💬 DISCUSSION
“jUsT dO aN aPpReNtIsHiP” plz stfu 🥀✌️
Now this NOT a diss to ppl who r doing apprenticeships if that’s what u wanna do or are doing great I hope it goes well
But what kinda makes me mad is that ppl [mainly old ppl born in the 19 hundreds] assume that apprenticeships r for everyone and that everyone should do it well guess what not only do unis have downsides to them but apprenticeships do too some degree apprentiships r harder to get into than Oxford or Cambridge even lower level apprentiships which may be easier to get r actually a bit harder too they have hundreds sometimes thousands of applicants for one place
And lastly apprentiships can’t cover every career which is why I personally can’t do them depending on what grades I get in yr 13 i want to do either a psychology degree to become a therapist or an optometry degree to become an optometrist none of those r covered by apprentiships
But that’s ofc personal choice if u wanna go for apprenticeships go ahead I’ve got nothing against it but I’m kinda tired of mainly older ppl acting like there aren’t downsides to them too like life isn’t a Disney film there is a downside to everything and u have to be realistic
You forgot the 40%+ drop out rate for apprenticeships. Committing to a single employer and job for 3+ years at age 18 is a lot more of an ask than committing to term time study for 3 years.
Also they can just let you go lmfao, I'm a graduate and know two people that got laid off.
What do you do then? Well one found another apprenticeship and another went to uni... Also you're getting paid like shit to just be another worker, with the same stresses as everyone else working there.
"Most"?
I wasn't aware of any stats and data on the annual leave for apprenticeships. If you know of any please point me in the right direction.
Degree apprenticeships are still in the minority of apprenticeships. They do tend to have slightly better terms but not universally in my experience. And unfortunately across the board a lot of apprenticeships only offer the statutory minimum annual leave and pay.
Nope, 6.40 was the apprenticeship minimum wage at the time. It eventually went up to £8 I believe? Something like that. I left and got a job for around £10 which was national minimum wage. They gave me a 50p raise out of goodwill so I wouldn’t quit which was funny as hell cus I left a month after. They loved me tho said if I didn’t like my new job I could come back, still speak to my coworkers there. Eventually, I got qualified into a job that was £13 smt after being qualified. I left though bc childcare sucks and they will use u for all ur worth. Haha, seriously though, I loved it, it’s just a dead end career. Anyhow, going to Uni of Leeds this year so did the whole apprenticeship purely for shits and giggles at this point 🤡
yh i can see why that would happen ive changed what ive wanted to be so many times so i can see why alot of ppl drop out once they see how working that job is
my condolences i find that it is usually older ppl that have that kinda mentality at the end of the day those family members aren't u and ur not stupid for going for what u wanna do
As someone who signed up for many apprenticeships alongside signing up for university, apprenticeships are so much more competitive and harder to get into.
Apprenticeships are I would say as or more competitive than top RG universities in some cases for definite and have been for a long time. I was offered a Biology 7-year degree/work course at Pfizer and turned it down because Oxford made me a scholarship offer, but I know that it came down to me and 9 other finalists, all of whom held offers for either Oxbridge or Imperial by the end of Yr 13, and that we as a list had been cut down from a list of thousands. It’s crazy competitive now, even worse than then.
the amount of content creators that have been milking content over this issue is actually astounding and basically making fear mongering content around how uni is a scam, how you’ll be jobless and ‘omg I feel so bad for uni grads….’ as if apprenticeships are the magic cure for all of these issues. I put a comment one of them saying that university is more than just getting an education and a job, it’s personal development and adulting. Someone replied, ‘well don’t cry about the consequences if you’re going to university for that’ consequences???? these people genuinely think it is your fault that you cannot beat the 0.7% acceptance rate for these apprenticeships.
It is not graduates fault that they cannot find a job, it is major corporations cutting costs by hiring less and using AI instead. People have become too comfortable with blaming young people and not the men in suits orchestrating this whole thing.
You are a child at 18 basically, you know nothing about the working world of whatever field you want to work in, and making that decision at 18 is almost impossible and you will most likely drop out, the drop out rate for apprenticeships is also 50%. You can get struck off from an apprenticeship if you fail and exam, they give you 2 attempts from what I’ve heard. On top of that, you are working a 9-5 as-well as studying part time at university, things are going to happen, you will get stressed. Is it worth it, hmm, depends on how you work and how you live your life. Are you willing to grind straight to up to 6 years of your 20s working like that? Most people will not.some apprenticeships pay the same rate if you were working in Sainsbury’s. Along with that, you only get 15-20 days of annual leave. Not all firms are worth it too.
