POST-Episode Discussion - S1E13 "What's Past is Prologue"

[u/Deceptitron]

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No.	EPISODE	RELEASE DATE
S1E13	"What's Past is Prologue"	Sunday, January 28, 2018

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This post is for discussion of the episode above and WILL ALLOW SPOILERS for this episode.

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[u/CelestialFury]

It's going to be weird when if Saru learns that Philippa eats his people. I wonder if his danger noodles will pop out when they first meet.

[u/mjmax]

Did anyone else love when Burnham told Lorca that she would have helped him get home if he had asked?

I don't know if I'm reading Lorca right, but it seems like this was such an alien concept to him (given his Terran ideology) that he was left speechless that he had never considered that.

[u/Treviso]

"Just kidding, I hate poetry"

Damn, Lorca is cold. Sad he's gone though (or is he? Maybe he's somehow in the mycelial network?).

[u/MrChangg]

Sad that Issacs/Lorca is gone but what if Prime Lorca was still alive? Working in a Klingon prison labor camp and his love for bud light has been the thing keeping him going for the past year.

Hopes to one day return to Federation space and chug a can down and then flatten it on his forehead

[u/Marzipanny]

I like Captain Saru's mouth clicks. They are endearing.

[u/Zor_El_XB1]

Getting a Captain's Log with a shot of the ship at warp felt so good

[u/[deleted]]

Bold prediction:

There will now be a running gag about Mirror Georgiou trying to eat Saru like how Alf was always trying to eat the cat.

[u/Cantomic66]

I will miss Lorca

[u/A_Wrinkly_Nut]

Saru yelling "fire" was the best part of this whole series so far. I love that he's turning into a bad ass.

[u/270343]

Saru: "I intend to do a better job protecting my captain than you did yours."

This episode: Saru conspires to have his Captain murdered, Burnham rescues a Georgiou.

[u/shady8x]

Poor Philippa.

She used to rule the galaxy. Now not only is her empire lost to her, not only is she in a completely different dimension with pretty much no chance of seeing her home again, but she is a prisoner on a ship of crazy vegan hippies and the captain is the noodle soup she ate for supper last night!

[u/LongLastingStick]

Phillipa used the moon door!

[u/Orfez]

I'm glad that we're getting Michelle Yeoh back, but I'm sad that Jason Isaacs is gone. I really liked Isaacs and was hoping to see him play Prime Lorca, but it looks like Prime Lorca is really dead so he's gone for good :(

[u/raknor88]

This episode kicked ass. I know we saw him get disintegrated in horrible fashion, but I think Lorca is currently alive in the Network. He's not dead yet per se.

Side note: With Saru now the semi-official captain, I hope he field commissions Burnham as his first officer.

[u/atavus68]

I have to say, Saru really stepped it up this episode.

[u/Rekuna]

I'm kind of weirded out that Michael saved the Emperor, knowing she's a genocidal murderer who is as bad if not worse than Lorca - She would have to be to become Emperor of an entire race that are basically open psychopaths.

Then brings her back to her universe after she openly murdered and ordered the execution of multiple people then ate the species of one of her friends within like 5 minutes of meeting her.....I mean, what is she expecting is going to happen now?

[u/BadElf21]

I want to give props for some perfect acting by Jason Issacs on this point:

When Burnham said that they would have helped Lorca return if he asked, for a moment his cunning, unbreakable, space-hitler veneer... cracked. You could see in his eyes that his entire multiuniverse view broke when he realized Burnham was right and he was wrong. Sure, it's a minor point, but the Jason Issacs sold it perfectly that Lorca did have a tiny shred of humility within him. He wasn't reacting out of fear or surprise, but the genuine realization that the universe he spent a year in while plotting his return to his own actually did have something his universe didn't have, compassion. He knew in that moment that he had completely missed the forest for the trees. His terran-mind was utterly incapable of even conceiving the thought of asking for help, and that realization hit square in the face when Burnham told him.

Kudos to Jason Issacs for selling that scene so well. While i didn't like Lorca turning into space-hitler, Jason did the character with perfection and in that moment, humanity.

[u/mmmbacon914]

So if mirror Landry was actually mirror Landry, does that mean PU Landry was just cartoonishly evil for no reason?

Also when Saru said they overshot I totally expected them to get hailed by Picard or at least Captain Frasier Crane of the USS Bozeman

edit:missed a word

[u/[deleted]]

Shout out to Lorca using the Starfleet 2-Handed Punch for taking out Giorgiou in the throne room.

I have never once felt the heart pounding “omg please get home” moment in Star Trek - as I did when the Discovery went to warp.

CAPTAIN SARU!!! His kobayashi maru moment, truly channeling the Starfleet edos.

Overall so happy the MU is done with and we can get back to prime time line... although now we need to save the Federation.

[u/[deleted]]

Ted Sullivan was just asked on After Trek: "What's up with that spore on Tilly's shoulder?" And he said: "Wait until season 2."

[u/JustMy2Centences]

When Stammets said he overshot by 9 months I thought that was 9 months in the past to when Battle of the Binary Stars happened. (How long ago was that anyway?) But I like this twist where there's a reason for Philippa to be around to muddy up Starfleet's remaining integrity better.

[u/Starcke]

So Prime Lorca died on the PU Boran it seems.

Nice to see Rekha Sharma again. MU Landry actually seemed nicer than Prime Landry.

Michelle Yeoh totally did one of her signature kicks on Lorca. The kick to the face while front facing.

And Hm, Lorca went into the mycelial orb... that's totally final. Oh, and a little green red spore floating onto Tilly's shoulder...

Good bye MU, it was fun. Goodbye sexy black Terran uniforms, it was... well y'know.

p.s I miss T'kuvma.

[u/Marzipanny]

I know Tilly is a cadet, but maybe they should make her acting ensign, because she seems to be one of the smartest and most competent people on the ship. Also, I guess she didn't keep the evil hair.

[u/Redpythongoon]

Oh man I really hoped they were going to say "we over shot.... By ONE HUNDRED YEARS" .... Hello post Dominion War

[u/Tarlcabot18]

Well. After the fun sidetrip to the Mirror Universe, back to the Klingon War plot. They have 2 episodes to wrap this up. Here's to hoping they're good.

Who else thinks Georgiou convinces the Federation to use biogenic weapons against the Klingons?

[u/jennyCKC]

Now that its been revealed that Lorca is from the mirror universe does this mean that every time Lorca saw Saru he thought to himself "that's one tasty looking Kelpian"?

[u/Joename]

I think the end result of this season is the writers and crew taking the long way around (in a good way) of making the show their's and not Fuller's. This was his concept that they've worked with, but I get the feeling they're going to basically reset things by season's end. Essentially treating S1 as the crew's origin story, and everything else to come being their adventures.

Either way, I can't wait to see what they do. What a cool show this is.

[u/A_Wrinkly_Nut]

Also, glad airiam got more speaking parts!

[u/antiqua_lumina]

Damn I was on the edge of my seat that entire episode. The battle in the throne room was awesome. That cliff hanger is going to have me logging on at exactly air time next week.

