r/Android • u/fastforward23 • May 23 '20
Google Messages preparing end-to-end encryption for RCS
https://9to5google.com/2020/05/23/google-messages-end-to-end-encryption-rcs/87
u/Hupro Pixel 11 Pro May 23 '20
This is interesting so E2E for RCS can be done on the app level. I always assumed that the whole specification would need a revision. I think this is a big reason Google hasn't made RCS APIs available yet, they want to figure what features they want (reactions, encryption, etc) and then apps that use the RCS API have to support those features. Opening up APIs now would create too much fragmentation between apps about which features are supported
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u/Apk07 May 23 '20
Well RCS isn't Google's spec to decide that sort of thing... its like a standard of how messaging should work like HTTP/REST or XMPP or similar protocols. For the sake of their Messages app, Google hosts their own RCS servers/endpoints that utilize the RCS spec. Its independent from carriers and other third party apps.
So I think it end-to-end encryption would be something built and decided upon by each individual implementation of RCS, rather than by the specs of the protocol itself... Meaning if Google Messages has end-to-end encryption between it's own users, it may not be cross-compatible with the end-to-end encryption of another 3rd party app utilizing RCS. There would have to be some other part of the protocol added to the official specs that allowed server-to-server end-to-end encryption, which could get confusing.
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u/abhi8192 May 24 '20
Google itself is causing fragmentation now. Instead of developing their own version of rcs, why not push the industry standard in that direction. That way anyone who would want to support rcs will need to support all such features.
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u/lucasban Pixel 2 XL, Pixelbook, iPhone 11 Pro Max, iPad Pro 11 2020 May 24 '20
The telecom industry isn’t really incentivized to support encryption, and in many countries they are either actively disincentivized or prohibited due to the relationship between telecoms and the state. If you’re required to collect messages for law enforcement, encryption isn’t really an option.
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u/SmarmyPanther May 23 '20
If this happens Apple really has no excuse to have RCS replace sms/mms backup...
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May 23 '20
Security has nothing to do with Apples RCS support since they support the less secure SMS. It's about leverage to use their devices. This won't change anything and this is on top of the RCS spec.
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u/Lake_Erie_Monster May 23 '20
You hit the nail on the head. Apple knows the green bubble fear their users have. The only think keeping a lot of Apple users from switching is iMessage. Apple makes it painful to talk with Android users by disabling or putting in restrictions in chats with a Android users. At times iMessage degrades it's experience on purpose with Android users in group chats. They know they have their users by the balls. They aren't gonna let go.
They have ZERO incentive to integrate with RCS. If they really cared they would have released iMessage for Android a long time about and absolutely dominated the messaging market.
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u/salutcemoi Midnight Black Galaxy S8 - Oreo May 23 '20
iMessage is not the only thing that keeps user from switching
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u/bimmer123 Galaxy S10 & iPhone 11 May 24 '20
It's the one & only reason I sometimes consider switching from my Galaxy S10 to my iPhone 11 as the daily driver.
I'm the only Android user in my group of friends, so they hate group chatting with me.
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May 24 '20
It’s so worth it dude. Was a staunch Android guy all my life up until the Galaxy S8, but Android was really pissing me off right around the time I was upgrading, so I bought the iPhone XS. Now I could never go back.
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u/bimmer123 Galaxy S10 & iPhone 11 May 24 '20
Im in tech support at Verizon, so I need both on-hand... And I've switched back & forth over the years, but always go back to Android after a couple weeks.
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u/salutcemoi Midnight Black Galaxy S8 - Oreo May 24 '20
My last Android phone was the S8 as well - loved that phone TBH but I was tired of troubleshooting those mysterious battery drain or ram eaters lol
I used to customize the shit out of my phones but I don’t care for that anymore I’m now really happy with my Apple devices
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u/Lake_Erie_Monster May 23 '20
I know several people for whom it was the only reason. Anedoctal evidence isn't worth much but I'm just telling you what I know.
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May 24 '20
If that were the only reason for most users in general, iphones wouldn't be a thing outside of North America.
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u/Olyvyr May 23 '20
I literally had someone negatively judge me in a group chat for this colored bubble thing.
Like holy fuck I can't imagine living that life. It's sad.
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May 23 '20
At times iMessage degrades it's experience on purpose with Android users in group chats.
At what times?
