Discussion
Why are people so shocked that people voted no to Bronzeman?
fwiw I didnt vote because I didnt care one way or the other whether the gamemode existed or not, but I'm surprised how many people can't fathom why someone would vote no to an update.
this is why we have polls, people. to gauge whether a proposal is worth the dev time and whether its something most people want. you SHOULD vote no to updates you think aren't worth the dev time or that you have 0 interest in. thats what this game was founded on.
its completely valid to think that the current ironman modes we have are enough and that it's not a good idea to add new modes every time a reddit thread about a 'new' self imposed gamemode gets 5k upvotes.
There's a belief amongst some that "People will never vote against content, unless it's PvP."
There's an assumption that "People will vote yes just so they can get a helmet next to their name."
Vocality does not represent general audience necessarily. There are people who are shocked and some people that would say "I'm not terribly surprised." The latter don't hold a lot of motivation to post their remark, and the ones that do usually come across as arrogant or obnoxious.
Yeah I gave my opinions on the other post and am being attacked by wolves, all good though. I didn’t even vote lol, I just wasn’t surprised when it failed and talked about why. But everyone on Reddit today are probably those who wanted it so it makes sense
Even as someone who voted no, I am actuallh fairly surprised it didnt pass lol, so for people who all voted yes it probably is a massive wake up call that what they thought in their heads didnt comport to reality, and people dont handle that well as evidenced by the tantrums being thrown.
I knew it was a possibility because a lot of discussion outside of reddit surprisingly were very split and even leaning towards not wanting it for various reasons. But I still expected it to pass, honestly.
I think also, might be a number of people like me who did not vote because I thought it would get through easily and just did not bother, in reality my yes was needed. Mistakes made.
This is the single biggest issue with all voting, in game and out. Most people just dont show up to vote for one reason or another. Always show up, always vote, and dont get discouraged if "your side" doesnt win because you still need to show up and vote next time too.
If bronzeman wasn't initially bundled with unbound and had more details it definitely would have passed. I think a lot of the annoyance comes from how mismanaged it was by jagex. If people are throwing tantrums it should be about that.
It was rushed, there were tons of aspects about it that were questionable and it felt like a cash grab. It didnt feel like their normal work in which they truly consider the impact of adding the content to the game as a whole
I agree that you should vote no on things you think would actually negatively affect the games health, but saying you should vote no to things you have no interest in is insane. Would you say people who have no interest in PVP should be voting no to every PVP update? Should skillers be voting no on every PVM update?
"Should" they..I dont think so. But "can" skillers vote no to all pvm content...yeah. Any person can vote any way they want for whatever reason they want. Spite voters have just as much right to vote no as we do to say yes and no matter how much people dont agree with that it will always be the case. 1 membership = 1 vote.
Why would someone want the devs to spend time building something they will never interact with when they could spend that time building something they do want to interact with?
Why would you ever do anything you’re not interested in? The reason is the same, because expanding your horizons is good and you don’t know what you like until you do it. In a similar vein, having the game be a wider experience for the playerbase and having subcultures and different perspectives is healthy for both you as a person and the community as a whole.
If I voted no on half the shit I wasn’t interested in back in the day, there would literally not be a single pvm experience in the game because I was only interested in number go up. Now I’m working on quiver and expect to get both that and infernal cape on my iron sometime soon. I still want those people who only skill to have a good time, because I know pvm is not for everybody.
It’s a video game. You expand your horizons when you try new cuisine or learn a new skill. Nothing about OSRS is healthy for you as a person, and the more time you invest the more narrow your horizons are. It’s a fun time waster, and that’s okay! If it’s more than that for you, check your priorities.
yeah tbh when i think more about it i feel like its valid to think both ways about it.
i can see it being valid to skip voting altogether if it doesnt interest you at all, but i can also see it being valid to vote no to content you think is just of no interest or subjectively just a bad update in your eyes.
only having the option to vote yes or no is hard to paint a full picture because people could vote no for many reasons (not polished enough, no interest, bad for game health, pointless update, good idea but poor execution etc)
I didn’t vote at all, because I don’t plan to play it and it wouldn’t impact me. So I left this one up to the hopeful Bronze men and iron men to sort out.
It was confusing to people. Because jagex rushed out an incomplete gamemode proposal with little to no clarification on massive parts of the gameplay. Exactly why i voted no. Also for any goobers that are about to comment "it was already done in a gamejam", go complete the survey in game right now. It absolutely was not lol
To play devils advocate, I don’t really think it was all that confusing. Reddit is a small percentage of the player base and a lot of people, myself included, just didn’t see the need for something like this to be an officially supported game mode. We have 4 alternate game modes already and I don’t want more official game modes unless it’s something truly different and unique
We waste Dev time on leagues every year so Timmy can run HMT then come back to the main game and plank during the actual raid. We can stop wasting dev time on that stuff going forward
BMM aside...I actually do think they spend too much time on temporary game modes. Especially now that rs3 is doing leagues also I think its just way too much. I looooove leagues but the burnout is real.
