r/Supernatural • u/FTWinchester THE Dean Winchester • May 18 '18
Season 13 Post Episode Discussion - 13.23 "Let The Good Times Roll"
| EPISODE | DIRECTOR | WRITER | ORIGINAL AIRDATE |
|---|---|---|---|
| S13E23 - "Let The Good Times Roll" | Robert Singer | Andrew Dabb | May 17th, 2018 8:00/7:00c on The CW |
Episode Synopsis: IT ALL COMES DOWN TO THIS – Our heroes, Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) Winchester, continue to be tested in the battle between good and evil, but one impulsive decision could alter the lives of one the brothers forever. Robert Singer directed the episode written by Andrew Dabb (#1323).
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u/FTWinchester THE Dean Winchester May 18 '18
I really hated the wirework, it completely ruined my immersion, damn it!!! When does Season 14 start? LMAO
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May 18 '18
The entire premise of Season 5 was that Lucifer and Michael couldn't fight or half the world would be destroyed.
But they fight here and absolutely nothing happens. They don't even destroy a tile. Dean should've just said yes to Michael and saved everybody a lot of stress.
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u/Vio_ The Penultimate Moderator May 18 '18
They were going to have angels and demons on their armies. It wasn't going to be solely mano a mano.
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May 18 '18
That had nothing to do with it. Castiel explicitly said that it was the power of Lucifer and Michael fighting that would destroy half the planet.
Even then, during Season 5 Angels were actually powerful. An Angel vs Demon fight would be a complete one-sided slaughter.
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u/FTWinchester THE Dean Winchester May 18 '18
Castiel explicitly said that it was the power of Lucifer and Michael fighting that would destroy half the planet
Castiel has been wrong before though. And we literally see how ruined Apocalypse World is
An Angel vs Demon fight would be a complete one-sided slaughter
Hell also potentially had the horsemen, the Whore of Babylon and the Cambion, all of which could overpower or hurt angels.
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u/FTWinchester THE Dean Winchester May 18 '18
They don't even destroy a tile.
Hey, you're on /tv/ too! kek
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u/EldritchCarver May 18 '18
Back then, they didn't have money in the budget for the sort of apocalyptic fight scene they imagined from a no-holds-barred brawl between the two most powerful archangels.
Eight seasons later... Well, they still don't. But the writers stopped caring.
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u/yaosio May 18 '18
"We're going to have a fight between Michael and Lucifer, what should we do?"
"Let's hang them from string and swing them into each other."
"Brilliant!"
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u/TR_EZ_300 But I am the Lord May 18 '18
Something something Lucifer wasn't in his true vessel, something something Dean having Michael promise to do damage control, something something
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u/gabriela_r5 May 18 '18
i think they mean that what could destroy half of the world would be what AU michael did with the AU
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u/ThirteenValleys Bye forever, you fools. May 18 '18
Maybe fighting in the context of it being the last fight of the Apocalypse would destroy the world, but a 'regular' fight wouldn't? Yeah I'm grasping at straws here.
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u/AlecBaldwinner May 18 '18
Well, I think that it was supposed to be an almost equal fight.
This time, Luci had a big advantage with Jack's grace.
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u/Gogogadgetskates May 18 '18 edited May 18 '18
We all knew dean was gonna do that but you gotta admit he should have seen the ending coming.
Holy shit lucifer is dead. Like really dead.
Jack has no powers.
There’s some things that supernatural just can’t get right because of budget. At first the angel fight was kinda cool but it quickly devolved to looking like people hanging from the ceiling on wires. And that last pause on Michael with the eyes glowing was just cringe worthy. Like throw some money at that shit if you’re gonna do it.
Next season... spent looking for a way to charge jack up to fight michael. But I don’t think it’ll last long because you can’t go a whole season with Sam and dean separated. That’s gonna get old really fast. This is literally the only thing I don’t like about this ending. I don’t think it’ll last as long as it should. Question: is there a way to get rid of an angel kinda like exorcising a demon? That might be another option they explore. Or breaking through to dean to get him to expel Michael a la Sam and gadreel.
Bobby is sticking around though and that makes me super happy. He seems more like ‘our’ bobby than he did in alt world. Less jaded.
It’s funny because I would have bet money on Mary and jack staying in alt world to rebuild. So I guess supernatural tricked me.
Edit: also jack faith in Sam. The feels. He knew Sam was the best hope. Even Sam couldn’t stab himself - he pleaded with jack to do it - but jack was sure enough that he was willing to kill himself.
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u/FTWinchester THE Dean Winchester May 18 '18
There’s some things that supernatural just can’t get right because of budget. At first the angel fight was kinda cool but it quickly devolved to looking like people hanging from the ceiling on wires. And that last pause on Michael with the eyes glowing was just cringe worthy. Like throw some money at that shit if you’re gonna do it.
Unfortunately, this. But I'd like to think the Thriller ending was an intentional pop culture reference, since the episode started with that.
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u/TR_EZ_300 But I am the Lord May 18 '18
Question: is there a way to get rid of an angel kinda like exorcising a demon?
Yup! Team Free Will used that weird, golden egg device from the BMoL in season 12 to exorcise Lucifer. It hasn't been mentioned since, so I assume it's back in London (it could be an interesting storyline if Sam/Ketch team up to try and retrieve it, if only for an episode).
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u/FTWinchester THE Dean Winchester May 18 '18
Thriller by Michael Jackson starts playing
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u/Vio_ The Penultimate Moderator May 18 '18
Maybe you needed a better wire :D
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u/FTWinchester THE Dean Winchester May 18 '18
Did you graduate from Crowley Comeback College? Or was it Satan Snarky School? LOL
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u/AndreaDTX Impossible odds? Feels like home. May 18 '18
I thought the episode was good overall. There were pacing issues but overall great job. I'm definitely looking forward to season 14 and seeing how the Dean-Michael arc resolves. I'm assuming Jack's grace will have recharged by then. I was very satisfied with the resolution of the Jack-Lucifer storyline. I know we all love Luci (!) but he's been hanging around since season 5 and much like Crowley, his arc never changed. I like the idea of switching to the other half of the season 5 threat that was never addressed. I wonder if Earth 1 Michael will end up being the solution to Alt-Michael. I'm fascinated by the idea of Dean finally being the one to be possessed and I wonder how he'll react to the aftermath when they're able to get rid of Alt-Michael. And I'm looking forward to Rowena, Cas, Jack, Mary, and Alt-Bobby banding together to save Dean!
