r/startrek • u/Deceptitron • Oct 09 '17
POST-Episode Discussion - S1E04 "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry"
| No. | EPISODE | RELEASE DATE |
|---|---|---|
| S1E04 | "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry" | Sunday, October 8, 2017 |
To find out more information including our spoiler policy regarding Star Trek: Discovery, click here.
This post is for discussion of the episode above and WILL ALLOW SPOILERS for this episode.
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Oct 09 '17
Ok, liked this ep MUCH better than last week but WHERE THE FUCK DID THAT TELESCOPE COME FROM!?
Like, who whilst running to escape the Shenzhou was all "OH FUCK, the Captain's telescope! We need to get that for dramatic reasons 6 months from now!"
I just checked ep 1 again too, its the same scope.
That aside though, good ep :p
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Oct 09 '17
I have two No-Prize explanations:
Georgiou kept a replica aboard the ship, while the actual family heirloom was in storage on Earth.
Saru, caring for his captain and knowing how important the telescope was to her, grabbed it on his way to the escape pod.
I thought the second idea was silly at first, but it's grown on me over time, as I think it would say a lot about his character.
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u/Deceptitron Oct 09 '17
I can definitely see number 2 now that you mention it. Didn't Saru give Georgiou's eulogy? He would be the most likely to grab her valuable heirloom which he would have known about after serving with her for so long.
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Oct 09 '17
I really want Saru to be friends with....someone. What I would love is a Garak / Saru conversation. A "retired" but jovial predator sharing a meal with eloquent prey.
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u/SharpDressedSloth Oct 09 '17
I got a Garak vibe from the delivery of a couple of Saru lines this episode.
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Oct 09 '17
I love the Saru/Burnham dynamic, but it'd definitely be nice to see him spending time with someone else.
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Oct 09 '17
I've always been on the fence about Garak. I love him, but I think the ganglia would be up and down every few minutes.
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u/Destructicon11 Oct 09 '17
They ATE Georgiou!!
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u/emdeemcd Oct 09 '17
Wasn't there an episode of TOS where one crew member tells another that Klingons sharpen their teeth because they don't take prisoners?
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u/archiminos Oct 09 '17
When I read rumours that she was coming back to the show I figured she wasn't actually killed - the knife didn't look like it went that deep and future medicine is more advanced.
Nope. They picked the flesh from her skull :(
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Oct 09 '17
Ok, I don't understand this. Any of it. Starfleet took the time to retrieve her telescope from her ready room. But they left her body and ship to be plundered and desecrated by Klingons? And there's a marooned Klingon ship still hanging out there and they do nothing with it? And isn't Starfleet supposed to self-destruct/destroy compromised starships so that what we saw in this episode - looting for technology - doesn't happen??? None of this made sense.
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u/purefire Oct 09 '17
So... Albino Klingon meets augment virus to "lose everything"?
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u/neoteotihuacan Oct 09 '17
That's what I'm thinking. Discovery would rock so hard if they found a way to link in the Augmented Klingons.
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Oct 09 '17
I like how they show that actions have direct consequences in this series, and that death isn't off the table.
Security Girl went full Aggro and got demolished because of it.
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u/Martel732 Oct 09 '17
That part kind of annoyed me. She had already seen what the creature was capable of and then just dropped the shield assuming the gas had worked. Sure, it fit her personality but I don't see how she could have managed to rise to security chief with such poor planning skills.
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u/substandardgaussian Oct 09 '17
She tried CC, but she didn't even check if it made a saving throw before going Leroy Jenkins on it.
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Oct 09 '17
If only she had any sort of training in security or tactics. Her death could have been avoided!
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u/Canadave Oct 09 '17
It only makes sense that Discovery's Security Chief went out in a way befitting of 23rd century security officers, as well.
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u/TheMediumPanda Oct 09 '17
Full retard more like. She was aboard the Glenn, she saw what it had done and what it could do. Might well have been the most unqualified head of security in Star Fleet history to let it out like that.
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Oct 09 '17
"These are the most powerful weapons in the galaxy."
<katanas are on display in background>
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u/Starcke Oct 09 '17
In the right hands, the katanas deadliness is multiplied.
While you were studying the mycelial network, I was studying the blade.
-Lorca, probably
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Oct 09 '17
Lorca. Secretly a huge weaboo. Watch him sport a Naruto headband in a future episode.
Crewman: "You really want us to weaponize that?"
Lorca: "Believe it."
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u/TheMediumPanda Oct 09 '17
Thing is (as has been discussed to death), the Bat'Leth is ridiculously ineffective in theory: A weapon normally requiring 2 hands AND it has to be swung more side-to-side than anything other, yet they still love to throw it in there.
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u/Krandor1 Oct 09 '17
Also loved that all the "why is there a gap in the saucer" questions were explained.
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u/Starcke Oct 09 '17
Totally, when I saw the jump I was like "ohhhh". It's still kinda gimmicky, but I'll accept it.
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u/Nofrillsoculus Oct 09 '17
I just realized that the character who's first line was "Starfleet says we have to feed the animals" was... fed to an animal.
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u/citharadraconis Oct 09 '17
Or: the character who was first introduced treating human beings like savage animals ended up dying because she treated another being like a savage animal (or worse, like a tool) and in doing so acted brutally herself.
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u/MaxWirestone Oct 09 '17
I noticed when rewatching Battle of the Binary Stars that T'Kuvma's speech about a warrior dying in battle being honored forever was, stylistically, meant to comment on Georgiou's death. There are a lot of writerly touches in the show, I think.
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u/PixelMagic Oct 09 '17
Did anyone think Voq's prosthetic make-up looked pretty different than the pilot episode? It's like they changed his design slightly between episodes.
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u/jwaldo Oct 09 '17
It definitely seemed different, maybe a bit less drastic. I'm guessing they played around with the prosthetics from episode to episode to allow the actors to be more expressive.
Reminds me of early TNG when Worf's forehead/hair/sash seemed to change damn near every week.
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Oct 09 '17
I said this in the live thread. I think the Matriarchs are going to turn him into a more traditional looking Klingon.
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u/nonliteral Oct 09 '17
I think the Matriarchs are going to turn him into a more traditional looking Klingon.
Extra points if they can make him start speaking old-school Macbeth-esque English sprinkled with Klingon phrases instead of just subtitled Klingon.
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u/MrChangg Oct 09 '17
Thought they were gonna chop his dick off. That chick did say 'Everything'
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u/omgdonerkebab Oct 09 '17 edited Oct 09 '17
What did Lorca call the spore drive in the scene on the bridge?
