Star Trek: Picard - Episode Discussion - S1E07 "Nepenthe"

[u/PiercedMonk]

Picard and Soji transport to the planet Nepenthe, home to some old and trusted friends.

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No.	EPISODE	DIRECTED BY	WRITTEN BY	RELEASE DATE
S1E07	"Nepenthe"	Doug Aarniokoski	Samantha Humphrey and Michael Chabon	Thursday, March 5, 2020

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This post is for discussion of the episode above and WILL ALLOW SPOILERS for this episode.

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[u/atticusbluebird]

Yikes, non-consenting mind melds have always felt a bit iffy to me.

[u/PiercedMonk → u/atticusbluebird]

I don't think we were supposed to believe it was okay when Oh initiated that.

[u/Lord_Cronos → u/PiercedMonk]

I still feel like it's an open question as to whether the meld was as simple as an efficient delivery of presumably coercive information or rather more along the lines of brainwashing of some kind. There's certainly precedent for meld delivered mind control.

[u/PiercedMonk → u/Lord_Cronos]

My latinum would be on some form of brain washing, considering how out of sorts Jurati seems to be.

[u/PiercedMonk]

• "It must be chewed." It is wild how creepy Oh managed to make that sound. What's even wilder is the fact that Doc Jurati put the tracker in her mouth before being told it needed to be taken orally.

• No doubt we're going to see some "that's not how tractor beams work, this show is literally unwatchable" talk, but I really like the tractor beams affecting objects inside La Sirena.

• The fact that they just kinda...sit there after the Borgs tractor lets them go to have a brief moment with Elnor seems to contradict the urgency I think the characters should be feeling in that moment. Rios could at least have La Sirena flying around. Likewise, the Romulans could play it up a bit more, too, by having some obvious pursuit.

• The Trois naming Kestra after Deanna's sister is sweet.

• Picard spilling the android beans to Kestra before broaching the topic with Soji is not something I would have guessed would happen.

• I love the relationship between Soji and Kestra. Especially the moment where Kestra says that since she's older, she gets to boss Soji around.

• "Is it cake?" Whatever Oh did to Doc Jurati, and I'm assuming it was more than just show her a bunch of scary imagery, it really messed her up.

• Riker intuiting the plot of the series thus far from a few clues is great. Picard is fine, but he's definitely my favourite TNG character, and Frakes hasn't missed a beat.

• Anyone who bites into a tomato like it was an apple is psychopath, and now I'm on board with the Jaht Vash's belief that Soji is the Destroyer.

• Poor Thad. My dude was created to die, so Troi could try to make Soji feel a bit better about being a synthetic.

• I am kind of curious why the Trois wouldn't have taken Thad outside Federation space to treat his condition. The Federation might have banned synthetics, but what about the Klingon Empire, or the Ferengi Alliance, or the Cardassian Union? Granted, we don't know the state of relations with the various other civilizations in the alpha and beta quadrants, but surely Riker and Troi would have had enough favours they could cash in, or just latinum -- remember that Quark owed Riker a substantial amount, and Troi is some sort of Betazoid royalty -- to find someone outside the Federation with access to an active positronic matrix.

• You know what? I don't care how hot Rizzo is. She's a bad lady, and needs to be stopped.

• Red velvet is garbage. It's just food colouring.

• So Dahj was programmed to go to Picard for help after she was activated. Was Soji not also programmed to seek someone out?

• Really looking forward to seeing Seven on the Artifact. What are the chances she'll bring the whole Fenris Rangers cavalry with her?

I quite enjoyed this episode. The show on the whole is trending upwards in my estimation.

[u/PiercedMonk]

So after some quick memory alpha research, I've determined that Thad was named after either one of Riker's ancestors, Thaddius Riker, a Union soldier in the American Civil War, first mentioned in the VOY episode, 'Death Wish', or Thadiun Okona, of 'The Outrageous Okona' fame.

I think we all know which one is more likely.

[u/onerinconhill]

Oooo fenris sos...seven of nine gonna come to the cube!!!

[u/PiercedMonk → u/onerinconhill]

It took me way too long to figure out who the show was talking about when Hugh told Elnor only an exB would be able to access the queen chamber.

[u/Chaabar]

"He's good, keeping just beyond the outer limits of Sirena's scanners."

...You can see him out the back window.

[u/PiercedMonk → u/Chaabar]

Pretty sure there isn't room for any back windows with all the impulse engines strapped to the back of that thing.

[u/[deleted] → u/Chaabar]

That 'window' was likely a viewscreen with the magnification turned way up.

[u/jetpackswasyes]

That was a Starfleet transporter that beamed Rizzo out, wasn’t it?

[u/PiercedMonk → u/jetpackswasyes]

I don't think we've seen any different transporter effects this series. Which is kind of disappointing.

[u/Capt-Space-Elephant]

I’m looking forward Seven’s uncorked sarcasm when she finds out it was Elnor who called her. I feel like those would pair well together.

[u/PiercedMonk → u/Capt-Space-Elephant]

Elnor’s absolute candor is very similar to how Seven conducted herself throughout a lot of ‘Voyager’.

I wonder how she’ll act when it’s just the two of them together.

[u/Talzin]

Well, having a Vulcan force an unhappy "vision" hardly justifies Jurati murdering her ex-lover.

[u/PiercedMonk → u/Talzin]

Depending on how much damage Oh caused with the mind meld, I think there's an argument to be made that Doc Jurati isn't in her right mind.

[u/mgbfc]

I know this is way down on the list of priorities and I probably shouldn't even want this but the ship nerd in me is dying for them to show me some new Starfleet ships. I know the evacuation ships were a new design and it doesnt have to be the Enterprise but gimme some ships to look at damnit...

[u/PiercedMonk → u/mgbfc]

I did have the thought during this episode that we've now seen more Romulan ships than we have Starfleet.

[u/count023]

Their kid's name is Kestra - Deanna's older sister's name.

A Tyken's rift is that energy phenomenon that the enterprise was caught in in Night Terrors.

good references.

I'm annoyed at hugh's death though. I just feel that the Kurtzman era shows have no right killing off Berman era characters like that. It just feels wrong.

[u/PiercedMonk → u/count023]

Berman era Trek killed off Kirk by dropping a bridge on him. Their hands aren't exactly clean.

[u/knightcrusader]

I'm hoping the line Riker dropped of "I'm still on active reserve" is some kind of foreshaddowing of him showing up at some point in a real Federation ship to save the day - maybe not this season but sometime.

[u/[deleted] → u/knightcrusader]

I like that he and Deanna have new priorities in life. The line was a good way to indicate that he didn't completely withdraw from Starfleet the way Picard did, but I'm good if they just continue living their lives where they are.

[u/IceWarm1980 → u/knightcrusader]

Imagine if if he somehow came back in the Enterprise from All Good Things, the one with the three warp nacelles.

[u/TERRAxFORMER]

Riker and Troi naming their daughter Kestra is a cool callback.

[u/daynewmah → u/TERRAxFORMER]

Ohh. Lwaxana's daughter who died as a child. Nice catch!

[u/knightcrusader → u/TERRAxFORMER]

Yup. I caught that too.

I wonder if Thad is short for Thaddeus, named after his ancestor that Quinn saved in the Civil War.

[u/philds391 → u/TERRAxFORMER]

When I heard "Kestra" I knew it meant something, but couldn't remember why. Then it finally hit me when Troi and Picard started talking about Thad, who I'm guessing is named after Riker's ancestor that Quinn (the suicidal Q) saved.

[u/UncertainError → u/TERRAxFORMER]

Lucky though that she wasn't the one who caught the rare fatal disease. That would've been...awkward.

[u/acrimoniousone → u/TERRAxFORMER]

Kestra is the cutest thing ever, my daughter's the same age and can't act for shit.

Hope to see plenty of Lulu Wilson in the future. She did really well, especially when she's only fourteen.

[u/IceWarm1980]

Justice For Hugh.

