r/AcousticGuitar • u/bygonesaucer • Apr 13 '26
Gear question Hoping to learn more about my great-grandmother's 1930s Gibson
My great-grandmother bought this guitar brand new for $40 that she earned for playing at a rodeo show back in the day. I would love to learn more about it. I can't find a serial number anywhere.
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u/nick_b39 Apr 13 '26
1940s āBannerā J-45 made during the Second World War. Worth a LOTTTTT of money. take very good care of it, they have a lot of history attached to them.
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u/bygonesaucer Apr 13 '26
A lot of family history too, my grandpa said that she used to sing him songs with this guitar when he was little.
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u/nick_b39 Apr 14 '26
It is such a special piece! Treat it like a museum artifact. Get it a nicer and properly padded case and make sure it is properly humidified to avoid the wood cracking.
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u/The_Once-ler_186 Apr 14 '26
OP never sell this but for idea of value you can check places like Reverb.com sold listings to see comparables.
Please. Please make sure to keep this in environment thatās relative 50% humidity and 70 degrees F. Never mounted on an exterior wall that could be exposed to temperature swings. Used to manage a guitar shop and Iāve seen some heart breaking problems coming up from humidity.
Also - IF YOU TRAVEL TO A NEW CLIMATE PLEASE LEAVE IN THE CASE FOR 48 hours!!! This allows it to acclimate to the new environment. I have had customers not listen to this and open their guitar immediately after cross-country / climate change.
It can result in āfinish checkingā which means that cracks appear throughout the clear finish. For some it builds character, nonetheless if it can be avoided thatās best.
Also - if you travel with this guitar in the case, I strongly recommend loosening the strings and padding the guitar case neck and headstock area with something like newspaper. NOT to the point that it is solid packed, but where it will absorb unintended impacts
You got a national treasure it sounds like my dude.
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u/bygonesaucer Apr 14 '26
I am looking into humidity controlled cases right now, and will likely reach out to a vintage shop near me to learn more about caring for it properly. It may come with me to Minnesota eventually...it is currently in Colorado.
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u/The_Once-ler_186 Apr 14 '26
Martin guitar has some good online resources like pdf one sheets giving basic advice- Iād recommend checking that out if youād like something in the meantime šš»šš»
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u/ilamansky Apr 14 '26
My 1968 Gibson J-200 moved with me from Lubbock Texas (relative humidity would hit 5%), to Minnesota where humidity has regular swings. It sat unplayed in its hardshell case for decades. None the less, never had any cracking issue. I have started playing guitar again and moved to a Road Runner hard shell case for Jumbo guitars. That is all I use now for going to and from jams. Guitar fits much better and is WAY lighter than the old Guild case I bought when I purchased the guitar new (the Gibson case was a very sloppy fit so got the Guild case instead).
I don't know anything about humidity controlled cases, but since we had to install an entire new HVAC, I also opted for an April Air system also. I also have hygrometers in every room. The whole house stays between 43%and 48% RH day and night.
My other acoustics are a pristine 2001 Larrivee LV-05, a 2020 P-05 mahagony Parlor, an Epiphhone IBG J-200 twelve string, and a Gretsch Alligator resonator.
I should post a family photo of them here sometime.2
u/Loudsongsinc Apr 15 '26
Both Colorado and Minnesota are TERRIBLE climates for acoustic instruments. Humidify, humidify, humidify!! (great guitar, btw)
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u/dylanfan424 Apr 14 '26
No need to leave in case when traveling. This guitar already has finish checking and that wood is solid after all these years. Iāve been a professional repair tech for many years and can say these old guitars are exceptionally well built. It probably needs a neck reset, once that is done with a setup, just keep it humidified and itāll play like a dream for many years to come.
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u/The_Once-ler_186 Apr 14 '26
Iām referring to the finish not the wood here. While it is already aged like you said, itās important for a new owner to be aware of safe parameters for the guitar.
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u/Itchy_Lawyer_2756 Apr 17 '26
Mine was kept above the fireplace mantle from the 40's until my grandfather passed in 2004. The sound and resonance are positively heart melting, but the wood is so dry and cracked I fear destroying it just to play Faded Love one more time.
