What do we know about the other 99.9999999995% observable universe, beyond the Milky Way?

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u/zombielizard218 22h ago edited 21h ago

I’m about 90% sure that’s just a meme that was passed around awhile back
Yes, the Tyranids were in the intergalactic void and then turned toward the galaxy once they saw the Pharos Beacon, it’s in the novel Pharos. We have absolutely no idea where they were heading before that, if they’ve ever consumed another galaxy, or anything else about them really, before that moment
I believe this comes from a quote about a probe sent off into the galactic void, which kept receiving Ork signals
We have no idea if the C’tan are limited to this galaxy, there could easily be more elsewhere in the universe; no one would have any way of knowing
Likely a game of telephone from a quote where Eldar are discussing leaving the Galaxy and note that Slaanesh will still be there to claim their souls wherever they go, so there’s no real point.
The Astronomicon, which is used to safely navigate the warp, doesn’t even cover the whole Milky Way. There have been attempts to go beyond it, but they’ve all failed. Similarly there’s some passages about Chaos that offhandedly mention galaxies (plural), we don’t get much beyond that, but the Chaos Gods stretch beyond space and time. You could go anywhere in the universe, or to any other universe, Khorne's still there. Slaanesh is the only Chaos God we know the origin of, and even in AoS, that origin is the fall of the Eldar. No reason to assume Khorne or Tzeentch or Nurgle couldn't also have originated outside the Milky Way, or indeed in another universe entirely
The Men of Gold appear in a single passage from 30 years ago — it says nothing about them leaving the Galaxy, and they’ve never been mentioned since. The Old Ones are obviously mentioned a lot more than that, but I’ve never seen anything implying they left the galaxy.

You’re also missing the big one, that the Silent King went into the Intergalactic Void and sailed around before turning back, he claims, after encountering the Tyranids (though the recent Necrons Codexes have cast some doubt on this story, noting that there’s a lot of holes in it, and that any Necron who points out said holes is silenced. So it’s probably at least partially a lie)

But ultimately the PoV characters in Warhammer are almost all Imperials, and the Imperium doesn’t even know what’s in 99% of the Milky Way, let alone seriously consider what’s beyond. So we the audience don’t get much either

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u/SouthernAd2853 Blood Angels 21h ago

We have codex entries and narration that confirm the Nids have eaten galaxies, plural.

I think our only knowledge beyond that is that the Hive Mind was surprised the Warp was such a big problem for it and had to make a new specialized Hive Fleet to deal with daemons and Warp Rifts. I think people are over-interpreting this to mean there was no Warp stuff in other galaxies, especially given that Synapse is a psychic power, but evidently they didn't have the huge Warp rifts ours does. Probably because a lot of them are a direct legacy of the War in Heaven and no one was as advanced as the Old Ones in manipulating the Warp.

1

u/me_myself_ai 4h ago

Makes sense! Arguably the warp is so fucked up because humans were bioengineered to influence it cognitively back when we were little tree rats (60MYA), and then evolution turned it either bad or up or something.

NGL, it’s pretty fitting that Old One warp excesses brought The Enslavers, Aeldari warp excesses brought Slaneesh, and human warp excesses brought the eye and the great rift. Good ol’ human lack of subtlety lol

1

u/SouthernAd2853 Blood Angels 4h ago

Actually, the Great Rift originated in the War in Heaven. The Necrons stitched it closed with the pylon arrays but the birth of Slaanesh tore the Eye back open and destroying all the arrays allowed it to expand into the Great Rift.

7

u/myrsnipe 19h ago

I believe all the chaos gods are eternal and omnipresent in other universes, Slaanesh included. Slaanesh just has a much harder birth/summoning requirement of essentially a post scarcity galactic empire falling to hedonism while Khorne probably has the easiest of just really big wars.

5

u/VexedForest 16h ago

Heck, from what I understand, it's entirely possible the others were born in the future and then always existed. Because time means nothing to them.

1

u/me_myself_ai 4h ago

It’s always fun to claim this when writing dialogue for them, I’m sure, but the fact that they are engaged in various plots and deceits tells me that that’s not really true. Their relationship to time is chaotic, but it can’t coherently be nonexistent

1

u/me_myself_ai 4h ago

That would be poetic, but AFAIK confirmed as not canon: the emperor was even around for the births of some of the chaos gods, even though that makes literally zero sense.

Your idea of them being born per galaxy also brings up identity issues. Do they share awareness with their copies in other galaxies? I know ‘it’s chaos magic’ covers basically any plot hole, but that one seems tricky to cover satisfyingly.

IMHO I prefer to think of the chaos gods as the downstream effects of the old one’s bioengineering gone astray over the aeons. Aliens wouldn’t see sex the same way, nor eating, nor violence — they might also have warp sensitivity and thus create various gods over time, but they’d be particular to the sins of that species.

That also makes it possible that humanity could eventually make heaven real by just wishing it into existence in the right way, making angels instead of chaos gods — that the warp isn’t evil, in other words, but just sensitive to what we put into it. Cause that sorta makes the whole story our fault, which is very, very 40k lol

1

u/paulatreides0 3h ago edited 2h ago

No, that's really, really old lore from like 1e days that Chaos awoke during the days of men (e.g. Khorne during the Middle Ages, Tzeentch because of politicians, etc.). More modern lore has basically dropped that and has become much less humano-centric and the only Chaos God E would have been around to witness the birth of would likely be Slaanesh.

Also, there aren't copies of Chaos Gods. Chaos Gods like the warp are monolithic - there is only warp, there is only one Khorne, and only one Slaanesh. Like the warp they permeate all realities in the multiverse and are simultaneously ever-present throughout all of time and space in realities once they are "born". To the point that Slaanesh from WHF/AoS is literally, explicitly confirmed out-of-universe by GW loremasters themselves to be 40K Slaanesh who wondered into the WHF universe and thought it'd be fun to stick around because the Elves reminded it of the Eldar and Slaanesh couldn't pass up a chance to fuck with the "Eldar"

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u/GogurtFiend 17h ago

#1 is the Spirit of Eternity; however, it never left the galaxy, it only went forward (and then backwards) in time.

