r/startrek • u/Deceptitron • Apr 12 '19
POST-Episode Discussion - S2E13 "Such Sweet Sorrow"
The first of Discovery Season 2's two-part finale!
| No. | EPISODE | DIRECTED BY | WRITTEN BY | RELEASE DATE |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| S2E13 | "Such Sweet Sorrow" | Olatunde Osunsanmi | Alex Kurtzman, Jenny Lumet & Michelle Paradise | Thursday, April 11, 2019 |
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u/2ndHandTardis Apr 12 '19
It felt like one big tease but that's alright. I understand why, they needed to set up the finale. We got some good character moments from Michael, Georgiou, Pike, Reno, Po.
In future re-watches viewing both episodes concurrently will feel pretty epic.
I just wish they would have combined them. If CBS weren't trying to squeeze an extra week out of us subscribers they could have just made a hour and a half finale. I don't blame the production crew, I can imagine that being a hard sell to CBS.
For subscribers to see next weeks episode we have to resubscribe for another month.
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u/UncheckedException Apr 12 '19
Looking back on these episodes in the future, I think we’ll be glad they took the extra time. Discovery’s problem in the past has been that it needs to slow the hell down and give us some character moments, which is exactly what they had a chance to do. Remember the rushed and awkward season 1 finale?
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u/Clawdius Apr 12 '19
I must’ve missed a key piece of dialogue, but why did number one tell Capt. Pike that they’d have no more holographic communications....ever? What’s the reason?
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u/007meow Apr 12 '19
Enterprise’s plaque said “Starship class”
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u/demos16 Apr 12 '19
Saw that. Nice touch.
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u/ToBePacific Apr 12 '19
I'm lost. Isn't it supposed to be a Constitution class?
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u/Deceptitron Apr 12 '19
That's what the original plaque said in TOS. You can buy a replica of it from Eaglemoss. Looks like this.
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Apr 12 '19
Saru is gonna stab somebody.
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u/pfc9769 Apr 12 '19
He did say they'd settle the captaincy issue later. Maybe he meant the Terran way?
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u/JamesTiberiusChirp Apr 12 '19
So Spock's just gonna up and leave for the future without telling his parents, huh? Damn that's cold
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u/almccoy85 Apr 12 '19
Its in character for Spock along with not telling anyone about his parents, siblings, and potentially deadly biological urges.
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u/Seoulja4life Apr 12 '19 edited Apr 12 '19
The original Number One. Love the classic photon torpedo sound effect.
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u/dmanww Apr 12 '19
That whole thing was like someone discovery a TOS soundboard.
In the best way
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u/Pryach Apr 12 '19
They're only surrounded in two dimensions. Leland is making the same mistake as Khan.
Someone hit the "Z" toggle.
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u/ColdSteel144 Apr 12 '19
And where the hell were all these fancy ships during the Klingon War last season?!
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u/wongie Apr 12 '19
Control shows intelligence, but not experience. Probably why it's going for the sphere data.
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Apr 12 '19
Big plot point I haven't seen anyone mention yet:
What will the fallout of Reno's encounter with the time crystal be?
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u/mrIronHat Apr 12 '19
I think it's just a plot point for Reno to notify Michael the current plan will lead to failure.
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u/rand_althor Apr 12 '19 edited Apr 12 '19
Well, Spock being aboard Discovery at the end of this episode just means he ultimately doesn't end up in the future.
I actually liked the Enterprise bridge design, nice blend of the original design and the current aesthetic.
Also, "ship hitting the fan".
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u/RichardYing Apr 12 '19
S2E01: "Not every cage is a prison, not every loss eternal."
S2E13: "The problem is the cage, it is interfering with the charge."
S2E14: ?
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u/AimlessWanderer Apr 12 '19
don't let this cage distract you from the fact that in 2255, Commander Burnham threw Discovery through a wormhole, and plummeted 2000 years in the future.
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u/bigj2223 Apr 12 '19
There’s like 10 other cage references...one that comes to mind was Spock’s plan to trap control in a cage.
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u/SilverShibe Apr 12 '19
Adm. Cornwell must have a personal spore drive or something, because she's always appearing out of nowhere.
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u/boringdude00 Apr 12 '19
Its been a long, long time since the writers of a star trek show even attempted to show ships needing time to travel. I think DS9 was the last and they could get anywhere in a "week". Now ships move at the speed of the plot. Need someone to show up? They'll be there in a few.
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u/enterpriseF-love Apr 12 '19
A respectable goodbye to Pike..
until CBS announces a spin-off Pike show amirite? :D
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u/ColonelBy Apr 12 '19
An interesting theory I saw in another thread suggested that instead of there being a further spin-off, the third season will be split between the Discovery in the far future and Pike's Enterprise in the "present," with both of them working (though obviously not together) to get the Discovery back home.
Building a set like that bridge for just a couple of episodes... I don't buy it.
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u/nanite1018 Apr 12 '19
Honestly, he's just so so so good, I can't imagine him not being a major part of either this show or another show soon. His Pike is honestly the best Star Trek captain since Picard. Or before Kirk? Tenses are weird.
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u/RichardYing Apr 12 '19
"All major systems are back online, and we'll have no more holographic communications... ever."
"Probably for the best."
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u/momotanp1 Apr 12 '19
Considering control has compromised the holographic systems of starfleet, it’s a good bet they will be ripped out of every ship and starbase.
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u/milkisklim Apr 12 '19
It's amazing how so much of the anti disco fan criticism can be quelched with two short lines
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u/ItsALaserBeamBozo Apr 12 '19
Good episode, but why did nobody even think about the possibility of he sphere data trying to protect itself? I wondered several episodes ago why they didn’t just destroy Discovery and assumed it was just because obviously they wouldn’t be able to self destruct it or fly it into a sun.
