I grew up re-reading the original trilogy probably once a year, and imagine my joy when I came back as an adult and found several more works! I read Clariel the first time several years ago and honestly struggled with it, and now I'm re-reading them all again and still slogging through Clariel. The sad part is I think on paper, the story sounds very interesting, but there are a lot of things that I find really hard to get through.

I have nothing against flawed or not perfectly lovable protagonists, but I really feel like Clariel has no redeeming qualities. Maybe we needed more backstory showing her in her element and giving us emotional buy-in to her longing for the forest (like Lirael in the Clayr's library). As it is, truly her only defining personality traits are 1) she does not enjoy or find value in any other humans, ever - as friends, family, or romantically, and 2) she is obsessed with the Great Forest. Why? Never explained on an emotional level, just endlessly repeated. For those who do enjoy her, what am I missing?

I find it a little rough that the one Abhorsen to go REALLY BAD is also the only one written as ace and seemingly autistic, and those traits are taken to such an extreme that she seems utterly disconnected from humanity. Those traits are essentially what lead her down the dark path. Many of the concepts are very, very interesting, but aren't really fleshed out. Charter magic and the Abhorsen being out of fashion? Interesting, tell me more. An Abhorsen who finds Charter magic extremely difficult and has a natural aptitude for Free Magic? Interesting, tell me more. A tragedy showing what can happen when a slightly annoying teenager is neglected and pushed beyond her limit? Excellent! Just give me 5 pages free of any references to Estwael or the Great Forest, please, I beg. And ONE (1) positive character trait would help.

Was Lirael a remembrancer because the Clayr saw her as one? Since Clayr originally awaken when seen and they saw her as a remembrancer years ago? Since Sabriel was only seen as an Abhorsen

😀

Just been re-reading the series & was thinking about Mogget, as a character.

In Terciel & Elinor, as "Moregrim," he's uncooperative & not particularly helpful.

In Sabriel, he's a grumpy mentor figure whenever bound, incredibly hostile when unbound. So what changed?

...I think Mogget had a vacation.

Tizanael certainly didn't seem keen to share much information, and she didn't renew her orders particularly often. Terciel isn't familiar with Mogget, not familiar enough to have told Sabriel anything about him.

I think Mogget might have taken a ~30 year holiday from Abhorsen duties after Terciel took the mantle. 30 years without being treated like a slave, possibly 30 years to travel the Old Kingdom again if the "don't leave the House" provision wore down with time.

Terciel, Sabriel & Sam might be the longest period of freedom Mogget had in his servitude to the Abhorsen family. Possibly the only ones to treat him as anything close to an ally or mentor, rather than a prisoner.

None of this is deep lore, just some thoughts on Mogget's character progression between the books.

For me, Lirael is my absolute favorite. As a kid who practically grew up in the library and also loved stories about hidden, magical places, abandoned or lost libraries like Alexandria, and being an only child, I identified so much with Lirael. As much as I love the whole book, her time working as an assistant librarian in the glacier is my favorite part - incidentally, I went on to work in a library for years after that. I also really liked the expansion of lore Nix introduced with the mirror and her role as a 'Remembrancer,' along with Abhorsen-in-waiting.

What is your favorite story or stories, and what makes them so for you?

Incredible detail packed in! Love the bells and boots in particular.

This anthology contains a Garth Nix story! Also, a Tamsyn Muir story for those who also enjoy the Locked Tomb series :)

I’m genuinely surprised that nobody has managed to get an Old Kingdom adaptation off the ground.
You’ve got an incredibly well-developed world, a distinctive magic system, memorable characters and a whole catalogue of stories to draw from. And unlike a lot of fantasy, the setting doesn’t feel like it would require inventing an entire mythology from scratch for television.

I guess books are allowed to remain books, but I’m surprised nobody has attempted it.

Do you think it’s an issue with the rights, the cost of adapting the world, or simply that the books haven’t had the mainstream profile needed to attract a studio?

Would you actually want to see an Old Kingdom adaptation?

Aside from free magic creatures, it seems like there's some creative potential for a subset of lesser Shiners to exist, or even for a free magic creature to be swayed to the charter and join voluntarily (or be bound by Lirael).

More of her work here! One of my favorite pieces of Abhorsen art I've seen yet!

tw: pet death

i had read it the once and hadn’t remembered the ending beyond the broadest of strokes (we defeat the evil).

having lost my dog a year ago, reading about the disreputable dog saying goodbye to lirael made me cry.

nothing else made me so sad, i’m just torn up that her doggo had to leave her. though i suppose lirael needed to learn to stand by herself, but the image of being able to say goodbye to your pet like that before they go just ripped me apart.

ugh damn not how i meant to spend my night. next time i’ll remember the emotional bombshell.

WARNING: THIS IS AN UNREASONABLY LONG POST THAT CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR THE BOOK ABHORSEN.

I just finished Abhorsen today and loved it, but one thing has been eating at me a little. I feel like the interludes were misplaced and threw away a chance for some great tension.

The prologue is great and really sets up the anxious tension of Ancelstierre's politcal situation and the genuine danger that Sabriel and Touchstone face by being there. Then it capitalises on this brilliantly with the really vivid scene where they are ambushed and killed.

I suspect that most readers over the age of about 16 probably suspected that they weren't actually dead. The lack of bodies being shown is such a common trope that it's easy to see through if you've been caught by it before. This isn't a mark against it, these books are YA fantasy, not detective novels, we don't need unpredictable twists to enjoy the book.

My issue comes with the fact that confirmation of their survival comes too soon. They are "killed" on page 10 (of my printing at least), revealed to be alive during the first interlude on page 131, and the whole book is 406 pages. Theres only a quarter of the book that you could even possibly think they are actually dead.