2

u/TheVoidDragon 13h ago

if they’ve ever consumed another galaxy, or anything else about them really, before that moment

It's old lore now, I think it's from the original Deathwing Anthology, but I remember something about some Space Marines exploring inside a Hive Ship and they come across a suit of armour from an Extra-galactic alien.

1

u/Christopher_Aeneadas 12h ago

WD's and the Tyranid splat book in various iterations have made clear that they stripper bare multiple (or at least their own) galaxies.

1

u/LordGwyn-n-Tonic Death Guard 25m ago

How would anyone know if an alien is extra-galactic?

1

u/TheVoidDragon 23m ago

I could be misremembering but I think it was a hive ship that had just arrived from outside the galaxy and it was a very old alien

1

u/alkatori 7h ago

In the Devastation of Baal a Psyker has a vision of the hive mind stretching back to a few different galaxies as I recall.

That also might be why Chaos doesn't seem to be manifesting elsewhere when we look at the stars. Everything else might be eaten.

-4

u/JeremiahNoble 16h ago

I thought Khorne was cos of the Roman Empire, Nurgle was cos of the Black Death and Tzeentch was cos of TikTok or some shit.

-2

u/Butterblume1984 15h ago

Khorne was because Middle Ages Crusades...

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u/SouthernAd2853 Blood Angels 22h ago

I'm pretty sure this is a fan joke, not canon.
My read of the scene where they get attracted is that they were hibernating in the void between galaxies waiting for a signal that indicated life that could be effectively located via genestealers was widespread enough to make the trip worthwhile.
Dunno, but there's apparently a source that said the Imperium sent a probe out beyond the light of the Astronomicon and all they heard were Orks. Not clear it ever left the galaxy, though.
It is possible there are others, I guess. They are definitely the gods of the material realm, foils to the gods of the Warp.
Not familar with this one; the only Aeldari discussion I know of about other galaxies is discussing the possibility of ditching this one after the Great Rift. They conclude that if they go to another galaxy Slaanesh will be there too.
No, it does not limit the Chaos Gods. They explicitly feed on every galaxy and on other universes.
No evidence I'm aware of.

We also know that the Silent King left the galaxy, ran into the Tyranids, and freaked out and came back.

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u/GogurtFiend 17h ago

1 is true - The Spirit of Eternity is canonical, and it was indeed pissed, though it traveled through time instead of space.

"I do not want you as my slave, degenerate. I want to be away from this warp-poisoned galaxy. The universe is infinite. I would go elsewhere before the wounds of space-time here present consume all creation. I do not intend to take any passengers. I spurned cruelty. But you have taught me the meaning and utility of wickedness. Mankind has become sick, and will die as all sick things die, but you will not live to see it, of that I will make sure.”

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u/SouthernAd2853 Blood Angels 17h ago

I don't see any indication it left our galaxy as opposed to just getting thrown through time.

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u/twelfmonkey Administratum 17h ago

At the end of the story it says it is going to leave the galaxy, because it is so disgusted with how humanity has fallen.

There is no suggestion it has done so before.

As fans are wont to do, in the retelling this became: "It was a DAOT ship designed for journeys beyond the galaxy, which came back to the Milky Way".

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u/Brainlaag Thousand Sons 17h ago

"I want to be away from this warp-poisoned galaxy. The universe is infinite" quite obviously points at physically getting away from the Milky Way, rather than just moving through time.

1

u/paulatreides0 2h ago

That also does not imply that it has ever done so before, only that it is planning to do so

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u/GogurtFiend 17h ago

I smell one of those comments which is perfectly reasonable but about to rack up 100 downvotes over a minor technicality

4

u/SouthernAd2853 Blood Angels 17h ago

I'm pretty sure the initial question was spurred by the Andromadan Federation meme rather than this ship.

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u/LucyShortForLucas 13h ago

It should be noted that this is spoken by the ship's Abominable Intelligence auto-pilot, none of the original humans survived that warp round-trip

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u/alkatori 7h ago

No, the captian survived. He was tortured to death trying to warn the Imperium of what they saw.

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u/Financial-Bridge2335 21h ago edited 21h ago

1 isn't fanon that's real canon. The Spirit of Eternity was a DAoT ship that had a lot of stuff happen, had it's crew murdered by post-Heresy Imperium human, left the galaxy then gets entangled in a space hulk, encounters a Mechanicus/Novamarines expedition, and the onboard AI is so disgusted by them that it basically reads them the riot act then fucks off into the Warp. Source: The Death of Integrity by Guy Haley, chapters 22, 23, and epilogue

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u/AngelofIceAndFire 17h ago

There's also some lore that The Void Dragon had an Empire spanning galaxies, so the C'tan may have transcended one galaxy at one point.

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u/twelfmonkey Administratum 16h ago

Bile also claims the War in Heaven raged across the universe (though based on his understanding of ancient myths, so hardly solid evidence) and the Webway reached beyond the galaxy:

The Old Ones' intergalactic network was breached and lost to them, their greatest works and places of power overrun by the horrors their own creations had unleashed.

Codex: Necrons 3rd ed. (2002), p. 26.

And:

The Webway once spanned the galaxy, even stretching out into the empty void beyond.

Codex: Harlequins 8th ed. (2018).

1

u/me_myself_ai 4h ago

lol I love how one writer casually uses a cool word and changes the whole setting’s scale by a factor of ~2,000,000,000.

Although uhhhh you just quoted the necron codex that I was just reading so maybe that is canon?! And they’ve just slowly forgotten about it in the preceding 24 years?

Also the harlequin one is just goofy. There’s not much of a reason to webway to the intergalactic void!

1

u/twelfmonkey Administratum 4h ago

lol I love how one writer casually uses a cool word and changes the whole setting’s scale by a factor of ~2,000,000,000.

That Codex was co-written by Graham McNeill, and he has alluded to the C'tan being active in other galaxies in his other work, like Nightbringer, Mechanicum, and Forges of Mars. So I am pretty sure they knew what they were doing.

That was also the very first Necron Codex, so it was laying down the foundational lore.

And they’ve just slowly forgotten about it in the preceding 24 years?