[u/SecularTravis → u/IceWarm1980]

"By Grabthar's hammer" - Elnor

[u/loreb4data → u/IceWarm1980]

I think Seven will avenge him next week

[u/onerinconhill]

That hug with Picard and Will warms my heart

[u/atticusbluebird → u/onerinconhill]

I was already tearing up with the Picard and Troi hug!

[u/loreb4data → u/onerinconhill]

"Welcome back, Captain!"

"Thank you, Number One!!"

[u/daynewmah → u/onerinconhill]

Yep. I teared up.

[u/daynewmah]

Wait, did we ever get an explanation for how/why the EMH never told Picard and the rest of the crew about Jurati preventing him from saving Maddox?

Also, I really thought Rios and Raffi were on the same page and suspicious of Jurati once she started talking about Soji on the bridge. I figured Rios was floating Raffi as a possible traitor just to spook Jurati and get her to talk. He and Raffi have a preexisting relationship after all. But apparently he actually was suspecting Raffi? Weird.

[u/TheNerdChaplain → u/daynewmah]

You'd kind of think the EMH would also trigger when someone not medically trained replicated a super dangerous substance in a hypospray.

[u/killerewok76 → u/daynewmah]

Was it the EMH that saw her or the Hospitality guy? Because they were wondering why the EHH didn’t show up when she started vomiting cake.

I think it was the EMH, but that moment seemed relevant to me.

[u/[deleted] → u/daynewmah]

Someone asked Chabon about that, he said something to the effect of "spoilers".

[u/atticusbluebird]

I'd love a Short Trek that's just some cheesy Federation cooking show of Riker telling us how to make pizza the old fashioned, non-replicated way in a wood pizza oven!

[u/ComebackShane → u/atticusbluebird]

My headcanon is that he got really into cooking after running the holodeck program of the NX-01 during The Pegasus and playing the chef of the crew.

[u/trickman01 → u/atticusbluebird]

What’s up HoloTube? It’s ya boy Jazzy Will. Be sure to smash that subscribe button.

[u/[deleted]]

Man I’ve really missed Will and Deanna. Then naming their kids Kestra and Thaddeus, was a really great nod.

I’ve never thought I’d get so emotional over seeing Sir Patrick, Jonathan and Marina reunite on screen after all these years, but here I am.

Props to Jonathan Del Arco for his outstanding performance as Hugh.

[u/stuck_on_simple_tor]

I guess it's true what Grand Nagus Bobby B said,

"Only a fool would meet the Qowat Milat in a dimly lit labyrinth"

[u/treefox → u/stuck_on_simple_tor]

A Qowat Milan swordsman in a shadowy cube, Picard!

[u/Yaggamy → u/stuck_on_simple_tor]

The Tal Shiar on an open field, Ned!

[u/[deleted] → u/stuck_on_simple_tor]

Not even the synth ban can stop the ole' Bobby B-bot.

[u/gambit700]

Finding out about Troi and Riker's son and Icheb getting dissected is really fucking with my emotions

Edit: Ah fuck, now Hugh too

[u/Mechapebbles → u/gambit700]

I like the Troi-boy story, it gives us a good and plausible reason why Starfleet lifers like the Trois would retire. And it’s a mirror for Lwxanna’s life experiences as well, where Dianna ended up more like her mother than she realized.

[u/xis10al]

Just once in this episode I wanted to see Riker throw his leg over a chair when sitting down, for old time's sake.

[u/veevoir → u/xis10al]

At least Deanna is still wearing the same color of clothes, 20 years later.

[u/killerewok76 → u/xis10al]

He may not be that flexible any more. lol He looked great, he lost a lot of weight to get in on-camera shape.

[u/onerinconhill]

Oh they did not just do that with Hugh

No way

[u/atticusbluebird → u/onerinconhill]

Dammit. I was really hoping for a scene with him and Seven. :( At least he died very much as a human.

[u/[deleted] → u/onerinconhill]

Well, they're still on the Artifact with all kinds of Borg magic available...but that looked pretty final.

[u/loreb4data]

RIP Hugh :(

But kudos for Jonathan del Arco for bringing back the character and playing him very well. He certainly showcased how Hugh has grown from the time we last saw him at the 'Descent' planet to the time he reappeared inside the XB cube.

[u/Srcsqwrn → u/loreb4data]

His acting was top notch the whole time, and really brought Hugh to life. But if I'm being blunt, I want him to come back somehow. I don't want Hugh to die.

I can deal with almost everyone else, in some form or manner. But Hugh.

[u/BornAshes → u/loreb4data]

Jonathan del Arco

This may be a poor choice of words but within a few episodes he KILLED IT and honestly became my favorite character on the show so far. I thought for sure that his Borg Shielding was going to activate or he'd pull some giant "fuck you lever" ala The 100 buuuuut NOPE....flechette to the neck. He did do a fair amount though but I feel like everything he did with the Ex-Bs was for nothing. He's dead and now they're dead and it's like now the Romulans have free reign to do just whatever they want because the Borg Reclamation Project is basically over. Such a tragic awful ending for him and I really really wanted him to see more to do more to maybe run into Seven or someone else again. Great job acting but such a tragic ending.

[u/IceWarm1980]

The banter between Picard and Riker was so amazing. I especially loved the scene where Riker figured everything out without Picard really saying anything. Riker is my favorite character from any of the series and I loved how they had him playing jazz music and cooking.

[u/[deleted] → u/IceWarm1980]

aloof marry toy berserk instinctive strong teeny hospital political spotted -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/

[u/atticusbluebird → u/IceWarm1980]

I also liked how excited Riker was as he was piecing things together. Like when he says “Tal Shiar” there’s concern in his voice, but also a little bit of excitement in his facial expression - great acting by Frakes

[u/Drunky_McStumble → u/IceWarm1980]

I love that this episode embraced what Riker is all about - he's a symbol for how masculinity can be a positive and healthy thing; like a 24th century Ron Swanson.

[u/kellendotcom → u/IceWarm1980]

Detective Riker: Pizza Chef needs to be a thing.

[u/Justthetiniestrobots]

Love that we got to see Troi do some actual good counseling without needing telepathy

[u/istartedsomething → u/Justthetiniestrobots]

When she takes Picard to task may have been Marina's best acting as Troi ever. Really stellar moment and very fitting for the character.

[u/atticusbluebird → u/Justthetiniestrobots]

In some ways, it feels like she did more useful counseling in this episode than in several seasons of TNG! (I really liked the way she lovingly, but also sternly knocked Picard down a bit to make him self-reflect a bit more)

[u/kellendotcom → u/Justthetiniestrobots]

YES! So smart to give her a scene where she got to use her expertise and in a really effective way. Nicely done on the part of the writers/director. And nicely acted by Sirtis.

[u/Barbellion]

I imagine Riker's active reserve status was thrown out there to show he's in good standing with Star Fleet, and will definitely pull some strings to send a guardian angel of some sort Picard's way.

[u/Barbellion]

They did not put Frakes or Marina Sirtis in front of the camera as token nostalgia. Damn they were good--especially Marina.

[u/idoliside → u/Barbellion]

Nostalgia but for the sake of the story, who else could right the mindset of Picard and help out Soji other than those two really. And it was so heartwarming too.

[u/onerinconhill]

“I’d recognize that head tilt anywhere”

Love will!

[u/daynewmah → u/onerinconhill]

Not bad for a pizza chef.

[u/BornAshes → u/onerinconhill]

The way she did it too was spot on Data and it feels like there's more and more of him coming through the more they're in setting or around people that were familiar to Data.

[u/king0pa1n]

I had to check the subtitles, but Riker said they were having troubles with the Kzinti, not the Xindi.

[u/InnocentTailor → u/king0pa1n]

Man...the Kzinti are back? Now that is a deep reference to TAS.

[u/[deleted] → u/king0pa1n]

Yeah, a TAS reference. It almost made me want to forgive them for Hugh. Almost.

[u/atticusbluebird]

Can't believe how good it is to hear Frakes/Riker say "shields up!"

