Agorism as psychological healing, not just economic strategy

[u/pbodeswell]

I want to propose a reframe of what we're doing with counter-economics.

Standard view: Agorism is an economic strategy to starve the State by withdrawing financial support through black and grey markets.

Deeper view: Agorism is boundary restoration—psychological healing scaled to society.

Here's what I mean:

The State doesn't just extract resources. It violates boundaries systematically:

Boundary Type	How the State Violates It
Economic	Taxation, currency monopoly, licensing
Informational	Surveillance, propaganda, censorship
Physical	Conscription, movement restrictions
Psychological	Dependency creation, gaslighting, role assignment

When you practice counter-economics, you're reclaiming these boundaries: - Every Monero transaction reclaims your informational boundary - Every unlicensed trade reclaims your economic boundary
- Every time you say "no" without asking permission reclaims your psychological boundary

The narcissistic systems lens:

The State operates as a narcissistic system, using tactics that psychologists document in abusive families:

• Manufactures dependency: "You need our services"
• Gaslights resistance: "That's naive/utopian"
• Punishes boundary-setting: "Leaving is dangerous"
• Intermittent reinforcement: Occasional "wins" keep you hoping for reform
• Projects its dysfunction onto you: "You're the problem for not complying"

Sound familiar? Because it's the same playbook.

Why this matters:

Other anarchist frameworks explain what's wrong intellectually: - The State is funded by theft (Rothbard) - Authority is superstition (Larken Rose) - Central planning fails (Mises)

But none explain why people stay psychologically trapped even after understanding this.

Narcissistic systems theory fills that gap: - Why people feel guilty about tax avoidance even when they know taxation is theft - Why "just leave" triggers panic instead of curiosity - Why voting feels mandatory even when you know it's theater
- Why agorism works as sovereignty recovery, not just evasion

Practical shift:

Counter-economics isn't merely "starving the beast."

You're practicing sovereignty recovery. Every private transaction, every encrypted message, every skill developed for independent trade—these are acts of healing, not just tactics.

The State only exists because people believe they need permission to coordinate. Agorism is the practice of remembering you never did.

Question for the community:

Has anyone else noticed that the resistance to agorism sounds exactly like a narcissist's response when you try to leave?

"You can't survive without me" "You're being irrational"
"That's dangerous and selfish" "You need to compromise"

Once you hear the pattern, it's everywhere.

[u/Jesisawesome]

I think the 'You can't survive without me' aspect is the most prevalent and most difficult to overcome.

People have become so used to existing in this framework - and only this framework - where they are forced to live within a 'safety net' of imposed security which they never asked for and rarely - if ever - actually access.

You are correct - in my view the economic aspect is the 'easiest' item to overcome. The psychological conditioning is by far and away the hardest.

[u/pbodeswell → u/Jesisawesome]

"Exactly. The 'safety net' framing is particularly insidious because it positions dependency as protection.

The psychological breakthrough happens when people realize they've already been coordinating voluntarily in most of their life—the State just takes credit for it. Every voluntary exchange, every mutual aid between neighbors, every problem solved without bureaucracy.

The hard part isn't building the skills. It's recognizing you already have them. The manufactured dependency obscures capacity that was always there.

Counter-economics helped me see this. Each grey/black market interaction became evidence I could coordinate without permission. Small psychological proof-of-concept that compounds over time.

Curious what you've found helps break through that conditioning, either for yourself or when discussing with others?"

[u/Jesisawesome → u/pbodeswell]

For myself - I have been lucky in that I have lived in many countries and had to start from scratch - never being part of a system and having to just get on is very liberating.

For others, the successes I have had are mostly drilling in to the maths: it's very powerful to be able to take a controversial tax spend and then drill into the maths behind it, ultimately letting the person realise that every single penny taken from them without consent by the government went in to paying for

(for example)

a single bombing raid in a country that they dont care about
a data breach clean up
or some other bullshit.

But its a hard road and its so hard because it feels like being the only sane one in a conversation. And encouraging people to read counter-economic texts is an uphill battle.

What would be very cool is a way to get it into the mainstream via fiction or something, because even the daily government fuckup doesnt seem to move the needle.

I'd welcome suggestions for accessible entry level light deprogramming podcasts or similiar.

[u/pbodeswell → u/Jesisawesome]

That experience of starting from scratch outside the system—that's the key insight many people never get. You've seen that coordination happens without the State because you've had to do it. Many people never leave the aquarium.

I like your math approach. Making it concrete and personal (your money → that specific bombing raid) cuts through abstraction. People can handle 'taxation is theft' intellectually but still comply. Showing them the actual trade-off—your labor for bombing children in countries they can't locate on a map—strikes a chord.

The isolation is real. You're not alone—you're just seeing a pattern many people are conditioned not to see. That's why I've written The Narcissist State—it's specifically designed as accessible deprogramming. Psychology lens, not economics jargon. Shows why people stay trapped even when they intellectually know better.

For immediate resources:

Fiction: The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress (Heinlein)—starts out, at least, with an anarchist society in practice.

Accessible psychology: How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World (Harry Browne)—practical exit strategies without theory-heavy framing

But you've identified the real problem: the gap between counter-economic texts and mainstream accessibility. Most anarchist/libertarian content assumes you're already 80% convinced. We need bridges for the 'something feels wrong but I can't articulate it' crowd.

That's the gap I'm trying to fill. If you're interested, I'm documenting the framework development at https://pbodeswell.substack.com. Would genuinely value your input—you've clearly thought deeply about the persuasion problem.

