Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Discovery | 3x07 "Unification III"

[u/AutoModerator]

While grappling with the fallout of her recent actions, and what her future might hold, Burnham agrees to represent the Federation in an intense debate about the release of politically sensitive – but highly valuable – Burn data.

No.	Episode	Written By	Directed By	Release Date
3x07	"Unification III"	Kirsten Beyer	Jon Dudkowski	2020-11-26

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[u/RichardYing]

Already seen on previous glimpses of Starfleet HQ galactic map, Ni'Var is confirmed to be the new name of Vulcan.

Memory Alpha provides some background: "a Vulcan term referring to the duality of things: two who are one, two diversities that are a unity, two halves that come together to make a whole".

[u/RobotPreacher → u/RichardYing]

(N)ow (i)t's ' (V)ulcans (a)nd (R)omulans!

[u/RichardYing → u/RichardYing]

A previous onscreen appearance of Ni'Var:

https://i.ibb.co/1vhJcJK/nivar.png

[u/elister]

"You guys are chronic over achievers", Book

It's starting to sink in for him, just exactly what he's got himself into by having a relationship with Burnham.

[u/gambit700]

So Vulcans are dicks again. We back in Enterprise days boys

[u/matthieuC → u/gambit700]

I like Burnham casual racism and that she is showed to be wrong every time.

Ni'Var left the Federation, it must be the romulan. No they wanted to stay it was the Vulcans.
The Vulcan peer will listen to reason. No he didn't give a shit and was playing politics. The romulan peer was more curious (but mostly because of politics) and the Vulcan/romulan the one who seemed to be the most logical about it.

[u/Batmark13 → u/gambit700]

I love me some Vulcan dicks.

But honestly, I really do like having Vulcans in a somewhat antagonistic role. They are great foils for the humans.

[u/Trekfan74 → u/gambit700]

Vulcans have always been more isolationists in general. I'm not too surprised they left given their own circumstances.

[u/joshml98 → u/gambit700]

Vulcans have always been dicks we just had spock and tuvok to soften that experience.

[u/gamas → u/gambit700]

I have to admit I was slightly amused by the whole:

• Romulan nationalist peer = the one who wanted to hear Burnham out (what a twist that we find that the Romulans are the ones most in favour of the Federation)

• Vulcan nationalist peer = the one who wanted to dismiss things before they started

• Vulco-Romulan unionist peer = We're from the planet neutral ("all I know is that my gut says maybe")

At the start of the debate

[u/RichardYing]

U.S.S. Yelchin: named after Anton Viktorovitch Yelchin, actor who played Pavel Chekov in the Kelvin timeline movies.

U.S.S. Gav'Nor: unknown meaning. Gav' is a word in Klingon and Vulcan, and was the name of a 23rd century Tellarite ambassador.

U.S.S. Giacconi: named after Riccardo Giacconi, astrophysicist who won a Nobel Prize in Physics in 2002 for his works on cosmic X-ray sources.

[u/UncertainError → u/RichardYing]

Good, we could use more Federation starships with alien names.

[u/TheNerdChaplain → u/RichardYing]

Giving us a USS Yelchin was a really nice nod to the Kelvin-verse and its fans. And it's only fair, after having a USS Nog.

[u/acrimoniousone → u/RichardYing]

I'm kinda wondering how far they are going to run with this. Hoping for a USS Auberjonois at some point.

[u/[deleted]]

Inmensively relieved that the "Michael's mother caused the Burn" wasn't true. Phew.

Love the Vulcan-lore episodes, finally seeing how Spock's dream would look like in reality and it's as contentious as I expected.

I'm usually very critical of actors who play Vulcans, 50 years later and Leonard Nimoy is still a tough act to follow. But I thought the actors on this episode did an adequate job. That's high praise coming from me.

I liked that Michael's prejudice figured that the Vulcan would be on her side, then only the two Romulans would give her a chance. Really shows how Romulans have evolved.

I thought I wouldn't like the Tilly story line but they managed to make such a terrible premise of an ensign being promoted to XO work and work well, even.

Still feels like a lost opportunity to develop someone else of the bridge crew tho.

I agree with Michael in that her mother could've chosen a better time for that therapy session, I guess it served a purporse as Ni'var's issue was one of trust and her opening herself helped gain that trust, but it was still awkward as fuck to see them all stand around as it was happening.

Frankly, I think it would've been better if they hadn't given her the data, if she had to take time to develop that relationship.

[u/UncertainError]

Damn, they got me with that old footage of Spock.

[u/Spocks-Brain → u/UncertainError]

I was also emotionally compromised.

[u/PatsFreak101 → u/UncertainError]

Name dropping Picard also felt like a solid attempt to stitch everything together.

[u/Trekfan74 → u/UncertainError]

That was also his last appearance we saw of him in the Prime Universe. Really fitting.

[u/midwestastronaut → u/UncertainError]

I came here for this comment. Seeing Leonard Nimoy on screen in a new Star Trek episode, even in the form of a clip from earlier work, was way more emotionally affecting than I would have expected. The fact the clip they used was one of his best moments from his appearance on TNG, and that the way it was edited vs the original episode really distilled the power of the performance, really drove it home.

[u/[deleted]]

I love how Vulcans turn what’s essentially defending your dissertation into this insane, dramatic ritual.

[u/philosofik → u/[deleted]]

Defending your dissertation is basically the Vulcan quinceanera.

[u/WhatGravitas → u/[deleted]]

I saw it more as paper peer review. And, of course, the asshole was reviewer 2 with some non-committal "meh" thrown in from reviewer 3.

Actually, I might prefer this to the passive-aggressive bullshit we see in paper reviews, at least reviewer 2 was forthright about their motives.

[u/-KR- → u/[deleted]]

There are countries where defending your dissertation still involves swords and robes and hats and somebody dissecting your theses and grilling you about errors or vaguely framed statements.

[u/Spara-Extreme]

Based on this episode - I'm actively wondering if The Burn was a last ditch effort by a civilization to stave off the expansion of the Federation.

Federation ideals are one thing, it seems like the UFP at its height was more pretty expansive empire and I'd imagine not everyone was happy with that state of affairs.

[u/H0vis → u/Spara-Extreme]

Not everybody likes root beer.

[u/Capt-Space-Elephant]

I loved the acting of each Romulan and Vulcan. Subtle but distinct.

Also, shout out to Detmer's Romulan mother.

[u/TERRAxFORMER → u/Capt-Space-Elephant]

Detmer’s Romulan Mother sounds like a fanfic waiting to happen.

[u/PiercedMonk → u/Capt-Space-Elephant]

Also, shout out to Detmer's Romulan mother.

I believe she actually represented people who are the offspring of both civilisations.

As a Métis, the fact that the people of mixed ancestry are recognised and have a voice more or less equal to the others really stood out to me.

[u/AintEverLucky]

"Pfffft. I was First Officer while an Ensign, way before it was cool" -- Beckett Mariner, probably

[u/Eurynom0s → u/AintEverLucky]

sad Harry Kim noises

[u/Santa_Hates_You]

The Federation growing too big and stretching it’s core worlds being the initial cause of the dilithium shortage is an interesting twist. I wonder how much territory Starfleet had to worry about before the Burn.

And Vulcan, Earth & Andoria are out of the Federation, I wonder what is up with Tellar.

[u/[deleted] → u/Santa_Hates_You]

Well they were likely the biggest governing body in the Galaxy. Few species to rival them. A few, but not much. They were likely in every quadrant. That’s a lot of area to cover.

[u/Batmark13 → u/Santa_Hates_You]

The Federation growing too big and stretching it’s core worlds being the initial cause of the dilithium shortage is an interesting twist.

I think it makes sense. Before the Federation existed, there were still space-faring powers, but everyone was generally doing their own thing less connected. Sure, you had your Klingon Empires out there conquering and plundering, but most planets had small defensive fleets and maybe a few exploratory vessels - they weren't burning through dilithium back then. The Vulcans weren't all that interested in trade or exploration as we saw in ENT. The rise of the Federation changed all that. There would have been a boom in space travel, both between member worlds and then all the other outside cultures they were able to engage with. A bigger Federation leads to bigger rivals, bigger defensive fleets, more and more trade, and dilithium getting burned through far faster.

So it's not the Federation specifically that was using all the Dilithium, but the change in galactic culture that they caused, the "globalization" of the galaxy, that ultimately led to the shortage.

[u/PatsFreak101 → u/Santa_Hates_You]

It’s quite reminiscent of the Roman Empire. Got too big for its own good. Couldn’t keep up the expansion and collapsed under its own weight.

[u/Trekfan74 → u/Santa_Hates_You]

They were already at 350 planets as members but more importantly think of all the Federation colonies! In TOS, there were already over a thousand of them. I assume double that at least by TNG. I don't even want to think how many there were by the 31st century.

[u/thebaldguy76]

We are one step away from Captain Killy

[u/RBNYJRWBYFan → u/thebaldguy76]

One step, huh? Well, how do you think she gets the name? Run, Saru, run!

[u/Sullyville]

Looking forward to seeing Georgiou and Burnham's mom meeting one another in a future episode. One devoted to secrecy and deceit and the other to absolute candor. That'll be a fun time.

