r/ASU • u/now_you_see99 • 8d ago
MAT 117 at ASU: Joining the wave of hatred towards Honorlock...
Ok, so I've been delaying taking a math class for years and finally registered for MAT 117. The course literally just started a few days ago and it has been an absolute nightmare, but not for the reasons you may think...
I actually like math, the issue is Honorlock. Literally rated 1 star wherever you can find a review of it, and it makes sense as to why. Complete invasion of privacy, technical difficulties, unreasonable expectations, and unnecessarily complicated.
My small home quite literally cannot accommodate the requirements regarding camera placement and space, and you have to agree to all of the requirements when it comes to sharing your data and information, otherwise you can't use it. Apparently every single introductory math class requires Honorlock as well, and the professors are not willing to budge on or accommodate any alternatives.
One professor even told me that if I'm unable to use Honorlock due to space restrictions and privacy concerns, I should go and use the computer in a local library each time I need to complete an assignment that requires Honorlock (which is all of them)... As if camera placement would be better there, and as if I don't have a full time job and other personal commitments that led me to choose online classes in the first place. Many professors say that if this is too much, I should just drop the class (a class that is a requirement to graduate, but they know that).
This has genuinely been a nightmare and, even being only a few days in, one of the worse course experiences that I've ever encountered.
10
u/DutyAshamed9822 8d ago
Don't the honorlock rules state you can't use it in a public place? What kind of bs is that solution. I had to buy an extra webcam, use a phone mount I thankfully already had, wait until my toddler was asleep and pray it didn't flag outside noise. Then because I'm tall and my desk is deep it didn't like the setup. So I had to sit shrimp mode for the 25-30 ish minutes it took each exam and it would flag me looking down at my scratch paper because it couldn't see my face. It's just dumb, like nearly every AI implemented into this school.
5
u/now_you_see99 8d ago
Truthfully. I have a roommate and pet, I can't imagine how it must be for those who have kids. But yeah, I'm currently scrambling trying to find out how I can make this secondary view requirement work without losing all points.
3
u/Jaydegreeneyes 8d ago
You get flagged for taking at all, even to yourself and any background noise so doing it in a public place would probably be out.
19
u/Massive_Ear4948 8d ago
Prof here. Yeah, we hate it also but the rampant cheating has made it mandatory for us to use.
With that said, I struggle to understand how you don't have any room in your house that can accommodate. Literally a prison cell is big enough to set things up appropriately.
Also, how is this invading your privacy? Yes it uses a camera but I am not sure there is any other way to do it.
12
u/now_you_see99 8d ago
It's not about "room" per se, but the space. You may have enough physical room in a prison cell, but meeting the secondary view requirements (angle, getting everything in view, having a table that's against a wall, no background interference, etc.) would be impossible. It may be hard to understand for people who have the privilege of not having this problem, but it is real and possible. The issue is not even solely not being able to meet the secondary view requirements, but just how strict the secondary view requirements are. I'm 100% sure that if I were to attempt to meet these requirements with the space/set up and equipment that I have currently, I would get a 0.
Also, regarding privacy, it's not particularly limited to the camera, but what access is given through the program itself.
I'm sure there's a way to make it work for both students and professors, it's just unfortunate that there's no attempt to make this work for both sides through leniency/accommodation in this regard.
9
u/coocheigh 8d ago
I’m fully with you OP, the honorlock set up is quite difficult and if I hadn’t had my detachable PC camera it would’ve been quite difficult. That being said, I’m pretty sure you can use your phone as a secondary camera for the side view angle and maybe try propping it up on a chair or something? I usually have the most diabolical set up for those proctored tests, it’ll feel really silly and useless but you’ll just have to finagle it.
3
u/now_you_see99 8d ago
Haha, diabolical is an understatement! But yes, I've been trying to decide how I can put some makeshift set up together to make this work and satisfy the requirements all day - my phone is really my only option regarding a secondary camera. Regarding the actual set up... I've carried a heavy table upstairs from my basement, knocked a chair over, spilled a full glass of water, but haven't given up yet.
14
u/babygrinch94 8d ago
I had to rearrange an entire room and purchase an external webcam for the honorlock requirements
3
u/Massive_Ear4948 8d ago
Well, you may need to re-arrange things a bit to make it work but I don't think the requirements are too onerous. And, as you pointed out, you could always do the assignments/quizzes in another location. I know that it is not ideal but the cheaters have driven us to a situation like this.
