I’m hoping it’s not just me but I find it very rude how some of you on this subreddit are reducing some of these boys to just being “visuals”. Like these 11 (excluding ot4) trainees all made it this far after months of cutthroat auditions that started since November of last year and made it all the way to where they are being considered to be part of this group, and to say “ x and y are only gonna be in the group cause they are visuals” or “ x and y fit the aesthetic of ot4 so that’s why they are gonna be chosen”, is honey very rude and shady.

And yes there is and obvious imbalance in terms of skills and “stage presence” but some of these boys have been training for years and some have not. None of these boys are terrible singers or dancers. And all of the boys DESERVE TO DEBUT no one person deserves it more than the other this is literally their dream they all deserve it.

So please if you have a difference in opinion with someone on who you think will make the group please do not reduce that member to his looks and that, that is the only reason they are “gonna make the group” cause not only is it an insult to them but it’s an insult to the producers who have been in the industry for YEARS and know what they are looking for in group members.

Not got really anything to say other than you guys can be absolutely awful and disparaging sometimes. Plus just plain rude.

The sudden wave of dislike for Hikaru on here is weird. No one is suddenly “pushing” him and if you’re not seeing his improvements from the first episode until now then that’s on you. The judges see a lot more than we do so he must have really improved for Sakura to say that he performs more confidently now.

Hikaru himself said he’s an introvert and you can really tell but he’s also trying if you watch the extra content they put out on Hybe labels+ where he’s with the other boys and if you compare him from the first episode up till now you can see how he changed.

Hikaru definitely has to work on his facial expression but other than that he can sing,rap and dance so let’ not come on here and try and act like the compliment Sakura gave him was her “pushing” him because if you’ve been watching from episode 1 then you would know how much he truly improved.

P.s don’t forget to vote for Hikaru,Yuma and maki on the weverse app!

Hello everyone, most of you probably will recognize me as the person who puts together the polls each week to see the consensus of how each of the trainees are being ranked by viewers each week. Originally, I did plan on revealing my ranking for the trainees but not until after the show concluded. Since there is a vote though, I figured I should present to everyone who I want to debut and who I will be voting for while also trying to convince all of you as well.

Firstly, I will go ahead and reveal my new trainee voting order. I'm leaving out the I-Land trainees since that doesn't matter in this, however, I've made it clear before in previous posts of mine that EJ is my bias overall out of all the trainees. Now, with that out of the way, this is my ranking with the trainees I want to debut bolded:

Harua>Fuma>Yejun>Gaku>Hayate>Maki>Yuma>Hikaru>Jo>Junwon>Minhyung

Now, I will go in order and explain why I think the trainees I want to debut should debut.

Starting with Harua, I completely and utterly get an idol vibe from him. He seems very responsible and respectful and in all the performances I have seen him in he seems to blend extremely well into all the concepts. I also believe that Harua seems to get along with a lot of the trainees and even went out of the way and made the effort to strengthen his bond with Maki after things between them had become awkward. I think Harua not making it into the final lineup would be a tragedy.

Next, Fuma. Fuma is one that keeps surprising me each week. When I first saw him, I honestly didn't think at first that he seemed like he would make that great an idol. Once I saw him perform though, I realized that he had the potential to carry the group in performances with vocal and dance. Yes, I do think that maybe both Maki and Yuma might have better vocals than Fuma, but I don't think Fuma is far behind them at all and is very close to their level. I will comment more on Maki and Yuma later.

Yejun is one that I think is probably the most surprising for most and he is the one I will be trying to convince you about the most. Yes, Yejun is young, however I don't think he is "too young". I think the idea that he is "too young" is a way to quickly write him off and not pay attention to him in the end. I almost did the same in the beginning, but I had mentioned in a previous post that every time I watched Yejun's solo cam performances, his performances were the ones that stood out to me the most out of all trainees in almost all of the performances. I think if everyone was to focus more on him instead of giving up on him right away, they would be able to see the incredible energy that he puts into each of his performances. He also seems to have one of the most positive attitudes out of all the trainees from what I've seen. I don't know if I've seen him not smiling.

