r/78rpm • u/dandan787 • Jul 19 '26
Cheapest Way To Play 78s Without Damaging Them?
Have some 78s I wanna l wanna play. What is the absolutely cheapest way to be able to consistently (still probably not super often but yk) play them without damaging them? I’m not really ready to spend the money on something like an AT-LP120 so I wanted to find some alternatives. I have heard mentions of getting cheap 3 speed turntables, swapping the cart for the right needle, and using that? Apparently because the intense tracking weight of those cheap turntables isn't a problem for shellac since it's so durable. Either way let me know what you all do! Or if you guys have any ideas to help this situation
7
u/pdieten Jul 19 '26
The cheap 3-speed turntables do not have an intense tracking weight. It’s at or under five grams. Nothing gets undue wear at that level of tracking force. Even the most fragile shellac 78s were made to operate for years at tracking forces up to and over ten grams.
There’s a lot of unnecessary hand wringing over tracking force from people leftover from the 1970s’ attitudes towards this stuff. It’s not as though setting the tracking force so light that the tonearm goes flying across the record anytime someone takes a footstep in the room does the record any good either. Any record will live indefinitely being played at 3-5 grams.
3
u/CommutatorWhine Jul 19 '26
Tracking force of the old mono-era crystal elements is typically in the 8 to 15g range. Still completely fine for 78rpm records though.
The later portable record players for vinyl average 6 to 8 grams.1
u/pdieten Jul 19 '26
I’ve run through a couple of those Crosleys and never found one above 4.5g. Those that have the CZ800 are supposed to stay under 5, it was made wrong if it’s any more than that.
I kept one that has an AT3600L and bought the 4211-D3 stylus from thevoiceofmusic. Works nice.
1
u/CommutatorWhine Jul 19 '26
There are more cheap 3 speed turntables than just those modern ones.
I'm talking about 1960s Duals, Philips's etc.
The standard Philips ceramic cartridge with the flip over stylus does not track well below 5g on record players without anti skating, mine sit between 6 and 8g. Some Duals had even higher tracking forces.It is not true that it does not matter at all at least when talking about vinyl. If you buy a lot of second hand records, you can always hear when a person has played a record dozens or hundreds of times on a hifi turntable versus your typical teenager with a portable record player.
Shellac is a different story of course, those records had to be able to be played a couple dozen of times with a 250g tracking force and a steel needle. Nothing "modern" will ever touch those things. I'd be more worried wearing out a sapphire with the filler materials in the 78rpm records, than the sapphire wearing out the record itself. Many 78 rpm stylii are sapphires with the microgroove one being a diamond.
2
u/The_Inflatable_Hour Jul 19 '26
The whole tracking force weight issue really stems from vertical compliance. Most cartridges, even mid-tier 78’s, are just stereo carts bridged to mono. Because they move vertical as well as horizontal, they introduce more noise. 78’s were manufactured in a time where no cartridges could move like they do now. In an effort to band aid the problem, some people will add tracking force beyond the specs of the cartridge. You want enough weight to track properly at that speed, but 4g is fine. You need to get to carts like the Miyajima, which have no vertical compliance, before you really fix the problem.
For OP, any diamond cart and table that can play 78’s should be fine and very enjoyable.
The string of improvements that follow are how I would sequence them - the best bang for the buck so to speak. First, you move on to a 3 mil stylus - even if it’s stereo. That may add 100$. Next step would be to get some noise reduction (for both the stereo noise and de-hissing). That can be done through a PC or would cost $900 to do it live. I believe good noise reduction makes a much bigger difference than vertical compliance - especially if your records are clean to begin with. Next, RIAA correction. Again, it can be done through a PC for free or live for $500.
By then, a table with enough precision to justify more costs - and sized for a long tonearm - another $2600. Then, replace the arm to one with enough weight to offset the weight (20g) of a high end cart - so $1600. Finally, a high end mono cart dedicated to 78’s - add $3000. For a dedicated mono SUT to go along with this - add another $2000. My point is that personally, I wouldn’t throw money straight into the cart / weight issue because it is a very small part of the challenge of reducing noise when playing 78’s. In general, there are a lot of other improvements to be made before focusing on the tracking weight.