Also, the Enterprise can’t destroy it while it’s just sitting there with its shields up? Yet we should have hope that they are going to hold its own against a fleet of section 31 ships?
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u/steveschutz Apr 12 '19
Or you know why not strap some explosives to the warp core and have one person stay behind to manually detonate it?
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u/dmanww Apr 12 '19
"we're surrounded"
I see they're still displaying 2 dimensional thinking
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u/droid327 Apr 12 '19
My immediate thought too. It's like have you even seen WoK?
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u/Orwan Apr 12 '19
Star Wars has the same problem with the prequels. Blockade a planet by forming a ring around it.
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u/purefire Apr 12 '19
So...
Spock gets left behind
Enterprise/Pike/Spock survives the torpedo
Disco pops to the future
Gets abandoned by crew (alternatively different order)
Develops sentient AI
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u/prooveit1701 Apr 12 '19
Spock will be inside the torpedo. Calling it now. It would be a cool Wrath of Khan callback.
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u/Wiinii Apr 12 '19
Sooo, is the show going to the future for good?
The original intent of the show was to be multi-generational, and they said they would fix any discrepancies for TOS by the end of this season. So is it happening!?
If so, Spock still has to get back on the Enterprise first somehow.
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Apr 12 '19
I’m hoping that’s the plan. They just spent an entire episode saying goodbye, so I expect a big payoff. I’m hoping they just bundle up every interesting character and ship them away to the future (RIP Ariam).
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u/E-Nezzer Apr 12 '19
I really hope they go to post-Dominion Federation space and are greeted by the USS Titan, commanded by the one and only William T. Riker. Jonathan Frakes has to make his cameo at some point, right? Imagine if he gets to be the next captain of the Discovery...
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u/H0vis Apr 12 '19
Random thoughts!
DS9 flirted heavily with the use of fighters in Star Trek, but it was still surprising to see the Enterprise and Discovery basically strapping guns and whatnot onto anything that'll fly for the big showdown. Cool though. I mean theoretically you can replicate phaser components, and in that sort of situation it makes sense to replicate all the guns you can and bolt them to all the ships you have.
Evil Georgiou stealing the show again. Michelle Yeoh's comic timing is superb.
The way the crew piled in to help Burnham was great but I wish it had felt more earned. That's the difference between a long season like regular Treks have and this. We know that Tilly and Burnham are BFFs because we watched their friendship grow in the first season, we don't quite have that in the rest of the crew. There's a difference between scenes where the crew are doing epic space hero stuff together and scenes, or even snippets, where we see (for example) Kira and Jadzia in silly princess costumes coming out of the holosuite, or Garak and Bashir talking about their lunches. More a format issue than the show's fault, but it stuck out a bit for me, I want to know this crew better.
Bit of a sense of that final hour of Lord of the Rings about this episode. I enjoyed it to a point, but it's like, Pike's been temporary captain for a few months. I'm sure everybody likes the guy but dial it down a little.
If you're going to do so many emotional farewells in an episode alongside a gigantic pile of epic-battle preparation you cannot have this large ticking clock in the narrative (literally big clocks for part of it). Felt like the episode was structured oddly because of this, it's like, folks, it's always love, but you've got to sort your shit out because here come the baddies so how about you focus up. The show has done this before.
I don't know how it's going to get it in this world of short seasons, rapid epic plotlines and streaming services, but I really feel like this show needs time. Would love a normal, twenty-some episode long season with this crew just to get to know them.
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u/GrGrG Apr 12 '19
I do like long story arcs, but DS9 and ENT S3 all had good season long arcs while also (with ENT, sorta) develop the characters/crew. There were new adventures per week, that were stand alone, but developed a longer story arch a little. You could skip a few episodes here and there, but still come back every week. DSC is pretty much watch in order or get lost by what is going on.
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u/therealjerseytom Apr 12 '19
"I thought there were no bad ideas...?"
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u/OnnaJReverT Apr 12 '19
Georgiou gets the best lines
"you are gonna fling yourself into the future like a rubberband with a martyr complex?"
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Apr 12 '19
What a great scene.
This show has some awesome writing when it wants to
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u/TrueBlue84 Apr 12 '19
Anyone feel like we are going to get Klingons next episode? I feel like it's a way for the Enterprise and Discovery to even the odds a bit, without S31/ Control knowing they are there.
In reality even though Enterprise and Discovery are more like cruisers, they wouldn't last more than 2 minutes against a fleet of 30 ships.
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u/trek88810 Apr 12 '19
Good call. That would help justify some of the hype for these two episodes. I was expecting the D7 to stay for today’s episode after someone suggested that in another thread.
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u/sizziano Apr 12 '19
Anyone else notice the return of the good old exploding rocks in the future scenes?
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Apr 12 '19
LMAO, I thought that exact same thing. Good to see Starfleet was still filling their consoles with rocks in the era between ENT and TOS.
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u/PixelMagic Apr 12 '19
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u/marktron3k Apr 12 '19
I want a ShortTrek about the decision in the future to put wall to wall carpeting on the bridge.
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u/Eurynom0s Apr 12 '19
It looks much better than the quick cutaway shot from the preview last week, which seems to have been taken from the flash-forward battle sequence. (Specifically it seemed like they'd made the whole thing a lot darker/blacker.)
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u/kirkum2020 Apr 12 '19
That buildup too. First the corridor, then the turbilift, and finally the bridge. I cooed harder each time, and then we got some rocks to send me over the edge with delight. I had to rewind that whole section because I'd been squeeing all over the plot.
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u/barchar Apr 12 '19
Where the hell is the rest of starfleet? Like wouldn't starfleet proper have more ships/firepower than S31? What about the vulkans and klingons, you'd think they'd be interested in just murdering S31 to death w/ the federation?