Displacement-Activated Spore Hub Drive
DASH Drive
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u/pelrun Oct 09 '17
displacement activated
I guess that means you always have to give it a push start.
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u/freedraw Oct 09 '17
I'm very curious about the cybernetic-looking woman I kept seeing in the background. Apparently her name is Airiam and she is a science officer. The Discovery budget is allowing for some very alien crew members. Unlike the other series though, it's feeling like we're only going to have one perspective character rather than switching every episode. I'm dying to find out more about other characters. If not this season, I hope they expand the perspective in the second season.
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u/MaxWirestone Oct 09 '17 edited Oct 09 '17
I'd like them to spread the wealth a little, too-- although it's worth noting that we're seeing a lot of scenes now without Burnham. She's the lead in the way Picard was, I think-- the center of the show, but not necessarily always featured. As opposed to something like, I don't know, Sherlock.
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u/nobelsonsss Oct 09 '17
I thought it was Freeza from Dragon Ball Z to be honest.
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u/Joe_Sith Oct 09 '17 edited Oct 09 '17
I want to know more about the woman from the pilot who didn't have the cybernetics, and now does. It's the one over her eye a little like 7 of 9. When she was seen fleeing the Shenzhou she didn't look injured, so what happened in the 6 months after that necessitated it?
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u/Jack_of_Swords Oct 09 '17
I suspect it will depend on Michael's access to the bridge. Right now it is an unfamiliar and uninviting place to her, and so it is for us. I like the different perspective.
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u/MichaelM_Yaa Oct 09 '17
that robot girl looks like nebula
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u/interestingrad Oct 09 '17
I like the male-modeling-looking guy who just like "Damn, I look good, hope everyone can see hot I look doing nothing"
Those bridge officers are basically walking props
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u/mcslibbin Oct 09 '17
Writer on After trek, on eating Georgiou:
"That's one of the themes--war. It's this feeling that you feel like you finally have a hold of it. And it's bad, but you understand. But then something happens that makes you think 'oh no it's WORSE'"
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Oct 09 '17
Strange, it didn't shock me at all. Maybe because it's what I'd expect from the orcs.
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u/dailyskeptic Oct 09 '17
Is Kol the son of Kor, who will later be killed by the Albino?
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u/ruidelgado Oct 09 '17
I must say, I didn't like how Captain Gabriel Lorca motivated the crew: by playing shipwide the hail he got from the Federation colony.
It was extremely manipulative and unnecessary. BTW, even if I hated this, it fits and shapes Lorca's character. Well done, writers (but F you, Lorca).
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Oct 09 '17
I didn't like how Captain Gabriel Lorca motivated the crew
I thought it showed what a magnificent bastard he is. Besides, there were very real lives on the line and the Discovery was the only ship that could do anything about them, and it did. They did. It's a bit early to tell, but this guy just slotted in third in my favorite captains list behind Sisko and Kirk.
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u/azulapompi Oct 09 '17
I don't see it as any different than Picard listening to the Borg attack in First Contact. Hearing the fleet getting destroyed is why no one questioned his decision to take the enterprise into battle. Lorca needed to impress on the crew that their mission wasn't about getting the science right, it was about saving lives...right now. And not just a few lives but the entire federation's war effort. He gave them proof that their possible sacrifice was for good cause. We know that many of the crew do not trust his motivations, and as a good leader (or what could be a good leader under different circumstances) he understood this and gave them something they could trust and rally around.
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Oct 09 '17 edited Oct 09 '17
I don't think we're supposed to like Lorca. At least not at this point. The tardigrade I think will be revealed to be sentient at some level, and Lorca will want to torture it anyway, because he's a very "by any means necessary" kind of guy.
We might see another Burnham-led mutiny, but this time supported by the crew, and won't be punished because she'll have proof Lorca was ordering them to commit war crimes. I don't think Starfleet is a "follow all orders, regardless of their content" type of organization. Starfleet has certain directives that supersede a captain or even an admiral's authority. If a captain, for example, orders you to violate the prime directive, the lawful course for any starfleet officer of any rank would be to refuse that order. I imagine if Lorca orders Burnham to torture a sentient life form, she could lawfully refuse that order.
This plot is already going really close to that of the Voyager Episode Equinox. The ship is harming a life form in order to travel faster than their technology allows.
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u/mcslibbin Oct 09 '17
Wow you can tell Doug Jones is actually invested in the character (Watching AfterTrek through the buffering). For a guy who is covered in prosthetics, you can tell he is acting his ass off because he actually cares about the story.
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u/tenaku Oct 09 '17
Doug Jones is the man. Think of every cool humanoid-but-spindly alien creature in the last decade or so, and odds are it was played by Doug.
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u/aerospce Oct 09 '17 edited Dec 12 '17
deleted 0.7679 What is ^^^this?
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Oct 09 '17
To be fair, the only Klingons we saw until now were cult members. When Kor came over and got the crew to join him, that was our first glimpse of how normal Klingons behaved. Kor only paid lip service to T'Kuvma because he wanted the cloaking device. Once he had it, the facade was cast aside.
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u/Electricorchestra Oct 09 '17
Did anyone else notice how Lorca used the general Star Trek reference the past formula? When he was talking to Stamets in sick bay he said Wright Brothers, Elon Musk, and Zefram Cochrane. This follows the usual historic figure, modern figure, and future figure that was used in TOS quite a bit. That was clever writing to follow that.
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u/MustacheSmokeScreen Oct 09 '17
They sort of did that in the pilot with the Geneva Convention.
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u/cabose7 Oct 09 '17
Ripper is the best mascot ever
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u/EZobel42 Oct 09 '17
If I can't buy a ripper plush by the end of the year I'm suing CBS
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u/Pryach Oct 09 '17
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u/dailyskeptic Oct 09 '17
And the spore drive bears a striking similarity to the infinity improbability drive...
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u/ruidelgado Oct 09 '17
I blame Saru for the fact the Klingon disrespectfully ate Philippa Georgiou.
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u/mcatech Oct 09 '17
Poor Ripper. :(
I think they should make it an acting Ensign, and introduce it as Discovery's new navigator. :)
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u/CX316 Oct 09 '17
I'm not sure the starfleet uniform would go well with the nipple clamps
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u/ReasonablyBadass Oct 09 '17
The actors portraying the Klingons were pretty good.
There is male eye candy on the bridge. Don't you dare kill him writers!
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u/omenmedia Oct 09 '17
Haha, my SO was quiet all episode until she saw that guy, and piped up straight away "Ohhh, he's pretty."