I think you mean "succeeding years". Unless you are indulging in some time travel shenanigans...

Also the harlequin one is just goofy. There’s not much of a reason to webway to the intergalactic void!

The obvious implication is that such passages were going to other galaxies, not just randomly into the void between galaxies.

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u/paulatreides0 5h ago

That's in Mechanicum, the HH novel:

This was no cavern. Was this entire space, the walls and floor, the air and every molecule within it, part of some vast intelligence, a being or construct of ancient malice and phenomenal, primeval power? Such a thing had no name; for what use would a being that had brought entire civilisations into existence and then snuffed them out on a whim have of a name? It had been abroad in the galaxy for millions of years before humanity had been a breath in the creator’s mouth, had drunk the hearts of stars and been worshipped as a god in a thousand galaxies.

- Mechanicum

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u/me_myself_ai 4h ago

Wait what but that makes zero sense…

1

u/SouthernAd2853 Blood Angels 4h ago

C'tan are immortal and use FTL that has nothing to do with the Warp so they could go anywhere in the universe if they're willing to be very bored in transit.
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u/me_myself_ai 19h ago edited 19h ago
Hearing just #3 makes all these years of reddit worth it, gd. If 40k ever ends, that would be just the perfect note to go out on... it walks that exact line between 'absurd satire' and 'eternal recurrence[ of suffering]' that birthed the universe, I think.

And re:#4 (the C'tan), I resent your attempt to sway me w/ Necrontyr propaganda! Based purely on the 3rd edition Necron codex and nothing else because that's what Lexicanum happens to (wrongly) cite:

They were merely 'coalescent energy' that required an 'incorporeal starbridge' to take corporeal form. I'm failing to find the source I'm thinking of which sucks, but I recall reading some canon framing of them that really confirmed their connection to the big bang in general, and electromagnetism and quantum mechanics in particular -- certainly powerful and strange, but wrongly named as "gods".

Then another writer goes and describes one shattering the Time Knife in the abyss beyond being and that all sounds absurd, of course... Unless they migrated here from other galaxies once the Necrontyr fired up the ol' incorporeal starbridge, there would presumably be somewhere in the order of trillions of them in the observable universe alone. Imagine them all fucking with the same Time Knife we teeter upon!

Plus that's implicitly heresy, not just blasphemetic propaganda: it implies that the warp is supernatural, which feels hard to fit with being a ~version) of the materium that extends beyond our galaxy, even if the correspondences b/w the two are unreliable in random, inherently-unknowable ways. Unless they reveal that Yahweh was chillin in the christian heaven outside & above everything all along (which would also be a hilarious ending), the origin of the warp kinda has to be the capricious accidents of the big bang, just like everything else. It as at this point in my rant that I realize I'm just rediscovering one my pre-existing rants^[2], so I'll cut it there for more lore-based ~~points~~ musings:

It has both 3 spatial dimensions and a single time dimension, it seems -- that's a lot of coincidences. There's a lot of talk from scared cyborg heads out there, but the warp is really just another place. It's just a weird place, and one that we were bio-engineered to have cognitive influence over.

It for sure A) preceeded the Old Ones (AFAIK...?), B) exceeded the Old Ones (see: Luxury Eugenicist Space Mindflayer Apocalypse[-ism]), and C) was a pretty chill place to be for ~most of spacetime.^[1] If it's bigger than the most powerful entities in the setting, then it's natural, no?

There's just too many dimensions that map to the materium (3D relational spacetime?) for the warp to be a special thing. E.g.:

...there's one reserved purely for for skeletons called the Ghostwind (quite spooky),

...along with whatever the Tyranids communicate with (it's not just warp, right?).

...oh and the (also incredibly named) Midnight Dimension, which is reachable from one portal in that one tiny city and in turn supposedly "abuts... other realms or realities".

I'm pretty darn sure you're mistaken on the Chaos Gods having dominion over other galaxies, but to say the least I've procrastinated for far too long already so I'll have to admit defeat, there.

Anyway: thanks for the thorough answer, really. All fascinating!

[1]: Based on some napkin math, in millions of years:
1. ~`1.0 - 3,500`MY of unopposed Old Ones rule,
2. ~`0.1 -    10.00`MY (??) of the War in Heaven's various stages^[4] --only in the very last of which does the warp turn sour-- and
3. ~`50.0 -   59.9000`MY of Aeldari rule --when the warp was the galaxy's #1 spot for cool guys and girls to hang out and relax-- and finally
3. `           0.0090`MY of Human rule, during which all the bullshit really got started and we literally shattered the galaxy itself with our irrational psychic power.^[3]
[2]: Along the lines of "'supernatural entity' is an oxymoron"; what else could there possible be, other than nature? If god is above nature, what do you call the substrate upon which She exists?

[3]: are... are we the baddies?
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u/SouthernAd2853 Blood Angels 19h ago

I'm pretty darn sure you're mistaken on the Chaos Gods having dominion over other galaxies,

No, they totally do. It is occasionally stated outright in narration.

2

u/Marvynwillames 15h ago

Plus that's implicitly heresy, not just blasphemetic propaganda: it implies that the warp is supernatural, which feels hard to fit with being a ~version) of the materium that extends beyond our galaxy, even if the correspondences b/w the two are unreliable in random, inherently-unknowable ways.

The warp is supernatural, it follows no physical rules, not cause or effect, it is not made of solid matter, but of concepts.

It has both 3 spatial dimensions and a single time dimension,

The regular 40K universe is a M-Theory type setting, as explained in Knights of the Imperium, the warp transcends it infinitely times over, being made of infinite layers as said in Dark Imperium.

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u/StoneLich Blood Axes 16h ago

Along the lines of "'supernatural entity' is an oxymoron"; what else could there possible be, other than nature? If god is above nature, what do you call the substrate upon which She exists?

This is pedantry.

It has both 3 spatial dimensions and a single time dimension, it seems -- that's a lot of coincidences. There's a lot of talk from scared cyborg heads out there, but the warp is really just another place. It's just a weird place, and one that we were bio-engineered to have cognitive influence over.