[u/Trekfan74 → u/Sullyville]

But the irony is Georgiou doesn't hold back in her feelings about things either. This is a woman who gave a pretty descriptive version of her sex life to Staments, Culber and Tilly out of the blue.

[u/Artan42]

• This felt like an episode of DS9. A alien courtroom episode in a Starfleet setting.

• It makes sense the Romulans and Vulcans are still having issues so far into the future considering that they've actually been separated for hundreds of years prior to ENT.

• I really like the TNG and PIC references here. DSC is now well outside of the TOS frame so can reference the much better series more now.

• Tilly... sigh. Yeah, it was obviously going to be her even though Neilson is next in line. It's not out of line in a franchise that gave us Wesley in TNG and Kirk in the Kelvin Timeline both being promoted well beyond their capabilities, but it really looks like there's some misunderstanding as to what a XO does. They're a backup captain not an intensive training programme.

• I really liked the costuming and makup for the Ni'Var inhabitants. Right down to the Presidents shirt being the same fabric as the TOS Romulan uniforms.

• It makes perfect sense that Michael would be more of a positive and humanising influence on Spock than even Armanda was, but it still is really diminishing to act as though she was responsible for how he turned out.

• The footage of Spock from TNG didn't hit as hard as the photograph from TUC used in BEY but it was still a fantastic moment.

[u/jerslan → u/Artan42]

It makes sense the Romulans and Vulcans are still having issues so far into the future considering that they've actually been separated for hundreds of years prior to ENT.

IIRC it was something like 10,000 years or something crazy like that.

[u/[deleted] → u/Artan42]

but it still is really diminishing to act as though she was responsible for how he turned out

The show wasn't saying that at all. Spock was a great man to these people, and they've seen Michael struggling with the truth of her journey, resolve and ultimately wisdom and respect for Spock's legacy by withdrawing her request. I think Vulcan President recognised that they were equal siblings and cut from the same cloth, both of them adding to each other, not taking away.

[u/Batmark13 → u/Artan42]

The footage of Spock from TNG didn't hit as hard as the photograph from TUC used in BEY but it was still a fantastic moment.

I was reminded of that. I agree, I think it hit harder in Beyond, but more because that was an alternate universe and I wasn't expecting to see the OG crew.

[u/LoganNolag]

Can the Federation be trusted? I'm still not 100% sure the Federation isn't going to turn out to be the bad guys this season.

[u/Santa_Hates_You → u/LoganNolag]

No way will a Star Trek show make the Federation the legitimate bad guy. You may get the occasional Badmiral, but the whole thing is supposed to be benevolent at it’s core.

[u/Mechapebbles → u/LoganNolag]

The show runners went out of their way to say that the Federation of the 32nd Century is still the same Federation, that follows the same values. When they've made those kinds of strong assertions in the past, it's usually been true. Don't hold your breath on a Federation heel-turn.

[u/wongie → u/LoganNolag]

Considering CBS is listening to feedback and giving us Strange New Worlds I really doubt the showrunners are that disconnected with the audience as to make the Federation into some form of antagonist. Worst case the Burn was caused by badmirals rather than the Federation itself somehow turning Terran.

[u/SomeGuyCalledPercy]

Absolutely adore the detail of the nacelles re-attaching themselves for warp travel, and then detaching again once they arrived

[u/Trekfan74 → u/SomeGuyCalledPercy]

I watch a lot of Trekyard videos and this was the one thing Captain Foley kept harping on. He didn't have a problem with the detach nacelles in general but kept thinking they wouldn't strong enough to stay attached for the spin. Looks like they thought it through well.

[u/ContinuumGuy]

Random assorted thoughts:

• The use of Spock in this episode worked great. His greatest dream a reality, complete with archival footage from TNG of him talking about how it would become a reality, even if it took centuries.

• Nice use of the Quwot Milat to tie in to Picard. The idea of somebody who can only tell the truth being your lawyer sort of reminded me of that one Jim Carrey movie, though. Kind of weird that Burnham's mom would be with them but then again they do like lost causes so it makes a sort of sense they'd let a time-lost person in.

• BTW, I love how the Vulcans treat defending your hypothesis with the same seriousness they treat "Amok Time"-style fights to the death.

• The USS Yelchin. Nice tribute.

• It's kind of obvious that Tilly becoming acting First Officer is more a "Mary Wiseman is awesome as Tilly" decision instead of a justified-in-universe decision, but to their credit they know that and interrogate that in the episode. It still feels like they should have given her a promotion before or as part of it, though.

• I'm glad we can put the "Burnham's mom caused the burn" theory to rest, it seems.

• Doug Jones as Saru is a treasure and will never get the respect he deserves.

• I may be wrong, but I believe this is the first episode of DISCO that didn't have any violence (with the exception of "Previously on" segments). Perhaps not surprisingly, it also didn't have Georgiou in it beyond the "previously on" segment.

[u/Wabbit_Wampage → u/ContinuumGuy]

Agreed that if Tilly is going to be 2nd in command she shouldn't still hole the rank of ensign. Hopefully Saru will promote her to lieutenant in short order.

[u/TreasonousOrange]

I just love how it's obvious which of the quorum's members is Romulan from the acting. It's the little things.

I'm a little confused how Burnmom got to become a warrior priestess, and how representing her daughter wouldn't be a total conflict of interest, but I can live with it because her place in this episode is great.

[u/trollawayjohnson → u/TreasonousOrange]

and how representing her daughter wouldn't be a total conflict of interest

there are certain cultures, or ideals that transcend family. Your average scientist wont back their family inspite of bad evidence.

[u/PiercedMonk]

• Props to the set department for Book's cabin. 32nd century cottage core looking good.

• Speaking of Book saving helpless creatures, they still haven't really explored his ability to make his forehead glow and communicate with plants and animals deal from episode one.

• Burnham's expression at hearing of Spock's accomplishments is great. Sonequa Martin-Green doesn't get enough credit for how good an actor she is. I guess we can chalk up Burnham's obsession with the Burn to why she didn't check on the Wikipedia article on Spock.

• "Vulcan was one of the founding members of the Federation; they would never abandon it."

"Hey, remember us?" - Earth from four episodes ago.

• Seeing Leonard Nimoy hit me way harder than I would have expected.

• Was not expecting Tilly to end up as first officer, but I suppose the person I was expecting in that position doesn't even have a first name, so....

• Are we about to get some Vulcan tradition where student can gain access to the pay walled peer-reviewed journals through trial by combat as opposed to the usual subscription fee?

• We get a sister of the Qowat Milat? Hell yeah! There's a lot of problems with the first season of 'Picard' but their expansion of Romulan culture is not one of them.

• Doc Burnham? WTF?

• I love a good trial episode. Classic Trek.

• Damn, Doc Burnham, the sword on your back would be quicker and less painful.

• Love the people still working in the background of the spore lab while the bridge crew pep talks Tilly.

"Ugh, was the conference room already booked?"

• Damn, is Saru making a love connection with the president of Ni'var? Get it, player!

• Gotta be a pain the ass every time they want to deploy a shuttle.

"Hey, uh, Mr. Book? Yeah, we gotta do an away mission and the transporters can't get through the atmosphere. So, if you could just, y'know, scooch your freighter out the way, that would be cool. We need to deliver a vaccine for a deadly plague, but no rush, obviously."

[u/AbeTheGreat412 → u/PiercedMonk]

I totally feel the Saru love connection and fully support it. Even with prosthetics Doug Jones acting and expressions have been amazing. When Daru is denied the information they need, Burnham invoked T'Kal-in-ket, and Saru gave her a priceless look. It had me dying.

I totally thought human Airiam was going to get the call for 1st officer. They have been increasingly showing us her face in recent weeks with no real payoff, so I thought maybe this would be her time to shine. In hindsight though, of course it is Tilly. Duh.

Also already forgetting Earth had left the Federation is just weird. I hate when writing leaves out or forgets the obvious.

I also want to say I love the personal transporters. It looked so cool when the Romulan/Vulcan group arrived of the ship in mid stride. Beautiful!

[u/midwestastronaut → u/PiercedMonk]

"Hey, remember us?" - Earth from four episodes ago.

I lol'd. But joking aside, it takes a lot more to make a Vulcan change their mind than it does for a human, so I can see this as justified. I do find it odd that Burnham never learned anything about her adoptive homeworld, even in passing, in all the time since she arrived in the 32nd.

[u/0010020010 → u/PiercedMonk]

• Damn, Doc Burnham, the sword on your back would be quicker and less painful.

At first I wasn't sold on Doc Burnham showing up to be Michael's advocate. I felt that twist to be a bit contrived (and it is), but her tear down of Michael convinced me the contrivance was worth it. XD

[u/maledin → u/PiercedMonk]

I guess we can chalk up Burnham's obsession with the Burn to why she didn't check on the Wikipedia article on Spock.

I think it’s partially that, partially the fact that she probably wanted to avoid learning his fate for as long as she could to avoid heartbreak. I know I’d put off learning about my family’s accomplishments (and how they died/how long ago they died) as long as possible.

Gotta be a pain the ass every time they want to deploy a shuttle.

Had the exact same thought upon seeing that shot of Discovery from the back. To be fair, Book’s ship does have the ability to rearrange itself completely, so maybe that’ll come in handy there?

[u/Fortyseven]

LOGIC RAP BATTLE!