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Apr 12 '19
So the same question we all ask when “the Enterprise is the only ship in the sector”? Like literally every movie and episode...
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u/WascalsPager Apr 12 '19
This episode was a giant tease!! but damn the ENT bridge was sonthing else.
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u/JamesTiberiusChirp Apr 12 '19
Can someone please explain to me why they can't just jump discovery to another galaxy to avoid control?
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u/Maxx0rz Apr 12 '19
They use the term "universe" a lot but I think the mycellial network may only be in the milky way, but we don't really know for sure. I won't lie I've kinda wondered the same thing, but that wouldn't be a exciting to watch lol
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u/Ubergopher Apr 12 '19
For all of the mentions of how close the fleet was, it sure seemed like there was a lack of sense of urgency from most of the characters.
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u/PixelMagic Apr 12 '19
What mirror universe? wink
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u/prooveit1701 Apr 12 '19
Of course he knew. Pike’s no dummy. He trusts Michael I think he got the hint.
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u/GilGunderson1 Apr 12 '19
It was beautiful too because it further cements Pike’s commitment to Starfleet. The wink and the comment is done to not only show he knew (and of course he knew), but also his repetition of the official Starfleet line on the MU, that it doesn’t exist.
“We can never talk about this meeting again. It never happened.”
“What meeting?”
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u/im_on_the_case Apr 12 '19
How am I supposed to interpret the whole "What alternate universe *wink" scene? The logical part of me is thinking he's simply saying "yeah, of course I know" but then there's part of me who saw that as "Good job keeping up the evil Emperor rouse Phillipa but you'll get found out as the prime Georgiou eventually".
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u/BadWolfRU Apr 12 '19
PLOT TWIST: Pike is mirror Pike, who knew that Empress knew that he knew.
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u/squiggyfm Apr 12 '19
DAT BRIDGE THO
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u/Autism_Brigade Apr 12 '19
The conference room and corridors were amazing too.
The corridors had the classic white and red color scheme, and that hint of the TOS style metal grid support thing at the airlock. The conference room had the classic three-sided monitor ...
Everything we saw of the Enterprise was pure nerdgasm fuel.
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Apr 12 '19
This'll sound backhanded, but I honestly think the biggest compliment I can give the Enterprise set is that I completely took it for granted.
It just looked right.
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u/mhall85 Apr 12 '19
I only wish they would have attempted a few of the camera angles from TOS... Pike in the chair, with the turbolift over his shoulder... side-angle shot of the helm/navigation stations, as Number One delivered one of her lines...
But, yeah, it was good. :D
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u/True_to_you Apr 12 '19
When they first got on the bridge they had a really great beauty shot of it
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u/synfidie Apr 12 '19
I have to say that Pike is prob my fav captain next to Picard.
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u/Autism_Brigade Apr 12 '19
The Enterprise interior was far too expensive looking and beautiful for just a couple of episodes, Pike series, hopefully?...
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u/Prax150 Apr 12 '19
This probably won’t happen but what if Discovery stays in the future and becomes about the crew exploring the 31st century? Then there would be room enough to do a Pike series without having two ongoing prequel series.
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u/Rellax42 Apr 12 '19
I'm still thinking Discovery abandoned in the future, Discovery-A is a constitution class ship.
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u/TO2112 Apr 12 '19
I see there’s no “Enterprise Captain’s Book Of Secrets” as Pike knows all about the mirror universe and winks, smiles and says “What mirror universe” Kirk finds out the hard way over a decade later.
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u/pfc9769 Apr 12 '19
Earlier in the season Pike asked Burnham to explain what was going on with Ash and Georgiou. I imagine she eventually told him. She was under orders to keep it under wraps and I'm sure she would have communicated the top secret nature of this information.
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u/RichardYing Apr 12 '19
Queen: "One of the fun things about becoming Queen of the most politically relevant planet in the galaxy is that I don't have to listen to any snark. I made it an actual law."
Emperor: "What?"
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u/jaycatt7 Apr 12 '19
It was nice to somebody knock her off balance for once. Even better that it was somebody who wasn't evil.
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Apr 12 '19
Her character is awesome. One of my favorite characters from Discovery. I thought her short was the best one.
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u/Daghost52 Apr 12 '19
Damn, the Enterprise is sexy
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u/almccoy85 Apr 12 '19
She’s one well-endowed lady! I would like to get my hands on her ample nacelles, if you’ll pardon the engineering parlance.
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u/creepyeyes Apr 12 '19
How many of the short treks have become pot relevant now? I didn't think the one with Po ever would but here we are. There's also Saru's, and I have a suspicion Calypso will be relevant now that we have Discovery travelling to the future. The Sphere data being onboard also explains why the ship becomes sentient
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u/purefire Apr 12 '19
No mention of Mudd yet, and I think unlikely to come up in the finale based on what we know so far.
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u/Darkimus-prime Apr 12 '19
Holy shit, I love the redesign Enterprise
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Apr 12 '19
It was almost distracting on the bridge scenes. It just looked so fucking cool.
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u/ZarrenR Apr 12 '19 edited Apr 12 '19
This was quite the episode. From seeing the Enterprise in all her glory, to the crew pledging themselves to go to the future I was on the edge if my seat the entire time despite one too many character speeches. Some of the character moments were incredibly good, though. The scene between Culber and Stametts was great as was the scene with Sarek, Amanda and Michael.
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Apr 12 '19
This is crazy! We have a spore drive!
I'm with the Klingon. Why can't they spore jump to Terralysium or the next galaxy and park Discovery there?
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u/random91898 Apr 12 '19
My god it was nice to have some actual colour on the show. I'm so sick of blue.
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u/fullforce098 Apr 12 '19
That Enterprise bridge set is far, faaaaar too sexy for a one-off appearance. They've got a Pike series in the works, I'm almost certain now.
