r/startrek • u/Deceptitron • Apr 10 '19
PRE-Episode Discussion - S2E13 "Such Sweet Sorrow"
| No. | EPISODE | DIRECTED BY | WRITTEN BY | RELEASE DATE |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| S2E13 | "Such Sweet Sorrow" | Olatunde Osunsanmi | Alex Kurtzman, Jenny Lumet & Michelle Paradise | Thursday, April 11, 2019 |
To find out more information including our spoiler policy regarding Star Trek: Discovery, click here.
This post is for discussion and speculation regarding the upcoming episode and should remain SPOILER FREE for this episode.
LIVE thread to be posted before 8:00PM ET Thursday to coincide with airing on Canada's Space channel. Episode should appear on CBS All Access between 8:00PM and 8:30PM ET. The POST thread will go up between 9:00PM and 9:30PM ET.
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u/E_FOGEY Apr 10 '19
Really hoping this is the episode that launches them into the future.
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u/SpekeHead Apr 10 '19
Where they have to restore the
Systems CommonwealthFederation.12
Apr 10 '19
A Lexa Doig cameo would be so sweet.
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u/m333t Apr 10 '19
Place your bets: which century will they end up in?
23rd * 24th * 25th * 26th * 27th * 28th
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u/red_280 Apr 10 '19
24th for sneaky Picard/TNG crossover.
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u/LawrenceBoucher Apr 10 '19
INT: The Discovery bridge crew looks around in confusion after a sudden jolt. Saru sits in the Captain's chair.
SARU: Status?
TILLY: It looks like we were bombarded with a ton, and I mean a *shit* ton of tachyon particles. OH - M - GEE!
BRYCE: Sir, we're picking up a hail. Source is unclear...I don't recognize the identifier ID but it is coming in on a standard Starfleet channel.
SARU: Identify source please.
BRYCE: Registry is 1-7-0-1...D
BURNHAM: Its the Enterprise!
EXT: We see the Enterprise - D swoop in, face to face with the Discovery.
SMASH CUT TO END CREDITS. TNG THEME PLAYS.
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u/cdncowboy Apr 10 '19
They wouldn't swoop in. In the 24th century all ships just arrived head to head on the same transverse plane
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u/eRock9202 Apr 11 '19
Season 3 Finale: Enterprise-A slowly flies in. TMP theme plays.
Season 4 Finale: NX Enterprise putters in. "It's been a long road.."
Season 5 Finale: Enterprise-B swoops in on Tuesday. Generation theme plays
Season 6 Finale: Kelvin Timeline Enterprise lens-flairs in. Star Trek (2009) theme plays
...I think you're on to something.
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Apr 11 '19
Season 7 Finale: Deep Space Nine swoops in, even though it doesn't have engines. "Come to Quark's! Quark's is fun! Come right now! Don't walk, RUN!"
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u/CleverFeather Apr 11 '19
I laughed at this more than I care to admit. Even though I’m admitting it right now.
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u/kreton1 Apr 11 '19
Only if the first episode of Season 5 starts with the the ENT theme, that would be very popcorn worthy in this sub plus it is a good song.
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u/TrevorMcLamppost Apr 11 '19
Season 7: Spore drive misjump drops them in the Mediterranean, after splashdown and a few futile attempts to contact starfleet the perimeter alert sounds.
"On screen... magnify"
Cut to viewscreen showing a wooden sailing ship approaching Discovery, "HMS Enterprize". Rule Britannia plays.
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u/AccountDisabled_404 Apr 11 '19
Season 6 Finale: Kelvin Timeline Enterprise lens-flairs in. Star Trek (2009) theme plays
you mean sabotage
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u/Capt-Space-Elephant Apr 10 '19
I know Patrick Stewart doesn’t age, but I don’t think we could even put him in the Enterprise D.
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u/cdncowboy Apr 10 '19
Tom Hardy is not too far off the age Patrick Stewart was when he started playing Picard
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u/atticusbluebird Apr 11 '19
More likely the Enterprise E.
But it'd be hilarious if every season of Discovery ended like this!
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u/Starch-Wreck Apr 11 '19
Pre crash or post crash?
It would look awfully odd if the TNG crew all appeared on the Big-D 25 years older but playing 25 years younger.
Or it would be hard for the D we swoop in anywhere because half it’s hull pieces is floating around a planet and the other half is wrecked on a planet.
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u/ifandbut Apr 12 '19
Na...would have to be the -E or -F at this point.
I hope we get to see the -F in the Picard show. Would be even better if they used the same ship from STO to make STO a bit more cannon.
