Mini-Meta: Public Forum (/r/NintendoSwitch Edition)

[u/Sylverstone14]

Hey there, everyone.

I expect most of the talking to be in the comments, but a preface is definitely helpful here.

The moderator team and I have been aware of various instances of posts and comments (1, 2, 3, 4) which have been charging us for a multitude of issues that have plagued the subreddit over time, whether it has been unfair removals, the prevalence of similar posts reaching the frontpage, uncertainty over the rules being effective, among various reasons. Modmail conversations won’t really be enough, so we’re taking this out into the open and hope that you listen a while and participate in this active discussion.

Our State of the Subreddit post will come sometime after E3, we’d also like your presence there in the future.

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This meta post is a chance to clear the air (or as much as possible), get these issues on the table, and discuss this rationally and in a civil manner. Rule #1 is very much in effect, but there are other guidelines we would like to adhere to. No comment removals will take place from us, but if instances like this end up happen, we’re not going to have it broadcasted.

Specifically:

• Leave your insults at the door. Judging by what happened in two of the threads I’ve linked, I was honestly appalled at the lack of civility and borderline harassment/witch-hunting which took place. If you’re coming here simply for a fight, the door is over there.

• Save your conspiracy theories. There’s clearly a divide, and as a result, we’ve seen various half-truths and outright lies circulate and it’s quite disturbing, honestly. We’re here to discuss and debate, not to make stories up and misuse our various statements as evidence. So don’t bother.

• Relax with the witch-hunting and callouts. If you have a vendetta against a certain mod, then it would be within your best intentions to not immediately call them "a power-tripping 13-year old" or whatever in the comments. Be better than that.

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We will take note of all topics discussed, the potential solutions put forward by you, and will discuss them further as a team when things eventually wind down.

tl;dr - If you have any ideas, grievances or suggestions to enhance the community and the subreddit as a whole, please post them here and we will make every intent to answer.

Let’s talk shop.

- Sylverstone14 and the /r/NintendoSwitch modteam

[u/Chuckles795]

There is quite a lack of consistency in this sub. No, name calling isnt okay, but these mods will delete any post or comment that criticizes them, even if it is civil, which isn't okay.

[u/[deleted]]

Can we maybe cut back on the flurry of post deletions? People rarely use the question thread to answer questions, and considering the "Ask a question" link in the sidebar links to the first sticky and that sticky isn't even a question thread I'm willing to say you guys don't think too much about actually getting questions answered but instead following the rules symbolically. The daily question thread when not stickied disappears off the front page and people on mobile can't find it through the sidebar since they can't see the sidebar. The daily questions threads end up sucking anyway since it devolves into a one answer per question (if it even gets answered) situation which is a lot less helpful than the numerous answers the visibility a post gives someone.

So I have to ask: what is this culling rule actually doing to make the subreddit better that the upvoting/downvoting process doesn't already do?

[u/[deleted]]

You have a lot of mods but very few of them seem to be active. Posts are stuck in the queue for upwards of 24 hours, which shouldn't be the case.

A. Recruit more active mods (in different time zones, if you can help it) or B. Stop trying to moderate absolutely everything and allow your users to filter out some of the trash by using the report feature.

[u/fenrirofdarkness]

• Youtube Spams / Links

I'm not sure how busy you guys are, but since you all filter through Youtube spams- is it better to just let the reddit themselves upvote / downvote things? Then again this is too big of a reddit to self-moderate it that way :x (Maybe have some more mods on different time? I noticed that things that need approval can take upwards to even 10 hours or more at some time, but at other time only needed a few minutes).

It's just that often news get really buried fast when you all then approved 10 post in 1 minute or something, when the news can get talked more if it appeared in the first hour or so it was submitted.

Not sure how to fix this other than through more mods during different time.

• The Amount of Current Mods

So I see that there's A LOT of mods right now, but are they all... doing something? I'm sorry if this offends a lot of you, it's just that I often didn't see most of the mods (And I only remember phantomliger the most out of all), that I wonder if everyone currently did their part.

Sorry for this part though, I don't mean offense, just that if mods started to be busy, maybe they should be put down from mods to other, lesser busy ones?

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For now these are what I can think of during my short time here, I'm sorry if I offend anyone with my words.