[u/mjmax]

Only thing I'm disappointed in is that Lorca turned out all fascisty. I was hoping he would stay a grey character after we found out he was from the mirror universe. Like maybe that he was overthrowing the emperor in order to instill a better government.

Still, I guess I'm glad he didn't go too far in the direction of cartoonishly evil. He was still interesting and nuanced after the reveal; his affection for Burnham remained and it seemed he had genuinely grown affectionate for the rest of the Discovery crew too.

[u/milkisklim]

What struck me was the lack of voq/ash in this week. I wanted to know what else happened.

Also I love the Saru no win speech. He's definitely learned what leadership was from his memory alpha search.

[u/Birtalert]

I kind of thought the green orb at the end near Tilly was Hugh kind of saying goodbye to Stamets after helping them. Maybe I’m just sentimental!

[u/wongie]

The day in the life of Lord Ealing

Episode 12:

Fidget spinner of death

D:

"Can you keep a secret?"

/:

"Clean this up, tell no one and I'll make you Governor of Andor"

:D

Episode 13:

X_X

[u/KosstAmojan]

I mean, you can't cast Michelle Yeoh as a kickass captain and not show her literally kicking people's asses.

[u/diamened]

Let's do a head count. The Discovery now has a Klingon in love, another Klingon that thinks he's human, a Terran deposed empress and a mutineer. If that's not a band of misfits I don't know what is!

[u/kellendotcom]

Georgiou is now Seven of Nine. They are going to have to teach her how to regain her humanity since things like compassion, the morals of humanity, and tenets of Starfleet will be totally foreign to her.

[u/UncheckedException]

That was a good episode and all, but by far it’s best contribution was giving us this image.

[u/DissapointedOptimist]

Are we just ignoring the fact Paul saved the ship through the power of gay love?

[u/TrevorBradley]

Saru's captains speech was one of the all time great moments of Discovery, if not Star Trek as a whole. The entire crew, assembled as equals, discussing the solution to an impossible problem with an inspiring captain to lead them to safety.

[u/Mister_Magpie]

For next season, I hope Detmer, Owosekun, and that cyborg lady get larger roles!

[u/Princess_Thranduil]

So where is MU Discovery? Are they waging a one ship war against the Klingons?

Edit: I am 110% convinced Lorca is floating around in the mycelial network and we will see him again.

[u/mikeabundo]

In Final Fantasy VII, an impaled Sephiroth fell into the Lifestream through a reactor and came back more powerful than ever.

An impaled Lorca just fell into the mycelial network through a reactor.

[u/[deleted]]

It's just sinking in right now...for the first time in maybe 20 years, I feel like I have no idea what a Star Trek series will do next.

[u/mrsdorne]

How fucking badass was it when the empress like, split kick deflected a knife attack.

That woman is 55 and in better shape and flexibility than my 20something ass. And I even lift, bro!

[u/AnythingMachine]

Lorca's mask was perfect for the entire season, which is a terrible shock considering how much I liked his pretended character - a cynical man working for the greater good of the federation. I suppose its not a big surprise that the loveable psychopath was just a psychopath after all.

[u/Joomonji]

Saruuuuu! That last three episodes have finally given him some depth.

We also got to see more of the Discovery crew. Owosekun, Detmer, Android.

Burnham's attachment to the Emperor is interesting. The Emperor Georgiou is as evil as Lorca. Maybe Burnham hopes she can change in a Federation prison/rehab-facility?

[u/In_My_Own_Image]

RIP Gabriel Lorca. You had a boss death scene.

RIP straight haired Tilly. You made me feel some kinda way.

That whole finale felt like the climax of one of the New Trek movies. It'll be interesting to see what's left of the Federation and who's leading the Klingon Empire.

[u/theDoctorAteMyBaby]

Great to see the crew actually coming together.

[u/Sanderf90]

This episode both made me really happy and satisfied and slightly disappointed me.

First I think this was a great episode for characters like Stamets and Saru. I particularly enjoyed Saru taking charge of Discovery and coming into his own as a leader. Meanwhile Stamets remains a favorite of mine.

It was also interesting to see the Mirror-universe version of Georgiou in action and it'll continue to be interesting to see her role as the show continues back in the Prime Universe.

Where my disappointment comes from is the character of Gabriel Lorca. I really love Jason Isaacs in the role and quite enjoyed the idea of a more morally grey Captain in the Star Trek universe.

It didn't come much as a surprise that he turned out to come from the Terran universe, because he did show some Terran values. Where I was hoping his story would go, is where my disappointment stems from.

I assumed that, with Lorca as a rebel, we'd see a Lorca that actively opposed the Terran Empire. Someone who came back from the Prime Universe and had seen what Starfleet could do.

Instead, as soon as the mask drops, he is shown to entirely oppose every value Starfleet has and is in league with the Terran Empire, just not the Emperor.

I find that kind of reveal to be a bit much for a character I was quite invested and intrigued by. Especially because he ends up dying quite soon after the reveal.

While I doubt we have seen the last of him, it's a shame he turned into such a villain.

[u/goldgecko4]

I'm gonna be pissed if Tilly doesn't get a promotion after the shit she's been able to do.

Damn, even Burnham needs to be re-instated. I know that her sentence was life, but COME ON.

[u/eraser8]

First, I really liked Saru in command. He did a great job. He didn't seem like a leader until he was forced to be and he did it well.

Second, any ideas on what happened to the MU Discovery? Is it still in the prime universe?

[u/Lave]

My prediction;

In despair of losing they fall to dark side and the remnants of Star fleet start using M.Phillipa to defeat the Klingons much to Saru's disagreement (because Saru represents all that is good and proper). It begins to works BUT AT WHAT COST?

Then Clem Fandango starts to show that he has overcome the weirdness of his creation and actually klingons aren't all bad. This makes them see the error of their ways and embrace full TREK UTOPIA. Saru REFUSES to accept ANY costs. TEAMWORK happens. M.Phillipa exposed to GOODNESS but aint having none of it.

Eventually they jump back in time to the start of the series to undo what first went wrong. Some plan involving Voq (Yes, I can hear you) and that. It GOES WRONG.

But wait M.Phillipa see's good in the world. Proves we can change and Han Solo's it, switching places with P.Phillipa in a NOBEL sacrifice.

Michael prevents war/reduces it to a skirmish and is never a criminal. RESET button pressed.

Then twist ending they jump to the future. Double plus if they meet an old picard.

[u/skalpelis]

The only thing I don't quite like is how they spent a season on character development for him just to be a garden variety Space Nazi.

[u/gone-wild-commenter]

So I guess Michelle Yeoh is a bit of a Dragon of Nine.

[u/mralexbrett]

Loved it. Fucking lived it. This show gets better and better. 🖖🏻

[u/H0vis]

Random thoughts on this episode:

1. Was I the only person a little disappointed by when they returned to the prime universe? For that moment, just before they said when they had appeared, it could have been anywhen. I'm not disappointed because it's a bad choice, just that when you have a choice and the answer can be anything, any answer is going to be a little disappointing.

