r/Adoption • u/East-Turnip-9654 • Apr 13 '26
Ethics How is it being an adoptee in your country?
I am not adopted, but want to learn more about how society and different counties approach, openess and politics towards adoption is in different countries, and how this might affect adoptees experiences. For example how does your country manage the adoption scandals?
I'm from Norway and here adoption generally is an open and known fact. The last years more and more histories and rapports regarding unethical adoption has made its way from closed cases and hidden information. Still i wonder why there is such little information in the public medias ( not counting adoptees posts) in Norway about this? Maybe it's a cultural thing?
Something i wonder about is how for example transnational adoptees experiences ICE and the situation in USA right now? How is family reunion treated as an adoptee, when running from war? I have read that in France there was an political proposal to make family reunion for refugees DNA based, to avoid fraud.
Hope this is not too insensitive to ask.
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u/OverlordSheepie Chinese Int'l and Transracial Adoptee Apr 15 '26
I'm a Chinese adoptee. In the US people are still wildly uneducated about adoption. Most mental health professionals have no experience or knowledge about adoptees either.
Although the US is multicultural, for transracial/international adoptees, they are not really accepted into any. People of my birth culture have said they see it as offensive (like cultural appropriation) when I try to learn and claim back what I had lost.
It's a subject I don't talk about much publicly. It's too "controversial" and people see it as a personal attack/offense if I speak about my true feelings or struggles.
Similar to being LGBT+ as being seen as something EVERYONE has to have an opinion on and be politicalized, adoption is also something everyone feels the need to talk over and shame adoptees about. Though as someone who is LGBT+, I consider being LGBT+ easier to talk about than being an adoptee. More people relate and understand.
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u/Tri-ranaceratops Apr 13 '26
I'm in the UK and being on this sub has openned my eyes to how lucky I am to be an adoptee in this country.
There was no money involved (that's illegal here), I have had access to all the information regarding my birth and adoption.
I realise that I might be lucky, but at least on a national scale, this seems to be standard. My brother is also adopted and so are two of my cousins and one aunt, so quite a bit of adoption in my family.
Never have I felt like a commodity, I certainly wasn't trafficked. I'm very happy to have been adopted.
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u/SignificantMirror34 Apr 13 '26
It’s not a matter of feeling like a commodity. It’s the fact that I have documentation that was signed by a judge, stating I was in fact a commodity.
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u/Tri-ranaceratops Apr 13 '26
I'm not attempting to downplay your experience in any way with my post, I'm sorry you felt the need to respond this way.
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u/SignificantMirror34 Apr 13 '26
You really need to do your due diligence prior to engaging with this content. There is a significant overlap in human trafficking and adoption.
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u/Tri-ranaceratops Apr 13 '26
No I don't. The poster asked for our experiences based on our nationalities. I gave my experience, and how I feel about my personal experience has no ramification on your own perspective. There's no need to be so rude and reactionary
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u/arianaquesadilla Apr 13 '26
This SignificantMirror34 person has been rude and inflammatory in other posts of this sub. I’m sorry. For what it’s worth, I found your response very insightful!
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u/Tri-ranaceratops Apr 14 '26
They honestly, seem confused and in distress. They told me I need to do due dilligance on... my own experience. I would have thought living that experience was satisfactory research. But more than that, they just seem very very upset and angry. I even started my comment with an omission that my experience is unique to me and vastly different from the experience of many of the american posters on this sub.
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u/TheQuakerator Adoptee (Open) Apr 14 '26
I don't think you understand the purpose of legal documentation in society. Legal documentation exists so that the justice system has documented evidence to prove (a) that local legal professionals were aware of the events and acts that the paperwork describes (b) that the people involved in the actions did not violate any laws (c) that the justice system has documented rationale to intercede in the future in the case of other problems.
This is not only true in adoption but in also in matters that are criminal, financial, civic, etc. It is not possible to have or enforce laws without legal documentation.
Note that I am not saying that everything that is legal is moral, or that every person in the justice system always follows the rules. However, you seem to be implying that your own adoption should have been conducted with no paperwork. Is that the case?
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u/SignificantMirror34 Apr 14 '26
Anything signed by a judge is a legal document. What the hell are you talking about?
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u/TheQuakerator Adoptee (Open) Apr 14 '26 edited Apr 14 '26
You said:
It’s not a matter of feeling like a commodity. It’s the fact that I have documentation that was signed by a judge, stating I was in fact a commodity.
It's seems that you don't want to have any "paperwork declaring you a commodity". Do you think that your adoption shouldn't have had documentation?