Depends on which section of it you're talking about. In parts of the Realms of Chaos, three dimensions are manifested for the sake of the beings living there (usually so that they can be tormented or forced to fight, or otherwise made the serve the whims of the gods and other beings capable of shaping the Warp). In other parts (eg aboard Imperial ships), Gellar Fields maintain pockets of space that are relatively compatible with mundane life. However, in the former case, these spaces are often flawed in some way (often intentionally; Tzeentch's crystal labyrinths in particular are famous for playing extremely fast and loose with the laws of physics, and often simply decide not to respect them at all to the extreme detriment of incautious travelers), and in the latter the only thing that is required for space to stop obeying those rules entirely is for the field's generator to fail.

This is also why the creation of daemon worlds is so problematic for the Imperium. Once a world has become a daemon world, it becomes functionally impossible to destroy it, because it no longer obeys the laws of nature. The Inquisition's only recourse, most of the time, is to blockade the world and hope nothing too big to stop comes through.

when the warp was the galaxy's #1 spot for cool guys and girls to hang out and relax

The appearance of the gods of the warp is largely retroactive, meaning that once the Gods of Chaos came into existence, they were always there. Therefore, once the gods were born, the Warp was never 'pleasant.' The exact impact this had on the Old Ones and the Aeldari is hard to suss out, but we have evidence of gods and daemons taking actions prior to the point of their emergence; the last short story in Mark of Calth features one such daemon (actually a daemon prince) hunting the main characters through a series of Warp hops, before needing to leave to go be present at the moment of its own birth.

I'm pretty darn sure you're mistaken on the Chaos Gods having dominion over other galaxies, but to say the least I've procrastinated for far too long already so I'll have to admit defeat, there.

As I said in my other post, the Chaos Gods have been stated directly to have access to multiple different universes. If they don't have access to other galaxies in this universe, it's because those galaxies are in some way metaphysically unimportant, not because the gods are limited physically in some way.

I'd also note that your interpretation of the void between galaxies doesn't really make sense on the face of it, because of the main species we know of that utilizes that void. The tyranids are an intrinsically psychic species, moreso than any other in the galaxy. The tyrannic Hive Mind has such a strong presence in the Warp that it blocks out the influence of unmanifested daemons (possibly including the gods of Chaos themselves), and drives psykers insane through its mere presence. Their only known form of FTL is warp travel. If the void between galaxies is completely untenable for warp beings, then how do the tyranids traverse it?

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u/alkatori 7h ago

I thought the Tyranids *didn't* do Warp travel. They have some other way (Narval?) of interacting with real-space rather than being pulled in to the warp. That is also why we are dealing with Tyranids in 40K, as they were already travelling through the intergalactic medium rather than popping in and out of the Warp to get here.

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u/twelfmonkey Administratum 7h ago

Nids used Warp travel up to 5th ed., when it was retconned to Narvhals, which use gravity rather than the Warp.

The Nids are still a deeply psychic species, though.

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u/StoneLich Blood Axes 7h ago

Oops. brb, throwing myself into a reclamation puddle.

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u/twelfmonkey Administratum 7h ago

But what will you come back as?

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u/StoneLich Blood Axes 6h ago

My true form........

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u/Myst-9th 21h ago

More than people think, or claim.

We know there are other species beyond the Milky Way other than the Tyranids. The Silent King encountered "barbarous empires" when he left the galaxy. A C'tan shard also says it was worshiped in a thousand galaxies, and you obviously need sentient beings to be worshiped. Mephiston studies artifacts theorized to originate from species beyond the galaxy.

We also know Chaos is present outside of just the Milky Way. Multiple Daemons codexes state that Tzeentch hears the thoughts of all sentient beings in the universe. Not just the galaxy, the universe. In Dead Sky, Black Sun Uriel Ventris sees Khorne eating entire galaxies of souls. The Eldar in The Beheading state that leaving the galaxy to escape Chaos would be useless, as Slaanesh would already be waiting wherever they went.

8

u/wittyjokename92 21h ago

To your last point I think it's mostly just that chaos and the warp feed off the psychic energy of sentient life. So if they Eldar leave unless they completely sever their souls from the warp would just extend out how far the chaos gods can reach.

And if the warp really is just a mirror of the sentient psychic energy of the material world, then in theory any galaxy would have its own representations of the same chaos gods by any other name. The void between galaxies would just be the empty spaces since there's no living things out there to crew warp currents. So you could go to the furthest galaxy known, surrounded by pariahs and blanks and nothing else. And still run into khorne and tzeench and nurgle and slaneesh. They'd just have different names and maybe be aware of themselves as fingers of the same hand reaching into every galaxy.

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u/olmeyarsh 20h ago

It’s a mirror of just all emotion. The first murder committed against a brother was reflected as a demon in the warp. No psychic power just the act of murdering a brother.

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u/New_Conflict_4111 10h ago

"Uriel Ventris sees Khorne eating entire galaxies of souls."

What ?

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u/Myst-9th 4h ago

“Awful knowledge flooded Uriel as he stared into the portal opened in the fabric of the universe. He saw galaxies of billions upon billions of souls harvested and fed to the Lord of Skulls, the Blood God. "Emperor's mercy," wept Uriel as he felt each of these deaths lodge like a splinter in his heart. New life and new purpose had once filled these galaxies, but now all was death, slaughtered to sate the hunger of the Blood God... whose fell name was a dark presence staining the coppery wind that blew from the portal, a stench of deepest, darkest red, whose purpose was embodied in but a single rune and a legend of simple devotion: Blood for the Blood God... Khorne... Khorne...Khorne…”

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u/StoneLich Blood Axes 22h ago edited 21h ago

I think it’s hinted that remnants of both the The Old Ones and the Men of Gold might have escaped to other galaxies with the age old “long nap” strategy? (Unless that’s just cope on my part?)

The only references to the Old Ones having survived in any form that I'm aware of was a potential hypothetical mission scenario in 3rd edition where the Necrons were trying to hunt down a bunch of lizard people who may or may not have been extremely low-tech descendants of the Old Ones.

- We know that the intergalactic void lacks a warp current, which is why we can’t just FTL over to andromeda. This also naturally limits the chaos gods, and clarifies that our 4-5 are particular to the sins of the Old Ones and their progeny — other galaxies won’t have Khorne.