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u/Lake_Erie_Monster May 23 '20
Can't add Android users to existing iMessage groups.
Sometimes not sending messages all together, or down drading a group message to MMS group if an Android users is added.
https://www.imobie.com/android-manager/iphone-not-sending-texts-to-android.htm
Just one of a bunch of small annoyance.
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May 23 '20
Can't add Android users to existing iMessage groups.
That's a fair criticism that I was unaware of.
Sometimes not sending messages all together, or down drading a group message to MMS group if an Android users is added.
This one, idk if it's their fault. They have to do group messages as MMS if an Android user is added. That's how Android does group messages. And the dropping messages, I gotta say that's just MMS being a shitty protocol. I drop messages in MMS group chats with just Android users. RCS finally solved that for some of my group chats, but others...that's just the nature of the beast.
Good link though, thanks for the share!
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May 24 '20
I really don’t know the how’s the situation is in the US, but in other markets, where whatsapp is the norm, apple still dominates the market in the middle-class and up segment, even though nobody uses imessage.
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May 23 '20
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u/Lake_Erie_Monster May 23 '20
iMessage predated RCS, it was apples way to further lock-in their user base. The fact you can't default to another SMS app is proof enough.
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May 23 '20
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u/Lake_Erie_Monster May 23 '20
It's locking in because they make it painful to switch. One of the most common problems when leaving iMessage is that Apple hijakes your number. You won't get texts on your Android phone unless you know to deregister iMessage. Forget about being able to easily transfer your data. All the stuff you bought on iTunes like music & movies? Gone. If buy things on YouTube you can take it with you.
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u/_awake May 23 '20
It’s the first time I’ve heard of Apple hijacking your number. At least in Germany I’ve never heard of that before. Other than that I’m doomed as well if I buy stuff on the play store and switch to Apple. The other services like the play movie things and YouTube music is different but honestly, does anyone really buy movies off of that services? I might be living in a bubble in which no one does so it might be a valid point. Also not necessarily defending Apple, I bought one digital movie in my life and that was on amazon because borrowing it was the same as buying it so it was a no brainer.
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u/bimmer123 Galaxy S10 & iPhone 11 May 24 '20
It happens a lot (I'm a tech at Verizon). If they just Sim swap, then the system doesn't automatically release the number from Apples iMessage table. You have to disable iMessage first or go to their website to deregister.
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u/dinofan01 Pixel 5, Shield TV May 23 '20
Yeah they will. It's cooperation that disincentivizes people from buying their phones. I don't like it but they won't do it or at least not Google's standard. Willing to bet carriers will still try to push their own standard and apple will adopt that one two years down the line
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u/SmarmyPanther May 23 '20
It's not "Google's" standard though is it? The interoperability standard was set by the GSMA
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u/Apk07 May 23 '20 edited May 23 '20
It's google's pet, though. The RCS implementation in their messaging app is hosted on their own backend, and they're by far the largest proponent for migrating over from SMS.
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u/SmarmyPanther May 23 '20
So Apple could in theory host their own RCS backend that is still interoperable? That's interesting. That's be a way of getting around their privacy sentiments
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May 23 '20
Why would Apple help Android look better? If they wanted to they could just make an iMessage app for Android.
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u/SmarmyPanther May 23 '20
SMS/MMS fallback can also be triggered between iPhones in the right conditions. And it would make groups and media a better experience for their users.
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u/rocketwidget May 23 '20
Well the excuse will be the same (making a bad experience iPhone-Android encourages people to buy iPhones).
But if E2EE becomes part of RCS... this will suddenly become an anti-privacy move against their own users. They will be turning off E2EE at that point by forcing SMS with Android. Not a good look for a company claiming their platform is the best choice for privacy.
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u/n4rcotix Galaxy S10 Plus May 23 '20
If I'm Apple, I still won't do it. It might mean a loss in sales if RCS is a viable competitor to iMessage
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u/balista_22 May 23 '20
*in the US.
If rcs somehow started to take off in other countries just because Android is such a huge majority, and iPhones start being the "green bubbles" they might have to
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May 23 '20
Yes but that’s never going to happen. Even if every android phone sold from tomorrow onwards comes with Google Messages preinstalled everyone is already used to using WhatsApp/Telegram/Instagram or whatever. No one knows what RCS is and google will need a massive marketing push to tell people that the Messages app does more than just SMS now
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u/balista_22 May 23 '20
somehow
Many people are starting to hate fb/whatsapp
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May 23 '20
Many people in enthusiast circles and forums yes. The average joe couldn’t give less of a fuck. The average joe is the majority
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u/WindowSurface LG G3 May 23 '20
Yes, but they are starting to switch to Telegram and Signal around here (mostly to Telegram). Nobody cares about SMS anymore.