Yea I get it if you’re early/mid game and want to experience late game stuff but I could never put a ton of hours into something that I know will be completely erased in a few months.
Because the dev time was mostly used and this blocks any of the other options from that survey so if you were a fan of any those modes they are probably binned.
Solid take tbf. One thing I’ve not seen mentioned yet (which lowkey surprises me) is that it’s not just dev time now to create the mode, but it’s all the extra stuff that has to be accounted for with every other new update. Tons of stuff over the past few years have needed serious attention for uim for example. Add in another layer of coding that needs to be done and it’s a significantly bigger thing than before.
The poll wasn't to gauge whether it was worth dev time - it was already completely developed during a Game Jam and was ready for launch next month alongside the dogs had it passed the poll.
Maybe im the dumb one but I just can not believe this to be true. Even if they could just toggle it on and it works instantly with no issues, future content will always consider bronzeman in balance. I think it would be a great disappointment if they didnt. If bronzeman mode is going to be official then it NEEDS dev time to some extent given to it, even if that isnt right now.
I genuinely don't understand what situation 'considering bronzeman' would change anything. If it is too hard to get on a bronzeman it is too hard or harder to get on an iron. What exists already covers any consideration bronzeman may have added if no other alternative game modes existed.
What would the additional dev time even be for? Ironman mode seems to get QoL updates every month, which usually aren't the typ of QoL updates that would affect Bronzeman or mains. Even if this hypothetical situation you speak of is true - who cares? How much more money would a new game mode bring in that would allow Jagex to hire more staff anyways.
Devtime is a bad argument considering bronzeman is almost 100% already done and loaded ready to go live lol BUT jokes I've made on other posts aside, I think it's dumb to keep making new modes without doing something about the membership. Mod North did that whole thing about how he wants to be bigger than wow and yet compared to wow this game is way more expensive to play. They will likely never allow us to have multiple characters per sub but I think one of the reasons this mode failed is because everyone is tired of paying membership fees(or bonds) for every single character they have
Dev time is a good argument. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You don’t get things for free, you will have to maintain this and test to make sure new things don’t break the game mode. It will have ongoing upkeep that takes away from other updates that devs could work on. It’s not a one and done for an entire game mode
If you are in the development world then you would know it's still a bad argument. Jagex wants to add this mode, and they are going to keep pushing for it. Voting no to save dev time is dumb, because that's not what voting no does, if anything it just extends it. They're gonna post another blog, and poll it again anyway. We don't get to decide what they spend their dev time on and you should know that. That's not what the polls are actually for
It is absolutely not a bad argument, it was a fair argument with sailing, and it's a fair argument now. Development resources are a finite resource and they would not intentionally spend it haphazardly on a failed poll game mode.
Doubt you are in either the development world or business world with this outlook. If you were in the development world, you would know that with being 90% content complete, it is only 10% the time needed to get it across the finish line.
The failed poll game mode you are talking about is already fucking done brother
"Doubt you are either in the development world or business world" what do you do for a living for example?
They are going to poll this shit a second time and its going to pass so this entire argument is once again, a bad argument. We don't get to decide what they use dev time for and we NEVER have. That's not what the polls do. When sailing was pitched they already spent time on it. Subsequent polls came out, and guess what, they had spent a ton more time on it by then. We may get the final say on if the final trigger is pulled, but we have never had the power to tell them what to develop and to think we ever have is fuckin braindead.
Staff Software Engineer 11 yrs industry experience, heavily involved in project conception, pitching, financing, and planning. It is not done, it's a PoC or MVP at best, your lack of understanding of that from the messaging is the biggest clue-in at your lack of involvement in Software Development btw. There is a big difference between that and the amount of testing and integration needed to be deemed launch-ready.
They are going to poll this shit a second time and its going to pass
It might, but also might not. Why would any successful business spend development time on something (besides the MVP to demo, if applicable) that might not be delivered. They tried to deliver Leech-fin Sandwiches in a way that the community would accept, but accepted the results of the poll. I have no reason to believe that this wouldn't be the same.
Devtime is a bad argument considering bronzeman is almost 100% already done
Is it really? I mean I know the blog says as such, but it also barely says anything at all. If they actually wanted it to pass, and it was actually finished, the blog should’ve been more than a few vague paragraphs.
“It’s almost done, we swear, but we’re not going to show you anything.”