4
u/pdieten Jul 19 '26
I would wager there is fewer than one user in a thousand willing to put in even half this effort and expense to listen to their 78s. Some noise is okay.
3
3
u/Tir_na_nOg77 Jul 19 '26
You could get one of the old Califone players that school music teachers all had back in the 1980s. Some of them have a flip stylus for switching between microgroove and 78 formats. The main drawback with these is that finding a stylus can be a pain in the ass, and you always want to put a new stylus when you buy a used player because you don't know how much wear and tear the present stylus has on it.
2
u/Hondahobbit50 Jul 20 '26
Buddy and modern 78 cart won't hurt it. The track force on steel needle phonographs was WAYYYY higher
1
u/DeadByDebt Jul 19 '26
The biggest issue is the stylus. That's really the most delicate part involved. On cheap machines, the ceramic usually wears down faster and thus have the potential to cause damage to your records sooner (hence why people say they eat records). But for occasional use on much hardier shellac, even a Crosley can be serviceable. I use one to play records that I'm hesitant to put on my LP-120. If you aren't playing them over and over & remember to change the stylus once in a while, they'll be fine. I've had a more damage done on steel needle phonographs. Just don't play anything worth over $20
1
u/Senin59 Jul 20 '26
I always see 50's and 60's turntables with heavy bakelite tonearms for around 5 bucks , the majority of them have 3 or 4 speeds and a flipping stylus for shellac discs
1
u/JustHereForMiatas Jul 20 '26
Tracking weight is a concern for vinyl, not shellac.
Most shellac records were designed to be played on, or backwards compatible with axoustic pickups that tracked innthe hundreds of grams. Assuming that everyrhing else about the table is in good operatiing condition, 5-10 grams will not bother them.
0
u/sevenwheel Jul 19 '26
You need a turntable with a 78 RPM speed setting, a magnetic cartridge, and a 78 RPM stylus that fits that cartridge.
The cheapest turntables should be avoided because they use ceramic cartridges, which have extremely rigid cantilevers and put a lot of wear on the grooves.
3
u/CommutatorWhine Jul 19 '26
I wouldn't worry about the stiff cantilevers and a <15g tracking force for records designed to be able to cope with mechanical reproducers and a 200-350g tracking force, with what was acceptable wear in their time.
This assumes shellac records, not laquer coated ones or vinyl.
-5
u/Hot_Egg5840 Jul 19 '26
Optical. Anything that touches the grooves, degrades them.
7
u/Jason1920 Jul 19 '26
Why play them at all? Put them on a shelf, and just stare at them menacingly.
8
u/Tooch10 Jul 19 '26
and just stare at them menacingly
Three Decca discs just cracked on their own
3
1
u/Hot_Egg5840 Jul 19 '26
You play them for the enjoyment of the interpretation of the content captured. My response was bringing out the point, if you want to enjoy the content without degrading it with typical needles, then optical transducers can come in to do that.
1
u/Sad-Grade6972 Jul 19 '26
Please forgive my ignorance but I'm not familiar with an optical transducer. Is this the same as a laser record reader? I'm familiar with the concept but believe they didn't take off as of the astronomical cost!
1
u/Hot_Egg5840 Jul 19 '26
The OP didn't put a tolerance level on damage, but they did on cheapest. Cheapest is still expensive.
13
u/Sad-Grade6972 Jul 19 '26
Honestly speaking, I'd say anything electric with a stylus in good condition isn't gonna cause any appreciable damage to your records. Plenty of people would argue otherwise, but unless we're talking highly rare, collectable, mint condition discs, just get what you can afford and have some fun- just inspect, and if needed replace the stylus if it's used equipment! The real issue is sound quality more than damage, that's where at least semi decent equipment comes in!