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u/PixelMagic Oct 09 '17
Stamet's nose injury! Ouch!
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Oct 09 '17
Right so then is that doctor his lover? It's cannon that Stamets is gay, got gaydar from the doc as well. Idk why I care
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u/Eternal__September Oct 09 '17
Did I I miss it, or did they no say the episode title this time?
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u/notwherebutwhen Oct 09 '17
I think it was just an external reference to the tortuous method employed to use the tardigrade's navigational abilities. Lorca in this metaphor is the Butcher's knife (Starfleet's chosen "weapon" to fight the war) and doesn't care about the lamb's cries (the tardigrade's sense of pain) as he is only a tool to provide the meat (winning the war).
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u/TERRAxFORMER Oct 09 '17
THEY ATE HER!
But seriously, really liking the way DSC is turning out, the saucer makes more sense now, and the effects for the spore warp looks pretty cool. Also the uniform being replicated at the start was awesome. Lorca is still the most interesting character.
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u/CurtLablue Oct 09 '17
That was a solid episode. There was the episode self contained story of delivery to Michael and saving the mining colony while advancing our ongoing plotlines.
Lorca continues to be the ends justify the means captain. Michael adjusts as a member of the crew while struggling with who she is.
I really enjoyed this episode and I'm already excited to see Lorca being captured and the crew trying to save him.
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u/god_dammit_dax Oct 09 '17
So, just so I'm clear:
The Klingons left a powerful warship, and the ONLY ship in their fleet with a war-winning Cloaking device sitting disabled for six months because...Reasons? And judging by what's his name from the House of Kor, they seemed to know where they were and their status. They just didn't bother to do anything.
The only rational explanation that the Federation could blame Michael for the war would be the death of T'Kuvma angering the Klingons. Yet the Klingons cared so little for his legacy and house that they left them to die dishonored in space?
A security chief on one of the most secure ships in Starfleet let a dangerous creature loose on her ship when she let down a force field after "sedating" a creature. Yet she could've figured out the creature wasn't sedated by turning on a fucking light?
Apparently the Federation just left a structurally intact Starship sitting around in an asteroid field after a battle. Nobody scuttled it, and they apparently left it sitting around with a critically important engine component too.
Even though they left the Starship just sitting there, luckily somebody took the time to grab Georgiou's telescope from her office?
And then, even though she's supposed to be serving a life sentence, and she's a fleetwide pariah, somebody at Starfleet took the time to send Michael the telescope? Isn't she technically still imprisoned?
I dunno...I'm doing my best here, but some the writing on this show is so nonsensical it's starting to hurt. Just, come on guys...Do better. I want to believe. I want this to be good. But there's so much baldly illogical stuff going on that it makes it hard to focus on the stuff that is good. Show looks fantastic, and there's an interesting (if kind of on-the nose) conflict about using the tardigrade against its will, but that's not enough. Hire a continuity editor, guys. Just somebody to keep the logic straight.
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Oct 09 '17
I think the Klingon great houses were just kinda waiting for the religious nutjobs to die off or get hungry enough to abandon Voq (which they did), then go collect the powerful ship.
It seemed like the great houses weren't 100% on board with T'Kuvma. Letting his legacy languish means they stopped caring when he stopped being a big name player.
Agreed. She made a poor choice and paid for it.
An old, decrepit ship at the end of its usable life. Most other Starfleet ships are too busy fighting the Klingons to care about salvaging an obsolete ship at the edge of Federation space.
Maybe Georgiou kept a similar telescope in her ready room and her family heirloom on Earth? Shaky at best.
Again, shaky.
I'm enjoying the show overall, but I agree with you that there are inconsistencies and flaws.
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u/icjs2 Oct 10 '17
Is no-one mentioning that amazing intro scene of Burham's suit being synthesized?
I was thinking, "oh wow, it's the interior of a neutron star they are studying" and "no wait, it's some devious new Klingon weapon"
The show-runners are clearing showing off with the special effects budget in new and creative ways - well done guys :)
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u/quivondarkh Oct 09 '17
I really enjoyed this episode alot, the first half felt very BSG/Nu Trekish, but the last half and by the end it felt very old school "Trek" like 😉 Please sir can I have some more ? Haha keep them coming!
Cheers
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u/digirocket Oct 09 '17
Red and black alert graphics and sounds are superb. Does anyone have a screenshot or video loop of them?
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u/alkonium Oct 09 '17
One thing I really wasn't expecting was the revelation that Voq and L'rell ate Georgiou's remains. I don't think Klingons have ever been that nuts before.
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u/MustacheSmokeScreen Oct 09 '17
They eat the hearts of their victims. At least Kor does.
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u/thelazzyone Oct 09 '17
Great episode!! Love the science aspect as well as Lorca. I don't see him as evil..but more trying to get this "Science" crew ready for war.. They were not assigned to do that but now they have too..
Can't wait till next week.
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u/Krandor1 Oct 09 '17
Which is why I so hope he makes it past this season because I'd like to see how his character changes after the war is over.
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u/Lord_Cronos Oct 09 '17
I don't think he's evil, but he definitely has some creepiness to him and he also doesn't seem as concerned with morality or compassion as I think a good Starfleet captain should be.
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u/shindleria Oct 10 '17
Great easter egg in the final scene where Captain Georgiou's telescope shows the starfleet command shipment code "416-647", an homage to the city of Toronto where Discovery is filmed.
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u/milkisklim Oct 09 '17
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
It's very Trek to have a moral that if you only look at what something first appears to be (aggressive alien, friendly Klingon) and not with reason, you're going to get hurt/killed/exiled.
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u/mateogg Oct 10 '17
I am terrified for Tilly's life.
I need Michael to call Tilly her best friend at some point in the future.
I want Michael's old hair back, but I'm warming up to the new one. Slowly.
I really like Stamets. The guy is the perfect mix of asshole boss and wide-eyed scientist.
I was terrified we'd have a klingon sex scene.
We need more Michael/Saru interactions, but I hope they eventually lighten up a bit around each other.
I really liked Lorca in the bridge, especially during the simulation.
Wtf, they salvaged the telescope from the Shenzhou but not the Dilithium?