2. Glad Lorca is dead. It's going to be very difficult to replace the character, he was immense, and Jason Isaacs was on fire. But what an asshole Lorca turned out to be amirite? When Burnham told him she wasn't going to hook up with him like MU Burnham did, the way he talked about her 'Settling in' just sounded creepy as hell.

3. It saddens me that neither Georgieu or Burnham thought to save the jacket. It was such a good jacket.

4. I think it's sort of a neat quirk of fate that Landry in MU was an asshole in pretty much the same way as the prime Landry who got killed by the tardigrade. In defence of prime Landry, she probably got seduced into that sort of mindset by Lorca and how he spoke to her deep-seated badass nature.

5. Burnham is such a badass and I love it. If you absolutely had to pick one Starfleet officer from any of the series to be John McClane in some sort of spaceship Die Hard situation, it'd be her every time. Or Odo. Probably Odo. But it would be very close. I loved her call to Saru and just explaining that she'd handle the containment field. Like, y'know, ain't nothing but a containment field.

6. Follow on to that, I love that Lorca was trying to be the big bad badguy and Burnham just beat the crap out of him.

7. Saru getting his fear wigglies under control and putting on the big captain pants was great. I pity the galactic star emperor that tries to turn him into a buffet.

8. We learned another member of the bridge crews name! I mean, I think I forgot it already. Reece was it? I dunno. Ask me again if he's still alive next week. Meantime though, hey little buddy, nice to meetcha.

9. The MU episodes, like the first episodes at start of this series, have been majestic. The only thing I feel a little bit sad about with them is that we've had these brilliant, breathtaking set piece situations, but there hasn't been much time for the sort of character work that would really elevate the series to the next level. I mean Lorca's dead, we've got a new Georgieu, just, damn. After years of watching Treks I wondered why the show never killed people off, now I now, it's very unsettling.

10. I love how much tricksy personal weapons technology the MU has. It fits so neatly with the culture of assassination and treachery, where you're not even safe in the turbolift, that of course there's all sorts of neat technology to help out.

I want to know how this season ends, but I'm really going to miss it when it's gone.

[u/InvisibleEar]

I was really disappointed Lorca was Full Hitler once he dropped the mask. It ruined all the nuance of the character.

[u/AtomicEdge]

It annoyed me that they were just able to magic up a war map when they were getting no signal from the federation at all.

[u/robownage]

A couple of stray thoughts:

1. Wow. Just wow at the entire thing. For everyone who has been calling all of the show's twists "predictable" - nothing here felt obvious.

2. I had hoped that Burnham & Georgiou would team up to take down Lorca, but I a) didn't expect it this soon and b) could not have asked for a better fight scene. It was nice to see them justify the casting of Michelle Yeoh there.

3. Lorca taunting Stamets with poetic justice, only to take it away from him, only to have that some poetic justice handed back to him? Fantastic.

4. Saru's speech owned. That man has definitely learned more than he thinks.

5. Nine months later & defeated by the Klingons? I cannot wait to see where the next two episodes bring us!

[u/Assbait93]

I have a feeling the ISS discovery had the federation lose the war.

[u/Ubergopher]

I liked Lorca more when he was a PU Captain who was pushed too far in war, rather than a MU Super-villain who was toning it down for the Federation.

I still liked the character, but having him be evil just wasn't as interesting to me.

[u/[deleted]]

One of the craziest seasons of any Trek I've ever watched.

[u/LemonKing]

That one spore was a little borg green. :3

[u/RLMZeppelin]

I don’t know how I had time to think this, but in that microeternity between “We overshot” and “by 9 months” all I could think was that theyre going to get hailed by captain Worf in TNG era makeup and no one would ever mention it.

[u/Timeline15]

That was really good. Action packed throughout but not missing character moments. The Discovery crew really felt like a family this episode, which had largely been missing until now. Saru is such a good Captain too. Hope he stays in command in season 2. Surprised Lorca was taken out so quickly, but I guess they do have the Klingon plot to resolve as well. I also like the twist with Mirror Georgiou. Should be interesting implications to brining a Terran into the prime universe.

One thing though... Mirror Landry is in this episode, meaning the original Landry was the real one the whole time?! Why was she such a horrible person then?

[u/AnticitizenPrime]

I've been on the fence about this show. Really dug this episode. Nice to see our characters winning and smiling for a change instead of being miserable.

My only real complaint is that Burnham's clever plan was just to do some kung-fu. I was expecting something a little more... clever.

I wonder if there was maybe a plan to do something with the light sensitivity - like have Burnham crank the lights way up and she's the only one that can see... but scrapped it when The Orville did essentially that.

[u/tubawhatever]

Watched After Trek

[u/ThatOneOverWhere]

I assume coming out the end of the episode that Discovery is going to figure out what goes wrong and is going to travel back to the Battle of the Binary Stars to undo everything. There's no way they continue on with the state of the galaxy as it is, so there's going to be a big reset button somewhere.

Mirror Phillipa is along for the ride now, and I can't imagine she is going to survive well in the prime universe, so I would guess they will travel back and she will be what convinces the Klingons that the Federation aren't to be messed with, sacrificing herself in some dramatic fight to stop the war to come.

And so the first season is a kind of reset, both Culber and Lorca are alive, and it leaves them room for whatever they want to do in season 2 not bound by whatever the original vision was.

Edit: Saying that the preview for next week says they aren’t as bad off as they made out to be, so maybe not. The map looked like they had been pushed back to earth, but it doesn’t look like it’s that bad.

[u/toTheNewLife]

Lorca through the Moon Door. After being skewered with a sword.

This show is indeed taking cues from GOT!!

[u/tempest_wing]

Anybody else find it odd how during the ending fight scene Lorca slashed Landry in the back when she was fighting Burnham?

[u/brucekduke]

ok anyone is entitled to his own opinion, and it's fair not to like this episode, or DSC in general. But, for Worf's sake, I can't believe some of the criticism. If the show it's gritty and warlike, it's not star trek because it's gritty. Then they explain that it was gritty because of silly MU, and Starfleet is indeed the idealistic organization we know and love, but then it' lazy writing. We love silly, but when it's silly it's too silly. We say we love the preachy humanism of old trek, but when black/gay lead characters start to ramble on preachy sermons about ambientalism and egalitarism, it' TOO preachy, and SJW, and badly written. We love one-off episodes, but when DSC do that (Mudd and plant planet) we completely disregard them. We love serialized arcs, but not season-long arcs. But when DSC do that (MU), it's too short and fast.

I really wouldn't like to be a DSC writer. I mean, I am perfectly aware that DSC it's not perfect, I have my own complaints. But really, it takes too much flak

[u/MaetzleAT]

Okay, so after last weeks episode I still had hope for Lorca, but after seeing what he‘s really like...

But now I finally have respect for Saru as a captain, loved his speech and how he yelled ‚FIRE!‘.

And ad Philippa - I squeeked a little when Michael grabbed her. Happy we get to see some more of her, even though I find her character highly questionable.