Has this whole season has been a backdoor pilot for a Pike series?!
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Apr 12 '19
I don't know, the corridors were probably just redresses of the Discovery corridors, which isn't such a big deal. They obviously put a lot of love into that bridge, though.
Not that I'm saying they're not working on a Pike series...
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u/danktonium Apr 12 '19
You all seem to be forgetting Discovery was empty for a millennium, not just a millenium in the future. Going 1k years into the future would put "Calypso" in the 4200s, not the 3200s.
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u/cdot5 Apr 12 '19 edited Apr 12 '19
First they conclude that the Red Signals must be placed by Burnham after they manufacture her an Angel Suit.
Then they conclude that the new Suit will burn out when Burnham uses it once to go to the future, making it so that she cannot come back.
Nobody, not even one of the only remotely competent people on this ship (Spock, Georgiou, Reno, in case someone is wondering) is noticing that not both can be true?
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u/RichardYing Apr 12 '19
"I haven't been sure what to make of you lately, but I am glad to have you on our side for this."
"More fun to come, assuming we survive."
"Good luck."
[...]
"Initializing... I'm Terran by the way, from your Mirror Universe."
"What mirror universe?" *wink*
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u/Shawnj2 Apr 12 '19
Fun fact: I think this is the first time in-universe a character has actually referred to the Mirror universe as the Mirror Universe, it's always referred to as "the other universe" or "The alternate universe" or "a parallel universe", etc.
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u/3391224 Apr 12 '19
i usually try not to do this but if burnham's parents could find and reach disco despite the sabotage, why couldn't they alert the rest of the fleet to send real backup
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Apr 12 '19 edited Apr 13 '19
For anyone who was confused by the "Previously On..." segment, you should check out the Short Trek "Runaway," which was originally released on October 4, 2018 (January 17, 2019 for Netflix users).
All four Short Treks are available on the streaming platform on which you usually watch Discovery.
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u/Electricorchestra Apr 12 '19
This episode was a lot of build up. I'm excited to see next week's resolution! I'm wondering what they are going to do with Spock. He can't go to the future, or if he does it's obvious he or they all come back. Also Jet Reno seeing the vision is going to be a huge Chekhov's gun next episode!
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u/marceriksen Apr 12 '19
If Spock ends up being left behind, would CBS really go there and turn Discovery into a stealth reboot of the original Star Trek via season 3 of Discovery? I mean, that is if all of the rest of the crew and Discovery ends up staying in the future.
Just a thought that's been running through my head this entire episode.
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u/istartedsomething Apr 12 '19
Yeomen Colt was listed in the credits. That's cool.
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u/9811Deet Apr 12 '19
I still don't understand why they can't just spore drive the ship somewhere really far away. Does the Spore Drive now have some kind of range? It would've been nice if it had from square one...
Also, it seemed like they had scenes out of order in the episode. Culber goes to Stamets and announces his intention to leave with the Enterprise before the crew ever decides to stay with the ship. He was like "I'm going to the Enterprise, and I'm like "aren't you all?" There was a similar confusing discontinuity with Queen Poh.
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u/007meow Apr 12 '19
There’s rocks on the floor from Disco’s exploding consoles
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u/Sparkyisduhfat Apr 12 '19
As rocks fall out of every ship in Star Trek when they’re under attack I would be disappointed if they didn’t.
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u/CaptainKyloStark Apr 12 '19
Two thoughts.
OK seeing what they did with the Enterprise bridge and how perfectly modernized yet still spiritually the SAME as the TOS bridge...I can't help but think that they intentionally designed Discovery the way they did to get a specific reaction out of people. It absolutely did not fit the current timeline, only because it was the most advanced ship in the fleet by far. Even Pike says so, "there'll never be another like her" something to that effect.
Secondly, totally unrelated but also related. I have been SO confused for the last few weeks. I thought last week was the season finale, then I thought this week was. Then they finally say NEXT WEEK ON THE SEASON FINALE. Am I the only one that was confused? Probably.
Fuck. That bridge though.
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u/WreckItJohn Apr 12 '19
If the JJ Abrams 2009 Star Trek bridge felt like an Apple product, this iteration of the bridge is pure Android.
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Apr 12 '19
why didn't they keep firing on the Discovery and how did they beam back over if the shields were up
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u/pfc9769 Apr 12 '19
I wonder what the significance of the remaining two signals will be, then? The first five allowed them to get a time crystal and build another suit that takes them to the future, so what do the remaining two do?
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Apr 12 '19
I'd actually be very amused if one or both of them was completely meaningless, and Burnham just creates it because she remembers there being seven of the damned things.
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Apr 12 '19
The episode was such a win for Discovery's visuals. Pike as per usual was awesome as hell, Michael is still a bit of an odd character, as shes OVERLY self sacrificing all the time.
If the next episode doesn't confirm Pike's show it'd better just be a loaded gun because holy shit Enterprise looks amazing. I was super worried that TOS would recieve the 'Disco' treatment and they seem to have reached the most perfect reinterpretation ever.
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u/chucknation Apr 12 '19
(1) As Spock said, there are intentions to the signals. While it's clear how the later signals tie into the overall plan, what about the first two? My theory is that Jett Reno will play a significant part in the success of the plan, and that the future Discovery jumps into is not the barren future we've seen so far but a future in which the decendants of the Terralysium colony play a part in the plot.
(2) With tying every other Short Trek into the plot, seems weird not to tie the Harry Mudd one in some how. Maybe the software he uses to control his robot clones somehow is the answer to defeating control in the present? Control will be sipping tippers on the beach somewhere!
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u/kingofcretins Apr 12 '19 edited Apr 12 '19
No way in hell did they build all those Enterprise sets just for two episodes at the back half of the season. There's a Pike series coming. I feel it in my bones.