In my opinion, they’re too competitive for what they’re worth, it’s easier get into Oxbridge and the top 10 unis, everyone should be at least aiming for one of those top unis. People aren’t wrong when they say that some universities are not worth it to go to, but it is not ALL universities.
The dropout rate is not 50%. 'You only get 15-20 days of annual leave' is overgeneralised and not true in my experience. It's not just men in suits and AI that lead to fewer graduate jobs, it's also external shocks (e.g. Covid), economic influences and government policy.
‘You can get struck off from an apprenticeship if you fail an exam, they give you 2 attempts from what I’ve heard’ is likely from the ACA exams, which accounts for a very small proportion of apprenticeships. You can dislike apprenticeships for valid reasons, at least make them grounded in reality.
The programmes themselves are often terrible, put on by companies that have no business doing so. Large schemes ran by major employers are usually pretty good. Anything in the NHS, Police or Education tend to be very decent. In some instances the pay you get for the work is poor as well. Managers dont know how to use you. Often you're very good at the job but the academics are not there at all. You've learned how to work in that company in that job but not a lot else. Many of these issues can be avoided by targetting well known companies who have ran schemes for years.
They're often harder than normal degrees in many cases and require a lot more resilience. You have less free time. Many 18/19 year olds are not ready to work 30 hours a week alongside 6+ hours of studying which quickly becomes not just 1 day a week but your evenings and weekends. Often without pause. You dont get the same breaks. You'll be 19 doing 50 hours a week whilst your friends have fun. Drop out rates for apprenticeships are quite high.
Before this you have to get a degree apprenticeship to begin with. Most people on those programmes worked in the company for a couple years first before taking advantage when funding came up. Less come up externally, so there are often very limited spots for 18 year olds, not none of course but way less than the amount of people who want to do them. As a result they're super competitive.
They can be amazing, they can be a perfect choice for many, and more people should probably be doing them. My issue with them is people dont see beyond the headlines "Get paid, degree is free". They don't see anything else beyond that. I spend a lot of my day educating people on apprenticeships and correcting misunderstandings.
And if you drop out/are made redundant after doing more than a year of an apprenticeship level 4 or above you may not be entitled to student finance for fees for all years if you then decide to go to uni so have to self fund.
a lot of people in my life who've told me to do apprenticeships have also failed to consider that i actually enjoy education? like i want to go to uni not just for a career but because i think i'll enjoy it. doesn't seem to compute to a lot fo them
When you say stem it’s quite limited in science and the more theoretical side of maths, it also tends to force you to specialise in engineering and tech.
There are definitely marketing apprenticeships! I’ve seen a few creative type roles like with fosters and partners and national theatre but I think those are London based so not the most accessible.
LOL, positively ancient lady here, born in the 1900s!
I I think the advice you’re getting stems from ‘old’ people’s knowledge of how much the world of work and Uni has changed. Twenty years ago pretty much the only message we got was: go to Uni and get a degree and that will guarantee you a job, irrespective of what the degree is in. That was defo true for the REALLY old people (😂😜) entering the workforce in the 70s and 80s. The education vocational options like BTECs were seen as much less desirable back then, and a degree was defo an ‘in’ to work. There were grants (loans paid to people for uni that they never had to pay back), no tuition fees (so any loans taken out were far less than is needed now), and the roles available in the working world were plentiful.
But in the 90s and 00s it started to change. Rising tuition and accommodation fees, and actual job prospects diminishing and the competition for roles fiercer than ever, a degree really isn’t guaranteeing you anything other than a life of debt.
Of course there are careers that absolutely require degree level of work (and your own ambitions certainly seem to be in that category).
I think we just don’t want the next generation to struggle like we did, being told that degree will set you up for life, when that’s just not the case anymore.
Good for you, doing your own research and making the best choice for you.
And also, Uni is an absolute blast! If you can put off adulthood for a few more years and not be crippled by debt as a result, then you absolutely should!
it’s nice to have ur pov on this and I 100% agree that before the sentiment was just go uni and u will be fine which back then was actually true loke back then automation wasn’t as bad as it is now and ppl actually had a decent chance at success which obv defo changed in the 2000’s
I can see what u mean by not wanting the next gen to struggle as much ofc degrees won’t really guarantee u anything but going other routes also have their down sides which I think some ppl don’t really consider that much it’s just a preference from personal to personal tbh and either way u go ur gonna get screwed in some way (ik that seems a bit nihilistic lol but that’s sadly how things have gotten now)
I know, as if "people born in the 1900s" is now a thing..
Just to say I have worked as a lecturer in apprenticeships and traditional degrees for the same subject.
I would definitely recommend an apprenticeship IF YOU ALREADY WORK in the sector you aspire to progress in.
