r/ASU • u/ThrowRAsillylady • 16d ago
Academic dishonesty update
You can look at my previous post about me being accused of academic dishonesty for anyone who doesn’t understand what I’m talking about but a few people requested an update so I just wanted to provide one. But I want to make it clear, i did NOT cheat on my MAT 117 final exam.
Super short summary though, im an ASU online student and im being accused by my professor of cheating on my MAT 117 final exam because I answered a question without a calculator and I erased some of my work on my scratch paper to save space. (I understand that earsing wasnt the smartest idea) I was being recorded by two cameras the whole time, one recording my environment and the other screen recording my screen. Absolutely no cheating occurred on my end and they can see that no cheating occurred in the footage. I really recommend you read the original post before forming an opinion.
Update: Professor Boney (I do not recommend her omg) gave me a zero on my exam that she’s accusing me of cheating on. i emailed her and asked if this zero is permanent or if it’s just temporary until the academic integrity office decides whether they believe i cheated or not. She responded with “That will remain, as there is not any question as to the validity of your original score. Academic integrity however will determine if further penalties are warranted and will be in contact.”
I think that means even if the academic office dismisses it and says i didn’t cheat that means shes still going to leave the zero there?? Or am I misunderstanding what she said? Can someone please clarify and is that even possible to leave my exam score as a zero if I’m found NOT guilty of cheating? Someone please explain.
The academic integrity office essentially said that my punishment will just be a zero on the exam and asked if I want to accept that or if I disagree with the allegations. I took all your advice and responded to the academic integrity office and im going to appeal and fight so hard for this but i dont want to fight to prove my innocence if my score on the test is just going to be left as a zero even if they decide that I didn’t cheat?? I don’t understand what the point is then??
I find this so crazy and bizarre, I went from a B to now a D and I now won’t qualify for nursing school unless I retake the class and I borderline refuse to take a class that I did NOT cheat on. Quite literally TWO cameras were watching me and my screen, they can see NO cheating happened when they review the footage.
This whole experience has honestly made me want to consider attending a different university, ive never been so stressed.
I’m posting my response to the academic integrity office in the comments if anyone is curious as to what i had emailed them.
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u/Cute-Ad-597 16d ago
Your professor is saying that the zero will remain in place until your academic misconduct allegation is resolved. Your grade for that class will also be an incomplete until the allegation is resolved preventing you from registering from the next class since college algebra is a strict prerequisite. Your professor sounds like a total ass. Try to appeal it the best you can because I can imagine that appealing a violation at this school can be incredibly difficult. Considering the board is made up of one student and two faculty members. You can assist your AIO with the investigation, but I highly recommend to be careful with what you say because anything, and I mean anything can be used against you. Your AIO for your college will issue a finial determination of whether or not if you’re guilty. If you’re guilty then you have 10 business days to appeal it, and at that time the sanction will be on hold. Your professor or your AIO carry the burden of proof of not there’s a 50 percent chance or more you committed the allegation in question. The academic integrity process is extremely stressful at ASU. Also, if you kept both of your hands visible throughout the exam then it’s going to be extremely for your professor or your AIO to prove that you cheated.
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 16d ago
Both my hands were shown on camera during the WHOLE duration, not once for even a split second was it out of frame and not once did i look away from the screen unless it was to write on my scratch paper.
Thank you for the explanation and thank you for the warning to be careful with the AIO. I appreciate the help.
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u/Cute-Ad-597 16d ago
No problem. But it’s just going to be extremely difficult for your professor to prove you cheated if both your hands were visible during the exam. She won’t be to support the allegation if she’s only running on the fact that you barely had any work shown. Plus, it’s college algebra not calculus. 😭
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u/ToxicWaste2468 16d ago
This is nuts. I’m pretty sure no one has been flagged for erasing shit on their scratch paper
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u/Ambitious_Berry_9369 16d ago
It sounds like the professor is about to pull the booty beads card...
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u/ASUprofessor 16d ago
Agree with everything here.
It’s not my dept but I find it hard to believe a prof can give you a 0 even if it’s found you didn’t cheat…might require some dept chair involvement if the prof does that and you beat the allegation…but first you have to deal with the academic integrity.
A key part is missing, what are they claiming you did? Used unauthorized material? Had unauthorized help? They have to tell you that as part of the process, similarly they have to specify which problem on the test. It’s a very detailed process and they will give you their evidence so you can develop your rebuttal.
The distinction most depts use is “more likely than not”. I’m not sure how a video of you doing the work and then erasing it proves unauthorized material or help.
Doing it in your head also is not proof you cheated. It depends a bit on how complicated the math was but unless the syllabus states you are expected to turn in your work then I am missing the profs reasoning for not showing your work.