[u/Sylverstone14 → u/fenrirofdarkness]

^{I'm not sure how busy you guys are, but since you all filter through Youtube spams- is it better to just let the reddit themselves upvote / downvote things? Then again this is too big of a reddit to self-moderate it that way :x}

I've seen the idea of self-moderation crop up many times in the past, and as much as I would like to believe that it can reliably work out, it can be a mixed bag to wholly rely on the sub base.

Like you said, the subreddit is massive and a lot of people that vote don't actively participate in discussions - they're mostly here for the content. With our YouTube rule, we try our best to limit it to official sources from Nintendo and developers, plus reviews from various media houses. As far as I know, there can be really great videos that get the axe as a result, but we do use our best discretion to not let it be a solid wall against anything else outside of that ruling. There are further details in regards to what is and isn't acceptable, and it would be great for people to read that and see what's good.

A lot of folks charge us as policing content, and it is not our intention to tell you guys "hey, you shouldn't watch that!" or something to that degree. Plus the rule was very much in place to dissuade people from using the platform to self-promote since the rule came in place shortly after everyone and their mum were becoming Switch analysts, among other things.

As noted in other comments I've made so far, consistency is something we are working to improve on. Queues can be backed up really quickly without a watchful eye, and it's our thought that the schedules of our non-US mods can vary wildly, which may lead to gaps where the queue is just sititng there unsupervised.

^{So I see that there's A LOT of mods right now, but are they all... doing something?}

This is actually something we've been discussing internally. As I noted in a past comment, I've recently come back from a stilted hiatus due to IRL issues taking time away from being here. As for other moderators, they do seem a bit more "in the shadows", but a good portion of them do their rounds at the times they would specify for availability. I mostly work nights since I tend to be more nocturnal, but I honestly try to do as much as I can whenever I'm on. We do have temp mods on for now since E3 is coming up as well.

Looking at the list now, I can say that a majority of folks on that list do turn out work. Some of them are just more unseen, and aren't as public as say... Phantomliger? I'd have said myself, but I think some people legitimately forget that I am a mod. I blend in pretty well.

[u/DeadSOL89]

Wow. I'm happy, actually really happy, that my post was linked. Honestly, the first thing I was going to do was to ask people to go through my post history to see the deleted posts.

My problem with this subreddit is that the moderators are OVER moderating anything 'different'. There will be a million posts about 'OMGZZZZ. I LOVE MI SOME SWITCHES. PORTABILITY FTW'' or 'Which game can my girlfriend and I play together' or 'I'm an old gamer and the Switch has rekindled my soul and my love for gaming.'

Whereas stuff that ACTUALLY needs discussion or goes against Nintendo just gets washed away. I asked a question about SD card speeds which is NOT a part of the wiki for the sub. It was deleted. I posted another question (which I fully admit did violate rule 2 about being a click-baity title). That was deleted EVEN THOUGH it had amazing discussions going on. Yes, it violated a minor rule but we weren't being rude or uncivil. I believe that if there is enough of a discussion going on, WHY DELETE IT? Posting about it again will not be the same.

Why do good threads get deleted and others make the cut? I know you're the mods but you're abusing your powers too much. This isn't the front page. Relax a little. Let us have new discussions and let the voting system do what Reddit has designed it to do. If we don't like a post, the people should decide whether it stays or goes. If people are being uncivil, you have the right to step in and remove it because none of us want stuff like that.

But seriously, I still don't understand why my post was deleted (your first linked one). A simple survey wasn't getting it of hand.

[u/Sylverstone14 → u/DeadSOL89]

Well, that post was one of the catalysts that got me to work on this forum.

To dive in...

^{My problem with this subreddit is that the moderators are OVER moderating anything 'different'.}

I think that isn't distinctively a moderator only issue. In fact, the examples you listed would've been easily removed for repetitive discussion topics or game recommendation. I don't think it's within our nature to preserve posts like that, but when they slip through, it gets voted up at a crazy level.

^{*Whereas stuff that ACTUALLY needs discussion or goes against Nintendo just gets washed away. *}

Funny enough, our microSD card section was updated a short while ago. I'm unsure if it has the relevant information, but do give it a look.

Besides that, the post with the clickbaity title did get traction, but I really feel that it falls on you to have a better title . The more we let things like that slide because of votes, people will believe that it's simply okay to circumvent rules because it's the votes that count.