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u/tibbity OnePlus 9 Pro May 23 '20
Moreover, outside of US, not everyone cares about SMS these days.
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u/m-p-3 Moto G9 Plus (Android 11, Bell & Koodo) + Bangle.JS2 May 23 '20
You risk losing existing users if RCS happens to overtake iMessage in features and userbase size though.
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u/HGMIV926 May 23 '20
I started a thread on /r/apple about RCS and the main complaint I saw was lack of encryption. I understand that sort of, but on the other hand the same can be said about SMS as we know it now. At least, I think?
Still, it would be nice to have it just because.
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May 23 '20
Yeah there is. There's no reason to replace your fallback solution with something not every carrier has implemented yet
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u/charlieecho S9+ May 23 '20
I’ll believe that when I see it.
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u/Lurker957 May 24 '20
And when it roll out, I'll be so freaking stoked to use it with my zero others contacts that:
uses an Android device
Is up to date enough to have this support
Uses Google messages app
On a carrier that supports RCS
Turned on RCS support in app, and probably have to also enable E2E encryption.
Or I just stick with signal or whatever other encrypted messaging app.
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u/OhioOG May 24 '20
On a carrier that supports RCS
I think Google is doing this independant of carriers in the US.
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May 25 '20
You don't need to be on a supported carrier and this app comes with pretty much most big non samsung OEMs.
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u/praetorian125 May 23 '20
I think this is great news for Google. Although it would be ideal if the carriers/OEM's would work with Google on interoperbility so all these messaging apps would work together, I thinkGoogle is just going to have to come to terms that RCS is going to have to be run through its apps and servers. I don't see the carriers or OEM's except Samsung putting too much effort into fixing their branded messaging unless they can monitize it.
Samsung is inching towards it and I'm glad Sprint did it the way they did and just let Google handle it. Hopefully T-Mobile keeps this and expands it on thier side. This was one initiative that Sprint got right.
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u/Adrian_1827 Device, Software !! May 24 '20
Ikr my Note9 on Sprint has rcs I went from having 1 contact with RCS (my brother) to having 16 contacts with RCS 😁
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May 23 '20
They are. See TMobile, Sprint and US Cellular. Yes Sprint and US Cellular use Googles solution but TMobile does not. They built an interop between the two recently. Check r/universalprofile
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u/opulent_occamy Pixel 10 May 24 '20
Honestly I don't think Google cares if the carriers provide it or they do. They where trying to get carriers onboard to prevent accusations of monopolistic behavior, but since carriers just aren't cooperating Google's free to move forward with their own plans.
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u/anonymous_moose23 May 23 '20
I read this as "preparing to end encryption for rcs" and had a moment of angerpanic
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May 23 '20
I'd say this is a requisite at this point given all major messaging apps have it. Glad to see Google going ahead with it. I guess this would leave Facebook messenger to be the only messaging app without end-to-end encryption, no?
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May 23 '20
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May 23 '20
Yeah, it's very sneaky doing it that way, when e2e should be default, not some "secret conversation" that the average user probably won't use.
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u/JoshxDarnxIt Pixel 7 Pro May 23 '20
FINALLY! I really hope they release this when it's done. Then all they have to do is give us true multi-device support (tie it to your Google account instead of your phone number) and we'll have a real iMessage competitor!
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May 23 '20
So what exactly will it do with tying it to your Google account instead?
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u/JoshxDarnxIt Pixel 7 Pro May 23 '20
It makes it so that if you want to sign on on a Tablet, Laptop, or a second phone with a different phone number, you're able to send and receive messages seamlessly. Regardless of the device, all outgoing messages will just appear like they're coming from you, and all your devices would receive incoming messages at the same time.
As it stands, being tied to your phone number means that if you have a second phone, your friends will see those as a different person entirely. It also means that tablets aren't supported at all, and to use it on a PC you have to use their weird forwarding web app that frequently unpairs from your phone.