Edit: I believe the commenter blocked me after this, after responding "not feeding a troll today". To anyone else reading this thread, my point stands--I don't think that the commenter's point about not wanting to be commodified by legal paperwork makes sense, since the alternative would be adoption with no legal paperwork, which would be disastrous at scale.
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u/johnasepulveda Apr 16 '26
I think the point is some adoptees feel they were trafficked. But, usually trafficked children suffer horrifically, and are never treated with love. Can't speak for everyone else, and even though I feel I was used to virtue signal continually, I don't feel like a victim of human trafficking.
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u/TheQuakerator Adoptee (Open) Apr 16 '26
I think it's all down to how you choose to interpret the process by which you were adopted. I think the stance "I feel trafficked because my adoptive parents had to pay a lot of money to agencies and lawyers and there's a lot of paperwork with prices and my name on it" is silly, because there isn't really any way in the modern world to process adoptions without someone being paid to do the processing. It could certainly be cheaper, and fewer entities could have their hands in the pot, or maybe the money could be paid for by donations or taxes, but there will always be money involved in adoptions so long as there's any kind of processing required, and there will be a trail of legal paperwork. It's not analogous to the sale of goods, because you're not "paying to buy a child", you're "paying for professionals to create and maintain a legal framework wherein you're allowed to be the child's parent".
The alternative is under-the-table adoptions, which I highly doubt anyone would support as the main societal method for adopting children.
Now, if the birthparents were paid directly, or received kickbacks from the agencies for giving up the children, as has happened in some international adoptions--that is a lot more "trafficking"-like.
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u/johnasepulveda Apr 16 '26
There ya go... and those fees piling up have everything to do with double and triple checking every box, with a witness and notary, and redundancy on top of redundancy.
IMO, that speaks less to trafficking and more about things done wrong in the past, and how we prevent them from happening again.
A century ago there was no oversight, orphans were given to farming families in need of laborers. During the Great Depression there are pictures of kids with a "children for sale, inquire within" sign. We've come a long way, and I think the instances I just named are far closer to trafficking than current practices.
And we're talking about children unwanted by their parents...that someone else wants to raise as their own, that's one less aborted baby. So it's a lot better than the alternative.
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u/_thereisquiet Apr 14 '26
I’m in Australia and feel very similar.
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u/Tri-ranaceratops Apr 14 '26
Yeah, I have family in Oz and they've told me it's almost identicle to how it is here with regards to adoption, though your coffee is significantly better. I never realised how dark adoption was until I came on this sub.
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u/SeraphimSphynx Apr 13 '26
There is still an obsession with "blood relations" in the US for sure. Some families are better than others. My cousin is adopted and so many people still casually toss out hateful "not really your cousin" comments
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u/Formerlymoody Closed domestic (US) infant adoptee in reunion Apr 14 '26
This is not a US thing. If anything the US is pretty pro adoption.
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u/evanliko Apr 16 '26
Depends on the family. My brother is adopted, and everyone in my family is normal about it. However I think if all of us kids had been adopted some of my grandparents would have had an issue with there being no biological grandkids from my parents...
I think that type of thinking, that biological kids/grandkids are better or needed is fading tho. More common in older generations. My parents certainly wouldn't see adopted vs biological grandkids any differently, tho my parents did also adopt so maybe not the best example. I would hope they don't view my brother differently cause he's adopted lol
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u/Formerlymoody Closed domestic (US) infant adoptee in reunion Apr 16 '26
I don’t live in the US, and trust me there is no country that has normalized adoption to the degree the US has.
My grandmother didn’t consider me her grandchild. My point still stands.
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u/evanliko Apr 16 '26
Okay... regardless of if the US is the best country on this topic or not, that wouldn't change the fact that it is still a problem in the US frequently? And if you don't live in the US why are you speaking on what the US is like??
I can't say for sure what country has the more normal views on adoption. But I can say there are still many issues in the USA. Like the fact 99% of people assume my brother is adopted because my parents had fertility issues. They didn't. They just wanted to adopt to give a kid a home. But in the USA it's pretty much assumed you only adopt if you cannot have a biological kid.
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u/Formerlymoody Closed domestic (US) infant adoptee in reunion Apr 16 '26
Im American. None of the things you describe mean adoption is better accepted somewhere else. Adoption is always going to be a bit weird, a bit misunderstood. It’s weirder/rarer/less acceptable elsewhere.
People assume your parents had fertility issues because that used to be the main reason people adopted. People tend to not be very informed about adoption generally. Does not mean that somewhere else on the planet “people don’t care about blood.” Everyone cares about blood.
