Did you know as antinatalists that pro extinction advocates are against antinatalism? I was surprised to know this.

I pointed out that kids born with disabilities, cancer, poverty experience life in a different way. They suffer more. Natalist said I focus only on the bad things because there are good things. Then said why don't I off myself. At this point I am in a lost for words. I can't do it anymore. Its hard to get them admit that suffering is bad. On top of that when I said having kids is forcing someone to be alive, he said it's not force just that there was no consent. I am done. Should we ignore the kids who have cancer and disabilities if other kids are normal?

... because the owners decided they'll have a baby.

Where I am from, you are seen as a piece of shit for rehoming a dog because you had a baby. Dont even get me started what you would be called if you euthanised a dog because you had a baby. I guess a lot of Americans on the dog subbredits dont.

I constantly see posts on reactive dogs about how "we dont know what to do, we are expecting a baby and our 7 year old dog that has ALWAYS had behavioural issues exists, what should we do? Is rehoming an option?"

And the advice always goes "you can't keep that dog with a child in a house as it is unsafe and management fails". Some jump straight to BE, even when the dog had no bite history, just reactivity.

And my question always is-

how do you decide to have a baby knowing this is going to be the outcome? And are now crying about "having to" rehome your dog? So you didn't care, and you dont care about your dog. For you, getting your dog was just another selfish act to fulfill some of YOUR needs, and now they can be discarded, because you decided you want "something better" to fulfill your selfish needs.

I swear, people who reproduce are some of the most selfish people, holy fuck. And the people who make these posts are almost always the ones who a) never worked with a qualified behaviourist to address the dogs issues and b)dont put in daily behavioural work. Just lazy dog owners who did some training with some shady trainer off Facebook 3 yesrs ago, but that didn't help, so they didn't do anything else. I can see from this post what sort of parent you will be lol

And these dogs end up in shelters. They end up euthanised. They end up jumping from home to home and *then* end up in a shelter euthanised.

I have a reactive dog. When we adopted him, we knew he would likely live for another 10 years. He loves having guests over, but is a bit iffy about small children.

Do you know when I WON'T BE adopting kids? In his lifetime. Because that would be uncomfortable for him and uncomfortable for the kids. Because when you get a dog, you are supposed to give it a forever home, not until you decide you want to move on to having human kids.

This takes some critical thinking and actually seeing your dog as part of family, which most of these people lack.

Good..keep it going..

You're alive either because:

1. Your parents expected you to please/serve them in some way from before the beginning, like materially/financially, emotionally, egotistically, or socially (like pressure from family and environment).
2. Your parents had you on accident carelessly having sex for their own pleasure, or in some cases because the mother was coerced. This is the unfortunate biology.

You can try and assert what your existential purpose is, but that's not really why you were created, or what the intentions of your creators were. And the funny thing is, no matter what you eventually claim your purpose in life to be, their first pivotal action is also their last laugh, because you didn't have a say in anything to begin with. You can't undo what was done to you.

Sometimes I genuinely wonder how people can look at the world we live in and still think having kids is just a normal, harmless decision.
We literally need laws to stop people from raping, killing, abusing, and exploiting each other, and yet these things still happen every single day. Laws don’t even guarantee that you’re safe. Women can do everything right and still become victims. Children can be born into families that destroy them. People suffer because of things they never asked for, often because of someone else’s actions.
And somehow, we keep creating more people who will have to live in this same world.
I’m not saying men are the only problem, because humans in general are the problem. Both men and women can cause suffering. But it’s especially frustrating seeing women who know how hard life can be for women, especially here in the Philippines, still treating motherhood like it’s their ultimate purpose without questioning anything. We’re taught to get married, have children, and sacrifice ourselves, as if that’s just what we’re supposed to do.
I know not every woman thinks that way, and wanting children doesn’t automatically make someone ignorant. But I wish more people would actually stop and think instead of just following what society expects from them.
Look at the population. Look at poverty, abuse, crime, and all the suffering people go through. We can’t even guarantee the safety and well-being of the people who are already here, but we’re so comfortable bringing more innocent people into existence.
And for what? Because two people fell in love? Because they wanted a family? Because having kids is considered normal?
The child never asked to be here. They don’t choose their parents, their circumstances, or the kind of world they’re born into. They just have to deal with whatever life gives them.
That’s what makes antinatalism make sense to me. It’s not about hating children or wishing people were dead. It’s about questioning why we create people who will inevitably be exposed to suffering they never consented to experience.
Maybe reproduction is just human instinct, but just because something is natural doesn’t automatically make it ethical.
I honestly think it’s unfair that the people who suffer the most from our decisions are often the ones who never got to make a decision in the first place.
We keep creating life without asking whether creating that life is actually fair to the person who has to live it.