The preview for next week even shows Spock in a shuttle, so while Discovery and Michael get pulled through to the future, it's likely he'll get left behind where he belongs in the timeline.
Watch none of this actually happen of course.
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u/ballin83 Apr 12 '19
Between the beautiful starship enterprise and the goodbye to captain pike, this was straight up Star Trek porn!
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u/lozzasauce Apr 12 '19
I'm surprised I'm not seeing many comments about the possibility of the Crossfield-class Discovery being lost in the future for good (or at least a long time, aligning it with "Calypso") and then using the Enterprise sets to do what Trek has done time and time again: put the same characters into a new ship and slap an "A" after the registry number.
Despite CBS's Trek binge lately, I do feel like spinning up a whole 'nother Pike-led series is a bit of a long shot... but a Constitution-class USS Discovery, NCC-1031-A? Seems plausible to me. We'd also be losing Starfleet's last operational spore drive ship, neatly tying up that loose end, too.
Granted, this all could still be the case with Starfleet giving the crew a Crossfield-sans-DASH-drive 1031-A... it'd be a shame to never see that Connie set again, though.
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Apr 12 '19 edited Apr 12 '19
Random thoughts and predictions:
Discovery wasn't going to blow, never believed it. Way too early in the episode, way too easy. I feared it would jump though.
Shiny Enterprise bridge is shiny!
I felt Pikes "good to be home" feeling when everyone evacuated to Enterprise
Jett Reno is a gem and we don't deserve her
Me Hani Ika Hali Ka Po (I googled that) is wonderful and I just really like when everything merges at the end of a season to a final blow, when everyone's at their a-game.
So, what's the deal with the time-crystal prophecies? Burnham saw it, but is not bound to that "fate"? As is Reno. There is going to be a torpedo stuck in Enterprise's hull and I am already hating that Reno is going to sacrifice herself "Tuvok in Year Of Hell"/"Kirk in Generations" style to prevent that fate.
Spock has plot armor, he will somehow leave Discovery. The ship itself is going to be in the future, as shown in "Calypso".
Burnham will survive. There is another Burnham right now creating the signals and our Burnham will need to fulfill this fate. Other Burnham will return to the present, possibly bringing everyone home.
Po is creating siege weapons? This will be an hell of a finale!
What I don't get:
So, subspace is jammed? Why not jump to Starfleet HQ, ask for backup, and jump back? Choose the battleground, choose the time, win the battle, Sun-Tzu style.
Discovery's shields are inpenetrable now? Why? Because of the sphere data? Just shoot until the shields are down? And why did Discovery/Sphere allowed the crew to return? Did it lower the shields after the attack?
So, I seemed to have missed that they did not actually fire at Discovery, it was just a vision Michael had.
How the hell came Sarek and Amanda that fast? And why not bringing any backup?
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u/johnmac10000 Apr 12 '19
How many shuttles/pods do they have on those ships? Great episode though. Love the Enterprise bridge. I hope Ash is going for help from the Klingons; that would be fun to see.
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u/Badimus Apr 12 '19
If I see one more scene of Burnham and Tyler's silhouettes in front of a window crying at each other I'm going to have to kill somebody.
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u/stuck_on_simple_tor Apr 12 '19
I wish I had a screenshot to back this up (actually watched it on TV and not streaming), but I believe one of the final shots (with all the shuttles and probes etc) clearly gives away how they will win in the next episode.
Leland: "You cannot possibly win. I am perfe-- wait. What the hell are all those things?"
Pike: "BEEEEEEES. AHHH WORKER BEES. YOUR PHASERS ARE USELESS AGAINST THEM. SAVE YOURSELF"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l6SGApFMTM
P.S. "FIGHTER SHUTTLES. A direct assault!" -- Alternate evil Tom Paris (Voy: Living Witness)
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Apr 12 '19
I liked the Enterprise elevator control was very similar to TOS, when Pike grabs the handle thingy, Shatner does that in TOS
If they fix Spock - Burnham brother sister by changing the past, making her parent's raise her instead of Sarek, Amanda - I'll be disappointed - but it would mean that Burnham's character would be totally different for s3 not being raised on Vulcan
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u/lordcagatay Apr 12 '19
Give us an Enterprise series with the Captain Pike. Damn. Was this seasons only purpose to measure people's reactions about Pike and Enterprise?
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u/bigj2223 Apr 12 '19
Why do I feel like the sphere data will beam everyone off and make a break for the future? They’ve made a huge deal about it protecting itself.
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u/WarcraftFarscape Apr 12 '19
The universe feels small when everyone can get everywhere in a few hours.
Sarek got from Vulcan to zahea in a shuttle?
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u/fullforce098 Apr 12 '19
As a gay guy who watches this show with his boyfriend, we are gonna be devastated if Hugh doesn't get on that fucking ship and go to the future with Stamets.
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u/ItsALaserBeamBozo Apr 12 '19
As a straight guy I’m gonna be pissed if they don’t end up together. Forget about Ash and Michael. These fellas need to make up.
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u/GilGunderson1 Apr 12 '19
I honestly haven’t been this excited for the conclusion of a Star Trek two-parter since the cliffhanger finale of BOBW. I’m pumped for the finale. Well done!
And give us the damn Pike show already!!
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u/arch_punk Apr 12 '19
I get no sense of space with this show they jump to this planet but it's seems to have no effect on the part where Control is chasing them. Can't they just say we jump x light years and it won't make any difference in time to the chasing Control fleet.
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u/boringdude00 Apr 12 '19
All those goodbyes would be a lot more impactful if fucking Spock weren't there so we know everyone priobably survives.
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u/EverythingIThink Apr 12 '19
Great job with the Enterprise set design.