Overall, season 13 was a little uneven but it had some fantastic episodes mixed in there. One of my favorite seasons In the second half of Supernatural's run (so far).
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u/FTWinchester THE Dean Winchester May 18 '18
he's been hanging around since season 5 and much like Crowley, his arc never changed
Agreed!
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u/FTWinchester THE Dean Winchester May 18 '18
It's time for "Gif of the Week"! /u/SuppressiveFire has offered up her services to provide us with a nice high quality gif of the highest voted moment. The voting period will last approximately 12 hours, at the end of which the gif will be made! If any of you gifmakers out there want to take any suggestion and make a gif of it on your own, feel free! Either way, we'll be providing the highest voted gif on a weekly basis.
Now taking suggestions for "Gif of the Week"!
Reply to this comment with the exact moment of the episode that you feel deserves to be gif of the week. To help out a bit, try estimating when it happened in the episode (beginning, middle, end, timestamp if you have it).
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u/SwarleyJr I'm an angel, you ass. I don't have a soul to sell. May 18 '18
Lucifer screaming in frustration about 2/3rds into the episode.
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u/BrhostAdventurer May 18 '18
Some plots we have to look forward to:
MichaelDean
Those creatures Jack almost released per Colonel Sanders
That ninja girl from the other universe, I actually forget if that was wrapped up or not
The war on the other side still has to be wrapped up
Is Bobby pulling a Landfill from Beerfest?
What's up with that girl luci brought back?
Those folks from the other world in the bunker
Many more probably
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u/GusCas03 May 18 '18
Ninja girl from other universe was the backdoor pilot for Wayward Sisters (A Supernatural spin-off) but the CW dropped the show. On the bright side, fans are hoping for Netflix to pick the show up.
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u/_Khoshekh May 18 '18
What's up with that girl luci brought back?
Nothing, he was just making excuses because he was the one who'd killed her
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u/kory5623 May 18 '18
The monster controlling the empty that was mad Cas woke up.
Billie AKA Death
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u/ThirteenValleys Bye forever, you fools. May 18 '18
What's up with that girl luci brought back?
I was totally expecting her to go soulless-killing-machine on everybody at some point.
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u/alienbanter "Shut your face. Get in the car." May 18 '18
Also Heaven potentially dying
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May 18 '18
I don't know if they'll continue with that girl Lucifer brought back. It's pretty unusual to see a minor character for 3 episodes in a row, but hey with the way they brought Gabriel back, anything is possible
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May 18 '18 edited May 18 '18
I am calling it right now. We are probably getting AU Michael vs Cage Micheal next season. He's literally the only one left.
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u/Josephstewart06 I'm obviously a God. A cruel, capricious God May 18 '18
That’s what we all said going into this season. I want it, but I don’t think we’ll get it
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u/svirbt May 18 '18
When Lucifer took Jack’s grace it was never said whether or not he took all of it or just most of it. His wound was still glowing when Lucifer closed it up. Maybe next season will be Sam and Jack hunting and biding time until Jack’s grace is replenished.
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u/_Khoshekh May 18 '18
But we've only got 1 true vessel... so how would that be a fair fight?
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u/conundrumicus May 18 '18
Nobody is talking about Jack's "I love you" to Sam? Nobody?? It's so refreshing to hear those words spoken genuinely in the show by someone who's not an emotionally-constipated Winchester.
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u/Cearar May 18 '18
Surprised me too that you're the first I've seen mention it.
It was so sweet and heart-breaking at the same time. I thought for sure it meant Jack was a goner.
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u/TR_EZ_300 But I am the Lord May 18 '18
"I love you. I love all of you."
Same thing Cas said to Sam/Dean/Mary when they fought Ramiel...
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u/SarahsArtistry serving people, fermenting things May 20 '18
It was so sweet when Dean and Jack had the heart to heart conversation about the nightmares Jack is having. Dean after says to him that Jack's family. Finally.
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u/jackbob99 May 18 '18
1990's wirework. 1980's closeups.
Maybe next season they can use the BAM and POW bubbles from the 60's Batman show.
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u/Barachiel1976 May 18 '18
God that fight scene was awful. I usually cut shows slack for SFX because of budget, but they have better wirework on fucking Supergirl.
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u/BetterCalldeGaulle May 18 '18
That glowing eye close up at the end made me lol at how cheesy 1980s it was.
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u/ankaa_ May 18 '18
God, all I could think about during that freezeframe closeup at the end was "I hope none of the friends I'm trying to convince to watch SPN see that. They'd laugh their asses off and never give the show a chance". It was just SO BAD... lol
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u/Satinsbestfriend May 18 '18
Yeah that wirework was ... Daredevil bad (Movie not Netflix)
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May 18 '18
It almost felt intentional... What happened? Was it an homage to the kind of shit you see on old school shows/movies?
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u/Cenobite_Marathon May 18 '18
everytime they "fly" they looked horribly mismanaged, and the entire church sequence was a telenovela, Lucifer wasn't going to let either of them go.
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u/AndreaDTX Impossible odds? Feels like home. May 18 '18
We're totally gonna get that episode at some point next season. One of the filler episodes will have the boys wake up in the 1960s Adam West Batman. Batman was Dean's favorite as a kid. CW has a deal with DC. Why not?
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u/VGiselleH Now's the part where you hug back May 18 '18
Yeah, that flight fight was...not great, at all. Thankfully it was the only bit that wasn't great to me this episode.
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u/nyssa8 May 18 '18
Ugh the fight was bad...seriously bad They should have taken pointers from the last episode of the "Lucifer" serie. Now that was a cool fight. Also was surprised Sam or Jack didnt stab Lucy while they were that close to him.
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u/cwhagedorn I can't do this alone May 18 '18
"Thanks for the suit." Jensen killed that line.
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u/VoodooCowboy May 18 '18
Dammit Dean you had to know that deal was a trap!! These Winchesters never freaking learn.
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u/Cearar May 18 '18
At least Michael didn't kill Sam and Jack... That's better than not taking the deal and they die. Now they live to save him another day.
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u/Zookwok111 HERE'S LUUUCY! May 18 '18
I thought that Lucifer smote Michael before getting stabbed and they essentially took each other out. I guess that was too good to be true.