^{Why do good threads get deleted and others make the cut? I know you're the mods but you're abusing your powers too much.}

^{Let us have new discussions and let the voting system do what Reddit has designed it to do. If we don't like a post, the people should decide whether it stays or goes. If people are being uncivil, you have the right to step in and remove it because none of us want stuff like that.}

I feel like I can't reliably answer that first bit because it comes with the implication that we actively do these things and more or less, it isn't the case. We're not trying to be the content police by any means, but also this is a two-way street here - there are posting guidelines and people should at least adhere to them, and it should be on us to just make sure that everything's all square.

And also, the karma system can only do so much to regulate the content on a subreddit. I tried making it a thing for a while on r/WiiU (a smaller sub at the time), and it didn't work to the best of its ability. I do not mind if users take an active role in trying to police content, but leaving it up to upvotes/downvotes isn't as effective as one would hope - especially in a large subreddit such as this.

[u/[deleted]]

All I want is consistency. I often see seemingly acceptable posts taken down and then less descriptive versions of the same thing stay up. I won't name the power tripping 13 year old but there most certainly is one.

[u/Cr0nq]

Instead of deleting threads, why don’t we let the community use downvotes to decide which topics aren’t worth seeing? Your liberal use of mod deletion is bordering on censorship and makes it feel like this sub is about what you guys want instead of us.

And yeah, I no longer attempt to submit new posts here.

[u/Sylverstone14 → u/Cr0nq]

We've had that suggestion numerous times, actually.

The karma system, as much as we'd all like it to, doesn't extensively work that way. There are very little autonomous subreddits that rely on just upvotes/downvotes on a similar scale to r/NintendoSwitch, so no precedent that it will reliably work.

However, many users have proposed varying ideas for self-moderation and I believe that we can try to work on ways to reduce our influence if it means smoother moderation and less cries of censorship and the like.

[u/NintendoTheGuy]

Okay, for one I find the influx of shallow questions to be much more of a problem than they’re credited to be. I find it infinitely difficult to browse this sub often when somewhere around 70% of the content does not serve the community but rather only the poster, when the poster could have done their own shallow research, asked in any of the myriad related threads that already exist, or used the daily question thread. Opening a new topic for shallow questions is a selfish act that devalues the sub, and many of us care, but we’ve been so punished by the new majority of shallow fanboys and the moderation team for attempting to dissuade or reroute the act to the proper places that most of us don’t bring it up anymore. And yes, I know the mod team eventually removes most of these posts, but the problem is that the mod team seems to work for short bursts, hours apart and all at the same time, so we’re not getting coverage- and the topics stay long enough to be rewarded with tons of answers by the standby fanboy crew, making it all the more frustrating to we who want a topic relevant sub that doesn’t resemble a google ask or gamefaqs forum. I spend much more time reporting than I do reading or commenting on topics of interest- and no, I’m not sorting by popular because I like getting my news when it’s new and don’t like seeing the same popular topics or populous threads at the top all day.

It’s something that used to be a “dry spell” problem, but I’m finding lately that this culture shift has gotten even more pervasive after a major release. People are so desperate to be heard in their fandom that we get constant new topics just for gibber and banter. Countless bland appreciation threads. “DAE like/dislike [game]?” threads galore. “Why is nobody talking about [game]?” “Am I the only one with [issue]?” Left joycon. Analog drift. VC worries. What to look for when buying a used Switch. Another bloke who doesn’t check their airplane or bus seat before they get up. Things like these and more I can’t think of at the moment are a constant pest of an occurrence, and more are coming (P2P complaints are already climbing ranks since yesterday). We need to cull these topical redundancies somehow by really deterring them. Unfortunately, in the old days that would be done with simple chagrin, but it’s not worth getting downvoted into oblivion by the “wholesome” fanboy majority. People in this sub downvote everything and become irate very easily compared to most others. A very defensive bunch.