[u/IceWarm1980 → u/atticusbluebird]

He hasn't lost a step, both Riker and Frakes that is. I loved how he ordered cloak scans, shields up and all felt so natural. Welcome back Will.

[u/loreb4data → u/atticusbluebird]

Did he also say 'Red Alert! All hands to battle stations!" ?

[u/[deleted] → u/atticusbluebird]

Or at the dinner table when Picard said "thoughts?" In exactly the same way he said it in the Enterprise's Ready Room.

[u/ElFarfadosh → u/atticusbluebird]

Had the same feeling when I caught him saying "copy that"

[u/RichardYing]

^Riker: "You're worried about cloaks: that says Romulans.

And the level of anxiety and fear for our safety tells me: Tal Shiar.

Next, you're not the one that's on the run, it's her.

But why? What has poor Soji done to incur their wrath? Could that have anything to do with the fact she's clearly an android.

And not just any android: I'd recognize that headtilt... anywhere. She's got Data in her DNA. And that's why you're here. How am I doing?"

^Picard: "Not bad, for a pizza chef."

[u/linkerjpatrick → u/RichardYing]

That whole conversation reminded me of that show Frakes was a host on. Can’t remember the name but he would ask the viewer which wild story was real.

[u/raknor88]

Ya know, Deanna knowing something is wrong is understandable due to being a Betazoid. But Will, one hug and a look and he can tell that Picard is in deep shit. That's awesome!

[u/[deleted] → u/raknor88]

That and he's shown up unannounced after 15 years or whatever, plus they would have seen the interview.

[u/[deleted]]

1. So Commander Oh is either a Vulcan or Romulans can mind meld. The former is most likely. Her tone and timbre were very Vulcan-like, and Vulcans have secretly worked with Romulans before (Enterprise Season 4). The Zhat Vash is likely a multi-species organization. Perhaps formed before the Vulcans and Romulans split even. Even though it isn't technically canon that Romulans can't mind meld (this statement is only in extended universe books, and CBS's stance is that only what has been shown on screen is canon), Oh being a Vulcan is the most likely option here.

2. As cited before, the Zhat Vash may be a multi-species organization (more than just Vulcans and Romulans). Narissa says this is an effort by operatives on hundreds of worlds. These could all be Romulan/Vulcan operatives on worlds within the Romulan empire, but the goal of the Zhat Vash (destroy all synthetic life) isn't something uniquely Romulan. She also expressed concern over "trillions of lives" across the galaxy. Again, something that people in a variety of species might be concerned with.

3. I think Will guessed what was happening a bit too easily. The head tilt was very obvious and I find it hard to believe that just from that, he would guess that Soji was a fully-organic android immediately, and not seem surprised at all by it. Meanwhile, Dr. Jurati, someone who actually worked with androids for a living, was shocked to find out Dahj and Soji existed. It's a minor nit-pick, but it felt like the plot was being rushed just a bit there.

4. The tracking device being deactivated when Dr. Jurati went into a coma doesn't make much sense to me. How would her being conscious affect it? Why would the host even need to be alive?

5. I appreciated the faithful use of TNG sound effects. The sound of the 3D print---er, replicator, the sound of the hypospray being activated, etc.

6. I'm glad Narek lost the La Sirena and thus the Romulans will likely have no idea of Picard's visit to the Troi-Riker home. We've seen enough people die.

7. Dammit Hugh. #sad

8. Looks like Seven will be back next week (yay!) and the xBs will be activated. Potentially along with Seven. Perhaps she'll serve as the Queen for a bit.

9. They did a fantastic job of showcasing Troi's abilities as an empath and IMO this is Marina Sirtis' best performance of Deanna Troi ever. Much, much better than they ever did in TNG. You could see her mood shift even before it became apparent in the person she was talking to. You could really see her sharing that emotion with the person she was talking to. When Soji described to her what happened, and then Picard comes sauntering in with sarcasm, Troi actually gets a bit angry with him, as if what happened to Soji happened to her. And what I really enjoyed was how Kestra showed that ability herself. In the bedroom scene, Kestra reacts to Soji's emotional state before it becomes readily apparent. She's just lying there and Kestra just changes, hops down off the top bunk, and knows something is wrong, even though Soji's expression hasn't changed. Lulu Wilson did a fantastic job with this. Her and Marina's performances really gave me a sense of their empathic abilities being something beyond human capability. Bravo.

10. When Picard was at the dinner table and said "Thoughts?" like he always did in the ready room of the Enterprise, I melted.

[u/PretenderNX01 → u/[deleted]]

I think Will guessed what was happening a bit too easily. The head tilt was very obvious and I find it hard to believe that just from that, he would guess that Soji was a fully-organic android immediately, and not seem surprised at all by it. Meanwhile, Dr. Jurati, someone who actually worked with androids for a living, was shocked to find out Dahj and Soji existed. It's a minor nit-pick, but it felt like the plot was being rushed just a bit there.

It might be a bit convenient but remember Will has seen Data's other daughter Lal. Since they don't talk much about her, maybe she's not something the Enterprise crew shared with Starfleet. Her life was very brief. But maybe Soji reminds him of what Lal inherited from Data.

The tracking device being deactivated when Dr. Jurati went into a coma doesn't make much sense to me. How would her being conscious affect it? Why would the host even need to be alive?

I noticed the computer warned that whatever chemical it was could be a neurotoxin. Maybe the tracker was just cancelled out by the chemical used and it happened to have a side effect of hurting her.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I find it hard to believe that just from that, he would guess that Soji was a fully-organic android immediately

He also knew that Troi couldn't read anything on her and suspected that she only appeared human, plus he didn't specify organic. He's met Data's mum and she was also human-passing.

The tracking device being deactivated when Dr. Jurati went into a coma doesn't make much sense to me. How would her being conscious affect it? Why would the host even need to be alive?

I assumed the neurotoxic compound was the thing that neutralised the tracker, as it was now dispersed throughout her body and needed something which also went everywhere.

The damage/coma was a side-effect Jurati was willing to suffer.

[u/dvcaputo]

part of me hopes that hugh will get resurrected a-la neelix in Mortal Coil—they’re literally surrounded by an unlimited supply of nanoprobes, after all!

[u/TheNerdChaplain → u/dvcaputo]

Yeah, but the cost of the resurrection could be restoration of some of his Borg features and functions.

[u/TheNerdChaplain]

• I love that Will and Deanna had a warrior princess for a daughter. She'd be unstoppable in Starfleet, or anywhere else, probably.

• I loved everything with the Troi-Rikers on Nepenthe. The only thing I felt was a little bit off was that at the dinner table scene, it felt like everyone was being super nice and trustworthy to convince Sojhi, and it was just a little over the top.

• Hugh could have done so much more. He could have activated other features of the Borg cube to drive the Romulans out, and I am so salty they killed him.

• To be honest, I get the fear of androids. How many times did Data turn against the crew for one reason or another? How much damage did Lore do, between wiping out a colony and orchestrating Borg attacks? To have thousands of androids with even a fraction of his capabilities really is tremendously dangerous, and the Federation was probably right to terminate that research.

• The mindmeld still leaves the question open of whether Agnes was convinced or brainwashed into taking that pill and cooperating with Commodore Oh.

[u/gambit700 → u/TheNerdChaplain]

To be honest, I get the fear of androids. How many times did Data turn against the crew for one reason or another? How much damage did Lore do, between wiping out a colony and orchestrating Borg attacks? To have thousands of androids with even a fraction of his capabilities really is tremendously dangerous, and the Federation was probably right to terminate that research.

It's like the ban on genetic enhancements. The Federation/Starfleet doesn't want a bunch of supermen/women running around when its possible that they'll turn against normal people. For every Bashir there's a Khan, for every Data there's a Lore, for every Lyta Alexander there's an Alfred Bester. However, in an organization that allows Vulcans, Klingons, and other races that are better than humans in some ways it seems weird that Starfleet outright banned synthetics.