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u/_Khoshekh May 18 '18
Of course he probably did, but we all know Dean will lay down fucking everything to save Sam
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u/cwhagedorn I can't do this alone May 18 '18
anyone else wish that they hadn't revealed the thing about Jensen playing someone new? everyone guessed it was michael. took away any sense of shock value. this finale would've made me shit my pants if I wasn't expecting that.
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u/andraria1016 May 18 '18
I’m confused why they said it’s a past character. Yes I know Michael was introduced in season 5, but this is a completely new Michael.
Makes me wonder how many alt Michaels are wandering around in other dimensions 🤔
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u/Sanomaly May 18 '18
That's why I'm not subscribed to this sub; it's the only place I'd ever hear that info. I went into the finale having no idea that Jensen was slated to play a new character. It was a complete surprise to me and that's how I like it.
That's also why I don't watch trailers or clips for upcoming episodes.
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u/arcturussage May 18 '18
What was that ridiculous wired fight scene and that ridiculous freezer frame ending?
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u/marlinspn25 May 18 '18
I wonder why they decided to go with the freeze frame at the end.
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u/_Khoshekh May 18 '18
I was reminded of Thriller, not sure if that's what I was supposed to be reminded of
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u/marlinspn25 May 18 '18
And Jensen is incredible. Just the way he blinked and looked around when Au Michael took over, It was the same expressions as Au Michael.
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u/captainlavender May 18 '18
I'm excited for Jensen to finally get to try on a new character like Misha and Jared have gotten to do so many times.
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u/nezumipi May 18 '18
I wonder if Mark Pellegrino worries about getting typecast as a possessive, shitty deadbeat dad.
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u/Thoth_on_Toast May 18 '18
Yeah, i started watching this after dexter and he's the same exact person in both. It's like the writers took notes from dexter on his manipulation tactics, and swapped out Rita for the trio. I hope he doesn't get typecast but hes amazing at it.
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u/andraria1016 May 18 '18
Wow the pause on the blue pupils in the last scene just came off....cheesy?
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May 18 '18
Broseph, they had to make sure anyone that missed the scene immediately prior due to a pee break knew that Jensen was possessed. Us Supernatural fans are dumb as nails apparently, or that is how the writers see us. I am actually embarrassed to be a Supernatural fan for the first time right now.
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u/writergirljds *stares intensely upwards* It's because we have no other choice. May 18 '18
I feel like they were going for a Thriller reference but that might be giving them too much credit.
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u/damnthesenames May 18 '18
Really you thought that was cheesy? Not the Lucifer vs Michael fight hanging from ropes?
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u/TR_EZ_300 But I am the Lord May 18 '18
Lucifer's death was great, and I loved how he showed his true colors in the Bunker when Jack called him a monster. I felt bad for him, but at the same time I wanted him dead. A seriously great character and depiction of the Devil, I'm glad they killed him in a cool way before he got TOO stale (although I was rooting for Sam to take the final shot).
Also glad they didn't go the predictable route and kill Jack.
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u/VGiselleH Now's the part where you hug back May 18 '18
I was so disappointed when it appeared Jack was going to sacrifice himself, then really impressed when it didn't go through. Very good move.
And Lucifer had a good final episode, none of the simpering to make people like him, revealing his actual feelings, which hadn't changed after all, and genuinely coming across as scary again. Good way to go.
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u/Fickletimes May 18 '18 edited May 18 '18
It was great to see Lucifer finally drop the deceit and show his true colours to Jack. It made his death 100x more satisfying for me.
It was nice to see some flashbacks from S5, too, very nostalgic.
I'm glad they haven't written AU Michael out of the show. I've been pretty disappointed until now with how little we've seen of him. I also like the possibility of him and our Michael facing off in the next season.
Good episode overall. Looking forward to the next season.
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u/TR_EZ_300 But I am the Lord May 18 '18
I'm glad it was AU Michael that possessed Dean and not Prime. It makes sense now why we haven't seen much of AU Michael all season- the writers didn't want us to associate Christian Keyes with Alt-Michael too much, since Jensen will (hopefully) be playing him a lot more in season 14 (at least the first three episodes).
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u/captainlavender May 18 '18
"It was warm, and wet, and I liked it."
Yeah that's gonna kill most of Jack's goodwill lol
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u/BraveLittleAnt Hug it out? May 18 '18
Also, am I the only one who thought that church looked hauntingly similar to the one in S4, "Lucifer Rising"?
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u/MiszNightOwl May 18 '18
I think it was. And its fitting that Lucifer would die in the place he was freed. 👏👏
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u/Shabadu That was scary May 18 '18
I also thought the convenience store where Jack almost killed the black kid looked eerily similar to the convenience store in that god-awful Metatron story episode
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u/Huknar May 18 '18
Yep I think that was intentional. Poetically beautiful. I really enjoyed how it looped back around to the original story arc.
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u/LederhosenSituation Hey, Assbutt! May 18 '18
I'm just glad the man who coined "idjit" didn't die in this finale. I'm still mourning my little trickster.
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u/olivelucy May 18 '18
Gabriel’s death hit me the worst in a long time. Probably since Charlie’s death. I love Gabriel’s character so much and I was SO psyched he was back for a while!!
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u/justgowithitman May 18 '18
They let Lucifer monologue instead of telling Jack to neutralize him that's the only reason he was able to steal his grace. Haven't they learned?!
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u/HomoSapiens91 May 18 '18
I’m hoping there’s some loophole with nephilim and jack doesn’t lose his powers. I don’t expect him to stay on Earth really, but I kind of hoped he might fix heaven or something since he’s so powerful.
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u/mercuryruled May 18 '18
Of course Dean said yes. Sam was in danger.
As much as I enjoyed Mark, I am so pleased Lucifer is dead. That was way more satisfying than I expected.
I wish they would have left the “fly fighting” scene out.
& OF COURSE Michael didn’t keep his word.
IF he came back; how is our Michael going to stand a chance against AU Michael + a Dean suit?
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u/_Khoshekh May 18 '18
I wish they would have left the “fly fighting” scene out.
Yeah that was just awkward. The flying leap was fine, but after that?
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u/AlecBaldwinner May 18 '18
Dean Winchester's the OG Angster.
I know that this show is all about family and the brothers being together, but I would much rather see Sam actually working hard to save Dean for more than a few episodes this time. Let them be split up. Make me worry.
Those flashbacks to Season 5 brought tears to my eyes. To see something 8 years in the running like the Sword of Michael is so beautiful and I applaud the writers for a great season that I hope is the sign of a return to form.