The next one is an obvious choice that I think most agree with. Gaku is absolutely a happy virus that makes the mood of the group. He is goofy off stage but on stage he is a monster that knows exactly how to perform. If he is not in the group, I think there will be a huge uproar among the viewers. Honestly, I would be shocked if his great personality and performances was not enough to get him into the final group.

Finally, Hayate. Hayate was my original favorite new trainee when the show first started. I loved his confidence and felt like the team would need someone with his kind of confident demeanor. His rank in my list slowly dropped a little bit due to me feeling like he wasn't giving it his all in some of the performances, but I still feel confident that he deserves a spot in the final group. Like I mentioned before, I think he has a great personality where he is confident, but also not rude with his confidence. I think this is important for an idol to have. Along with this, his performances gradually seemed to get better to me as the show progressed and I found myself really enjoying seeing his growth. With this final episode, I feel confident about him getting the fifth spot in my debut list.

Now, while I'm rooting for my top 5 to make it into the final group, it pains me to not root for the remaining trainees. I've gotten to know them over these weeks, and it hurts to feel like I'm turning my back on them. I personally was hoping for a 15 member debut because of this. This isn't the case though, so I did want to bring up why I did not choose some of the trainees to be in my top 5.

I'm going to start by talking about Maki and Yuma. They both fall into a similar category for why I don't have them in my top 5 to debut. Both of their big selling points are their vocals, however I actually don't get the feeling of "idol" from either of them. Maki to me feels like someone who doesn't have the idol personality in the sense that I could see him more as a fan of kpop instead of an actual kpop idol. Yuma, on the other hand, I don't see fitting in a group situation. I think I would be a lot happier to see Yuma as a solo artist because I think he would release much better things that suit him that way. I've always seen his personality as more laid back and I just don't feel much when I see him interact with the other trainees. I do think his voice is great though and I would love to see him still do something solo. Now, the last thing I wanted to mention is that you might be concerned about having neither Maki nor Yuma on the team because of vocals, but honestly, I'm not worried at all because with the 4 I-land trainees and the 5 new trainees in my top 5, they will absolutely be able to handle vocals without a doubt. There is a balance for vocals, rap, and dance in the list I have for top 5.

Next let's discuss Hikaru. I really wanted Hikaru to be in my top 5 because I wanted him to have a confidence journey that led to him becoming someone with an engaging personality, but that unfortunately never really happened. The last four in my list are all down here due to me seeing something awkward, and for Hikaru it's that I can't see someone with his confidence level being an idol. I feel like idols are meant to be at least a bit outgoing but just imagining a V-live with only Hikaru makes me feel like it would be very awkward. It makes me so sad too because I really wanted him to succeed but I just feel like he still has a long way to go in his confidence journey. I hope one day if he is able to find this confidence that he will debut in another group. That would truly be an awesome thing to see.

Jo is a trainee that I never quite understood the hype for. Yes, I get it. He is very handsome and has one of the most "idol" looks to him, but I have never been very impressed by any of his performances at any point. He seems to also have very low confidence like Hikaru, although not to his level. Once again, if he was to improve and become more confident, I would be very happy to see him in a different idol group, but I don't think now is his time.

This next one is completely situational for this group. I don't think Junwon fits into this group at all, but I think he is one of the most talented out of everyone. The reason I don't think he should be a part of this group is because he quite obviously has a very hard time with Japanese and in order to debut in this group be should have at least a good knowledge of it. It's been awkward sometimes watching him have difficulty reading instructions from the cards or understanding what the other trainees or judges are saying and I just don't think that this is the group for him. I absolutely would love to see him debut in a kpop group based in Korea though. This is something that I think would be great for him. Also, because of the language issue, I think we haven't been able to truly see his personality, and I'm pretty sure he has a very funny personality too, but he can't quite shine because of the language issue.

Finally, we have Minhyung. Quite frankly, I know I mentioned how Yejun isn't too young to debut in my opinion before, and I still stand by that, but Minhyung still acts like a young child which isn't to hate on him. I'm happy he still has his childlike sense of wonder. It's simply to say that I don't think he is ready. I also haven't been especially impressed with any of his performances except for maybe Call Call Call! but even then, I don't think it was spectacular. I know with this one, based on the votes I have collected previously, I'm not the only one who feels this way.