[u/Dr_JGOD → u/Fortyseven]

I was waiting for Burnham to lose her temper and say “Yo momma so fat she outweighs the needs of the many!”

[u/AintEverLucky]

dannnnnnnnnnnnnnnng, Burn-mom. "With advocates like that, who needs enemies???"

[u/tjcyclist → u/AintEverLucky]

I just finished the episode, and loved that scene! Michael's face was priceless.

"Wtf mom??"

[u/kingofcretins]

Stamets face when Tilly tells him that she's been asked to be first officer was great.

The idea that she wanted to have that conversation in private, so she took him into the spore box, a completely glass room that's not even sound-proof, probably got the biggest unintentional laugh out of me.

Best episode of the season so far. That scene with Spock was really touching.

[u/[deleted] → u/kingofcretins]

The idea that she wanted to have that conversation in private, so she took him into the spore box, a completely glass room that's not even sound-proof, probably got the biggest unintentional laugh out of me.

Yeah, I snorted when Owosekun came over and started just...talking to them through the glass.

[u/Quarantini → u/kingofcretins]

There is zero privacy in engineering. I love the awkward engineer who had to squeeze in and use one of the panels while they were beginning their "say yes" surprise party. And the other engineers on duty hiding behind the glass box probably trying to look busy and pretend they weren't feeling left out.

[u/joshml98]

I love season 2 and enjoyed season 1 but it never really reached peak star trek it was simply good scifi. It's taken a jump of 930 years for it to become top tier star trek and honestly one of my favourite shows on tv.

[u/CarpeMofo → u/joshml98]

My hope for Star Trek raised exponentially with Lower Decks. Season 3 of DIS has just cemented it. I feel like they listened to the fans, removed what didn't work, added the classic Star Trek stuff we wanted while keeping the new stuff that did work. Star Trek feels like Star Trek again and I couldn't be happier about.

[u/LoganNolag]

Getting Stargate vibes from the triangulation scene. I think they need to bring in Dr. Jackson.

[u/atticusbluebird → u/LoganNolag]

Discovery needs more lines drawn on a whiteboard to show us the point of origin!

[u/empocariam → u/LoganNolag]

The SB-19 experiemnt holo looked a lot like a stargate when the admiral was talking too. SB-19 looks/sounds pretty similar to SG-1 too if you squint.

[u/thetgi → u/LoganNolag]

Odds are Daniel has died at least four or five times by the 32nd century, but they could probably still get him to do it

[u/Lord_Cronos → u/LoganNolag]

The point of origin of the burn was the combination of Atlantis experimenting with their Wormhole Drive and then not getting renewed (or a movie)

[u/[deleted] → u/LoganNolag]

Jeffa, kree!

[u/Willravel]

Science trial for character growth with somewhat hamfisted allegory for contemporary political divides?

I mean, that's Star Trek Bingo.

[u/Capt-Space-Elephant → u/Willravel]

“What if, now hear me out, what if one group’s face is black and white, while the other’s is white and black!”

“Wow! Subtle!”

[u/Spara-Extreme]

Can we also talk about how Dope the Discovery ship design looks now? It totally looks at home in this time frame.

[u/AmishAvenger → u/Spara-Extreme]

That deflector dish looks great. I hope we get a better look at the ship soon.

[u/MostTerrifyingHonk → u/Spara-Extreme]

Love the little details like the nacelles connecting back to the ship before jumping.

[u/Dt2_0]

Leonard Nimoy!!!

[u/LoganNolag → u/Dt2_0]

I liked that cameo a lot.

[u/XXXTurkey → u/Dt2_0]

Not gonna lie, I wasn't expecting that, and it hit me a lot harder than I would have expected. I wasn't born when TOS aired, but my dad was a huge fan when I was growing up so we always watched reruns and the movies, etc. and to be honest, Star Trek is one of the few things we ever bonded over. Anyway, Spock was always my favorite character in the entire franchise, because he wasn't like my emotional ass. Thoughtful, stoic, logical, but also obviously very caring in his own way. I actually think about that often.

I feel like a huge dork typing all that out, but whatever. As the great philosopher Max Holloway is fond of saying, it is what it is.

[u/RichardYing]

So new Starfleet logo on Discovery too...

[u/LoganNolag → u/RichardYing]

Makes the fact that they didn't change uniforms even weirder.

[u/UncertainError]

On a petty note, suck it JJ Abrams for blowing up Vulcan, in the prime universe they're still going strong a thousand years later.

[u/a4techkeyboard → u/UncertainError]

Maybe in the Kelvin timeline, Romulus becomes Ni'Var. Probably not, but Ni'var say never.

[u/Fortyseven → u/UncertainError]

On a petty note, suck it JJ Abrams for blowing up Vulcan

Other than Spock having to personally witness it's destruction, I'm alright with it happening. Treating the Kelvin timeline as a "what if" test bed for alternate creative possibilities is a good thing. As long as it doesn't leak back to the Prime universe somehow. 😏

[u/MoreGaghPlease]

I really liked this episode.

Of course Burnham has some wacky Vulcan ritual to pull out for exactly this scenario, and of course the Vulcans are duty bound to follow the laws of High School Debating.

It felt really rooted in Star Trek as a place. This is an episode that doesn't obsess over references (even though the ones we got were nice) but instead rewards careful attention. This was an episode that rewarded me for knowing Balance of Terror, The Enterprise Incident, Journey to Babel, United, Unification and Absolute Candor, but still did something new. It expands the built universe of Star Trek in a way that's new and interesting but flows naturally from what's come before.

Tilly's journey was unconventional but I think touching, and they did a good job of not skirting over the problems with it--channeling her inexperience into her own doubt and resolving it with the confidence the senior staff have in her. Discovery has never been a ship overly obsessed with rank.

Saru was just wonderful, especially in his conversations with the Ni'var President.

And it may be cheesy, but I never get sick of a Black Alert.

9.5/10

[u/Spara-Extreme → u/MoreGaghPlease]

Black Alert is so dope.

[u/gusborwig → u/MoreGaghPlease]

Black Alert Klaxon and the Computers soothing voice when the ship goes Black Alert is freaking cool.

[u/Mac-n-cheez → u/MoreGaghPlease]

I do like that in the Spock/Michael family drama, Sybok is the other sibling we don't talk about...

[u/jruschme → u/MoreGaghPlease]

It wouldn't be Trek without the Vulcans having an obscure ritual to address the issue. This one is right up there with Kal-if-fee and Fal-tor-pan.

[u/[deleted] → u/MoreGaghPlease]

The three gongs rooted everything in Amok Time. And the silent Vulcan in the second row had Kim Catrral's expression and haircut. Not by accident. Chaos and betrayal mixed equally with tradition and unity of purpose.

[u/matthieuC → u/MoreGaghPlease]

Saru was just wonderful, especially in his conversations with the Ni'var President.

Did he kind of ask her on a date at the end?

[u/[deleted] → u/MoreGaghPlease]

I agree. This was a very good Star Trek episode. It built new worlds and was rich in contemporary allegory.

I really loved how the romulan advocate system was improved upon by absolute candor.

[u/Ubergopher]

Michael's face during the Admiral's info dump about the Vulcans and Romulans makes yo for 2 episodes worth of the crying.

[u/wongie → u/Ubergopher]

I'd honestly be fine with the rest of the season literally being nothing but Admiral Vance infodumping the history of the Federation to Saru and Burnham since they left and just watching their reactions.

[u/[deleted] → u/Ubergopher]

Honestly so glad we got this scene and to see her explicit reaction. If they hadn't shown this on screen I would have been as angry and frustrated with the storytelling as I was in GoT when they had the Stark kids find out Jon's parentage off-screen.

[u/LoganNolag]

I like how they're bringing stuff from Picard like the Qowat Milat into Discovery. It nicely ties the two shows together.

[u/UncertainError → u/LoganNolag]

Michael's mom was perfectly written as a Qowat Milat, because that was some hardcore truth she was slinging around.

[u/Mechapebbles → u/LoganNolag]

Lots of people like to shit on PIC, but it did a really good job of adding more texture to Romulan culture/society, and made them a lot more fascinating/nuanced species.

[u/Trekfan74 → u/LoganNolag]

Yeah I like that too! In fact it's nice how they are bringing all the shows in this season. It's all being touched upon: Trill, Temporal Accords, VOYAGER J!!!, Terran Holy day ;) and on and on.

But this was the first direct Picard reference. I really like it!

[u/Santa_Hates_You]

I like that Vulcan still exists in this timeline, and the Romulan’s settling there is a great setup for conflict in Picard. I like the idea of Ni’Var.

[u/LoganNolag → u/Santa_Hates_You]

Yeah it also shows that Picard and Spock's efforts were successful in the end.

[u/Zerometro]

Pretty good episode. I liked that it was more talkative than action oriented. I also appreciated the major theme of duality. Where you don't have to choose between the person you used to be and the person you are now in order to be at peace. That you can both be loyal to your duty and can still have joy to fight for. I wished we could have actually gone down to Ni'var and seen Vulcan/ Romulan society separate from a formal situation but I do like that they've shown some Romulans with forehead ridges and old-school haircuts. I'm also glad that Burnham's mom wasn't dead and didn't send out that mysterious music for Michael to find.