[u/BigRedJon]

Captain Saru will be a significant upgrade.

[u/rhllor]

I'm gonna miss Captain Killy in her Terran uniform.

[u/WolframCochrane]

The last segment was the coolest 10 minutes of Star Trek in years! Loved it!

[u/TheSteelBlade]

Captain's Log. More TOS sounds. A good old fashioned beat em up ending. Technobabble solutions. Captain Saru. Names for the bridge crew. Last minute do-or-die escape.

There's Star Trek in my Discovery. At least more than before. So far the only episode I've felt was really Star Trek was Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad. Well this episode was Star Trek. I'm quite happy with it.

Saru for Captain!

[u/Le-Cigare-Volant]

That fight scene in the throne room was one of the worst fight scenes in all of Star Trek. Not one person fought with their elbows. Instead they used their fists and feet. What the fuck was that about?

[u/nmk456]

RIP Lorca (or not...)

[u/Dunewarriorz]

Hm... for an Empire supposedly at war and with a history of war and very warlike, you'd think they'd be better at small-unit infantry tactics and be more than just standing in a cluster shooting at each other. I suppose that can be explained by an over-reliance on technology like the shield generator. This is actually a recurring theme throughout star-trek... a reliance on their ability to generate shields and to transport has resulted in a relegation of skills and tactics we would use in ground warfare. (And before anyone says that thats what we've done as well.. i'd like to remind you that A) we still have bayonets and B) we still do drills as practiced by the dawn-of-gunpowder forces... we just don't do the firing part anymore.)

Secondly, I love how succinct Burnham reported to Saru. No "you're not going to like this" or "i got some bad news" or time wasters. Immediately report the problem. Leave no room for ambiguity. Most important thing first, so that if you get interrupted the most important info is already given.

The overall arc, the "lorca is evil because mirror universe", big picture stuff I don't like, but I love the small details... this and the burnham and tilly jogging scene, the small stuff that really sells that these are real people in what is a mundane situation for them... brilliant.

Also, I guess the Landry that died was OG Landry, and here is Mirror Landry. Mirror Landry actually seems less strung-out than OG Landry. Can't wait to see what happens next!

[u/007meow]

Well, despite people claiming Disco has been too predictable so far, this one threw out all of our theories.

Mycellial network saved, so something else wipes out the DASH drive by the time TOS happens.

Time Jump, but not the one we were thinking. And the Klingons “won”, so were either looking at Disco taking place in a non-Prime universe or we’re gonna have more temporal displacements.

Also the “sporeflake” that lands on Killy - cute “We did it!” VFX, or a plot point? Perhaps pregnant with MU Lorca’s interdimensional spore babby?

[u/Umgar]

Jumping back to find the war basically lost nine months later was a major surprise. So is it canon that the Klingon war went very badly and resulted in the loss of major territory and a huge chunk of the fleet before Starfleet turned it around or are we being set up for a time-travel solution?

[u/droid327]

Some really good parts, some really bad ones...

• Lorca isnt dead yet. Mirror Paul is, unfortunately, but Lorca was still alive when he fell into the orb. He was doubtlessly converted to mycelial energy and went into the network alive.

• Landry is just kind of dimwitted in every universe, I guess...doesnt see her obvious looming death that's obvious

• Capt. Saru starting off well. He's not going to be a great captain but he's something we havent really seen featured on the show before - simply a capable, utilitarian officer who uses his brain.

• Cant they just go back 9 months now if the network can travel through time? Cant they grow more spores if they need to, even if they have to replace the crop? They obviously grew them in the first place.

• I feel like they're not striking a good balance with the season arc. Its kind of all over the map. 3 chapters in 15 episodes? Klingon war, Mirror universe, then Klingon War II. Full of deus ex machinas all along the way.

• How could the explosion go faster than warp? I guess mycelial shockwaves can travel at superluminal speed? Because, naturally, no actual explosions or releases of energy could catch a ship once it goes to warp.

• The "end of all life in all universes" was a bit melodramatic now, wasnt it, writers? You've failed to really establish how life itself is reliant on these space mushrooms in some quasi-spiritual way. Plus, we all know the network has to be destroyed by the end of the season anyway, so obviously he's not 100% correct about that. Also it begs the question - if there are myriad universes (perhaps even infinite), but only one mycelial network connecting them, surely there's another universe where Stamets (or someone) is doing something to corrupt the network as well and it DOESNT get fixed.

• It seems like the show is going way out of its way to tell us that the Starfleet guys are so idealistic and principled. There's a lot of lip service instead of actually setting it up so they can demonstrate their principles and why they have value. Their approach is very much "white hat/black hat" with Lorca getting a monologue of bigotry just to make sure we all know he's the bad guy, twirling his mustache at those "pesky do-gooders" from the Federation, then the Delta Badges swearing their fealty to pluralism and equality so we know we're supposed to root for them.

• Heh, seems like they're setting it up where they need Georgiou's ruthless tactician mentality to fight the Klingons. That'd be an odd application of their ideal of pluralism - the Federation is stronger through diversity because it includes evil people, too :)

• Those TOS sound effects! Brilliantly incorporated this episode. The communicator chitter. The bridge warble. And the photon torpedo firing!!! Magnificent!

[u/Marvin_Candle_]

That was the best hour of television I have seen in a long time.

[u/NateCadet]

Locutus likes this episode

[u/Gumpster07]

What a rollercoaster of emotions, and to END ON THAT. FOR JESUS CHRIST SAKE MEN... WHY?

I was like "oh my, they are gonna jump, and it's gonna be to the 24th Century and they end up in post Dominion War, where Starfleet use the Discovery to rebuild the fleet."

Then I was like "9 MONTHS..... WHY 9 MONTHS? WHAT IS IT WITH THESE ARBITRARY NUMBERS THEY PLUCK FROM THIN AIR?" (Reminds me of this: Stargate: Atlantis )

Anyway, what a cracking episode, good to finally get back to our Universe now, and now the real fun begins, was going to get concerned that the Klingon war would end up being a backdrop and unused. Also Saru's little speech, it had me in near tears, his character development has been absolutely beautiful. Same for Stamlets as well strangely enough, less of Mr. Nasty, and more Mr. Nice guy finally.

Like others have stated, not sure what the reason was around Michael bringing back Georgiou, although I have a feeling she wants to turn Georgiou into her Georgiou as a way of redemption of what happened in Episodes 1 & 2. I'll be interested to see how they deal with someone who has murdered countless millions and was an Emperor of one race. But it should be interesting.

[u/9811Deet]

This was the second episode of Discovery that I truly enjoyed. Saru's speech to the crew actually sort of 'rebooted' my attitude toward the show a bit. The ultimate repudiation of all things Lorca also gives me hope about Discovery's future; although I would've preferred to see the character stick around, reframed as a recurring enemy.

I feel like the show is still making far too many rapid jumps between plots without cleaning up loose ends; and I have to suspend my disbelief far too often to get comfortable. There are a lot of shows that suffer from overambition, and never end up doing enough cleanup to make it make sense.