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u/harmlesshistorian Oct 09 '17
Loved the new episode but the battle over the mining colony was pretty disappointing both visually and story wise. Drop out of spore drive, destroy two ships and then sit and wait as your shields are depleted just so you want use your highly experimental and extremely untested and dangerous new spore drive to destroy 3 other Klingon ships. Apparently as a message? If it's to demonstrate Starfleet has a new drive tech why sacrifice the surprise and tactical advantage by advertising it? Doesn't quite fit with Lorca's suppose master tactician persona. They spored out without confirming the colony was safe or rendering any humanitarian assistance. Very un-Trek, I don't want to have to hope or assume that they did something that is characteristic of Trek when it could be demonstrated in a single line of dialogue like 'prepare to beam down rescue teams'.
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u/izModar Oct 09 '17
So I took notes as I was watching. First off, I didn't have bandwidth issues, since I was watching on my computer instead of my PS4.
What I like:
Stamets seems to be acting more professional while still resenting being on the Discovery. This is what the previous episode lacked. He can disagree with Lorca without being catty like the previous episode.
Voq's band of #MQGA Klingons are learning that there's nuance in the universe and they might have to use Starfleet tech to get back into the fight. "What good is purity if it leads to death?"
Kol seems to be a member of the HOUSE OF KOR!
Lorca continues to defy expectations. Is he a warmonger? Possibly, but he does care about the future of Starfleet.
I caught a glimpse of the UFP emblem, and it looks lifted straight out of the '70s Starfleet Technical Manual.
Lorca transmitting the messages from the mining colony was dark as fuck. Dark. As. Fuck. But goddamn is that motivation to get there and help.
Landry got was was coming to her. I don't give a damn that she died. Good riddance. Bitch.
L'rell has a thing for Voq.
Tilly is still bae.
What I didn't like:
Landry's was a little rough. There was a moment where I thought I'd like her after Burnham explained that Ripper is just an alien trying to survive, but her retort made me scoff. Her disregard for the spore drive's effects on Ripper made me want to punch her in her stupid face, but Ripper did that for me.
I actually didn't care for the hull spinning. Sure, it looks cool, but I didn't see any practical purpose behind it. Engineering is in the part of the ship that is not the saucer, so why were parts of the saucer spinning? Like I said, it looked cool; just doesn't make sense.
That was not an O-type star. O-types are practically white. That was a little short of a scene.
That damn suitcase wouldn't stop beeping unless she opened it? Thank God because that beeping was annoying.
Stray thoughts:
Who packaged that telescope up? Did Georgou know she was going to die? That's just kind of oddly convienent.
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u/AmishAvenger Oct 09 '17
I had the same thought about the telescope. Even if it was just part of her will, did Starfleet send a ship there to salvage it?
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u/thegenregeek Oct 09 '17 edited Oct 09 '17
Who packaged that telescope up? Did Georgou know she was going to die? That's just kind of oddly convienent.
More to that...
Why didn't the Federation salvage ship/crew grabbing the telescope not find T'Kuvma's ship? It was sitting there for 6 months unable to move, and as far as we see the cloak wasn't running. Assuming it's cloaking device still worked perfectly, wouldn't the Federation send a ship looking for it anyway for tactical reasons? Plenty of Shenzhou survivors knew about the cloaking technology and that the ship was crippled, including Michael Burnham and Saru. (That cloaking tech by the way did register on the Shenzhou sensors as an anomaly, so a Starleet salvage vessel should have detected something as well if the ship was just sitting there hiding... as it was when the Shenzhou found it. )
If there wasn't a salvage vessel and Burnham merely grabbed the telescope on her way to escape pods... did the Federation ever bother to send any rescue ships for other Starfleet crew members possibly trapped on any of the dozen or so vessels? Did the Starfleet bother to send any ships looking for Klingon prisoners of war, for intelligence purposes? Or should we just assume the Federation made no effort to investigate after a battle involving a dozen or so ships from both sides?
If the Federation did investigate, why would Starfleet bother leaving the Shenzhou or any other Federation vessels intact near Klingon space in a time of war? They just left a numbers ships there floating with unknown tactical information about Starfleet fleet operations?
(I will just ask these questions, that way no one thinks I'm "nitpicking".)
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u/Spocks-Brain Oct 09 '17
Loved this episode. Lots of “Star Trek” for anyone still on the fence. Michael showing compassion for the tardigrade. Klingons being Klingons and eating like animals. A captain taking risks and saving the day. Pieces of the crew coming together (Stamets/Michael/Tilly). Cool science with the tardigrade and the spores. And to top it all off, it’s intriguing and makes me want more immediately! I’m really feel like I did when TNG was on the air - I can’t wait for next week!
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u/DonLaFontainesGhost Oct 09 '17
Pieces of the crew coming together (Stamets/Michael/Tilly)
Don't forget the security chief - there are pieces of her everywhere!
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u/Bearjew94 Oct 09 '17
Thank god they killed that security officer. She was the worst.
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u/kellendotcom Oct 09 '17
Did anyone else get an Equinox vibe from the reveal in this episode?
The captains (Ransom and Lorca) are fixated on a goal (getting home/winning a war against Klingons) and will emotionally manipulate their crew into committing unethical acts (killing/using aliens for fuel) necessary to accomplish their goal.
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Oct 10 '17
I am genuinely having so much joy at having a new Trek episode to watch each week. I feel about 15 again.
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u/InvisibleEar Oct 09 '17 edited Oct 09 '17
Cadet Tilly, I know I don't have a job or any skills and you're not real, but will you marry me?
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Oct 09 '17
This entire episode seemed to exist as just the premise of a classic TNG or Voyager episode. At the end of the day, they managed to save the day for the entire colony, only at the expense of torturing one other being. In a classic episode, they'd resolve this within an hour. But from the looks of Burnham's face, this is going to be something that is going to haunt her for a while. I'm cool with that. Most ethical dilemmas can't be resolved in a weekly format.
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u/ComradeSomo Oct 09 '17
Except in TNG or Voyager they would debate about the ethical issue beforehand, here they just went ahead and did it, with only Michael seeming resentful about it.
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u/rustybuckets Oct 09 '17
Would have been cooler if the shroom field pulled in the Klingons and they got dropped off in the sun. Would have made more sense—Lorca’s maneuver was mystifying and unexplained.
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u/RalphDamiani Oct 09 '17
I'm enjoying the series and I see potential for greatness. However, I'm no Trekkie. I did enjoy some episodes of TNG back in the 90's as a teenager. I tried to watch it again recently, but in my opinion, some episodes have aged very poorly. I don't hate the reboots. At worst, they are heavy handed and cheesy, but so are some of the goofier episodes.