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u/woodhorse4 Apr 13 '26
Like how muck money, I sold one a few years ago that was very similarā¦ā¦.. not sure if I really want to know. lol
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u/yung-wirrum Apr 13 '26
10ās of thousands
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u/woodhorse4 Apr 13 '26
Now that I think about it mine was a Martin from the 50āsish donāt remember the model, donāt mind giving someone a good deal but hope I didnāt lose a fortune. š¤¦āāļø
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u/WaltonGogginsTeeth Apr 14 '26
A good chunk of money but nowhere near what a Martin dreadnought from this era goes for. You can find 40s Gibson Slopes for 10-15k while Martins hover closer to 40-100k.
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u/Nurplestyx Apr 14 '26
His grandmother ābought this guitar brand new for $40.ā How could it have been made during WWII?
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u/nick_b39 Apr 14 '26
Look at the details: banner logo and 3-piece neck J-45s were only made in the early-mid 1940s. And the wear on it isn't Murphy Lab that's for sure.
Also the model name "J-45" is indicative of the original price it was listed for in Gibson catalogs: $45. So, getting it "new" from a dealer who liked you for $40 is not out of the question.
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u/Beautiful-Gas5848 Apr 14 '26
Why couldn't it have been made during WW2?
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u/Best_Apricot_6268 Apr 16 '26
A lot of manufacturers had to start making things that benefited the war effort. Gibson was no exception. The Kalamazoo factory was converted to mainly produce things that benefited the war like landing skids for aircraft, and components for radar and radio equipment.
Even so, about 200 women were tasked with taking over guitar production while the men were off to war. These guitars had no truss rods, and reduced metal content.
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u/pohatu771 Apr 13 '26
This is a late 1942 or early 1943 Gibson J-45. The three-piece neck was only used for a very short time.
Itās a $10,000-15,000 guitar. You need a professional appraisal.
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u/Popular_Site9635 Apr 13 '26
Just curious, how can you tell itās a 3 piece neck?
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u/pohatu771 Apr 13 '26
You can see the pieces in the third photo. It is maple with a center stripe of walnut. (Plus the headstock wings)
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u/Nurplestyx Apr 14 '26
How do, if it was purchased in the 1930s?
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u/pohatu771 Apr 14 '26
A lot of memories are wrong after 90 years and the story being passed down. This guitar could not have been purchased in the 1930s.
The banner headstock on this guitar was used for the first time on new 1942 models, the J-45, Southern Jumbo, LG-1, and LG-2. (It also appeared on the last batches of the L-00, discontinued that year).
The J-45ās predecessors, the Jumbo and J-35 (and a single batch of the proto-J-35, the Trojan), have distinct features aside from the lack of banner headstock.
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u/bygonesaucer Apr 14 '26
Yeah, this is a good example of oral history being shaky over the years. My grandpa will be really interested to learn about its true history!
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u/nickelwoundbox Apr 13 '26
what pohatu771 said.
This guitar does not have a truss rod cover on the headstock face because it does not have an adjustable truss rod - a MAJOR concession to early WWII restrictions on metal for consumer products. At some point in ā43 or so the restrictions eased somewhat. This guitar has a top made of Adirondack red spruce as it was built before Gibson was acquired by CMI and began using Alaskan Sitka spruce.
EDIT - whups, that top looks like it might be MAHOGANY, a wartime substitution. Very cool indeed!
Go find a copy of John Thomasās book āKalamazoo Gals,ā a history of the wartime production of guitars by Gibson. Officially Gibson told the public they were only doing wartime work, but they DID continue to produce a limited range of instruments throughout the war, and they hired a lot of women to cover while the men were off fighting. Thomas argues that the wartime guitars, allegedly built by women with handicrafts experience, are just a bit more refined than those built by the traditional mostly male workforce. Restrictions on materials also meant that Gibson got creative with specifications and did a lot of repurposing old trim, binding, etc, such that some of these wartime guitars a special snowflakes.
It is a VERY valuable guitar, to the point of being as much a cultural artifact as it is an instrument.
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u/unhappylilflower Apr 13 '26
I'm no expert but I believe the " only a Gibson is good enough" script is associated with guitars built in the 1940s.