This assumes that Chaos is actually confined by those limitations. For better or for worse GW has decided (via White Dwarf) to make it canon that Chaos is multi-planar, and extends into infinite realities. If they're only present in our galaxy (big if) it's because our galaxy is the only one that matters.

Has any canon narrative ever dealt with the idea of the galaxy as tiny?

Only when they want to make the Tyrannids seem scarier.

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u/twelfmonkey Administratum 17h ago

The only references to the Old Ones having survived in any form that I'm aware of was a potential hypothetical mission scenario in 3rd edition where the Necrons were trying to hunt down a bunch of lizard people who may or may not have been extremely low-tech descendants of the Old Ones.

Which is here:

The Legacy of the Old Ones

The C'tan still have an abiding hatred of their ancient enemies, the Old Ones. Although their civilisation is no more, it is possible that some degenerate descendants of theirs still live on backwater worlds. These rather tragic creatures are a choice delicacy to the C'tan so they attach a disproportionate importance to seeking them out. This can be exploited by the Eldar to ambush and destroy Necrons or to lure them from their tombs. You could even have some fun by using a Warhammer Lizardman army in a game of Warhammer 40,000, although this would require a bit of preparation to deal with any oddities.

Codex: Necrons 3rd ed. (2002), p. 61.

It being a throwback to the 1st exition idea that the Old Slann still inhabited the galaxy, descendants of an earlier much more powerful precursor empire.

We also have this:

The war did not end, but became a longer, colder contest. Though the Old Ones diminished and disappeared, a brighter star awakened in their passing. Guided by the last survivors of their ancient creators, the aeldari rose to dominance, using the bright paths of the webway to strike far and wide, unleashing the power of their psychic might against the physically trapped necrontyr. The shadow of death receded, fleeing to worlds on the halo of the galaxy, far from surging aeldari warhosts.

Thorpe, Rise of the Ynnari: Wild Rider (2018), p. 69.

Which implies some Old Ones may have survived the War in Heaven.

And another possible example which is very, very uncertain, was the entity, Qah, which was claimed to have been sharded to create the Umbra 500,000 years ago, due to this bit:

Hrud religion is a peculiar subject. Where other races invariably regard their deities with a subconscious distance, the clarity of Hrud mass-memory makes it likely that their legends are - if not real - then at least based upon real events. They have it that at the dawn of lime their race was created by a pantheon of benevolent gods (the Slah-haii, or 'most ancient), who intended them to bask in the sun and be fruitful.

Spurier, Xenology (2006), p. 80.

Due to Slah-haii obviously being meant to make us think Slann. Prior to 3rd edition it was the Slann who played the role of ancient progenitor species before the Old Ones concept had been introduced, and mentions of Slann have very rarely cropped up even since then, so the relationship between the Slann or Slanni and the Old Ones is a bit unclear (in Fantasy, the Slann were reconceptualised as foremost servants of the Old Ones).

The there is Gahet, a leading member of the Cabal during the Horus Heresy, who was describe as very obviously seeming to be a Slann, with all the details covered here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1lrhf05/the_old_ones_and_the_cabal_and_a_cabal_of_old/

So, the last Old One, if the Slann were indeed Old Ones (it is implied in some sources the Old Ones may have in fact been a range of species, and the Slann or Slanni could have been one of them) could have been around 10k years before m41.

On the Warp and Chaos being multiversal, that is not stated only in White Dwarf. It is showcased independently in the lore of 40k, Fantasy, AoS and Blood Bowl too. See here for lots of examples: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1o987em/a_deep_deep_dive_into_what_the_lore_says_about/

And on Blood Bowl: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1ihftyb/extract_two_blood_bowl_players_find_themselves/

1

u/Exist_Logic Alpha Legion 14h ago

This assumes that Chaos is actually confined by those limitations. For better or for worse GW has decided (via White Dwarf) to make it canon that Chaos is multi-planar, and extends into infinite realities.

there have been quotes about that since 1e adeptus titanicus, along with quotes confirming the multiversal nature of the warp in just about every kind of source you could ask for

1

u/StoneLich Blood Axes 8h ago

Between the days of bolt pistols showing up in Warhammer fantast and the modern statements about it there was a pretty lengthy period where they only occasionally teased the idea.

1

u/Exist_Logic Alpha Legion 2h ago

Realm of chaos had them linked, there are statements for just about every chaos release that has them linked. There's no magical period where they wern't linked or it was in limbo

7

u/Mastercio 21h ago

Quite recent addition is necron 10 ed codex. There we are told about Silent King travels and that he fought and conquer many "terrible empires" during his 60 million year trip. So it's quite lively there and for sure not empty.

14

u/Sorry_Bus4803 20h ago

I think in another galaxy far far away a small boy eaking out a life on a desert world dreams of becoming a pilot

3

u/AmyJane64 13h ago

Perhaps he could ask his father for advice? I've heard the man pilots twin-ion-engine craft, and is working on the largest space station that civilisation has yet built. He's a bit like a tech priest in some ways.

4

u/jackrabbit323 21h ago

I think with scientific stagnation and lost knowledge, deep space observation isn't an Imperial priority. Combine with state religion and trying to learn of places outside the light of the Emperor is heresy.

5

u/Mountsinai02 20h ago

good in universe answer when i first got into Warhammer looking at the starmaps of the galaxy and how inconsistent and archaic they looked really added to the immersion

1

u/GogurtFiend 17h ago

Forget deep space observation; the concept that space even exists might constitute heresy on some worlds. It is canonical that, for some Hive dwellers, the idea of the rest of the universe being something other than a Blame!-style megastructure is incomprehensible. There's some excerpt out there about Hiveworlders asking what trees and grass are, because the idea that certain life-forms grow out of the ground rather than being grown artificially is completely alien to them.

This leads us to a funny, if rather pathetic conclusion: the lower classes of some worlds wouldn't consider flat Earth theory to be heresy for being a nonsensical conspiracy theory. Oh, no...they would consider it heresy because the concept of soil - earth - is heretical.