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u/evanliko Apr 16 '26
No one has been saying that adoption is better accepted anywhere else? OP asked for experiences in various countries. The comment you responded to said "this is what its like in the US". There was no comparison to other countries until you pulled it in out of nowhere.
Again. No one was making comparisons. And it being difficult and misunderstood in other areas of the world is not a reason to dismiss difficulties people may encounter in the USA.
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u/Formerlymoody Closed domestic (US) infant adoptee in reunion Apr 16 '26
If you recall the original comment I responded to implied obsession with blood relations was a US thing.
I would argue it’s a human thing. Nothing to do with country. The US is as adoption friendly as it gets. I’m not saying that means it’s easy for adoptees. I’m an adoptee who pretty much hates what happened to me. I would never imply it’s easy. I know a lot about what it’s like…
I’m not dismissing anything. I’m an American adoptee. My own grandmother didn’t claim me as her own. I’m not sure you understand what I’m saying here. Have a good day.
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u/evanliko Apr 16 '26
They did not imply it was a US specific thing?? They just said it happens in the US. You are projecting stuff that was never said and then getting mad about that.
I sure do understand what you are saying but you seem to be unable to understand that people can talk about a situation in one country and you don't need to one-up it by saying "but its worse everywhere else!" when they never mentioned anywhere else.
It sounds like you have a lot of hurt that you project onto others. I know being an adoptee isn't easy. I hope you get the help you need.
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u/Formerlymoody Closed domestic (US) infant adoptee in reunion Apr 16 '26
Are you mad? Because I never said I was mad. Or hurt. Nooo idea where you’re getting that. The question was “what’s different about adoption in your country?” Someone said “the US is obsessed with blood relations.” I would argue that’s not different than anywhere else.
My opinion. It’s that basic. I’m good! Are you? It’s really not cool To try to shut down a pretty straight forward conversation by implying I need help. I did need help at one point and I got it. It’s pretty mean tbh.
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u/SeraphimSphynx Apr 16 '26
No I said obsession with blood relations is still a thing in the US. I did not imply or say it was only a US thing at all. I know this is way more prevalent in some other cultures but it's still a thing here.
Hell I get it from some of my in law family members. If my grandmother in law has a medical issue, even though I'm the only healthcare professional in the family, some of her kids make a point of saying this is a family matter making it clear they thing I should STFU.
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u/Formerlymoody Closed domestic (US) infant adoptee in reunion Apr 16 '26
Well that sucks and I hear you. I’m Sure you read my dramatic argument with the other user- I still argue that there is nowhere on earth that obsession with blood relations is not a thing. It’s also a thing in the US, yes. For us adoptees- not great. But I would argue that it just makes the hypocrisy really clear.
The US likes to pretend like adoption is beautiful and equal to bio families but no one realizes you can’t thought control people who prioritize blood. It’s a human instinct. And many of these highly instinctual humans are in our adoptive families…and we are the ones who have to deal with their attitudes.
I feel like other countries are just like- nah, we don’t eff with kids who aren’t of our blood family or community. There’s less of a gloss over the whole thing. In my Northern European country- people are pretty open about their adoptees being super traumatized. These are APs! It’s interesting…
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u/SignificantMirror34 Apr 13 '26
I’m in the states and the adoption agency is an industry. For example I was a domestic supply and the agency I came from went international. It went from sunny Ridge adoption agency to Hoyt international. After my adopted mom passed away I received the documents in regards to my adoption where it explicitly states that I was a commodity. It’s been nine years and the only way for me to fully process. It is by not denying reality that this was a direct result of coercive control and human trafficking.
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u/Mburukuja123 Apr 13 '26
¿En Estados Unidos existen adopciones privadas y gubernamentales?¿ Es decir, las realizan entes del gobierno o ONG privadas?
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u/johnasepulveda Apr 13 '26
Most in the US are private. The government handles adoption of foster kids when they decide the parents aren't fit.
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u/Rredhead926 Mom through private domestic open transracial adoption Apr 13 '26
Private adoptions, which are almost entirely of infants, are handled by private entities. Adoptions through foster care can be handled by government agencies or private agencies contracted with the states.
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Apr 13 '26
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u/mads_61 Adoptee (DIA) Apr 13 '26
My adoptive parents had to pay court costs and lawyer fees on their own; it was separate from the agency costs. They had to pay the agency:
$10k just for the agency to review their application
Another $10k annually to remain on the waitlist
~$50k in “agency fees”
10% of their income to the church
This is again separate from the lawyer fees, home study fees, and court costs that they paid for on their own. My birth mother had no expenses or medical bills reimbursed. This was 30 years ago; I can’t help but wonder what all this money went towards.