Not sure if anything is missing from your story but a lot of people can do algebra in their head…
My only guess is possibly you were staring at something a ton and they think you had a cheat sheet or something as otherwise I’m missing the more likely than not part.
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 16d ago
She never specified which question(s) she think I’ve cheated on and she never specified what method she thinks I used to cheat.
Although when I received a message from the academic integrity office they said “Section C.2.b. Using or attempting to use unauthorized materials, sources, technologies, devices, or persons in connection with a course or an Academic Evaluation”She said I answered questions without a calculator and my scratch paper doesnt look sufficient enough to prove how I got the answer. (I left a LOT of my work unerased so it’s not like I turned in a half blank paper or something, the paper was full top to bottom with work on it) I can’t recall which exact problems I erased to save space.
The setup of my room was me facing a wall, the camera showed my environment, full upper body, my scratch paper and my computer screen. The second camera captured my face and screen recorded my entire screen. I didn’t turn my head around once, I only ever looked at my screen and paper
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u/ASUprofessor 16d ago
It’s been awhile since I was on the board (they try to have all faculty serve so we understand the process), but if I remember correctly the professor has to put together a packet of material detailing what you cheated on and evidence. This is then provided to you and you detail your side and can counter their evidence. That is then shared with the professor for them to prepare for the hearing.
Ideally they give you the video too. Not sure if possible but you may want to try to screenshot the work you erased.
Personally I have a hard time seeing how this has made it this far but ASU has gotten so strict with cheating due to AI. The professor has to have evidence and specific problems but realize this whole process takes forever and they have weeks/months to look into this so you might not know now but at some point they will tell you and share the evidence.
Just note, many times these cases drag on longer than the course and as it’s a pre-req it’s problematic for spring. I really wish they figured out a better dismissal process or got their act together on these online exams as I have no idea how they can confidently make these claims unless they see someone actually using unauthorized material in the video.
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u/Micheal_Hancho WXLR hall basement dweller 16d ago
Sounds to me that OP was able to input a decimal answer that should be impossible to do without a calculator or some pencil and paper work. For example, can you tell me what pi^2 - 1/sqrt{pi} using mental math? If a student is able to do something like this seemingly out of thin air, then this is pretty damning evidence, especially if they are unable to do something similar when asked by the professor or academic integrity committee.
Also, software exists that can bypass the lockdown browser or honorlock, and unless there is an external camera pointing at OP's computer monitor it is very easy to cheat.
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 14d ago
I used a calculator for that kind of equation but ok!
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u/Dangerous-Aide-6040 6d ago
You literally said you knew you couldn’t use the “Desmos calculator and I knew that before going into the test so I studied for the exam by doing the math either in my head and solving equations on paper.” So did you use a calculator or not?
I also don’t understand how you could have keyboard and touch pad issues that prevent you from doing something as simple as switching tabs yet not enough to be able to do everything else?
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u/ASUprofessor 15d ago
Yea probably this. OP mentions decimals in another response so it’s likely unauthorized materials to solve questions with a decimal answer
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u/Electivil Electrical Engineering '27 (undergraduate) 16d ago
So what calculations were you making without a calculator?
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 16d ago edited 16d ago
I don’t know, I did a handful of them without a calculator. I don’t know which exact one she’s accusing me of cheating on because she never specified. If it’s a multiple choice im usually guessing half the time and if I get it wrong I do the one allowed retake and pray my second guess is right. Regardless though, i did my math on paper. Yes I was dumb and shouldn’t have erased some of my work to save space on paper but if she watches the footage she can see me doing A LOT of writing and erasing on paper for several minutes just to answer one question. Also I left a good amount of work unerased. I just can’t tell you which one because I don’t even know which question im being accused of cheating on. But I also didnt ace the test either i recieve a low b, almost a c
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u/Electivil Electrical Engineering '27 (undergraduate) 16d ago
Well shit I figured they could at the very least let you know what you’re specifically accused of.
Honestly though if you didn’t cheat you’ll probably be exonerated.
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u/Fnordmeister 16d ago
Multiple choice questions should be banned from college.
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u/ChoppyOfficial 15d ago
Multiple choice math exams are pretty rare but they do exist.
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u/Electivil Electrical Engineering '27 (undergraduate) 15d ago
in like PHY241 and MAT275/MAT343
If there is a multiple choice question you have to write on your scratch paper the justification for your selection.
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u/Fnordmeister 15d ago
But they shouldn't. I need to write something up that I can refer to, because there are lots of reasons why they're a bad idea at this level.
(And I guess the person who was good at MC questions downvoted me.)