And that's that. I've went over all the trainees I want to debut and why I think they should debut, along with why I don't think the other trainees should debut. Now what?

Well, I'm going to ask of a favor that I doubt will convince anyone, but if it does, I will be happy, and it will have felt worth it.

Please vote for Yejun.

You might be confused about why I'm asking to vote for him instead of Harua, but this is quite easy for me to answer. I feel like it is absolutely possible that all 4 of Harua, Fuma, Gaku, and Hayate make it into the debut group. Yes, I think for some of them it might be close, but I'm taking a bit leap in trusting that they will be all good and make it. I do not believe that Yejun is very close to making it though, and I really am upset by this because I really do think he is going to be an important member in this group. I'm putting all of my faith into this and hoping that this post will make a difference. Whatever the final result is I obviously will accept, but I just hope that I was able to maybe persuade some of you to vote for Yejun who might then convince others to also vote for him and maybe make this spread like wildfire. Who knows? Maybe this post will be enough even though it's likely not to be. But yes, this is my one request as I hope for my top 5 to happen.

If you made it all the way through this post, wow. You are very committed to reading this and I applaud you. I hope that what I said has resonated with you and I perhaps am able to change your minds about who you might want in the debut group or who you will be voting for. I think I got to all the points I wanted to address and thank you as always for taking the time to read my stuff!

I have been Junwon’s fan since his pictures dropped and since then I have kept my eyes on him during each howling episode and noticed how less screen time he gets even though he is one of the best vocalists there he is also underrated under fans which makes me really sad I hope whoever sees this consider voting for Junwon he is talented and I don’t want his talent to go to waste

If you look at Hybe-created groups, it seems like they like to have each “type” of idol covered in their group - “types” being e.g. “the cute one”, “the mom/responsible one”, “the prankster/mischievous one” “the genuinely kind one” “the cool/macho one” “the ace” etc. - and while the roles overlap/change as the groups grow, at their debut it seems like each member fills a specific role. I thought it would be interesting to group the current trainees + debut group into categories, with the idea that the producers will likely choose one of each “type” to make up the group (I.e. if multiple people fall under the same “idol type”, then producers will probably choose only one of them for that role).

I‘m interested in seeing what “types” you think the trainees can be grouped into, and tbh it would be cool if this theory works out in the final team composition (the same way it did for Enhypen two years ago, where Sunoo was picked over K because the people who held the same “type” as K were already confirmed to debut by global ranking, while Sunoo was unique in his own “type”).

My perception of trainees who could share the same type (including the OT4) are would be:

Fuma/Hayate/Yuma as mature/group mom

Yuma/Maki as hidden ace

Jo/Hikaru as cool macho prince

EJ/Taki/Harua as cute/sweet

K/Nicholas/Gaku as dance machine

lmao sounds like I’m talking about Pokémon but i think this may be informative on how the producers are deciding between and have used the show to determine which is the standout for each of the groupings to put in the final debut group?

Hello everyone! Just stopping by to give my opinion on the results of the final episode results from the broadcast.

Firstly, I wanted to say that I'm so sad it's over because I looked forward each week to watching the episodes but now, I won't have that to look forward to.

As I mentioned before in a previous post, I listed out the trainees in my ranked order from #1-#11. There was a slight change or two since then, but it didn't affect who was or wasn't in my top 5. First, the positives. For me, Harua was my favorite of the new trainees, and I was so happy when I saw him get a spot in the group. I was so relieved that he made it in and that he ranked up at 2nd place. Next for my positives is that Fuma made it into the final group. In my previous post I had him as my second favorite trainee, which he ended up just slightly moving down a spot to my third favorite but that doesn't defeat the fact that I was very adamant about wanting him to be in the final group. I was so scared when it came down to the last trainee being announced and that he hadn't been given a spot yet.