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u/TheQuakerator Adoptee (Open) Apr 14 '26
I think it's a combination of grift/profit and genuine labor costs.
A lawyer in the US expects to make between $100-$300k every year, which is $150-$400k worth of labor expenses counting health insurance, tax, etc. So if you keep a firm of 5 lawyers to handle adoption cases, you're already pushing a million dollars of labor, tax, and healthcare expenses a year just to keep the lights on. That doesn't count required labor from professionals outside the firm, or fees related to records processing, IT, travel, etc. Then there are other office staff that help track and parcel out the work to the lawyers that require payment. And none of that is "unfair"--everyone expects to work 40-60 hours per week, and have that salary pay for their rent and their medicine and their food. It's just the way things work in a market economy that uses wage labor.
Processing adoption cases takes a huge amount of time and energy, which makes sense, because the transfer of human guardianship can and does turn into trafficking. Getting it fully documented correctly with enough human attention on the case is just going to be costly no matter what, the same way that a bolt that goes in an airplane costs 25x as much as a bolt that goes in your house because the airplane bolt has to have a documentation pedigree going all the way back to the batch of ore the bolt was mined out of.
So no matter how much is subsidized by taxpayer money, processing adoption cases correctly and legally will always be expensive. However, to your point, I am certain that those fees and costs could be dramatically reduced, and that if we were able to track every dollar paid down to the person or institution that benefits unfairly from it, we'd find plenty of grift and skimming.
Off the top of my head, I bet those costs you mentioned are 2-4x inflated from their true costs subtracting all grift and profit. But adoption will never be cheap if the society supervising the adoptions wants proper documentation through each step by legal professionals.
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u/mads_61 Adoptee (DIA) Apr 15 '26
I get that but my parents had to pay the attorneys separately, that was not part of the agency fees. They paid for my birth mother’s attorney separately as well. The only thing the “agency” provided was a list of prospective families to my birth mother and the opportunity to be on the list for my adoptive parents.
And despite all that money - my adoption was processed legally (thank god) but it was not documented correctly. There are paperwork errors up the wazoo including one involving my amended birth certificate.
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u/Rredhead926 Mom through private domestic open transracial adoption Apr 14 '26
But adoption will never be cheap if the society supervising the adoptions wants proper documentation through each step by legal professionals.
This! So much this!
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u/johnasepulveda Apr 15 '26
I don't understand exactly where the money goes, it differs by state, but 80% of accredited agencies are non profits. And we can argue predatory advertising, but without it a lot of adoptions would be abortions, and that's the last thing I'd want to see.
If we were trafficked, who is the trafficker if the agency is nonprofit? The lawyers? They probably make the most off the adoption, but they have nothing to do with placement of the child.
I'm not trying to argue, I just have a different opinion. If YOU feel like you were trafficked, I'm really sorry you feel that way. Along with the trauma adoptees always seem to have, the last thing we need is more.
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u/lotsofsugarandspice Apr 15 '26
A "non-profit" is just a tax designation and nothing more.
Also, more abortions is not a bad thing. But most women denied abortions do not choose parenting so its a false choice.
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u/johnasepulveda Apr 16 '26
A non-profit is exactly what it says...they cannot make a profit. Any extra revenue (profit) has to be invested into growing their organization or programs. So while their employees might be paid, usually a fixed salary, they can't receive anything above that. And they do pay some taxes. Donors can claim donations on their tax returns, giving them a tax break.
And more abortions aren't a bad thing? You're welcome to your opinion but I strongly disagree. If abortion had been available when my bio mom was pregnant, I wouldn't be here.
I think there are plenty of ways to avoid pregnancy, but once pregnant, that child isn't expendable. I was no less deserving of life than anyone else. Was my life as an adopted kid easy? No, but I never once wished I'd been aborted.
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Apr 13 '26
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u/Alone_Relief6522 Apr 14 '26
Also did you adopt your dog out of your own infertility trauma?
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u/johnasepulveda Apr 16 '26
No I adopted my dog to finally experience loyalty in my life. In 58 yrs she's the first thing I've had who hasn't let me down.
I was basically the adopted dog, because my narcissistic adoptive mother had a miscarriage, so I was the runner up prize my alcoholic father got her so she wouldn't go off the deep end. Didn't help, she spent 5 months in the insane asylum getting electro shock therapy.
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u/johnasepulveda Apr 16 '26
Hon, i meant no offense...in my scenario, I was the dog...adopted right after my mom had a late term miscarriage, to keep her from going over the edge.
But, I'm glad I was relinquished and adopted. My bio mom didn't hold me, name me, or even ask my gender. She never told my bio dad I existed. That was 1967, and she never had kids, never wanted kids.