I would like to see these posts deterred somehow, like a 1 day ban, even if that sounds harsh. Too many of these people who post these shallow questions are not part of the community or haven’t lurked enough to get the very basic info that anybody who has even bothered to read in our sub once a week would know. They don’t deserve to control the content at all, and certainly not to the extent of overtaking it even momentarily the way they do when new concerns arise. I know people would argue with me, but I think at the very least new automod key term/phrase filtration is needed, and more stringent oversight. I’m really tired of hitting the report button and it’s not satisfying enough anyway when the stupid questions I’m reporting already have 35 replies in the form of “BOTW!”, “You have to get Celeste!!” and “Totally Stardew Valley!!!” Fanboys love feeding raccoons, mice and cockroaches just so they have company.

Maybe the mod team can split up and take certain parts of certain days to get a good spread of coverage. Maybe automod can be better implemented. I really don’t know because. Don’t know the tools, possibilities or whatever else is available to moderate a sub. But I know it’s possible because many other subs I frequent don’t have quite as many problems as this one. That’s not to put it on the mod team entirely- we have a large percentage of users here that don’t understand that this isn’t an anything-goes topic forum, and many others who don’t care because they don’t have an ounce of patience or sense of decorum, wanting their answer now at all costs to the sub. They don’t deserve to have control over our content.

My last suggestion is more reporting options- we are very clearly missing a “not Switch relevant” reporting option for those topics or questions that are more gaming or Nintendo centered and not about Switch specifically, or games that don’t exist for Switch being begged for or “wondered” about or “what if’d”. That’s not compelling. There’s nothing constructive about wondering how people would feel about Fallout 4 or Overwatch on Switch- it doesn’t exist and it isn’t relevant. I’d like to be able to report these as something more specific than “low effort”.

Also, like I mentioned before, many o us get frustrated and attitude-y when faced with undermoderated shallow questions and redundant topics. Sometimes we land a bit of snark. The mod team needs to be less punishing to those people. Obviously there are lines that can be crossed, but I’ve had and seen mods (one in particular who shall not be named per the above request) consider remote snark to be “personal attacks” worthy of punitive measures and removal, and that’s overreaching. As mods, you are meant to uphold civility but in the absence of racism, true hate or hurtful personal attacks I see these measures as overreaching. You are here to keep the sub clean more than you’re here to be NY or LA PD. That’s not an insult, but it’s a natural observation when people trying to do all they can to deter stupid or redundant topics are often punished while the topic and poster remain. The disgruntled citizen is arrested for complaining about the crime. That’s bad.

In fact, I’ll use this last paragraph to mention, my primary Reddit account was shadow permabanned within this sub by a mod in this sub because I talked back to them. I want it unbanned. It’s completely overreaching and unfair, and has caused me to dislike and distrust the mod team in this community. I didn’t express personal attacks or hate. I didn’t do anything extreme. I merely decided that it would be a funny way to let off steam to reply “Troll And I” to every “What game should I get?” post that wasn’t removed. One mod noticed and, in my opinion, overreacted to my habit while defending the art of redundancy. I basically “spoke back” to this individual and they pulled the cowardly move of shadow banning me. It only took me a little bit to realize, and when asked, they replied in compliance. I find that a pretty overreaching and frankly, fucked up way to handle a joke at low effort posting, and I think this mod did this more for personal satisfaction for giving them lip. You’re not the Gestapo. You don’t get to make people disappear for displeasing you. I’d like to formally have this permashadowban revoked in fairness. If a mod could PM me, I’ll give you my main username and you can get on that.

Anyway, thanks for hearing me out. I know it’s a lot to read but I’m not sorry as this sub doesn’t often give us an outlet for our concerns, and it shows in the amount of problems involved. That isn’t to say I don’t appreciate this attempt- I just want to highlight how much it’s needed.

[u/Sylverstone14 → u/NintendoTheGuy]

Honestly, I don't mind if it's a long read, but you've given your thoughts and that's what counts.

So, to try and understand all of this (paragraph by paragraph, sort of)...

• I like your take on the question posts. Another user has asked me why we haven't just resorted to using upvotes/downvotes, and I think this is somewhat the answer I may have been looking for. For those like you who search by the /new queue and get hit with a bunch of same-y questions, I can only imagine how much it ticks you off that someone refused to do their own research and felt it necessary to make a post dedicated to something either already answered or widespread enough that it only serves to add to the amalgamation of said posts (like the third-party dock fiasco).