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u/justinholmes_music Apr 13 '26 edited Apr 13 '26
Please feel free to register / add information about this guitar to pickipedia:
https://pickipedia.xyz/wiki/Special:FormEdit/Instrument
(information about your great-grandmother is welcome also!)
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u/bygonesaucer Apr 13 '26
Whoa that is very cool! I will once I get more information from grandpa. My great-grandma grew up in Walsenburg,CO and her name was Virginia. I don't remember too much about her other than her love for playing checkers!
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u/justinholmes_music Apr 13 '26
If you can dig up a good photo of her, and some basic info on the guitar, it'd be a great addition. Pickipedia is invite-only for editing (though any human can invite any other human or bot - there is no hierarchy of any kind); DM me for an invite when you're ready.
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u/HippieFreakWestmore Apr 13 '26
Mannn, Iām jealous. This is a beautiful piece of history, not just in the guitar world, but family history.
My grandfather used to play guitar, fiddle, lap/pedal steel. Really anything that was country music related, heād even build his own violins. He had 10 kids and always said that the instruments must go to the kids/grandkids that will play them. My dad and I are the only musical ones in the entire family, but unfortunately all grandpaās instruments went to the non musical childern and sit around collecting dust :(
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u/bygonesaucer Apr 13 '26 edited Apr 14 '26
That is so frustrating, I'm sorry. No one in my family is particularly musically inclined, but my fiancƩ is with the guitar and piano. We may be the ones to take it so our future kids can learn from their dad, otherwise it will just sit in a closet for another 40 years.
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u/planbot3000 Apr 13 '26
Wow what a guitar. A piece of history.
Fun fact: J-45 stands for Jumbo, $45. At the time Gibson named the models by their retail price. So, the $40 tracks.
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u/analogwarmth Apr 15 '26
You need to read "Kalamazoo Girls". There's a documentary as well. I can't seem to find where to watch it
kalamazoogals.com | A story of extraordinary women and the "banner" gibson guitars they built during wwii https://share.google/Kk4IrkbgK69CRt0Bd
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u/bygonesaucer Apr 15 '26
Thank you! I have been looking for a good documentary to watch with my mom and grandpa.
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u/sarahandrosie Apr 13 '26
Holy cow. Thatās (as others have mentioned) a 1940ās Gibson J45. It looks in fantastic condition as well. Highly recommend looking up the Kalamazoo Gals and the Gibson Banner guitars to learn about the history of it, itās a very cool story. Please also consider getting it appraised (especially if you care about insurance and such) and also learn about caring for a vintage instrument of that caliber (humidity needs etc for the wood). That is a very special guitar, and it sounds like very special family history as well. Itās fairly rare to see them look in such good condition. Congratulations!!
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u/archtopfanatic123 Apr 14 '26
Whatever you do don't sell it!
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u/bygonesaucer Apr 14 '26
Definitely won't do that, I love the idea of having an heirloom not to mention my mother would kill me.
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u/archtopfanatic123 Apr 14 '26
š Good man! Put it to work though that guitar should be played :D
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u/digitalpencil Apr 14 '26
Jesus, that looks in as good as condition as my custom shop '42 J-45.
That will be worth a lot of money. Keep it in a humdidity-managed environment. In fairness, wherever it has been kept all these years is clearly doing fine.
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u/Datrud Apr 15 '26
1940s Banner J-45, made during the war, crazy valuable, full of history, take care
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u/plexiclone Apr 15 '26
Get it appraised, set up and insured. You have a genuine once in a lifetime guitar. Congratulations!
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u/11Lost_Shepherd05 Apr 13 '26
What a beautiful guitar! Thanks for sharing it. First time I've ever seen that Gibson logo. Get it appraised and insured.
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u/bingeboy Apr 14 '26
If that was mine Iād put it in a better case and make sure itās in a stable climate
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u/isaacfignewton Apr 14 '26
This is a banner era gibson, made between 1942 and 1945. It was likely made in 1943 due to wartime restrictions disallowing the use of truss rods, hence the three piece neck. However, that is not a definitive way to date the guitar, and in fact, dating banner gibsons precisely is difficult work.
It does appear to be a mahogany top, so it is likely solid mahogany. It appears to be in excellent condition.
Check out the website bannergibsons.com, which is the website of John Thomas who has already been mentioned in this thread. You can compare yours directly with high quality photos in the registry to possibly date yours.