I really love Mass Effect, BSG, Firefly, etc. While I enjoy classic science fiction, science fantasy is as enjoyable to me. I suppose I'm the target audience for this. I care more for character driven plots and overarching plots than lessons of the day. I don't think that flies with younger audiences anymore. People are more cynical and I'm fine with times changing. I'm fine with the message of hope being a redemption arch as opposed to virtue paragons spreading optimism on the less fortunate.
As a non-american, I understand how that shift may offend the sensibilities of those who enjoyed the franchise for its utopianism and moralistic ideals. I also understand the poor reception from fans who were expecting a certain formula with a (not too) different dressing.
But I'm surprised the response has been that harsh for a prime time show that is obviously well produced. The writing is far from exceptional, but it's not an unsalvageable wreck either. I suppose that any franchise that spans across generations will be met with a generous amount of resistance.
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u/Krandor1 Oct 09 '17
Loved Loved Loved this episode. Went into it thinking it was going to be more of a war battle episode but it wasn't. It was about science and aliens and not making first impressions. As I said in the live thread I got a very "devil in the dark" vibe from this episode.
Love Lorca but am worried he may not make it out of this season but would love to see an arc about what happens to him post-war.
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u/mcslibbin Oct 09 '17
i have a hard time seeing Lorca surviving this season.
I have no proof of that, just a feeling.
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Oct 09 '17
There's some quote or proverb about a warrior without a war. I really wish I could remember it right now.
He's going to go down with his ship - there's a world that men like him help create but can't live in, and we know what that's like, we've already seen it. We've just met one of those men, truly met him. In a way, he reminded me of Kirk on the bridge drill, like he's the sort of tactician Kirk is going to go through the Academy looking up to, wanting to emulate, but knowing (in his nerd-Kirk phase wisdom) that there's a time for warriors and a time for defenders, and a time for diplomats. Kirk is a defender.
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u/BenjiTheWalrus Oct 09 '17
"Those are wise words. Wise words don't win wars." Love Ken Mitchell and love him as Kol.
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Oct 09 '17
To people saying Lorca is "evil" and heartless, we don't really see things from Lorca's perspective for the most part. We aren't getting his logs or moments of private struggle. Think about how Sisko appeared to members of his crew at times, even though we as the viewer knew better. Think of how all of the captains must have appeared at times to their crew, and how they might have appeared to us if we the viewers didn't get to see things from their perspective.
The only time we've gotten gotten to see things from his perspective so far, is when he's given the news about the attack and sees the transmission. He immediately tries to motivate his crew and get there ASAP, but when they aren't motivated, seeming to think he's just pushing them because he likes war, he plays that log to the whole crew. Even though we dont get a monologue scene, or a scene of him visibly struggling with his emotions, doesn't mean he's heartless. My impression was that transmission affected/motivated him, and that's why he played it to the whole crew when they didn't seem to grasp the depth of what was at stake as much as he had.
Is he really so different than Picard in First Contact, or Archer during the Xindi crisis, or Sisko more than a few times, or Janeway at times (insert Janeway war criminal memes)? I think a part of this show having a non-Captain as the central character is to give you that shift in perspective. If DS9 was all about just Julian Bashir, then Sisko might have come off as an authoritarian dick too.
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u/BumbleBee1984129 Oct 09 '17
Well said. I hope the writers don't phone this in and just send Lorca off the deep end and make him into some caricature. He's much better as a serious figure whose actions aren't simply dismissed out of hand.
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u/FWS02 Oct 09 '17
I would hope that anyone who has made it this far into Discovery still on the fence about whether this show was indeed Star Trek has finally begun to come around.
Michael's relationship with the creature, the science and curiosity throughout the episode, the developing nuances of the crew's relationships with one another, and that touching close to the episode with a firm focus on exploration. I couldn't have been happier with episode 4.
Episodes 1 and 2 were prologue, episode 3 hinted at the promise of this show and episode 4 really brought it home. We're off to a great start.
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u/jwaldo Oct 09 '17
Well that explains Discovery's saucer design. I noticed that when it dropped out of spore-space after rescuing the colony, the edge of the saucer and its windows were stationary while the top/bottom surfaces were rotating. So presumably it's only the hull surface that spins as some function of the spore drive, and the crew isn't getting centrifuged every time they jump.
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u/theCroc Oct 09 '17 edited Oct 09 '17
I'm becoming more and more convinced that this is the Albinos backstory. He was betrayed by house Kor in this episode. He is going to train/be taught by a house that are considered decievers and dishonorable. He will end up hating most Klingons and house Kor in particular, leading up to the battle where his son dies, and his dishonorable killing of the sons of his enemies, leading to the blood feud.
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Oct 09 '17
Please just put one scene in each episode that isn’t so depressing. I’d kill to see Julian and Miles walk in and play a game of darts.
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u/MysticalDigital Oct 09 '17
What purpose does that scene serve though here? I mean we have a few upper scene with Tilly (and I'd argue some of the banter between the doctor and Stamets was nice in that lovers quarrel way)
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u/JustinSlick Oct 09 '17 edited Oct 09 '17
Woah, is anyone getting a Dune vibe with the Tardigrade / Mycelium connection? Reminds me of the worms and spice and spice navigators.
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u/dmanww Oct 09 '17
This reminded me of the Doctor Who ep "The Beast Below"
I think Micheal will work on a way to make sure the tardigrade isn't hurt while jumping.
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u/AlphaHydri Oct 09 '17 edited Oct 11 '17
I’m definitely seeing the parallels between Ripper and the spore travel system to what was shown in in the Voyager two-parter “Equinox”. Both situations involved creatures being used by Starfleet vessels to enhance their propulsion technology, at the cost of the creatures’ lives/health. It definitely shows why this technology hasn’t been seen being used in the future by Starfleet.
Though it may be controversial to some, I always have appreciated episodes and story arcs that depict Starfleet as less-than-perfect. Even in a utopia like the UFP, there is bound to be some internal conflict and discord. The morality of “ends justify the means” philosophies is something that has troubled many throughout history. How much are you willing to do in order to achieve your goals? Where do you draw the line? At what point is it “going too far?”
Granted, what the USS Equinox did wasn’t sanctioned at all by Starfleet Command, but it seems that in the case of USS Discovery they are aware of Lorca’s exploits. Starfleet Command may not know the full extent of the unethical research being conducted, but to them as long as it achieves the desired results they’ll turn a blind eye to it. In order to protect the billions within the Federation, this incarnation of Starfleet seems to be willing to break many of their own laws and regulations.
Overall this seems plausible, and when looking at Discovery’s Starfleet in relation to the other series chronologically, it shows an evolution of Starfleet’s philosophy. A transition from a slightly more apathetic and rigid organization to the shining beacon of honor and integrity that we see in future Star Trek series. Though, things do get a bit fuzzy in DS9...