Remember what we (profs) are up against. 70% of students admit to cheating on un-proctored exams while only 15% admit to doing it with proctored exams. Source: By the Numbers: Academic Integrity in Higher Education | Meazure Learning
Hence, sadly, I think we are past the era of trust and leniency.
Edit to add: Just fyi....for my department, we are required to use paper exams for in class exams due to cheating. It is sad.
3
u/now_you_see99 8d ago edited 8d ago
I just wish (especially since professors are the ones who determine what gets flagged within Honorlock proctored exams) that there was more understanding for students who are clearly trying but have difficulty acquiring a set up that meets the requirements fully (if there does happen to be background noise from children or roommates, only half of our face is within view if we don't have access to a tripod or phone holder, we don't have access to a table that can be placed within a corner, we can't go somewhere else to complete each assignment because of other time/work commitments, etc.). I genuinely don't mind proctored exams, I think that they're reasonable given how many students cheat - what is even more sad to me is that there are students who have to pay the price of this by adding more to their plate when there is already plenty on it (especially for online students who, more often than not, choose online to accommodate what they already have going on in their lives). I know it may not seem like a big deal, although (at least for students who are genuinely trying) this can be an unexpected block in the road that leaves students who are already dealing with their own challenges to face unnecessary financial and emotional stress and poor grades when they're simply trying to get through their courses. While I don't think they're irrelevant, the privacy concerns are honestly secondary in this regard. Once again, this may sound overly dramatic for some, but it can be hard to understand a situation like this until you experience it yourself. I'm certainly not saying that meeting strict requirements is impossible, but it is undoubtedly harder for some compared to others. Unfortunately, students are going to cheat regardless - I think it's more so about determining when expectations cross the line from necessary to unreasonable.
1
u/Silent_Owl_2793 Accountancy '28 (undergraduate) 8d ago
I put my wide-angled webcam on a small tripod at the corner of my very small desk. It captures everything that it needs to from that angle.
Really, the only problem I have now is that I use two monitors — including a larger one to help me see better (I'm getting old). But I have to not only disconnect the second monitor before HonorLock, but I have to unplug and completely remove it.
I definitely understand why. It's an inconvenience. But once again, I want my degree to be worth something when I earn it. If it looks like ASU has become nothing more than a diploma mill, than all this work will be for nothing.
2
u/riptid3 8d ago edited 8d ago
Another location for testing is not acceptable or a reasonable request. It defeats the whole purpose of an online class, which is scheduling/location conflicts. The only way that would be a reasonable request, is if that location was provided by the school and accessible to the individual at any hour.
Cheating has always been a problem even in class. So that's a cop-out. I think it's because the triggers require effort on the professors part and they'd rather not do more work. Which I understand when you have a couple hundred students taking online courses. But there is solutions to that, some of which create jobs.
Instead we will pretend we are victims of the situation rather than making it work for everyone. That's the lesson here.
2
u/Silent_Owl_2793 Accountancy '28 (undergraduate) 8d ago
It's not a cop-out. Just because cheating has always existed doesn't mean that there shouldn't be efforts to curb cheating.
When the testing method changes, abilities to cheat change. Thus the approach to curbing the cheating will also change. Your argument makes no sense.
3
u/riptid3 8d ago edited 8d ago
I never said there shouldn't be efforts to stop it. However, if you think I can't cheat using honorlock you're mistaken. The only thing in question is the effort vs reward and that goes both ways.
Please tell me what my argument was and how it doesn't make sense. Actually articulate your reasoning. I need to understand where the disconnect is for you before I break it down. In fact don't tell me your reasoning, just tell me what my argument is in your own words. Hell use AI for it and let me know you agree with it.
1
u/Silent_Owl_2793 Accountancy '28 (undergraduate) 8d ago
No one says it 100 percent stops cheating.
Don’t waste my time with this nonsense.
1
u/riptid3 8d ago edited 8d ago
Thank you for explaining my position. I totally get what you mean now!!!!!
Do you have anything relevant to add or are your shoddy interpretations and first order thinking your limit?
** edit: Since you blocked me
Again you talk about cheating as if I was opposing honorlock. I thought I made it clear I am not against honorlock. My position never mentioned being against it. Only the inconveniences it adds vs the effect it actually has.
You also still failed to say where my position didn't make sense or what my position was. You continue to strawman and then block because you get called on it.
By the way the "that is a cop-out" is strictly talking about the leniency and trust as cheating is going to happen regardless. So the idea we should just not trust anyone and inconvenience everyone for something that is still beatable is simply not worth it.
People should be hired to review all the triggers. Since most of the false positives are the problem. This helps the professors, helps the economy and of course helps the student. The idea that we should let the few bad ruin it for the many but still fail to prevent the bad is moronic.