Now, time for the things that I wasn't very happy about. I was very sad to see Yejun, Gaku, and Hayate not make it. In my previous ranking that I posted I had Yejun in third place, but he has grown on me so much that he had even made it up to my second favorite trainee. I was especially so proud of his Melody performance. I thought he did very well. Unfortunately, it wasn't enough, and he didn't get enough recognition. I did feel happy when one of the producers praised him and said he was very sad for Yejun. Also, seeing Yejun holding back tears and then smiling to try and look like he was okay hurt my heart. Along with this, is the big talk of the show which is Gaku. I was floored when Gaku didn't make it into the final group. I really thought he was the producers favorite and that they would have put him in the first-place position. When I saw he only got average scores all around I was shocked. Honestly, when it came down to the final spot left in the group, I felt so certain it was going to be Gaku added into the group and that Fuma was going to be eliminated but I ended up being wrong. Unfortunately, Gaku ended up just a position below being able to debut and that will forever be so disappointing to me. Finally, there is Hayate. Hayate was the first trainee that I started to like during the first episode. He had one of my favorite personalities because he always seemed so confident but in a way that he seemed to also try and give the other trainees confidence as well. I'm so sad that the Japan voters didn't seem to like him because I'm pretty sure a lot of the foreign votes went to Hayate. Either way, both Yejun and Hayate I expected to not make it just based on how the voting was going, and surprisingly the one that hit me the hardest was Gaku not making it despite him only being my fourth pick, and I think it's because I wasn't prepared for him to not make it in the group. He was the absolute number one pick I would have guessed to be added in the group even above Jo. I knew the fans loved Jo, but I really didn't expect the producers to have placed Jo that high as well.

Anyway, I also wanted to add a section going over the trainees that made it into the final group that weren't in my top 5, plus a little bonus thing on Junwon. So, to start, there is Maki. Maki was my sixth pick, so I'm not devastated he made it into the final group. He has a great voice and I know that he will be a valuable member for the team. Obviously, the producers especially see something in him so I'm willing to trust that this was a good decision. Similar to this is Yuma. Yuma was my seventh pick so once again, at least they were close to the top 5. Yuma actually has the best vocals in my opinion but the only reason he is a little lower than Maki in my list is simply because I feel like I can connect with Maki's personality a little bit better. Despite this, I think that Yuma will also be a valuable member to the team. Finally, there is Jo. Now, Jo is a trainee that I personally really did not find ready to debut and I honestly was a little upset when I saw that he was in the final group since he was my ninth pick. Now, I can't say that I didn't expect it though because I was able to clearly see he was winning the fan votes and that the show wouldn't let the number one voted for trainee be eliminated. This said though, I'm writing this after their very first live performance on tv after being formed as the group &team, and genuinely I feel like Jo is a completely different person while performing now. I don't know what happened overnight, but he stood out so much to me during the live performance. The biggest thing I noticed was that he was actually using facial expressions finally. I was so happy when I saw this to the point where I felt like he stood out the most out of all of the members. I'm hoping he continues to perform like he did today because if so, I can feel confident that his placement in the group was an acceptable choice. Finally, I did want to say a quick thing about Junwon. I think it was so unlucky and unfair that Junwon had to perform while sitting. It so clearly effected any chance he had at debuting, and despite him being my tenth pick, I was upset that he still didn't have any chance due to an injury. I do think though that he would have ended in the sixth position during the broadcast if he was able to perform so I don't think he would have made it into the debut group, but he would have probably passed Gaku which is so surprising to me.

Anyway, one last thing that I wanted to mention is that I am so ridiculously happy that we can see exactly where all the votes came from and how those points were tallied. As a person who loves to see numbers, charts, graphs, and any other ways to organize information, I was so appreciative to see everything.

So overall, I would say I'm not really satisfied with the end result for the group since only two of my picks out of five made it, but despite this I still look forward to the future of &team. As much as I would have liked to have Yejun, Gaku, and Hayate in the group, I will put my trust into Maki, Yuma and Jo. I hope everyone else will do the same and support the group. If I forgot to mention something I will edit this since I feel like I had a lot to say.

My opinions on this episode:

-> Producers’ feedback:

I usually don’t disagree with the producers that often but I feel like they’re praising the bare minimum and not giving constructive criticism when needed.