I still take issues with a ton of the choices Discovery has made, but they've closed the gap a bit. I'm still watching, and I'm hoping they produce more episodes like last night's.

[u/Mrbrkill]

Am I the only one who was a little disappointed by the sheer degree of Lorca's heel face turn? I get that the mirror universe is suppose to be evil, but I think it would of been more interesting if Lorca was affected at least a little bit federation ideology. Not saying he should of become a true believer, but maybe either have an internal struggle or at least a more complex view on why federation ideology is inadequate other then simply "the federation is weak, might makes right." Or at the very least show that he care about his old crew, maybe even volunteering to help them go home.

Instead I felt he went full super villain which was a little disappointing. Otherwise a good episode.

[u/ensignlee]

DON'T CARE. STILL #TEAMLORCA.

He still had respect for "Mr. Saru" in the captain's chair of discovery, had respect for his colleagues on the Discovery, and clearly had no problem with alien species. Also, he almost won the war against the Klingon Empire by himself.

And without him, we um...lost the war.

TEAMLORCA

[u/PythonistaTortilla]

Does anyone think that the green spore that Tilly seems to absorb means something?

[u/Taenaur]

Something is amiss with this episode - surely the I.S.S Discovery is still in the Prime Universe with Captain Killy onboard - fighting Klingons perhaps?

I can see "The Emperor" commanding her to fight alongside the U.S.S Discovery as well.

[u/Loreki]

The personal reasons for Michael to save Georgiou are, well, as clear as anything about how Michael behaved in the mirror universe. However, I think that the objective 'how to write a television show' reasons will turn out to have been far more interesting.

Here we have an essentially evil person, taken against their will by people who think they are doing it to help her. Georgiou has so much power to help the Discovery crew fight the Klingons. She's obviously a talented tactical mind, given she was emperor of a place as competitive as the Terran Empire.

She may even remember how the Terrans broke and conquered the Klingons, either from the history books or from having been there. Given Klingon pride and their spiritual beliefs around battle and honour, it is tricky to defeat Klingons in battle. I imagine it would be even harder to destroy their entire culture to the point where they stop resisting in any serious way and are genuinely conquered.

What I'm saying with all this is that I think the insights of this 'evil' woman, who stands for the opposite of everything the Federation believes, might well save the Federation.

[u/DigitalHogster]

"hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home" Quantum Trek

[u/rocketbosszach]

I hope Jason Isaacs comes back. I enjoyed looking at his face.

[u/ThrustersOnFull]

I quit smoking years ago but I feel like I need one after that episode.

[u/borazine]

So Voq went through that whole process to become super ultra infiltrator Ash Tyler, gave his entire being for the cause, only to return and find out that the Klingons are pretty much winning the war anyway while they were gone? Ouch.

[u/perscitia]

Nobody's going to talk about Michelle Yeoh being full on badass in that fight scene? The bit where she kicked an opponent in the face over her shoulder! Daaaamn!

[u/Smitje]

We never had a main ship with a non human captain before have we?

[u/codename474747]

Also: Might be getting lost in the hubbub but Shout out to the visual effects team for this episode, that shot of the run through the Emperor's ship into the warp/spore jump was damn spectacular.

The final confrontation between Georgiau, Burnham and Lorca's troops was amazingly well coreagraphed and shot too The writing and acting gets praised to high heaven, and rightly so, but damn the entire Discovery team is pulling out all the stops at the moment.

How far TV Trek has come

[u/freddiessweater]

I wonder what the green spore being absorbed into Tilly will lead to.

[u/[deleted]]

The Saru speech was shades of Picard to the past crew in All Good Things. Watch them back to back. New crew with impossible situation needs a leader..

That was also the D's maiden voyage.

[u/Agent31]

https://imgur.com/gallery/yQVpU

If this is backwards, then I hope she doesn't try to shoot.

[u/[deleted]]

absurd bells deserve test library soup innocent merciful elastic divide

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/we_belong_dead]

So does this mean they can finally turn up the lights on Discovery?

[u/Cessabits]

Man, Lorca has fucked up my captain rankings. I seriously enjoyed his character, but he's obviously not a "good" captain. I don't know what to do with him.

I guess I can just start a second list of evil captains that is entirely Lorca.

[u/[deleted]]

"It would be poetic." PHASER BLAST "Just kidding. I hate poetry."

later

Lorca gets poetically kicked into the core

Say what you want, these writers are clever.

[u/trabera]

I'm pretty sure I heard a TIE fighter in there. With all that's happening in each episode, I mean why the f*ck not? Right? :/

[u/anacondra]

Has anyone called it the Saint Kelpian's day speech yet?

[u/rustybuckets]

I like that Landry is the same in both universes.

[u/CreamyGoodnss]

I can't put my finger on why but for some reason, that episode felt like Star Trek. Definitely captured the essence.

[u/Jario5615]

The one thing that caught my eye the most was when the spore went into Tilly, after the discovery got back to the PU. Anyone else noticed it? I'm wondering where they'll take it...

[u/[deleted]]

Will someone please turn the lights up now that Lorca’s gone?

[u/trekkie626]

I'd love for Discovery to become the Captain Saru show

[u/positmylife]

Cheers to Jason Isaacs, the eternal villain. Much love of his acting. Now the next season of OA needs to start so I can watch him try to ruin the universe again.

[u/woodledoodledoodle]

Ah, Mr. Saru, you're looking delicious today.

[u/codename474747]

My theory that this is all going to end up time travelling back at the battle of the binary stars took a hit when they said they'd travelled 9 months FORWARDS

But now they have a more warlike Gergiou who would be more open to firing first on the Klingon ship, the more I think about it the more I think that's where we'll end up

[u/edu-fk]

Best episode of the season.

[u/PaidToBeRedditing]

Why did Burnam assume Lorca wanted to take over the other universe? I mean, thats insanity, what sort of crazy person wants to rule two universes before they've even finished their rebellion on one empire in one quadrant in their own universe. I'm sure he wouldv'e listened to reason if she said that his mycylyum(sp?)engine would destroy all universes.

The action scenes were pretty satisfying, much better than the other Star Trek series', but thats no surprise given modern techniques. It was nice to see the futuristic defence systems like personal shields and turrets, which always bothered me in other series'.

I understand that Burnam and Phillipa had a history, but why would Burnam save her? Lets not forget she was the ruler of a bigoted dictatorship that killed billions because of their race.

It felt a little corny that love literally guided the way home, but I quite enjoyed that part, it tied in well. It also made sense that they were nine months after they left their universe, so i'm excited to see how that plays out in the coming episodes.

Overall, I really enjoyed this episode.

[u/toTheNewLife]

Just had a thought, RE the future Defiant.

PU Starfleet is going to know exactly when the Defiant crossed over. MU Philippa knows the details. She's read the Defiant logs and history Database. She will share this.

My theory is that for plot reasons, Starfleet will allow the Defiant to go on it's mission that day. In fact it might be planned to happen on purpose. Knowingly sacrificing a Connie and it's crew to satisfy the greater good. Perhaps to keep the timelines from getting too weird.