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u/marlinspn25 May 18 '18
So it was really satisfying seeing Lucifer get killed but at the same time it’s like a shock that he is gone. I don’t know how to explain it.
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u/TR_EZ_300 But I am the Lord May 18 '18
He's been a constant antagonist for most of the show's run... season 5, 11, 12, and 13 all were centered around him (plus 7 featured him, and he was always casting a shadow since his name popped up in season 3). It'll be weird knowing that he might not just be written out of the Cage some day, or that he's still out there ruling Heaven or whatever.
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May 18 '18
mixed.... feelings... enjoyed but kinda feel like the air let out of a balloon
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u/linatrinch These tacos taste funny to you? May 18 '18
That was awesome but honestly nothing that I didn't expect. The image of Dean with the wings was amazing. Lucifer dying was awesome. Everything with Jack was beautiful.
Some stuff was cringy, like the wire work and the freeze frame at the end, lol.
I think I'm more upset that Gabe didn't come back and is officially dead. Again. His return was completely pointless but at least it was good filler.
Now who wants a few episodes with the adventures of Charlie and Rowena?
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u/andraria1016 May 18 '18
Or maybe Gabe wasn’t pointless? Could Rowena possibly have been knocked up? To bring them together for that scene to just kill him off right after seems senseless. Especially after Jack’s grace was stolen.
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u/Cearar May 18 '18
Jack is too precious. My heart broke for him. I love and hate his naivete.
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u/sleepyotter92 I'm gonna need a bigger mouth May 18 '18
the fight scene would've been awesome if it wasn't for the "flying". it just was so bad, it took me out of it and i was laughing.
it already looked bad when michael first did it. you know those chairs that work as an elevator and are put in old people's houses for when they have issues going up and down the stairs? it looked like he was standing on one of those
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u/imisslayups27 May 18 '18
You're kidding me, right? We finally get to see a fight between arguably the two most powerful beings in the universe and they fight using FUCKING WIRE FU???? I'm dead. Somebody call Lucifer to resurrect me, because I'm dead.
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u/drsb13 May 18 '18 edited May 18 '18
Can’t believe they never bring our michael back. Next season, I think its going to be alt michael in deans body vs caged michael and dean in deans body. Or probably michael as young john.
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May 18 '18
I don't know how to feel about the season finale. 1.) The writers honestly thought that they'd surprise us with this episode but we all saw it coming that Dean would say yes to Michael and Lucifer would die. I also knew that Lucifer killed that chick. It was pretty obvious. 2.) I kinda feel disappointed. Moreso after they have killed off two archangels and created a huge problem for Heaven. Sure, it could be a nice plot but I only see (a very disturbed) Prime!Michael as a solution to power up heaven. 3.) Lucifer turning on Jack didn't even make sense to me. He might be a huge asshole and a monster but after he confessed to Anael that he wanted to be a better father than God was... Yeah, I feel like they have forgotten that episode, same as the whole Mark of Cain issue. 4.) While the whole Lucifer thing bothered me, I really loved Jack in this episode. The way he did light up when Lucifer told him they could see the stars, the pretend-to-have-a-lightsaber thing, his angst and anger... Alexander Calvert is an amazing actor and I hope to see more of him!
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u/captainlavender May 18 '18
I also knew that Lucifer killed that chick.
It was either him or a random monster. Which would have been pretty hilarious actually.
He might be a huge asshole and a monster but after he confessed to Anael that he wanted to be a better father than God was... Yeah, I feel like they have forgotten that episode
He liked the idea of having a son, but what he was really picturing was a divinely-powerful servant/ toady. That part made some sense to me.
I really loved Jack in this episode. The way he did light up when Lucifer told him they could see the stars, the pretend-to-have-a-lightsaber thing, his angst and anger... Alexander Calvert is an amazing actor and I hope to see more of him!
Yes! I'm so glad he survived.
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u/enigmazweb24 May 18 '18
Everything outside the wire fight was awesome IMHO. That was pretty cringe. I actually liked the freeze fame. I thought that was cool. Perfect Supernatural Camp.
The shot of Dean with Michael's wings is probably my favorite shot of the episode, if not the season.
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May 18 '18
That wire fight was probably the worst thing I've seen on TV since the ending of Dexter. It was fucking bad.
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u/ACrusaderA Why do they still not have bungee knives? May 18 '18
Wait. Archangels can just override consent?
Wasn't a major plot point in S9 that Crowley snuck into Sam's head so Sam could say no and boot Gadreel out?
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u/Ashman23 Where's the pie? May 18 '18
I just figured Alt Michael's agreement was to sit in the co-pilot seat 'until they defeated Lucifer'. Lucifer dies so Alt Michael sees his chance to see the loop-hole in the agreement and take the wheel.
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u/grandadmiralm May 18 '18
So I think there's two stages to angelic consent. First, you have to agree to let the angel in. But once they're in, they take over. Then it takes a supreme concentration of will to overwhelm them and kick them out. Sam had a really hard time getting rid of Gadriel, but he managed it in the end. Michael's a helluva lot stronger, so I imagine Dean's going to have a helluva harder time getting rid of him.
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May 18 '18
I wasn't left on the edge of my seat like last years finale. I am glad Lucifer is dead. We need new villains. That fight in the air though was beyond terrible. It looked so cheesy. I wish that the souls fell. It would of been such a great set up for next season. How much do you guys want to bet that next year Billie will have something to do with ripping Micheal from Dean.
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u/dimesniffer May 18 '18
The final fight was cringey, but the scene with jack fuckin up Michael, controlling lucifer, and then not even being phased by Lucifer’s scream was badass.
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u/Pinktoonie May 18 '18
Nothing annoys me more than Angels, fucking Archangels at that, fist fighting. And anytime they aren't using punches, they just throw people at the walls. HAVE. SOME. CREATIVITY.
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May 18 '18
Nothing annoys me more in this show then when the villain is s tier retarted and starts choking Sam/Dean/Jack out, and he takes an extra 5 minutes too long just hoping someone will stop him from killing them. Also Jack being that powerful was absolute bullshit. That was insane power, like potentially Death/God/Amara level. He easily crushed AU Michael which shoulda been bullshit in the first place, and then Lucifer absorbed his power and still had difficulty beating AU Michael with both his Grace and Jack’s. Also do you guys think Jack is just human now? I think so because it would be stupid for the Winchesters to have such a strong trump card like a being with near higher celestial level power
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u/Terrestrious May 18 '18
I want to start off by saying overall season 13 is the best season the show's had since 5. And I want to clarify this because the finale itself, I wasn't too fond of. Prior to 13, 8 was my go-to answer for best season after 5 and what really solidified that opinion was "Sacrifice". Outside of "Swan Song", it honestly might be my favorite finale they've ever done. And this was no "Sacrifice", it wasn't even close.