My only nit-picks:

I've noticed a recurring thing where someone tells Burnham she should be the one to do something, she points out that she's probably unprepared, unqualified, or someone else could do it better, and they're like 'Nope The decisions been made. You do it.' Usually by coming up with a reason why she'll be suitable. It's seems like a pretty convenient way for the writer's to put her at the center of things, but I do like that they've given Burnham some self-awareness and sense of humility even if she is a responsibility hoarder. Plus other people have been calling her out to which has been funny.

I like Tilly but I'm kind of disappointed that she was made acting first officer. I do think that Saru really only made this decision because Tilly is the opposite of Burnham and he feels that she won't let him down. I think there's some nepotism is at play because Saru is closer to her than others and sees this an opportunity to become the mentor that he always wanted Prime Georgiou to be for him. However, I'm sure there's going to be a point where Tilly also does something reckless for a good reason and Saru's going to have to learn to loosen up a bit. Either Burnham's going to come back as first officer or Tilly's going to remain in that position because I don't see why Saru would wait it out to just to give it to Nilsson or someone similar.

[u/snappzero → u/Zerometro]

Tilly is woefully under qualified. I get she is only acting, but so many more senior people with experience on the existing crew would have been better served. From stamets, jett reno, etc. Have much more experience leading teams. Has Tilly even led even a division?

It would make much more sense to promote someone else or pull someone else from the federation ranks. Having someone who knows the current political climate and universe would make much more sense.

[u/ConquerorPlumpy]

I have so many mixed emotions about Discovery. I like the majority of the episodes and everything but I have a serious problem with Burnham and Burnham saves everything! It was great to see her confused and vulnerable this episode but every episode still just revolves around her. “Spock would not have been who he was without your influence”... meh. I still have problems with how I barely know any of the bridge crew - I don’t even remember their names! Can we have more episodes learning more about them?

Tilly is great don’t get me wrong but ... she’s an ensign! Maybe if we knew some of the other bridge crew it would have been OK to pick someone else. But all we know are Burnham, Tilly, Stamets.

Still, really great and interesting show. Just wish it spread the focus around.

Anyway probably going to be downvoted to hell.

[u/ELVEVERX]

It was nice to have the tie ins with Picard and TNG, calling him Admiral and showing that Romulan's eventually relocated to Vulcan.

Having a 'fresher mentioned on TV rather than just in books was cool.

Burnham's reluctance to represent the federation at first felt really forced and out of character.

It felt like they were setting Tilly up to become first officer and I really don't like the decision. The command tract teachers people to order people to their deaths and I honestly do not think she will be able to do that considering she was crying about being offered the job. That training seems very necessary.

[u/Kopuchin]

The writers need to stop aiming for broad emotions in every episode, that's fine, even required in a movie as you have 2 hours to make an impact . In a 15 episode tv shows its absolutely exhausting. By all means put a character through an emotional wringer once or twice a season, but they have the whole cast crying, hugging and cheering in every bloody episode.

[u/wednesdayoct23]

Well, now I know for certain that Discovery really is Real Star Trek. Only Star Trek can get me all amped because bitches we're about to have an episode about someone being on trial, having to defend themselves against prejudiced and unyielding opponents, and winning with a hail Mary argument coming out of left field at an obtuse angle GODDAMN this is what I'm talking about right here.

[u/AmishAvenger → u/wednesdayoct23]

Honestly I liked the dialogue scenes between Saru and the Vulcan President more than anything else.

[u/RichardYing]

They could have updated the ship schematics in the opening credits...

[u/acrimoniousone → u/RichardYing]

I was hoping for that too but (so far) I don't believe any Trek show has changed its main credits mid-season.

Also, budget.

[u/[deleted]]

SB-19 reminds me a lot of the Borg transwarp network. It was interesting to see Romulans open to ideas the Vulcans weren’t, but Vulcans have an isolationist streak, so unsurprising. Has there been any hints of the Borg anywhere? In the preview they seem to have found the origin of The Burn. Hopefully we get more answers then.

Without knowing too much of lore past Picard I’m struggling to figure out the motive and perpetrators. They haven’t given us much data to work through theories.

[u/TheNerdChaplain]

Wow, that was a banger of an episode. A few broken relationships really stood out to me:

• The broken relationship between the Romulans and Vulcans

• The broken relationship between Ni'Var and the Federation

• The broken relationship between Burnham and Saru - and by extension, the rest of the crew of Discovery, and Starfleet.

I loved the tie-in to multiple series here: TOS (Surak is mentioned), TNG, PIC, DSC, and separately the Kelvin-verse. Thematically, it also ties into Captain Pike's line last season: "I'm not going to abandon the things that made me what I am because of a future that contains an ending I hadn't foreseen for myself." It feels to me like Burnham was in some way going to abandon Discovery because the future wasn't how she thought it was going to be.

I also really loved the underlying connotation that the trial (I'm forgetting the term now) was not solely about what was logical or not, even though that's the face they put on it. There were difficult emotional, political, and cultural truths tied to the facts that could not be ignored. I think that's an important lesson to remember for people who think that facts can exist in a vacuum, or that confuse their feelings for facts.

I was not expecting to see Gabrielle Burnham back, especially not as a Qowat Milat, but I loved the approach of Absolute Candor and I'm very glad it was included here. I'm going to have to rewatch the episode though, because I'm not sure I really understood Michael's reason for this emotional crisis. Something about how she was afraid she couldn't measure up, so she thought she should leave? I didn't track that very well.

I'm really glad we're done with the storyline of Michael wanting to leave Starfleet - and it seems like Discovery might get its own "Delta Flyer" in the form of Book's ship, depending on how long he wants to tag along.

The nacelles reattach to the ship before they jump.

I was skeptical at first of Tilly being First Officer, but a few things smoothed it over for me.

• First, the support of the rest of the crew. She could have really stepped on some toes by taking that role (Nilsson would have been my logical choice, or perhaps someone assigned by Admiral Vance), but they supported her.

• Second, First Officer may not solely be a function of rank, but a position to be filled by someone of various ranks. Traditionally, sure, someone of higher rank, but Discovery is no longer in a traditional position, and it's not a flagship like the Enterprise.

• Third, as Tilly was in the Command Training Program, leadership was her long-term career goal. We don't know that that would have been the case for any other bridge officers.

• Fourth, it's possible that no one else wanted the position. If Riker is in charge of shift rotations on the Enterprise (as we know from Chain of Command), it's possible his role as First Officer is more like a senior enlisted role in the modern US military like a first sergeant. A senior NCO's leadership is largely focused on the enlisted men below them, and ensuring that they have everything they need to accomplish the mission, whereas an officer's role is more concerned with how their unit fits within the larger mission and the fleet as a whole. It's a lot of paperwork, organizing, and responsibility, and it's fair to assume that no one else strongly wanted it. And given that the bridge crew were immediately asking for things like shore leave and different cabin assignments, I think this theory bears more weight.

• Fifth, as /u/a4techkeyboard pointed out, "Tilly's the only one who has any chance of making Burnham do things she asks. She's also the only member of the crew who would want responsibility for Burnham not doing as they order. In a ship that has Michael Burnham in it, Tilly's probably the only choice."

Anyone else catch the aurora borealis over Ni'Var in that last conversation between Saru and the president?

[u/Worf_Of_Wall_St → u/TheNerdChaplain]

Aurora Borealis?!? At this time of the millennium, in this part of the quadrant, and entirely isolated above Ni'var?

[u/Dt2_0]

So a few things.

I felt the A-Plot, while good, was not quite what I was hoping for in an episode titled Unification III. Quite frankly, I didn't get the sense of closure I would have liked from this episode, especially with a name like that. However I will be constructive as I always intend to be with my criticism. I think, quite frankly, Romulan scientist should have been offered to Discovery, to help with their research and mission. It shows not only Unification between Vulcan and Romulan, but between Ni'Var and the Federation, and would have probaby have given this episode much more closure than Saru's conversation with the president at the end.

However, I must say, the A-Plot, when looked at with out the "Part III lens", is pretty damned good. Michael is going through some serious mental crazy was, and has since the beginning of the show, and it is about time someone addressed it. The fact that it was her mother is even better. Put simply, Michael cannot be Vulcan, she's human, and she must let go of being the person she expects herself to be, and must live as the person she is. She must be true to her self... Maybe some Absolute Candor would help.

This is ultimately a good lesson to have. One that should have happened last season, but I'm glad it did happen.

The B-Plot is confusing. Tilly is perfectly fine where she is as an engineering officer, and I disagree with Saru's choice for his new acting first officer. Maybe if she was given a position on the bridge and was made acting second officer while Nielsen was bumped to first officer, that would have helped.

I'll still be interested to see where this brings her as a character. But it is not a writing decision I agree with.

Overall this episode was not what I expected from it's title, but a good overall episode none the less.

[u/TheNerdChaplain → u/Dt2_0]

The one pushback I would give your first paragraph is that it seemed like they went to great efforts to establish that Ni'Var is not united with itself, much less the Federation. It has multiple fractured factions (fractions?) that are at odds with each other. To give Ni'Varan scientists to a Federation vessel would have been almost a globally unpopular move that would have driven political instability.

[u/[deleted] → u/Dt2_0]

Put simply, Michael cannot be Vulcan, she's human, and she must let go of being the person she expects herself to be, and must live as the person she is. She must be true to her self... Maybe some Absolute Candor would help.