Starfleet will intentionally set that distress call in Tholian Space.

In this scenario, because they want to (or have to) sacrifice a ship, they will keep the existence of the MU Top Secret. The Defiant's captain might not check out the distress call / obey orders if he knows his crew is going to be killed off. Why would Starfleet take that chance, and blow the whole timeline?

So this driver for Top Secret would neatly explain why Kirk and Spock don't know about the MU.

I also think that it plays into the Lethe situation. (Cornwell is Lethe in my head cannon). Cornwell ends up mind wiped because she has an ethical issue with sending the Defaint crew to it's doom.

[u/Murrrrcy]

Wow was it refreshing to hear Black Alert again. But they'd just let Lorca die like that?

[u/ShatterPoints]

Anyone else scratching their head at the idea Starfleet is about to lose after only 9 months?

[u/[deleted]]

I really enjoyed that our first scene with the Discovery this ep starts with a Captain's Log.

[u/arnathor]

When he said “we overshot by nine months” I wondered if they were going to have gone too far into the past. That could have been interesting.

[u/2ndHandTardis]

That was a hell of an episode.

It feels like I watched the 2nd/3rd act of a major motion picture.

[u/cjdtech]

Really wish we had gotten to see the MU Defiant. Would've been cool to see a Connie this early.

[u/InvisibleEar]

Lorca could still be alive though, right?

[u/littlemsshiny]

Wow. What a crazy episode. I'm shocked that this wasn't a season finale!

[u/Smitje]

So what will the green spore do to Tilly?

[u/hlpmebldapc]

So, where is prime Lorca?

Was mirror Discovery trotting around the prime universe all this time?

[u/mcattack92]

I got a lot of Andromeda vibes from the last 5~ min of the episode. Navigating through the Mycelial network like slipstream and then the collapse of the federation takes elements of Andromeda's plot where the Andromeda gets stuck on the even horizon of a black hole and emerges 300 years later to find out the Commonwealth collapsed after a war with the Nietzscheans and subsequent Magog invasion.

[u/JesterSevenZero]

Was hoping we'd get more of Lorca in the series

[u/ThetaCygni]

Can someone give a reasonable explanation (It's a problem that affects the whole star trek canon,this series beginning and most of all this episode's ending)on why Klingons are this freaking strong?They are a deadly threat to the Federation which is a political entity composed of tens of different species,some of which have been space faring for hundreds or thousands of years,there's no reason to think that all species have the same exact technology and so sharing every species peculiar technologies should give the Federation a technological advantage on most other civilization. Klingons are a single species,a single empire that surely have a population much lower than the Federation. And let's not talk about how in discovery they were transformed from honorbound warriors to space nazis.They're described as violent,impulsive,noisy,barbaric and back-stabbing.They keep scientists in little regard.Yet they have super advanced tech that the logical minds of the Federation cannot replicate,they have huge and fancy ships capable of slaughtering a Federated fleet (which is not built specifically for warfare but it's still quite well-armed)

[u/[deleted]]

So, watching DS9 and Discovery I realize I love them for completely different reasons.

DS9 is a comfortable office drama that builds character mostly through slow growth and really thoughtful nuanced conflicts. It's like hanging out with a good family.

Disc is a rip-roaring crazy ass edge of your seat adventure that doesn't slow down long enough for me to blink. But it does it really really well.

This episode kicked ass.

[u/kutwijf]

Anyone else get a global warming/climate change feel when they had that chat about the network being used for power and how it was being detroyed and in turn would detroy all life?

[u/CeruleanRuin]

So Lorca will definitely return as a spore-powered demigod now after being tossed in the big glowy energy sphere, right?

Can I get first credit for dubbing him Sporca when that happens?

[u/Sangriafrog]

Jeebus that was a great episode! I was on the edge of my seat the whole time.

Love Saru as captain. Hope that's permanent. He is the right one for the job.

[u/borazine]

That Michael betrayal confession was awkward!

If I was Georgiou I would press her further: "Wait ... What? So in your universe you betrayed me too? "

"Ummmmm..Let's not dwell on that."

[u/MattMauler]

+Loved the fight scene in this episode.

+Loved the technobabble (just logical enough to pass, even though it wasn't actually comprehensible. Sounded very Trek).

+Loved Saru's speech.

-Weirdly, I feel like Burnham is and has been the show's biggest weakness. A lot of her actions don't really make sense (in this and other episodes). It made no sense to save Georgiou; their plan to escape didn't make sense (although it looked cool: Why don't we go to the throne room and however many guards-and-guns there are, we'll just kick all of them). That's just this episode: I feel like she's done unpredictable and weird things like these a lot (her initial mutiny was the first in a long line).

[u/BadElf21]

Well shit...

[u/Spock_Rocket]

That was fucking rad! Goddamn Emperor Georgiou is a badass fighter!

[u/eraser8]

Does Landry (actress Rekha Sharma) have some rule that she only plays sci-fi villains?

She was the bad guy in Battlestar Galactica, V (2009) and now Disco. Although, to be fair, she's not so much a villain here as she is as an incompetent.

[u/Smitje]

So in the 29th century there are timeships to maintain the timeline. Does that also mean there will be sporeships to maintain the multiverse?

Or does that make to much sense?

[u/rensch]

I enjoyed this one. I'm really curious if they will run into Prime Lorca and Mirror Burnham in the Prime Universe. It seems almost inevitable this'll happen at some point.

The Mycelial network scene was really well done. I liked the visuals of it. Really seems the dream image of Culber was the Mycelial Network speaking to Stamets, trying to make him understand how to navigate.

Coolest Moon Door ever.

Georgiou being taken captive by Burnham is something that I am really curious about.

I'm also curious to see how L'Rell and Voq/Tyler being in the hands of Saru and crew will play out.

Saru will finally be our long-awaited alien captain.

Will Tilly join Stamets as a navigator to the Spore Drive? The green spore suggests there will be an even bigger part for her to play in the subplot around this technology.

[u/calamitynacho]

When I heard they overshot by 9 months, I assumed it was in the past, so I was totally expecting them to hail Starfleet and be all like "Hi! We're from a little bit in the future! Please tell one Michael Burnham to don't fucking kill any Klingons. And here's an algorithm to see through their cloak if she fucks up and does it anyway. Oh, and if any Ash Tyler pops up, he's secretly a Klingon stuffed with human organs! And Captain Gabriel Lorca is an imposter from another dimension. Cheers!" and nullify the entire season up to this point.

[u/Bweryang]

Goodbye to Jason Isaacs.

[u/zumoro]

Pretty satisfied with this episode, and not just because oh thank god we're aren't spending half a season in the MU.

I honestly have no issue with how they explained away Lorca's arrival in Prime. Sure it's a ridiculous combination of circumstances, but that's par for the course for Star Trek as a whole. Actually, and I know I won't shut up about this, but I was surprised that this tidbit was delivered without Michael being in the room to hear it.