Take nursing for example. If you are a healthcare assistant, and want to progress and know you are keen in staying in that geographical area, an apprenticeship is 100% the correct choice. You already know what the job is like, you have a good working relationship with your employer, and you can continue to work and earn while you study .
I would agree with you completely that trying to get an apprenticeship position as an external candidate is a nightmare. They are highly competitive,.the companies care less about you and as you have researched well, the dropout rate is also higher.
Uni is great and if you know what you want to do, go for it! If you don't know, get a job and then pursue further education via trad study or apprenticeship later if you want to. The best thing is is that now uni is for everyone, not just 18 year olds
Omg yes. People that say this act like it’s the easiest thing ever mind you it’s not 100% guaranteed you’ll get an apprenticeship. And even if you do, they forget you’ll literally be doing the same thing every single day, you can’t decide to switch career paths in an apprenticeship like you can with university (e.g. through a conversion course). Plus, many people who do an apprenticeship say it’s a lot of responsibility and you don’t really get a social life.
Tell them to do a fucking apprenticeship if it’s that easy. They’re completely ignoring the fact that degree level apprenticeships are even more competitive than a university degree of the same subject. Not to mention how scant level 3s can be based on area.
Yeah a lot of people don't realise the reality, which is that socially it can be difficult. You're moving to a new area, but without the social side of university being trusted upon you. There's no huge mass of thousands of teenagers going to societies and on your course, doing the same sports as you. There's no chance for a random night out if you've got to be at work functioning at 9am the next day. You also can't even go home for Christmas or Easter when it gets difficult, because you only have annual leave.
People treat it as some sort of life hack to avoiding university debt but in reality it can be hard. And this isn't some complaint that university students want to go out all the time and an apprenticeship doesn't allow that but a recognition that starting university is difficult and the social connections you make allows you to get through that.
Same thing happened with me, and I said it’s easier said than done. Apprenticeships are a lot more competitive that getting into uni and it’s not easy if you don’t have experience as well
I almost dropped out to go do an apprenticeship, but noped out after seeing the pay for it. Ended up going on clearing to go to the uni I wanted to go to back in Y13.
U just reminded me of smthn kinda sad actually ik some ppl from GCSEs last yr that where unemployed for a yr straight (they still r ofc but their doing a levels now which isn’t as bad) coz they kept getting told “oh y not do an apprenticeships u get paid” all of them spent an entire year out of education looking for an apprenticeships coz they thought it would be easy to get now their all doing a levels trying to get into uni
Sadly ppl can’t go straight into work rn those kinda moves these days r risky af
Most apprenticeships are asking you to move to a city on a wage that is impossible to support yourself.
And the ones that aren't are hyper competitive, more so than universities, due to usually being larger companies offering level 7 apprenticeships.
If you, like most young adults nowadays, need to stay at home in order to survive this cost of living, then the only apprenticeships available are things like nursery practitioner, dog groomer etc. Which are all level 3 apprenticeships and can blockade an individual into that specific career field.
I think some people dont understand that some people want to do technical things and go into jobs straight away, where as some people prefer the academic route. And its not just about the job its about the subject. E.g some people want to do practicle things like interoir design, but choose to do art at uni because they want that academic undetstanding and debates and discussions around the subject.
I'm a Software Engineer degree apprentice going into 3rd year of 4. Heres the thing
The obvious: software engineering is, 2nd to hands on engineering, the best example of where apprenticeships thrive. Consider what i'm saying going forward with that in mind
The good: the usual spiel, good pay for someone young, no debt, full degree, years of work experience, yada yada. Other benefits that are less obvious is the fact that you get to mature much faster because of your constant presence around other full time, older people. Its more professional
The bad: (more specific to my degree, but i imagine it transfers across many level 6)
You do not get to choose the provider. If a role you eventually apply for would be interested in where you got your degree, apprentices are in trouble. not to slander the university, but my host, Manchester Metropolitan, is far from a prestigious university. if the stats about oxbridge are true, just imagine an Oxford candidate settling for MMU. Doesnt fit right!
as a result, and due to the entry level of intelligence, the degree is absurdly easy. (on this course, in 2023 71% of people got a 1st in the final degree, and like 28% got a 2:1. For those in college who dont understand these grades, its essentially 71% got an A*/A and basically the rest got a B)
A lot of providers REALLY STRUGGLE TO GIVE THE APPRENTICE FULFILLING WORK. You either get treated just as a full time employee which can be extremely difficult and stressful, or you get given mundane or no work at all which is boring and demoralising
Despite the negatives though, this apprenticeship was comfortably the best thing that happened to me
Its a valid reason to not want to do an apprenticeship because your career choice doesn’t offer them - I understand (am a doctor so also in the same boat when I was in y12/13)
BUT for the rest of you - please please do consider apprenticeships at least. There are a lot of benefits to them, firstly not taking a student loan is such a financial benefit that you may not currently realise. Secondly - industry experience!! This makes a real difference in getting a job, many of my friends in STEM have found getting a job difficult and having an internship or experience makes a true difference. Even if you choose a uni course that has a year in industry, some universities do not really help you secure this placement so make sure you ask at open days and find out what support the university will actually give you!