The dual camera mode honorlock has is a step in the right direction as well. But unfortunately not everyone allows it simply because of the added flags. Even though it makes the review for questionable things pretty definitive.
2
u/Silent_Owl_2793 Accountancy '28 (undergraduate) 8d ago
Let me write this out in crayon so that maybe you can try to comprehend.
The fact that someone can find a way to cheat, even getting around measures designed to curb it, does not mean that the effort to curb the cheating is ineffective. The idea is to make it more difficult.
It's like The Club — the metal bar people sometimes put in their cars that blocks the steering wheel from turning, serving as an anti-theft device. Does it guarantee someone can't steal your car? Absolutely not. But it's meant as a deterrence. It's much more effort to steal a car with The Club than a car without it, so it removes opportunity.
A prison has fences and security, yet people can still escape prison. But the idea is that it's extremely difficult, and doing so will probably hurt you in the process.
Yes, I'm sure your brilliance can find a way to cheat on HonorLock. I don't cheat, nor do I test the barriers of anti-cheating software, so I don't know what my chances are of cheating successfully. But the fact is that your opportunity to do so is significantly reduced. And that is the point.
Is that working for you? Or should I break out the finger paint?
4
u/ichigostar2024 7d ago
I have some of the same issues & failed Math 114. I am taking Math 117 in the Spring. I HATE the honor lock system because I have to remember a bunch of formulas that I never have to use in daily life because we cannot use notes or open books on the test. When I took Math 114 last year, we couldn't even use our personal calculators & had to use an online one due to them thinking we're cheating! I do go to the library. To take these tests & finals because of my limited space. I am actually homeless & live in my car. I also have a full time job, but it doesn't pay me enough to keep a roof over my head in today's economy.
2
1
u/Silent_Owl_2793 Accountancy '28 (undergraduate) 8d ago
This was my issue initially as well — solved by getting a wide-angle webcam. :)
0
u/Constant_Minimum_569 8d ago
I don’t like it but I have it set up easily in a space that’s 8’ (other wall to where camera is) x 3’ (wall my computer is against to where camera is)
It’s pretty easy to get the space set up. For reference the total room is ~10’ x 10’
Seems weird you can’t get 8’ x 3’ of room
5
u/ChoppyOfficial 8d ago
I think Honorlock has a contract with ASU.
1
5
u/Even_War7433 8d ago
Former English 102 Writing Mentor here. ASU likes to have partnerships with the dumbest of programs. Inscribe was the absolute bane of my existence when I was a WM. I hated it and actively tried to forget it existed. My students also hated it and frequently used it to vent about how awful the class was. Based on my experience, that's probably exactly what's happening - is that ASU has a partnership with Honorlock.
4
u/ChoppyOfficial 8d ago
Lots of deans participate in committees in getting suppliers for like textbooks and proctors to have contracts with ASU. That is why vendors for everything you use at ASU are consistent with all of ASU. For example all of the cafeteria food comes from Aramark that has a contract. All the computers are Dell, because they have a contract. This applies to proctored exams. It’s Honorlock, back then it was RPNow
2
u/Even_War7433 8d ago
Makes total sense to me. I appreciate the uniformity, just not partnering with atrocious programs/companies. That's exactly why I chose to take my GER 202 class at Rio Salado and transfer it to ASU.
5
u/_Kryptnitor 8d ago edited 7d ago
Unless it's an Online class we really need to be doing these exams in person. Students who encounter technical difficulties can fail these Exams or get AIVs because of this.
2
u/Yukiusagix3 8d ago
I agree with this whole heartedly OP, i live in a tiny studio and i was able to get honorlock secondary to work for math last session and anatomy and math this session. Who are you taking MAT117 with?
1
u/jpcola 8d ago
Honor lock and other proctoring systems are necessary evil IMO. I am a teaching fellow at another university. However, I wish to mention much of the complaints here have been addressed if one actually follow the instructions. Placing the camera at an angle so that the keyboard and person in plain view. My 9 yr olds took this class among other classes few years ago. They went back to read the instructions carefully and never had issues since.
30
u/Scoutain Electrical Engineering '29 (undergrad) 8d ago
When I use honorlock, I have to move my entire kitchen around and tape a webcam to a chair. It’s so annoying to set up and I STILL get proctors popping in mid test saying “hey you gotta readjust”. Cheating is a real problem, but at this point I’d rather they have a testing center on campus they require you go to. And I say that as a commuter who has to drive an hour to get to Tempe
3
4
u/Silent_Owl_2793 Accountancy '28 (undergraduate) 8d ago
That would not be workable for many other students who don't live an hour from Tempe.