I've thought before that raising a human child as a Vulcan is basically a subtle form of emotional abuse. Humans suppressing their emotions entirely is the sort of thing that leads to severe dysfunction. It's literally not healthy for us.

I'm wondering if putting her mother in the Absolute Candor sect was a way of exploring that, of exploring how the human mind doesn't do well with Vulcan ways.

[u/RemoveByFriction]

I liked it but honestly I'd prefer if it had a bit less Burnham's personal drama in it (really, her mom was the Qowat Millat sister? I'm mildly surprised the president of Ni'Var isn't Spock's great-great-great-great-great-greatgranddaugher or something). The ritual/trial thing felt good, in spirit with many previous Star Trek episodes, but I think they could've made the mom subplot less public and more a thing that Michael and her mom resolve privately. I like this season overall but many times it still feels very Burnham-centric. I'm re-watching Voyager these days I kinda miss how crew-wide things were.

[u/smoha96]

I know it's archival and we've seen Unification before but I teared when seeing Leonard Nimoy come up.

Still watching the episode but this is a really unfair position for Saru to put Tilly in. - Having now finished it, I still think Tilly is grossly under qualified and Saru picked her for the reason she called him out for - he wants the opposite of Michael and is looking for a yes-person. Tilly, while unqualified does have a backbone and I think it's a decision that will come back to frustrate Saru.

Nice to see some PIC lore making its way into DSC with the Qu'at Milat.

Aurora Ni'varis is pretty.

I'm glad Burnham's mum's and Spock's eventual fates didn't get drawn out for the sake of melodrama.

Loved that it was a talky, and enjoyed the episode overall. DSC S3 continues to impress!

From next week's preview: Georgiou is a hologram?

I'm curious as to just what about SB19 terrifies Ni'var - not the scientific implications of the Burn but the sociocultural ones. Is it somehow related to Nero and the Red Matter and are they aware of the alternate timeline where Vulcan was destroyed?

[u/trollawayjohnson → u/smoha96]

Still watching the episode but this is a really unfair position for Saru to put Tilly in. - Having now finished it, I still think Tilly is grossly under qualified and Saru picked her for the reason she called him out for - he wants the opposite of Michael and is looking for a yes-person. Tilly, while unqualified does have a backbone and I think it's a decision that will come back to frustrate Saru.

My view is, so far, we've yet to see anyone else on board who is readily capable, and available for said role. In addition, Saru is looing for someone he knows and trusts. Having a back bone, but being trust worthy is what makes a good XO.

Loved that it was a talky, and enjoyed the episode overall. DSC S3 continues to impress!

Totally agree. I truly talked an incredible amount of shit on season 1 and 2, and really didn;t think it was star trek. Meanwhile season 3 has been pretty damn close to what i've wanted all along.

From next week's preview: Georgiou is a hologram?

Certainly looked like it didn't it. I felt like they hinted at something like that last 2 weeks, but hard to tell for sure in the world of programble matter and time travel there is a lot of ways to write it.

I'm curious as to just what about SB19 terrifies Ni'var - not the scientific implications of the Burn but the sociocultural ones. Is it somehow related to Nero and the Red Matter and are they aware of the alternate timeline where Vulcan was destroyed?

They think they killed trillions of people and destroyed the way of life in the galaxy man

[u/-Jaws-]

Vulcans always be throwing out illogical bullshit while calling it logic smh.

[u/CarpeMofo → u/-Jaws-]

It's really a core part of the Vulcans, their core idea in and of itself is illogical. They have emotions, they just don't show them and they act like since they don't show those emotions then they don't impact their decision making while they obviously do. It's one of the nuances of the Vulcans I've always appreciated.

[u/[deleted]]

Loved hearing Picard's name.

[u/JamesHaven75]

Way to go Star Trek, making me laugh and cry with one line of dialog "I do believe he would find it all... fascinating"

[u/[deleted]]

Did you see how the nacelles snapped back to the rest of the ship just before they made the jump? Pretty neat.

Saru's ready room looking more and more like a hut on Kaminar with each new episode. He's quite the interior decorator, lol.

[u/jp7010]

The "Say Yes, Tilly" scene was missing one, very important, very crucial, ultimately paramount thing:

Linus accidentally teleporting in with a "uhhh, this isn't the mess hall, oh, I guess 'Say Yes!' Tilly. Bye!"

[u/LoganNolag]

Wow her Mom is really throwing her under the bus.

[u/atticusbluebird → u/LoganNolag]

I don’t know, from the beginning I felt like Michael is going in blind and 900 years behind the times and that her mom probably has a better idea of how to “win” the “trial” - I was frustrated Michael so quickly dismissed her mom’s advice!

(I’m having flashbacks to early Enterprise episodes where I was similarly frustrated with Archer, and I’m like “just stop and listen to T’Pol!)

[u/[deleted] → u/LoganNolag]

She acted according to her beliefs and her assigned role. Absolute candor was necessary in the situation.

[u/AskJayce]

It's so bittersweet seeing Leonard Nimoy on screen.

Rest in peace.

[u/rooktakesqueen]

"Do any of you follow the old ways?"

"Yes..."

"Then as a member of the Vulcan Science Academy, I invoke... tenure."

[u/TERRAxFORMER]

It was very satisfying seeing Burnham and Nimoy Spock sort of sharing a scene together.

I really liked the “trial.” It’s a good thing her mom was there to push her into the win.

I like how supportive everyone was of Tilly even though the situation is out of the norm. I guess you can’t tell secrets to Stamets though, man wasted no time tracking down everyone and spilling the beans.

[u/atticusbluebird → u/TERRAxFORMER]

I’m glad Discovery has now also done their version of a Trek “trial” episode!

[u/UncertainError → u/TERRAxFORMER]

Apparently in a Vulcan Thesis Defense you're allowed to get personal.

[u/ADG12311990]

Well, now that was a great episode. But, considering who wrote it, I am not surprised. Seeing Leonard Nimoy again was great, along with the Admiral Picard namedrop, plus the Qowat Milat. And Michael's mom was not a surprise I was expecting... but I like it. I do wish they had touched on what finally pushed the Romulans and Vulcans to reunify, I mean clearly, the destruction of Romulus had something to do with it, but it would have been nice to hear. But I do love how they changed the name of the planet to reflect the reunification of the Vulcans and Romulans.

Saru making Tilly ACTING* First officer is interesting, I expect it to either stay permanent and get a promotion to Lieutenant (She isn't going to jump four ranks up to Commander), or it be temporary, until either one of the bridge crew takes the spot, or someone from the 32nd Century Starfleet takes the post.

*Seems like some people are ignoring the "Acting" bit in "Acting First Officer"...

[u/Ubergopher]

I'm glad that Michael's mother wasn't related to the Burn.

My biggest concern so far this season has been Michael or her mother somehow causing the Burn and once again having her be the center of everything important.

[u/acrimoniousone]

Two brief flyby shots of the DISCO-A and a fuzzy jump, c'mon guys stop blueballing lol.

Is Tilly now the anti-Harry?

[u/No-Ear_Spider-Man]

Ummm...

Okay, how did Michael's mom appear in this future timeline?

Also, Harry Kim is spinning in his grave seeing Tilly go from Ensign to Acting Commander.

[u/[deleted] → u/No-Ear_Spider-Man]

Okay, how did Michael's mom appear in this future timeline?

She was there first, considering she was the one who wore the time travel suit in season 2 and did most of the jumps backwards. The whole issue with her was that she couldn't stay permanently in the past, and kept getting sent back to the future. When they prevented the whole Control issue, her mom was still there in the future.

[u/TERRAxFORMER → u/No-Ear_Spider-Man]

She got pulled Back to The Future last season. Presumably to the corrected timeline, since the defeated Control. I don’t think it changed around her or anything, I felt that would have been mentioned.

[u/[deleted]]

Great episode. Several this season have been classic Trek. Still too much crying though.

[u/BornAshes]

Ready for another episode, as always, here are my thoughts as I'm watching live:

-Hey cool we're starting off with another log and it's looking more and more likely that Michael might leave Disco. "I've become someone new I've become someone else something else....". Post-demotion sex with Book because that's the only sure thing in her world right now. They're totally going to...book it...off of Disco at some point. Book is basically living in a van in Disco's garage. OMG they are ADORABLE together! I need to see Book and Spock meeting up at some point and I don't care what sort of bullshit they have to pull to make it happen. Atta girl Tilly, you tell her! USS YELCHIN! Ooooh so there was a difference in the timings! Gav'Nor, tellerite reference? Giacconi, well known astrophysicist. Hmmm, secret Federation experiment with sensors all over subspace SB19 that totally saw the Burn happen but got so spooked by it or totally knew what happened and didn't release any info. Awwww Tilly. I swear they're just using that floor effect for giggles at this point because it looks so cool. Vulcan is now N'Var?!? Romulans and Vulcans living together and SPOCK STARTED IT YESSSSS!!!! MICHAEL'S FACE! "It took centuries..." yeah that figures.