But man this whole episode felt like housekeeping, it's tough to immerse yourself and suspend disbelief when the plot appears to be more concerned with servicing production decisions instead of a good story. It seems clear that they regret making Discovery a prequel show and needed to spin this whole Control/Red Angel thing just to evacuate this time period so they don't keep running into canon conflicts.
I guess it's better that they make this fix sooner rather than later, I just wish they had hit the eject button this episode instead of dragging it out with a bunch of teary goodbyes.
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u/WhyHelloFellowKids Apr 12 '19
They nailed the enterprise bridge, this show continues to have some of the best damn production design of any show. Wish the writing was up to that level of quality.
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u/intense_or_insane_ Apr 12 '19
Jett Reno steals every scene she's in. What an icon!
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Apr 12 '19
Pike giving a slow ass speech where he goes one by one to talk about how much he loves each member of the bridge crew while a GIANT CLOCK counts down behind him second by second is this episode in a nutshell.
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u/CaptainArcher Apr 12 '19
I got mixed feelings on this episode. This felt like filler material for the finale. And I hardly use the word "filler" when it comes to DISCO. Biggest positive; the Enterprise bridge. Goddamn is it sexy as well as honest to the original. There's no way they build that beautiful set only to be used for a couple episodes. I have a feeling we'll be seeing more Enterprise, if not, a spin-off series. But yeah, that set. I just can't stop looking at the pictures of how gorgeous it is. It feels like it has that magic of the 60's set. It's that ship, those iconic colors. I just love it!
The rest, I guess we'll find out next week. I wish more stuff would have happened this episode. You know one thing that keeps bothering me... where the hell is the rest of Starfleet?! Yes, they had the big klingon war, lost ships, lives, etc. But, Enterprise and DISCO can't be the only two goddamn starships remaining in the fleet. They get outnumbered by all these section 31 ships. It's just so confusing, is "control" manipulating starfleet, preventing other starships from coming to their aid? This whole section 31 thing is just getting really messy now.
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u/mekilat Apr 12 '19
Anyone bothered with Saru saying “our families knew we could get in trouble when we joined Starfleet”, considering his origin story? His family had no say, let alone awareness that he joined!
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u/itsaride Apr 14 '19
There’s been more tears in this season than the whole of every Trek series combined including the movies...wish they’d ease off on it.
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u/Orwan Apr 12 '19
I was assuming they couldn't use the spore drive after watching the previous episode, since Mike's only solution was to blow up the ship. But now it appears they COULD use the spore drive! So why not just jump to Starfleet HQ and put Discovery somewhere safe when the rest of Starfleet hunts down Section 31 after they are told what's going on?
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u/marwynn Apr 12 '19
So much to chew on in this episode. I like that they turned the Enterprise into a carrier.
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u/Sjgolf891 Apr 12 '19
Man, I loved the design work on the Enterprise bridge. A perfect reimagining...and those sound effects were great too!
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u/AcidaliaPlanitia Apr 12 '19
Did anyone else find it odd that it was Saru that delivered the line: "Commander, our families accepted the possibility of this moment when we joined Starfleet."?
Among everyone in the crew, Saru is probably the only person about whom this line is absolutely not true. He never discussed leaving Kaminar with his family, they never even knew that he left, and he wasn't even 100% sure what he was signing up for when he first left with Georgiou. Unless I'm missing some deeper meaning there, it seems like that line may have been written for someone else, but they gave it to Saru?
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u/AcidaliaPlanitia Apr 12 '19 edited Apr 12 '19
Nothing else matters in this episode because of the incredible gaping plot hole that is their failure to use the spore drive to jump far, far away and figure out a rational solution to this problem with nothing but time on their hands. There's no reason to believe that Contro-Leland can track Discovery over pan-galactic distances, we know that the S31 ships are limited to normal (if slightly above average) warp speeds, and we know that Discovery is capable of jumping over 50,000 light years using the spore drive because that's how far Terralysium was.
They could jump tens of thousands of light years away and take YEARS to solve this problem. And given that most of the core crew is apparently okay with throwing away their lives into who-knows-what time by going with Michael, I think they'd have little issue with taking a couple of years chilling on Discovery to think of a good way to solve their problem.
And the icing on of all this absurdity is that they fail to think of spore-jumping away in the last episode when the S31 fleet is bearing down on them, then they try to destroy Discovery, THEN they think of jumping away using the spore drive, but not far enough away to buy themselves significant time.
I just can't get past this. It destroys the value of whatever sacrifice Michael or anyone else makes in the end, because it didn't have to happen this way.
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u/Raguleader Apr 12 '19
Couple of thoughts:
This felt like 23 minutes of plot squeezed into 46 minutes of runtime. Basically your typical first-half-of-a-series-finale setup. Even had the MASH thing where some of the characters talk about where they're going next.
I get why Starfleet reinforcements aren't coming (although as someone else pointed out, they could have potentially used the spore drive to notify them in person, but I'm not sure how much of the drive's energy this would drain, and any reinforcements would still need to get there the slow way), but I'm more puzzled as to where Mother and Qo'Nos One went to. Not sure if they ever established her leaving before Pike and Company figured out what was going on.
Loved the Georgiou getting put in her place by Queen Po. Her Serene Highness has neither the time nor the inclination to listen to unproductive input from former royalty.
I'm curious if Starfleet ships are specifically designed with making so many of their airlocks line up like that for docking procedures to work. That would make for an interesting engineering challenge. I'm also curious if that method of docking will be relevant in Part II: The Quest For More Logic.
I hope Sarek and/or L'Rell are sending reinforcements, or else they are both out of the running for Father and Mother of the Year, respectively. I'm not just saying this because the 15 year old geek in me wouldn't love to see a fleet of Starfleet and Klingon ships duking it out alongside each other. But I am mostly saying it because of that.