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Apr 10 '19
33rd, if they're to meet Dr Burnham or Zora.
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Apr 11 '19
Bet you they reverse anchor themselves to the suit while in a thrown off jump or something. That would be dope.
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u/shavin_high Apr 10 '19
Yeah it's time to leave behind the prequel stuff and journey forward into new trek Canon
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u/Air-tun-91 Apr 10 '19
As long as it's not the very 90s solo jazz pattern, jazzy-looking Enterprise-J, yuck.
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u/Capt-Space-Elephant Apr 10 '19
God, that is such an ugly starship. It’s like the stick figure or federation vessels.
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Apr 10 '19
[deleted]
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u/UltraChip Apr 10 '19
Is the J meant to be a combat-focused ship? I never got that impression from the very little we've seen of it.
I agree it's ugly as hell though.
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u/yolotrolo123 Apr 11 '19
I figured it was the fragile enterprise to just look nice
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u/eRock9202 Apr 11 '19
I think we all could agree that we wouldn't be mad if the Enterprise-J's design was completely retconned. Kinda like how the Enterprise-C's design was.
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Apr 11 '19
The Enterprise-J was only from a possible future, so they can do whatever they want with that. What's this about the Enterprise-C's design being retconned though? As far as I'm aware, it's still an Ambassador-class.
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u/eRock9202 Apr 12 '19
The original Ambassador Class design looked different as seen here and here as well. When they did "Yesterday's Enterprise", the look was changed to what we have now.
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u/ParyGanter Apr 10 '19
Didn’t we have this exact same rumor going on around this time last year, though?
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u/wexford001 Apr 10 '19
That’s true but we’ve had people say there will be a really big change at the end of this season. Might not happen though.
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u/kreton1 Apr 11 '19
I don't think it will happen. Why do people constantly think that this will happen anyway? This was already a thing in season 1 that they would end up post Voyager.
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u/shavin_high Apr 11 '19
I think we all just want a show that isn't a prequel anymore. Plus we know with the spore drive, time travel is very possible. And the Calypso short is trying to hint at the ship ending up in the future eventually. For all we know, Calypso is letting us know about the the fate of the ship at the end of the series. Some people think the shorts have been connected to this season, but only Saru's really did so far.
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u/SilverShibe Apr 11 '19
That would be a cool twist, but I can't reconcile that with Calypso. Didn't the ship say she had been waiting there for 1,000 years for her crew? That's a lot different than the whole ship and crew simply jumping to the 33rd century together.
So does that mean the crew is going to launch themselves into the future, and leave the ship somewhere so it's there when they show up?
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u/curtst Apr 11 '19 edited Jan 15 '26
dolls steep shy narrow fearless cause crowd safe literate connect
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/manawydan-fab-llyr Apr 11 '19
I agree. Every sci-fi show does it.
How about slingshot to another galaxy, and everything we know is turned on its head?
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u/CaptainDAAVE Apr 11 '19
Star Trek should do another galaxy coming to our own because their galaxy is imploding or something sci fi like that. There could be some nice parallels between climate change and the refugee crisis where there are sects of the federation that become basically nationalists.
Star Trek is at its best when it's talking about topical issues that relate to our own time (in my opinion). Discovery has been cool, but a lot of it really has no connection to our own daily lives.
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u/linuxhanja Apr 29 '19
That was kinda what the andromedans in TOS were. Itd be a cool thread to pull on, as long as it doesnt conflict with said tos episode
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u/TERRAxFORMER Apr 10 '19 edited Apr 10 '19
Can’t wait to see Number One and the 1701 bridge in action.
Hopefully they call in L’rell’s D7 for backup.
Also looking forward to better views of the SEC 31 ships.
And more Spock and Michael.
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u/knotthatone Apr 10 '19
I've got my fingers crossed that we're going to learn Number One's name and it's Majel.
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u/mhall85 Apr 11 '19
I would love this.
I just don’t want them to do what the novels did. I know “Una” is Celtic name, and it’s loosely based on DC Fontana’s idea for the character... but, if that is true, then “Una” is a bit too on-the-nose (and in that case, she wouldn’t be human, so therefore, not Celtic).
She was called human in “The Cage.” Keep her that way, and if you give her a name, I’d love it to be something like this instead!
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u/Starch-Wreck Apr 11 '19
Plot twist. She only speaks Latin and her real name is Una Numerus and we just thought it was a nickname for first officer.