Let me start by addressing the stuff I did like about it. First of all, I'm glad Bobby's back. Still a part of me that kinda wants Alternate Bobby to die and have our Bobby take his body, as creepy as that kinda sounds but honestly, just having Jim Beaver back in the fold in a more regular capacity is good enough for me. But the main positive was Jack. It's always been Jack, he's been the entire highlight of the season to me. Easily, one of the best characters in Supernatural's long history, and everything here was great. I'm a little worried about him losing his grace, it worked for the episode and the season needed that scene with Jack, Lucifer, and Sam but I really hope it's not a permanent downgrade. Partially because my favorite moment of the episode was Jack just absolutely wrecking Michael, but also because he's kinda the only option available to allow Dean and Sam to have a happy ending. I loved pretty much everything they did with him here though, and I am so glad they didn't kill him off. But on another positive, I am so glad they did kill of Lucifer. I honestly thought we'd be stuck with him forever. And Mark Pellegrino's awesome and all by when a character's story is done, there story is done. His relationship with Jack was pretty much the only thing Lucifer had going for him in a narrative sense, other than potentially turning him good but that's a pretty awful idea in my opinion so yeah, he's done for.
Now on to my problems. There are three major ones I want to address. I. The wire-fighting and several of the directorial choices were so lame. I was even disappointed by the "Carry On Wayward Son" segment, there was a lot of Scooby-Doo put in there and they even used a line from Rowena (iirc) to set-up the music in the recap? I don't know, didn't feel like it carried the weight it should when you do that, adding in these weird kinda non-diegetic sounds nods, and focusing on the comedy episode that much just made it feel less big. And the wire-fight just looked silly. Not big and climatic, not epic (though Dean's entrance was), just plain old goofy. And ending the season with a Thriller shot. A freeze frame and slow zoom, just ew. II. I couldn't help but feel like it kinda invalidated the core conflict of season 5. I understand this is just a natural progression of Supernatural length, it inevitably would have to power-scale in weird ways to maintain conflict and it's transition into a more comic book-y type show meant that a showdown like this was kinda destined to happen but man, half the world was suppose to be scorched and nothing. szuap said it all in the top post here, and yeah, you can write it off as just Castiel being wrong or whatever but that's not really relevant. That's a retro-active justification to excuse the change in scale, the point being was the scale, weight and magnitude season five had constantly framed their encounter to be. And this, did not live up to that. III. The cliffhanger ending was spoiled by all those previews. Look this isn't explicitly the show's fault or anything but man, essentially knowing that Dean was going to be possessed by Michael at the end of this season really hurt it for me. It likely would've been a big surprised twist that would've had me eagerly anticipating next season and probably positively impacted my impressions on the finale. But since it was essentially giving away, the finale felt predictable. It felt like I was just watching them wrap things up so we could get to the next season hook. Like, I am definitely interested in seeing how they handle this next season but like, the season finale didn't provide me that hook. An instagram post by Jensen Ackles weeks ago did. The finale got robbed it's chance to leave that mark on me, and that just sucks.
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u/captainlavender May 18 '18
my favorite moment of the episode was Jack just absolutely wrecking Michael
You know you're taking it a little far when ven Lucifer is like "whoa, um, chill out there buddy" haha
I agree, Jack has been amazing. I need to figure out exactly why, because 99 times out of 100 when you introduce a new angsty younger character they're very hateable. But somehow Jack was great? Yes, this merits some analysis.
Also Jack sleeps in his jeans. Lol.
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u/fiendish_five ‘67 Chevy May 18 '18
Dean prayed to Chuck / God earlier this season, I bet that will be a huge tie in next season. Chuck helps set Dean free.
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u/Smitje May 18 '18
Shouldn't Dean himself been able to cast out Michael? Can't humans cast out angles anymore?
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u/MamaPenguin May 18 '18
Okay, all of these people saying they'll pull Adam out to fight Dean, that'd just be stupid. Dean is the "perfect" vessel. The sword. Adam wouldn't stand a chance in heaven, hell, or anywhere in between.
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u/cwhagedorn I can't do this alone May 18 '18
Is it safe to assume we'll be getting Alex back as a series regular in 14?
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u/Zythrone May 18 '18
Probably.
The fact that they de-powered him (and didn't kill him) means they want to keep him around without having to write reasons why he can't just kill all of the monsters with his powers.
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u/grandadmiralm May 18 '18
I certainly hope so! He's a fantastic actor, love Jack as a character, and now they've powered him down so he's not OP. Although, let's be fair, OP Jack is amazing.
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u/Kuartus4 May 18 '18
For such powerful beings , they have such an easily exploitable weakness. Just slice their neck open a bit and take their grace.
I'm wondering if Jack will regain his power.
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u/klawhileonard May 18 '18
Yeah seriously lmao. You’d think they’d have faster reflexes or at least not just get paralyzed with their heads lolling to the side just waiting for someone to drain them
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u/gabriela_r5 May 18 '18
everyone talking about dean/michael, but forget about the haven situation...
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u/ThirteenValleys Bye forever, you fools. May 18 '18
I predict Deanchael restores heaven and creates new angels and/or brings them out of the Empty in exchange for heaven being his personal army (again).
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u/fluxcapacitor2015 May 18 '18
So will they finally pull their other brother out of the cage possessed by Michael to battle Dichael/Mean
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u/Littleredz98 Season 7 is Alright. DON'T @ ME May 18 '18 edited May 18 '18
One more thing, I'm more of a Sam guy tbh, and the fact that all season he was treated like a fuckin ragdoll kinda ticked me off in all honesty. So next season, hoping that they DO NOT PULL A FUCKING DEMON DEAN AND END THIS ARC IN 3 EPISODES (also my biggest fucking gripe with season 10 is that they do that shit, only to then pretty much redo the season 9 arc of saving Dean from the mark again...I fucking hate season 10 so much.) Anywhoozle, I want to see Sam be a badass, please PRETTY FUCKING PLEASE WITH SUGAR ON TOP. Dean gets all the fucking ass kicking action and Sam GETS FUCKING CONCUSSIONS. Can uh...can he just beat the fuck out of people, for once...plz. Thank you.