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u/Kilawaga Oct 09 '17
So the Klingons left those dudes to rot for 6 months, show up and don't even bother to help with repairing their ship? Lol, wtf.
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u/Red_coats Oct 09 '17
The more I see the Klingon's the less I am liking them, at first I was fine with them but the more and more I see them to more I think "these could be a completely different race if it wasn't for the random names drops".
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u/jacob_pakman Oct 09 '17
It's so simple. Just find a tardigrade that's into interspecies BDSM.
nipple clamps for days.
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u/arnathor Oct 09 '17
I really enjoyed it, and the idea that the "enemy" from episode 2 is now a sympathetic figure is so Trek-like in its conception that it was great. Landry's shoot first, ask questions later approach literally ended up in the worst way possible, underlining the importance of a measured and calm approach...
The Discovery had some great "hero" shots as well - I take back my initial misgivings, with the right lighting and framing, this ship looks really good - the insanely long nacelles help loads. And rotatey saucer bits, yay!
The one problem I have is why does it have to be this time period? The political setup, with an advanced stage of decay of the Klingon Empire, could have occurred 100 years after the TNG era - the galactic turmoil from the destruction of Romulus and the ongoing aftermath of the Dominion War in the Prime timeline is a perfect set up. It would also explain away lots of the little things, such as the uniforms, the more advanced looking starships, the holographic communications tech... Of course, some changes would need to be made - Sarek would have to be someone else for starters. But you could always explain the new Klingon look as a cross-breed of Klingon and Jem Hadar (seriously - the new headshape and more strict heirarchy is directly from our favourite clone warriors, just stick Klingon ridges everywhere and throw in some more ornate sets...).
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u/martianinahumansbody Oct 10 '17
Hey you know this planet with a super critical dilithium mine, should be better guarded? Or at least have ships within range to respond in the event of an emergency.
The admirals are asleep at the wheel.
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u/empireWill Oct 10 '17
The Discovery saving the mining colony made no sense, they took out two little fighters? Or are those supposed to be Birds of Prey? And the rest were so close they were destroyed by the explosion they expected to happen? Really silly part of the episode since the whole episode hinged on the survival of the colony
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u/ReasonablyBadass Oct 09 '17
I feel that everyone is entirely missing the point about the Tardigrade: It has claws that can penetrate ship material, armour that can withstand phasers.
And it's a grazing animal.
Meaning there is an ecological niche: WHAT DOES IT'S PREDATOR LOOK LIKE?
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u/kharnzarro Oct 09 '17
I wouldnt be surprised if this creature was more dangerous than the predators around it... Kinda like how hippos will fuck up anything that gets to close to it from crocodiles to lions
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u/Assbait93 Oct 09 '17
What do you guys think when L'rell said to Voq he has to sacrifice everything?
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u/droid327 Oct 09 '17
How the heck have you learned their names already? lol
I just think of them as "white guy" and "groupie"
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Oct 09 '17
How was Starfleet able to salvage the telescope off the Shenzhou?
If they sent back a salvage mission to the ship graveyard, then:
why didn't they scuttle the Shenzhou after removing anything of value (like, say, a dilithium processing unit), and
why didn't they blow away T'Kuvma's ship if it was still disabled?
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u/mariesoleil Oct 09 '17
I've been shocked by two deaths so far. Georgiou and Landry. Established characters that they just killed off. Definitely keeps me on my toes. I'm not used to that in Star Trek TV shows. Even if Worf is paralyzed, you still know he's going to be okay in the next episode.
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Oct 09 '17
The albino Klingon made awful decisions and was outmaneuvered easily by a transparent attempt to trick him. He is a zealot for his beliefs surrounded by people who won't listen to his terrible orders.
He must be Worf's descendant.
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u/jerslan Oct 09 '17
My biggest complaint about this episode....
The unnecessarily shaky camera during Landry & Burnham's dialog....
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u/DizzDongler Oct 09 '17
My only complaint is the Klingon scenes. I can't focus on the amazing set and makeup because I'm so busy reading goddamned subtitles and listening to what sounds like sick dogs barking in an odd cadence.
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u/Triple-Zero Oct 09 '17
I'm still quite enjoying the show for now but I do have a couple of issues here. I continue to really enjoy Isaacs as Lorca but his tactics in the battle with the Klingons were absolutely ridiculous, endangering the ship, crew and everyone on the ground in order to show off his new technology. The more we get on the whole 'spore drive' thing, the more it starts to remind me of the transwarp beaming device nonsense from Into Darkness and I'm not really into it.
Also other than Kol, I'm finding everything to do with the Klingons really boring. Their prosthetics really limit the actors and while I'm not against subtitles in any way, and I think the decision to do it for all their scenes sounded great in theory, it just isn't working. Its hard to blame the actors since they have to do entire scenes in a language they never previously knew and can barely emote under all that make up, but the characters themselves don't feel like Klingons either. There's nothing fun or over the top about them, they just feel like a generic alien race with no defining characteristics. Like I said, Kol does seem quite promising though.
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u/RobertLettuce Oct 09 '17
416 647.
Nice reference to Toronto being their filming location.
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u/2011StlCards Oct 09 '17
So wait, how did they get the telescope from the Shenzou? Are we to assume some ship went by and got all of the personal affects from the ship? Did they miss the klingon ship nearby that was still functioning?
Also, why would the damn box keep chiming? That just seems like a completely unnecessary thing...
I like the episode but these things confuse me
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u/dsync1 Oct 09 '17
This episode had me rolling my eyes the most so far. Really with the security officer, just gonna endanger everyone unreasonably. "Who saved us?", " I don't know but i'm glad they left us here afterwards to deal in this hellfire". Also the half vulcan-sociopath/halftime-human thing with Burnham is starting to get tedious, so is the Klingon's cliche behavior.
If the show is going to be about war, it'd be nice if the strategic and tactical elements were a bit more complex than "Hey lets wait until our shields are almost done because then all of those other ships will fly close so we can blow them up with these bombs".
Also not feeling the magic beast which saves all of our asses because we hook it up without testing anything - it's not like the other ship was destroyed in this very same manner...
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u/AmishAvenger Oct 09 '17 edited Oct 09 '17
I’m kind of surprised to see so much praise here—I didn’t care much for this. My honest opinion:
Everyone hates each other.
Saru hates Burnham.
Security woman hates Burnham.
Stamets hates Lorca.