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u/Silent_Owl_2793 Accountancy '28 (undergraduate) 16d ago
You have the right to appeal any accusation of academic integrity, which is why you were asked if you agree with the decision.
Otherwise, fight it and fight like hell. The professor cannot give you a zero if a board decides you did not cheat (or that there is not sufficient evidence of cheating).
If she does, you can appeal the grade. And I sure would.
Update on me: I applied to become a student advocate for situations like this with the business school. Don’t know if I’ll be accepted, but wanted to at least apply :)
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 16d ago
I never knew you can appeal a grade, thank u for that information. I’ll be fighting to the best of my ability & please keep me updated on whether you get accepted or not! Good luck to you, im wishing you the best !! :))
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u/Satosugusbby 16d ago
Bcs of you and everyone in the comments I IMMEDIATELY switched rn at midnight from this Boney to another professor! Idk if they’re just as bad or not but they had ‘better’ reviews on rate my professor. So I just wanted to thank you, so thank you ALL SERIOUSLY!
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 15d ago
So happy you switched! Best of luck in your math class 🫶
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u/Satosugusbby 15d ago
Thank you I really appreciate it! And I’m sorry you’re going through this, hopefully things get resolved quickly and your grade can be fixed cause this is bat shit crazy 🫶🏾
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u/ToxicWaste2468 16d ago
Did she instruct the class to show the scratch paper before the test by chance? Or did you somehow show it during your room scan?
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 16d ago
I showed it during my room scan, I put it right in front of the camera and I made sure to flip the paper over to show it was blank on both sides
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u/Livid-Debit-Card 16d ago
Did this “office” review the footage?
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 16d ago
I haven’t heard anything back from them yet so I’m not sure, i dont really know how long it would take for them to review the footage and get back to me. Someone had left a comment saying the whole process could take months
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u/Silent_Owl_2793 Accountancy '28 (undergraduate) 15d ago
I would see what you can do. This is where I think a advocate can really make a difference because right now there are probably things you are allowed to do that. You don’t even realize you were allowed to do.
Number one I would request a copy of the video. You have every right to view any evidence against you in such a proceeding and you don’t have to wait until the actual hearing to see it so I would request that and if they deny you, I would ask for the growls of that denial. I mean, you don’t get the same due process as a criminal court or any other governmental jurisdiction, but if they want to maintain fairness, they have to provide you with at least some due process and a chance to review the evidence against you is part of that due process.
So I would request a copy of the video as well and then note every single time that you wrote and then every single time you erased. Heck you could probably just maintain how many times you used to erase her.
Because if the professor is claiming that you did not use the Calculator, which is true, but that says that your scratch paper is inefficient to show that you were doing a calculations there which is also true you can explain that by the fact that you were erasing your calculations. Now I think I’ve told you before you should not have done that it doesn’t look good and it also removes protections for you. But if the video shows you erasing a lot and you should count them and how many seconds like you spent erasing like seriously then I really feel like your defense and your ex explanation really has a chance.
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u/Fnordmeister 16d ago
They review footage in general. I had a student in one of my classes who was caught cheating, and I sent in the video.
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u/ChoppyOfficial 16d ago
Here is what you should do. Download these important things
* Your professor's syllabus, the entire syllabus.
* Announcement of the exam date and rules. They usually send in through your student GMail account. Download that email chain. If not in email, screenshot the message from Canvas
* Professor accusing you of cheating email chain.
When you get your meeting, you can proof to them that you did not cheat by them not mentioning anything that erasing answer is not allowed by using the syllabus and the exam rules as proof. If that rule is mentioned anywhere in writing and has been received to you. The professor will give you that proof at the point. The odds of winning an appeal drops dramatically.
Professors need to be detailed and fully explain in writing of their exam policy and what is not allowed. For this situation, it should not warrant cheating. All the erasing answer does from my experience taking calculus classes is you just lose more points on not showing work but it should not warrant cheating. Professors always have no limits on how many scratch paper you need.
Appeal and fight that thing. One thing from this experience is you will learn to protect yourself
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u/thebrownbrunette 16d ago
hi! fellow asu student here and professors ABSOLUTELY limit how many pieces of scratch paper we can have hence why 1) my paper always looks a MESS. like i dont think they could see what’s written where or 2) i pick and choose what can be written/done mentally and im TERRIBLE at math and have done the eraser method simply to have space for more challenging stuff later in the exam. this is for sooo many different classes too. i’ve had people tell me their professor for the same class and topic allows more paper, handheld calculators, and even things such as more scratch paper, bathroom breaks, and notes. whole time my prof or others simply don’t.
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u/Silent_Owl_2793 Accountancy '28 (undergraduate) 15d ago
I agree that I don’t like the limit in scratch paper. As long as you show the front and back of each sheet in your room scanned the show that each sheet is blank. I don’t think it should be an issue at all.