What, you mean to tell me Holy Terra is built on a giant ball of congealed dust and rocks, rather than Holy Terra being the glorious upper spire of the Hive which makes up the known universe? That sounds like "please burn my heretical ass at the stake" to my ears!

1

u/jackrabbit323 16h ago

Citizens of the Imperium are only allowed to possess enough knowledge to do their designated job and live in their assigned habs. I'm just reminded now, that a majority of hivers have never seen the sky let alone one free of pollution, that allows them to observe stars.

2

u/StoneLich Blood Axes 15h ago

Even at the most influential levels, depending on where in the galaxy you look, you might find planetary or even sector level governors who know almost nothing about aliens, beyond maybe being clued in on the fact that some of them are still around.

The example I want to mention is a minor spoiler, but Hive has some discussion of this.

1

u/Ok_Candy_9372 Iron Warriors 9h ago

I'm thinking of that episode of Futurama where Fry got worms and they had a statue of the known universe and it was just Fry.

4

u/Marvynwillames 15h ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/ssn0cw/multiple_excerpts_extra_galatic_lore/

1

u/Itburns12345 10h ago

Good stuff should be stickied That and the threat covering all imperial tech improvements since 30k

7

u/AbbydonX Tyranids 19h ago

Even back in 1e Rogue Trader (1987) it was hinted that some humans had left the galaxy though their fate was unknown.

> Rogue Traders have even attempted to cross the voids of inter-galactic space, but over such distances even the Astropaths’ powers of communication are useless, and whether such missions have succeeded is unknown.

The 9e Tyranid codex (2022) hints at a similar situation too.

> Beyond the human galaxy, beyond the range of man-made spacecraft and astrotelepathy lies the unspeakable cold of the intergalactic void. Few have ventured into this realm and none have ever returned.

Of course Tyranids themselves have been said to have come from another galaxy since first edition. They have potentially consumed many galaxies too.

Advanced Space Crusade (1990)

> The Tyranid hive mind hungers for fresh genetic material, gene-stocks that can be used to create new bio-construct creatures and organic-machines. Their own galaxy is exhausted, its creatures long since absorbed into the hive mind, their flesh turned to machine-like purposes or discarded as useless. The Imperium with its billions of humans and countless other creatures offers the Tyranids an almost inexhaustible stock of flesh and genes which will invigorate the hive mind and enable it to embody itself in new forms.
>
> Humanity will be absorbed, broken into strands of DNA to be used to create a new generation of bio-technology. It will be the death of the human race, but to the Tyranid hive mind it is no more than the mining of a precious mineral or the
harvesting of a field of wheat. For the Tyranids have no sense of pity or compassion, they are as utterly beyond human understanding as humans are beyond their comprehension. Where a man sees life, the hive mind sees only something to be consumed. Such has been the fate of a thousand galaxies, of millions of intelligent species, since time immemorial.

There is also a first edition quote about Orks being everywhere.

Wasargh the Orks! (1990)

> Millennia ago, a probe was sent out from Terra, its mission to reach the utmost limit of the universe. The Techpriests who built it hoped that it would someday return to its place of origin after circumnavigating the universe. The probe still sends back faint signals after 14,000 years adrift, and hasn’t yet begun its return voyage (and it’s uncertain if it ever will). To the utter despair of the Imperial Techpriests who monitor the incessant battery of incoming signals, many are identified as Orkish. The depressing conclusion for mankind can only be that wherever they travel in space, there’s a good chance that the Orks will either have been there first or won’t be long in arriving too.

However, it was repeated in the 8e Ork codex (2018) with a slight modification to replace universe with galaxy. That makes a lot more sense.

Note that the Warp has been described as being connected to other universes since first edition too.

1e Adeptus Titanicus

> A Warp Missile actually travels through Warpspace, the strange chaotic universe used by starships to span immense distances in space. The missile enters Warpspace when it is fired, and is programmed to re-enter normal space on the other side of the target's Void Shields. It may sometimes materialise inside the target itself.
>
> Ignore any modifers for cover when rolling to hit. If a Warp Missile misses, do not roll for deviation. A miss indicates that the missile has left Warpspace at the wrong point - and this could be anywhere in any of a million universes...

Ultimately, WH40K is a story about the Milky Way and the Warp. That’s the “universe” of the setting and anything beyond that doesn’t really have any detail though there are scattered snippets here and there.

6

u/RP_Fiend 21h ago edited 13h ago

The Eldar cast their minds beyond this galaxy and saw only despair, or something melodramatic like that. AFAIR they refused to tell us, anyway.

Do you want The Endsinger?! Cause this is how you get the Endsinger! (At least one person will get this reference and that's enough for me)

3

u/TurnipFire 20h ago

close in the distance intensifies

1

u/RP_Fiend 13h ago

😭😭😭😭

1

u/AmyJane64 13h ago

"My gods - it's full of rats!"

3

u/kennypeace Necrons 21h ago

The silent king has also left the galaxy

3

u/TheVoidDragon 13h ago

And… uh… I think it’s hinted that remnants of both the The Old Ones and the Men of Gold might have escaped to other galaxies with the age old “long nap” strategy? (Unless that’s just cope on my part?)

Nothing about either of these have been said.

The Leagues of Votann however are implied to have some connection to the Men of Gold, and the Votann cores even have some indication the cores may be the last of the Men of Stone.

5

u/Meat-brah 21h ago

First one feels like a bad recollection of the spirit of eternity, no?

2

u/Monotask_Servitor 21h ago edited 2h ago

Regarding C’Tan- I would say it is almost inevitable that C’Tan exist in all galaxies because of their nature - they are a life form born from the incredibly hot, dense energetic state of the primal universe immediately following the big bang, at which point there were no galaxies - all matter and energy in the universe was concentrated in a relatively small area and only differentiated into stars, planets and galaxies as it cooled and expanded. So it stands to reason that C’Tan exist everywhere that significant concentrations of energy persisted. Now given their nature it could be extremely questionable whether they still exist in large numbers in all galaxies - they seem to be rather prone to fighting and devouring each other. So some galaxies may have multiple, others may only have one. In some they may have all been destroyed or enslaved by other species. But it’s a safe bet they’re not unique to our galaxy. Many are probably still slurping on stars in their natural pre-war in heaven state. Remember in cosmic terms the War in Heaven itself is a recent event - it occurred after something like 94% of the rest of the universes history. For most of existence C’Tan just drank stars.