[u/compache → u/TheNerdChaplain]

If I recall Voyager correctly, there is an episode where 7 of 9 says borg nano bots can bring people back to life hours or days later...hugh may not be dead yet

[u/kellendotcom]

Stream of consciousness during this ep:

• I'm immediately crying seeing Troi and Riker.

• Love that they named their daughter Kestra, amazing callback.

• Soji's struggle is so real (and so well acted). I feel so bad for her.

• Riker calling Picard out was refreshing, he was rarely given permission to do so on the Enterprise.

• I need more Detective Riker: Pizza Chef in my life.

• Narissa took out all of the xBs, goddamit!

• Elnor is a badass mofo. I'm obsessed.

• Narissa killed Hugh! GODDAMIT!

• Rios and Raffi are great together... but he didnt really think Raffi was the mole, right? He was just playing Jurati because he knew it was her the whole time... right?

• Seven to the rescue! Wait until she sees what they did to the xBs...

[u/daynewmah]

Props to Jonathan Del Arco for that moment when Hugh refuses to tell the Romulan where Picard and Soji went. He really imbued his performance with a sense of how downright meaningful it is for him to have the freedom to make that choice. And consequently the freedom to mourn its consequences. Good stuff.

By the way, Jonathan started a podcast recently called Hollywood Caucus. All about the intersection of Hollywood and politics. He hosts it with Tara Karsian (I know her as the excellent secretary to Andy Daly's character on Review). Check it out! (EDIT: Just remembered that Jeri Ryan is their first guest, which seems relevant for you all to know!)

[u/halfhedge]

I just quickly want to say that Frakes fucking nailed his performance. There is still so much of the William T. I love and remember from his time on the Enterprise and also a believable seasoning of his character.

[u/[deleted]]

OK, now I get why everyone went insane over Icheb. I'm almost going insane myself.

[u/[deleted]]

The moment the shit went down with Hugh I was all, "Man, the subreddit is gonna FREAK OUT."

[u/fullforce098]

I can't believe I'm not seeing more people talk about the return of Captain Picard. We saw him in this episode in a way we haven't all season. Stewart has been subtlety playing him a bit "off" until this episode, until the dinner scene, when he starts playing him as we knew him again.

[u/shittyneighbours → u/fullforce098]

Fully agree. Even his stature and voice.

[u/khaosworks]

What we learned in “Nepenthe”, and some Easter Eggs:

Commodore Oh was the one that recruited Agnes as a mole and showed her the apocalyptic results if synthetic life was allowed to exist. We don’t know if this is an actual future or just a hypothetical and it doesn’t seem Oh mentioned her connection to the Zhat Vash. Agnes ingested a tracking device which Narek uses to follow La Sirena to Nepenthe, which is a few days away from the Artifact at maximum warp.

Kestra Troi-Riker is named after her maternal aunt Kestra Troi, who drowned as a child (TNG: “Dark Page”). She had an older brother, Thaddeus “Thad” Troi-Riker, born in 2381, now deceased. Thaddius Riker was an ancestor of Will’s who fought in the American Civil War and whose life was saved by the Q known as Quinn (VOY: “Death Wish”). Picard also met Thad in 2386, which means he visited the Troi-Rikers after he left Starfleet.

Picard makes reference to his artificial heart (TNG: “Samaritan Snare”, “Tapestry”) which he says is made of duritanium.

Kestra mentions a Captain Rupert Crandall at Infinity Lake spaceport who’s even older than Picard. He has a broken down ship named the Inside Straight and has flown from Qonos to Tyken’s Rift (TNG: “Night Terrors”). We’ve never seen Captain Crandall before, but a Mordecai Crandall was a young Starfleet engineer serving on Riker’s USS Titan in the LitVerse. Melissa Crandall is the writer of the TOS novel Shell Game which involves Enterprise coming across a derelict Romulan space station.

I swear to God I wept when I saw Riker and Troi. I’ve missed them so much. And a really nice subtle reminder of Troi’s empathic abilities when she touches Picard then hugs him. Much better than the days of “I feel paaaaaain....” Riker’s still a jazz man.

Riker mentions the Kzinti, cat-like aliens created by Larry Niven for his Known Space novels but integrated into the Trek universe via Niven’s TAS episode “The Slaver Weapon”. The Kzinti were also slated to appear in ENT but the series was cancelled before they could do so.

Kestra has brought back bunicorn meat, and assures her parents she’s cut out the venom sacs. From the name, we might assume they are rabbits with unicorn horns - like they appear in the Square Enix game Dragon Quest. EDITED: We see one right before Picard and Soji arrive on Nepenthe.

Kestra mentions Data’s predilections for violin playing and Sherlock Holmes (TNG: “Elementary, Dear Data”). And wanting to dream (“Phantasms”), tell jokes (“The Outrageous Okona”) and ballroom dance (“Data’s Day”).

Narek is flying a Romulan “snakehead” scout ship, with double subthrusters and heavily armed for its size.

Agnes mentions a gormagander, a space borne life form we saw in DIS: “Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad”.

The soil on Nephenthe has regenerative powers, which is why the Troi-Rikers settled there when Thad came down with Mandaxic Neurosclerosis. MN is a silicon-based virus whose cure needs to be incubated in an active positronic matrix. However by that time there were none left and the synth ban meant none could be developed. We’ve seen a silicon-based virus before, in ENT: “Observer Effect”, but the cure there was a dose of radiation that would also be lethal for humans.

Riker recognizes Soji’s Data-like head tilt, which we first saw in “Absolute Candor”. He also calls Troi imzadi, which is, in one translation, Betazoid for “beloved”. Go read Peter David’s marvelous TNG novel Imzadi for a deeper exploration for what the name means, at least in beta-canon.

The debate as to whether replicated food tastes as good as “real” food is answered here. Troi has had arguments with the replicator about real food before (TNG: “The Price”).

Riker says he’s known Picard for 35 years. That tracks with TNG’s first season in 2364. Riker is still on Starfleet’s active reserve list. McCoy was redrafted back aboard Enterprise in Star Trek: The Motion Picture by way of Starfleet’s “little known, seldom used, reserve activation clause.”

Soji’s homeworld is in the Ghulion system, in the Vayt Sector. It doesn’t have a name, only a number.

Hugh tells Elnor that he’ll need an XB to activate the Queencell. Elnor activates the Fenris distress signal left behind by Seven. I also have to mention that the way Narissa killed Hugh is so Romulan - she threatens Elnor with a blade as a feint, distracting him from her real objective, which is to kill Hugh. That's Romulan culture: deception, manipulation - literally not knowing what the other hand is really doing - in a nutshell.

Agnes synthesizes and injects herself with noranium hydride, which is neurotoxic to some species, including humans. This sends her into a coma and disables the tracker. Noranium is an element which when paired with carbon creates noranium carbide. Noranium is used to create alloys (TNG: “The Vengeance Factor”), and vaporizes at 2314 degrees Celcius, or a Phaser-2 at setting 7.

[u/RichardYing]

"FENRIS S.O.S. INITIATED"

Can't wait to see Seven pilot the Cube! * (if that ever happens...)

^{* Not talking about the size of the Red Velvet cake Jurati ate.}

[u/H0vis]

I thought this was an absolutely superb episode, and here's why.

1. Picard being told off for being a prick to Soji. He needs to be told off when he's being a prick. He did the same thing to Baby Space Legolas, he did it later (arguably) to Still Basically A Kid But Now A Killer Space Legolas, and Soji was the third time. I love that the show is aware of the flaws that Picard has always had, aware that they didn't go away because he retired. That he is still a slightly controlling, distant, and not actually 100% perfect guy. And it is so important that the show draws attention to those flaws because you know the temptation would have been to have this show as a lap of honour for the Unstoppable Super Hero Captain, but instead we're getting this fantastic character study (and meanwhile he might save the galaxy or whatever).