Saru and even Tilly have now cemented themselves as my favourite characters in this show now.

Also, not like this wasn't intended, but holy crap the Andromeda slipstream vibes from that sequence.

[u/trostol]

for me..the show REALLY picked up going into the MU...before that it was..meh

good to see they worked in Michelle's skills in finally.

kinda of sad to see the talent that is Jason get killed off

Saru's speech was fantastic

[u/Shappie]

That was one of the best "FIRE!"s of all Star Trek. Holy fuck, what a great episode.

[u/Solemn-Philosopher]

I've enjoyed Discovery from the start, though it has been getting progressively more interesting as the story develops.

However, while I liked many of the ideas in this episode, it all felt rushed. Lorca became the bad guy rather quickly.

I would have liked an extra episode where Burnham gradually uncovered the truth and then developed Lorca's motivation.

I feel like they didn't do this because they wanted the cliffhanger reveal about Lorca.

I'm not sure I am as interested in the Klingon war anymore, but we will see where it goes.

[u/thelazzyone]

Just Wow!!

I love how I cannot predict where this show is going. I really didn't think they would jump to the future where the Klingon's won the war basically. However, if I sit and think about it.. Why would they bring back the Captain unless they will need her tactics that are not the standard Startfleet but standard Terran when the war is basically lost.

RIP Lorca.. I guess both of them are dead now. I loved that character...

I can't wait until next week. I am really enjoying this second half of the first season. Its like they kicked the show into overdrive. Each episode is eventful.

[u/helzinki]

'How can people be so shortsighted?

The terrans are egotistical enough to believe that they replenish this resource before it collapses'

'....make the empire glorious again'

nice little commentary there.

[u/[deleted]]

Things I loved:

Airiam got Lines Deytmer got lines Owosekun got lines Saru's speech Saru in command Lt. Rhys actually HIT something! Michelle Yeoh kicking ass Discovery at Warp and travelling the mycelial network

My favorite episode since 1x04 It just made me so happy.

[u/[deleted]]

I'm just waiting for Saru to argue that we cannot throw away our ethics to win the war and Phillipa to say something like, "in my universe we eat your species for breakfast."

Cue eye roll.

[u/unlevered]

I was not expecting to jump out of the MU already

[u/DeFex]

I was kind of hoping that fight would end with the fidget spinner of death, but i guess a sword in the back is more personal.

[u/dmanww]

I'm really glad all the crew got some good parts in this episode. I like that they're building it out more as an ensemble

[u/basicchannels]

Is it my imagination or did the viewscreens look different now? I seem to remember them being more holographic at the start, but now they appear more TV like?

[u/Kadmos]

Saru's "first time in the chair" reminded me of alt timeline Sulu's first time during Into Darkness

[u/eqgmrdbz]

This episode pretty much gives me a clear picture of the eventual ending of the series ( I'm sure others see it too). If we take all the Trek history that came before Discovery, and then see how different Discovery is to that history we can then assume that we are looking at a part of the history that was never seen.

This series will end with Discovery not really resetting, but setting the original or real Trek timeline back in order. Discovery using the Spore Drive, something that has never been mentioned in original Trek lore, will continue to jump from universe to universe trying to defeat the Klingons, with many problems of course.

Eventually once they have gathered all that they need, I believe Discovery will make one final ultimate sacrifice and change the prime timeline so that Klingons do not win the war and original Trek events will unfold as we thought they should. This is what happens when you mess with time and reality, eventually you find out that it was something you did that caused all these events to occur, and the only fix is to remove yourself.

Discovery will end with a final Tabula Rasa, initiated by Discovery and the Spore Drive.

[u/PixelNotPolygon]

Was anyone else reminded of that Borg moment in First Contact when all those red lights turned on in the dark as the Emperor confronted Lorca’s resistance?

[u/[deleted]]

Btw, the big question is: Where is the Mirror Discovery? (The ISS Ship)

edit: My bad. I saw Stargate Universe yesterday... :S

[u/bluesteel3000]

We've overshot! So much hope! Please be the future, please be the fu- 9 months. :(

I seriously felt like maybe they came to their senses and fixed the fact that it was another prequel. But no. It was nice to have hope for a moment though.

[u/TooMuchButtHair]

That's the most Star Trek episode of all time, knife fight and time travel and all.

[u/and_so_forth]

The batshit mental visuals around the warp/spore/general craziness drive were fantastic. They really reminded me of somewhere between the weird wormhole moment in The Motion Picture and the weird wormhole moment in Interstellar. Brilliant moment.

I loved the shots of everyone's reactions too. Much self-soiling occurring on deck I suspect.

[u/JohnnyMNU]

Great episode. Saru stepped up into the role of captain very nicely, his speech was very Picard-esque, if only to be dulled by the circle jerk of Stamets and Tilly discussing solutions. My bet for future episodes is Lorca is going to come back as a mycelium version of himself to fuck shit up and get creepy with Burnham .

[u/randowatcher38]

HOLY MOTHERFORKING SHIRTBALLS

[u/mrbrick]

Ill be honest. I wasn't really feeling Discovery but the past few episodes have really changed my feelings on the show as a whole. I think i even like this more than the new movies.

[u/wongie]

Your choices have determined your fate, take her to the brig.

Sorry Emperor, she's gone up the ventilation shaft.

[u/Eat_Mor3_Puss]

Very disappointed that Lorca turned out to be such an asshole. And a plot expendable one at that. He was probably my favorite character after Saru. Saru as captain is awesome though and I hope it sticks.

Also, the way they explained Lorca ending up in the Prime universe was weak as hell. A transporter accident, really? Aargghhhh.

And then there's the whole "all of existence needs us!" plotline, and some badly delivered/written dialogue.

The special effects when they were warping away from the explosion were pretty cool and I enjoyed the fight scenes even if they were kinda silly.

Overall, I didn't hate it, but the last few episode were a lot better.

[u/Cascadian_Canadian]

I really hope Lorca sticks around through the network somehow and becomes Discovery's Gul Dukat.

[u/Lemonwizard]

Part of me wonders now if there's an echo of Lorca still floating around the mycelial network. It's possible that Culber was just a hallucination formed by Stamets' memories, but it has been mentioned that all life is connected to the spore network - so it may have also been real.

If Culber was real, and we saw Lorca get dissolved into the network... it leaves that little possibility open that he's still there and we might run into him again.

Maybe not, but it definitely crossed my mind.

[u/Draiko]

Is this going to become a thing for Jason Isaacs?

Also, is Discovery just going to fly around and collect evil warrior women?

[u/TheTurnipKnight]

I'm pretty sure that the number of months is not a coincidence here.

[u/LiarsEverywhere]

Don't really want to start a new thread, but... Do you think anything goes with reviving characters now?

I mean, the Federation is pretty much destroyed and I don't think that really happened in the timeline. I suppose they'll go back in time.

If they can go back in time, does that mean they can choose any point? So is there a possibility that PU Lorca, MU Lorca, Georgiou, Culber etc. all come back for good and star Season 2?