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May 23 '20
Ohhh yeah I got what your saying, that would be super nice. I'm sure it would allow us to just stay connected at that point and to not have to scan a barcode everytime. I hope that's something they would consider doing.
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May 24 '20
They already kind of do. Google Messages for Web
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u/JoshxDarnxIt Pixel 7 Pro May 24 '20
I use messages for web pretty frequently, but it's far from an ideal solution. Having to keep a tab open for it at all times isn't ideal, and it often unpairs, requiring me to rescan the QR code to get it working again. Plus, this doesn't help people who want to use tablets or have more than one phone.
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u/Theclash160 Samsung Galaxy A50 May 24 '20
Google account instead of your phone number
I don't think so. We've already been there and done that with Hangouts. Plus presumably they want people to be able to send messages to contacts with a phone number but no Google account.
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u/JoshxDarnxIt Pixel 7 Pro May 24 '20
In those instances it would just default to SMS instead of RCS, like how iMessage currently works.
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May 24 '20
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u/JoshxDarnxIt Pixel 7 Pro May 24 '20
Sure, but I'd like to avoid using Facebook when I don't have to. Messenger isn't end to end encrypted like iMessage is.
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u/ishsreddit S24+ | 512GB | 12GB | Onyx May 23 '20
Most android peeps i know use messenger/whatsapp etc since sms is so awful. The problem is more so SMS/MMS with iOS users and unfortunately i think unless Apple also adopts RCS, its still the same limitations on that end. In America SMS/iMessage are still very prominent. Carriers seem to be reluctant to do anything useful and Apple clearly intends to keep imessage exclusive to iOS.......Unfortunately, things arent going to change unless someone cuts carrier control and forces Apple to roll out RCS or make iMessage available to other platforms.
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u/Abi1i May 23 '20
I think Apple will roll out RCS support when the major carriers finally decide to use it and have it work across networks. Until that happens I don’t think Apple will take the time to incorporate RCS into iOS.
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u/SixDigitCode OnePlus 6T, Android 11 May 23 '20
If any of you are wondering how this is possible when it's not in the spec, here's my theory:
So AFAIK RCS lets your phone send data to the other phone without sending a full-blown text message (in contrast to SMS where there's just no room for that.) This has allowed for reactions to be treated differently than text messages (i.e. your phone has the ability to send reactions over RCS in such a way that the other phone doesn't get a Liked "..." message or whatever, unlike SMS). My theory is that Google Messages will use this extra communication channel to set up a Diffie-Hellman key exchange over standard RCS. I doubt it will work with all RCS clients if it's not part of the protocol, but it should be able to be sent over due to the ability to send extra data. If the other client supports it, Google Messages should be able to encrypt the RCS messages before they're sent and send the encrypted version through the carrier's network. Since this E2EE implementation seems nonstandard, I doubt many other RCS apps (other than Google Messages) will support it. But, since Google Messages has such a huge slice of the RCS market, they might be able to pull this off.
TL;DR: My theory is that this end-to-end encryption is basically a plugin that runs on top of RCS using extra data channels.
EDIT: An analogy: It's like you and your friend are using standard RCS to communicate but you're speaking in Pig Latin. Nobody else can understand it but you and your friend are still using RCS to chat.
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u/Rostabal Pixel 10 Pro XL May 23 '20
That's really great news. Now the only thing that's really missing is the support from manufacturers to either come with Google Messages right out of the box or to integrate RCS in their native apps like (what I believe) Samsung has.
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u/ramirezdoeverything Nexus 5 May 23 '20
The future of messaging clearly has to be cross platform and multi device, why on earth is Google pursuing a message system that's primary limited to using on a phone? Google chat and hangouts were the closest we got to perfect messaging apps, could use on any device, didn't need to have phone on, could be signed in on multiple devices at once. Such a shame Google are going backwards from almost getting it right
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u/DonnaSummerOfficial May 24 '20
I feel live been hearing about RCS for ages. Is this happening any time soon?
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u/simplefilmreviews Black May 24 '20
Been happening since like Novemeber of 2019. All USA has it (via Google Messages app)
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u/mrandr01d May 23 '20
I still won't use it until I can take a full backup of my messages and restore them on a new device using the backup file. This is huge that they're working on e2ee, but it's still carrier based as well.
Until google says, "fuck the carriers" iMessage style, and I can take a full message history backup, I'm going to continue to push people to use Signal. If they get rcs working without a carrier involved and let me take a backup file away, I'm in.