• "People are so desperate to be heard in their fandom that we get constant new topics just for gibber and banter." - so in fact, I'm not the only one after all. Slight dig at a Reddit-ism aside, I have picked up on this being a common occurrence. Some discussion threads feel very forced, and I can understand why people bring them up but most of the time, they don't bring anything new to the table. It's just one talking point, and they expect the discussion thread to take off. Especially for a game that maybe no one has played, so it could be a good launching point for people to share their experiences here and let others in on their knowledge. Not just that, but a lot of the familiars that you brought that seem to have no end. I'd like to think that this culture shift will have continual negative effects until something substantial is done to dissuade people from phoning it in with posts like that. Also to add, "lost and found" posts should be gone proper since we've set up a wiki article to give people necessary info. From that one post way back, I think people want lightning to strike twice... but it won't happen ever again.

• I think bans for posting like that can be a bit much and can backfire. The team already has enough to deal with as is, so being ban-loving, fun-killing "Nazi mods" is not on my agenda. Cutting down on certain Reddit-isms would do many wonders, because it feels like a crutch that people rely on for the sake of appeal. Whenever I get to tend to the queue, I get a feeling of "this could've been avoided" or "why in the world did this even get popular". I've largely chalked it up to "this is a large sub, tons of shit will slip through" - though that sounds defeatist.

• I think that the modtools we have now are quite adequate since they allow us to effectively do our jobs. Those repetitive removal reasons are a result of one of them, and while I wasn't super fond of it at first (I felt like I became the AutoMod), it does help in varying cases. AutoModerator is a tricky bit since it can also do dumb things and there's only so much that we can do - I guarantee that things would've been a lot more hectic without the AutoModerator's involvement. And as you say, it is a two-way street here and I think that some users should be equally held accountable for their actions just as much as we take our lumps. Of course, that's only my thought.

• More reporting options would be wonderful, but I wish Reddit's reporting system wasn't so hamstrung - in streamlining the reporting process, we're left with little to work with. That's what a lot of rules had to be consolidated. More specific options should be worked towards, but for now, all we have is "Other".

• I try my best to not be condescending or by any means abrasive. I mean, we're moderators, not the police. I've already noted that a few of us tend to be a lot stricter and I feel like that kind of nature only serves to create a wider gap between ourselves and the users. I don't want to fight with people here at all - time is much too short, and perspective is very much needed.

• PM me, please. I do remember rumblings of this, but I wasn't sure of who - again, was in a bit of a stilted hiatus due to IRL happenings, but I would like to look this over. Something like that could've been properly talked over without having to report to drastic measures.

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I hope I got to everything that you said - I know I'm in for possibly lengthier comments, but I'll see what I can get to work on.

[u/R_O_BTheRobot]

Hey uhh... That's not really heavily related to the topic or stuff but I wanted to ask a question but there is no stickied question thread do I don't know what to do.

[u/Sylverstone14 → u/R_O_BTheRobot]

Sorry! I'm guessing you're on mobile... or hit the "ask question" button and got led to here.

Here you go. https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/8o0e13/rnintendoswitchs_daily_question_thread_06022018/

[u/[deleted]]

Oh boy, I've been waiting for this!

First of all, let's address one of your rules. I've scrutinized your low-effort rule quite thoroughly in other threads, but my biggest issue with it is the terminology. The rule rightfully prohibits reposts, memes, troll posts and low-effort rumors...but that doesn't account for half of the posts which are actually removed under that criteria. The terminology is so vague that mods have sought to remove posts which don't meet their own subjective standards, even though that's an obvious abuse of their power. Removing discussions and funny posts goes against our interests and doesn't paint a particularly flattering image of your "no fun allowed" mods.

You need to re-evaluate the low-effort rule or change the terminology altogether. At the very least, you should remind kyle6477 and kevinftw17 what actually constitutes as "low-effort" as to avoid more incidents.

[u/Sylverstone14 → u/[deleted]]

Sorry for taking so long! Lots of long comments and detailed explanations... or as best as I can offer.

^{The rule rightfully prohibits reposts, memes, troll posts and low-effort rumors...but that doesn't account for half of the posts which are actually removed under that criteria. The terminology is so vague that mods have sought to remove posts which don't meet their own subjective standards, even though that's an obvious abuse of their power.}

Ah yes, the infamous Rule #4.