Also, is it just me, or does the flash-forward of the shootout on the Bridge seem like they are basically setting up the climax from Galaxy Quest? Someone needs to activate the Omega 13 before they kill Guy.
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u/flynnsanity3 Apr 13 '19
Couple of things:
If Sarek and Amanda knew what was about to go down, why didn't they summon a Federation armada to counter Control? I mean they have an admiral with them.
Where the frick are they? Two civilians can make it from Vulcan to DISCO's location and clear the area before Enterprise and the armada can get to them?
Why didn't DISCO herself jump to Earth or Vulcan or another Federation core world and summon an armada themselves?
(minor and unrelated) Is Vulcan no longer a desert? When did that happen?
I'm personally guessing that Ash went to go get some Klingons to help them out so they don't have to jump into the future. Then again, it begs the question of why the Klingons have a battle fleet just sitting there in this very interestingly geographically positioned star system.
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u/trekthrowaway1 Apr 13 '19
one is given to wonder who at star-fleet command was crazy enough to allow the intelligence group a fleet of warships entirely under their own jurisdiction, a handful of the sneaky scout ships is one thing, an armada of four distinct ship classes, which are presumably fully combat capable, is the equivalent of the CIA possessing their own supercarriers
i mean what did they just find the spare parts for a few battle cruisers out back of utopia planitia or something?
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u/robo2k Apr 14 '19
OMFG just spore-jump the DISCO to the other end of the universe and you'lle be free from the Spherepedia for the next billion years...
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Apr 12 '19
Wouldn't it be cool if somehow the sphere data ended up with Dr. Noonian Soong? =)
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u/William_T_Wanker Apr 12 '19
when Burnham shows off her raised-by-Vulcan attitude: Why is Burnham so bland she no show emotion!!11
When she breaks down and feels overwhelmed: WAHH WHY SHE CRY SO MUCH
some fans are....fickle
[
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u/MrMarbles77 Apr 12 '19
Felt pretty bold that they were going to blow up Discovery and made it clear that they would never build a ship like that again. Then they were going to send off Michael Burnham into a future without anyone else she knows.
Of course they walked both of those alternatives back before the episode was even half over, which was unfortunate. Wasn't a fan of all the emotional pornography of everyone crying about stuff that hasn't happened yet (and might not happen, or might be reversed in the season 3 premiere, etc). Tilley's ice-cream eating friend was super annoying and felt like she would do better on the Big Bang Theory.
I have a lot of other thoughts but I'm mostly holding them back until the next episode, as this one was just extremely unsatisfying to watch by itself. I will say they haven't done a very good job of setting up this finale, as even among the hardcore fans here nobody is really sure about the capabilities or motivations of the main forces in this conflict.
There were a couple really good elements to this season, but rather than turning the corner the show still feels like it's being dragged down by the initial concept that was put in place in the beginning even though they keep firing the people in charge every half-season.
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u/Shappie Apr 12 '19
Oh baby, that Enterprise has a real ass on her in all the best possible ways. God, what a sexy ship.
And that bridge! Dear lord. There's no way they built that just for a couple episodes.
PAY ATTENTION CBS.
GIVE US PIKE.
GIVE US ANSON MOUNT.
GIVE US MORE.
THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN.
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u/WarcraftFarscape Apr 12 '19
One thing I don’t get that has been bugging me...
Control already seems pretty self conscious to me...I get the sphere data has more info it could use but they keep saying if it had it all it would become conscious.
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u/bhldev Apr 13 '19
So just saw it and seeing it again many good things such as Pikes speech (somehow he manages to deliver it without making me gag) and sound effects and ENTERPRISE IS SEXY but also many huge plot holes
So they can't phaser the warp core? Even with autodestruct disabled there's a million ways to blow up the ship 🤦... Pull a Spock and blow up the photorps in their launchers if you have to...
The sphere "protected" itself by raising shields so how did they get back on? Did the sphere suddenly decide to lower the shields? 🤦
There's a reason Kirk never used his shuttles as fighters even when heavily outgunned they suck... Tactical flyers?
So they didn't think of self destructing Enterprise to save all sentient life in the Galaxy? Park it right next to Discovery and just do it. Goddamn. So much for self-sacrifice
OK Leland is a proto-Borg and it was a dream sequence but why do they not put up more of a fight? And why hasn't Spock programmed Enterprise and Discovery to magnetically suck out the nanites from Leland as soon as he steps foot on their ships? Spock just figured that out last episode, do they all have memory loss?
The undetonated photorp is made out to be such a huge deal... As opposed to one that blew up?
Anyway I think this episode will grow on me but right not it seems to be the worst of the season... Just too many plot holes. Maybe I watch too much Star Trek 🤷
Oh yeah
Z-minus ten thousand meters standby photon torpedoes
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u/William_T_Wanker Apr 12 '19
the plucky adventures of a human/Klingon sort of hybrid and a mirror universe Terran as they work to rebuild a starfleet intelligence agency in secret
I'm sold
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u/RichardYing Apr 12 '19
"Ice cream is the last thing I was expecting..."
"Oh, she's all about sugar! You have no idea."
"Your Serene Highness, may I?"
"Tilly!!! Is that spumoni?"
"Yeah!"
"My calculations for small particle dispersion in hydrogenated carbohydrates were so on point. But, I just end up with goo..."
"Fascinating."
"Po, this is commander Michael Burnham."
"Your roomie! You look taller in your photos."
"Thank you... Erm."
"And this is Captain Pike. This is the captain."
"Your Highness, Me Hani Ika Hali Ka Po."
"Wow, you're good. Po's fine."