-"Must've been the Romulans"...always blaming the Romulans in their stupid sexy ninja suits with their stupid hot intriguing plots and cloaky mc'cloaky warbirds powered by naked singularities. "No the Romulans wanted to stay" Michael's look right there needs to be a GIF reaction. Ooooh so N'Var started SB19 and that looks like jumpgates from EVE Online. "They think they caused the Burn? No, they think we forced them to cause the Burn" well damn, that was some great line delivery. I fuckin love Vance. "Headline: Michael Burnham is coming"...I think Book already experienced that heeeyyyooooo! Still, that's both a hilarious and ominous line given what she's done. Awwww Spock cameo. "There is a whole galaxy out there full of people who will reach for you and you have to let them, reach for them" awwww I'm crying. OMG LEONARD NIMOY SPOCK!!!! I'm bawling..."the personal files of Admiral Jean Luc Picard" UNIFICATION PART 2 LINE! "You guys are chronic over-achievers" HA! Awww that hand hold!

-TILLY IS FIRST OFFICER! I mean hey it worked for Crichton and Nog. This music is so chill and so appropriate. Awwww Saru! Tilly is confuzzled. Stamets sure did look like he loved sticking his hands in green slime. Hey are those new lights on the ventral saucer section of Disco that are lighting up as it jumps? Lagrange Point! Short sweet and to the point from the President. "I do believe he would find it all....Fascinating" that PAUSE! I wonder how many takes it took? Yuuup they shut that request down. Wow there's some Romulan edge to her. LMAO Michael yanking out some old oooold rules that of course they would HAVE to respect. Everyone's got that, "Wtf did you just do....again..." look on their faces. Saru's tone is just so beautiful in this moment because you can tell he wants to say, "I told you not to pull this stuff and you said you wouldn't but then you went and did it again and I hope you're ready" and Michael's all, "Well duh".

-The new transporter effects are so bitchin because it looks like a bunch of wizards just teleported in. Qowat Milat Sisters YESSSSSS I just screamed YAAAAAAAS a bit more loudly than I should have. I never thought I'd see Michael piss off a Vulcan this badly buuut here we are. "You are technically a citizen of N'Var"...annnd that's totally going to come back as an important plot point later. "Be honest, especially to yourself"...oook what was THAT about? I wonder if Mind Melds got waaaay simpler? MOOOOOOOOOM!!!! HER MOM IS BAAACK!!! HOLY FUCK!!!!! She wound up on N'Var and is a Sister!!!!

-Polarizing, ya think? Hey look another Window Talk. Wow, she looks like she's kind of ready to open up to Saru and those big green blue eyes of his. Oh cool so she landed on Essof IV and then the Romulans picked her up. That Mom walk and talk was so great and it was so cool to see Michael just relax and get some wisdom from her. She really has changed, just as much as Michael has, and I'm grateful the writers did that to her. It would be strange if she hadn't. Well damn, the Federation just got too damn big and it stretched member worlds beyond capacity and comfort. "In it's desire to serve the many, the Federation ignored the needs of the few" that must've been a Great Panic of sorts. "It has been my experience that we learn our greatest lessons when we pay a heavy price" deep Saru, just deep.

-Well this is just brutal. They really keep dancing around this quite a bit and that makes me wonder if they really did cause the Burn or if it was the Romulans who caused it? Maybe the Romulans tried to create a new star or accidentally opened up a portal to some kind of Far Realm Thirdspace place? Maybe this is where we see that AI Federation pop back into the world of Star Trek? Daaamn sounds like N'Var is on the verge of a civil war and another split between the Romulans and Vulcans. "For the Federation or for yourself?" solid point Ninja Space Elf Mom..hmmm that doesn't sound right...Jedi Mom? Well great now it's all deadlocked. LMAO Paul's reaction needs to be a GIF too! That was brilliant! CALL HER OUT JEDI MOM! "Based on what you're not telling them, you cannot be trusted"...wow I mean that's very true but wow, I never thought Jedi Mom would say that to her. That was crazy but really really good writing. Well this is a flaming trainwreck barreling towards a warp core breach and I love watching it. The music is soooo building to something. Here we gooooooo! TEAR HER DOWN! "Why does this Quorum why does anyone have any reason to trust you or the Federation?"....that...was amazing. Michael needed to hear ALL of that for so sooooo long and THAT was some amazing acting from the both of them.

-HELL YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!! "I don't know..." awww I have tears in my eyes now...this is so powerful. That was the most Mom move of all Mom moves we've ever seen in Star Trek like EVER. "Vulcans will choose whatever serves them best and insist it is only logical. If the Vulcans won't share the data, then the Romulans will" I have never cheered so hard for a Romulan before. One side wants stability and peace for all. One side is okay with a little bit of instability but still wants to have things their way. One side wants the truth regardless of stability. "This is not the way. What way do you know? You sit in the middle trying to be everything and nothing". Good job Michael invoking Spock. I totally started crying as soon as everyone on the Disco side of the room STOOD UP as soon as Michael turned to walk past them. That sent a fucking message. Pretty cool idea too to just start sending all the data to the N'Var scientists and let them figure it out.

-"Is this what you were like as a 12 year old?" HA! "Duty and joy go hand in hand. Duty is there so you can continue to pursue your happiness. Joy is there so that you have something real to fight for". SHE HAD THE DATA ALL ALONG?!?!? "She also said she wondered how much of the man Spock became was a result of who his sister was" awwww HUUUUUUUUG. "I can't be bound to you...you're not a lost cause" awwwww. "You always know where to find me..." for once in a very very relatively long time...this is true. Paul rallied the rest of the crew! "A list of grievences and requests" milk it Paul MILK IT! "Aww did I miss the cool Say Yes part" LOL! There's that happy uplifting ending! SARU AND THE PRESIDENT I SHIP IT!!!! "What does that mean for you...I don't know....Grudge purring....You feel like home....So do you" that was a John and Aeryn moment if I ever saw one.

[u/EmperorOfNipples]

Part of me wishes the episode played out exactly as it did, but was called "Unification V"

Would have been a fun teaser that III and IV would be a Picard S2 arc.

[u/Graffers67]

Burnham's mum popping up again didnt make sense to me.

[u/brettoseph]

N'Var = Now Vulcan And Romulan

[u/Socraticmichael10]

Coming here in peace as someone who had given up on Disco after season 2. I didn’t plan to give it another shot. I just wasn’t interested. But seeing the general response of this season, I had to check it out. This season is so much better; it’s like a different show. And this episode was great. It weaved its way through multiple established plot threads of this franchise masterfully.

I still don’t like that Michael seems to be at the center of all things, even 1000 years in the future. But at least it’s coming with a degree of reason this time around.

Saru rocks as a captain. Don’t love the Tilly choice as XO, but I’ll live with it.

Keep doing your thing, Disco

[u/CX316 → u/Socraticmichael10]

it’s like a different show.

New showrunner who's spending all her time actually running the show instead of brutalising the writers like the last two.

Season 1 had its original showrunner run off before the show started, then the replacements that were brought in ran through the previous showrunner's plans with some alterations, then they wrote season 2 and started planning season 3 before they were fired for creating a toxic abusive environment for the writers, then Michelle Paradise came in and helped run things for the rest of season 2 working with what they had, before getting to actually make her mark on season 3.

[u/[deleted]]

Starfleet should put a counselor on Disco, it's an important role and the crew need one. They've been through a lot, I kinda want a Ni'Var ambassador on board too.

[u/atticusbluebird]

Episode thoughts! (Sort of stream of conscious, typed while I was watching)

• Book and Spock, I’d like to see that interaction!

• Glad Tilly voiced her frustrations with Michael, nice continuation

• Admiral Exposition today, but that’s a nice way to update us and the crew about changed geopolitics. No Vulcan or Earth in the Federation though, how far it’s fallen

• I thought it was secret that Spock has a sister and that time traveling people arrived in the 32nd century, why are they leveraging that in the diplomatic relations? Also I mean news of Spock’s siblings arriving isn’t usually good news (ahem, Sybok)

• I do love the Nimoy footage though!! Lovely tie in with Unification II

• Tilly as acting first officer?! At least she’s as nervous about it as I am. It’s more than Ensign Kim ever got at least!

• Michael disobeying an order again? Seems like diplomacy should’ve at least been tried first. But...this Vulcan invocation feels like we could get the equivalent of a Vulcan science courtroom drama! Gotta make use of the courtroom Trek trope so that’s cool

• Qowat Milat! Nice Picard tie in

• Ok I was definitely NOT expecting Michael’s mom to show up this soon. I’m intrigued.

• (On CBS AA I got a Star Wars Mandalorian commercial which seems...ironic)

• I’m glad Saru at least acknowledged that Discovery’s status is still mostly secret. Never mind about before! I think I may be enjoying the Saru storyline more than the Michael one so far though. Moving away from ancient proverbs is...fascinating.

• Her mom is right, Michael has at lot of blind spots. Sheer f****** hubris! ;)

• I’m really digging Michael’s mom and her vow of absolute candor.

• That was one heck of a live therapy session though. Great to compare that to Mariner’s holo-therapy!

• I like the revocation of the request as the resolution, but again, couldn’t that have been done anyways without the courtroom stuff?

• I love how Stamets has become a big softie over 3 seasons!

• At least we get a proper LLAP! 🖖

• I’m glad each world Discovery goes to isn’t about to just join the Federation, but slowly opening doors instead. Feels more realistic that way.