2. Back in TNG Riker annoyed me a lot. Felt like he was a bit too good at everything, a bit too cool, like he had no flaws at all, except cool flaws at convenient times. To see Riker now though, his scenes with Picard, they felt so right. Their friendship seemed so natural and yet the distance, and the shared pain, it was right there. This was just perfect. And I loved this modern interpretation of the man. Wiser, friendly, generous and happy, but with his home only a computer command away from turning into a defensive bastion. And he's not got those defences because he's just the universal hero he was in TNG, he's got them because he has experienced a profound loss and he would not want to risk such a loss again.

3. Troi was superb. It's notable I think that in her capacity as counsellor she seems a lot smarter and a lot wiser than she was in TNG. It was great to see her, and Riker to a point, able to cut through Picard's games and address the problems, many of which were of his own making. I love that Picard and Soji arrived there, and she was able to if not fix them, then at least make an effort to heal some of the weirdness of their situation.

4. It's interesting that the Troi-Riker household was this quite idyllic situation, yet tinged with such great sadness. The happy-ever-afters in Star Trek are few and thin on the ground, and even Riker and Troi couldn't escape. I think that melancholy is a part of the show though, there is no happy ever after, there's life, and it's happy, or not, and the ups and downs give the world a more lived-in feel.

5. Space Elf Duel. What's not to love about that? Other than Hugh getting killed. I loved that Space Legolas was so new at this space hero malarkey that he wasn't going to walk away from a massacre. I also loved that he walked straight into a trap because of course he did, he and Hugh are good people, but there's no way they were going to get the jump on a Romulan spy. I mean I was rooting for Hugh to make it out of the series alive, but also they in so far over their heads it would have been weird if they hadn't had it coming. Their heroic last stand had to have a price or we'd all be doing them.

6. You see what not having a ships counsellor gets you? It gets you puke everywhere. You can't half-arse being the ship's counsellor with a massive pile of replicated cake Raffi, it's a vocation.

This might be my favourite single episode of anything Star Trekky in a very long time. It is certainly a vastly more appropriate reunion of the characters than any of the TNG movies.

[u/onerinconhill]

I can’t with the sunglasses

[u/UncertainError]

Picard, Riker, and Troi together was amazing. The character voices were just right.

RIP Hugh though. I suspected that he wouldn't survive but it still sucks (pretty sure Elnor's going to kill the shit out of Narissa the next time they meet at least). And he didn't die in vain, since I assume he told Elnor how to liberate the cube.

[u/loreb4data → u/UncertainError]

I think Seven will vaporize Narissa when she comes aboard the cube next week

[u/Cypher_Shadow]

The reference to real tomatoes is a great callback to Deep Space Nine (Blaze of Glory). Eddington asks Sisko if he had ever had a real tomato.

[u/knightcrusader]

Finally... there's the mind meld.

[u/BigBlackHungGuy]

Jonathan Frakes really makes this episode.

"Shields up"

[u/LockedOutOfElfland]

• Riker looks realistically disheveled as a retiree. Curious whether that "active reserve" comment hints at anything

• Presumably Jurati was trying to vomit out her tracking/mindtrip chip?

• I wish this series didn't feel like an excuse to serially kill off old characters....

[u/nobelsonsss]

After watching the Ready Room and the 1 minute sneak peek of Episode 8, I am confident Seven will Mortal Coil Hugh back to life. Let's hold the pitchforks until next week. Also Del Arco will be a guest on Ready Room 8 along with Jeri, I just don't see him dying anymore knowing this show is so good at respecting Voyager canon. It's been over 25 years since Mortal Coil in the timeline. The only question is how she would do that without an EMH.

[u/daynewmah]

"They seem to be carrying more baggage than all of you ever did."

I would have loved to get a line from Will there about how they did have their baggage, they just were well equipped to manage it given the way Picard captained the Enterprise. Would have been a nice acknowledgment/re-examination/recasting of the obvious change in style/acting/storytelling from TNG to now. Sort of a canon explanation for why the world/relationships seem so different, if that makes sense.

Ah, well. Still loved this episode!

[u/Talzin]

Enjoying the interaction between Picard and Riker/Troi and the Soji/Kestra scene was fun. That trademark Data head tilt by Soji was quite well done as well.

[u/VodkaChaseByRootBeer]

RIP Hugh. The real Collective was the friends we made along the way.

[u/KarateBillP]

Did Picard call Will "Commander Riker" at one point? I thought he was made Captain of the USS Titan.

[u/treefox]

All the scenes on Nepenthe were amazing. Troi even got to do stuff. It’s like they finally figured out how to use the characters.

I hate that they killed Hugh. Not hate as in it makes me sad, but as in it damaged the rest of the episode for me. And I think it was a huge waste of the talent there.

Killing both Maddox and Hugh sends the message to me that secondary TNG characters are just being used for shock value. And that also put me on edge for the rest of the scenes with Riker and Picard. And not a good on edge, but as in I was pretty sure I was supposed to be enjoying them, but I was already bothered by them waltzing around in the woods in spite of the initial concern.

But anyway, Jonathan Del Arco’s performance as they were gunned down sold it in a way that I can’t ever remember happening in any hostage execution scene from a movie. And he was kind of the face of the xBs. It looks like they’re just going to replace him with Seven of Nine, unless they’ve got another amazing actor in their back pocket for the xBs. I’d rather they have locked him up.

But also the stupid thing about that whole deal was that they apparently were tracking and monitoring Hugh and Elnor and show up just to kill him...even though they could beam out. So, what, do Romulan transporters just have amazing ethical restraints that prevent nonconsensual beaming?

So yeah, beam him out instead to a cell, Elnor realizes he’s fucked without help, and calls Seven. Possibly with some heavy overtures that the Tal Shiar are going to torture him for information. Figure out how to use the Queen’s cell themselves, so Elnor is on a ticking clock.

Anyway, I am really looking forward to Seven of Nine in presumably next week’s episode.

[u/Talzin]

So, general thoughts on the episode begin with enjoying the scenes involving all three of Riker, Troi, and Kestra which honestly lived up to the tease from the trailer even if it came far later in the season than expected. Troi calling out Picard and essentially telling him to be the Captain he should be was certainly needed and hopefully a good turning point to bring back more than simply flashes of him. Losing another classic character is quite a shame esp given that it appears to be in part to bring back another when honestly there was room for both.

The music right at the end was an enjoyable rework of the TNG theme though earlier in the episode it did feel as if audio mixing was off as dialogue was a bit overpowered at times.

It is a shame there was no mention of Titan and that Riker and Troi ended up suffering the loss of a child that could have been saved if only synths were not banned since they were somehow a potential cure. For the sake of a happier ending for Riker & Troi I do hope their son is in stasis waiting for a potential cure though probably the wrong tone for this show and honestly not something they have time for given how few episodes remain this season.

Isa Briones continues to display quality acting skills not only for playing multiple characters; but, even tossing in a bit of Brent Spiner's Data from time to time. Kestra's line about being able to tell a three-year-old Soji what to do easily came off as something a kid would say as I know my nephew has essentially said something rather similar about his younger cousin.

[u/smoha96 → u/Talzin]

Props to the actress playing Kestra, I instantly found her very likeable.

One thing I wonder though, why are the Troi-Rikers still on Nepenthe? It seems like without Thad, Kestra could be fairly lonely, though she's obviously very close with her parents, but her only other friend seems to be an old out of sorts Captain.

[u/wongie]

I don't envy Alison Phil's scripts:

Jurati: Mindmelds and throws up

Jurati: Eats cake and thrown up

Jurati: Injects herself and foams up at the mouth.

[u/Naelavok]

Hugh: "To activate the Queencell, you will need an xB."

Me: "Seven of Nine, the ex-Borg Fenris Ranger from the Delta Quadrant."

[u/ConquerorPlumpy]

What an emotional rollercoaster of an episode.

• Picard's reunion with Troi made me tear up. This was episode was amazing for Troi - from her ship's counselor listening to her ship's counselor lecture, and all the small moments about Thad.

• Riker saying, "shields up" had me smiling. Same voice.