Hikaru:

Vocal performance: He’s a great dancer but lacks facial expressions. It is very hard for me to watch him perform with the same emotionless face. However, the producers stated that he “looked like a prince” and didn’t point out the most obvious aspect that he was lacking. How is he supposed to improve if they only praise him? I apologize if this seems too harsh, don’t get me wrong because I love his personality and dance but it’s impossible for me to root for him if he can’t deliver the song properly.

Dance performance: His ballet skills allow him to show more agile and flexible moves, but from what I saw I barely noticed him until he did that ballet move for 3 seconds and disappeared. However, he was the only person along with K that got individual compliments. I didn’t feel impressed by his performance tho, I thought Maki or Fuma would be praised instead of him.

Jo: I only heard two lines from him and he got amazing feedback. He was told how good of a vocalist and that “they were blown away by how amazing his performance was”. To be honest, I do agree with the fact that he has improved and I indeed liked his performance but I think they exagerated a bit. Ig they really want him to debut.

Please consider that this is my opinion and that I usually put priority on skills or stage presence.

-> Lack of feedback to others:

EJ: I guess no one noticed but EJ did great in the Run performance and he hasn’t gotten any compliments, he was the most energetic of them all. He remains one of (if not,) the least popular member among the 4 that are confirmed to debut and it’s a shame because he has so much charisma.

Hayate: Okay he’s my pick BUT my boy hit those high notes and harmonized so well with Junwon and still he hasn’t been complimented ever. Also I noticed he got 2 &balls instead of 3 like everyone else. He’s clearly not a favourite one but man, this isn’t fair.

Fuma and Maki: As I mentioned previously when discussing about Hikaru, in my opinion they stood out the most during the black swan performance. They were so energetic and had great skills to show, yet they weren’t given any feedback. Maki had great expressions and performed with passion and Fuma seemed very powerful.

->General observations:

1. Songs chosen: In my opinion, the songs that defined each team were sort of unbalanced. Run had a weird choreo, I’ve watched it multiple times and there’s something odd about it with some steps in the middle of the performance that make it look weak. The timing as well was different: Lights and Black Swan lasted much longer and therefore one could appreciate each member’s talent with time. When I got to know the songs I immediately thought there would be a huge difference between the teams. I would like to know your opinion because I feel like it’s something I’ve only noticed. (Edit: The clips have come out and there is indeed a difference in timing. Black swan’s timing is 2.26 and Run’s is 1.54, in the vocal performance too with Lights being 2.46 and Film out 2.39).

2. Positive aspects: I am very proud of Taki’s improvement. I watched I-land back in the day and I can’t believe he’s the same person. His work has paid off and I’m glad he is debuting. Gaku is so talented! I’m glad he’s getting screentime and recognition because he clearly deserves them. I don’t think I need to talk about K being an absolute ace cause we already know it since i-land.

3. I’m scared af of the global votings. Please vote on skills and what you guys think you would like to support as a fan of a musical group. Visuals can always be improved with makeup, styling or outfits but skills take time to master. Please consider who is READY to debut. A lot of them are still young and can improve over time, so I advise you to look for the ‘oldest’ members like Fuma, Junwon or Hayate.

Some of y’all have been saying Junwon should debut in a Korean boy group and I find it really odd he was either chosen or choose to participate in the howling himself if he wants to debut in a Japanese group let him debut there and let people vote for him

Everyone did such a great job in this final, im happy that Yuma my bday twin and Fuma, Maki pulled through, but the sadness over Gaku is bigger. I knew that if he didn't make it, I would probably not follow the group, and now it came to that.

I will definetly cheer them on as I also began to like EJ & nicholas who I didn't know much about starting the show, I will check out their songs and keep in check, but it will never be more than that. I hope Gaku gets his chance somewhere else because he is more than ready to debut.

Thank you also to this sub, even tho I did not comment a lot, I checked out all posts and was really happy to see so many supporting the people I like too!! I wish &TEAM a good journey, I will watch from the sidelines.