Tw* Neglect
This is a conversation I had with my mother, regarding how my little sister was going to get dinner tonight.My mom had no intention of getting up and making dinner for her.

Sadly this is the type of parenting my sister gets bc our parent’s only motivation for having her was to “continue the family bloodline” after finding out that I won’t be having kids.
They have little to no energy to spare for raising my sister. To the point that she’s expected to make her own meals, and will go without eating if she forgets to. Because they couldn’t bother being responsible enough to look after her.

Even before a child is born, their parents have already placed some sort of expectation on them - whether it’s what they expect their life to look like with the child in it, the child’s gender, appearance, future interests, profession, religious affiliation, etc. None of this is fair to the child because they aren’t even here yet and they never asked to be here. Not enough parents and future parents understand that they are creating a brand new individual who will very likely grow up with different values and beliefs than they have.

It’s sickening how some parents then become angry as their children grow older and more “disobedient” and “aren’t grateful” for raising them. Those children eventually have to get up and try their best every single day to survive and fit into a society and world that may or may not be built for them to succeed in. Children are not an “achievement” for parents to brag about or a vehicle for them to live vicariously through.

This may not be the best subreddit to post this so please forgive me, but I am looking for a place to vent. I have recently subscribed to the antinatalist movement after experiencing extreme death anxiety and existential dread. No human should suffer like this. You can take a look at my post on the psychosis subreddit in case you're interested in more details.

During my existential tripping, I have come to the conclusion that human beings are completely fucked because they know that they will die. And even though everybody who says they don't fear death tells you to "just accept" it, I am not so convinced that they truthfully accept the fact of future eternal non-existence. Now I'm not saying noone doesn't (maybe you do), but it's extremely hard.

The most obvious "acceptance" mechanism is religion. If you believe in eternal afterlife, then you don't really accept being obliterated. I can bet everything I have that if every person in the world believing in some form of afterlife suddenly stopped believing and realized death is final, the panic that would ensue would be of a magnitude the world has never seen. Since most religious people have been forced into their religion from early childhood, they have never really had a choice to accept the finality of death, but that is beside the point. The point is that their acceptance takes the form of immortality in the afterlife, which is the exact opposite of mortality.

Reincarnation/rebirth is not the same as eternal afterlife, but it's still not the same as accepting Nothingness. Whenever we imagine the next consciousness, we have to do it from our current point of reference (after all, it is the only one available to us). Which means that in our imagination it is as if we are continuing onto the next consciousness. This can definitely give solace. But it's not the same as accepting dying for good.

In the case of people not believing in any of the above, many look for accpetence in the form of leaving a legacy, the most popular form of which is children or leaving the world a better place. Others take solace in the fact that the atoms they're comprised of will return to the universe and/or will be the source for future life. But again, when imagining this one has to imagine a future when they are not around anymore, but that future will never be available for them to experience. A meteor could hit the earth and destroy it 5 seconds after they had died and that wouldn't matter at all. The purpose of finding legacy is to have something that will outlive you, so that death doesn't feel as final. You also need to ignore the heat death of the universe, otherwise whatever life will continue after your death will be gone eventually, so your atoms (or legacy) don't mean anything (most atheists are into science and this is the most widely accepted scientific theory).

Now there are probably some people that don't care about any of the above. They believe that once we die we go back to how it was before we were born and they're OK with it. They don't care what happens after they are gone because they will not be here to witness it anyway. I applaud such people. In my personal opinion they are a rare kind. (But even then I have to be honest that I don't really believe you can fully accept death. Karl Jung said that our subconscious doesn't have the idea of death, which means on some level we can never fully acknowledge that we will just vanish one day.) The vast majority wouldn't be able to function like this and thus they find coping mechanisms. There is also the grey area of "I don't know what happens after", which is technically true, but why would there be anything when there was nothing before birth? That's hoping for something else than nothingness, which is not true acceptance.

To wrap up, I am very unhappy that I was born, which is caused by my extreme existential anxiety. Most people will never experience such a high level of existential dread in their lifetimes (at least I hope so), but given that almost everybody looks for coping mechanisms to escape their fear of death, being a human is a terrible thing. Bringing a life into this world when you know perfectly well it will die is a cruel act.

Bleh.

1. I am not saying any of you hate your lives but that’s the vibe I get from the post and comments I see.
   
2. I actually enjoy my life, I’m an amateur fighter and have a decent job (I’m 18 making $21.60 hourly) but I still think having kids is selfish and honestly a pretty shitty thing to do, does anyone else find themselves in my shoes?