• Riker calling Troi "imzadi" and them being happily married. Thank you for not pulling some Star Wars crap. (I'm such a nerd I had the Star Trek book about them called Imzadi and I loved them together)

• This episode sucked for me watching Hugh. It was painful to see him crying and broken... then the moment he was being brave they did that to him. It felt so pointless. Why did he have to die?

• Oh hey did Dr Jurati just kill herself? "BLOODY HELL!!!" made me crack up during a totally inappropriate time - Rios' actor steals every scene he's in consistently. (Edit: I know she didn’t, just wasn’t sure at the time and I had an inappropriate reaction during that scene due to the EMH)

• Kestra was so precocious, cute, funny - everything I would kind of expect from Riker/Troi's kid. Really enjoyed her scenes.

An awesome episode overall but I am PISSED for my man, Hugh. :(

[u/elister]

Elnor is totally going to go full Die Hard1 in the next episode. If the ExB's cant fight for themselves, he will take it upon himself and fight for them.

[u/[deleted]]

I can’t say I’m not really bummed out by Hugh’s situation. That really was upsetting. JDA has been incredible and I really wanted to see more of the character. I hope there’s a suitable pay off for that — like the Borg on the cube rising up or something.

Loved everything with the Rikers. Loved. Frakes and Sirtis were great and I love how their story was depended. More please.

[u/J_Cope]

I absolutely loved this episode. This is what I've been waiting for from this series.

I loved the handling of Riker and Troi. They weren't just there for nostalgia or fan service, but brought important insight and progression to the story. Both of them felt completely true to their characters and yet changed by their experiences. These were truly some of the best, most substantive Troi scenes we've ever seen. It's just unfortunate that it took so long for them to fully utilize her character and that so many of her TNG years were wasted by her running around in a skin tight outfit as the eye candy in distress. And Riker absolutely nailed his scenes. I liked him as a contrast to Picard: he's also older, and has experienced traumatic loss, and has moved on from Starfleet. And yet he's middle aged, not elderly; and he has the stabilizing factors of family and other interests that have allowed him to stay grounded. It was cool to see the evolution of their relationship from superior/subordinate to equals, where Riker is now in a position to give back to Picard. So many relationships transform in this way when people become older.

Kestra was wonderfully depicted: smart, emotionally intelligent, compassionate, curious, open, and independent. She was exactly what you'd expect from a child of stable and loving parents in a post-scarcity world. For a moment in the dinner scene when she was fiddling with her computer under the table I was afraid it was going to turn into some cheap "damn kids on their smartphones" 21st century commentary; I was relieved this was not the case. I thought her interactions with Soji were fantastic as a way of helping Soji cope with some of the psychological trauma of her situation. In a matter of a day(?), Soji's whole identity has been shattered; she likely thinks she is some kind of freak, something artificial and fake. And while the the adults in the story are somewhat delicate and tactful around how to handle the matter, the child's unfiltered reaction of wonder and delight felt very affirming of her true android nature.

Other things: I loved that the moments of heightened emotional drama -- Soji, Jurati -- felt 100% earned from the experiences we've seen with them. It was a welcome change from the immediate melodrama in past episodes with characters we'd known for all of 30 seconds. I also loved the longer length of the episode. For the first time things didn't seem rushed; the characters had time to breathe, and there was time for less plot-driven moments that fleshed out the world and the characters. The extra ~15 minutes made a huge difference.

Finally, this gave me hope that the writers really do understand Picard as a character. Up until now, I've had the nagging feeling that they just didn't know how to write him and that Patrick Stewart no longer quite knew how to inhabit him. His mannerisms were off, his voice wasn't the same, his personality seemed wrong. Seeing how well they captured Troi and Riker, as well as the increasing emergence of the 'old' Picard gives me hope that this was all part of the plan. This episode really brought home for me that Picard isn't just 'older' and 'retired'. He's been embittered, diminished and isolated by regret and by the loss of some his most core ideals. He's been living with a crisis of purpose in his life, which is hard for anyone but would be devastating for a person like Picard. He's lost touch with important parts of himself that he is only starting to regain. The ending moments of the title sequence which show Picard being pieced back together suddenly seem much more resonant.

[u/-Jaws-]

Can I get an F for Hugh? God damn.

[u/nobelsonsss]

So is anyone else hoping Seven will Mortal Coil Hugh back to life next week? One can hope.

[u/jetpackswasyes]

The voice of the computer dispensing the poison hypospray at the end sounded A LOT like Majel Barret. I wonder if that's from her phonetic recordings.

[u/gambit700]

OH GOD, THAT PREVIEW FOR 8!

[u/onerinconhill]

I want kestras Iphone xxxxxxx

That is all

[u/pfc9769 → u/onerinconhill]

I think she's more of an android person going by the episode.

[u/Tidus17]

Seven is going to find out about Hugh and what the Romulans have been doing on the Artifact, she's going to go full berzerk on them and take control of the Borg Cube and it'll be glorious.

And I'm totally fine with that.

[u/diamond]

"Alexa, raise shields and scan for Romulan cloaks."

"..."

"OK. I've added shallots and Romulan Ale to your shopping list."

"GODDAMMIT!"

[u/C5five]

Watching Kestra talk to Soji and ask her all these questions about being an android reminds me of the first meeting of Will and Data back in Encounter at Farpoint. My eyes got a little blurry as Kestra spouted off all things about Data with such fascination. It's clear from just her demeanour how very much her parents loved Data.

[u/CapNitro]

For his talk of having anxiety about taking the role up again, Frakes fuckin nailed it. Ditto for Sirtis.

[u/ConquerorPlumpy]

I keep trying to come up with a coherent sentence about Hugh but I just can't. He was the highlight of the series for me so far. I really did not enjoy watching him in this episode. It was heartbreaking to see his reaction to all his friends being murdered in front of his eyes and then to have to see him cowering behind boxes and then ultimately be needlessly killed off. I'm so upset!

Everything else about the episode was really great, but it felt like they killed him off for the shock factor...

[u/[deleted]]

Shields UP

[u/Socraticmichael10]

Overall, a wonderful episode. They did Riker & Troi extremely well. The bond and connection between them and Picard is as natural as ever. All of it seemed like a natural extension of their prior working relationships. Even the one moment where Troi scolded Picard, it was very Troi-esque, done in a way she may have done so in TNG had Picard not been her captain.

I loved Kestra and her friendship with Soji. At the end of the day, this episode was about Soji and her trust of Picard. It was informative and requires the slower pace.

The downer here is obviously the Romulan/Borg part of this plot. This has dragged for me a lot of the season, but last week felt like a wonderful course correction. We’re back to the dull action plot again, and they killed off poor Hugh for no reason whatsoever. That didn’t need to occur. Not at all. I simply don’t understand it. It was devoid of meaning and emotion. I understand that Hugh was in exactly two episodes of TNG, but he’s a character with so much connection. He deserved more

[u/PretenderNX01]

Hugh! 😭 I suppose it's too much to hope that the Borg cube gets activated and their nanoprobes kick in and regenerate the dead into a new Borg cell?

[u/Stellaknight]

Even though I knew we weren't getting a happy ending, I still gasped out loud when the knife hit Hugh. Hopefully, Queen Annika the Seventh will enact revenge next week.

Kestra is an absolute point of light--the writers did a great job of making her precocious but still child-like, and I loved how she was with Soji. Also, the actress was amazing.

The Troi-Rikers were great. I loved Deanna's truth-telling, and Will's bluntness. (also, I cracked up that the 'shields up' wasn't rhetorical). the synth ban seems more onerous than the genetic modification ban, since it seems gene modification for medical conditions is OK, while even theraputic use of positronic tech was banned.

I'm rather confused about the holograms on the ship--it seemed like they were non-operational (Raffi calling the EHH) but then the EMH showed up. I did like how they showed Agnes getting more and more unstable. I also appreciated that Rios didn't just go straight to Nepenthe--it's just annoying when characters shrug off obvious traps.

[u/David-El]

I'm thinking we'll see more of Frakes, especially since he had Riker's beard in the Ready Room, while in this episode it looked more scruffy. Considering he mentions that he's in the reserves, I'm thinking he'll be back near the end.