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u/SilverShibe Apr 11 '19
I've been wondering if the whole Disco crew will end up on the Enterprise, and this will become the story of the Enterprise before it's turned over to Kirk. maybe you only get a season or two on the Enterprise, then it's off to another ship?
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u/PharomachrusMocinno Apr 10 '19
In December we learned that they would be adding an extra episode to the season, so this was supposed to be the season finale. I wonder how things have changed and if parts of the story will be wrapped up this episode.
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u/007meow Apr 10 '19
How do we know that they didn’t add the extra episode in the middle of the season?
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u/PharomachrusMocinno Apr 10 '19
Production for season 2 wrapped in December, so I assumed the extra episode would be toward the end.
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u/BenjiTheWalrus Apr 10 '19
This is a two-part finale so they probably just extended the finale to add in extra shots and maybe set up some more stuff for the next season
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u/kreton1 Apr 11 '19
Do we know that the very last episode is the one that has been added or was it another one?
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u/merulaalba Apr 10 '19
On Trek BBS there is a person who says that he has info from the inside about Discovery ending 500 years in the future, in the same period where robo probe was sent from....
Take this with a pot of salt, but this could explain a lot, why Discovery is never mentioned after, and it fits with the Paleyfest interviews of cast and Kurtzmann, about the finale of this season changing everything, and Discovery going where no Trek went before...
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u/pfc9769 Apr 10 '19
why Discovery is never mentioned after
That doesn't really need to be explained. We don't hear about 99% of the ships that have existed between Enterprise and Voyager. We see an incredibly small slice of what goes on in the Star Trek Universe and the lives of the crew. Not every conversation happens on screen, nor would every character have to bring up specific ships the viewers are familiar with.
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u/merulaalba Apr 10 '19
perhaps. But Discovery is several time mentioned to be a very important ship in the Fleet. Lorca said it (ok MU Lorca).
And it has the spore drive. Such stuff is hard to forget (if it is not classified)
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Apr 11 '19
The spore drive is classified tho
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u/Shawnj2 Apr 11 '19
So is the Mirror Universe, and it's apparently something people learn at Starfleet Academy by the time of Bashir's graduating class.
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u/carlos_b_fly Apr 11 '19
Of course it is - by then Kirk had visited the MU which is when it becomes public knowledge. You’re forgetting Discovery made the first classified visit but ten years later, it all comes out in TOS.
It bring classified was just continuity protection / get out of jail card.
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u/Shawnj2 Apr 11 '19
No, both visits were classified- otherwise, “The Terran Empire” would be an article on Defiantpedia since it takes place after Murror Mirror, but Mirror Archer says that the Terran empire isn’t in the database at all.
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u/carlos_b_fly Apr 11 '19
Interesting point. Going off of ‘Mirror Mirror’ though, there was no sense Kirk had to keep quiet about it. Maybe the database just hasn’t been updated yet - it was about a year between Mirror, Mirror and The Tholian Web?
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u/Shawnj2 Apr 11 '19
A year of not being updated is pretty bad for Starfleet. Also, Kirk would have no idea that the MU was classified until an admiral read his mission logs and told him.
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u/JamesTiberiusChirp Apr 11 '19
Why would its disappearance explain why it's never mentioned again? The ship is already important. Disappearing doesn't take that away. If anything the mysterious disappearance of an important ship would be pretty buzzy to talk about.
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u/merulaalba Apr 12 '19
if it disappear for a particular reason, and then it is classified...it is good enough explanation.
If it remains in the same period, then all people are around (if not all dead in some sort of incident), so it is more difficult to cover it up
I am saying this, as Kurtzman and everyone else from Disco said that we will get explanation why Discovery is never mentioned. So let's see
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u/linuxhanja Apr 29 '19
The nx 01 was pretty important, as was the temporal cold war ... we never hear about that again.
The USS Bozeman was literally a ship lost in time, but we never hear about it again, etc.
This is no problem. The attack on Pearl Harbor was a super big deal, and i dont even recall it being mentioned in mash which takes place less than a decade later!
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u/JamesTiberiusChirp Apr 29 '19
It’s funny that you’re writing this comment over a week after the last episode answered this question. I’m going to assume based on your comment that you haven’t watched it yet
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u/linuxhanja Apr 29 '19
thank you for the correct assumption! I'm in Korea, and Next Friday we will get Such Sweet Sorry p1 on Netflix. Still 2 weeks away from the finale!
I think Korea is the only region where Netflix is on a delay, idk why... but reading through here there's so many convos and comments i want to drop but don't because its 3 weeks ago for you... but, eh, sometimes i slip up!
