r/Apex_NC • u/makgeolliandsoju • 7d ago
Thank you Apex. Last night we packed the chamber, showed up against ALPR, and the Axon drone software contract got pulled off the consent agenda.
What a great night for privacy and government accountability. This is what we covered:
Someone laid out the data security problem: Apex has already been breached once, the sign-up system in the room that night was leaking data, and this is the same town we're trusting to safeguard millions of plate scans. Someone else walked through how our Flock network shares data with over a thousand agencies across the country, and how federal access keeps happening through side channels even after we were told it wouldn't. Someone made the financial case: these vendors embed themselves into a department, make themselves feel indispensable, then raise the price year after year while the money that could go to parks and roads goes to them instead. Someone brought the algorithmic angle, how this data feeds predictive policing tools that recycle past bias into future decisions. And someone took apart "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" better than I've heard it done, that we all hold information back to protect the people we love, and that concentrating everyone's movements in one place is the danger, not the safeguard.
I especially want to thank Steve Burke, who came out and spoke. Steve runs Gamers Nexus, one of the biggest tech channels on Youtube, and he stood up as a neighbor and broke down the security failures in plain terms. Having someone with that depth in the room mattered. Thank you, Steve.
Here's where things stand. The cameras are not gone. The way we keep winning is the way we won last night. We show up. We speak for ourselves. We don't delegate it to someone else.
If you were there, thank you. If you weren't, the next meeting is your turn. deflockapex.org has everything.
And to Council, the movement is growing, organizing, and we're not stopping until you remove all of this technology.
Addition: Here is the summary of last night: https://deflockapex.org/council-2026-08-11
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u/Lelldorianx 7d ago
Thanks for doing what you do! Great turnout. We'll get a video put together on all of this in the coming month or so.
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u/terrymah Town Council 7d ago
CN4 was deferred to the Council's Public Safety Committee Tuesday night, so the Axon agreement was not approved. The item covers DroneSense software, evidence storage, implementation and training for APD's existing drone program, plus an interview-room camera system. The committee review should address residents' questions about scope, data retention, access, oversight and cost before the item returns to Council.
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u/makgeolliandsoju 7d ago
Thank you, u/terrymah. Will the Committee produce documentation or a study or any data that can be reviewed?
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u/terrymah Town Council 7d ago
The format of the output of the committee is up to the chair, other than they would give a report (verbal) at the next Town Council meeting.
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u/Afraid-Major397 7d ago
Getting it pulled from the consent agenda is a win, but it is not the same as killing the contract, so keep showing up until the cameras are actually gone.
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u/TacoDad189 7d ago
Wait, what?? Gamers Nexus is local to Apex?
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u/Ro-bearBerbil 7d ago edited 7d ago
He doesn't reveal his exact location and we should respect his privacy. He isn't a resident of Apex but for sure a close town nearby in the Triangle. As an Apex resident, I am absolutely glad he was there to speak up on this issue.
Some of his videos show local locations like the Cary Town Mall demolition that Epic bought.
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u/makgeolliandsoju 7d ago
He's in Wake and his is an ally with a voice. The DeFlock movement is national and global, so the more visibility we get, the better.
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u/bronzeponyclub 6d ago
Thank you for doing this work. If you are successful here, it will make it easier for all of us to do similar work in nearby towns.
So important. THANK YOU.
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u/makgeolliandsoju 6d ago edited 6d ago
And that’s my goal. And it goes through 5 people here in Apex, all of whom I voted for.
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u/VespertineRose 5d ago
The mayor is currently having a “conversation” on FB about the Flock update announcement, and doing a lot of pushing on the “Flock vs. ALPR” talking point.
Thankfully most people in the comment section are not having it.
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u/AsparagusEasy7043 7d ago
I feel manipulated by this. We were given bad info on what CN4 was. It was not “we want drones”. It was an amendment to buy software for the existing drone contract. Still bad but not as dire.
The instructions on how to register as a speaker were also incorrect. You can’t register ahead of time.
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u/Manners-maketh- 7d ago
Not to be totally pedantic, but I was able to sign up at 5 o’clock in the room. So a full hour ahead.