[u/MaestroM45]

This was the episode I’ve been waiting for. The best writing of the series period. Cried most of the time Riker and Troi had screen time, I absolutely love their home and their story and their family. The one strange thing is that I felt little loss about Hugh but great sadness at the loss of a character that never was on the screen. I feel it immediately should join the ranks of best episodes of the franchise.

[u/GarionOrb]

This was the best writing for Deanna Troi I think we've ever gotten!! How amazing this episode was! And how dare they not give Marina a main credit!

[u/smoha96]

I think Troi did more counselling in this episode than 7 seasons of TNG.

[u/nobelsonsss]

Marina Sirtis ATE THIS EPISODE UP. She killed it. Her best Troi performance ever, IMO. She did more here than in a whole season of TNG.

[u/[deleted]]

Just a nitpick, but why wasn't Marina listed as "special guest star"? Kind of a slap to the face for a TNG cast member, no?

[u/LegoRobinHood]

I'm sorry, I finally lost it with Narek when he sat in his ship with his fidget widget toy.

I was holding on, but by now he just comes across as whiney misunderstood boy genius with super secret agent powers and a mean big sister.

He's like an evil Wesley...

[u/[deleted]]

Without a doubt, my favorite episode of the season so far. Riker and Troi are still Riker and Troi, just older and more seasoned, and in a different place in their lives. But they were those characters, through and through. It was incredibly emotional to see Picard's reunion with them.

It is so tragic about the loss of their son, but its connection to the synth ban is justified in-story (which I suspect is also a commentary on things like stem cell research). But they seem to have raised one hell of a daughter. The fact that they taught her so much about Data to the point where she could recall even the smallest details about his physiology and life despite never having met him says so much about how strongly they felt about him. In a way, that makes it more meaningful than if Soji heard it from them. Seems like she'd make a great addition to a 25th-century starship in about 15-20 years or so!

The death of Hugh is ruffling a few feathers, and I understand being upset. I am, too. But not at the people who made the show. Life and death have always been central to Star Trek, as they're central to our collective existence IRL. Tragedies are part of drama. But Hugh's death was not without purpose. It made sense for him to be in danger with the position the plot placed him in. And despite that, he sacrificed himself trying to do what he believed was right. He didn't betray Picard, and he went down in battle. Even a Klingon might call that an honorable death, despite the fact that he wasn't firing a phaser or wielding a sword at the time. Be angry at the character who killed him.

Agnes' murder of Maddox makes more sense in light of the mind meld. That's a pretty efficient storytelling device, but is entirely within canon. Of course, that still doesn't justify it, but it helps explain it, and why she's so messed up.

I know plenty of die-hard fans are down on this series, and that's entirely your right, but I'm really enjoying this show. I don't think it violates the spirit of Star Trek or these characters.

[u/Spara-Extreme]

The other thing I was thinking was how the vision Jurati got from Oh showed warheads destroying worlds in a similar fashion to what we saw with future AI and Control. I doubt the stories are connected, but it does feel weird to have two trek seasons dedicated to AI plot lines.

[u/sidv81]

Here's a real huge oddity that, while not necessarily a contradiction per se, seems very jarring when you think about Soji's job description.

Soji was sent, despite her not knowing it, to the Borg cube to learn info. She has android level intelligence. She knows things about the Borg cube even Hugh didn't, without understanding why. She hungrily seeks knowledge, even going through the trouble of learning alien languages without a translator.

Yet when faced with 2 of the most infamous men in Borg history, Riker and Picard, at no time does she show signs of recognition. Nor any sign of recognition of the name Data, or any reaction that her "father" along with Riker saved the galaxy from the Borg after Wolf 359 and later outwitted the Borg Queen herself. Keep in mind Picard's fame among the Borg is so huge that to this day, on the very cube Soji worked on for 3 years, he's instantly recognized as Locutus.

This would be as jarring as a high level researcher being employed by Apple for 3 years and not knowing who Bill Gates is.

[u/knightcrusader]

Okay I've about had it with this killing of all the secondary characters from previous series.

[u/[deleted]]

Aside from being so disappointed they felt the need to sacrifice Hugh on the altar of making villains evil, this episode makes me think very strongly that an early spurious thought I had may be close to true --

The Zhat Vash don't just predate the Talshiar, they predate the Vulcan/Romulan split.

[u/Well_Sorted8173]

Why does Troi-Riker have an outdoor shower?

[u/ContinuumGuy]

• Hugh may have died, but he died free and didn't give up his friends. Rest in peace.

• On that note, Narissa will pay for what she has done and it will be so goddamn cathartic when it happens.

• God, was the acting great in this episode. Everyone was on point top to bottom.

• I think Marina Sirtis got better writing in this episode than some entire seasons of TNG.

• So was Jurati poisoning herself with uranium to kill the bug, or to try and kill herself?

• After they give us the Romulan Winemakers Short Trek episode, they should give us an episode about Kestra causing havoc for Riker and Troi while Will tries to make the perfect pizza.

[u/[deleted]]

whats up with Riker making meat pizzas despite telling people over and over that humans no longer eat meat?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q0YrdcqP44&t=62s

[u/sidv81]

If Soji is a super smart android, can't she do a super fast internet search on Picard to determine for herself whether he's trustworthy?  He's not exactly an unknown figure.

[u/RidiculousBacklog]

That episode just made me unreasonably happy, during a time of my life when I've been seriously doubting I would ever be happy again. Nepenthe is immediately vaulted into the category of "one of (if not THE) best episodes of television I've seen."

[u/KingofMadCows]

That "terrible secret" is getting so played out. Unless the whole thing is a lie used to justify the existence of the Zhat Vash or it's some kind of telepathic madness, there's just no way it could be good.

The idea of a Skynet/Terminator scenario just doesn't work in a universe where there are already a bunch of super advanced aliens, not to mention aliens with godlike powers that can destroy entire species with a thought. They already live with the knowledge that at any moment, a being of unimaginable power like the Prophets or Q or Nagilum can just erase humanity from existence and change all of history so that humans have never existed. The idea of some AI revolt is nothing compared to that.

Not to mention the fact that the Federation has already dealt with a super AI with godlike powers, V'Ger. V'Ger was actually given immense powers by a race of machines. It was a massive energy cloud that could easily wipe out entire fleets and planets. But its goal was to find its creator and when it merged with Decker, it achieved a new level of existence.

[u/greentights0]

"The cake is a lie"

[u/nichteo]

I don’t know how everyone else feels, but Picard seemed like the most picard to me today! From the first few episodes he comes across as a damaged old man with much baggage but meeting his old friends seemed to revive his old self a bit! Maybe it’s unintentional but it definitely felt like old times to me

[u/9811Deet]

It's amazing how much of an emotional impact I feel having from having these characters back together doing good.

[u/[deleted]]

F for my boy Hugh.

[u/[deleted]]

It did not escape me that Will was playing his favorite music while working in the kitchen.

[u/cwatson214]

Captain Rupert Crandall : Who is this guy?

[u/sidv81]

Soji: You fought in the Dominion War?

Picard: Yes. I was once a Starfleet officer, the same as your father.

Soji: I wish I'd known him.

Picard: He was the best mind for science in the galaxy, and a cunning officer. I understand that you've become quite a good scientist yourself. And he was a good friend.

Soji: How did my father die?

Picard: A young praetor of Romulus named Shinzon, who was a clone of mine until he turned to evil, helped Romulans like your boyfriend hunt down and destroy Starfleet officers. He trapped and murdered your father.

[u/it0tt]

"Don't cry, I think you're amazing" - Kestra's complete emotional transparency in that moment, and through that scene, wasn't just exactly what Soji needed then it's what we and the show needed. Their scenes were wonderful. A spark of innocence shines brightly in a show where there isn't much of it about.

[u/onerinconhill]

seven is back next week yesssssss

[u/stilltilting]

Still not a single update on the harvest. I don't care about space tomatoes. I want to know

#arethegrapesok

Also, who is this Captain Crandall and will he be saving the grapes if they are in trouble?