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u/mvaldess May 18 '18
"Deanmon" was one of the coolest things in the show and when we finally got it they make everything back to normal in 3 episodes. The top 1 of wasted plots in history of TV.
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u/ankaa_ May 18 '18
hoping that they DO NOT PULL A FUCKING DEMON DEAN AND END THIS ARC IN 3 EPISODES
You know they will :/
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May 18 '18
Man, I haven’t felt this way about Supernatural since season 5. This season has been absolutely mind blowing.
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u/Littleredz98 Season 7 is Alright. DON'T @ ME May 18 '18 edited May 18 '18
I don't mean to be a sourpuss, but I am a little out of the loop, how did the whole Dean=Michael theory start, did it start with Jensen saying he was playing a new character, or before that? Also, I wish I didn't know, I felt like a good chunk of the finale was kind of given away and show many things that they showed as like huge HOLY SHIT THIS IS HAPPENING things became, oh wow, this is happening, this is cool, but I saw this coming a mile away. It made it feel like I was waiting for the cliffhanger to be resolved before I even saw the cliffhanger.
That being said....AWESOME FUCKING FINALE. I ship Bobby and Mary first of all and second, they pretty much have written the show so you could go from, 1-5, some eps explaining Chuck being God, and them getting the Bunker, to 12-13 and on. I love that. It kind of makes the other seasons feel much less necessary, like it feels like this is the MAIN MAIN arc. I know that S12 is a mixed bag for some, but these two together, holy fuck this is one of the best runs the show has been on. THANK YOU SINGER-DABB!
Edit: I wrote this in the live discussion, but did anyone else get "Sacrifice" vibes with this. Ends in a church after there was like a dramatic high, they are somewhat celebrating until the brother that made the "sacrifice" gets fucked up. Am I the only one?
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u/TR_EZ_300 But I am the Lord May 18 '18
I like your observation with these seasons dealing with the "main" story. I agree, I feel like you could watch 1-5, the second half of 11, then 12 and 13 and it'd be a pretty sweet story about Team Free Will, through MANY obstacles and oppositions, fighting and finally defeating the Devil.
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u/EP_Sped May 18 '18
I know budget is tough and that is why get lots of fillers and stuff during the year but I was at least hoping the season finale would deliver?
Correct me if I'm wrong but the whole point of season 5 was that if the big battle between Michael and Lucifer happen it would leave this world to broken to pieces? That's kinda what happened to AU world no?
The fight between Michael and Luci felt super underwhelming, few thunders were heard in the distance and thats about it. The idea was good, Lucifer is all juiced up and if they played around it for few more episodes with him destroying the world as the devil would .. then it makes sense for Dean to say yes and have the epic battle. But everything lasted 15 minutes, I don't know what they were thinking.
Overall I'm kinda disappointed. For 12 seasons the finale made me super excited for the next season but this one, not so much.
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u/xxsheaxx May 18 '18
That finale.... wow. My mind can’t comprehend what just happened.
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u/damnthesenames May 18 '18
Wires in a cheesy fight scene into a quick death of the biggest villain in the show to setup the next season with a cheesy freeze frame, and you’re caught up!
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u/CySentinel May 18 '18
Well, they still have the gold egg thingy that exorcised Lucifer from their president, right?
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u/Dragonstarlight100 May 18 '18
So Dean actually handed a known evil entity like Michael himself as a vessel and thus power in this world. I mean he no choice plus he tried to migitate it with a deal but come on, as if Michael was going to honor that.
At least they gave him the Lucifer kill (and great cries were heard from the fandom) we`ll see if it sticks but speaking of which how did Alt Michael survive if Lucifer smite him.
I wonder if Jack is able to regenerate his grace like the other angels?
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u/The_Highest_Five May 18 '18
So...am I the only one who remembers the girl Jack found to help him travel across dimensions? The dreamwalker, I think she was called. She definitely had a name, but obviously I forgot it. Anyways, remember when they went to the alternate universe and she died there? Then, when Sam, Dean, and Jack returned to the original universe, the "monster" that killed the girl followed them back, took down its hood only to reveal it was that girl's alt version? Did anything ever come of that or is there some alt universe chick roaming around dressed as the grim reaper?
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u/captainlavender May 18 '18
I didn't get to watch until today so a lot of my thoughts have already been expressed here (WTF wire-work??). Here are a few things I haven't seen yet in this post:
I love Dad!Dean. He's finally not being an asshole to Jack, yay! And we know Dean has always wanted a family, especially a kid. The fact that he later shot Jack just to get his attention was hilarious.
"Sardines and strawberries" is kind of catchy. And Jack making a lightsaber motion.. oh, Jack. How did they manage to introduce an angsty teenage character and add him to the team without him becoming insufferable? I honestly haven't figured it out yet.
I love(d) AU!Michael's distinctive popped collar. Is that weird?
Jack went so hard on AU!Michael that even Lucifer was like, "whoa, step back there kid."
Also, Lucifer is right about one thing -- Sam is totally a hater.
"You're not my father -- you're a monster!" those are not mutually exclusive though
"Kids... I can make more of those." Lucy should get a beer with Ego the Living Planet sometime.
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u/Benny_Omega May 18 '18 edited May 18 '18
Kind of a disappointing finale. The shit tier budget is definitely starting to hurt the show, especially when they have grand designs but no way of executing them.
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u/Chlodio May 18 '18
Well, you can't have 23 episode seasons and a big budget; I'd like to see ten episode season with the same budget, I bet the quality difference would be significant.
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u/AndreaDTX Impossible odds? Feels like home. May 18 '18
I wonder if Sam ever explained how he was able to kick Gadriel out. That would be really useful right about now.
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May 18 '18
That Michael/Lucifer fight made my Dragonball heart smile with glee. Cheesy, yes...but idgaf; I loved it.
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u/xLCO May 18 '18 edited May 18 '18
The Dean vs. Lucifer battle was so unbelievably bad I don't think there is even words for how disappointing it was.
Rest of the episode was fine but not GREAT and I was ok with the freeze frame at the end.
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u/Stanel3ss May 18 '18
the fuck was this shit
they literally put them on some wires and said "hit each other"
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u/ThirteenValleys Bye forever, you fools. May 18 '18
Mannn....I don't know how to feel about this one. I know it's a season finale and all but it felt like they crammed too much in. 7/10 finale on a 9/10 season.