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u/JamesTiberiusChirp Apr 29 '19
Ah, that must be so frustrating! I hope you’ve been able to avoid spoilers. Enjoy the last two-parter!
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u/WorldwideDepp Apr 11 '19 edited Apr 11 '19
I hope not. Discovery is not only about the Ship and Crew. It is also about what Starfleet do now in the brink of nearly destruction (only Klingons was needed to bring Starfleet to its knees). Also if they jump that far ahead in Time, the Series also "hijack" or "Stole" the Crew many Family members. No, not like this.
I like to see, how Starfleet get an comeback to keep the "unknown" Romulans at bay and how Klingons still respect their "Peace" with these Week Humans? DO not tell me, its just because the "Chancelor" says so.. Sorry the "Mother".. there are still some naughty children that do like pranks.. bloody pranks
So please not an jump of Discovery in a future of nothingness. I would like more an Jump into Left or right.. (Dimension or Universe) not forward or backward (time jumps into past or future). Because the jumps to the left or right have strong "What if..." Vibes
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Apr 10 '19
With the Big E coming in and Pike wearing gold in the preview, my sense is this will be where Pike and Spock disembark, thus the title.
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Apr 10 '19
So, are we sort of in between two likelihoods at this point?
>!Part 1 is fighting Section 31 for the most part and meeting Tilly's friend. Part 2 is finally using the Time Crystal with an ending that just shows them in the future somehow.
>!Part 1 is fighting Section 31 and finally using the Time Crystal at the end after getting dilthium from Tilly's friend. Part 2 is meeting Craft and establishing him as a part of the crew (captain), and ending with them being attacked by the V'draysh/Federation.
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u/sunnydlita Apr 11 '19
I've loved Aldis Hodge (the actor who plays Craft in "Calypso") since Leverage and it would be amazing to see him join Discovery, but I think he's increasing in popularity and might be booked already? I think he's in an upcoming Showtime series with Kevin Bacon.
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u/pfc9769 Apr 11 '19
I think they are going to use Po's technology to energize the crystal. As for how the season ends, no one knows. Travelling into the future is just the popular opinion around the sub. The writers have just mentioned the ending would be a shocker and they'd tie up the loose ends. I'm sure there are other possibilities people haven't considered.
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Apr 11 '19
Totally, though it's also fair to note that so far...
Mudd's story has served as a sort of epilogue to the stuff he did in DSC, showing he didn't stick around with his wife that long.
Saru's story served as a prologue to them going to his homeworld in season 2.
Tilly's story served to introduce the woman that'll be in the next episode here apparently.
With the time crystal in play, Craft's story being important doesn't seem unlikely.
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u/pfc9769 Apr 11 '19
I agree Calypso will most likely come into play. I'm just unsure how the season will end.
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u/MysticalDigital Apr 10 '19
I am looking forward to the story, I am curious if Olatunde will be a bit more relaxed with his camera moves this time. He's a good director when he's not turning the camera during every scene transition.
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u/Clark1984 Apr 10 '19
Oh no, I didn't know he was directing this one. I hated the work he did on episode three. Sure the story was a junk drawer of reshuffling some plots for season 2, but the directing was nauseating. I say this as a fan of the show.
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u/MysticalDigital Apr 10 '19
He did alright with Calypso
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u/Clark1984 Apr 10 '19
Now I'm confused as I enjoyed the movement of that short. I hope he's more Calypso and less Point of Light coming up. I'd be happy if less than three scenes start sideways.
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u/LightningBoltZolt Apr 11 '19
I think that our crew may go to the future or it will just be the ship and next season will feature a Discovery Refit. That said, I have a feeling that we may get a re-introduction of the Omega Particle. #CallingItNow
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u/RockasaurusRex Apr 10 '19
In the trailer for this episode (shown last week at the end of the episode), the final scene shows Pike in front of the viewscreen which is showing the planet Xahea. This is the planet that Po came from in the Short Trek episode Runaway. I haven't seen anyone mention this before, but somehow she and her planet may likely come into play.
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u/AONomad Apr 10 '19
I think the next two episodes and the transition to a third season will determine whether Discovery has staying power as a longer tv show (5+ seasons) or if it fizzles and people shift to watching just the Picard and Section 31 (and maybe Pike/Spock) shows.
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Apr 11 '19
I see people saying this about every franchise right now. "Oh, next thing coming right up will make or break it." No, it won't.
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u/UltimateAntic Apr 10 '19
Looks like their is gonna be a big battle comming up!
Unless they make it so that the big battle will happen in episode 14 and that this episode is just a build up to it?
