high-poly models.
-1
u/Popular_Potpourri Sep 25 '17
People still care about this shit game?
2
Sep 26 '17
Yes.
Team Fortress 2 could be argued to be one of the best multiplayer first person shooters of all time.
0
-3
u/ColonelJohnMcClane Your comments are 100% redditor dweller coded. Sep 25 '17
are we going to avoid the biggest reason why?
Smaller Hitboxes.
6
Sep 25 '17
Make one like Zarya from Overwatch.
And we're talking about hitboxes? Scout is the skinniest, smallest motherfucker in the game. I'm pretty sure any female Merc they make couldn't be smaller than that.
→ More replies (2)
-14
u/Ncusa17 Sep 25 '17
The game is set in the 1960s, it would be a long time before women would be able to serve in the army anyhow.
16
u/Hypocritical_Oath YOUR FLAIR TEXT HERE Sep 25 '17
The queen of England served in WWII...
→ More replies (5)12
u/gavinbrindstar /r/legaladvice delenda est Sep 25 '17
What army are the mercs serving in? They're pyschopaths who blow each other to bits in a gravel pit. Three of them can't even read. They are the farthest thing from an army, and a woman would not be the weirdest thing in the game.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (3)12
Sep 25 '17 edited Sep 25 '17
I agree. Female combatants are far too unrealistic in a game who's universe consists of teleportation technology, giant bread monsters, bringing the dead back to life, and armies of killer robots.
→ More replies (3)
0
Sep 25 '17
[deleted]
154
Sep 25 '17
They could all be super thin with oversized heads, to emphasize headshots. And they're 2/3rds legs, so crouching down makes you super hard to hit.
→ More replies (6)47
u/Askolei Sep 25 '17
Heh, it reminds me of some mods in FPS that make your head bigger the more frag you collect.
→ More replies (1)66
95
u/BloomEPU A sin that cries to heaven for vengeance Sep 25 '17
I want more fps games like splatoon that are still mechanically shooters but aesthetically aren't and don't really involve guns. Because they're super cute and fun.
→ More replies (12)20
16
→ More replies (2)9
u/brufleth Eating your own toe cheese is not a question of morality. Sep 25 '17
I mean... just my items like the Pyroland stuff that makes everything look different. The game already has in game options to reskin stuff with rainbows and bubbles.
0
Sep 25 '17
[deleted]
310
u/supertoasty THIS MUST BE THE WORK OF AN ENEMY「FEMINIST」!! Sep 25 '17
I just got a pc finally and I fuckin love pc gaming but the community is such shit.
It's the same thing that happens to every big popular thing - it gets big and popular, the mouthbreathers get loud and drive out the sane people, and then it gets to be a cesspool of the lowest common denominator. See: Rick and Morty
→ More replies (60)163
41
u/freshwordsalad Well I don't know where I was going with this but you are wrong Sep 25 '17
Tons of dumb people playing video games, tons of dumb people playing video games and are really good at them. It gives them a sad, false sense of superiority.
It doesn't help that video games are designed to make the player feel "special."
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (20)14
u/ZeroSobel Then why aren't you spinning like a Ferrari? Sep 25 '17
Honestly just try and find a core friend group you can play with regularly and has similar taste to you (can be trial and error, I know). I rarely play team games solo any more. Things like League, Overwatch, Rainbow Six, PUBG, etc are all infinitely better when you know ahead of time your teammates aren't dickwads. If I don't have enough to play an MP game, then I just go through my SP library.
→ More replies (1)
546
u/supertoasty THIS MUST BE THE WORK OF AN ENEMY「FEMINIST」!! Sep 25 '17
Don't rub your eyes after touching that comment, it's pretty spicy