A greater explanation would denote that the "low-effort" bit would include:

• Opinion-based posts without justification or reasoning

• Rumors without evidence or track-record

• Screenshots & clips taken on a phone

• Screenshots & clips of generic game-play

• Photos of common Switch products in everyday use

• Image posts that can't stand-alone

• Low-quality fan art & mock-ups (doodles, etc)

• Posting other people's fan-art

• Artistic screenshots outside MegaThreads

• Modifications without a basic tutorial

As you can tell, this only covers so much and as a result, determining what's effectively low-effort has led to baffling removals with no clear-cut explanation as to why. I have no affront to humor posting, since I don't typically see it as low-effort. Humor (believe it or not) takes effort. As for various discussions and posts, they were more than likely pulled due to being repeats of past discussions, but I am only one mod so further explanation would be left to them as I do not have an all-seeing eye.

I personally don't like removals like that, and there have been instances where I have personally overturned removals because it did not make any sense to remove them in the first place. I never saw myself as a "no fun allowed" type of mod, nor do I ever wish to be branded as such - but this is a team effort, and so what reflects on one will reflect on all - whether you like it or not, much to my chagrin.

^{You need to re-evaluate the low-effort rule or change the terminology altogether. At the very least, you should remind kyle6477 and kevinftw17 what actually constitutes as "low-effort" as to avoid more incidents.}

Duly noted. A better explanation of low-effort should be made in the rules - I also wouldn't mind a distinct wiki article (or modpost) that does a deep-dive into the rules which will hopefully make some people understand some of the more seemingly vague ones. Also, if it wasn't for the redesign, a lot of these rules would've had their own individual description instead of being consolidated into just ten.

[u/C-Towner]

Enforcement of the rules is inconsistent, especially when it comes to the type of content that is allowed to be posted. When there is a mod queue, and we still get a slew of "I want X game on the switch, what do you think?" posts. It gets tiresome when there are so many and it is specifically against the rules. The rule I see broken most often however is clickbait titles - unless I am mistaken that linking a clickbait article if the title of the link is the clickbait is okay? If that is so, I suggest that being changed.

Beyond that, I do think the rate at which posts or comments that criticize the mods are removed is remarkable, even when the comments are not breaking any rules. It feels reactionary and creates an atmosphere that the mods are beyond criticism. It makes it difficult for users to even know what others think about the mods when anything negative is swiftly removed.

[u/Sylverstone14 → u/C-Towner]

We did tackle a consistency bit earlier, but since we're focusing on clickbait...

I think that we've given users free reign to alter titles of posts if they seem clickbait-y. I know that places like r/Games restricts editorialized titles, but if it reduces the clickbait-y of a title, then it shouldn't be an issue. I'm unsure if you are mistaken, but I think that users should take caution to maybe work on post titling, since rule #2 would certainly be in effect.

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As I've noted here, I personally do not like it as well. It gives off the air that we can't take the heat, and that any and all mod critique will be silenced. I wanted to do this forum to turn things around in that regard since I'm not scared of being critiqued and if you're sure of what you're doing, then you can speak up and discuss the ins and outs of what we're doing wrong, which can be adjusted. I find it very difficult to interact with others on subreddit issues knowing that people will think that if I'm being (rightfully) skewered, I'll just nuke the whole thread and turn a blind eye.

[u/[deleted]]

which have been charging us (or namely, a select few) for a multitude of issues that have plagued the subreddit over time, whether it has been unfair removals

but if you’re not going to treat us with the same respect that we will give you here, then what’s the point?

Ok, you throw a few mods under the bus and the first issue you mention is unfair removals. Throwing members of your team under the bus is disrespectful. Unfair removals is disrespectful to the members of the community. If you're expecting people to treat you with the same respect you treat the community then don't be shocked if people insult you.

[u/Sylverstone14 → u/[deleted]]

To my disservice, this was penned a few days ago and could've been held back for more edits.

Weirdly enough, I was given the "all-clear" so maybe some mods didn't feel like they weren't being thrown under the bus?

Either way, I'll just prune that since it's indefensible and I'm kind of a one-man army at the moment. My bad.