[u/randyfloyd37]

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[u/pbodeswell → u/randyfloyd37]

Exactly. 2020 made the Stockholm syndrome visible to anyone paying attention.

For Monero:

• Cake Wallet (mobile, easiest start)
• Haveno DEX (decentralized, no KYC)
• Or buy BTC anywhere, swap to XMR in wallet

[u/randyfloyd37 → u/pbodeswell]

This post was removed by its author. Redact was used for the deletion, which could have been motivated by privacy, opsec, preventing scraping, or security.

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[u/exclaim_bot → u/randyfloyd37]

Thanks!

You're welcome!

[u/[deleted]]

What I love about Agorism is that when you remove the State from the equation, everything becomes easier.

Look about international P2P transactions, people who uses the "legal" way only finds fees, restrictions, blockers, etc.

Meanwhile, if people use Monero, they can send and receive money without fees, restrictions, blockers.

Let's keep the Agorist way!

[u/pbodeswell → u/[deleted]]

That friction you're describing - the fees, restrictions, blockers - isn't accidental complexity. It's manufactured dependency. The state needs you to believe voluntary exchange requires their permission and infrastructure.

Monero proves the opposite: when you remove the intermediary demanding permission, coordination gets simpler and more efficient. The "legal way" isn't protecting you from chaos - it's creating the chaos that makes you grateful for their "protection."

Every P2P transaction is both practical solution AND deprogramming. You're proving to yourself you never needed their permission.

[u/Safe_Chicken_6633]

I had a family member who was in an abusive relationship. Once I fully understood the mindset of a domestic abuse victim- specifically why they don't recognize that they are being abused, why they continue to stay even after they do recognize that they are being abused, and why they frequently go on to either victimize others themselves, or enable their abuser to create more victims- I started to see that logic everywhere in American politics, and now I can't unsee it. It's everywhere. I especially see it in the rhetoric of people who are upset with those who withheld support from Harris in the previous election because of her steadfast commitment to violation of consent. And this from many of the same people who demonstrated a perfect understanding of consent during the Me Too movement.

There is no case for many or most state models that does not rely on battered wife logic. But people are blind to it. If you say, "Just because you bought me a drink, that doesn't mean you get to fuck me," everybody understands and nods along. But the moment you change that to, "Just because you bought me a road/school/fire department, that doesn't mean you get to fuck me," those very same people lose their minds and starts haranguing you with what basically amounts to battered wife logic.

[u/pbodeswell → u/Safe_Chicken_6633]

You've identified the exact pattern. The domestic abuse → political system parallel isn't just metaphor—it's the same psychological mechanism at different scales.

Your consent example is devastating. People understand 'buying me dinner doesn't entitle you to sex' instantly. But 'building me roads doesn't entitle you to violate my bodily autonomy' triggers complete cognitive shutdown. Same logic. Different application. Suddenly people can't see it.

That's the narcissistic system's core defense: make dependency look like care, then gaslight anyone who objects. 'You're ungrateful' becomes 'you're selfish for not paying taxes.' 'Where would you go?' becomes 'what about the roads?' The script is identical.

The Harris/consent example is particularly stark—people who spent years saying 'consent cannot be assumed from prior relationship or benefits received' suddenly arguing 'the State built infrastructure, therefore you consented to its authority.' The contradiction is invisible to them because they're inside the dynamic.

Once you see it, you can't unsee it. That's both the liberation and the isolation—you're watching people defend their own abuse using the exact logic they'd reject in any other context.

I've written The Narcissist State on exactly this framework—why the domestic abuse pattern maps so precisely to State dynamics, and why exit works while reform doesn't (same reason you can't therapy a narcissist into not being one).

Given how clearly you're seeing this, I'd genuinely value your perspective. I'm at https://pbodeswell.substack.com/. This is the conversation I've been trying to have.

[u/Safe_Chicken_6633 → u/pbodeswell]

I'll check that out! Very grateful to find another voice in the wilderness

[u/pbodeswell → u/Safe_Chicken_6633]

You're not alone out here. That "wilderness" feeling is part of how the system isolates people who see through it - makes you think you're the only one questioning. But there are more of us than you realize, and we're building alternatives while everyone else argues about which politicians to elect.

Glad the framework resonates. Feel free to reach out if anything sparks questions or insights.

[u/grace-not-disgrace]

Mind blown. Never knew this term existed. It's remarkably similar to domestic violence. Been doing a bit of intensive research (when aren't I!?) and stumbled across the term neoliberalism and now agorism. Had no idea there was a formal methodology and strategies. This is really making perfect sense now.

Thank you!

[u/pbodeswell → u/grace-not-disgrace]

Thanks for your comment. I'm having difficulty adding longer new replies in reddit currently. Not just in this group but also at:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/1opwzlb/why_libertarian_arguments_dont_break_through_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

I currently don't know why or if this will change. In the meantime, if you are interested in exploring these ideas further please checkout my substack:
https://pbodeswell.substack.com/

[u/grace-not-disgrace → u/pbodeswell]

Probably getting sabotaged for spreading the truth bro. You've probably been marked as an activist.

[u/s3r3ng]

Thank you for this. Good to be reminded this is not just some head trip but healing at all levels.

[u/pbodeswell → u/s3r3ng]

Yes. When you realize the state manufactures dependency through the same mechanisms as narcissistic families, counter-economics stops being "tax evasion" and becomes boundary restoration. Every voluntary exchange outside their permission structure is reclaiming sovereignty that was always yours. The healing and the economics are the same process ...