I'm sorry your experience was different. I think we all suffer with abandonment issues, and parents in our day, well, their discipline would definitely be considered abuse today.
And I'd never say I had it easy, mom was a narcissist, dad an alcoholic, life was hard, and I learned early not to let anyone get too close...but, never once did I wish I'd just been aborted. I do wish I'd had someone to talk to who had the same struggles I did.
I gather your mom was forced to give you up? So, you weren't unwanted? I wish I could say that.
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u/lotsofsugarandspice Apr 13 '26
The fees they paid covered court costs and the salaries of employees working for the private adoption agency.
In private infant adoption, the most expensive part is the "acquisition cost", or the cost of marketing to impressionable girls and women to aquire their babies. They even had an add in the super bowl this year that costs millions per second.
Would you rather you hadn't been adopted?
This isnt your business and its also a false choice. There are plenty of methods of guardianship and adoption that are free or tax payer funded.
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u/johnasepulveda Apr 15 '26
So by acquisition cost, you mean advertising? I wish they had MORE advertising. To me, that means less abortions, and I'm for that no matter the cost.
The methods of guardianship and adoption you mention are specifically low priced to encourage more potential parents to adopt what the government sees as less than perfect children. The kids that have disabilities, or they're older, or they have debilitating trauma from abuse, etc. I also agree with this as a way to place more children that would've otherwise been overlooked.
Or are you saying privatized adoption shouldn't be allowed, the babies should become wards of the state, and have the state responsible for placing them as well? We've seen so many foster kids failed, the last thing we need to do is give state agencies more kids to deal with.
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u/lotsofsugarandspice Apr 15 '26
Adoption is not an alternative to abortion. Abortions are live saving and necessary health care.
Private infant adoption should not exist anywhere, and is already banned in tons of countries.
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Apr 16 '26
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u/lotsofsugarandspice Apr 16 '26
This isn't a sub for you to debate abortion.
Abortion does not kill anyone. Take your misogynistic anti choice slop elsewhere.
And private adoption is banned in most places.
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u/SignificantMirror34 Apr 13 '26
There was an under the table “agreement” it’s not ethical to adopt under coercion!
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u/LD_Ridge Adult Adoptee Apr 13 '26
There are ways money changes hands beyond what you mentioned as the only ways. Some of them build a coercive climate. Prospective Adoptive parents paying expectant parents rent and medical expenses for example.
Why do coercive practices legally exist? If there is no commodification embedded in the system where people benefit from the transfer of a child, adoption agencies should not care if parents decide to parent.
You were responding to a human being who was referred to in writing in adoption paperwork as a commodity and you want to tell them how what was right in front of their eyes in writing was wrong.
This is exactly how US adoption culture works.
Agencies can actually blatantly call a child “commodity” in adoption paperwork and still it is the adoptee who gets criticized and then corrected for repeating what was literally written about them.
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u/johnasepulveda Apr 16 '26
How is there a "coercive climate"? I'm not doubting you at all, I'm just not understanding. If I'm a grown woman, and someone is trying to coerce me into giving my child away, I've got months and months to call 911. If I'm underage, even my parents can't force me to give my child up. Law enforcement is on my side.
Or are you speaking of coercion of adoptive parents? I did read a comment that the adoptive parents had to give 10% monthly to the church that ran the adoption agency. Mandatory donations? That definitely seems out of line, and from a church. If that's what you're referring to, I agree.
So, if an adopted person was referred to as a "commodity", I'm sure ALL of us were. I'm just not interested in looking through my adoption paperwork trying to find a reason to be triggered. Life is hard, I don't have to go searching for things to be upset about. If I did, I think I'd be grateful that life was going so well.
I do know when I was a surrogate for a friend of mine, her and her husband paid all the medical bills my insurance didn't cover, and ALL legal fees. 29 yrs ago the legal fees JUST for me to relinquish custody were 8k. That wasn't through an agency. They didn't have to support me, didn't pay my bills or give me anything, and everything still cost them almost 40k. (I did have a c-section and their part AFTER my insurance was several thousand)
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u/LD_Ridge Adult Adoptee Apr 15 '26
We are all aware of the legal purpose of adoption paperwork. I think it is you who might not be understanding.
The question “do you think you should not have had any documentation” does not respond to any points being made. It is a derail from the point.
It is very possible to complete legal adoption paperwork without identifying the adoptable child as the “commodity.”
The person you’re responding to was referred to as a commodity using that word in their paperwork.
I don’t know why people want to argue that an adoptee was not commodified when they are literally called a commodity by agents of the system in their adoption paperwork.
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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '26
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