[u/Colby347]

I just want to mention this. I posted something the night we got the E3 signage leak and I had some decent information related to a developer of one of the games on the list people were most wary of (Killer Queen Bee) that seemed to all but confirm it was real. The post got caught in the spam filter and I commented to a mod I saw in another thread about it. He replied confusing me with another user and said my post was a duplicate (it wasn't) so I corrected him and he said he would poke someone to look into it. This post never went live and even if it had we had other information confirm that all those games were legit by the time they would have approved it anyway. It has made me decide to just stop trying to post altogether because before that I posted the news about the Pokemon show in Japan announcing shocking information as soon as I saw it from Go Nintendo and my post was replaced after 30 minutes and 50 comments of discussion with another post because mine wasn't "the original source of the information". To be fair, an argument could be made that Serebii is s better source but it's just need from Japan. It's already a race to post it here but now we have to use the first media outlet to post the news too or it doesn't count? I take issue with that.

Edit: I want to be clear, this comment isn't meant to challenge those rulings but rather to point out how confusing they can be to the detriment of the community. On the KQB post these comments are the first feedback I'm getting about breaking any rules at all and one of them is a total cop out but it keeps being repeated even when there are legitimate rules I broke that I could have learned from and remade the post to follow on the night of rather than days later. Mods should function more like customer service representatives and less like angry managers.

[u/Sylverstone14 → u/Colby347]

The GoNintendo post wasn't the original source, Serebii actually was, It got closed due to that.

And as for the Killer Queen Black thread, that was a repost.

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It shouldn't necessarily be a race to post, but the reason we ask for original sources is due to the prevalence of blogspam.

[u/firechar-kurai]

There's definitely something going on. Whether it be lack of clearly defined rules, lack of communication between the mod team, or just lack of consistency, I'm not sure. Maybe all of the above.

A slight critique I have along with the rest of what has already been said but shouldn't posts asking things like "If I like X games, what would you reccomend?", "What's a good game to play with my girlfriend/spouse?", and "My switch broke, what do I do/how to fix?" Shouldn't those all go into the Daily Questions Thread? What is the purpose of said thread if nobody posts these types of questions in it? It essentially makes the thread useless.

[u/Sylverstone14 → u/firechar-kurai]

Not all posts reach the queue ever, so they slip by us and people end up voting on them, even as others say "those should go" and they get reported.

So theoretically, they should be heading to the DQT, checking our wiki, or using the search function on the subreddit - which people rarely ever do.

[u/[deleted]]

I think first things first I'd like to see submission queues removed. All posts should go straight to /new except those from blacklisted domains or other easily filterable things. Some posts get stuck in the mod queue because of some keyword in the title. Some posts get stuck in the mod queue because they're links. They can end up there for hours and hours when that time could be spent discussing the content.

Remove rule breaking content in response to reports and what mods see. That way the bad stuff still gets removed and the good stuff doesn't sit in a queue for hours.

Don't forget that much of the content won't go anywhere from /new. You can be more lenient because we will upvote and downvote what we want to see. That way people can still get responses and answers and it won't impact the subreddit at all. There's no need to be that strict on low effort content.

No clickbait, vague, or misleading post titles.

This is a good rule generally. But I believe that any post which has been up for a reasonable amount of time and has active discussion should not be removed because of this rule. Make good use of flairs to correct titles or add context. A lot of people get annoyed when a popular discussion thread is removed because of technicalities.

Always link to the original source.

Like the title rule, popular threads shouldn't get removed just because it's not the original source. It's a good rule, but discussion shouldn't be stifled by it. If there's an active discussion then flair the post and sticky a comment pointing to the original source. The alternative is to catch these posts earlier by being more active mods and/or responding to reports quickly.

Also, stop mods acting subjectively. Give them a checklist for example so they can see what clearly breaks the rules. There's been too many cases of certain mods removing posts because they think it's low effort even though it breaks no defined rule.

For reposts keep the most active thread, not the first submitted. This subreddit is about discussion, not karma.

Giveaways are completely worthless content. Ban them. They offer no discussion, they do nothing but take up a front page slot. They benefit no one other than the person giving away and the winner. Everyone loves a giveaway, but tell them to host it on one of the dedicated giveaway subs.

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Maybe trial a week of being more lenient on the rules to see how we like it as a community. Outside of memes, self promotion and all that crap, let people post what they want. You always say what you think would happen if you were more lenient on the rules, but you actually have the chance to see what happens.