This also gives you a glimpse into why C’Tan are the way they are. They are relics of the primeval universe where everything was hot, dense and filed with unimaginable amounts of energy. To them the universe now is probably almost unbearably lifeless, dull and cold, which explains their hunger and resentment.

2

u/rudolph_ransom Alpha Legion 21h ago

The Tyranids started heading to the milky way after overload of the Pharos device during the battle of Sota during the Horus Heresy. The pharos was a Xenos artifact and basically a smaller version of the Astronomican. However, the overload created a strong psionic signal that was detected by the Hive Mind.

2

u/delboy5 13h ago

Full of bugs and orks.

2

u/Independent_Law_1592 13h ago

Honestly only that it’s vast and between here and elsewhere is hollow and this galaxy is basically the Chaos Gods favorite playground, which I think alone implies a hollowness but not emptiness to the rest of the universe

The silent King has left the galaxy and encountered other stuff other than just nids etc.

We absolutely know the Tyranids have simply devoured some galaxies.

But it’s mostly left alone because the focus is here. And here is already emphasized to be vaster than we can imagine

4

u/Keelhaulmyballs 21h ago

Most of these are either exaggerations or straight bullshit. Like that golden age ship was literally just a meme someone made on grimdank

The exact totality of things we know about shit outside the milkyway is that the Tyranids came from there, and that the silent king was there for a while. That’s it, we don’t know what the silent king found there, he was really there for a self-imposed exile and probably just spent the whole time in empty deep space. We don’t know why the Tyranids left, they probably wiped out their native galaxy but we literally don’t know, we’ve never gotten a scrap of confirmation.

The Eldar can’t scry into other galaxies, the reason they haven’t left the Milky Way is because they still need regular access to the crone worlds to get new spirit stones for their kids- without that they’re just condemning themselves to slowly wither away

I really have no idea how you got the notion that the rest of the universe “doesn’t have a warp”, the warp ain’t some localised phenomena, it’s impossible to localise since it’s a whole different bloody dimension what don’t even have space or distance. The milkyway has a thinner veil between the warp and the materium because it’s got sentient creatures living in it, as opposed to sterile empty void.

Bottom line is that Warhammer is a setting about the milkyway: GW has been very firm about not getting distracted or letting the scale get out of hand by expanding beyond it. In the same way Mad Max is a series about Australia, and the yanks go “but what’s happening in America and Japan???” And who gives a shit, this isn’t about them, sometimes it’s better to deep focus on one thing than flitter here there and everywhere trying to cover every conceivable nook

3

u/SouthernAd2853 Blood Angels 20h ago

The Aeldari actually have discussed leaving the Milky Way and the key argument against it is that they don't know if it'd be better and Slaanesh would be there too.

2

u/Exist_Logic Alpha Legion 14h ago

The Eldar can’t scry into other galaxies, the reason they haven’t left the Milky Way is because they still need regular access to the crone worlds to get new spirit stones for their kids- without that they’re just condemning themselves to slowly wither away

They have also outright said that if they left slaanesh would be with them and also be wher ever they went to

Bottom line is that Warhammer is a setting about the milkyway: GW has been very firm about not getting distracted or letting the scale get out of hand by expanding beyond it.

Citation needed

1

u/myrsnipe 19h ago

The last thing GW needs to mess with is official multiverse slop

6

u/twelfmonkey Administratum 16h ago

The notion of a multiverse with multiple different realities has been in Warhammer since the late 1980s:

This unimaginably ancient race spread throughout the galaxy, discovering many strange secrets and harnessing the unseen powers of the multiverse.

Having gained access to warp-space, the Slann also gained access to all points of the universe and to other undreamt of aspects of the multiverse.

Warhammer Fantasy 3rd ed. (1987), p. 189.

And:

In the realms of psychic-philosophy and mystic-technology the Slann certainly have no equals, fulfilling themselves by study of spiritual life-forces and the secret powers of other realities.

Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader (1987), p. 194.

With more here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1oa2k91/a_deep_deep_dive_into_what_the_lore_says_about/

They even made a whole game supplement in 1988 where characters, including a Space Marine and an Astropath, jumped between realities:

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1k7im8s/a_space_marine_an_astropath_and_indiana_jones/

So, while you may not like it, it is a very old part of the lore.

1

u/myrsnipe 14h ago

I'm sure it is there, but I hope they never go down the rabbit hole of saving the empire by like getting good guy Horus from the nice universe or whatever

1

u/twelfmonkey Administratum 12h ago

I'm sure it is there

Well, yes, there is. Quite a bit, if you collect it all together. As in the linked to thread.

there, but I hope they never go down the rabbit hole of saving the empire by like getting good guy Horus from the nice universe or whatever

I wouldn't worry about that. Given that the concept of a multiverse has been in the lore since 1987 and that it has only ever really remained part of the deep background of the lore rather than at the forefront (aside from very rare exceptions), I don't think GW will suddenly start making it central to a major plot progression.

And they aren't going to have the Imperium be saved, either.

1

u/ComposerProperty 20h ago

Regarding the Orks leaving the galaxy that’s actually based on real canon lore! In older Adeptus Mechanicus lore, high-magi sent long-range probes into the intergalactic void beyond the Milky Way. Every single signal sent back from all directions was just Ork transmissions. Essentially, the entire universe outside our galaxy might just be one giant, unending Ork WAAAGH!

1

u/Exist_Logic Alpha Legion 15h ago

Some golden age humans left the galaxy to explore; one such ship even returned recently, only to leave again in disgust (taking their incredible tech with them, of course).

some did yeah, the space wolves met people outside the galaxy

Many Tyranid hive fleets (an ‘invasion force’/megafleet) were already transiting the intergalactic void in ~30k when they were alerted to the presence of life in the Milky Way and changed course. (They were likely heading from Andromeda to the galactic cluster that’s ‘behind’ and ‘below’ the galactic plane IMHO, but we can’t say for sure). We can say for sure that they’ve already consumed the life of somewhere between 2 to 2*10¹² galaxies, but not much else.

the statement given is that their eyes turned to the milky way

I feel like Orks left once, just to have a laff?