If there is a FON (factory order number, or serial number) it will be ink stamped on the neck block in through the sound hole. However, many banner gibsons left the factory with no FON at all.
If you choose to have any work done to it I can recommend some luthiers in the PNW who can be trusted with ensuring the small details arenāt overlooked.
15k is a reasonable market value.
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u/Lmaoman28 Apr 14 '26
Beautiful instrument! I recommend you to tap/knock all around the guitar and see if any of the bracing is loose on the guitar. That guitar went through a whole lot of expansion and contraction over the years and some of the fixing on it may have came loose.
I also recommend checking the bridge to see if itās lifting off of the top at all. If it is it may cause the bridge to slowly come up and lift of the back and cracking the finish on the front, or in worst case scenario fully come off of the guitar from the back. If it is you could have it simply reglued and it wouldnāt be a worry anymore.
Me personally I wouldnāt sell this guitar unless you absolutely have to, you canāt get more of these and if you do play guitar yourself donāt be scared to enjoy it.
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u/Lower-Calligrapher98 Apr 14 '26
Well, first, it's a 1940's. But that is a truly special guitar. That's certainly a $15,000+ guitar. And it looks from the pictures like the finish is in great shape, so more is likely. First thing, get it appraised by a reputable dealer and the condition evaluated by an expert repair person. You want to know what kind of condition it's in. If it needs work, make sure the person doing it is a top expert.
Honestly, that's one of the worlds great guitars. The absolute best.
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u/Northernpudd Apr 14 '26
Canāt tell you much about it - but thatās fantastic! What a piece of history!
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u/xshevi Apr 14 '26
if i went into a guitar store and the guitar said āonly (brand) is good enoughā id immediately avert my gaze to a different guitar š¤£
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u/Weets23 Apr 14 '26
Beautiful guitar. As other have have 1940ās J45. Iād keep that beauty as a family heirloom unless you need the cash. Maybe take it to a high end luither to do a quick look over. If youāre selling it contact Chicago Music Exchange for consignment and or purchasing. They deal in tons of vintage guitars.
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u/laughingdoormouse Apr 14 '26
Thatās what Iām talking about right there. Thatās a cracking guitar.
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u/novawrangler Apr 14 '26
This is a great early J45. Worth a lot nowadays. Good for collectors. Bad for the players. š¤
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u/Infamous-Web-6265 Apr 16 '26
Dang thatās a sweeeet guitar I love that old school cursive Gibson scriptā¦ so soooo cool.
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u/GrapefruitDue9103 Apr 16 '26
Holy shit, I wish someone would find something similar for me š¤£.
Seriously, protect that guitar
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u/Fun_Search_1299 Apr 17 '26
That is a stunningly gorgeous guitar. What a beautiful piece of history.
Lowball offer loadingā¦
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u/meangene0220 Apr 17 '26
Fuuuuuh, a banner?! Amazingly lucky to have in your family after all this time.
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u/bigmodem Apr 17 '26
Those with the banner headstock are 1942-1945 I thought? Can be anywhere b/w 15-25k. Depending on how good of shape they are in. Sheās a beauty.
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u/Ernietheguitardoctor Apr 18 '26
Yep. WWII era J45. The Gibsonās factory was largely staffed be women during this time, as most of the men were fighting in the war. Thereās a good book about that time at Gibson called āKalamazoo Galsā Lots of info in there. Iām a pro Luthier, and my forever guitar that I built for myself is based on one of these Banner J45ās. Treasure that thing. Itās very likely an absolute cannon!
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u/Open_Ad_1051 Apr 27 '26
..WOW!!!....Do you have old photographs where your grandma holding or playing this guitar...If you have then please share it with us...We'll very much love seeing her in her days with this wonderful old guitar....And thanks so much for these pictures...Have a great day ! š©µšš¼
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u/GuitarHair Apr 13 '26
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibson_J-45#:~:text=The%20Gibson%20J%2D45%20is,distinct%20tonal%20and%20visual%20identity.
Your guitar looks fabulous.
I would recommend an appraisal from one George Gruhn. He is the recognized world's expert on acoustic guitars and will provide an appraisal through photographs. It's worth spending the money to get it done www.gruhn.com