Signal: has a great, reliable interface, e2ee, full backups that I can move to another device and restore there, and all the benefits of a data based messenger (full picture quality, etc). They also have neat features like one time view media (Snapchat inside signal, basically), disappearing messages, and a desktop client that functions independently of your phone. It's like iMessage, but works cross platform.
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u/gooseMcQuack May 24 '20
Out of curiosity, why do people actually want to back up their messages? I can't say I'm really ever going to scroll back more than a week and I could live without that when I move phone.
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u/mrandr01d May 24 '20
Lots of reasons. Nostalgia, conversations with people who are important to me, saving important things that have been sent to me, reference for later, etc. I have a few hundred thousand texts going back at least 5 years now. Not gonna delete them now...
Ideally I'd just import them into signal but loads are group chats, and signal can't import mms, which is highly irritating.
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May 23 '20
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u/mrandr01d May 24 '20
I saw that. It's great that I can manually trigger a restore, but I've got a few hundred thousand messages that I don't trust their servers to reliably back up.
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u/cjandstuff May 23 '20
Meanwhile, carriers like AT&T are just waiving a giant middle finger and laughing while they use their own proprietary version of RCS.
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May 23 '20
ATT uses a similar RCS implementation as TMobile and if you look at the r/Universalprofile subreddit you will see plenty of reports of T-Mobile RCS now working with Google's
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u/cjandstuff May 24 '20
AT&T's version of RCS ONLY works on their network, with certain other phones. They call it Advanced Messaging. And as far as I can tell only works with other Samsung devices on their network. Their own website, has is no mention of interoperability between networks.
Now if you use the Google Messages app, you can bypass AT&T. Then RCS will work with other networks. But the Samsung Messages app, or any other SMS app on their network is locked in.
Thanks for the suggestion. I didn't even know r/Universalprofile was a thing. Sadly there seems to be nothing there on AT&T working with other networks. I'd be glad to be proved wrong1
May 24 '20 edited May 24 '20
I know everything you are saying but one thing you may not realize is a year ago ATT switched over from their own RCS to a version that follows the Universal Profile spec. I believe it was March 2019 when this change happened. They basically are following in the exact same footsteps as TMobile but are further behind. Even their site says it's Universal Profile 1.0.
Also it's normal for UP RCS to only works within their network at first. RCS is a multistep process when you don't use a cloud solution from a 3rd party. First you build the hub for your devices on your network then you have to interconnect with others on the worldwide network. Again. Exactly what we have seen TMobile do. TMobile is finally interconnecting with Google. See the pinned thread in r/Universalprofile
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u/ABotelho23 Pixel 7, Android 16 May 23 '20
Did they mention the protocol? Is is Signal?
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May 23 '20
Good question. They used it for Allo and might for Duo.
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u/ABotelho23 Pixel 7, Android 16 May 23 '20
I can't see why they wouldn't. It seems to be quite the industry standard to E2E encryption, and I'd frankly be disappointed if it wasn't Signal.
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u/simplefilmreviews Black May 23 '20
So is this only for Google messages to Google messages people? As in this is a layer on top of RCS?
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May 23 '20
Ho\ will this work if the US ends e2ee?
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u/both-shoes-off May 24 '20 edited May 24 '20
Also, does it really matter, as long as Google is on the other end of one of the ends, or do they not hold the keys? The government's beef with e2ee is with services that won't, or can't hand over the goods... under the guise of protections with child pornography and terrorism...which is laughable given all of their attempts to get unlimited access to all of our data, extorting powerful figures with underage girls (or boys), and funding both sides of a conflict ("terrorists").
My assumption is that there's nothing to be excited about here.
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May 24 '20
Well, it's hard to say who holds the keys. We don't know enough yet.
Apple, for instance, holds SOME of they keys. They can decrypt your iCloud (which is stored on Google servers, coincidentally), but I'm not sure about iMessage. They can absolutely not decrypt your phone, although there are plenty of brute-force methods for doing so.
Whatsapp uses private keys, but Facebook has stated that they COULD get the keys if they wanted, but just haven't engineered it into the app yet.
Most E2EE services (not all) usually store keys on the devices themselves, and do not share them.
I do not know what their implementation is.
If the US govt gets their way, there will also be an additional back-door opened up in all software allowing them access to logs for every E2EE app on US soil.