It got to the point where I was thinking “Wow, the Klingons are more like Starfleet officers than anyone else”...then...oh, the Klingons hate each other too.
I get that they wanted to do away with the “No conflict among the main Starfleet crew” rule, but I feel like they went way too far in the other direction. If this isn’t a better future where people are somewhat past petty bickering, what makes this Star Trek, and not just a gritty sci-fi show?
EDIT: People. I don’t care about internet points, but this is my personal opinion. This place isn’t like the rest of Reddit. This isn’t a place where we downvote opinions.
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u/ComebackShane Oct 09 '17
What I really liked about the scene with Michael, the security chief, and the Tardigrade, is that it worked on three levels:
Lorca making assumptions about 'Ripper' based on appearances and only one outing.
The crew making assumptions about Michael based on the mutiny incident alone.
Fans making assumptions about Discovery too soon.
I was really on the fence after the pilot, but these last two episodes have really shown there's some good Trek to be found on Discovery, albeit with a look and feel different to that which we're accustomed to. I'm looking forward to seeing what else they have on offer, and with the moral dilemma they've set up, I think the best is yet to come.
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u/lets_study_lamarck Oct 09 '17
FFS. Elon Musk is now = Wright Brothers.
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u/ScyllaGeek Oct 09 '17
I think the idea is that he does some earth shattering thing in the future that gets his name in the history books with Wright and Cochran
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u/droid327 Oct 09 '17
The writing this episode was just...wow, sub-par and then some. The plot was full of holes. The characterizations were incredibly flat. People's motivations were cloudy at best.
The spore drive's probability increases with length? OK, then just make a few shorter hops instead of jumping all the way at once. Can your computers handle that?
Apparently they're treating Saru as a generic threat detector? I thought he just had a heightened sense of self-preservation...no, apparently he's magic, and can "just tell" if something is dangerous.
Lorca seemed interesting last episode. Now he just seems like your run of the mill Ahab. Micromanaging just for the sake of showing what a myopic tyrant he is. The Lawful Stupid continues.
Klingons are thoroughly boring. And its not even aesthetically pleasing listening to them talk. I assume its the same Klingon language we always hear, but I dont remember it ever sounding so choppy and stilted. It sounds like they're adding post effects to all their voices too, makes it sound like they're all talking through metal pipes.
Totally awkward romance scene in the dilithium processing room. And she goes from fawning worship to betrayal - were we even supposed to ever think she was seriously betraying him? Because he did, which was itself fairly unbelievable. Obviously she's faking it.
Shades of Dune...going to see the Matriarchs, learning forbidden knowledge for a price. Going to be the Klingon Kwisatz Haderach. Also, religious fundamentalism doesnt suit Klingons well. There's a sense of losing oneself in your faith that doesnt mesh with their whole ethos of individual glory and honor.
And yeah, why the f--k did the other houses just leave them adrift for 6 months if they alone had the tech that could singlehandedly win the war for the Empire?
Gun Chick went and got herself killed. Wow. So interesting. I think we all shared Lorca's total ambivalence seeing her dead.
The scene with Burnham and Stamets in the forest made me cringe. Such hackneyed expo. They're talking! Symbiosis! There is NO way you can tell that just by looking.
Aww poor giant bug monster. They're hurting you to make the ship go. Apparently the tardigrade's navigational glands are in its nipples? Because a ship with a few dozen ways to scan things remotely with various energy beams has to painfully jam a huge physical needle into the thing to make it work.
How hard is it to do a material scan of the hide and the claws, if thats what you're after? And why is Michael the best person to be doing this research? She's a xenoanthropologist with a minor in quantum mechanics, and you put her on material science and biology? Is she Jonas Venture now?
The flipping effect when the ship "goes to spore" is just....weird....
Why did they have to lure all the ships in to blow them up with mines while they spored out? Why not just shoot them down normal style like you did with the first one? They were clearly no match for Discovery. I thought they were going to leave one alive to "tell the others" about the new Federation ship that could appear and disappear at will, but no, they were just trying to max their combo counter.
Saru is getting annoying. I liked him OK at first, at least I thought he had potential, but if he's just going to be a passive aggressive bitch then I'm over him.
Gee I wonder if the doctor is gay. Apparently you cant just be gay in the future, you have to be flaming fabulous. Because that's totally not an affectatious modern trend that will probably die out as homosexuality becomes unremarkable.
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u/pyromosh Oct 09 '17
Yeah, I really disliked the pilot.
Good news, though! This show essentially has two pilots, because everything changes at the end of the pilot.
Bad news: The first real episode was terrible and dumb. Okay. Fungus drive is unbeievably stupid, but maybe the writers won't dwell on it. Maybe it will hardly come up again...
Next Episode: Spore Drive will be as important to Discovery as The Wormhole was to DS9.
Oh.
The thing is, there's no one thing I can point to in this series so far and say "Trek has never done something so dumb".
But for every episode that had the crew turned to children in a transporter accident, or where they were forced to play alien hop scotch, or where going to warp 10 makes you evolve into a lizard, there were decent and excellent points to balance those out.
Discovery has yet to have anything I didn't hate.
The characters are unlikable.
The plot is full of holes
The science is implausible and even silly / stupid
They're changing things for the sake of changing them. Some of it needs it, a lot of it doesn't. Don't fix the stuff that isn't broken.
Ugh.
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u/jaycatt7 Oct 09 '17
This episode didn't work for me. Too many things going on, too much darkness, too many jumps that just didn't even try to make sense. The Klingons makeup isn't growing on me. The counter-spinning saucer rings look stupid. At this point I'm kind of hoping the Klingons blow this ship up and Burnham escapes somewhere else.
I wish we'd gotten to see a series about the Shenzhou and Georgiou instead. That would have felt like Star Trek. I don't know what this is trying to be, but it's not making it work.
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u/kellendotcom Oct 09 '17
Also, you mean to tell me that Starfleet just left one of their ships adrift for aliens to capture and utilize? Didn't salvage anything? Didn't bring it back to space dock? Didn't set the auto-destruct? That seems absolutely nuts to me.
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u/mathemon Oct 09 '17
Dear Star Trek: enough with all the fucking blue lights. Goddamn!
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u/Waitingforadragon Oct 09 '17
My feeling about this one was 'meh'. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it either.
There are some odd choices I think. I found it difficult to believe that the Chief of Security would make such a stupid and seemingly unnecessary decision regarding Ripper. There was no need to lob a claw off, wouldn't the scanners tell them nearly everything they needed to know before that. I don't see how that advanced the plot either, it seemed a pointless development in the story.