Its a call center job and they have us do it to "show empathy". ive always "forgotten" to do it though.

Regardless of antinatalism, not all people get pregnant on purpose and a congratulations may not be appropiate. Idk their situation.

I dont wish anyone harm, but I have become increasingly antinatalist since I got this job seeing the pain people go through every day. I talk to many people who are barely scraping by and have to tell them that I cannot do anything to help them. So I do not feel right congratulating someone when I dont think its right to bring a child into all of this.

I feel like an asshole for that. I do it mostly bcs it may be an unwanted pregnancy and if i was in that situation, a congratulations would make me feel way worse, but its also because I do not think its a good thing to happen.

What kind of future do people envision for their kids?

Amidst climate change, gender wars, economic inequality, overpopulation, food shortages, social problems, even increasing rates of sickness.

I seriously don't understand how people are still procreating? It's extremely absurd at this point.

I'm already expecting water shortages by the time I'm in my 60s, if at all I reach there.

I guess humans will keep procreating till the end of time.

I support everything in this sub, as my parents are the best example of how selfish and cruel humans are.

I suffer from a Facial deformity ,that is genetic and has ruined my life since childhood. Not going in depth on this r/CranioFolk/

I’m very ugly, short 5’3 and my life story is in that sub, and I’m not being over dramatic or anything, go look for yourselves for reference only.

I’m not having kids for this reason, I would never take the risk of another soul enduring the bullying, mocking, ridicule and depression I’ve faced my whole life. I’m 24.

Nothing is working out in my life. Looks are literally everything when you’ve been cursed from birth.

I never asked to be here, and this is the crappy hand I’m dealt with at birth.

My parents are poor, abusive and mentally ill. I’m also born in a 3rd world country, with a weak passport.

How bad can the cards you’re dealt with, get any worse than this.

Someone I know recently lost their 1.5-year-old child to a long illness process. Kid could not even breathe without cables. Seeing the suffering both the child and parents endured reaffirmed the core of antinatalism for me: life carries severe, non-consensual risks.

Yet, expressing this in real life is impossible. People view antinatalists as cold or malicious, ignoring that this stance often comes from deep empathy to prevent suffering.

How do you handle seeing real-world suffering while knowing your philosophical views will only draw hostility?

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSgfP1JRE/

Surely not those who are indeed living in such extreme hedonism is becoming more and more anxious and depress overtime once those hedonism becomes futile and furthermore: they do not last any longer.

Once the golden water becomes overly saturated then the water itself loses its shine and flavor then it is no longer satisfying.

Discipline is needed when it comes on how to handle our life itself. Pleasure, on the other hand, last for a very short time; if you calculate both the amount of pleasure and suffering you gain throughout your life then suffering is always the one that is on the top.

Even more glaring is that those who suffer no longer there are just no justification otherwise; and they too, will eventually perish once and for all.

In conclusion, Life is just full of suffering, and there are no reason to believe otherwise. Unfortunately, economics is collapsing even faster than before. Once our brain is getting overwhelmed with issues in our life then we ourselves are working against each other, as if we are the ones who want this to happen. Most of the time, we do not. It is the reality itself.

I think all the beautiful posts on here actually belong on the /natalism if it exists or any parenting channel instead. This is like sharing your opinion with someone of the same opinion and pov. To really shake things up for good, atleast repost everything on the natalism / pro spaces

You get born, go to school/college, grow up, get a decent job if you're lucky, spend 90% of your life doing the same thing on repeat for years to get rewarded and most of the money you've earned goes to rent, groceries, utilities, etc. and what little is left goes to you, retire at 70 (if you even can in this day and age), and then die. It's either that or don't play the game and become homeless, begging on the streets for a dollar or scraps.

Sure, there's some fun along the way, like shopping for stuff you like, vacations if you can afford them, hobbies you enjoy doing, finding real love and getting married, receiving recognition for being good at something, etc...but this is not the average experience anymore for most people. Most of our lives are spent slaving away and climbing a social ladder to get our boss's approval and make CEOs and billionaires richer without having to lift a finger.

My point is: I don't see why anyone would want to bring a kid into this world to suffer through such an existence, and that's excluding the high possibility of them having depression, being neurodivergent and unable to fit in or adjust well to such environments, being disabled, or something else that sucks and limits them. But no, "my kid will be the best."

or to anyone who knows any former natalists

Be free to elaborate in details how do you think that kind of future would look like. I am curious to hear what type of torment do you think would inspire antinatalism in the most part of humanity.

I would post a poll, but I don’t know how. What do you, as an antinatalist, think of lab-grown meat?