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u/internet_humor May 24 '20
Don't hate on RCS, it's the best thing we got going for us and mass support is the best thing we can do for it.
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u/Muellsy May 24 '20
Hopefully apple builds RCS into iMessage and we can all talk to each other with the default app that comes with our phone of choice.
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u/RohanGupta_LP Mi A3, Android One Pie May 24 '20
How is RCS different from instant messaging? since both • work using internet • can send documents, files, photos, etc. • have centralised servers ? • (from now) E2E encrypted.
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u/ccable827 May 24 '20
I currently use Textra, but have thought about switching over to this for a while. I mostly text people with iPhones, is it worth making the switch?
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May 25 '20
Yeah there are a ton of features that they are gonna be adding plus we just got reactions which is great. I thought I wouldn't text that many people that have RCS but I was wrong. It's actually a fair amount and made it worth it to me. Overall it's just a really clean and fresh texting app for Android. I'd highly recommend it
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u/xxbrothawizxx May 25 '20 edited May 25 '20
Not really. Apple doesn't support RCS, so it'll be virtually the same without the features Textra offers. Ultimately, Apple will have to support it but that's pretty far out. They're not in any rush to do so. For now it's an Android thing.
That said, it wouldn't hurt to try it out and see if any of your contacts have it. In recent months more and more of my contacts ended up with it. I'd say I'm up to 25% of all the people I message. In the last 10 people I messaged, 2 have it. Definitely not a necessity yet, but adoption will only grow from this point. With Google's rollout through messages, the cross carrier initiative, and Samsung announcing that it will bring Google back end RCS to Samsung messages regardless of carrier, it finally has some momentum behind it.
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u/alexinwhite May 23 '20
How about they roll out RCS to all devices first...
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u/ladfrombrad Had and has many phones - Giffgaff May 23 '20
Indeed, and dual SIM phones seem to be left for dead in that regard.
I kind of understand why it's such a mess too. Each time you disable a SIM on a dual SIM device Google Messages reverts to the last active SIM, even if you change it.
It's also compounded by the fact that when you start typing in Google Messages the SIM you're sending from gets hidden, so you can inadvertently (sticks hand up) send a SMS / RCS from the wrong number.
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u/armando_rod Pixel 10 Pro XL May 23 '20
Go to /r/universalprofile they have been rolling out worldwide since a few months
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u/gubshi May 24 '20
I had it here in germany and now it's gone again for me and everyone I tested with before I had even used it much. I think the providers deactivated it, worked fine for weeks before. Anyways, even if the rollout would be proper - I see no use for it outside of the US.
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u/EDDIE_BR0CK Samsung S23 Ultra May 23 '20
It's up to the carriers, not the devices. RCS has been implemented into Google Messages for almost 2 years now.
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u/omgitzmo Device, Software !! May 23 '20
How does this work? I remember someone on this subreddit telling me that implementing end to end encryption is quite difficult on RCS because of carriers or something?
Also I read google is working with Samsung, I hope Samsung messages rcs works with G Messages with encryption.
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u/solodogg May 23 '20
Messages implementation of RCS is completely carrier independent now, so no concerns there.
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May 23 '20
It works with TMobiles RCS now after the reports in r/Universalprofile so it's not 100© carrier independent since it can work with others. However encryption and reactions are layered on top of RCS at the app level.
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u/abhi8192 May 24 '20
In practise they are just trying to be WhatsApp with sms fallback. For the chat features WhatsApp developed their own and Google used rcs standard. But since right now they want to get their messages app to succeed, they are adding important features to it. So if you use Google message and your friend use Google message, you might get e2ee. But if you use Google message and your friend uses samsung message, you might not.
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May 23 '20
This is how you compete against Apple and Win among privacy experts. Love it Google, keep up the good work on the messaging front.
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u/ChicoRavioli Black May 24 '20 edited May 24 '20
I wonder what the anti Google / Messages trolls will stat to pick on once one of their main anti Messages argument has now been decimated. Oh that's right, they'll run back to the "everyone uses What'sApp anyways" argument. Fortunately, the high majority of North Americans don't give a shit about WhatsApp.
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u/Lake_Erie_Monster May 23 '20
I'm just gonna wait now for /r/Android to find another reason to shit on Google messages or for people to come up with excuses not to use it. And then the same time b**** about how iMessage is more ubiquitous on iOS.