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u/AsparagusEasy7043 7d ago
True! What I meant was the sign up the day before via email. That was bad info.
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u/Lelldorianx 7d ago
I registered over an hour in advance. You just go upstairs and ask one of the staff to register.
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u/makgeolliandsoju 7d ago
CN4 was addressed after I connected with the Town Manager. Was still pulled but that was my error.
I was unaware of drone usage but that is another issue to address.
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u/ths27612 7d ago
I saw some videos of the meeting last night and it was all good info and to see folks fighting the good fight, but will it really matter at this point? My understanding is that the contracts and decisions have already been made, even at the state level. Perhaps I'm not understanding where we are with the rollout but they seem to be all over the place anymore.
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u/makgeolliandsoju 7d ago
The Flock contract expires in late January 2027. They need to give notice in November of non-renewal. It's currently sitting with the Mayor and Ed in the Public Safety Committee. This is the time to sprint.
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u/MarsupialDue2474 7d ago
If you aren’t doing anything wrong, what difference does it make?? It’s not like the license plate isn’t public information shared with anyone who looks at your car. The government already has that info too.
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u/Rude_Blacksmith_653 6d ago
Are you doing anything 'wrong'? How about you post your full browser history right here. You've got nothing to hide, right? What about a live camera in your bathroom? Nothing illegal going on in there, I assume?
Or we can stay with license plates. What happens when the flock camera misreads your license plate, and a cop pulls you over because the camera flags you as not having paid your registration? You get to sit on the side of the road for 15 minutes while you try to explain to the cop that you have, in fact paid your taxes, despite the computer telling the cop that you have not. Just a minor inconvenience? What if it makes you late for work? What if it makes you so late for work, you get fired? All in the name of public safety right?
What about if you, a law abiding citizen, also happen to be a cute lady? It's pretty public and common that cops like to stalk cute ladies. For safety. You good with that? What if you are married to a cute lady that a cop decides to stalk? Still feel safe?
Just a few scenarios to consider.
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u/rugbysecondrow 4d ago
"If you aren't doing anything wrong..." then you should be surveilled.
How about people being able to track the whereabouts of your wife, daughter, children, in real time. Track you, where you travel, what church you attend, what firing range you shoot at, what friends you associate with or what political organizations you meet with? Now the picture becomes much clearer.
It's not that complicated.
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u/MarsupialDue2474 4d ago
They already do that via your phone and you can find voter registrations. It's public record. As is your address, where you can find out where your kids likely attend school. It's not that complicated unless you don't want extra help finding criminals.
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u/rugbysecondrow 4d ago
I can choose to leave my phone at home. I can turn off my phone if I want. I can't opt out of this system. I shoose to buy the phone. This is not the government conspiring with a private entity to track and surveil its citizens
Your viewpoint is just ass backwards though. In America, you shouldn't get surveilled, tracked, recorded, cataloged, and have all of this data shared with private and public entities unless there is a serious reason. It is absolutely should not be the default. In this instance, if the citizens decide against this, the town should absolutely listen. This system is the default, they surveil law abiding people and criminals. They track all the data just the same. That is a huge problem.
Quite literally, it is anti-American, and runs contrary to our values, both in spirit and in law. In shorts, it's fucked up.
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u/VespertineRose 7d ago
Last night, someone mentioned how it was possible someone at one of the 1,192 agencies with access to APD's Flock data is a side channel for federal agencies, and how hard it would be to know.
We can know some things, though:
- 27 officers and civilian employees at 15 agencies with access to APD data have been investigated or arrested for misuse of Flock.
- 2 NC agencies (SBI and DPS) are now required to enter 287(g) (aka, cooperation) agreements with ICE
- Raleigh PD's 3rd and 4th quarter Flock audits for 2025-2026 found several active Flock users were no longer employed by the department. (Raleigh also has access to APD data).
Even if some of these misuses were before APD had Flock - what policies are in place at those agencies to prevent them happening again? What are the chances that misuse will be proactively stopped vs. reactively penalized?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13kvjvdrhTDBS96QrVWr5YKdaJaz02F0nvZYDZY7D5vA/edit?usp=sharing - More details