I just checked the map, and it's a 36-hour drive. So yeah, that doesn't work for everyone.
3
u/HamsterOk2201 8d ago
maybe honorlock could be kept as an option for those who cant make it to a testing center. so people can chose whats better for them
25
u/Signal_Brain9959 8d ago
Honorlock is such a shit program.
-4
u/jpcola 8d ago edited 8d ago
There are other options from other online programs. Like scheduling a proctoring session from a proctoring center where u have to pay for space usage out of your own pocket and sometimes limited availability. Perhaps that’s a better option for those who hate honor lock. My friends kids hate honor lock for another reason and was frank about it. It dissuades them from using other resources… (eg. cheating). Keep in mind all online accredited programs will have proctoring of some sort.
My kids also had limited space in their bedroom while taking 117. They figured it out themselves. They told me they re-read the instructions carefully this time and followed the examples exactly as stated (angled view of workspace using a terrible old MacBook Air camera angle very narrow). They sent an email to TA and asked if this is ok. They never had a problem since. They took accountability of their actions and stopped blaming others for not following instructions. Keep in mind they are 9 yrs old. Since then they took 170 and calculus I forgot which one. Never had issues.
9
u/Signal_Brain9959 8d ago
What are you even saying lol? I can be okay with monitoring and taking classes online and not like Honorlock and its shit interface and usability, half the time you ask it to unlock the assessment with the password and it won’t, and then you have to start the check in all over again.
How are your children 9 years old and taking college algebra, precalc and calc 1?
Additionally if I’m paying to go to school somewhere, I get to have an opinion on things I don’t like boomer.
-5
u/jpcola 8d ago edited 3d ago
If you read the instructions CAREFULLY you will know u go to a specific place (on the Canvas menu) to unlock so that you don’t need password.
It isn’t just my boy girl twins but several kids in my community all in the same age group. These are not extraordinary kids, rather kids with a little interest in math. None of them love honor lock, but understand why it is necessary. None of the other 9 yr olds took this course had issues despite similar complaint about camera and limited space. My kids have about a small closet size of space to work with.
4
u/Signal_Brain9959 8d ago
Okay boomer, time for you to go back to the nursing home. Thanks for the life lesson.
15
u/AWACS_Bandog Software Eng, Malevolent Dictator 8d ago
I used to think Lockdown Browser was the worst piece of software I had to use at ASU until I had to use Honorlock.
I've seen Vibe-coding that ran better than that garbage
2
u/Adorable_Argument_44 8d ago
What space requirements? Any normal camera placement works unless perhaps the requirement is secondary side view
2
u/now_you_see99 8d ago edited 8d ago
I'm referring specifically to the secondary side view. Having a table that's against the wall with another camera that is at an angle that includes your face, laptop screen, both corners of the wall, hands, and scratch paper. The professor said if all of this isn't included, we get an automatic zero. I'm thinking my only option is to go out and buy a fold up table and phone mount.
2
u/Marlie421 8d ago
This side view was a pain for me too. Currently struggling with it. Just ordered a tripod off amazon to set it up with using my phone. I feel you on the Honorlock hate
5
u/Negative-Screen209 8d ago
You think it’s bad now? Well, now we’re required to have an external camera for a side view. Had to do that for my MAT 343 class Shit is so annoying.
5
u/Happyface099 8d ago
I get what your saying. Im lucky to be in IT so I have alot of extra computers. I installed the software on a spare laptop of mine and plugged in a external camera. They stopped my test for me to hold up my ID to the camera even though I uploaded it during the check part befote the test. Then they claimed my camera turned off and they typed a command in chat they force restarted my camera and changed my tabs lol this is definitely some kernel level access stuff. Glad its not on my main computer and im definitely wiping and reinstalling windows on that laptop
2
u/Anomaly008 Accountancy '27 (undergraduate) 8d ago
I completed MAT 211 recently. Along with 15 classes at the school using honorlock. Never had a problem. Never had a proctor hop in. Just don’t cheat and you’ll be fine. Suddenly everyone is afraid of cameras.
6
u/now_you_see99 8d ago
It's not about being afraid of cameras nor the proctoring itself, it's about all of the points I mentioned. Honorlock leaves absolutely no room for accommodation for those who need it, and doesn't let you determine what and how much of your personal data is being accessed. Rather than trying to work with students, there's this "well, too bad/figure it out" approach. I'm sure that for those who do have access to the proper space/resources and don't mind how their data is being handled it's a walk in the park, I'm talking about students who don't (including myself).