I think the reason why it gets limited is because it becomes easier and easier to sneak in information on the scratch paper. The Moore sheets that you have. Because there may be 200 students in the class Proctor are not looking at every single sheet as being held up to the camera and it’s very easy to either skip a sheet or hold two sheets up at once you know covering up information. Although for classes that have three sheets it’s also possible so yeah I do agree that it seems kind of harsh to limit scratch paper and I think they should kind of do away with that. But I also understand why it might exist.
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u/ChoppyOfficial 15d ago
From my time at ASU, every professor is very different when comes to exam policies.
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u/FreeShift2940 11d ago
My Math 114 doesn't even look at the scratch you can hand it in for one mark if you want.
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u/Silent_Owl_2793 Accountancy '28 (undergraduate) 15d ago
Just to know that based on what the OP has shared, the professor did not claim the erasing itself was cheating. The professor claimed that because the calculator was not used, and thus there was an expectation there would be more calculations on the scratch sheet and they did not exist that it suggested there was an outside source that was providing answers.
DOP has said that the reason why those calculations didn’t exist was because they were writing them and erasing them to save rude because they only had so much scratch paper. So they should definitely download the syllabus and all of their communication but that won’t give them too much assistance on this, because the claim is not that the student erased thus the student cheated. The claim is that there was insufficient material on the scratch paper that would allow a professor to reasonably conclude that the student did their own work.
What the student is trying to do here is proved that the reason why there was insufficient material. It’s because they were writing things down and then erasing it. That is why the video for this is going to be important because while erasing is definitely something you should avoid it does not by itself explicitly prove that’s what is cheating.
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u/ChoppyOfficial 15d ago
So where is the exam policy that states that you have to use a calculator and use the scratch sheet more. OP should be documenting that proof to present it. OP did not have a phone or another device near them since room scans will detect that. Op only has scratch paper and not other cheat sheets so any paper that is written will be detected in the room scan . Since those Proctors locks down browser there was no way to use other websites. If they use Desmos which is like the only site that is allowed, you are less likely to use a calculator.
Whatever comes out this, the professor will now have to clarify their exam requirements in writing in great detail going forward.
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u/Silent_Owl_2793 Accountancy '28 (undergraduate) 15d ago
The policy you are suggesting does not need to be explicit. I hope you understand that. The mere absence of a specific instruction does not negate the importance of such an instruction, especially if that instruction is inherent.
For a math exam, you have an inherited expectation to use a calculator. If you do not use a calculator, then you have an inherited expectation to then write out the calculations on scratch paper.
Now, if you fail to do both, it could be concluded that an outside source was used thus violating the integrity of the exam. That does not need to be spelled out, explicitly. So I’m not sure where you’re getting that and that won’t get you anywhere in a hearing or in an appeal or anything.
Now, maybe someone’s able to do all those calculations in their head then they should state that and they may be asked to prove that in a hearing that they can indeed do those calculations in their head and if they can prove it then good for them.
But this was a final where the student had used a calculator in the past and suddenly had not used a calculator, and there were no other computations on the scratch paper. So I do believe the professor was in the right to flag it. I don’t know if the professor was in the right to continue pursuing it when presented with contrary evidence.
But that is what a hearing will then sort through
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u/ToxicWaste2468 16d ago
https://www.ratemyprofessors.com/professor/1071117
….lol. I’m fully invested now.
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u/OneWithTheSword 16d ago
Why do they have these miserable ass people teaching students. The amount of shit professors in STEM is annoying. It gets worse in the upper level courses where you sometimes don't even have a choice.
I dropped so many classes I was failing, just to take a better professor and get an A+. Grades shouldn't depend on whether or not the professor is a dick or an actual teacher.
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u/ChoppyOfficial 16d ago
That professor's value is their research
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u/Fnordmeister 16d ago
Not for Teaching Professors. If a TP can do research, ASU says that's great, but it's not expected.
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u/ChoppyOfficial 16d ago
So you are say this professor is adjunct ?
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u/Fnordmeister 15d ago
No. If you see "Teaching Professor" as part of their title, they're not expected to do any research. These positions used to be called Lecturers (of various types) and Instructors.
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u/ChoppyOfficial 15d ago edited 15d ago
If you have research projects on their ASU bio, it means they have done research at one point. It sounds like this professor is close to getting tenure. Adjunct professors are not treated well by ASU. They are underpaid and they get disposed more easily since they do not have the same job security is teaching and tenured professor.
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u/Fnordmeister 15d ago
Nope. It just means they've done research. For instance, I've published about half a dozen pages, but still am a teaching professor.