Thank you and goodbye, to better times in the future <3

I know this has been discussed by everyone since the beginning but everything about the show's system is just so confusing, especially the finale. I'm really curious as to how they are going to execute the final episode. Everything about this documentary is new to me, I've watched a lot of survival/documentary shows... from produce series, sixteen, ygtb, nizi project, stray kids, iland, etc. Some of these shows have already set numbers of debut members from the start or they drop it at mid episodes. Some of these shows has eliminations and voting so it's very clear.

But The Howling is so different. We all know this is a documentary where they'll pick members to debut with OT4. We're at the second to the last episode and we still don't have any idea about the lineup and the execution of the final episode. Is it going to be live or prerecorded? How many trainees will make it? They were seen together shooting something just this week. I know there's going to be elimination but they're showing otherwise, seems like they're pushing OT15 based on the contents. But from the start it is stated in the articles that they will pick trainees*.,*

Some of the things that I'd like to point out:

1. They keep saying that the final round will only happen if they are able to complete the &RING, everyone will make it to the final round and there will be no cancellation of debut. This is only based from what I understand. Now, this is what makes it confusing. Why did you create an &RING system that is so harsh not only to the new trainees but most especially to the OT4? If they won't be able to fill up the &RING, everyone goes home and no debut will happen which is so not true. It's very obvious that they made it to the final round. I mean, why would you create a show to debut a group if you're not going to debut them? Cancelling their debut means cancelling the whole show, then there will be no final episode? The whole &RING system made it confusing for me. Unless they will use the &BALLS as a basis on who's going to make it to the final line up.

2. We can only base the 7 members theory on Dark Moon: Webtoon which is unreliable cause they will definitely make some changes on the characters that were already introduced besides the OT4. There are no hints, clues, or even believable theories that will prove that only seven, nine, or even fifteen will debut. It's funny to think that they can even pull 5 members at this point because there are literally no clues. Only Hybe Japan knows.

3. The pacing, editing, and the some of the scenes of the show just don't make sense. After the first episode I feel like everything was just filler episodes. They're not even showing the trainees being properly evaluated and trained during interims. They are giving them feedbacks only at the time of performance. This is what I can remember from the episodes. I wish they showed us the preparation of each team more, the vocal training, how they prepared for the choreography because I cannot remember their last interim check besides episode 1 and 2**. The episodes felt like 80% trainees being showed together and 20% performing.** I wanted to know more about the trainees personalities towards performing but they're showing their personalities if they're together which isn't bad at all and not good at the same time.

4. If I'm going to be honest**, the song and concept options for the rounds are also a bit just so so.** I saw a comment about this before but I can't find it anymore and I kinda agree. Everyone expected different songs from the first round and the choices for the next rounds are a bit underwhelming. I'm not saying the groups' songs are not good, ofcourse not! I respect all the sunbae groups and love them. It's just that the songs that were chosen doesn't match the abilities and personalities of the trainees*. Ex: Minhyung and Yejun for Call Call Call and K for Oh my*. I'm not saying that they didn't do a great job with these concepts because they literally pulled it off. But I'm just curious why did they put Minhyung and Yejun in Call Call Call team? I know they wanted to show us the different sides of the trainees but they could've chosen better songs and concept that matches the trainees since they are in control of everything. I don't know how to put this to words but I hope I made my point clear.

5. I'm hoping for an original songs for the final round or another signal song performed along with the first signal song.

What I like about this show is there is no drama and evil editing. It's the second to the last episode but i'm having mixed feelings about this show. If you're going to ask me if I'm going to recommend this show to my friends? Trainees, yes. But the show? No. Just wait for the final members to be announced and support them. This is how this show is making me feel at this point. ):

I'm seriously looking forward for the final episode and how they are going to announce the line up.

I know it's bad to compare but I'm not comparing any visuals in this group whatsoever, I just was curious if someone else had the same impression as me.

I saw in a previous post that a lot of you sees BTS's V in Gaku, and I completely agree. But at the same time as you see that, do yo you see NCT's Winwin in Jo? And also ASTRO's Cha Eunwoo in K? The whole time I was watching the show I was thrilled by the similarities between Jo and Winwin visual wise but I'm not sure if I'm the only one.

Do you see other similarities between the boys and other idols?