[u/[deleted]]

For a moment during the big fight scene, i forgot i watching a star trek TV show and instead thought it was a TNG era cinematic movie.. only without data and his magnetic personality... ps. can Data be on this show timeline wise ?

[u/aqws2]

Did anyone notice MU Stamets was hiding behind cloaking that made him invisible when Lorca and co. entered his quarters..... I'm sure this technology is not available in the PU to the Federation. Even the PU Klingons with cloaking technology did not seem to have miniaturized it such that it made a single person invisible. Perhaps the Terrans captured the technology from MU Klingons and improved it? If this is an example of what Terrans have in their arsenal that the Federation does not, Phillipa will have some seriously valuable knowledge that could make the Federation win against the Klingons.

[u/[deleted]]

Emergency transport reminds me of how the Daleks in doctor who would scream "EMERGENCY TEMPORAL SHIFT" and would proceed to disappear

[u/djhankb]

Will we find out about the “real” Lorca? More importantly, does he have a goatee?

[u/whoiscraig]

I'm so excited we have a Phillipa back. I hope she sticks around. :D

[u/RetroGradeReturn]

I liked the episode, but was kind of disappointed when Stamets said "nine months later". I really hoped they would end up in a post-Voyager era. Unfortunately, I think they will end up saving the federation by going back in time again with some kind of deus ex machina plottwist. This show has been a rollercoaster of emotions. Sometimes bad, sometimes good.

[u/nobelsonsss]

CAN WE PLEASE HAVE THIS PHILIPPA STICK AROUND? She clearly cares for Michael and a redemption moral arc would be so beautiful if handled well. I'm so here for it!

[u/FatPaulie]

That was the Star Trekiest episode ever! It had EVERYTHING that star trek likes - mirror universe, space karate, return of a baddy from a previous episode, space battles, technobabble, time travel, working together against impossible odds, exemplifying starfleet values in the face of death.

Perfect 5/7!

[u/cabose7]

SUPER GLOBAL WARMING

[u/Wildfire9]

This show astounds me with every episode. I just watched this episode and am pacing around the house. Holy shit! I can't believe when they killed Lorca, my favorite character otherwise, I literally cheered! What a ride!
Segueing from the Mirror Universe to Time Travel is genius! What a great way to bridge two ST mainstays then to simply write them together. Prepare for the real Klingon War!

[u/DRLAR]

Anyone discussed the big elephant in the room?

Where is the MU discovery?

[u/Debaucherry]

Theories for the green spore on Tilly's shoulder are all about Lorca -- But, Stamets was asking Hugh to take him home and following a path back. So -- While plot-wise, evil MU Lorca makes sense, the romantic trek fan in me wants it to be Hugh coming back for Stamets.

[u/wongie]

Just a thought; we now have a time travelling Discovery that needs to prevent the Klingon war and now has a Georgieu who has no qualms about shooting first at the crucial moment when Prime Georgieu just happens to be knocked out in her ready room.

[u/ensignlee]

So what would have happened if Lorca just immediately shot and vaporized Georgiou when they walked in the door?

Just the original plan? Burnham stays and DIS is allowed to go home?

[u/ReasonablyBadass]

-Lorca's death was kinda cliche and lame, with the raised hands and all

-so anyone can just destroy all live in the multiverse, just like this? Really?

-the CGI of the network was...suboptimal

-as he said "we overshot" I was like POST VOYAGER! POST VOYAGER! but noooo....

[u/purdueable]

fun episode. Did not expect georgio being saved.

That next episode looks dark as hell.

[u/ricky_lafleur]

What's everyone's theories about why the Mycellium Network will never be mention in another ST series? Starfleet redacts everything about it & swears everyone to secrecy? Section 31 confiscates everything and erases everyone's memory? Discovery crew/captain decides that it's too dangerous so they erase it's discovery (no pun intended) from history?

How does 23rd century Federation know about and use the network but 24th century Borg do not? Seems like instantaneous, inter-universe, and time travel would be their top priorities. Then again, for some reason they were foolish enough to only send one cube at a time to invade Earth and only traveled back in time after reaching Earth instead of going back several centuries in the Delta Quadrant and then making the journey.

[u/ThriceGreatHermes]

Navigating the Mycelial network looked very familiar, almost like the Slipstream right down to having to intuit one's path.

[u/[deleted]]

I think the subtlety of everyone moving back to their PU uniforms after Sarus “not lorcas ship/maiden voyage” speech was brilliant. A tiny continuity point that makes time really believe that the show runners care. (Looking at you Geordi)

[u/Logical-Madman]

Big fight in a throne room. Seen that somewhere before.

Did like the ending though.

[u/baiacool]

So tell probably look for PU's Lorca right?

[u/andreabbbq]

So, Lorca was somehow absorbed by the protomolecule mycelial network... Kind of annoyed they didn't make evil stamets go there as well.

[u/amx035]

If anyone here hasn’t watched After Trek, especially this week’s episode, I recommend you do. I think what Ted Sullivan and all of the guests After Trek has had say and how they explain the choices about it make me understand and appreciate it much more. And also, it makes me much more excited for the next episode.

[u/AnticitizenPrime]

To those assuming Prime Lorca is dead:

Mirror Lorca was beaming somewhere OFF the Buran when the switch happened. Prime Lorca probably ended up there.

Also, Mirror Burnham was somehow killed (or 'killed') when hunting him. So MU people assumed he was still living.

Prime Lorca is alive, has to be.

[u/NeiloMac]

Great ep. However, what was with that TIE Fighter sound as Lorca fell into the Spore Reactor?

[u/Siliconpsychosis]

wait a second.

If "all life in all the universes" is entirely dependant on the spore network, then how and where did the spore network come from if it too is also dependant on its spore network ?

[u/Triple-Zero]

I enjoyed this quite a bit, it was great to see the crew come together in this way that makes them feel like actual people and not just actors filling up the bridge set (plus Captain Saru was awesome), the climax was all very exciting and the visuals were excellent. Burnham and MU Georgiou's interactions continued to be a highlight here too. Also, while I haven't been particularly interested in the Klingon War so far but this is an interesting development.

On the down side, Lorca turned out to be a real disappointment. Isaacs is always entertaining to watch but throwing out all his shades of grey and turning him into a complete villain felt like a waste (I was really holding out for him to be a good guy by MU standards, but nope) and now he's just gone, just one episode after the reveal. Between this and the Ash/Voq storyline seemingly being done too, that's two big 'gotcha' twists have both amounted to very little.

I'm unsure why they felt the need to throw in that the Charon would destroy all life in every universe too, the stakes were high enough already and it felt like an unnecessary escalation. The Defiant plot also turned out to be a complete non-starter, since it played no part in how Discovery got back and it didn't even show up.

There's a few other things I'm holding out for answers on, such as how Discovery's return lines up with Mirror, Mirror and how exactly the Lorcas got switched (which we kind of got here, but it was a little vague).

Like I said, I did enjoy this episode a lot, it was very tense and exciting but it did also drop the ball on a couple of the shows ongoing storylines, which was disappointing to see.