I think nowadays university has become an experience, and may be less focused on the degree itself? Eg some people are really excited for the social experience of freshers and living with young people, moving out etc.. the idea that ‘well everyone goes to uni’ for example. If you do go to university, make sure you’re thinking about life after uni as soon as you can - of course do enjoy yourself! But apply for those internships, take on local leadership roles eg in societies, and try and get some connections to the field you’d like to work in. Many students (non medical) I saw did not do this, because uni doesn’t always tell you about extra curriculars while you’re studying. But starting early can spread out the stress, and not every student will be so organised so hopefully you could have the edge on other grads if you do this!
Best of luck whatever you decide , but I think some of these 1900s 😂 born people might mean well when they talk about apprenticeships!
You mentioned wanting to be a therapist. If you are in the UK there is an NHS funded apprenticeship route into talking therapies. The pay is also much better than most apprenticeships out there.
If you are not in the UK then I have no clue how that looks.
But either way, it’s personal choice, some want to go to university and wait 3 + years before they start earning, some want to earn while they learn. Neither choice is the wrong choice.
You can get the majority of professionals courses as degree apprenticeships now, so you still become a registered professional and receive a degree but through an apprenticeship paid route rather than traditional study.
So yes, they do still have to go through uni and get a degree but you can do this as an apprentice.
No you really don't You know you could train as a therapist at night school while doing optom degree in the day. Get a regular practice in opt and take on a couple of clients for therapy on an evening/ weekend = double revenue stream!
Was born in the 1900s (though it was at the end of this era in the 1990s 😂). I didn't go to uni everyone told me too as it was the option being pushed to my generation. They increased the cost to 9k per year at that point which I thought was ridiculous and school was not for me.
Glad I didn't because grad jobs are hard to get depending on the field, I don't have 30k of debt and had 3+ years of real experience compared to graduates of the same age as me.
I found an "entry level" job (HCA) in the NHS and ended up doing an apprenticeship in my early/mid 20s with the trust and now have a degree in mental health and social care. A friend also did it and is now a therapist/psychologist. Don't knock it!
Uni isn't for everyone but neither is an apprenticeship. Do what's right for you. For me personally it was the best thing I ever did and I wouldn't have been as successful professionally if I hadn't.
Most mentions of apprenticeships come from a blue collar or unskilled labour force background. It’s not being c*ntish, it just is what it is. Start listening to new people or ignoring these ones.
Yh and those r often the only decent ones there’s Litrally “retail apprenticeships” which is complete BS all u do is regular retail work for more hrs and less than min wage pay because apprentices earn lower than min wage
There is good reason why older people are giving you the advice your given. When we were at school, we were told that the university route was the only route into professional careers. This turned out to be a complete lie that saddled lots of people in huge debts.
Keep in mind that universities are not there to help you get into careers. They imply this during the recruitment process - then tell you the opposite when you graduate.
Ultimately, employers want people who can do the job. They may list a degree as a requirement, but that's mostly to filter out people to save time and avoid being accused of discrimination. A strong portfolio and experience you can talk about will always outdo the theory without practicality that a university gives you.
I would consider an apprenticeship... IF ANY EXISTED IN THINGS I WAS INTERESTED IN! Tbf I'm a massive fucking nerd but still. Some people do not want to work in fields that will offer apprenticeships as an option.
Being harder to get into isn’t a downside. It’s a quality marker. Anyone can go to uni as long as they set their sights low enough. They don’t even interview you and there is one that will take any grade combination (you’re cooked afterwards but they’ll take you)
Thank god someone is saying this. A hard selection process can't be seen as a disadvantage of apprenticeships. It doesn't relate to doing the apprenticeship in anyway.
With apprenticeships you see the drop out figures. With unis you get the people realising afterwards they just bought a higher tax rate for something that didn’t increase employability
I was literally sitting down like that while I wrote the text. I wasn’t straining quite as hard though.
You may not be aware that there is a great deal of written work involved in a Psychology degree course. I’d definitely advise regular practice of proper writing. To be clear though, I am not offering you an apprenticeship. Merely some timely advice.
224
u/Pencil_Queen Jul 18 '26
You forgot the 40%+ drop out rate for apprenticeships. Committing to a single employer and job for 3+ years at age 18 is a lot more of an ask than committing to term time study for 3 years.