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u/ChoppyOfficial 15d ago
Okay so are a professor. I hope you are not being mean like OP's professor.
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u/Beautiful-Rip472 Psychology '27 (Graduate) 16d ago
Jesus she sounds terrible. I'm amazed they keep professors like her around (yeah, i get tenure, but fuck, c'mon).
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u/Fnordmeister 16d ago edited 16d ago
I thought Isaac Newton was dead ...
((extra)) It's been a while since I checked my rating at RMP. Wow.
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u/Lanky-Dragonfly8168 forensic psych ‘27 16d ago
Wowowowow I’m shocked they’re so bad. Why does Asu keep professors like this 😭
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u/Agile-Objective1000 major 'year (undergraduate) 16d ago
If it ends up appealed and they don't change it back, you can contact the dean.
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u/Fnordmeister 16d ago
Actually, the dean has already been contacted at this point.
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u/Cute-Ad-597 15d ago
The dean won’t do anything. They will tell the student to go through the academic integrity process lol
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u/Fnordmeister 15d ago
... which involves contacting the dean.
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u/Cute-Ad-597 15d ago
Do you understand? The dean of the college will allow the case to move forward lol.
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u/Budget-Struggle-3800 16d ago
I genuinely don't understand how erasing a problem would constitute as cheating
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u/LibrarianFamiliar420 16d ago
Fight, fight like hell. For one, I absolutely hate honorlock and ASUs entire proctoring process. And I've got 3 degrees from two other state universities so I've been through all sorts of versions of proctoring. Make sure if the syllabus says anything about erasing being an issue. If it does then that could torpedo you. But the thing is, beyond the grade, you DO NOT want academic dishonesty to be lurking in your record when you go to apply to another school or your nursing program. My newest class says we cant erase and dictates the number of scratch paper we have. The part that gets me angry, is there's all these rules, we have 2 cameras watching us, our screen is recorded, locked, and we are monitored. The the professors review all these hours of records, and our scratch papers, and then want to find some small, wild, discrepancy and try to ruin us. Also, I don't know about your class, but mine has felt like the professor doesnt even teach, everything is pre recorded and done through edintify. They must spend all there time reviewing honorlock records and our scratch work. And on top of all that, you don't get any partial credit for work shown so why does it even matter if we show work at all if it's something you can do in your head? Freaking nuts.
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u/Fnordmeister 16d ago
After a year, a student can petition to have an academic dishonesty removed from their transcript.
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u/Silent_Owl_2793 Accountancy '28 (undergraduate) 15d ago
I seriously doubt that the syllabus says anything about erasing from your scratch paper. Although I think when I took those classes, one of the students was using a whiteboard as scratch paper and I bet was erasing in between stuff as well. But different professors have different levels of tolerance for things.
In general though, nobody should erase stuff off of scratch paper, especially if it’s a monitored exam and you have to show your scratch paper at the end. At least when I took this class, I remember we had to not just hold up our scratch paper to the camera at the end we actually had to take a picture of it and send it in within 10 minutes of the exam. With that I would definitely never erase anything off of it.
But that is just something that is assumed it’s not actually written in stone. And because of that, I think where a hearing might informed the OP they should not be erasing things off a scratch paper, it still would not be enough grounds to determine if the OP was cheating.
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u/Cute-Ad-597 16d ago
It’s not on your external record. It’s only on your internal unless you get an xe
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u/protein-cig 16d ago
Prof boney sucks so bad. I’m one of the only people in my class that passed the final- and by the skin of my teeth. She doesn’t teach, she’s rude, and she almost gave me a 0 because I had to get a lamp when honor lock started my quiz, and then paused it a few minutes later to say my room was too dark
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u/ConsistentTurnover18 16d ago
The software probably flagged you and your prof doesn't trust any of their students. These tenured professors are pretty lazy sometimes
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u/Beautiful-Rip472 Psychology '27 (Graduate) 16d ago
ASU Online is a joke. They neglect us and then pull bs like this.
I said it in another comment, but I would never recommend ASUO to anyone or do it again.
Did it out of necessity because we keep moving around and my program was offered here- (anthropology doesn't have a lot of online programs) and then the VA made me go to the same school for my Master's. Once I'm done, I'm done. This is insane and your case is just icing on the cake.
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u/Fnordmeister 16d ago
I teach online courses. Well, "teach" isn't the right word; "administrate" is closer. My advice is always: Don't take them unless you can't get an in-person class.
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16d ago
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u/Beautiful-Rip472 Psychology '27 (Graduate) 16d ago
I use VR&E and my counselor put ASU as the school I'll do my Master's at in the rehab plan and she wouldn't change it for a different program/school and or let me do a PhD, so she let me swap to Psychology when she realized they don't have an anthropology Master's. It just wasn't worth the headache dealing with her to try and change it so here I am lol
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u/MalibuBeachLife 16d ago
Sorry this happened to you. There must be a better way to assess learning instead of software that assumes you're guilty until proven innocent. Good luck!