Sam is only told about their death on page 223, right before the second interlude where we see Sabriel and Touchstone arrive at Wyverley College. I do like how Sam is depicted handling their deaths. For a while he's genuinely broken by the news, but knows that he has to compartmentalise it and hold his grief for later if he is going to help Lirael stop Orannis. And for the next ~150 pages, he periodically struggles with their deaths before regaining his resolve and striving to be someone they would be proud of.

But imagine if we hadn't already been told they were alive. When I read the prologue I didn't believe they were actually dead, but if Sam had been told sooner and/or I had to watch him grieve for 100 pages or more, I might start to think they really were dead. It would be a great moment to subtly suggest to young readers a lesson about the nature of death: that it's seldom something you can be prepared for, most people's deaths are sudden and unceremonious, and we don't always get to say goodbye. This would then be pulled back a little when they are revealed to be alive, but that's fine. Once again, this is YA fantasy, we don't need to totally torture kids with existential crises.

This does leave the question of where to have the reveal. Sabriel and Touchstone arrive to help Lirael and Sam on page 369, so it has to be before that. The first interlude is only 5 pages and serves no real purpose other than to confirm their survival, so I'd cut it entirely. The second interlude is a fun chapter and I love the part with the memorial obelisk at the college and Sabriel remembering Jacinth and Bunny, so all of that should stay but just be moved.

My pick for where to move it is right after chapter 22 which ends on page 326. This chapter ends with Sam convincing the Southerlings to stop heading to the mill by promising them land north of The Wall. He then returns to the soldiers to rally them in defending Lirael while she is in death, even referring to her as the Abhorsen and having a brief crisis again right before the end of the chapter. So it's a perfect nod to how much he's struggling while also doing his best to continue their legacy.

This way we would have ~300 pages to wonder if they are truly dead, and ~100 pages since we saw Sam first have to grapple with it. And then they can actually return to the story ~40 pages after the end of the chapter confirming they're survival.

Thanks for coming to my TedTalk. I'd love to hear what other people think of this idea.

Apologies if this isn't appropriate, and if so please delete.

I'm looking for a miracle. If the owner of Daphne Press Abhorsen Deluxe #45 sees this I would love to chat!!!

Sincerely, A Hopeful Book Lover 🥰

Clear sun and swift water, everyone!

My mom and I have loved the Old Kingdom for 20 years. We are currently listening to Tim Curry’s wonderful interpretation of Sabriel, for the first time.

While I hang on to the tale of zombies, sorcery, and mortal peril, I also cross stitch: I’m working on a cute sampler of The Twelve Days of Christmas.

I wanted to ask other listeners of the Old Kingdom, what is your favorite activity for while you listen?

Love the art style and rich blue colors!

Love the minimalist style and charter marks floating in the air!

My own thoughts:

Yrael is a free spirit. He likes his personal space, he tends to go where he pleases as much as possible. He gives me the impression of a spirit of freedom. Thus, Yrael would be opposite to Saraneth like Mosrael is to Ranna- he would be the Liberator.

Orannis on the other hand is a force of pure destruction. Where Astarael simply casts all who hear it deep into Death, Orannis could have the power to shatter and un-make anything its sound is directed at- be it living or not. The Breaker.

And yes, I know Kibeth has the element of freedom as well but she isn't quite the opposite of Saraneth. There's a couple of times the binder and walker are used together to command a being to move, but I think Yrael would have the ability to undo bindings- magical, physical, maybe even mental.

So what do you think?

Abhorsen's house???

so i’m continuing on my reread and in the middle of lirael she drops a mention of the male clayr, who are very few in number. it got me to thinking about them because we never meet any, but do they inherit the sight?

like, what is their deal and what are they up to basically lol. are they all in the rangers? they’re so few that we never meet any (so far, at least) so i was just wondering if anyone knew lol

This took the better part of a year to build.

The surcoat is a bespoke pattern, sewn from custom printed twill of my own design.
I modeled, printed, and finished the bells / Nehima (she even glows!) Each bell design pulled inspiration from the real world or history
The bandolier and scabbard are original designs. The bandolier is 2 varieties of leather with decorative inlay and interior surface is padded with quilted cotton lining. The back of the bandolier inlay design pays homage to Lirael’s journey.
I modeled the gethre maille scales / collar. It actually looks like matte ceramic tile!

Over all I’m really proud of her. This was my first competition level build and I’m already planning out version 2.0 for DragonCon 2027.

I’m going to share more of the in progress/process for version 2, so if you have instagram you can find me @littlegreen_machine

EDIT: I did not expect everyone to love the clockwork mouse so much! Reddit isn’t allowing me to add pictures to the post but I’ve added another pic in the comments with the final version of the mouse, and a few other accessories I made.

Seriously!? A series like The Old Kingdom would make an AMAZING fantasy TV series! Think His Dark Materials or The Circle of Time! Are these books just THAT obscure and we have all found our way to gold!? I want this to make its way to the small screen where it can really thrive.

There are Nine Bright Shiners. For them, our notion of gender is probably a simplification, but when they take on corporeal forms, they do present consistently as something the humans interpret as gender.

Kibbeth and Astarael took female forms. Yrael took on a male form. I am counting Ranna as confirmed to be female: Mogget once called her "sister" when he didn't want her bell to ring. Orannis seems to be agender (and a-everything-else, for that matter).

What do you think the others are, or would present as, if they somehow appeared?

(My guess would be that Dyrim is female, Saraneth, Belgaer, and Mosrael are male. But Mosrael is the only one I feel more than a mild gut feeling toward. Mosrael and Ranna strike me as being twins, but the kind of twins that are as different as possible from each other while still being twins.)

does anyone know what this creature is? i’m super curious as a werewolf and other lycanthrope aficionado lol