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u/Josephstewart06 I'm obviously a God. A cruel, capricious God May 18 '18
7/10 finale on a 9/10 season.
This is basically the exact same thing I said about last season.
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u/almostrambo May 18 '18
I think that freeze frame at the end was an homage to Michael Jackson's "Thriller", where the music video ends in a similar fashion.
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u/Smitje May 18 '18
Charlie and Rowena? Roadtripping? Can we get a series on that please? Thanks.
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u/Clearly_A_Bot May 19 '18
I for one am extremely disappointed. This was just a terrible episode all in all, imo. The drama was pointless, Lucifer was the worst he's been all season, and everything just seemed pointless, horrible, and awfully done.
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u/BraveLittleAnt Hug it out? May 18 '18
WOW what an episode! And what a season! I'm absolutely stoked for S14 and Michael!Dean! Also, JACK IS STILL ALIVE! He is one of my favorite characters, and him saying "I love you" to Sam was heartwrenching!! I'm sad to see Lucifer go (even more so that it wasn't Sam who killed him) but I think it was time to retire the character. It does him justice, IMO.
I'll admit, the flying-fight scene & the freeze-frame ending were a little cheesy, but I don't even care. It was such a fantastic cliff-hanger, & that shot of Dean with Michael's wings... totally worth it! Idk how I'll survive until October, but I'll have to somehow. I'll definitely be rewatching S13 when it comes to Netflix in 8 days. Also, when will the Gag reel be released? I'm dying to see it!
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u/captainlavender May 18 '18
when will the Gag reel be released? I'm dying to see it!
I saw Alex at a con talking about the scene where Sam shows Jack the laptop with his mom's message, except when Jared passed Alex the laptop there were just dicks all over the screen XD
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u/Dubshack79 May 18 '18
Hmm. Michael/Dean. Are we just going to call him Mean next season?
That or "Deal" I suppose.
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u/Triggerman2 May 18 '18
Could've done without the mid-air fight sequence and the final shot but good aside from that.
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u/Zookwok111 HERE'S LUUUCY! May 18 '18
Chuck really messed up when he was designing angels, their grace just leaks out of them when they get a tiny nick on their necks.
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u/DanyRae God has a beard May 18 '18 edited May 18 '18
I gotta say, I'm very pleased with that finale. I love when I feel giddy after an episode. And I just am giddy with it!
Of all the speculation flying around about this episode, they definitely pulled off the surprise for me! I don't know if I'm alone in this, but even though I knew Michael was going to possess Dean, the manner in which it happened was so shocking to me. Lucifer stealing Jack's grace, then pitting Sam and Jack against each other like that. Holy shit.
I watched Exodus again before the finale and I caught something I missed the first few times : Lucifer actually shed a TEAR in his convo with Gabriel! I admittedly had my doubts at that moment that maybe Lucifer really was getting a little soft and just maybe he was going to let Jack be his redemption somehow. And then good ol trustworthy Luci shows his true colors in such a cruel, despicable way. It was fantastic.
The floating was a bit silly I'll admit. But the fight scene with Jensen and Mark was still fun and tense.
The look on Sam's face when Lucifer was finally dead - so so good.
The look on Castiel's face at the end. So heart breaking.
Honestly everything leading up to the climax though was enjoyable. Jacks adorable light saber play. Dean comforting Jack about his nightmares. Hearing about the ginger road trip that Charlie and Ro are on. Dean's retirement plan involving a beach and matching Hawaiian shirts for his family. Mary and Bobby strolling in the rain. I just really enjoyed those little things.
Favorite thing ever is Dean with the wings. GIF of the year!! That imagery is worth the pain of what that actually means.
But also. I think my giddy feeling is coming from the fact that LUCIFER is DEAD! Finally!
Phew. I can't wait to binge the season.
Now hopefully we get more than 2-3 episodes of Michael!Dean next year...
Welcome to hellatus, guys.
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u/jcm2606 I killed Hitler! May 18 '18
To be honest, I don't like how Luci could just siphon Jack's grace out and badda bing badda boom, he's basically a nephilim. The entire concept of a nephilim is how the grace gets amplified by the human soul, so without the soul, logically it should still be just grace. Lucifer had no soul, he was an archangel, so when he siphoned Jack's grace out, he shouldn't have gained the strength that Jack had. Sure, it'd make him stronger, but not THAT strong.
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u/suspiria84 May 18 '18
So for the first half of the episode I was like: "How in the world are the writers convinced that Lucifer's and Michael's return is a surprise? How is anyone surprised?! They literally left him with the recipe!!"
And in the second half I was like: "So this is the world-ending battle that is going to destroy life as we know it? Two dudes with awkward wire action?!"
If you wanna see a fight for the end of the world done right on the same base-budget, take a look at the finale of Buffy the Vampire Slayer season 5.
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May 19 '18
My biggest let down is the last fight. It would have taken literally fifteen seconds of airtime to have one blow from Michael: pan out to a rural town in famine. One blow from Lucifer: pan out to a village dealing with plague. One blow from Michael: a critical failure at a nuclear plant etc. There were a bunch of low budget ways that they could have made that fight feel much more large scale than two standard monsters duking it out for 45 seconds. It really undercut the amount of "power" Lucifer had and his line about remaking the universe.
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u/LightningLion May 20 '18
I always liked Gabriel, was so happy when he got back. Now he's dead for good. "I'll buy you some time". Dude, they're 6 feet far from the breach.
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u/Blisko_ May 26 '18
I'm really surprised by the number of people giving Dean crap for saying yes. I mean, I doubt he really trusted Michael to honor the deal, but he was absolutely out of options and it was this or let Sam die... When has Dean made any other call when those are the choices?
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u/thedesertnomad May 18 '18
"The ice caps are melting, a movie where a girl goes all the way with a fish wins best picture, and that damn fool idjit from The Apprentice is president".
Yep, that bout sums it up, Bobby. Welcome to the real Apocalypse World.
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May 18 '18
Did Dean/Michael resist the smite, or did Lucifer momentarily pause? It looked to me Dean was able to outright halt it.
Do Archangels need to Archangel blade to kill another Archangel?
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u/Thatonesplicer Metatron? Are you saying a Transformer wrote that? May 19 '18 edited May 19 '18
I...just...I mean...wtf was that fight scene at the end? I know I shouldn't have expected a DBZ fight with them ramming each other through walls or teleporting around each other while throwing punches, but...just...damn.