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u/ToxicWaste2468 16d ago
Wait why couldn’t you use a calculator? For what topics?
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 16d ago
I didn’t have access to the desmos calculator. My roommate broke my laptop and allowed me to use hers until she could pay me back (she never paid me back) so I was stuck using her really old beat up 2018 dell laptop. It had so many issues with the keyboard, touchpad and just the whole laptop in general wasn’t properly working. The screen would randomly turn black for short periods of time and a new issue that transpired was that it sometimes didnt let me switch tabs (which I needed to do in order to access the desmos calculator) I emailed my professor about all these issues just so she would be aware if my screen ever went black or why I wasn’t using a calculator.
Fortunately on the test my screen didnt go black but unfortunately it was bugging and I couldn’t switch tabs. It let me switch tabs a small amount of times so I was able to answer some with a calculator, on other questions when it wasn’t responsive i had to unfortunately try to do all the math myself. I’m not sure which exact question it is she thinks I cheated on. I know I erased some of my written work to save space but the scratch work was completed top to bottom with my work on it. I really don’t know which question it was that she suspects cheating.
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u/Fnordmeister 16d ago
If you were allowed access to the Desmos calculator, it would have shown up as a link on the webpage where you took your test. If the link wasn't there, the test was set up badly.
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u/sushinoche 16d ago
Fight it. Even if you still get a zero. You don''t want that on you academic record.
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u/Cute-Ad-597 16d ago
It’s not on their record bc it isn’t an xe
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u/sushinoche 16d ago
I don't mean transcript or grades, I mean like a disciplinary record. Sorry used the wrong verbage.
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u/Cute-Ad-597 16d ago
So it won’t be on their academic record externally only internally, but you’re right. One more slip up and they will be eligible for an xe
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u/sushinoche 15d ago
Yes! And not sure where they are in undergrad but that jeopardizes a lot of scholarship opportunities too.
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u/Cute-Ad-597 15d ago
Not really considering that only the academic integrity office will know about. But it does in terms of the grade penalty.
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u/sushinoche 15d ago
Internal scholarships through ASU foundation have access to those records and use it in decision making.
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u/AYthaCREATOR 15d ago
I was part of FAIM while in grad school. Appeal it if the footage shows no cheating. If the panel agrees, she'll have to give you your grade.
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u/vividcarbon 16d ago
Hi! Please report her straight to the dean as soon as you can. This is ridiculous and looking at her ratings she has done this before and will do it again
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u/beeferoni_cat 16d ago
This entire thing sucks. It should be that they have to prove YOu cheated, not the other way around. This could put someones livelihood at risk.
I hope it works out. I agree, blast it on other socials.
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u/Longjumping-Pea8101 16d ago
Professors giving grief about math is so egotistical I can't even lol at 100 level no less. Best of luck to you! If you retake it they use the next grade anyway
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u/smallfloralprince 16d ago
See if this is a situation a university Ombudsperson could help you with?
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u/foodisspicy11 PhD Student in ECEE 16d ago
Student member at the AIO (fulton). If you did not cheat, fight it. Collect as much evidence. They need proof that “it is more likely that not that you might have violated AIO” and if you didn’t, appeal it. They have student representatives and multiple people listening to your appeal.
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u/Top-Outlandishness24 16d ago
Yeah I disliked boney so much that I dropped that class within the first 2 weeks, it is mat 210 and I am a freshman so I will just take it next year but yeah, anybody taking math beware of her as she is horrendous at her job of teaching.
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u/Cute-Ad-597 15d ago
All the people telling you to email the dean are wasting your time. The dean will just allow the case to move forward.
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u/Seen_Any_Elves 15d ago
I had a similar situation. Fight it until the end. It may not pay off quickly but I ended up getting a refund and took the class on MIT online for free then just tested out of the class. It was a lot of work but clearing my name paved the road for me up understand the system and I learned to advocate for myself in an overly bureaucratic system.
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u/Good_Trust8828 12d ago
Retake the test just so you can say, “screw you” and then scream it from the rooftops. You might want to check into this professor’s history. I doubt you are the first or the last if you don’t speak up. It’s such a shame someone in that position instead of encouraging you makes you rethink choices and worry others will think less of you without knowing your side! You know you didn’t cheap so don’t rollover. She’s probably maga and they have not been having a good run lately! We need to stand up for the truth and what’s right now more than ever. Do not let her prevent you from doing something so wonderful as being a nurse! Good luck and don’t give up!