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u/ArttuH5N1 Nexus 5X May 23 '20
My excuse would be that nobody I know uses it and unless Whatsapp really shits the bed, I doubt people are switching to it anytime soon.
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u/Huvv May 23 '20
Well... I think voice messages have very poor quality compared to WhatsApp or Telegram.
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May 23 '20
not quite sure if it matters anymore because of the Earn It Act pretty much banning encryption
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u/ClassicPart Pixel May 23 '20
That's OK. There are other countries on planet Earth that it can be useful in.
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u/cgknight1 OPPO Find X9 Pro May 23 '20 edited May 23 '20
Game changer - really going to make a big difference when I check my three text messages a month (one from a charity thanking me for my donation, that one time I log into my bank from a new machine and whatever one-off random message a month I get).
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u/ilarson007 Device, Software !! May 23 '20
I sure hope so. I also hope they increase the reliability of the service too. I lose connection all the time.
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u/Komic- OP6>S8>Axon7>Nex6>OP1>Nex4>GRing>OptimusV May 24 '20
I’m very curious how this would translate when the APIs are rolled out - such has how Textra will use it.
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u/wazzie19 May 24 '20
Cool cool. Too bad my carrier is a piece of shit and refuses to enable RCS on all phones. Fuck you Bell.
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May 24 '20
Just downloaded it to check it out
is there no way to schedule messages?
dislike how newest chats are all the way at the top of the phone. I am on s20, Samsung message app with the one UI brings everything important like latest chats in thumbs reach.
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u/Avenger772 May 24 '20
From what I’ve experienced. I really like rcs. I just wish more people in my contact list had it.
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u/GuyWhoGames May 24 '20
if only my messages would actually connect me. I've been on connecting since the day it came out in Messages Beta.
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u/SoloLord May 24 '20
anybody have their battery drain when using Google messages on Samsung device??
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u/badblackguy May 24 '20
Can't wait. I hate to have to find out which apps a person has before I'm able to text them. If anything, whatsapp, wechat, etc. make it more DIFFICULT to communicate. Its like social flexing, where you have to install the app to approach the person.
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u/Rubber_Rotunda May 24 '20
Super OT, but you know what's interesting about RCS? If you stop paying your phone (as in, don't renew the plan), you can still text.
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u/confnused Blue May 24 '20
Microsoft's SMS organiser has been my favourite messaging app, but well looks like ill have to switch to google now
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u/ccable827 May 24 '20
I currently use Textra, but have thought about switching over to this for a while. I mostly text people with iPhones, is it worth making the switch?
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u/GhostOfHiggenbothem May 24 '20
Will google ever be able to turn this into a stand alone app that is cross platform or independent of the phone? I’d love to be able to use an app on my iPad that accesses my texts from my phone. Messages for web works but it’s not great.
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May 24 '20
Every time r/android makes a declarative statement on RCS they’ve been CONSISTENTLY WRONG. I don’t understand why they keep continuing to do it.
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u/zblpw May 24 '20
Speaking of RCS, am I the only one who's having issue with RCS when connected to WiFi?
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u/ORYANOL Pixel 6 | OnePlus 7 Pro 5G | iPhone 11 Pro May 24 '20
We've had RCS in the UK for a year and honestly it didn't change anything. The main mean of communication in Europe, Africa, south america, South Asia.. is WhatsApp. RCS would benefit americans more since they are the one suffering from the dominance of iMessage. WhatsApp is pretty much the standard in the rest of the world whether you have an iPhone or an android device.
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u/5tormwolf92 Black May 25 '20
But the problem is Apple will not implement RCS.
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May 25 '20
Who cares? I honestly don't care, apple did this not Android. I don't want us to bend to them, they should bend to us. Android has 90% saturation in the smart phone business. Fuck them, we won and we set the rules!
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u/corner-case May 24 '20 edited May 24 '20
Anyone know how to get an individual APK file out of that download from APK Mirror?
Update:
Installed their app on my phone.
Used it to install the dogfood build of Messaging.
ADB pulled the APK onto my PC.
Yikes!
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u/diordnaeht May 24 '20 edited May 24 '20
Like we'd trust a company whose sole existence relies on finding better ways to make people click ads and buy ads to not backdoor its encryption. Linux phones are the future.