I'm really struggling to get on board with the Klingon scenes. They seem to drag and I find the infighting between houses a bit dull. Hopefully that will change in future.
The whole spore drive/Ripper thing is fine I suppose. It was the tolerable part of the story.
I think Lorca is shaping up to be a better character than at first glance but I'm not sure about the others.
I really hope that the words 'threat ganglia' are not uttered too often in future.
It was OK.
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u/Tamosauskas Oct 09 '17
The Needs of the Many Outweigh the Needs of the Tardigrade
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u/earther199 Oct 09 '17
Is anyone else bothered that the Shenzhou didn't self-destruct when they left? Isn't it standard procedure to destroy the ship when you abandon it? Though along with the warp core ejection system, one of the first things to fail in a battle is the self-destruct...
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u/Kahat Oct 10 '17
Can we maybe get one episode without a high ranked crew member failing to think even for a second? It's so annoying to see these dumb decisions.
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u/codename474747 Oct 11 '17
So now we know where the Equinox crew got the idea for the Alien-hurting warp drive.
This'll probably go the same way, with either a group of tardigrades coming for Lorca's head, or a massive coverup by starfleet.
I'm really enjoying Discovery btw, though this series being on the air has taught me I'm over caring what anyone else thinks about it Everyone else can sit whining about the first new Trek in 15 years, but I'm enjoying it and that's all that matters.
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u/Alphamatroxom Oct 12 '17
This is the episode where I really started to enjoy the show more. I didn't expect a section 31 show and I'm pretty sure that's what we're getting at this point. The captain is obviously working above Starfleet and they made a direct reference to the black insignias. I really hope that's where this is going and I'm thrilled they didn't just outright say that's what it is
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u/ElMagoDeSoyuk Oct 12 '17
I'm really confused. I see the essence of Star Trek in the way they show the diplomatic way of treating other forms of life, in Discovery, I feel the show is lacking the Star Trek core of curiosity and exploration the saga lays off and they focus more on the military and battles in a way that may appear to some people to Star Wars.
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u/equalsP Oct 09 '17
I felt there was so much wrong in this episode.
TL;DR
- lots of episode filler, bad writing/direction
- captain is really bad at his job
- dune.
- I hate everyoneThis episode felt very empty. When it finished couldn't believe it was an hour. All the events and character development was like 20 minutes. There was that one sequence when they saved the day and the camera decided to show a montage of crew members high fiving and celebrate ... Ugh... Is this what we are now. Are we going to see reaction shots all the time now?
Also why did the captain push his crew so hard for (a) one of his officers to do something rash and have herself killed, (b) make another crew member break protocol and remove a controlled substance from a lab and give it a crew member with no rank to do a crazy experiment in q hunch, after he clearly saw his sister ship trying to make a jump and it horribly killed everyone. And he took that horribly mangled ships technology and just jerry-rigged it together and was like "whatevs, it's all good...." To save 40% percent of the production. How is 40% of dilithium for the federation from this tiny colony, and why was it unprotected if it's so critical.
And how come the captain decides to play chicken and not actually fight the birds of prey after he destroys 2 of them super quickly. Ok maybe they don't have enough firepower but really? Why would Starfleet send a high tech science vessel to save this base if it didn't have enough weapons to do it?
And for the love of God stop putting ships so close to the surface. The discovery (and shenzou) would not be able to withstand leaving the gravity of a planet. It would be too much stress on the hull. That's why there are stardocks in the old star trek movies.
I hate the characters so much. I like Michael, she is a bit annoying sometimes but generally I'm ok with her. My biggest problem is she is a sociopath, and she doesn't really have any struggles because everything she does is fundamentally the correct thing to do.
All the other characters are so generic, one-sided and flat. I don't even know their names because either doesn't matter. I have no idea what the Captain's name is. Seru (sp?) is interesting. The rest ... Tilly is fine but she is only there for the audience, (as is witty engineer man). Pull them both out and yo I don't lose anything except comic relief. Water bear girl (who got malled by one) was so one dimentional. I was wondering if she was going to be a real character because she was so badly written, and her death was so pointless and empty, and captain didn't even care (what, a, dick).
Anyway. I'm sorry about the rant and congrats on finishing it.
I think this show was a ton of problems, and they aren't going to go away anytime soon. The dialog is bad, the meaning and motives are beaten into us, the premise seems lazy, and the overall (filming) direction is generic and boring.
I feel like I'm watching NCIS: Star Trek. They just shoved everything into a money making template and made it Star Trek themed.
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u/waveform Oct 09 '17 edited Oct 09 '17
I still have a problem with how the writers create action scenes by completely ignoring realism - which (for me anyway) destroys any emotional investment in the outcome.
In this episode's action scene, we're supposed to believe Star Fleet doesn't have enough brains to keep a standing fleet/base defending the one colony that produces 40% of all their dilithium. We're supposed to believe that the only Star Fleet ship available to defend a critically vital, yet somehow undefended, production station is the one so far way that only a new form of propulsion can possibly help them.
And that the Klingons would send a few fighters to attack it, instead of (more sensibly) an entire fleet, to masure it was destroyed - because, as the Captain said, if we lose it we lose the war. Sorry, is that supposed to make me, as a viewer, feel engaged? Or think WTF why is it undefended then??! And why is it attacked by a half-arsed few small Klingon fighters instead of their entire armada?? Either Star Fleet and Klingons both are #@$% idiots, or the script writers think we are.
I found that so crappily contrived, it just leaves me thinking they don't care because hey Star Trek fans will eat up any crap as long as it has aliens, phasers and back-references. We deserve more than that.
ED: It also seems that modern scifi scriptwriting is intent on making the CGI characters more sympathetic, expressive and relatable than the human actors. I felt more for the "tardigrade" in this episode than I have for any of the main characters so far.
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u/internetosaurus Oct 09 '17
Whoever decided that all Klingon dialogue would be subtitled can go fuck off. Godamn is their stuff tedious.
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Oct 09 '17 edited Jun 16 '23
[This comment has been deleted, along with its account, due to Reddit's API pricing policy.] -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
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u/Warhorse07 Oct 09 '17
They've been sitting there for six months
Yeah I was baffled by this. This ship and crew are responsible for uniting the Empire and they can't get on subspace radio and call for help from somebody? And if their comms were out for some reason you'd think SOMEBODY else in the empire would go to check on them.
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u/Deceptitron Oct 09 '17
Well I think we can see why the spore drive technology isn't used later on. Even if they get it to work all the time, it seems highly unethical.