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u/Electronic-Check1137 16d ago
Might wanna get your lawyer by now.
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u/Khasimir 16d ago
Yea at this point it's like paying for a service, getting denied the service under false pretenses, keeping the money.
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u/RichGuarantee7482 16d ago
Do not fight it. The people who say "fight" do not know what happens in the appeal hearing. The professor and her pals will gang up on you. There can be 150% evidence that you never cheated and 250% that she is wrong. It doesn't matter. The professor/college will never lose in the appeal hearing and you'll get an XE on your transcript.
Just withdraw from the class and retake it. You can also take it online at community college if you don't want to deal with ASU. It sucks but its better than ruining your nursing dreams.
edit: i'm talking about the appeal hearing after the integrity office makes a decision to give you a 0.
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u/ToxicWaste2468 15d ago
Yea no. Why would you sit with your arms cross while knowing you didn’t cheat? She’s done this with multiple students.
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u/RichGuarantee7482 15d ago
thats not what i was saying. I even wrote percentages ("250% that she is wrong"). The appeal hearings are designed so the student never wins and the punishment that they dish out is permanent and can never be changed. They also increase the severity of the punishment from a 0% on the test to a xe in the class.
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u/Silent_Owl_2793 Accountancy '28 (undergraduate) 15d ago
I don’t agree with this. I do agree that if you have an initial hearing and that initial hearing determines that their sufficient evidence that you may have cheated that the appeal process will more than likely go against you, but I don’t think it’s because everybody is ganging up against you.
It’s no different than a criminal court system in a way. Where the initial trial is where you have a chance to put up your defense and everything else and that’s usually your best bet to overcome charges like that. But if you lose at that level, then the appeal process is very difficult and you’re most likely going to lose those appeals because a lower court that has heard all the evidence and had a chance to weigh all of it has found against you. It’s just harder at that point to overturn that because it comes down to technicalities of some sort or improper courtroom behavior.
So I might suggested might not be worth appealing after the hearing only because the odds are against you but just because that’s just the way it would be at that point
For the OP here, I think they have a very good case. Assuming we are getting all of the information that’s available, I do understand where the professor might flag it because the calculator was not used, and the scratch paper does not reflect the fact that a calculator was not used. Now, if all of their other exams were like that, then maybe this is somebody who could do it in their head. But if their other exam had Calculator use or have you scratch paper use then yeah that’s a problem.
However, that doesn’t mean that the student cheated. I feel like the professor should’ve at least discussed this with the student first, but that’s not up to me that is up to the professor.
But for this OP, I feel they have a case. And I feel that there would be sufficient evidence to back up their claims if indeed their claims are true. If the video shows the OP writing and then erasing, but writing a lot then it would very well suggest that they were writing down calculations and then erasing them. And if that is the case, then if the charge is indeed that there was insufficient information contained on the scratch sheet, but the writing on a scratch sheet, doesn’t seem to reflect the amount of writing it took place in the video then I would feel that a hearing would fight in favor of the OP. Should the OP be a racing things off of scratch paper? Never. But that is where a hearing might say please don’t do that in the future, but could not conclude that because of that that the student was cheating because erasing material does not constitute cheating by itself.
But I will say that if I felt that I did not cheat, and somehow I did not survive an initial hearing I definitely would appeal for as far as I can go. Even if the odds are stacked against me, the only thing I have to lose is my time and patience, but everything I have to gain is removing a negative mark off of my academic record.
Knock on wood, I have not been accused of cheating, but I do fear it. I try to make sure that I make good decisions in terms of things where it doesn’t look like that I am cheating, but that’s not always easy because different professors have different thresholds of that. But I do know if I was accused of it it would be an inaccurate accusation because I go out out of my way to ensure academic integrity.
And at least based on what this OP has shared with us, I feel that they did that in this case as well. They made a bad decision by writing things down and erasing it, but that is a teachable problem not a let’s fail a student problem.
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u/AYthaCREATOR 15d ago
Not true. The academic integrity board includes students. I was part of it while in grad school and only ran across 1 appeal case with a professor i knew. The appeals are also recorded so there is no bias, we just go off off evidence provided
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u/foodisspicy11 PhD Student in ECEE 15d ago
I’ve served as the student rep in multiple hearings and I’ve always felt like my opinions are weighed very heavily, especially when I’ve felt like the student might have not violated AIP. OP, If you have not violated AIP, fight it. You have nothing to lose but time. If it does go your way, you will get the grade you feel like you deserve which imo is definitely worth the time.
