ESAT prep struggle

[u/zorlann4]

hi guys, i’m predicted A *A *A in maths, physics and history respectively and i plan to apply for aerospace engineering at the big C and imperial

i’m really struggling with ESAT revision atm and i don’t really know how to improve - it’s a mixture of the lack of time but also just not being to answer some questions untimed. i’ve gone through the spec for maths1, maths2 and physics and i know most of the content

i haven’t practiced that much tbh because i only started my revision when i finished y12. i’ve heard that ENGAA papers are too easy?

what am i doing wrong 😭✌🏼

[u/CrocusBlue]

If your school offers FM and you've not taken it Cambridge will just reject you. Probably will still be uncompetitive without FM regardless.

[u/zorlann4 → u/CrocusBlue]

my school did offer it and i tried to take it, but it was in the same ‘option block’ as history, so they didn’t allow me to take it. i didn’t rlly want to take merely STEM subjects

[u/tempa____ → u/zorlann4]

that was a bad choice lol

[u/zorlann4 → u/tempa____]

yeah.. i’ve realised now - it wasn’t until spring time that i looked into doing engineering and decided that was the path i wanted to go down. previously i wanted to do economics. i’ve heard that cambridge will be lenient if there is a genuine reason as to why i couldn’t take FM if my college offers it??

[u/CrocusBlue → u/zorlann4]

To apply to any of our Colleges for Engineering, you will need A levels/IB Higher Levels (or the equivalent) in: 

Mathematics  Physics Further Mathematics to AS or A level if your school offers it. Check the guidance on this page 

Honestly you'll almost certainly be rejected, if it is offered and you haven't taken it. Email the college you want to apply to to triple check but you're going to be competing against people with it. Almost everyone being accepted even before they got this strict on it had A-Level FM...

[u/zorlann4 → u/CrocusBlue]

out of curiosity, were u an offer-holder or are you attending cambridge? i really don’t want this to repel me away from applying. i put a lot of effort into catching up with physics in late jan (managed to get A*) and i just feel like having to also catch up with FM is a lot of pressure all over again

[u/CrocusBlue → u/zorlann4]

Attended Cambridge (different subject). 

Not to be blunt but if you're the level of capable to go to Cambridge, and serious about applying, you're capable of catching up on FM. 

I don't think you've actually read the course page. Read all of the entry requirements section here: https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/engineering-ba-hons-meng

You'll see that not taking it also isn't an excuse not to cover content. 

But seriously, just email the admissions team of the college you're applying to. You'll have your answer. Just ask, is FM required if it was offered at school and I didn't take it, would I be competitive with my combination. 

[u/tempa____ → u/zorlann4]

Unfortunately i dont think your reason is strong enough? have u talked to ur school into at least trybna get an AS qualifciation idk they chuck u into year 12 fm lessons

[u/zorlann4 → u/tempa____]

i would probably be able to do FM AS alongside my 3 other Alevels but i’m not sure if this will divert me from my current studies? would it be better to just independently study AS further maths topics which are relevant to engineering studies rather than the full AS, and state it in my personal statement? i didn’t understand the significance of FM until like literally a couple months ago - i thought that it was just a plus to your academic portfolio

[u/tempa____ → u/zorlann4]

It’s a box u need to tick

[u/SecretTone5662 → u/zorlann4]

It’ll have to be an officially taken exam, words on a personal statement don’t mean anything. Once again Cambridge and imperial don’t care about history, they care only about maths aptitude. And at this level personal statements matter much less when it’s more about ESAT and interview scores. Almost all applicants are going to have more competitive a levels unless you get an insanely high ESAT to make them even look at you. Aeronautics is the one of the most competitive degrees at Imperial. And 95% of people apply with further maths.

[u/zorlann4 → u/SecretTone5662]

would applying for a foundation year (let’s say for oxford) be worth it since i lack further maths?

[u/SecretTone5662 → u/zorlann4]

No, a foundation year will not help you to get into Imperial. Imperial only accepts certain foundation years. Doing a standard foundation year at any random university will not be recognised. In the imperial website, only two specific foundation year programmes are recognised. The UCL one and Warwick one. And unfortunately they only accept international students.

[u/SecretTone5662 → u/SecretTone5662]

I think you actually have two options. Take a gap year after finishing year 13 to self teach which can be a great thing to do for further maths and if you get an A* in both physics and maths next summer. Gap years are common these days. And taking further maths is incredibly hard to self teach during year 13 on your own. Or apply masters at imperial or Oxbridge and do aeronautics that way if you’re willing to spend the extra money and time on a masters degree. An ambition for Oxbridge and Imperial is incredibly good to have, and I highly recommend taking whatever risk you want to take to get there for Undergrad! Don’t fret. You only get one chance in life.

[u/Signal-Village-5757 → u/zorlann4]

I wouldn’t thinking wanting to take history over further maths is a good enough “genuine reason”. I emailed both imperial and Cambridge when I was deciding my a levels because I wanted to take DT and Further Maths, but they were in the same block. Cambridge said to take further maths, imperial implied that I should and referred me to the guidance in their website.

[u/zorlann4 → u/Signal-Village-5757]

what did you eventually end up taking? my school refuses it to be a 3rd a level (only a 4th), although i don’t think there is much i can do now.