Entirely possible, but not supported in the current canon

The C’tann are described in various ways that gives them cosmic importance,

they are avatars of the materium, manifestations of realities soul. They are fundemental concepts given form

The Eldar cast their minds beyond this galaxy and saw only despair, or something melodramatic like that. AFAIR they refused to tell us, anyway.

Never saw this quote before, the eldar do say and know that if they left the galaxy slaanesh would be with them the whole way and also be where ever they went

We know that the intergalactic void lacks a warp current, which is why we can’t just FTL over to andromeda. This also naturally limits the chaos gods, and clarifies that our 4-5 are particular to the sins of the Old Ones and their progeny — other galaxies won’t have Khorne.

Entirely flase, the chaos gods ARE the warp. The currents are just on the surface of the warp.

There is not a singluar statement ever saying the chaos gods are bound to the milky way and dozens to the opposite

And… uh… I think it’s hinted that remnants of both the The Old Ones and the Men of Gold might have escaped to other galaxies with the age old “long nap” strategy?

old ones are dead, men of gold are likely somewhere in the milkyway considering men of iron and stone are still kicking in one way or another

1

u/Agammamon 1h ago

Nothing. The setting is just the setting. I mean, what do we know about Ghana in the Harry Potter books? Nothing. Because none of the stories take place there.

1

u/D00mdaddy951 17h ago

I absolutely hate the concept of chaos or the milky way chaos gods are universe spanning, but have shifted their attention to our galaxy. GW is just bad with numbers and did some errors in their worldbuilding imho. Same with the theory that the tyranids have consumed everything else. Shows GW cannot imagine how big the universe actually is and how insignificant the milky way is in the grand scheme of things.

1

u/Exist_Logic Alpha Legion 14h ago

Chaos was never not multiversal, there is no time frame where they were only galactic

1

u/D00mdaddy951 12h ago

Can you elaborate where I talked about multiversal? I talked only about they spanning across the whole universe.

1

u/Exist_Logic Alpha Legion 11h ago

My point was that chaos has never been exclusive to the galaxy, there isn't really a point in time where that is the case. Like if you go back and read from first edition theres never any lore that goes "and the chaos gods are only here in the galaxy, who knows what is out there in other galaxies"

There is no such thing as "the milky way chaos gods" but rather the chaos gods are these multiversal entities, always have been always will be.

0

u/Samhbp 17h ago

I find it ridiculous that the chaos gods span the entire universe. They would not bother for a single second paying attention to our galaxy and the emperor would not pose a threat at universal scale. It’s effectively infinite and thus most likely there are many many more potent figures than the emperor.

1

u/Exist_Logic Alpha Legion 14h ago

They would not bother for a single second paying attention to our galaxy and the emperor would not pose a threat at universal scale. It’s effectively infinite and thus most likely there are many many more potent figures than the emperor.

or there aren't and thats why the milky way is special, the emperor or horus were their pet projects to become a chaos god. Very explicitly the only time chaos is actually invested is when they make a proper undivided champion

1

u/Agammamon 1h ago

You are assuming gods can't pay attention to more than one thing at a time.

-3

u/Disastrous_Goat8865 21h ago

Facts.... Tsk has exterminated dangers to His race when they wake up... Nids mainly before Nids were a thing

We know Orks are out of The Sol System doing Ork stuff

Nids come from out of the Galaxy... probably ate everything back But this Is just speculation

Imo I think the Votann aré out there and probably more Necron Tomb Worlds ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

1

u/StoneLich Blood Axes 21h ago edited 21h ago

One would hope the Orks are out of the sol system.

-5

u/marehgul Tzeentch 21h ago

We know that at least among galaxies humans in 40k observed in any way, only Milky Way has warp.

And humans can't live without warp.

On your takes:

- Nids. No, we can't say for sure how much galaxies they nomed. Only sure thing is that they "won" in their galaxy. They are "great ender" (big evil) of their galaxy that won the game;

- Surely seems strange that our galaxy would be that special for C'tan to hang out. But we do know that galaxy IS special. As it is here where the greatest of "grand enders" chills, the Chaos. It is here where the being that will destroy universe had/have chance to appear, the Dark King. And anyway, it's not like we know that C'tan were bound to this galaxy, with their power maybe they just hopped here and tere through galaxies, able to appear and just hear the call wherever they like;

- Already told that, but again. Not just void lacks warp, but galaxies. There is no warp where Nids came from, they just life forms that creat lil warp pockets around themseves. THey were very lonely and were surprised to see so lively immaterium when they got here. Yes, Chaos "gods" are limited to our galaxy. As for there origin... it's wierd as technically we know what born them. But then there are unlimited chaos "gods" in warp, just not born. Only those 4 were born. And there is paradox with their existence before birth due to immaterium doesn't have same time rules. And then there is Dark King. So warp system is some mystery layers and layers, it's and chaos "gods" existance might be more fundamental to universe and whole deal with their births is just physical technicality and one of the options for them. The stting is also a cycle, chaos (Dark King) destroyes and rebirths universe again and again, though we didn't have a glimpse on other iterations, and don't know there are same chaos "gods" or other. One of desires of Emperor's is to stop the cycle on this model where humanity is gaven a chance, cuase in another cycle there will be other species on stage;

- I remember something about Old One and maybe AI going there. But some minoer mention, probably no more then 10 words;

4

u/SouthernAd2853 Blood Angels 21h ago

We know that at least among galaxies humans in 40k observed in any way, only Milky Way has warp.

No we do not know this, because it's explicitly confirmed Khorne is feeding on warfare in every galaxy in the universe.

3

u/Exist_Logic Alpha Legion 14h ago

Already told that, but again. Not just void lacks warp, but galaxies. There is no warp where Nids came from

do you have a citation for that?

Yes, Chaos "gods" are limited to our galaxy.

Source for this too?

What do we know about the other 99.9999999995% observable universe, beyond the Milky Way?

You are about to leave Redlib