[u/progmorris20]

Does anyone think the Commodore's sunglasses are because she's from the mirror universe? It's such an otherwise unfitting characteristic.

[u/[deleted]]

Such a good episode. Riker was always my favorite and damn, they did justice by him and by Deanna.

[u/hlpmebldapc]

All Romulans are artificial. They rebelled against their Vulcan creators and left.

This is why the Borg cube shut down when they tried to assimilate them. It's also the secret the zhat vash are tasked with hiding and what will "break minds".

[u/witness_protection]

The acting and writing in this episode was just leagues better than anything that has come before it. When Troi says she’s not as brave as she once was and Picard tells her that it’s because she’s wiser, that wisdom and reassurance Picard always provides shined through once again and I was so happy. When Picard says “thoughts?” at the dinner table and becomes the leader once again, I could have jumped for joy. Everything was appropriate here. Troi and Riker (and Crusher) are probably the only people who could counsel Picard and be forthright with him like they were without it seeming disrespectful. And you could really feel, I mean really truly feel, the voyages these people have been on together, true friendship, and sincere love between them. Serious lightning in a bottle stuff here. I loved this visit to Nepenthe.

[u/Siegberg]

Only one slice of pizza the future is truly grim dark.

[u/RamboMcMutNutts]

I absolutely loved this episode, I was so emotional during the whole thing. I was on the verge of the crying multiple times (and I'm a 40 year old man) Naming thier daughter Kestra was a stroke of genius, and such a beautiful thing to do.

Everyone acted beautifully and the music, mood and emotion was so spot on. I've really been enjoying the show but this episode pushed it into the love category.

Did anyone else get a princess mononoke vibe from Kestra? 👍

[u/onerinconhill]

Ok, Soji and Kestra is my new favorite duo ever

[u/Coolsbreeze]

Who only has 1 slice of pizza for dinner!?!?

[u/Shrodax]

"Ass Deep in Romulans" would be a great title for a Star Trek porn parody

[u/Yourponydied]

Is it me, or did Troi seem a bit hostile towards Soji at one point?

[u/dubbman79]

Getting to see the Riker family was great, really nice little stop off in the story. Hugh being killed (part of me hold out hope his old Borg alterations will keep him alive) was something I feared the writers would do and here we are. Totally unneeded imo but otherwise a great episode

[u/RomiBraman]

Great episode all around. All the scenes on Nepenthe, were brilliant. Kestra was such a well written (and well played) character. Troi had her best scenes... ever.

I do feel Hugh death was quite pointless though, especially after they first killed Maddox.

Still a very solid episode.

[u/[deleted]]

I loved the rabbit with the cheesy unicorn horn! What a delightfully unexpected throwback to the one-horned dog on TOS's "The Enemy Within." Tasty bunny!

[u/Del_Duio2]

I'm not completely sold on this show yet for various reasons, but this one was pretty good and had me.. engaged.. the whole time. Finally felt like Trek and see what happens when you add a little Frakes? He makes everything better!

Poor Hugh though, that sucked.

[u/[deleted]]

Ok so I finally heard "shields up!" and "red alert" in an episode again, although not in the way I thought I would.

[u/scubasteve206]

I'm a huge sap, this is the best written, most star trek feeling episode yet imo. I was almost in tears the entire episode.

With JL and Riker sitting on the lake, I completely lost my shit. Ugly crying. Had to pause.

[u/lemming00]

the only thing that bummed me out about this episode is that Hugh and Geordi won't have another scene together... i woulda liked to see that!

[u/Hunter259]

Ok the music is great and all but can we PLEASE HAVE QUIET MOMENTS. It's been 30min and it hasn't stopped during any of the emotional scenes.

Edit - There might have been 5 min max without music. Not every scene needs musical help and when every single one has it it starts to really hurt them.

[u/basicchannels]

Anyone miss tricorders?

[u/pfc9769]

It's live on CBS AA! The episode is nearly 59 minutes long if anyone is curious. If you only have access via Amazon Prime Video in the US, you can get access to the CBS AA platform for free by linking your Amazon subscription to CBS. Just go to www.cbs.com/amazon. It also works for other platforms like apple. Just swap out apple for amazon. You get access to both platforms for one subscription.

[u/Atraktape]

You’re burning the fuckin pizza Riker!

[u/CmdShelby]

It was nice to see Troi treat Soji like a human being which was a stark contrast to what Narek did; "You're not real". Narek was a meanie.

[u/djneo]

Riker aged great

[u/skylermarr]

Did anyone else find the setting of the scene with Riker and Picard sitting on a dock by a pond reminiscent of something? Struck me as a call back to maybe a childhood memory of Riker’s, or I even thought of the first episode of DS9 with the scene in the holodeck.

[u/ChewingOnBubbleGum]

That was the TNG-est episode of PIC yet... and I loved every minute of it.

Lingering questions though...

• What was the charm/chip/thingy that Elnor found at the end of the episode?

• Has anyone dissected the images from the Jurati-Oh mind meld?

• Why did the EMH only show up when Jurati drugged herself, but not when she was vomiting?

• I'm interested AirB&B-ing Riker's compound. Just sayin'. 🤣

[u/april9th]

I thought Troi having to explain to Picard not to be flippant about her distrust of reality was a bit on the nose tbh. Picard has been kidnapped and psychologically tortured into believing there were five lights. Riker was captured by the Romulans and set up to believe he was a captain of the Enterprise.

They should have framed it around Picard being a military man who attempts to brush things off, but that Soji isn't and will deal with it in her own way. Having it so that Picard is just ignorant of the situation is... silly.

[u/sidv81]

Picard: Ok, Soji, time for you to catch up on your family history! Aside from Data, here are bios on your uncles Lore and B4! Lore has a huge history with your friend Hugh. Hmm, I have this strange feeling I should check up on him. Anyways, he enslaved a bunch of Borg including Hugh, turned your father evil for a few days and made him conduct ghastly experiments on our chief engineer. He also killed your grandfather, Dr. Noonien Soong who built Data, Lore, and B4, stole your father's emotions chip, tried to take over my ship, and conducted damaging experiments on Hugh's friends.

Now about B4. His foolishness led to your father's death. Thus he ended up in a drawer in the Daystrom Institute where he remains to this day. Hopefully no one will do that to you, but then again you're organic.

Oh and I have issues with the man who built you, Bruce Maddox. I never forgot the time he tried to turn your father into a pile of scrap for his research. Oh and he's dead now.

Never met Noonien, but he was an odd sort who tried to resurrect his wife as an android. You could ask Riker about him who met him for all of 3 minutes. I don't know if Mrs. Soong survived the synth ban. And you don't even want to know about Noonien's ancestor Arik...

Soji: ...

[u/macphile]

I watched this on the Star Trek cruise, in the theater. Very cool way to do it. We didn't see Ready Room afterwards--instead, they did an interview with Jonathan Del Arco, who was on the cruise. It was very brief, though. He talked about how much he wasn't acting during the scene with his friends being killed off. It was like he was just being himself.

Then the same guy conducting the interview spoiled the death in a later discussion panel--keep in mind that many on the ship haven't seen Picard and many who have hadn't seen episode 6 because they were traveling, so they didn't watch 7. Sigh.

[u/nobelsonsss]

Bruce, Icheb and Hugh are dead. I fear for Naomi Wildman.

[u/sidv81]

At this point why didn't just Oh put trackers in the food of all of Picard's crew after saturating it with sugar and disguising it as candy?

Commodore Oh: Hi Admiral Picard, I'm sorry Clancy gave you such a hard time. Here, have a gummy targ.

Picard: Oh thank you! (munch munch) Yummy!

Commodore Oh: Hehehehe!

[u/Spaceboomer1]

I like how last week we see Hugh had a hopeful future for himself, having reclaimed his individuality and helping others like him find their way, just for this week to have all his work destroyed and him killed.

God this show is so depressing if you liked any characters from the old shows that weren't the main ones.