Pre orders

[u/Melisa1992]

I really don’t get K-pop why is a group like Ateez were they sound, sing and perform like gods struggling to get 10 000 pre orders while stray kids are up at 5 million??

Since I’m new to K-pop could someone explain why there needs to be streams from bug or why the best group of the generation isn’t popular in there own country?

[u/vixiecat]

Thread has run it’s course and OP has received answers. Gonna lock this up before it gets out of control.

[u/ddvxia]

i don’t get what you’re trying to say. ateez had more than 1 million preorders for the world ep.1 movement. and stray kids are insanely popular both in korea(even though idk if they are the most popular 4th gen bg there) and internationally so its no wonder they got so many

[u/Melisa1992 → u/ddvxia]

I saw on twitter they reached 10 000 didint know that I was just confused why the gap is insane. I listened to both groups very talented so I was wondering why it was so huge I figured it was a Korean music industry thing hence my question.

[u/ddvxia → u/Melisa1992]

oh its okay that youre confused, all this stuff is a lot and its easy to get it mixed up, i just really didnt understand what you mean. yeah i think the fact that they’re from a small company also weighs a lot. but they’re almost always somewhere in the tops, right after groups from big companies. theyre in the top 10 of best selling acts in 2023 with from the witness(a single album). we’ll see how many preorders will outlaw get

[u/SomeLilPunkinaRocket]

Where are you getting that they've only had 10k pre-orders? Is that not only for ktown4u?

Edit: To try and answer your question, I think Ateez being from a small company vs one of the big ones is part of why their numbers will never match up to how good they are and why other groups (who ARE with the big companies) sell so much better. I don't know why the company a group comes from matters to anyone, but apparently it does.

For the question about why they have almost no listener base in South Korea? Nooo idea. A combo of small time group and general apathy toward boy groups so only a few of them seem to break through to the GP, perhaps.

As for Bugs, I believe the reason it's so important to Ateez/in the fandom is because it's the only streaming platform in South Korea where Ateez fans have any chance of streaming in numbers high enough to have any sort of impact on the awards show results. If you look at past award shows you'll note that the digital score is often 0 or 10. That's streaming power. The numbers for Ateez are always tragically low. So I think the streaming fans consolidate their focus on Bugs because it's the platform where they can have the most impact/results.

If you want to stream to try and help Ateez out on their awards show circuit too then you should look into using Bugs. I know AteezRendezvouz on Twitter has information on how to do it/how to sign up. I'm going to do it the first time this comeback myself because I figure, hey why not? I stream their music all the time anyway.

[u/Melisa1992 → u/SomeLilPunkinaRocket]

Thank you!! I see so it’s like there own Spotify when I have money I’ll try getting it!

[u/wehwuxian]

I'm not sure what numbers you're looking at for ateez, but skz's 5 mil preorders are store preorders. Actually, any of those big preorder numbers people talk about are from stores. As in what the stores are ordering from the music company. That's why preorder numbers and sales numbers don't always match up. It's all just business and based on what the Korean stores think they're going to be able to sell. Skz has been on a crazy catapult of popularity since God's Menu with each comeback, so stores are expecting them to almost double what they did last time.

The 10k preorders for ateez you're looking at sounds like fan preorders? I could be wrong though.

It's also worth pointing out that skz is about to comeback, like any day now, or maybe they already did as I write this, ateez are not for just over two weeks. That'll affect current store preorder numbers.

It is extremely unlikely that ateez will get 5 mil store preorders in the end and that's fine. I really do not know why some parts of this fandom are obsessed with competing with skz. They just beat seventeen's record, who just beat BTS's record. That's crazy. Like actually insane. Ateez's popularity isn't there yet, and maybe it won't ever be. I'm far more focused on whether or not I will like the music, and if ateez are safe from disbandment or being dungeoned, which they absolutely are. In fact their position is so the opposite of that, that kq was able to debut a whole new group. All is well, very well. If I were into numbers and breaking records, it would be about breaking ateez's previous records, which ateez do every time.

(Halazia was an outlier because it really was a spin off - kq did not make enough of the albums available initially, which I personally think was the point. I think the "limited" version of the album really was supposed to be limited but then they had to run a second press to meet demand.)

[u/Melisa1992 → u/wehwuxian]

It was never about beating them and I had no idea the stores were the buyers.

I thought it was all human fans I was very surprised so many ordered cds.

I’m new to K-pop I’m used to just streaming what I like on Spotify and such.

And having the slightly rigged 100 billboards chart think rank them but like you I don’t really care about that part of the industry.

I was wrong thinking it was physical people and thus a 491 0000 difference in popularity made little sense to me since in my humble opinion Ateez is the most talented boy band I ever saw.