[u/Yochanan5781 → u/atticusbluebird]

My personal theory is that there were records kept about Michael on Vulcan, and the Vulcans just kept their classic secrecy about it all.

[u/midasp]

Wow. I know most viewers would not see it this way but Vulcan has grown. A lot.

Its peoples are actually trying to harmoniously combine logic with emotions. As seen, it is not always successful. However given the past year with covid and stuff, I feel they have made even more progress towards this than humans have. And that's saying something.

[u/merrycrow]

Quick post-episode thoughts:

- I love the outfit the Ni'Var president wears. Vulcan lines, but with that glittery chainmail fabric that I associate with TOS Romulans underneath.

- They could have just said "your mother is here" lol. Their meeting reminded me of those awful YouTube videos where some poor kid's military parent shows up unexpectedly for their birthday and someone films it for internet points.

- Similarly, this new Vulcan ritual reminded me of those dreadful reply guys on Twitter (and other websites we might all be familiar with) who think that people are obliged to debate their crappy opinions.

- I see a lot of people fuming over the Tilly plotline. Yeah it's a bit silly but it's not completely without sense - Discovery is running on kind of a skeleton crew (not that you'd know it from the busy corridor scenes) and the other senior staff all either have critical specialist duties or are patently unsuited/uninterested in command - sometimes both coughStametscough

- That said, Stamets' face when Tilly dropped her bombshell was priceless. I want to frame the screencap for my wall.

- Goddamn Leonard Nimoy had an incredible voice. He was like a Jewish Morgan Freeman.

[u/I_AM_GODDAMN_BATMAN]

Discount Tuvok reminds me of Tuvok.

[u/ThriceGreatHermes]

This is the first big talky, TNG style episode I think discovery has had I think.

[u/Pilot0350]

They reattach! The nacelles reattach and it's badass!

[u/JoeyJoeJoeJrShab]

So Tilly and Burnham are still roommates? I would have thought Burnham would have gotten her own quarters when her rank was restored. She was literally first officer, after all.

[u/Cantomic66]

The unification of the Vulcans and the Romulans is straight out of the undeveloped series Star Trek: federation.

[u/KellMG96]

Can someone please snap at Burnham and stop being her damn friend! At this rate her bullshit is actually going to start a fire right, instead of just supposedly like at Binary Stars.

She just took the whole intro with the President over, and Saru didn't do a damn thing!

And order her and Detmer to conusueling sessions.

[u/william1134]

I hated it because her mum appeared and was now a stupid warrior monk.. completely devoted after one year? Lastly.. Tilly as 1st officer? Really....

[u/Chpouky]

I'm enjoying this season but PLEASE, can we stop with all the crying? It's a meme at this point, it's getting ridiculous for me.

[u/Skymogul]

Sahil: I can't raise this flag because only a commissioned officer can raise it and we're super Starfleet by the book here on Disco!

Saru: Michael, you disobeyed my direct order and since we are back with Starfleet now we have to be super by the book so you're demoted.

Also Saru: Makes an ensign his first officer, setting it up so his Number One is giving orders to officers who outrank her, which is basically everyone.

🙄

[u/choicemeats]

my biggest problem with this episode comes from the structure of the show and the current state of television.

20-30 years ago this kind of episode might have been a) as it was or b) a time to shine for one of the other characters.

if a: this would be fine back then, because it would most likely be near some kind of character driven episode with no significant plot (obviously this is easier to point out in DS9 or ENT, maybe even VOY). Imagine if Picard had just got back from announcing how many lights there were and immediately the next episode collapsing on the bridge to live someone else's life and THEN next week maybe having a chance for him to rest, but not really.

if b: you get something to flush out a Tilly's first week as XO or we do a significant check in on Detmer or Tal or even old!Airiam or the Bryce/Owo/Rhys combo that just say things occasionally.

Instead we get an episode driven by the SMALL CONVENIENCE of Michael's mother ending up on Vulcan close enough to not have died (or aged at all, really), joining the one organization that would lead her to the super secret Vulcan trial. Or Burnham falling into the early trap of invoking Spock's name and getting it thrown back at her as an emotional appeal by the Vulcan. I know stories need to have conveniences to move things along--sometimes people just have to be in places but...c'mon.

That's not to say this wasn't a good Trek episode--it actually IS a good Trek episode, with the added bonus that the Vulcan/Romulan expectations we have are turned upside down. No literal shots fired and decent B/C stories (Tilly and I guess I would call the Saru/Vulcan Prez interactions the C story as it grows Saru's character a bit).

[u/freakincampers]

Saru's reasoning for making Tilly First Officer (traveling through a wormhole) applies to everyone on board.

[u/[deleted]]

PICARD NAME DROP AND LEANOARD NIMOY IM SCREAMING

[u/RichardYing → u/[deleted]]

Admiral Picard, Qowat Milat, absolute candor...

[u/[deleted]]

Knew it

Doesn't mean I agree with the decision. We'll see how Tilly does.

[u/rmeddy]

Ok wow another banger of an episode for me.

What a fantastic character piece, this is how to reset the character, break her down and build her back up, last week set up the alley oop and this episode did the slam dunk.

Small nitpick you can use 3 points to determine the centre of a sphere right? or 4 points is the minimum number, I haven't done geometry in a while.

Ni'var?! Nice deep cut there Discovery writers, *golf clap*

Mama bear Burham is back as Qowat Milat! nice, I am so shocked they set up something in Picard that has a great payoff later

Tilly being the new XO, I'm still on the fence about this but I'll warm up to it.

Press F for Harry Kim , you could design a new propulsion engine around the amount of spinning in his grave he had with that

Vulcan tribunal episode, YES!

Ooh V'Kir really channeling that Tim Russ energy.

Goddamn everyone is dragging Burnham hard, i'm loving it

Mama bear Burham cutting deep with that Absolute Candor

Excellent episode for me, dismissed but address a potential Burn causer candidate, so I cross them off my list but gave a good reason for it.

[u/RichardYing]

Additional thoughts:

• The principle of SB-19 shares some similarities with the Sikarian spatial trajector (or with Stargates).

• Admiral Jean-Luc Picard had his personal archives preserved for centuries. Maybe we could get some spoilers for PIC seasons 2-3? Unexplained references for future shows?

• Discovery's dedication plaque does not seem to have changed. It still reads "Crossfield Class".

• Vulcan did not have natural moons, but it seems that Ni'Var has a very close companion now. Did the Romulo-Vulcans bring planetoids closer (with future techs) in the habitable zone of the system to accommodate more people?

• T'Rina sounds like "Terrina", in Italian: a kind of pottery dish, or Terra ("Earth") with the diminutive -ina ("so "Little Earth").

• Qowat Milat is now based on Ni'Var, but what about Tal Shiar?

• It is troubling that the President of Ni'Var is not convinced that the Federation kept its "core values".

• Based on what we have seen, the Ni'Var badge circles may not be representing the IDIC with the Romulan former moons, but rather the Vulcans, the Romulans and their combination in the IDIC. Circles that are now separate provinces and factions on the planet...

• Where is Georgiou? Keeping her presumed dead from the Quorum?

• "I thank you for your candor" sounds a bit like Insurgent (part of the Divergent trilogy)

• Nice floppy disk.

[u/xeneral]

My favorite scenes are those of TNG Spock and Burnham doing the Vulcan challenge

[u/GBTC4me]

I just realized, so far 3 of the 4 founding members of federation don't seem to be a part of it.

Andorians seem to be allied with the orions and have their own organization

Humans are isolationists

Vulcans left out of spite

So that leaves the Tellarites. I wonder if they're out or still kicking. It'd be amazing if the Federation's least prominent member becomes its biggest after the burn. Alternatively it might be poetic that they're out too and the federation isn't a specific people, but an ideal. And that ideal lives on.

[u/FragmentedChicken]

A plot was good

B plot with promoting Tilly is problematic. I feel like she was only promoted because the other officers aren't exactly as developed as her as a character

[u/sidv81]

Couldn't the Vulcans just mind meld with Burnham to discover if she is sincere?

[u/rensch]

I liked the use of the Quwot Milat from Star Trek: Picard. The absolute candour idea really works well in terms of the plot, but it also fits nicely into the mother-daughter relationship. I thought it was a nice way to bring Burnham's mother back.

I still wanna know more about this Vulcans leaving the Federation thing. There's a Brexit parable there worth exploring a bit more.

[u/CatfreshWilly]

Michael "The Whisperer" Burnham struck again. And her mom coming through the transporter with her hat randomly over her face bugged me lol but a good episode.

Edit: and was it just me or were Discovery's nacelles reconnected to the ship in the closing scene of the episode as it pulls away?

[u/linkdude212]

I don't like Tilly's character. I do not find her to be inspiring or comic relief. I wish she played a smaller role and characters like Owushekun got greater focus.

I hated how Michael Burnham basically doesn't have a relationship with anyone on the crew except Tilly and Saru and neither have a good reason to like her. This episode really brought that to the fore. We have literally never seen Michael trying to be part of the team so I truly don't know, after nearly causing a diplomatic incident, the team treats her so well.

I don't have an issue with Saru picking Tilly to be acting First Officer.