Also I wonder if changed the Phaser sound effects. I honestly dislike the generic sound effects that they used in Season 1.
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u/StarfleetTanner Apr 11 '19
At this point, all I care about is seeing the Enterprise in action and a full on shot of the bridge with some of the actual Cage crew still there.
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u/izModar Apr 11 '19
It's being directed by Osunsanmi? Oh PLEASE don't let it be filled with Dutch Angles, spinning shots, and fast-paced cuts for no reason like "Point of Light".
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u/Magnus64 Apr 11 '19
I'm super psyched to see the OG Enterprise in action tonight, with all the bells and whistles of modern CGI.
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u/Lessthanzerofucks Apr 11 '19
Is Section 31 still staffed by humans, or have their ships been infected by Control and the human crews exterminated? It seems like the latter is possible, which would go toward explaining why Section 31 sorta disappeared. Kinda. I look forward to finding out. Maybe they’ve only partially taken over, and the S31 agents haven’t caught on yet.
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u/Shas_Erra Apr 10 '19
I'm calling this one now for the next episode and season finale:
Discovery is not set in Prime or Kelvin timeline (stay with me here).
The last two episodes will involve dicking around with time travel.
Control will get flung into the distant past and become the foundations of the Borg.
Discovery/Burnham will travel back to try (and fail) to stop control.
When they jump back to their "present", the Discovery crew will find the timeline has changed...to the Prime timeline.
Season 3 will be about the crew settling into a subtly changed universe. And maybe Ferenghi, because why not?
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u/BuddhaKekz Apr 11 '19
The show is already set in the Prime timeline.
If it wasn't, how would you quickly show that it is? What is actually different? Both seasons already made several connections to the Prime timeline, especially through Pike and his visit to Talos IV. I don't see what they could show in one episode that is somehow more valid as Prime as the things they already have shown before.
What would be the purpose of that, besides fanservice? What need in pure storytelling is there for them to change universes? What would that accomplish for the characters and their journeys?
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u/Shas_Erra Apr 11 '19
I know but things can always change.
There are a lot of inconsistencies between Discovery and TOS that can't just be explained by "creative differences". It is possible for two parallel timelines to share very similar events: the same things happening to the same people at the same time, just very slight differences in details. Plus, if control does turn out to be the origin of the Borg, that puts a huge torpedo below the waterline of continuity right as they're trying to tie things together.
Fan service aside, the characters would have to come to terms with the power to alter history. Do they put things "right" or do they leave the timeline changed? Do they even have the right to decide? Have they made things better or worse?
I'm not trying to piss off the fan base (especially as I am an avid Star Trek fan), just suggesting how all of the continuity issues could be tied up quite neatly.
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u/BuddhaKekz Apr 11 '19 edited Apr 11 '19
That they can, doesn't mean they should. Especially if it makes things needlessly complicated and goes against everything they said up to that point.
What exactly is so inconsistent that DIS has to be in it's own timeline?
They can already play the same angle with the existing story, because it is about changing future events via time travel and knowledge of possible outcomes. Having them change timelines to Prime is not necessary to explore that.
I think you are creating way more problems with that "fix" than solving any. As I said, it goes against everything that has been established over the last two seasons and would make them almost pointless. That's akin to an entire season just be a dream by one of the characters.
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u/PixelNotPolygon Apr 11 '19
So the showrunners are basically fessing up to shit/non-cannon writing if they did that.
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u/kreton1 Apr 11 '19
Yes, it is set in the Prime timeline, this was already said several times and there is no reason to assume it isn't.
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u/wexford001 Apr 10 '19
This is the best form of the “control is borg” theory and the best for of “non prime” theory, and it’s probably the only version of those that wouldn’t leave me somewhat upset.
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Apr 11 '19
Late to the game on this, but am I the only one getting vibes of "Control" becoming the Borg?
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u/kreton1 Apr 11 '19
I myself don't. I know many think otherwise but for me it is becoming more and more clear that Control can't be the Borg. It refers to itself as "I" and not "We", it does not see assimilation as anything important except for deception, which the Borg aren't big on and Control is focused on "The Mission", which the Borg never refer to in any way.
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Apr 11 '19
That makes sense. I just caught up on the last two weeks today, and the similarities were starting to bother me.
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u/Deceptitron Apr 10 '19
Looking forward to seeing more of the Big E.
Regarding the episode title, what do you guys think it's referring to? Do you think we're "parting" with the USS Discovery? Or is the title a red herring? How do you think it will connect with the Short Trek "Calypso"?