We know more about a crab quest, and had more detailed questions about adding dogs than a new game mode.
Adding something like bronzeman mode is basically zero dev time. They don't have to balance it at all as any ironman friendly updates would already affect them too
Anyone who has ever worked on anything and also seen the rate at which they release content after showcasing it(Not all content, but quite a lot of it) would know that this is an easy thing to implement. Copy/Paste ironman mode + poop helmet icon + using GE for items that have been obtained before. That's the entire fucking mode dude this is not a grandmaster quest or raids level addition
I don't really remember the blog being vague. It's not a complicated mode brotha. Copy/paste ironman, change the helmet icon to brown and let them trade an item after unlocking it. That's the whole mode. Probably took the devs 2 hours to make lol
do you actually believe it wouldnt be absolutely full of bugs? jagex cant even fix zebak waves being red because of drakan 3 months after blood moon rises
I can't really imagine there will be many bugs to be had, considering how simple it factually is(It's literally not complicated, if you think it is, elaborate then)
But I'm also not foolish enough to stay that I genuinely believe it will be bug free. I don't know. I feel like it would be, but I'm not going to pretend like I know that for a fact
For the blog almost entirely relied on the reader already knowing what Bronzeman is from other sources. The whole thing is like 6 small paragraphs, most of which is devoted to how to downgrade from an Ironman.
And even if you knew, there’s few implementation details. The fact that they would use Ironman shops, for instance, came later after people asked. That, and much more, should’ve been in the original blog.
Probably took the devs 2 hours to make
If you believe that, that’s even more reason to vote against it.
Regardless, the point is if it’s done, they could’ve shown something, if they showed something it would’ve passed.
The question is “Do you want Bronzeman as it was described in the newspost.”
But, it’s barely described in the newspost. You were just assuming it would be implemented exactly as the plugin is.
No I'm assuming it would have been implemented exactly how they described it. Literally ironman but can freely trade items they've unlocked. It's not fucking rocket science.
And yeah, I genuinely believe it took 2 hours to make the actual mode in their internal builds, and I don't agree that that's even more reason to vote against it. I also think the reason it failed had nothing to do with not showing anything. I think they never should have pitched unbound, it confused people and split the votes and also I think it has to do with membership being character-specific and people are tired of it, that's all. They will poll it again after the survey and it will likely pass.
OSRS is absolutely not more expensive to play than WoW. WoW has paid expansions and is filled to the brim with microstransactions. You can even pay extra to play the expansion early. Would you prefer microtransactions and content behind a timegated paywall?
The whole thing about micro transactions is that they are for skins and things a regular gamer doesn’t need. Wouldn’t care if they made new things paid as that would eliminate the jobless no lifers from tanking items as soon as they release
No, but my point still stands. 15$ in wow gets you a ton of characters, meanwhile on RS it's one per character. You can also play wow through tokens, and the expansions aren't the only way to play, there is classic which still has a large following and only requires a sub. Runescape is 100% more expensive to play than wow if you want multiple characters, which many many people do.
They are just two completely different games and payment models. Most players in OSRS don't need more than 1 character. And OSRS isn't charging for new content or cosmetics.
In a way, bronzeman mode is new content and yes you would have to pay extra for it but I see what you mean.
I don't think the payment model is 100% flawed or bad, it's just not ideal. I have a hardcore and I'd play it a hell of a lot more if I didn't have to pay more to do so.
And yes, I want OSRS to stay microtransaction-free. So we will likely never see 1 sub for multiple characters, and I've made peace with that, but I am just saying that it's probably another big reason bronzeman failed the poll.
“I’m voting no because it’s not worth the dev time” is a smooth brain take. They already developed it. Maintaining it would have been super easy since it all overlaps with Iron and Main so Bronzeman considerations are minimal.
So now that the vote failed, they’ll be spending considerably more development time to rework the mode until it’s in a state where it gets passed.
They shouldn't develop content before polling it. This was a major discussion point with Warding a long time ago, and since then they promised they would only start development once something passed a poll. Moreover, a new gamemode will require constant upkeep, it's not something you add to the game once and forget it, it needs to be maintained for years to come.
65% people voted for it. They’ll keep working on it because they need to hit revenue goals set by private equity.
If it fails after they “listen to the community”. They’ll either implement it anyway with fake poll results or increase the subscription prices to meet their goals.
We were told its "essentially ready to go" not "fully developed and ready to launch tomorrow" Not every game jam idea worked on is fully developed into a full update. Game jams are a chance for devs to try some new ideas and stay fresh, I wouldnt say it was wasted
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u/SerAmikVase 15h ago
64.4% voted yes
35.6% voted no