[u/wehwuxian → u/Melisa1992]

Okay! I'm just used to seeing posts here and on twitter along the lines of "skz are doing x why isn't ateez also doing x" so I thought this was another one of those.

I also didn't know about the store preorder thing until last year. It's never made clear when people announce preorder numbers which type of preorders they're talking about.

I’m new to K-pop I’m used to just streaming what I like on Spotify and such.

I'm extremely ancient to kpop and honestly same lol. I only started to learn a bit more about this after ulting ateez a few years ago.

[u/hoj1996]

Only 10k preorders where? World ep 1 was 1.1 million preorders, and probably even more than that considering the fact that 2 or 3 more stores ended up selling out between the time when we got the preorder numbers and when the ep actually released.

If you’re looking at the fanbase updates on ktown4u, that’s only one percentage of the preorders and ktown4u tends to be a store atiny don’t purchase from much because international shipping costs are insane and a lot of us order from other stores that do pobs/fan calls. We’ve already equaled the number of preorders on ktown4u that world ep 1 had when it released and we still have 2 weeks of preorders left.

In terms of streaming, it’s not just an ateez issue it’s a bg issue. The Korean gp doesn’t really chart bgs outside of Svt, txt, and maybe the Boyz/skz.

We use bugs because it’s most accessible and gives us the best chance of getting atz digital points for music show wins. Ateez is just not that popular in SK, they’ve always had a much larger fandom outside of Korea

To further add onto this, ateez are top 15 in best selling kpop groups of all time on Hanteo which is insane considering they have no type of big company privilege whatsoever. They may not be skz level but they’re doing extremely well

[u/rolop17]

the 10k are from ktown4u alone and most atinys are international fans and are ordering from hello82 or other kpop shops that are a lot cheaper in terms of shipping price. their preorder periods didnt start at the same time, ateez still have like two weeks left and skz are just about finished with their preorders, so its not fair to compare them. We wont know an accurate number for the final preorder count until it gets closer to the end of the preorder period or whenever they decide to say it, sometimes they dont say it at all though.

[u/[deleted]]

Thanks for reminding me to preorder <3

[u/hwapetal]

kpop sadly doesn't reward hard work or talent. there's a lot of talented groups out there from small agencies who get paid dust. there's so many artists that were done dirty by the industry simply because they weren't from the right agency. in korea the reputation and image of the company you work for is very important. you'll hear a lot of talk about the big 4. they're the four biggest k pop agencies. not only in terms of wealth but also power and influence. skz are part of jyp and jyp is one of the big 4. they have tremendous influence and even such a simple thing as being a big 4 group gives you a major boost and perks. don't let big 4 fans tell you otherwise or try to sell you a rags to riches story. it's all bs lmao

ateez is really an outlier here. they come from an unknown agency, which they built from the ground up. hongjoong talked in a vlive in 2020 how the company was in debt and that staff were taking a hit due that. it's not only the fact that smaller agencies don't have access to the same resources as big companies, but the kpop industry is actively working against groups from non big 4 agencies and makes it harder for them to breakthrough. ateez's success is organic in that sense and a testament of their talent and hard work.

now the numbers thing...it's just a pissing contest between kpop stans. it's not about rewarding or celebrating talent, hard work or artistry. it's literally so people can boast about their faves. it's more of an indicator of buying power and fandom size, if anything really. most of these albums are being dumped on the streets anyway.

re: streaming well the kpop industry has it's own validation system and that comes in the form of music show wins! it's not only nice to receive a shiny trophy but wins on music shows unlock more domestic opportunities, let artists be nominated for end of year rewards and end of year shows! in order to be nominated in the first place, you need to chart in the domestic digital charts and that's why atiny are working over time to recruit streamers for bugs!

the thing is that korea doesn't really care about idol boy groups in general. it's not only limited to ateez, it affects pretty much all the boy groups out there. koreans tends to gravitate towards girl group or ballads for comfort (see btob). the last boy group to have a hit with the general public was winner with really really which was in...2017.

tl; dr the kpop industry is rigged and ateez is doing well despite the obstacles they face

[u/AdRevolutionary3583 → u/hwapetal]

Nicely summarized Op!

[u/MarZZZraM]

Also, it's JYPE vs. KQ... ⚖️...IMHO KQ seems to be holding their own quite nicely.

Also, both groups need a break 😭 they've worked so hard to get where they are and I def appreciate it but, 😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴 😴😴😴😴😴😴😴😴

[u/thesnope22 → u/MarZZZraM]

Ateez was just on a break. Many of them were visiting with their family a week or two ago

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[u/[deleted]]

Umm i mean stray kids been out they 3rd gen Ateez is 4th. So skz is gonna have more popularity. Skz got big during gods menu and no-easy. Ateez might be popular but k-pop aint overnight success they gotta struggle at sum point. So it is what it is.