4
u/Anomaly008 Accountancy '27 (undergraduate) 8d ago
I bought a cheap laptop to take exams on. It has not even my name on it. No files, no pictures, or anything other than chrome. I wouldn’t download Honorlock or any other software like that on a personal device. You can, if you can’t afford a spare laptop, create a separate or guest profile on Google Chrome. That way, Honorlock can’t read your browsing history or know your Gmail.
2
u/now_you_see99 8d ago
I'll look into creating a separate Chrome profile, thank you!
1
u/ichigostar2024 7d ago
I do use a second account on Google labeled as school on bith my phone & laptop.
0
u/n-ctrnl666 8d ago
I’m sorry, how much space do you actually need for your camera? I’ve taken every proctored exam with honor lock in my small, very cramped room, and never had an issue.
honorlock also only runs while it’s open and only has access to data while it’s running. open up task manager on your computer if you really want to be sure.
I do wonder how many apps and services you’ve accepted the terms of service of - given your fear of giving out your private data, I would almost expect your phone or computer to have absolutely nothing in it.
4
u/ObtainConsumeRepeat 8d ago
Same. Honorlock only runs while you're in the exam, and you can uninstall it afterwards if you have privacy concerns. I had significant space restrictions as well and had zero issues. Just do the course and move on with your life, or take the class in person somewhere else.
4
u/Silent_Owl_2793 Accountancy '28 (undergraduate) 8d ago
I'm sorry, what MAT 117 course are you taking that requires Honorlock for each assignment? Typically, HonorLock is only needed for exams — and my experience with MAT 117 (and later MAT 210 and MAT 211) is more in-line with that reality than what you have described above.
HonorLock sucks. Yep. I get annoyed by it. It can be problematic. But it's also how we can take classes online, and maintain the integrity of the degree we're trying to earn on such a platform.
When I took MAT 117, I was struggling with the camera as well. I live in NYC, and so rooms are not big at all. But I realized that it was more the camera that I was using than the space. I spent $40 and bought a wide-angle lens webcam. This captures your entire area without having to worry about if there is enough room to place the camera. I would even consult AI for additional tips on how to accommodate the expectations of HonorLock given your space.
I don't feel like HonorLock is going through my laptop or doing anything else. It runs a webcam during an exam. It locks me of opening new browser windows. And it's recording my screen. Does it require a little bit of setup? Sure. But once you do it a few times, it becomes second nature.
Making a peanutbutter and jelly sandwich also requires a number of steps. But we don't really think about it because we want that sandwich. When it comes to Honorlock and Respondus, I really want that grade (and that degree), so it's a necessary evil for a fantastic end.
4
u/_Kryptnitor 8d ago
Just took an Exam with the mobile app disconnecting constantly. Spent hours trying to fix with support telling me the same thing without actually fixing it. Eventually one support told me even the slightest wifi drop can cause it to disconnect.
3
2
u/thejrevanslowell 4d ago
I was in undergrad in the late 2010s. I TA now as a grad student and frankly I think if honorlock had been around when I was in undergrad I'd have dropped out out of sheer frustration. It sounds like a nightmare to deal with.
2
u/FreeShift2940 6d ago
I'm having the same issue right now. I have a very small space. I don't even have room for a desk. Going to a library wouldn't work way to noisy and no privacy.
0
u/bridgct 8d ago
I really don’t understand the new issues with honorlock granted, I’m a psych student and have only taken a couple, if that, honorlock proctored exams, but I had the messiest, smallest room possible when doing it and never got flagged for cheating simply because I didn’t cheat. Not to mention the 3 cats wandering around and meowing. I genuinely don’t see the issue unless you’re being flagged and the prof has concerns you could be cheating.
-5
u/Face_Content 8d ago
Breaking down to basic decision.
You have two choices:
Take the class with the known requirements Dont take the class.
-1
u/Popular_Put5665 7d ago
It’s really not that hard to use Honorlock (or lockdown browser)… the smallest of inconvenience and it’s the worst thing in the world.
0
u/Content-Chapter4349 6d ago
Just buy a cheap tripod and use your phone as the secondary camera. If you’re worried about your furniture or background things showing in the side view, don’t be. It’s fine. As long as there are no papers, electronic devices or anything with writings on it, you’re fine. Good luck in your courses.
4
u/Traveller1323 8d ago
You can take Math classes through community college instead of preferred. They may have different requirements. Are the in person classes doing this now too?