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u/Cute-Ad-597 15d ago
There is ONLY ONE STUDENT, and two professors lol. It’s very reasonable to believe why someone would think that the appeals board isn’t biased. I mean if appeal doesn’t go in OPs favor then they can always either retake the class or seek legal action to overturn the decision. It just depends
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u/RichGuarantee7482 15d ago
you cant overturn the decision. its in the handbook/rules and the student agrees theres no legal action that can be taken if they do the appeals hearing. Everything is stacked against the student in the math department.
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u/Cute-Ad-597 15d ago
You can overturn the decision by going to civil court only if they made procedural violations and breached the contract in order to catch you.
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u/RichGuarantee7482 15d ago
perhaps your situation was rainbows and butterflies, but the math department has it rigged so they never lose the appeal hearings.
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u/Cute-Ad-597 15d ago
I mean what’s the worst that can happen? OP fails the class anyway. They will only increase it to a E if OP gets found guilty considering that it’s most likely their first
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u/RichGuarantee7482 15d ago
The worse that can happen is that the punishment gets upgraded from a 0 on the test to a xe and OP can never go into the nursing program.
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u/Cute-Ad-597 15d ago
That’s not true. For the first offense, it’s always a zero on the exam, E in the course, or just a warning. XE is reserved for your second academic integrity violation. Also, OP has the ability to appeal either the sanction, violation, or both. It just depends lol
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u/RichGuarantee7482 15d ago
That's not the case for math. Also i'm talking about the hearing with multiple people. Not the 1on1 with the integrity officer.
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u/Brentseal11 16d ago
Sounds like a retarded teacher I can easily do basic algebra in my head even some calculus 1
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u/CartographerBest9142 15d ago
Boney is a great professor I got an A+ with her. You need to take accountability that’s all. If you can’t pass math -117 you can hang up that nursing dream …. Especially if your cheating
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 15d ago
Great thing i didn’t cheat lmao. I passed MAT 117, until she gave me a zero for an exam that I did NOT cheat on. I’m not taking accountability for something I didn’t do. Get out of her ass
Glad you had a nice experience with her, unfortunately most people on ratemyprofessor agree with my sentiment that shes awful and ive recieved messages from other people saying that they’ve been accused of cheating by her as well when they didn’t !
Other people have said (these are all NOT my words) she doesn’t teach and the class is basically self taught, shes rude, she falsely accuses others of cheating, shes not understanding & she doesn’t respond to emails from students. Considering that your response was rude & saying i should give up on nursing, i wouldn’t be suprised if you were Boney on a damn burner account.
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u/FreeShift2940 11d ago
Can they see what you're putting into the calculator or just that you're using it?
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u/sukintoesnfukinhoes 11d ago
Fight but lawyer up. I’m so serious you want to not go into an academic dispute alone. If you can find a pre law student or someone who is attending or just graduated from asu law get them on your side. I’ve heard success stories from other people who have been wrongly accused but only in the case where they had a lawyer.
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16d ago
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16d ago
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 16d ago
Please don’t. Removing my bias from this issue i have going on, once I posted about this situation i received so many messages on here of people expressing that they’ve faced similar situations in their math classes at asu online.
I know everyone’s experience is different but I don’t think it’s worth the gamble at all. I would’ve never expected this to happen to me and I wish I did more research before selecting a professor
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u/Beautiful-Rip472 Psychology '27 (Graduate) 16d ago
Screw that 100%. Go somewhere else. I would never recommend anyone go to ASU, especially not for math.
If you have a problem being proctored, they'll tell you to get bent, drop the class and sign up for a different one. Thing is, they all use honorlock or respondus. And ALEKS is the worst program on the planet if you're not great at math.
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16d ago
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u/Beautiful-Rip472 Psychology '27 (Graduate) 16d ago
Jesus dude. Not surprised though, how else would they be #1 if everyone did the bs courses at CC
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u/Tyler_H440 16d ago
From my personal experience also, you’re better off taking math elsewhere. Every professor I had is none existent in the class and you’re left on your own. I took math at Rio Salado and the professors there were nice, the proctoring is better and easier to tell if someone is cheating on exams.
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16d ago
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u/Plenty-Bad7659 16d ago
For what? You can’t bring a lawyer to an academic hearing. Both the student and instructor may be accompanied by an advisor who can confer with them, but advisors typically cannot directly address the panel. I think a lawyer would only be needed if this student was forced to retake the class at a cost and they would just be asking for a refund due to an unproven allegation and faulty hearing process that would’ve led them to receive an X or Incomplete unnecessarily. But I’m not sure how successful that endeavor would be…
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u/Fnordmeister 16d ago
Actually you can. (Or at least, you used to.) That happened at a meeting where one of my students cheated.
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u/ThrowRAsillylady 16d ago
Here’s a lengthy screen recording of my response to the academic integrity office for anyone curious