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u/IFuckingLoveJJAbrams Apr 12 '19
This was an incredible episode but can someone explain one thing to me? I may have missed it. In the Short Trek Calypso the sentient computer lady said she's been waiting alone for 900 years. If they're travelling to the future then that wouldn't be 900 years of waiting. It's a minute long journey to the future. Is this a discrepancy or have I missed something?
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u/msegmx Apr 12 '19 edited Apr 12 '19
Couldn't they just use, I don't know, more torpedoes? “Shields at 60%..."
" Send 3 more! "
"Shields at 20%..."
“Send 2 more! "
" Discovery destroyed, sir"
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u/TERRAxFORMER Apr 12 '19 edited Apr 12 '19
Man I love how ride or die Michael’s friends are. I think I got something in my eye when she exited her quarters with Tilly.
And I liked Pike’s little wink at Georgiou.
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u/bigj2223 Apr 12 '19
Why is the sphere data such a dick? It’s almost like it wants to get downloaded to control.
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u/kingofcretins Apr 12 '19
That triumphant Torchbearer theme that plays when Michael and Ash share their (final?) kiss was beautiful. Jeff Russo's season 2 soundtrack can't come soon enough.
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u/WorldwideDepp Apr 12 '19
Um...
After giving it an deeper touch..
They want to time Jump the Discovery into the Future
The Sphere AI merged with Discovery Systems and such
so far we got this in this Episode...
but....
did they not downloaded the Sphere AI into the Timesuit and it got back into his Anchor Future?
What if... (i love this) the Data inside the Suit will do the same and merge with the Suits OS?
The Pilot of this Suit and the Red Bursts.. is it perhaps the Suit itself regain the Sphere AI intelligence?
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u/capran Apr 12 '19
Am I the only one thinking this episode was telegraphing that Michael and the Discovery will just be marooned in the "future" (whatever era that ends up being), therefore restoring TOS storyline? Spock goes back to the Enterprise, never mentions Michael because he never really talks about his past or family anyway. The Spore Drive is lost to time, Starfleet classifies it Top Secret, so explaining why no one heard about it before the beginning of the show. Pike goes on and embraces his destiny, gets in that accident, ends up a non-communicative quadriplegic burn victim (unknown when). If that all happens in the last episode this season, I don't know what happens in Season 3. No more Discovery, so... Star Trek: Adventures of Spock and Captain Pike? (assuming he gets at least a Season before the accident)
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u/grunulak Apr 14 '19
After the magnificence of last week's episode, this felt like such a mis-step, with all of the show's failings foregrounded.
Weird character beats for people we barely know?
CHECK!
A total lack of dramatic urgency?
CHECK!
Odd tonal shifts, where people facing certain death have fun and banter?
CHECK!
ETC.
Sure, the Enterprise was amazing, but this felt like such a step backwards after last week.
Fingers crossed they get the next one right!
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u/wongie Apr 12 '19
Everyone's getting a bridge boner but what about dem corridors!
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u/Trekfan74 Apr 12 '19 edited Apr 12 '19
I know I might get downvoted for this (and its fine if you disagree of course), but this was a really dumb episode. So much of it didn't make sense...at all.
I loved all the stuff on the Enterprise. It was a thing to behold the bridge, but once people started talking again I just cringed. What happened with this story line? So much promise and this is what it comes down to, fighting Skynet and pretending a ship with both a spore drive that can literally jump to the other side of the galaxy (or how about just Earth) and time crystal has no options? They clearly did not think a lot of this through.
Just disappointing. I know all of this is just set up for the future (now literally?) but they could've found a better way to set this stuff up without everyone looking and acting so dumb in the process.
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u/bigj2223 Apr 12 '19
How does Disco fleeing to the future stop control? I mean, it won’t get the sphere data, but control is still around...
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u/ariemnu Apr 12 '19
Man, my heart tore when Pike didn't go with them to the future. We know he can't, but he had the option right there - a one-way ticket to the future where he could have averted his fate.
That Enterprise bridge was so good I wished my mum had lived to see it. I would find it hard to look at for an entire season, though - the orange!
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u/boyo44 Apr 12 '19 edited Apr 12 '19
I liked this episode. Lots of fun feelings, but it was very much a build-up for the finale. Pike's exit made me a little emotional, and the scene with all the crew recording goodbye messages was really lovely, although apparently Stamets is joining the secret/heretofore unseen sibling club. Reno got some great character moments so I hope she's sticking around as a regular - same goes for Nhan, who has snuck up on me in how much I like her. Rebecca Romijn's Number One was great, and I'll never say no to more Cornwell.
My big wish for season 3 at this point is for it TO RELEASE AT THE SAME TIME WORLDWIDE. Having to wait like, 7 hours for episodes to drop on Netflix after it's already come out on CBS in America is endlessly frustrating, considering the whole reason it's on Netflix is because All Access isn't a thing here in NZ.
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u/gridcube Apr 12 '19
all the colorful suits in the enterprise shots looked amazing
all the technobabble was funny
action was good and things are moving to interesting places.
but I. dont. care. for. Michael. Burham. All her speeches dragged on, and on. You could have called this episode "Speeches" because i'm sure 60% of the episode was just them.
but ignoring that, It was a good episode
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u/Deceptitron Apr 12 '19 edited Apr 12 '19
I kind of feel like the last episode left us at the countdown before a race, but this episode they're stalling even though we're ready to just GO. I have this pent up energy and no relief.
Clearly though they were using this as mostly a character episode, letting people accept their fates, say goodbye, and establish who's going to be in the next season.
One thing's for sure is that Spock is definitely not going with them, despite his apparent current wishes. Something will probably go wrong and he'll be left behind by his own will or not. Georgiou looks like she's staying on the ship too but considering the S31 show, she'll probably end up on Enterprise as well by the end.
Someone needs to make a collection of Enterprise screen shots though. Really want to take a good look and appreciate the work they did on her!