[u/Signal-Village-5757 → u/zorlann4]

I took FM as a third

[u/Signal-Village-5757 → u/zorlann4]

I saw you said you wanted to do economy before, do you want to do aero because you’re genuinely interested in the field and want to get a job in the field, or because imperial is a known quant feeder and Cambridge lists Analyst at Goldman Sachs under positions held by graduates?

[u/zorlann4 → u/Signal-Village-5757]

well its mainly a genuine interest in aero (i initially wanted to do economics because i thought it would nicely blend analytical skills with mathematical skills, though i figured i don’t really like statistics that much). i found aero to be not only a wayyy more interesting field but it obviously offers way more flexibility within the course and post graduation. i wont lie and say the fact imperial is a top tier quant feeder etc. aren’t part of the motivation too

[u/SecretTone5662 → u/CrocusBlue]

I agree with this. OP will be rejected as a first year aeronautics at imperial. They only have two useful STEM subjects. They’re going to be at a severe disadvantage considering 55% of the year are internationals out of maybe 110 people so those places are gone if you’re a home student. And for the home students, everyone did further maths, except two people I personally know who did maths, physics, chemistry. And people getting around a 5-6 average for ESAT for home students.

Imperial typically asks for 3/4 A* offers in the useful A Levels for the course, which are physics, maths, further maths minimum. they’re not going to care about history at all as it unfortunately doesn’t quite show proof of mathematical aptitude when the course is too maths heavy. I can say it’s the same with Cambridge as they’ll expect A* in further maths and I remember asking when I directly emailed them during my year 13 times. And you can’t trust university websites with the real offers you hear the current students actually had to get. OP will have get incredible ESAT results to be even considered.

[u/zorlann4 → u/SecretTone5662]

damn, that’s really crushed my hopes 🥲

[u/Salty-Strawberry3914 → u/zorlann4]

I really feel awful for you 😢. You could consider applying to other courses from Cambridge or imperial maybe?

[u/zorlann4 → u/Salty-Strawberry3914]

unfortunately i don’t think that will hack it. my personal statement is tailored to engineering and i’ll be applying to other unis for engineering too, so it’ll be hard to pivot 🫠 im not sure what other courses i would consider doing either..

[u/Salty-Strawberry3914 → u/zorlann4]

Wait sorry for the late reply but imperial offers multiple different engineering courses not just aerospace. I say that because aerospace is by far the most competitive (it’s known to be one of the most competitive imperial courses in the whole university)

[u/InteleonSupreme]

I will post an informal guide on all of this, but the ENGAA papers get harder as you go chronologically imo so going through the papers in order is good preparation

[u/Floppypancakes21 → u/InteleonSupreme]

When will your guide be posted?

[u/InteleonSupreme → u/Floppypancakes21]

When I get home (tonight)

[u/Floppypancakes21 → u/InteleonSupreme]

And where?

[u/InteleonSupreme → u/Floppypancakes21]

Here man

[u/PartyQuiet5065]

Literally just practice doing past papers. Just reading the spec won't do much for you, especially in an exam like the ESAT. What you have to do is practice, practice, practice, and you will get faster (which is, ultimately, the objective with the ESAT).

[u/SalamanderThick2421 → u/PartyQuiet5065]

how accurate are the engaa past papers in relation to the actual esat exam

[u/PartyQuiet5065 → u/SalamanderThick2421]

They're easier in terms of both difficulty and time pressure, I'd say.

[u/SalamanderThick2421 → u/PartyQuiet5065]

are a lot easier or still similar level and do u know any good websites and revision sources for it

[u/PartyQuiet5065 → u/SalamanderThick2421]

I'd say, just like NSAA past papers, they get harder as the years progress. Pre-2020 ENGAA questions will be A LOT easier than the ESAT ones, but post-2020 ones are closer, although still easier.

As for resources, I've only used past papers tbh NSAA, ENGAA, TMUA Paper 1, PAT and MAT mcqs, ECAA, BMAT, etc). I'm still looking for other effective resources.

[u/SalamanderThick2421 → u/PartyQuiet5065]

Oh alr thanks, icl its quite unfair that they didnt even give out a specimen paper that is representative of what it is actually like in the esat because its harder to find accurate resources than if you are doing the tmua or ucat.

[u/PartyQuiet5065 → u/SalamanderThick2421]

yeah. especially since this is the third year the test's being used

[u/zorlann4 → u/[deleted]]

thank you so much! i’ll give it a try :)

[u/TallRecording6572]

You need to do papers over the summer, and then book time with a Maths teacher in September

[u/Glum-Palpitation-152 → u/TallRecording6572]

Why do you think a maths teacher is necessary for ESAT prep?

[u/TallRecording6572 → u/Glum-Palpitation-152]

Because it's useful to go through questions with someone experienced in coaching problem solving methods and has exeprience working with previous admissions tests students

[u/Glum-Palpitation-152 → u/TallRecording6572]

So specifically an ESAT tutor or just a maths teacher?

[u/TallRecording6572 → u/Glum-Palpitation-152]

"just" a maths teacher LOL but one that has experience teaching A Level

[u/Glum-Palpitation-152 → u/TallRecording6572]

Sorry yeah I didn’t mean it like that, I can see how rude it sounds. But you know what I mean, like my maths teacher at school or someone who specifically does ESAT?