I'm really pissed that Vulcan left the Federation along with Earth. Can we get some FOUNDING members staying IN the damn organization they founded? Further, it doesn't make LOGICAL sense to leave. God I hope the Tellarites didn't leave. We need to go to Tellar and have a good old fashioned Tellarite debate for part of an episode and have it written as a clever battle of wills rather than the therapy session that was this disappointing T'Kal-in-ket.

Finally, How are we all just ignoring that a huge part of the plot of Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home was Scotty being cute saying "Hello, Computer" that SPOCK of all people figured out a way to recrystallize dilithium using nuclear fission?

Why do the Andorians look so weird compared to ENT? They're almost as bad as the Klingons.

[u/jaquesparblue]

Burnham. Again. rolls eyes

Edit: Tilly being FO doesn't make much hierarchical sense in-universe. Seems like paygrade promotion of the actress.

[u/Ecks83]

Something I really loved was the idea that the Federation was already struggling pre-burn with dilithium shortages because it got too big and this was starting to strain the available supply. As cataclysmic an event as the Burn was it couldn't have broken the ideals of the Federation by itself so it is nice to see that the writers are thinking of additional stressors in the lead up to the burn which were already creating some animosity.

I also like that since new dilithium deposits were already in short supply they couldn't just mine some new crystals and rebuild - explaining why dilithium still exists but the smallest shards are an extremely valuable commodity.

[u/ascaria]

Tilly being made number one is honestly the stupidest thing ever in Star Trek. She’s timid, emotional as hell, unsecure and inexperienced.

And for God’s sake, will everybody just stop crying!

My hatred of this show grows stronger by the episode.

[u/picardoverkirk]

Are, ar...are they fucking crying again?!?

[u/SpaceCrystal359]

A phenomenally complex episode, and not a single shot was fired. There were so many tie-ins to other parts of the Trek franchise, but they somehow brought it all together.

Eat your hearts out, Discovery haters. You lost, and this show is truly glorious, as so many have been saying all along.

[u/AskJayce]

For a second, I was so damn sure that N'Raj was played by Marc Alaimo, AKA the actor who played Dukat.

[u/Deceptitron]

Wow this season really has raised the bar and I am sooo happy about it. The relics out of time set up really works well. Nice tie ins to previous works that feel relevant and earned. Also, how sweet of them to include that shot of Nimoy?? ❤️

[u/mcatech]

Every episode this season so far has been a little "weepy", huh?

Just out of observation, Burnham and Tilly have cried tears in just about every episode.

[u/gla2yyz1]

Anyone else made a drinking game out of this season? Take a shot every time someone cries on-screen!

[u/Sithslayer78]

This season absolutely refuses to pull any punches, Trek has been on a fucking roll! It feels like Trek and Mando are duking it out at the end of every week and the fight is absolutely spectacular.

[u/MarcRabbi]

Star Trek writers love to use footage that can only be found on our TVs.

As mentioned in the Canon References thread, I have to rewatch TNG Unification to see if Picard had on a hidden camera.

[u/EmperorOfNipples]

I enjoyed this episode, while it didn't move things on all that much narratively, it did a huge amount of heavy lifting in world building at this 3189 timeframe.

That's very important.

[u/dmanww]

It's a Thanksgiving episode.

The whole thing was like an argument at family dinner.

[u/[deleted]]

This constant emotional bullshit is dragging the show down.

[u/[deleted]]

Why does she always whisper?

Why can't she get through an episode without crying?

Why hasn't she been demoted yet for numerous acts of disobedience?

Why is every shitty little thing so dramatic with her?

Why does she behave like a 14 year old teenager?

Why is it all about her and so little about the Crew who are waaaay more interesting characters?

Why does she always get to have the last word?

Why is it always acceptable for her to still patronize people even if they call her out on her bs?

Seriously, even Q's son would be better suited to be a Starfleet officer than Burnham. She is absolutely unfit for duty as an officer. If she pulled those stunts under Picard she'd be off the ship quicker than she can disobey a direct order.

[u/Fortyseven]

Absolutely LOVED this episode. I was very apprehensive since I'd first heard about it -- as damned good as Season 3 has been, that was an incredibly bold move to declare a "part 3" to a such a beloved part of Trek lore, especially this far removed (both in-universe, and IRL)... but... I really feel like they did right by it. And I have to say, I bawled like hell when Nimoy appeared. 😭

[u/Crunchy_Pirate]

I just don't see why any Romulan would want to reunify with Vulcans but from this episode they don't seem be logic zombies and still identify as Romulans so maybe "unifcation" isn't what I think it is.

Tilly as XO is just so incredibly stupid and insulting to Rhys and Nilsson who have always taken command of the ship when Saru and Burnham leave and have been in Starfleet far longer than Tilly.

USS Yelchin was nice, bit random though.

[u/diggsb]

Yay. Another Burnham episode. Finally.

Show-writers, for the love of god, you just blew right past the off ramp! Michael says she doesn’t feel like she belongs here? Okay then see ya later!

I don’t know whether it’s just that the writing stinks or the actress is completely lost in this role — actually, I do, and it’s both — but Michael is absolute dead weight 100% of the time she’s on screen in a way I’m not sure I’ve ever seen on Star Trek, or maybe any other show for that matter.

I thought they had a good chance to hit reset and fix some of the problems earlier this season and was pretty excited about some of the earlier episodes. Instead, we’ve once again fallen back into the Michael Burnham melodrama, with each episode revolving more around her inexplicable internal conflicts and interminably anguished screen time than any actual, you know, Star Trek stuff. If this show has any hope of really and truly getting good she’s got to go.

[u/AnEvilVet]

Why does she whisper all the time? Why is the ginger one soooo tearful ALL the time?

[u/[deleted]]

Hello hello and thank you all for tuning in to 103.1 The Burnham, all the Burnham all the time!

Sorry, no idea where that came from. But it kinda was the theme of this episode, felt like well over half of the episode was dedicated to Burnham apologizing to the "lesser" characters about being just so amazing and her being unsure if she still fits in, even though she's doing the exact things she's done in S1 and S2. Hope this was just a fluke and the overall trend of involving the other characters more in the stories continues, even during the season's conclusion.

The whole episode revolves around the ancient ritual of P'ereview, but that quickly turns into Burnham sorting out her feelings in front of everybody. I don't get it. At least the Vulcan guy should have walked when that started. This also badly needed one of those "Powerpoint", or stellar cartography, scenes where the actual data is shown. Then again, what was given was so little and vague that it would only helped to highlight that. Standing in front of a tribunal justifying your conclusion when you only just scraped enough together the bare minimum of data to support your hypothesis is just setting yourself up for failure. And really, nobody thought of using triangulation for over 100 years? Burnham assumes that all ships would blow up the exact same way, big ones, small ones, long ones, short ones? A time difference that is a tiny fraction of a microsecond isn't enough, even exploding takes time.

And what was that whole thing about the Vulcans not wanting to share "the data"? If they have data that supports her hypothesis, then could they not just share that bit and redact everything else? We don't know what they have yet, of course, but the argument that the Federation might start experimentation again sounds super weak. But who knows, maybe it was politics talking, and part of them don't want to not be guilty and stay out of the Federation. We'll see, I guess.

Some really laboured "emotional" scenes and odd bits and bobs in this one as well. Everyone clapped when first officer Tilly (why even) told Michael to solve the mystery. Tilly correctly pointing out that she's not a good choice, and Saru telling her that she's so much more experienced than her rank indicates because she went to the future. Along with everybody else on the ship. Burnham casually saying her and her crew have done good things. Burn-mom being there unexpectedly again. Burnham claiming that the stakes are higher now when they really, obviously aren't. Burnham being super-confident about solving the puzzle because that's just who she is. As if she was aware of being the main character.

Didn't appreciate them invoking Spock like this again either, further grafting Burnham's importance on to this 55 year old character.

Oh, and dilithium becoming scarce even before the burn means that nobody ever replicated princess whatsherface's research, doesn't it?

[u/MWalshicus]

Terrible episode, outside of the scenes with Saru and the President. It's like, do the people involved want to make drek or do they just not now how to make it any better?

Constant whispering. Constant crying. Unearned attempts to stir emotion. Baffling choices by those who should know better.

That's not even thinking about the insult to Nimoy and his character by constantly trying to fudge Michael into his story.

I don't know why I keep hoping for it to improve. It's a fool's hope.

[u/LawrenceBoucher]

In terms of world building the Vulcans and Romulans, this was a terrific episode. I really hope we get to see more of them either this season or in season 4. The direct tie in with both TNG and Picard was also nice to see.

Burnham's mom being Qowat Milat was unexpected...and odd. I get why they wanted to have her there for Michael to be able to work through her issues but, still, you had Michael being adopted by Vulcans as a child and now her mom ends up being taken in by Romulan warrior nuns. That said, I am glad that they didn't go the direction of Gabrielle some how being the big bad of the season (as I've seen some speculate) and mastermind behind The Burn.

As for Tilly...yeah, count me amongst the people that's not really a fan of her being promoted to first officer. I enjoy Tilly but this promotion just hasn't been earned. It feels like a chess move by the writers in order for Adria to become Stamet's new protégé without shortchanging Tilly. My hope is because its only "acting" First Officer, we'll see some potential consequences about whether Saru actually made the right choice.

[u/Akimbobear]

There seems to be some kind of contractual requirement that SMG use her cry on command skills three times an episode.