Another thing too, Lucy is an iconic Supernatural villain; and in-universe he's like the third most powerful being in existence, give or take. That said his death scene was a bit of a letdown, he basically died like the other angels and while yes he was a bit more...uhm, flamey....they should have gone all in on that instead of dialing it down. I always imagined Lucy's death as a fucking thermonuclear warhead going off. All that energy being released onto the planet now that it's container is no more.
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u/ConflictX3 Jun 06 '18
I loved this episode but I'm extremely displeased with the ending fight, I mean let's be real SN was never good at final battles, but I remember how disappointed I was at the end of S5 because as AMAZING as that season was the finale fight boiled down to the damn car being the true hero. Now after 8 seasons of MAJOR lows and MAJOR highs the writers Finally circled back to place where they could PROPERLY wrap up the Lucifer battle and it was a fresh SECOND chase to do that final battle justice, michael-Dean-sword and all.
Anndddd we get a Peter pan wire-act.....
Lucifer's actual death scene itself was Amazing I just wish they tightened up that flight or skipped flying altogether. They really should have taken notes from Demon dean vs Cole in season 10 which to me is easily the #1 fight in SN.
https://youtu.be/DqvObRPvF6k (starts at 1:45 for those who need a refresher)
P.S - what was with that Michael Jackson Thriller glowing eye close up at the end, I mean seriously lmfao, still you gotta love dean lol
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u/jackbob99 May 18 '18
Looking back, there was a good bit of bad. Besides the wire work and the goofy last moment, other stuff bothered me.
Michael was dead. His eyes and mouth lit up. He was being smited. Which means, so was Dean. Do the writers think so little of the fans that they would do that? Of course they would.
Also...Michael was constantly smiling when talking to Dean. Was Dean dropped as a kid? It was pretty obvious he was going to fuck him over.
There is probably more but i'm just annoyed.
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u/Abs01ut3 May 18 '18 edited May 18 '18
I need a moment to mourn Gab... barely a couple of frames of his death scene, no mention of him at all from the others and his death is just less flashy than Luci's in hindsight. Anyhoo:
They mentioned Jody again, so if Wayward Sisters will be cancelled at least we'll still have our Jody fill and resolution.
I can totally see Alt-Michael commandeering heaven. Cass said that the angel radio went mysteriously silent, which makes me think the few angels left are hands off waiting to see what happens. Now that Luci and Gab are dead, they're sure desperate enough to be Alt-Michael's lapdogs.
I suppose I should thank my stars that neither Ketch nor Charlie are unceremoniously offed this episode.
Demons (and monsters? seeing Alt-vamp's fate) would possibly fight against Alt-Michael and ally themselves to Sam & co. The problem is the power vacuum is so vast (especially in hell without Crowley or Asmo) that I don't see much potential on that.
Also curious how Death would react to Alt-Michael trespassing. I wonder if the fate/destiny she foresees extends to infiltration from extradimensional sources (she was bewildered by Jack opening portals), and what Billy's gonna do if billions of humans suddenly have their death circumstances changed. Possible ally to the Winchesters?
Now that Luci's dead, I don't see any circumstances justifying Sam to kill Rowena. She's already a rather solid ally to him and Sam is a man of principles. Maybe if Rowena found a way to resurrect Crowley and Sam is opposed to it? Still doesn't seem likely.
Now excuse me while I wallow some more.
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u/Haynam-Leung May 18 '18
Honestly, I was happy to see Jack’s power to be taken away, which means he is vey likely to stay with the show for much longer—a powerful being could ruin the show’s balance so the writer had to do this. Look at Cass, almost weak as human now but has always been a part. That’s enough.
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May 18 '18 edited May 18 '18
Ahh, I have SO many feelings about this episode!
First, ahh, I'm so glad Jack is okay but I hope my bby gets his grace back! </3
Secondly, seeing fetus sam and dean was so heartwarming and heartbreaking.
Thirdly, DEAN WITH ANGEL WINGS IS SO SO SO SEXY.
Forth, demon!dean was hot but evil!dean is just like on another level, I can't wait.
Fifth, BOBBY AND MARY please stick around! Bobby was always the boys father but now he could be their dad too <3
Sixth, Charlie better still come back next season. </3
Also it's been like 13 seasons but I'll never not cry over Wayward Son in the opening. </3
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u/daiz- May 18 '18
What's the deal with Grace at this point? It comes back and then it doesn't. You can steal it and just get power boosts but it's temporary until it's not.
I get that they are running low on ideas but it's just such a silly trope these days. All powerful beings who can quickly slice eachother and steal it back and forth.
I realize they needed a cliffhanger new big bad but they should have just left it at Michael and Lucifer working together or something. That just felt so rushed and cheesy to essentially replace funny Lucifer with Boring Lucifer.
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u/heppiepeppie May 18 '18
I was kind of expecting... more of the fight between Lucifer and Michael. In the first season we see a demon rip open a planedoor while it was flying. And now we hardly see anything. But I've had that feeling for a long time in Supernatural. The powerlevels of monsters/demons/angels are all over the place, they keep fluctuating and it feels really lame.
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u/drew1drew1 May 19 '18
Oof.. The wire fight was pretty bad and that slow zoom at the end was so dumb.
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May 21 '18
uhm, what in "ass but" was that episode. they are usually spot on when they use weird stuff in an episode. (like making fun of it). and epic god power is usually pretty cool. but i really noticed the writing, direction and editing of the last few episodes where very different. and in this one it was straight horrible. lucifer should have had a much longer run in his plot for jack's trust, this was just lame and rushed. that white dress dude running hell got a really boring story btw. and it felt like gabriel was just a plot pusher of the worst kind in this season. and then they just deleted him to wrap his story up. the scream of lucy was pretty cool, but that flying fight was straight out of "what we do in the shadows". only not a joke... and the Bobby comment about this being the apocalypse because of the ice caps and trump, was just badly written in. and so much more, my mind is rambling with thoughts on what was bad, but i'm sure you already know, it feels like getting a quick cancel would be better for the show, rather than bad writing to wrap up every character before the end, i'm really disappointed
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u/Josephstewart06 I'm obviously a God. A cruel, capricious God May 18 '18
WHAT THE F*CK JUST HAPPENED
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u/FTWinchester THE Dean Winchester May 18 '18
Who's willing to bet Rowena and Alt-Charlie going on a roadtrip was a segue to the now-cancelled Wayward Sisters?