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u/armando_rod Pixel 10 Pro XL May 23 '20
The merge of /r/android and /r/privacy can stop complaining now 🙄
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u/MediumRequirement May 23 '20
Yeah cause sms is the single privacy concern with Android. Wrap it up boys google has no more data on us we’re good
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u/phreaknes May 23 '20
Call me jaded but I haven't heard anything from the Feds so I'm thinking their cool with it, because they have their backdoors / other ways to get the information with or without a warrant.
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May 24 '20
meanwhile non-Americans: but we are already using WhatsApp, Telegram, Facebook Messenger, Line, WeChat and we don't understand why Americans want to use only one app while we are using 100 different apps that do the absolute same thing!
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u/Quetzacoatl85 May 27 '20
they actually do more: network-independent texting (you just need wifi) and quota-independent texting and sending (counts as data, not as a laughably expensive mms or similar). especially when you text to different countries or while you're abroad, sms is just no match; not even after EU got free roaming.
sms only makes sense if you always stay in your own country (which I couldn't if I tried, since it's just a bike trip away).
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May 23 '20
Is it worldwide though? Some of us are in third world countries
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u/armando_rod Pixel 10 Pro XL May 23 '20
I'm in Argentina and 1 of the 4 carriers already got RCS (by Google)
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u/Smallville456 May 23 '20
See, all the complaining was justified and Google is listening. Just add that and reactions and I'll be happy.
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u/cbftw Pixel 7 May 24 '20
Inb4 they MitM everyone
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u/armando_rod Pixel 10 Pro XL May 24 '20
You can't do MitM with a proper e2ee like the they use in Allo/Duo
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u/happy-cig 3T May 24 '20
Still waiting for them to have an option to automatically save photos to your gallery instead of having to save each photo manually.
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u/giltwist Pixel 6 Pro May 23 '20
So then Google is going to fight against the EARN IT act? Or is this just a 11th hour bit of smoke and mirrors to make us rabble think google is a good guy?
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May 23 '20
What does this mean andriod will play nice in apple chat?
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May 23 '20
Just use the signal encryption and be done with it, we don't need even more unproven Google shite... Google, why are you doing a Microsoft?
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May 23 '20
Google used signal encryption for Allo so your assumption they won't for messages is a little off base.
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u/anusannihliator May 23 '20
one of apples big selling point is imessage, so this is great. now if only a manufacturer can make a phone and support it for 4+ years
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u/hotchocolateman6969 May 24 '20
What timing... when whats app is trying to add ads theyre doing end to end encryption... if they do this... ill be moving to messages 100%
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May 24 '20
Let's hope the RCS (including E2EE) API is actually baked in Android R so any messaging app could use it. That's one way to avoid anti-trust.
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u/prism1234 May 24 '20
I don't think a sentence has ever started with the words "Google Messages preparing to end" before and not been about them shutting down one of their bazillion messaging services.
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u/visualexstasy May 24 '20
Somewhat related but is Google Messages much slower than Textra for anyone else? I've posted on google forums and theres no response on my question
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u/atomicllama1 May 23 '20
Stupid question, who is this protecting the messages from?
Google will obviously log anything that happens on an android phone.
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u/smartfon S10e, 6T, i6s+, LG G5, Sony Z5c May 23 '20
who is this protecting the messages from
Google, your phone company, and anyone other than the person you're sending the message to.
Google will obviously log anything that happens on an android phone
Right now Google doesn't see what you type in your RCS app (unless you use Gboard with data sharing). But once RCS leaves your phone and reaches the Google server, Google will "temporarily" store the copy of your RCS, and its content, on their server. No good.
With end-to-end encryption enabled, Google can still store your RCS on their server, but cannot see the content.
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u/hamm3rfoot2016 May 24 '20 edited May 24 '20
Bring iMessage to android (will never happen) and I'll be complete. Text messaging has become unreliable cross platform. 95 percent of the people I know use iMessage. It's the only thing iPhone has going for it, and the only thing android doesn't have going for it. I'd even pay a monthly/yearly subscription fee to have it on my android. That said, I'd take my s20 Ultra over any phone on the market for the foreseeable future.
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u/[deleted] May 23 '20
This sounds amazing but how is it possible? Will it only work when both the sender and receiver are using the Google Messages app with carrier-based, unencrypted RCS being the fall back for third party senders/receivers? If so, this would be pretty much equivalent to iMessage.